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Denver Native (Carol)
10-27-2014, 01:11 PM
Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 6m

... Knighton 27th among DTs, Irving 8th among ILBs, Harris 2nd and Talib 21st among CBs, Moore 28th among safeties (2/2). (per @PFF)

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 6m

Notable @Broncos in @PFF rankings (D): Miller 1st & Marshall 4th among 4-3 OLBs, Jackson 9th, Wolfe 11th, Ware 19th among 4-3 DEs (1/2) ...

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 10m

Notable @Broncos in @PFF rankings (offense): DT 5th & Sanders 7th among WRs, Vasquez 12th among Gs, JT 8th among TEs, Manning 6th among QBs.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 15m

Your weekly Von Miller @PFF update: he's still the No. 2-ranked player in the NFL (26.4) behind only Houston's J.J. Watt (49.4).

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 20m

Denver has the only offense to score on all of its red-zone series (23/23), including 19 TDs. It averages 6.3 points per red-zone series.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 27m

In yardage per game, the @Broncos are 6th on offense, 3rd on defense. But in yardage per play, they're 2nd on offense and 1st on defense.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 30m

In total yardage gained & allowed, there are only two teams in the top 10 in both: the @Broncos, and ... Washington, believe it or not.

Andrew Mason retweeted
Chris Bianchi @chrisdbianchi · 2h

#Broncos-#Patriots game on Sunday looking at very least cold and windy…even with a 4:25pm ET kick, game-time temps below 40 likely. #mawx

Denver Native (Carol)
10-27-2014, 03:20 PM
Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold · 2h

For #Broncos LG Orlando Franklin and DE Derek Wolfe held out of Monday's practice because of illness, will be on field Wednesday.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-27-2014, 03:22 PM
Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 1h

In accepted penalties per game, the Broncos as a team are 27th (8.1 per game). The best is Jacksonville (4.6), so take that as you will.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-27-2014, 03:24 PM
Denver Broncos @Broncos · 34m

On-field snaps from Monday as #Broncos begin @Patriots prep. HAVE A LOOK: http://dbron.co/568


Denver Broncos @Broncos · 1h

Head coach John Fox talks @Patriots, as #Broncos get back to work at Dove Valley. http://dbron.co/567

VonDoom
10-27-2014, 03:52 PM
Okay, I like to think that I'm generally positive about my team on a week to week basis, but I'm getting pretty nervous about this game next week for a number of reasons:

1. It's in New England. I'm not going to bitch about how we "always" play there, because that's more of a schedule quirk than a conspiracy (to wit - we will potentially host NE three straight times starting next year). That being said, I would feel much more comfortable about this game if it were in Denver. Since 2009, Brady is 41-3 at home in the regular season (though strangely only 4-3 in the playoffs) and all of those losses have come to NFC teams. The last time Brady lost a home game to an AFC team in the regular season was 2006. People can talk about Seattle all they want, but winning in New England is no joke.

2. The weather. Last year's game there was crazy due to the conditions. This year's doesn't look that bad, but as of now, the high temp for the day is 42, dipping potentially below freezing as the sun goes down, with 17 MPH winds. Obviously we'll have to win some games in the cold this year, but we've had a run of playing in very comfortable temperatures so far. Will it be a shock to the system? Can our running game come through again? I can't take more "Manning can't win in the cold" stories.

3. The hype. Both teams are playing really well right now, but the Broncos have been given the designation of "best team in football" by many of the national football websites. Even Patriot boot-licker Bill Simmons had this to write recently:


Shaping up to be a historically great juggernaut, as our friend Aaron Schatz broke down even before last night’s San Diego win. I see them finishing 14-2 overall — they’ll lose in San Diego or Kansas City, but that’s it. And if Manning can’t win the Super Bowl with THIS team, then I don’t know what to tell you. http://grantland.com/the-triangle/week-8-picks-a-gambling-epiphany/

This is a classic "waiting for the other shoe to drop" worry. I don't want to see articles next week about how Brady with no weapons again trumps Manning with his Star Wars offense.

4. Gronk. How do we stop him? Based on the performance so far, I don't think it's TJ Ward.

5. Even our resident pessimist Joel was doing some downright trash talking in the SD game thread about this game. Have we gone into bizarro world? How can I know how to feel when Joel is confident in a win??

So, people, make me feel better about this game.

BroncoWave
10-27-2014, 03:59 PM
We'll be fine. We dominated 6 of the 8 quarters we played against them last year. This year's Broncos are better and this year's Pats are worse. They won't be able to run at all against us allowing us to focus on stopping their passing game. They don't have the weapons on d to even pretend to show down our offense. This will be a 10-14 point won for the good guys. Don't let their blowout win over the Bears scare you, that team is in shambles.

Nomad
10-27-2014, 04:05 PM
It'll be a tough game. As long as the BRONCOS come out with the W, I don't care how they do it.

tripp
10-27-2014, 04:20 PM
Bears have been a joke this year, Cutler has been a joke this year, Bears defence is one of the worst in the NFL, after last week's game Brandon Marshall is chewed out his entire team, including Cutler. Bears are a train wreck.

Patriots have lost Ridley, and Mayo for the season, Chandler Jones is done for atleast a month. This team is hurting. The only bright spots on the team is Gronk and LaFell, and even then I bet you Gronk is terrified of hurting his knee again, so I bet you TJ Ward can scare him quite a bit with a few big hits early to set the tone. New England's run D sucks, has even last year. Edelman is seeing less and less targets by the week, Amendola is just as productive as I am on the Patriots right now. This is a beat up Patriot team who got man handled a couple of weeks ago on Sunday Night against the Chiefs.

