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CrazyHorse
11-02-2014, 10:13 PM
How was that not a flag? Either hitting a defenseless receiver or leading with the helmet?

SR
11-02-2014, 10:27 PM
It was clean.

spikerman
11-02-2014, 10:27 PM
How was that not a flag? Either hitting a defenseless receiver or spearing.

It was neither. Spearing (a word which doesn't actually appear in the rule book) is leading with the crown of the helmet, which he obviously did not do. It's a common misconception that you can't hit defenseless receivers hard. That is simply not accurate. It's a foul if you hit them in the head or neck area, again which he obviously did not do. Just so you don't think I'm just defending the officials, they missed two blatant blocks in the back tonight that cost the Broncos big time.

Joel
11-02-2014, 10:39 PM
Sure looked like the crown to me, and if ya'll called spearing as often it SHOULD be called, we would't have had to add ANOTHER rule against leading with the crown of a helmet. What good does it to say, "leading with the crown of a helmet is a 15 yd penalty; it's also a 15 yd penalty to lead with the crown of a helmet"? Maybe if we ban it a THIRD time guys will stop doing it, even though refs STILL don't call it.

This one bothered me a lot even before all the "defenseless receiver" rules that turned into "defenseless player" rules because the NFL decided its decision to give passing an unfair edge was too obvious.

spikerman
11-02-2014, 10:42 PM
Sure looked like the crown to me, and if ya'll called spearing as often it SHOULD be called, we would't have had to add ANOTHER rule against leading with the crown of a helmet. What good does it to say, "leading with the crown of a helmet is a 15 yd penalty; it's also a 15 yd penalty to lead with the crown of a helmet"? Maybe if we ban it a THIRD time guys will stop doing it, even though refs STILL don't call it.

This one bothered me a lot even before all the "defenseless receiver" rules that turned into "defenseless player" rules because the NFL decided its decision to give passing an unfair edge was too obvious.
I don't think I understand your post. Leading with the crown of the helmet is a foul. That most definitely did not happen on this play. I really don't understand your other point.

CrazyHorse
11-02-2014, 10:48 PM
http://deadspin.com/wes-welkers-back-got-mushed-by-devin-mccourty-1653835554

If you watch the replay clip it looks like his helmet hits first.

Joel
11-02-2014, 10:54 PM
I don't think I understand your post. Leading with the crown of the helmet is a foul.
Yes, twice over: Once for the spear, and then a second time for hitting a player with the crown of the helmet (which apparently isn't a spear, because we needed a second ban for it.)


That most definitely did not happen on this play. I really don't understand your other point.
"Most definitely"? It's at least borderline if we define "the crown" to be exclusively a single infinitesimal point directly in the center of the helmets top, but if it's everything above the forehead, McCourty indisputable hit Welker with his crown, so hard it spun his head nearly 90°. If that's not a spear, then NOTHING is a... oh, NOW I get it; well, at least the game's "safer" on paper. ;)

spikerman
11-02-2014, 11:07 PM
Yes, twice over: Once for the spear, and then a second time for hitting a player with the crown of the helmet (which apparently isn't a spear, because we needed a second ban for it.)


"Most definitely"? It's at least borderline if we define "the crown" to be exclusively a single infinitesimal point directly in the center of the helmets top, but if it's everything above the forehead, McCourty indisputable hit Welker with his crown, so hard it spun his head nearly 90°. If that's not a spear, then NOTHING is a... oh, NOW I get it; well, at least the game's "safer" on paper. ;)

The crown of the helmet is the top of the helmet. This wasn't even close to a foul. As I said before leading with the crown is a foul. I'll post the ncaa rule tomorrow - the word "spear" does not appear in the rule book.

spikerman
11-02-2014, 11:12 PM
After watching that .gif it's obvious the defender turns his head and hits him with his shoulder and side of his helmet - legal hit.

WTE
11-02-2014, 11:17 PM
After watching that .gif it's obvious the defender turns his head and hits him with his shoulder and side of his helmet - legal hit.