If we were to play the Patriots earlier in the season when we couldn't play a complete game, I would say this is a close game, but now we've ironed out most of the problems, I see this as ATLEAST 2 TD win for the Broncos. The best part is, Peyton doesn't even have to stand on his head to win this game. Ronnie Hillman will be explosive, along with two ex Patriots looking to get a last laugh at their former team. 41 - 17 Broncos.

atwater27
10-27-2014, 04:42 PM
We are as good as them at every position and have far superior WR's, D line, run defense and pass rush. If we lose this game against New England, it will be because we got outcoached. Bank it.

biddy1030
10-27-2014, 04:45 PM
The broncos have also had a few extra days of rest since they played a Thursday game. All of the pats wins have come against sub-par teams and they needed a last second blocked fg to beat the jets and just barely beat Oakland. I am not concerned.

Joel
10-27-2014, 04:46 PM
During the SD game (at least its second half) I was euphoric, because I told myself after SF I'd believe this a championship team if we played a full 60:00 4 days apart against two good teams: We did just that apart from SDs EoH drive and desperate rally at the end. Also, that was about when I read NE lost Chandler Jones. They'd already lost Mayo and Ridley, their WRs are still so weak a TE's by far their best receiver and they have a couple rookies starting on the inside of their offensive line: The #3 overall D and passing attack should SHRED that.

Once I came down though, all your other points re-emerged. Historically, Foxborough OWNS Denver AND Manning, apart and together. The forecast now's not much better than the freezing gusty conditions of Manning only truly bad 2013 game (and he was BAD, barely throwing for triple digit yardage: 101, IIRC; he had less in FIVE FULL QUARTERS @NE than ONE quarter vs. many teams.) And NE knows as well as we how big this game is; needs it more, given the standings: As bad as Manning and Denvers record is @Brady, his playoff record's just as winless @Denver and @Manning.

It may be time to let Gronk show us just how good Brandon Marshall is/n't, with some help from Ward over the top. He's one of the few things other than the location/weather that worry me:

1) Gronk: Hopefully we double cover/bracket him; we can spare Talib or Harris to help if needed, because I'm confident the other plus Roby and Webster can handle the likes of Edelman, LaFell and Wright.

2) Passing D: NE fell from #1 to #2 in passing yds/gm, but only because the Bears ran 2:00 drills the whole second half; NE is still 8th in yds/att, 7th in Ints and 9th in sacks (FWIW, we're better in all but Ints.)

3) Brady: The Pats WRs range from average to poor, and our D's much improved, but we still tend to dominate 1st and 2nd down only to give up 3rd and long and up with our backs to our own goal line.

I hope our improved running the past 2½ games is for real and fully exploit it against a 25th ranked run D (per attempt and per game) missing it's best LB and DE. Both secondaries are good, and our WRs far better, but the QB who LIVES in unpredictably intermittent 15-20 mph winds handles them far better than the one who just visits 1 wk/yr. And since our run D's so much better than theirs, it's a great way to wear out their secondary and pass rush while keeping ours fresh. If a sudden gust grabs one of Mannings long balls, Revis or Dennard's like to grab it next.

Other than that, let VonWareWolfe work Solder and Vollmer (who are both GOOD OTs) while Knighton, Sly and Austin push those rookies into Bradys face and we stuff Vereen repeatedly. DON'T BLITZ BRADY; trust all your excellent CBs to do their jobs while Ward helps Marshall and Irving with Gronk, with Moore guarding the end zone (that means no freelancing, hotdogger.) Remember: A coverage sack is STILL a sack, and our DTs plus maybe a few stunts with WareWolfeman Jackson could abuse those rookie guards to create pressure up the gut where Brady and Manning hate it.

It should go without saying OUR line needs to come up big, especially against Ninkovich (who seems to always terrorize our backfield;) the line must come up big EVERY week to do well.

This game's HUGE, as always: Yet again, the two most popular picks for AFC Champ are squaring off in a game with big implications. The playoff tournament makes truly historic regular season games rare, but this is could be one of them, is a potentially defining contest for both teams, deciding whether Mannings Broncos are finally Champions and whether the Pats dynasty is truly ended. Y'know, not to oversell it. :tongue:

Joel
10-27-2014, 04:49 PM
The broncos have also had a few extra days of rest since they played a Thursday game. All of the pats wins have come against sub-par teams and they needed a last second blocked fg to beat the jets and just barely beat Oakland. I am not concerned.
That could work against rather than for us though: We just gritted our teeth to play complete games against two good teams four days apart, and beat both authoritatively, but it's hard enough to maintain the level of focus and intensity for three games straight; doing it with a 10-day gap before the last one's even harder. But if anything can hold our attention, it's @NE, especially after what they did yesterday.

aberdien
10-27-2014, 05:05 PM
Playing the Pats always makes me nervous.

Nomad
10-27-2014, 05:16 PM
Playing the Pats always makes me nervous.

I dont blame you. BRONCOS have lost 4 of the last 5 against them, or something like that.

Joel
10-27-2014, 05:19 PM
Playing the Pats always makes me nervous.
If we were hosting, I'd confidently predict we blow out NE, but in Foxborough... never a good place for us, nor for Manning. All the more reason we need to win Sunday so we aren't tied, with them holding the tiebreak. The last half of their schedule's so much tougher than ours we could still wind up with homefield even if we lose—but at least Belicheat must know that, too, and that there's no WAY they could catch us if we WIN: We'd be two games up plus the tiebreak. Expect NE to come out like they're playing for playoff homefield, because they pretty much are.

HORSEPOWER 56
10-27-2014, 06:25 PM
There are two things that concern me this Sunday.
1) Gronkowski - he's back to his old form and we struggled with Gates vs SD. I hope we can at least contain him but I also hope we don't get too focused on him and allow their other receivers to have a field day. Brady does a great job finding the open man, like Manning does.

2) Minkovich - Although he's not a world beater, he's a hard worker and he'll be lining up against Cornick all day. He's a guy who plays best in big games. This is a big game. If we don't account for him, he can be that guy on defense who makes the difference between our offense's success or failure. The last thing we need is to have this guy play like Von Miller because Cornick can't block him.

Also, Hillman and Thompson will need to come up big in this one. With the weather forecast, it's probably not going to be the best game to sling it around the yard.

tripp
10-27-2014, 07:02 PM
This is the one game where I think there is some dispute whether we're the real deal and if we've really changed. We blow em out in Foxboro Sunday, we'll be undeniably the best team in the NFL.

Joel
10-27-2014, 07:25 PM
There are two things that concern me this Sunday.
1) Gronkowski - he's back to his old form and we struggled with Gates vs SD. I hope we can at least contain him but I also hope we don't get too focused on him and allow their other receivers to have a field day. Brady does a great job finding the open man, like Manning does.
I just flat don't think their WRs nearly good enough to beat Talib, Harris, Roby and/or Webster one-on-one if we double/bracket Gronk. We couldn't do that against SD, because Floyd, Royal and Allen ARE good enough to do damage one-on-one, but Edelman, Amendola and Wright aren't; they just AREN'T. Maybe against average or worse CBs, but not our very good ones. Marshall on Gates with Ward helping over the top, Irving in an middle zone underneath and Moore playing centerfield: We can leave Talib, Harris and Roby on islands against their WRs, or even Webster if we want to put Talib or Harris on Gronk.


2) Minkovich - Although he's not a world beater, he's a hard worker and he'll be lining up against Cornick all day. He's a guy who plays best in big games. This is a big game. If we don't account for him, he can be that guy on defense who makes the difference between our offense's success or failure. The last thing we need is to have this guy play like Von Miller because Cornick can't block him.
Ninkovich, and yes, he seems to ALWAYS have great games against us, all the way back to (at least) 2011. But he, Wilfork and Hightower are all their front seven have left now that Chandler Jones and Jerod Mayo are out, and Wilfork's starting to wear down with age (though not enough he's not a threat via Ramirez and Franklin.)


Also, Hillman and Thompson will need to come up big in this one. With the weather forecast, it's probably not going to be the best game to sling it around the yard.
A very good point, especially since their run D's 8th worst in yds/att and yds/gm; I'd rather go after than a pass D #2 in yds/gm and 8th in yds/att even if the winds were calm or predictable. I know we want to play to our strengths, but sometimes playing to THEIR weaknesses is as much or more effective. Especially if it sidelines Brady and rests our D while tiring theirs.


This is the one game where I think there is some dispute whether we're the real deal and if we've really changed. We blow em out in Foxboro Sunday, we'll be undeniably the best team in the NFL.
Pretty much, though I think winning by ANY margin there will cement that view. Again, mathematically as well as popularly.

VonDoom
10-27-2014, 07:43 PM
I'm glad we've got some confidence in this thread - it's making me feel better, which is why I started this in the first place. Keep 'em coming.

Joel
10-27-2014, 08:14 PM
I'm glad we've got some confidence in this thread - it's making me feel better, which is why I started this in the first place. Keep 'em coming.
EVERY aspect (except coaching) favors us, so we must just do our job and stay alert. Their secondary's good, but our WRs better; our poor run game's improved, and their equally poor run D hasn't (yesterdays rout sidelined Forte early—but he still averaged 6 yds/att and finished with 114) They have Brady, Gronk and (perhaps) unpredictably sudden and strong winds, but we have EVERYTHING else. It SHOULDN'T be close, but with all the history, I'll be content staying healthy and winning by ANY margin.

tripp
10-27-2014, 08:28 PM
EVERY aspect (except coaching) favors us, so we must just do our job and stay alert. Their secondary's good, but our WRs better; our poor run game's improved, and their equally poor run D hasn't (yesterdays rout sidelined Forte early—but he still averaged 6 yds/att and finished with 114) They have Brady, Gronk and (perhaps) unpredictably sudden and strong winds, but we have EVERYTHING else. It SHOULDN'T be close, but with all the history, I'll be content staying healthy and winning by ANY margin.

As I have said before too, they're missing two key defensive players in Jerod Mayo and Chandler Jones. There goes their top pass rusher, and best line backer. Now their defense just got worse. 49ers defense that we played was better than theirs.

Joel
10-27-2014, 08:48 PM
As I have said before too, they're missing two key defensive players in Jerod Mayo and Chandler Jones. There goes their top pass rusher, and best line backer. Now their defense just got worse. 49ers defense that we played was better than theirs.
New Englands secondary's much better, but yeah, losing their best LB and DE makes a bad run D much worse, so I hope we go right down their throats and obviate Manning vs. the icy wind. It's the same thing I wanted to do in the SB, though the disparity between Seattles #1 pass and #7 run D wasn't as great as that between NEs #2 pass and #25 run D.

tripp
10-27-2014, 08:51 PM
New Englands secondary's much better, but yeah, losing their best LB and DE makes a bad run D much worse, so I hope we go right down their throats and obviate Manning vs. the icy wind. It's the same thing I wanted to do in the SB, though the disparity between Seattles #1 pass and #7 run D wasn't as great as that between NEs #2 pass and #25 run D.

I would just take advantage of their LB situation and run it up the gut and do crossing routes. Utilize JT in the middle of the field. We'll see how good Revis is matched up against DT. I was more nervous of the SD game than I am against the Pats.

WTE
10-27-2014, 08:54 PM
We might have lost our best pass rusher in Chandler Jones but we also lost our worst run stopper, by far.

So we'll be fine w/ Easley, Moore and Ayers.