If you can't do what McCourty did then you might as well ban tackling altogether. Give it a rest Joel.

SR
11-02-2014, 11:26 PM
If you can't do what McCourty did then you might as well ban tackling altogether. Give it a rest Joel.


It was a clean hit

Joel
11-03-2014, 12:18 AM
After watching that .gif it's obvious the defender turns his head and hits him with his shoulder and side of his helmet - legal hit.
Wasn't obvious at all: First contact was with part of helmet between the forehead and top-center ("the front of the crown" as it were.) The DEFENDER didn't "turn his head:" Welkers BACK did.

WTE
11-03-2014, 12:27 AM
Wasn't obvious at all: First contact was with part of helmet between the forehead and top-center ("the front of the crown" as it were.) The DEFENDER didn't "turn his head:" Welkers BACK did.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Tebowtime2011
11-03-2014, 12:44 AM
That was a legal hit. Joel do you know what the crown of the helmet is? You want to see leading with the crown of your helmet look at Trent Richardson when he trucked kurt Coleman a couple years ago. This was just a hard hit.

PatriotsGuy
11-03-2014, 09:29 AM
Sure looked like the crown to me, and if ya'll called spearing as often it SHOULD be called, we would't have had to add ANOTHER rule against leading with the crown of a helmet


You need glasses, or you need to be less disingenuous http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--8xZ2ePKV--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/adf5sf4ay6ojc1hwdszj.gif

OrangeHoof
11-03-2014, 10:20 AM
The hit looks okay to me but I've seen so many bullshit calls this year, I no longer can tell what is a "defenseless receiver" and what isn't. The rules have become way too arbitrary and it's ruining the game. All I know is I watched two NFL games yesterday and in both the officiating was horribly one-sided.

Slick
11-03-2014, 10:24 AM
Welker blew it. That ball landed right in his bread basket and the hit was clean.

LawDog
11-03-2014, 10:49 AM
Wasn't obvious at all: First contact was with part of helmet between the forehead and top-center ("the front of the crown" as it were.) The DEFENDER didn't "turn his head:" Welkers BACK did.

During the game I thought the defender had lead with the crown, but after watching replays - including the video imbedded in this thread - there is no way you can say first contact was between forehead and top of helmet. It was the side of the hat plain and simple. Also, Welker needs to retire.

silkamilkamonico
11-03-2014, 10:58 AM
He lead with the shoulder - are people even watching this same clip?

Clean hit from every angle possible. People here baby Welker way too much.

LRtagger
11-03-2014, 11:25 AM
Maybe Welker should catch the ball and then it wouldn't be an issue at all.

BroncoNut
11-03-2014, 11:42 AM
yeah, screw welker. if it was a spear he deserved it.

Northman
11-03-2014, 11:43 AM
http://deadspin.com/wes-welkers-back-got-mushed-by-devin-mccourty-1653835554

If you watch the replay clip it looks like his helmet hits first.

I think the shoulder and helmet hit at the same time. If that would of been flagged it would of been extremely ticky tack which i dont want in the game. The defender was not being malicious at all on that play and lead with his shoulder. I have no problem with that play.

Zweems56
11-03-2014, 12:13 PM
This thread is whack. Hit was perfectly clean. If welker catches that ball, he turns his body THE OTHER WAY, and gets hit in the ribs. Defender has no way to know that. That's EXACTLY where you want the defender to hit, and it's EXACTLY what the league is looking for. Not high, not low, just right. Welker catches that ball and not only is it not debatable AT ALL, but it's a completely different game. Manning didn't hang him out to dry, the defender didn't hit him illegally. None of that garbage.

Zweems56
11-03-2014, 12:13 PM
He lead with the shoulder - are people even watching this same clip?

Clean hit from every angle possible. People here baby Welker way too much.