FanInAZ
10-27-2014, 09:02 PM
It should be a lot more spirited around here than Chargers, Chiefs & Raiders weeks. The 1 fan of 2 of our 3 rival pretty much makes a guest appearance on gameday, then goes back into hiding. We can't get even that much out of a Chiefs' fan anymore. However, there're at least 3 Patriots' fans/troll that have been stirring things up around here for years. They're all ready on their worst behavior ;)

chazoe60
10-27-2014, 09:07 PM
:fish::fish:
We might have lost our best pass rusher in Chandler Jones but we also lost our worst run stopper, by far.

So we'll be fine w/ Easley, Moore and Ayers.

Yeah because everyone knows the key to beating the Broncos is stopping the run. :fish:

Joel
10-27-2014, 09:18 PM
We might have lost our best pass rusher in Chandler Jones but we also lost our worst run stopper, by far.

So we'll be fine w/ Easley, Moore and Ayers.
You could always sign a DE who does BOTH well, but he probably won't work for tips. ;)

Bosco
10-27-2014, 09:23 PM
4. Gronk. How do we stop him? Based on the performance so far, I don't think it's TJ Ward.
Ward has played great this year. Why would you not want to have him cover Gronk?

Failing that, Quinton Carter is always a very viable option.

WTE
10-27-2014, 09:34 PM
:fish::fish:

Yeah because everyone knows the key to beating the Broncos is stopping the run. :fish:

You tried it before against us with Moreno. It still didn't get you a Championship.

VonDoom
10-27-2014, 09:35 PM
Ward has played great this year. Why would you not want to have him cover Gronk?

Failing that, Quinton Carter is always a very viable option.

I like the physicality that Ward brings, but he has not been able to cover top TE's so far. Gates abused him down by the goal line, and at this point, Gronk is much better than Gates.

Bracket coverage seems the most likely, though Talib might be a choice as well. People were talking about Talib shutting down Jimmy Graham last year, so maybe he could bring a repeat performance of that.

chazoe60
10-27-2014, 09:44 PM
You tried it before against us with Moreno. It still didn't get you a Championship.

Yes it did. An AFC Championship.

WTE
10-27-2014, 09:47 PM
Yes it did. An AFC Championship.

LOL. Your Gateway to Humiliation.

Remember when you had no concerns at all heading into that Seattle game? You and Joel are like two peas in a pod.

chazoe60
10-27-2014, 09:51 PM
LOL. Your Gateway to Humiliation.

Remember when you had no concerns at all heading into that Seattle game? You and Joel are like two peas in a pod.
Sure WTE.

WTE
10-27-2014, 10:01 PM
Sure WTE.

It's true. You and Joel have a lot more in common than you think.

chazoe60
10-27-2014, 10:12 PM
It's true. You and Joel have a lot more in common than you think.

Yes, we both have arms and legs (I assume anyway).

Shazam!
10-27-2014, 10:49 PM
The Patriots are not Seattle.

Joel
10-27-2014, 10:55 PM
The Patriots are not Seattle.
Never said they were, but the same gameplan that would've worked on Seattle (if we could've executed it) is even better suited to NE. It's not like they've gotten any better against the run than when Moreno busted off >220 yds on them last year, and when that gasses Hillman as it did Moreno, I've got a lot more faith in Thompson pounding them than I did Hillman or Andersen then. If the wind's stop-and-start at high velocity again, I don't want to get into an air war with a guy who regular practices in that; not when their secondary's great but their front seven's Swiss cheese.

Joel
10-27-2014, 10:55 PM
Yes, we both have arms and legs (I assume anyway).
Yes, but my third leg's MUCH bigger than yours. :tongue:

Bosco
10-28-2014, 12:24 AM
I like the physicality that Ward brings, but he has not been able to cover top TE's so far. Gates abused him down by the goal line, and at this point, Gronk is much better than Gates.

Bracket coverage seems the most likely, though Talib might be a choice as well. People were talking about Talib shutting down Jimmy Graham last year, so maybe he could bring a repeat performance of that.

The idea that Ward was "abused" is really off base. On both of those touchdowns, Ward was literally in Gates' back pocket. Sometimes, there is just nothing you can do.

Joel
10-28-2014, 04:44 AM
Twice in the same game is one sometimes too many, but if we accept that explanation it's no reason to expect Gronk'll be any different. If we've amped up our meanness while remaining lightning fast as everyone says, we should be able to at least LIMIT him even if he can't be shutdown completely. I'd rather dare Edelman or Wright to beat me than Gronk: There's no shame in doubling up on a Pro Bowler complemented by multiple nondescript teammates.

I still like Marshall on Gronk with Irving in a shallow mid-zone, Ward helping over the top and Moore playing centerfield. However, Talib on Gronk, Harris on Edelman, Roby on Wright and Webster on Amendola would still leave us in pretty good shape. Especially if we can get to Brady with just our excellent front four and Ware; then Irving AND Marshall could play an underneath zone on each side of the field, and we'd have the option of Talib on Gronk with Ward over the top (a combo that would give even the best trouble) or sending Ward up the gut as a sixth blitzer.

I generally dislike heavy blitzes of elite QBs though; the more coverage the better, especially since we're likely to need Marshall or Irving for solid coverage of Vereen out of the backfield.

sneakers
10-28-2014, 05:38 AM
lol who cares about the Patriots, the only reason they have such a good record every year is because every other team in their division has been absolute garbage for the last 10 years.

Valar Morghulis
10-28-2014, 06:05 AM
While Ware has been an amazing addition - he has yet to steal the show - this might be his week. Unlucky Thomas.

Joel
10-28-2014, 08:03 AM
lol who cares about the Patriots, the only reason they have such a good record every year is because every other team in their division has been absolute garbage for the last 10 years.
That's not entirely true: The Jets made back-to-back AFCCGs—but Pats fans dislike discussing that.... ;)

For all the Orton mockery, Buffalo's only a game back of NE now, and their bye would make that just ½ game if we beat NE. I doubt they steal the division with an upset Week 17, but it's theoretically possible. More dire for NE would be this: Our second half's easier and Indys MUCH easier than theirs, and a win next week would put us up 2 games plus the tiebreak, which wouldn't just all but clinch playoff homefield—it would make their NEXT game (@Indy) a do-or-die to avoid ending up hosting a WILDCARD game before going on the road for all other playoff games (if any.)

This game's critical to both of us, but they need it far more: Even a loss would only give them the AFCs best record by virtue of the tiebreak, and they're likely to lose more of their final 8 than we.

Joel
10-28-2014, 08:07 AM
While Ware has been an amazing addition - he has yet to steal the show - this might be his week. Unlucky Thomas.
I dunno, every year, fans here tell us Miller and Doom/Phillips/Ware will rip Brady apart, and every year I try to remind them Vollmer and Solder are both very good tackles. Unless Knighton, Miller and/or Ward can come up the gut (and Ward may be busy with Gronk) we could have trouble reaching Brady before he burns us. Just like most other years. Just gotta trust our excellent secondary and solid coverage LBs, and DON'T BLITZ BRADY. A coverage sack is still a sack, but blitzes leave SOMEONE open, and Brady will always quickly find ANY open man.

7DnBrnc53
10-28-2014, 09:15 AM
That's not entirely true: The Jets made back-to-back AFCCGs—but Pats fans dislike discussing that.... ;)

This game's critical to both of us, but they need it far more: Even a loss would only give them the AFCs best record by virtue of the tiebreak, and they're likely to lose more of their final 8 than we.

They only got there in 09 because the Colts decided that they didn't want to go undefeated, so they rested their starters, and the Jets got into the playoffs as a result.

Also, if the Jets don't make that run in 09, do they even have the same success the next year, and if they don't, is Rex Ryan gone by now?

I agree with you about the Pats, though. They need this game more. However, the Broncos also need this win for psychological reasons. NE is still NE because they have Brady and Belichick, and if the Broncos can go in there and win, that will be a big star for us moving forward, and it may send them to their decline because of their schedule.

HORSEPOWER 56
10-28-2014, 09:40 AM
Just like us, NE is a timing offense. I really think our defense needs to take a page from the defenses that have been successful vs their offense. Playing conservatively in zone will get us beat quicker than anything.

We must be aggressive (man press) coverage and be able to get pressure with just the front four. If there was a game to bring back the NASCAR defense, this is it. We can't afford to let them stay in the field. We've got to get off the field on 3rd down. This is the game where JDR must dig into his bag o tricks and get creative. I'm not saying blitz a lot, but disguise and timely blitzes can make a big difference.

TXBRONC
10-28-2014, 09:51 AM
Playing the Pats always makes me nervous.

Clint Eastwood wouldn't be nervous.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-28-2014, 10:59 AM
We will be the best D they've faced all year. They're not scoring 35 this weekend.

EastCoastBronco
10-28-2014, 11:03 AM
Clint Eastwood wouldn't be nervous.

35 points is a lot of points. They're gonna have to earn it...;-)

Enjoy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXldafIl5DQ

Joel
10-29-2014, 02:54 AM
Just like us, NE is a timing offense. I really think our defense needs to take a page from the defenses that have been successful vs their offense. Playing conservatively in zone will get us beat quicker than anything.

We must be aggressive (man press) coverage and be able to get pressure with just the front four. If there was a game to bring back the NASCAR defense, this is it. We can't afford to let them stay in the field. We've got to get off the field on 3rd down. This is the game where JDR must dig into his bag o tricks and get creative. I'm not saying blitz a lot, but disguise and timely blitzes can make a big difference.
There's no reason CBs can't play man-press while LBs and safeties play zone. If anything, there's reason we SHOULD keep LBs and safeties in zone so anyone who beats a jam's not immediately wide open.

All that's a great example of why we should NOT rush >5 at a surgeon like Brady. Wily old DBs like Fox and LBs like Del Rio know 6-7 guys allow myriad coverage options—most vanish with 6-7 blitzers. Let Von Miller be Von Miller, but otherwise let an excellent secondary and solid cover LBs be THAT. I wouldn't mind a few stunts at those interior linemen either; they're softer than NEs OTs.

Joel
10-29-2014, 07:53 AM
They only got there in 09 because the Colts decided that they didn't want to go undefeated, so they rested their starters, and the Jets got into the playoffs as a result.
Maybe; they still had to win two playoff games on the road to reach that rematch with Indy, so it's not like NE had no legit divisional competition that year.

Also, if the Jets don't make that run in 09, do they even have the same success the next year, and if they don't, is Rex Ryan gone by now?
Maybe not, but, again: Reaching their second straight AFCCG took two more road playoff wins—one in Foxborough, which shows the level of competition NE faced to win the division.


I agree with you about the Pats, though. They need this game more. However, the Broncos also need this win for psychological reasons. NE is still NE because they have Brady and Belichick, and if the Broncos can go in there and win, that will be a big star for us moving forward, and it may send them to their decline because of their schedule.
Oh, definitely: Literally; as noted elsewhere, this game could well define our season, much as beating NE in the playoffs (albeit at home) defined Indys '06 season. Without the backstory for the teams and QBs, this is a total mismatch—but those backstory's are far too big to ignore, and a real test for a Broncos team that's had championship talent for a while yet consistently shown it lacks a championship attitude and mindset. If the team finally gets over the NE hump, it would go far toward proving to themselves and everyone else they've finally gotten over that OTHER hump.

tripp
10-29-2014, 12:44 PM
This could be the same as last year... where we drop this one, and some how luck out and have them come to us in the playoffs. In the event we lose this game, we can't afford to drop a game to SD or KC, even though the Pats have a tough schedule up ahead. I still feel very confident about the game in Foxboro. We're just a better all around team, and not just on paper, we're playing like it too. This whole New England rivalry, and the Manning v Brady thing has nothing to do with half the players on this team. The majority of our defense is brand new to our team, they don't know the history of New England. It's just another game to them. I hear that the weather will be windy and snowy/rainy, either way shouldn't really change our game plan. Take advantage of their piss poor run D, and make short accurate throws, and let your receivers do the work.