I mean... justifiably so. He's one good hit away from shaken baby syndrome.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-03-2014, 12:24 PM
“It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are: [. . .]
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/27/nfl-attempts-to-clarify-the-defenseless-player-rules/

weazel
11-03-2014, 01:31 PM
was a good hit. we need guys that want to be that tough to play against. It was a a mirror of what happened in that game... NE basically kicked Denver in the teeth, and Denver wouldn't respond.

OB
11-03-2014, 05:16 PM
I am Ms. Cynical but that seriously was a clean hit - Joel - arent you the one always bantering about hits and the NFL being the no fun league and if we change the rules much more we mine as well be playing flag football? There is a thing called momentum and I think McCourty did a great job of holding back from it being much worse

spikerman
11-03-2014, 09:44 PM
Ok, this is going to look like a Joel post (no offense Joel), but I promised I would provide the college rule (and with the help of this site) and then some - I think the rules are pretty much the same except they don't eject for targeting in the NFL. This is taken directly from a website (I'll post the URL at the bottom). I know at the college level the officials are very well versed on 9-1-3 and 9-1-4 and I assume the NFL hammers these rules home as well to their officials. This is from the CFO and is written by Rogers Redding who pretty much wrote the NCAA rulebook. So, here goes:

TARGETING AND CROWN-OF-HELMET GUIDELINES FOR COACHES, PLAYERS AND OFFICIALS



INTRODUCTION

With the 2013 rule change that makes ejection from the game a part of the penalty for targeting fouls coaches, players and officials need to have a clear understanding of Rules 9-1-3 and 9-1-4. It is very important to understand that these fouls have not changed from previous years, and officials should officiate these plays as in the past. The characterization of defenseless players has been expanded (see below), but otherwise these rules for the fouls remain as they have been. It is the penalty that has changed.

These guidelines are intended to assist everyone involved in the game to understand these rules, which are so important in protecting the safety of the student-athlete.



RULES

Targeting and Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet (Rule 9-1-3)

No player shall target and initiate contact against an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul.

Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player (Rule 9-1-4)

No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 2-27-14)

Note: Beginning in 2013, ejection from the game is a part of the penalty for violation of both Rule 9-1-3 and Rule 9-1-4.



KEY ELEMENTS

Target—to take aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball.

Crown of the Helmet—the top portion of the helmet.

Contact to the head or neck area—not only with the helmet, but also with the forearm, fist, elbow, or shoulder—these can all lead to a foul.

Defenseless player—a player not in position to defend himself.

Examples (Rule 2-27-14):
•A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
•A receiver attempting to catch a pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
•A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the return.
•A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick.
•A player on the ground.
•A player obviously out of the play.
•A player who receives a blind-side block.
•A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress has been stopped.
•A quarterback any time after a change of possession.



KEY INDICATORS

Risk of a foul is high with one or more of these:
•Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make contact in the head or neck area
•A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with contact at the head or neck area—even though one or both feet are still on the ground
•Leading with helmet, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with contact at the head or neck area
•Lowering the head before attacking by initiating contact with the crown of the helmet



These indicate less risk of a foul:
•Heads-up tackle in which the crown of the helmet does not strike above the shoulders
•Wrap-up tackle
•Head is to the side rather than being used to initiate contact
•Incidental helmet contact that is not part of targeting but is due to the players changing position during the course of play



HINTS FOR PLAYERS
•Don’t lead with your head
•Lower your target--don’t go for the head or neck area with anything
•Tackle: Heads-up and wrap-up



Rogers Redding

National Coordinator of Football Officials


http://www.afca.com/article/article.php?id=2342

Denver Native (Carol)
11-03-2014, 09:58 PM
From Spikerman's post:

Defenseless player—a player not in position to defend himself.

Examples (Rule 2-27-14):

•A receiver attempting to catch a pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.

From my post, which is the NFL rule:

(a) Players in a defenseless posture are: [. . .]
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;

Does that not define what happened to Welker?

spikerman
11-03-2014, 10:04 PM
From Spikerman's post:

Defenseless player—a player not in position to defend himself.

Examples (Rule 2-27-14):

•A receiver attempting to catch a pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.

From my post, which is the NFL rule:

(a) Players in a defenseless posture are: [. . .]
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;

Does that not define what happened to Welker?

You have to take into account the rest of the defenseless player rule. Hitting a defenseless player is only a foul if it's in the head and neck area or with the crown of the helmet (unless it's on a player obviously out of the play). From the link you provided:

(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; and
(2) Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body.”

Denver Native (Carol)
11-03-2014, 10:46 PM
You have to take into account the rest of the defenseless player rule. Hitting a defenseless player is only a foul if it's in the head and neck area or with the crown of the helmet (unless it's on a player obviously out of the play). From the link you provided:

(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; and
(2) Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body.”

What am I not seeing in the following? It states all kinds of different situations which are considered defenseless players?
Definition of a Defenseless Player
http://nflcommunications.com/2011/12/27/definition-of-a-defenseless-player/

CrazyHorse
11-03-2014, 11:35 PM
Wasn't there a similar situation like this with Earl Thomas earlier in the season?

Ravage!!!
11-04-2014, 11:27 AM
You need glasses, or you need to be less disingenuous http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--8xZ2ePKV--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/adf5sf4ay6ojc1hwdszj.gif


That is about as legal of a hit as you can get in the NFL. I'm agreeing, that was not leading with the helmet. Some make the mistake that the head is in front of the body as it "leading witht he helmet." If anything, he hits with the side of his helmet. Completely legal and exactly what the NFL wants.

weazel
11-06-2014, 01:58 PM
damn that was a good hit! look at Wes' back bend in half like a soft cover book! absolutely nothing wrong with that hit, you dont like that, you dont like football.

Joel
11-08-2014, 05:24 PM
That was a legal hit. Joel do you know what the crown of the helmet is?
Yes, I know what the crown is: Everything above the forehead, and McCourtys helmet, and "just above the forehead" is the part of McCourtys helmet that struck Welker before anything else; not only that, but he dove (i.e. left his feet) to do it, so that's a textbook spear.


During the game I thought the defender had lead with the crown, but after watching replays - including the video imbedded in this thread - there is no way you can say first contact was between forehead and top of helmet. It was the side of the hat plain and simple. Also, Welker needs to retire.
I guess Pags is right then, because it's perfectly clear to me in EACH of those replays that first contact was from just ABOVE McCourtys forehead: The front part of the crown. My prescription's up to date though, so I gotta believe my lyin' eyes here.


I am Ms. Cynical but that seriously was a clean hit - Joel - arent you the one always bantering about hits and the NFL being the no fun league and if we change the rules much more we mine as well be playing flag football? There is a thing called momentum and I think McCourty did a great job of holding back from it being much worse
Yes and no: I complain the NFL flags, fines and suspends guys for STYLE POINTS on noninjurious unintentional/incidental contact while ignoring PREMEDITATED cheap shots as long as they comply with the letter of the law. This and Thomas' hit on Welker WOULD be great examples—except they didn't EVEN comply with the letter of the law while violating its spirit: Thomas aimed a head shot at a defenseless player attempting a catch, and McCourty into Welkers back with the crown of his helmet. LAUNCHING isn't "a great job of holding back momentum."

MOtorboat
11-08-2014, 05:29 PM
I'd double check those glasses, because that portion of the helmet never contacted any part of Welker.

Joel
11-08-2014, 05:32 PM
From Spikerman's post:

Defenseless player—a player not in position to defend himself.

Examples (Rule 2-27-14):

•A receiver attempting to catch a pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.