Mike
10-29-2014, 01:35 PM
This could be the same as last year... where we drop this one, and some how luck out and have them come to us in the playoffs. In the event we lose this game, we can't afford to drop a game to SD or KC, even though the Pats have a tough schedule up ahead. I still feel very confident about the game in Foxboro. We're just a better all around team, and not just on paper, we're playing like it too. This whole New England rivalry, and the Manning v Brady thing has nothing to do with half the players on this team. The majority of our defense is brand new to our team, they don't know the history of New England. It's just another game to them. I hear that the weather will be windy and snowy/rainy, either way shouldn't really change our game plan. Take advantage of their piss poor run D, and make short accurate throws, and let your receivers do the work.

I don't think Denver can afford to drop this one and keep homefield advantage in the playoffs. If Denver wants homefield throughout then this is the game that will go a long way to that. Won't say it is a must-win, but this is a big one. Lose it and we are looking up at NE and needing things to happen.

tripp
10-29-2014, 01:49 PM
I don't think Denver can afford to drop this one and keep homefield advantage in the playoffs. If Denver wants homefield throughout then this is the game that will go a long way to that. Won't say it is a must-win, but this is a big one. Lose it and we are looking up at NE and needing things to happen.

I'm confident we win by 2 scores. Patriots aren't the same team they used to be, and we're even better than last year. Don't care about the weather, it's a matter of how much better we are on defense, and the emergence of Emmanuel Sanders.

Joel
10-29-2014, 02:30 PM
We could probably get away with losing this one and another; I don't think this NE team can go 13-3 with that schedule. But that's not how a championship team should be thinking, especially facing their biggest rival of the past decade, and not how THIS team seemed to be thinking its last two games, which is the most encouraging thing I've seen in it for a long time.

Most of the D (apart from Talib) may not have a history with NE, but most of the offense has been here long enough to remember blowing a 3-score lead to get blown OUT in 2011, then having Brady put 5 TDs on us in the first half in the playoffs (I know Von Miller remembers Bradys 3rd down punt.) We have plenty of NE demons who need exorcism.

I DO agree with tripps offensive gameplan: Their run D's not any better than the one Moreno ran all over for 220+ yds last year, and Hillmans backups are better and more reliable than Morenos were, IMHO. I know people want to play to our strengths and stick with what we know, but Belicheat knows what we know, and I'd rather rip into his D ranked 25th in rushing yds/att AND per-game than the part ranked 2nd in passing yds/game and 8th in yds/att. Throw in winds going from gale to calm in an instant, and we just can't trust the long ball; maybe if we lived there long enough to adjust, but we're renting hotel rooms.

Then it's down to whether we can handle Bradys elite TE, scrub WRs and receiving RB, because I don't see Vereen coming off the bench as Ridleys backup to gash a run D giving up less yds/gm than ANYONE. New England is the exact situation that cost us last years SB: Their one-dimensional offense has half-done our Ds job by telling us what's coming—and their WRs aren't NEARLY as good as ours were then.

VonDoom
10-29-2014, 02:55 PM
A couple of notes from Twitter today:


Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 24m24 minutes ago

Ronnie Hillman limited with shoulder. John Fox said he "landed funny."


Arran Andersen ‏@arranandersen 20m20 minutes ago

Emmanuel Sanders and Julius Thomas were holding green balls after practice, John Fox says ball control is of paramount importance this week

That first one could be a problem. Hopefully we'll know if it's anything to worry about before Sunday.

VonDoom
10-29-2014, 03:46 PM
We could probably get away with losing this one and another; I don't think this NE team can go 13-3 with that schedule. But that's not how a championship team should be thinking, especially facing their biggest rival of the past decade, and not how THIS team seemed to be thinking its last two games, which is the most encouraging thing I've seen in it for a long time.

I agree with both of these things; we shouldn't take this game lightly (and I don't think we will) but it will not cripple us completely if we lose. Here are some stats to back that up:


This game does have a significant impact on the race for the top playoff seed in the AFC. Going into Week 9, the Broncos are the clear favorite, with a 79 percent chance of winning the No. 1 seed. If New England is able to pull off a victory at home, the race opens up considerably. The Broncos’ chances drop to 59 percent, with the benefit largely accruing to the Patriots: The Patriots’ top-seed probability would increase from 9 percent to 21 percent. And because the first tiebreaker used is head-to-head matchups, a win against the Broncos is worth two games to the Patriots.

The chart right below that shows our chances for the #1 seed; if we lose, we go from 79% to 59%, as it says here, which is still in our favor, if not overwhelmingly. If we win, though, our chances for a #1 seed increase to 91%! I'd love to come out of Sunday with those odds.

The rest: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/nfl-week-9-playoff-implications-a-crucial-week-for-the-saints-and-panthers/

Denver Native (Carol)
10-29-2014, 04:37 PM
Louis Vasquez held out of practice, Ronnie Hillman limited

http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/9598/louis-vasquez-held-out-of-practice-ronnie-hillman-limited

Denver Native (Carol)
10-29-2014, 04:46 PM
Lindsay Jones @bylindsayhjones · 5h

RT @USATODAYsports: Tom Brady on Manning matchup: 'You wait a year to play this game' http://usat.ly/1wFlpNA

Joel
10-29-2014, 04:52 PM
I agree with both of these things; we shouldn't take this game lightly (and I don't think we will) but it will not cripple us completely if we lose. Here are some stats to back that up:

The chart right below that shows our chances for the #1 seed; if we lose, we go from 79% to 59%, as it says here, which is still in our favor, if not overwhelmingly. If we win, though, our chances for a #1 seed increase to 91%! I'd love to come out of Sunday with those odds.