From my post, which is the NFL rule:

(a) Players in a defenseless posture are: [. . .]
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;

Does that not define what happened to Welker?
spikerman already answered, but since someone asked about the Thomas incident and I also referenced it, it should be noted those are similar but distinct:

Thomas' hit was a defenseless player foul because he intentionally struck WELKERS head WHILE Welker was defenseless; I could be wrong, but don't believe contacting a players helmet's a foul IF he has a chance to protect himself. McCourtys hit was a foul for initiating contact with the crown of the head (i.e. spearing,) which is illegal ANY time (i.e. whether or not the player can defend himself; in this case, Welker was defenseless, but hitting him in the back wouldn't have been a foul if McCourty actually HAD led with his shoulder rather than helmet.)

Obviously, the NFL refs and head office didn't see EITHER hit that way; my only explanation is they're running a pool on how many concussions it takes to force Welker into retirement.

MOtorboat
11-08-2014, 05:35 PM
Obviously, the NFL refs and head office didn't see EITHER hit that way; my only explanation is they're running a pool on how many concussions it takes to force Welker into retirement.

Yup, those are the options.

WTE
11-08-2014, 05:36 PM
I'd double check those glasses, because that portion of the helmet never contacted any part of Welker.

And I will check with the league office because I don't believe McCourtey received any fine.

MOtorboat
11-08-2014, 05:38 PM
And I will check with the league office because I don't believe McCourtey received any fine.

He didn't, and shouldn't.

spikerman
11-08-2014, 06:03 PM
Joel, I'm totally confused about what you think you see there. McCourty clearly and definitively turns his head and actually hits Welker with the side of his helmet. I'm not saying I'm always correct, but that isn't even close to leading with the crown of his helmet (spearing in your words). In fact, from what I can tell, the crown of his helmet never even touches Welker on that play.

WTE
11-08-2014, 06:11 PM
He didn't, and shouldn't.

I was actually being sarcastic. I know he wasn't fined and wasn't expecting it.

But I am sure Joel has been anxiously hoping and praying all week there was a fine so he could prove us all wrong.

Too bad Joel.

Joel
11-08-2014, 08:37 PM
Joel, I'm totally confused about what you think you see there. McCourty clearly and definitively turns his head and actually hits Welker with the side of his helmet. I'm not saying I'm always correct, but that isn't even close to leading with the crown of his helmet (spearing in your words). In fact, from what I can tell, the crown of his helmet never even touches Welker on that play.
In all the clips, his head doesn't turn until AFTER contact: HE didn't turn his head, Welkers back did—AFTER it was struck by the part of McCourtys helmet just ABOVE the forehead.

MOtorboat
11-08-2014, 08:41 PM
In all the clips, his head doesn't turn until AFTER contact: HE didn't turn his head, Welkers back did—AFTER it was struck by the part of McCourtys helmet just ABOVE the forehead.

No. It didn't. Good grief.

WTE
11-08-2014, 08:42 PM
In all the clips, his head doesn't turn until AFTER contact: HE didn't turn his head, Welkers back did—AFTER it was struck by the part of McCourtys helmet just ABOVE the forehead.

"Rookie O Line, Scrub WRs, Soft front four. This is gonna be sweet!"

-Joel

Runamok
11-08-2014, 08:58 PM
In all the clips, his head doesn't turn until AFTER contact: HE didn't turn his head, Welkers back did—AFTER it was struck by the part of McCourtys helmet just ABOVE the forehead.

Will you please just give it up and, for once, concede you are wrong. Just as you were wrong when you wouldn't concede NE presented a real threat last week.


No wonder people get on your case.

WTE
11-08-2014, 08:59 PM
Will you please just give it up and, for once, concede you are wrong. Just as you were wrong when you wouldn't concede NE presented a real threat last week.


No wonder people get on your case.

Joel is now a caricature of himself.

Runamok
11-08-2014, 09:06 PM
Joel is now a caricature of himself.

I didn't read through the entire thread. Did ANYONE agree with Joek (sic)?

SR
11-09-2014, 12:10 AM
I didn't read through the entire thread. Did ANYONE agree with Joek (sic)?

Probably just Cugel and UR29

BroncoJoe
11-09-2014, 10:44 AM
I didn't read through the entire thread. Did ANYONE agree with Joek (sic)?

Joek. LMFAO! That's gold, Jerry. GOLD!

broncohead
11-11-2014, 06:59 PM
The side of his helmet hits welker which turns his head. I didn't see the crown in contact at all.

weazel
11-13-2014, 12:44 PM
I like Joel, I dont have the hate for him like you guys do... but Joel that was a clean hit.

Joel
11-15-2014, 09:27 AM
The side of his helmet hits welker which turns his head. I didn't see the crown in contact at all.
Every time I watch it, I see first impact by the FRONT of his helmet just ABOVE the forehead: The crown. Since the side of his helmet was in Welkers back AFTER the hit turned his head, what MUST have been in Welkers back BEFORE the hit turned his head? Does McCourty have TWO right sides?


I like Joel, I dont have the hate for him like you guys do... but Joel that was a clean hit.
I respectfully disagree. But it's apparently IMPOSSIBLE to make an illegal hit on Welker; whether it's McCourty or Thomas and Swearinger head-hunting, it's all good, however many concussions caused.

Time to hang it up, Wes; don't make Goodell "really" hurt you.... ;)

SR
11-15-2014, 12:14 PM
It was a clean hit. The NFL agrees. You're wrong. Swallow it and move on to the next thing you're going to be wrong about.

Ravage!!!
11-15-2014, 12:30 PM
Every time I watch it, I see first impact by the FRONT of his helmet just ABOVE the forehead: The crown. Since the side of his helmet was in Welkers back AFTER the hit turned his head, what MUST have been in Welkers back BEFORE the hit turned his head? Does McCourty have TWO right sides?


I respectfully disagree. But it's apparently IMPOSSIBLE to make an illegal hit on Welker; whether it's McCourty or Thomas and Swearinger head-hunting, it's all good, however many concussions caused.

Time to hang it up, Wes; don't make Goodell "really" hurt you.... ;)

Joel... then you are seeing it wrong. You've seen it wrong from the start, and even the NFL that gives fines for nearly EVERY hard hit in the league, disagrees with you. This isn't an opinion piece as the facts clearly show that you are seeing it incorrectly.

Nomad
11-15-2014, 12:45 PM
You need glasses, or you need to be less disingenuous http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--8xZ2ePKV--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/adf5sf4ay6ojc1hwdszj.gif

I see this hit, and the first thing that came to my mind was when Mike Tyson said he broke his back and it was spinal.:lol:

One of the funniest things I've ever heard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8S7WH2wico

MOtorboat
11-15-2014, 01:05 PM
Seriously?

Nomad
11-15-2014, 01:10 PM
Seriously?

Yeah, I think it is damn funny.

MOtorboat
11-15-2014, 01:14 PM
Yeah, I think it is damn funny.

I was commenting on this thread getting bumped. Again.

Nomad
11-15-2014, 01:18 PM
I was commenting on this thread getting bumped. Again.

Oh! It's quite entertaining. Not sure what Joel is seeing, but he's very stubborn and persistent.:lol: I mean you have our resident journeyman referee, spiker, trying to explain to him it was a clean hit.

MOtorboat
11-15-2014, 01:20 PM
Oh! It's quite entertaining. Not sure what Joel is seeing, but he's very stubborn and persistent.:lol: I mean you have our resident journeyman referee, spiker, trying to explain to him it was a clean hit.

Joel is quite obviously blind, which explains a lot.

Joel
11-15-2014, 07:56 PM
Joel... then you are seeing it wrong. You've seen it wrong from the start, and even the NFL that gives fines for nearly EVERY hard hit in the league, disagrees with you. This isn't an opinion piece as the facts clearly show that you are seeing it incorrectly.
Okay, after looking at Pags' clip one more time I must concede broncohead's right: First impact was with the side of McCourtys helmet, not the top. It's close, but I think it is the side. So I stand corrected.

MOtorboat
11-15-2014, 08:02 PM
Lol.