The rest: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/nfl-week-9-playoff-implications-a-crucial-week-for-the-saints-and-panthers/
We're effectively 3 games up on the AFCS leader (since we won the head-to-head,) 2½ on the AFCN leader (whom we play on the road later) and 2 on the next AFCW team, who CAN'T win the first tiebreak (since we already beat them once) and can't finish >4-2 in a division where we're 2-0. With just over half the season left, that's a lot of ground to make up, especially since few people would expect us to lose @Cincy if we win @NE (who annihilated them.) Houston or Baltimore could still win those divisions, but in those cases we're even FURTHER ahead of the eventual division winners.

That only leaves NE, but we're only 1 game up on them: They'd become the AFCs top team if they beat us, though their remaining schedule's tougher, so they might not hold it—but if WE win they're effectively 3 games back just like Indy, whom they'd HAVE to beat on the road NEXT week just to get a bye (because Indys schedule after NE is VERY soft.) A loss won't cripple us, but WOULD cripple them, which is all the more reason to treat this like they playoff game it is in all but name.

I doubt any of that's lost on our guys though, who played with intensity and focus throughout their last two games, and are substantially more talented on paper. Only way we should lose is if someone convinces them (or lets them convince themselves) "not too shabby" is good enough to read their own press clippings when they should be watching film.

VonDoom
10-29-2014, 04:57 PM
Good point on the Colts. If NE lost to both of us, they'd be on their way to the wild card round instead of a bye

Joel
10-29-2014, 05:22 PM
It's on the road, too; I think that makes us a trap game. :tongue:

Denver Native (Carol)
10-30-2014, 02:55 PM
Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 3h

Lamin Barrow (concussion) is back at practice in a helmet. Montee Ball (groin) and Quinton Carter (hamstring) are working w/ a team trainer.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver · 3h

Louis Vasquez is back at practice today. He missed Wednesday's work because of illness. Ronnie Hillman (shoulder) is practicing today, too.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-31-2014, 01:13 PM
Broncos cornerback Kayvon Webster was granted an excused absence from practice Friday at the team's Dove Valley headquarters. Webster is attending to a personal family matter.

The Broncos face the New England Patriots on Sunday in a showdown between the two AFC powerhouses.

The Broncos are scheduled to leave for New England on Friday afternoon, and Webster will meet the team there.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26837445/kayvon-webster-excused-from-broncos-practice-personal-reasons

Angel
10-31-2014, 01:34 PM
Good point on the Colts. If NE lost to both of us, they'd be on their way to the wild card round instead of a bye

The pats actually have to play several good teams in a row for a change, I see them losing to the Bronco's, Colts , Chargers, Lions, Packers, and they already got beat badly by the Dolphins who could easily beat them again, even the Jets should have beat them!!!

Joel
10-31-2014, 01:39 PM
Hope Webster and his family are OK (as much as possible if he had to miss practice.) Combined with Quinton Carter missing practice time with an injury, it does make a bit concerned about our coverage Sunday, even if NEs only quality WR is a TE.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-31-2014, 01:52 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26837445/kayvon-webster-excused-from-broncos-practice-personal-reasons

VonDoom
10-31-2014, 03:56 PM
The pats actually have to play several good teams in a row for a change, I see them losing to the Bronco's, Colts , Chargers, Lions, Packers, and they already got beat badly by the Dolphins who could easily beat them again, even the Jets should have beat them!!!

Let's not get too excited here - there's no chance the Pats are losing their next five games. I'd settle for 2-3 (even 3-2, as long as we were one of the two)

Joel
10-31-2014, 04:17 PM
Let's not get too excited here - there's no chance the Pats are losing their next five games. I'd settle for 2-3 (even 3-2, as long as we were one of the two)
Lambeau in late November or early December (I can't recall which) should be tough, but the Pack's D is very suspect after what Seattle and NO did to them, and NEs sole defensive strength may match the GBs sole team strength. I still don't buy Indys D either, and, again, their great passing attack is offset by NEs great secondary. I could still see them losing on the road though (and would LOVE them to lose to us and Indy: Bye-bye, bye. :)) They're at home for Detroit, but the Lions D could still give them trouble, especially if they have Megatron back and Stafford shows up before the fourth quarter.

The one I can't awaiting almost as intensely as our game though is @SD, because if the Bolts are healthy for that game they could destroy NE. Part of what's annoying about SD is they're so similar to us offensively: Great QB+great WRs=great passing attack; they're just having to work overtime to match it with good enough running teams don't sell out on stopping the pass. The good news (or bad news in the NE game) is they don't have our complementary top five D, so Rivers and his receivers must do it all. Yet that might be just enough given all the holes in NEs team.

I agree, 2-3 would be more than good enough, or 3-2 as long as one of them's us. Still hope it's the NEXT two though; NEs shot at homefield would be toast, the odds would be against them getting a bye given the softness of Indys remaining schedule, and all that combined with a losing streak would revive all the talk about whether Brady and Belichick are on their way out the door. But notwithstanding all those hypotheticals, they all start with us taking care of business like champions Sunday, and no other way.

If we do that I'm not too concerned WHAT NE does the rest of the regular season: If we see them again AT ALL, it'll be at Mile High (where Brady's never won a playoff game.)

Denver Native (Carol)
10-31-2014, 04:26 PM
Take a look back at the Broncos top 5 moments against the Patriots.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Top-5-moments-against-the-Patriots/6cd230ea-7dde-4adb-bded-df06be5cc7aa

Magnificent Seven
10-31-2014, 05:07 PM
Ultimate fans predicting a blowout in Foxboro...and we're not talking about snow

Check this out.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/10/31/7136051/ultimate-fans-predicting-a-blowout-in-foxboro-and-were-not-talking

Denver Native (Carol)
10-31-2014, 07:12 PM
Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 2h

Broncos gave tryout to rookie P Michael Palardy this week. He boots left-footed, as does NE's Ryan Allen.

Joel
10-31-2014, 08:14 PM
IT'S THE PATRIOTS IN THEIR HOUSE. IF YOU CAN'T GET FIRED UP FOR THAT, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY BE SELLING INSURANCE.
That really does say it all; I admit being a bit worried a team that's had trouble getting up to play from kickoff to gun could do it THREE GAMES STRAIGHT with 10 days off before the last one—but if anyone was oblivious enough to miss what Manning and Bradys rematch of last years AFCCG means, NE annihilating Chicago in their house last week was a stark reminder. I'm confident we'll come to play, and more confident of a Foxborough win than I've been in a long time.

If anything, the risk is relaxing AFTER NE, when we might actually get away with it in terms of securing homefield, but won't get to enjoy it long if we coast through the whole last half of the season.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-31-2014, 08:56 PM
Tom Brady and Peyton Manning will complete a full season of games against each other on Sunday when they meet for the 16th time in their storied careers. Like so many other matchups in Foxborough, this one could be affected by the weather.

The National Weather Service forecasts a chance of rain, with wind around 15 mph and gusts up to 35 mph. Temperatures are expected to be in the 40s. Last season's matchup had similarly windy conditions, and the Broncos' offense was out of sync in the second half after building up a big lead. Bill Belichick doesn't put too much stock in early forecasts.

"If I did my job the way they do theirs, I'd be here about a week," Belichick said, never afraid to put meteorologists on blast. "Look, I'm not saying I could do it better than them, I'm just saying they're wrong a lot. That's a fact. They are wrong a lot. We all make mistakes. I'm not being critical of them. I'm just saying I don't think you go based on that."

rest - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000420498/article/heavy-winds-expected-for-broncospatriots

Nomad
10-31-2014, 09:14 PM
I'd rather see snow game than a cold, windy rain game for Manning.

Joel
10-31-2014, 09:28 PM
I'd rather see snow game than a cold, windy rain game for Manning.
The gusts up to 35 mph concern me more than the general 15 mph winds forecast. Elite QBs can compensate for winds to an extent, though Brady will always have the advantage in the stadium where he practices but Manning only visits one week/year. But when you put a little extra on a ball because of a 10 mph wind only to have it suddenly turn into a 25 mph wind, it's still an underthrow, and there's now way to predict or prevent that. Short low throws can mitigate, but never truly eliminate it, and long EVERY long ball is flirting with disaster.

It sounds like conditions will be as bad or worse as last year, Mannings only truly bad game all season, so it makes sense to approach it the same way: Run the legs off our starting RB (who seems to have licked his fumbling problem) and spell him with a much better backup than he was last year. That would make sense anyway: We're facing a D that's #2 in passing yds/gm and #8 in passing yds/att, but only 25th in rushing yds/gm AND per-attempt. THEY have no choice but to pass, especially since our roster's healthier and far more talented: WE have a choice, and hopefully make the right one again.

Simple Jaded
11-01-2014, 06:01 AM
Clint Eastwood wouldn't be nervous.

"Dyin ain't much of a livin, boy"

spikerman
11-01-2014, 10:47 AM
I was at the playoff game against SD last year and it was very windy. I was concerned too, but it really didn't seem to affect Manning all that much.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-01-2014, 11:09 AM
Tight end Julius Thomas talks about what the offense focused on all week and the significance of Sunday's game against the Patriots.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Hotel-report-with-Julius-Thomas/da1ba132-a71a-4a6c-98f4-c88934a03dab

Runamok
11-01-2014, 12:15 PM
Tight end Julius Thomas talks about what the offense focused on all week and the significance of Sunday's game against the Patriots.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Hotel-report-with-Julius-Thomas/da1ba132-a71a-4a6c-98f4-c88934a03dab


A very, very well-spoken guy.

Runamok
11-01-2014, 12:40 PM
The gusts up to 35 mph concern me more than the general 15 mph winds forecast. Elite QBs can compensate for winds to an extent, though Brady will always have the advantage in the stadium where he practices but Manning only visits one week/year. But when you put a little extra on a ball because of a 10 mph wind only to have it suddenly turn into a 25 mph wind, it's still an underthrow, and there's now way to predict or prevent that. Short low throws can mitigate, but never truly eliminate it, and long EVERY long ball is flirting with disaster.

It sounds like conditions will be as bad or worse as last year, Mannings only truly bad game all season, so it makes sense to approach it the same way: Run the legs off our starting RB (who seems to have licked his fumbling problem) and spell him with a much better backup than he was last year. That would make sense anyway: We're facing a D that's #2 in passing yds/gm and #8 in passing yds/att, but only 25th in rushing yds/gm AND per-attempt. THEY have no choice but to pass, especially since our roster's healthier and far more talented: WE have a choice, and hopefully make the right one again.

'Bout time you came down to earth, Joel.

Love to sit at your table and feed off of all your optimism this week, but the weather factor is a huge issue. It's shaping up to be atrocious, but one of these QBs seems to have a history of being, inexplicably, unaffected by it. And the one I'm referring to didn't matriculate at UTenn.

Last year Denver was also the better team on paper, was spotted 24 points in the first quarter as a result of three turnovers in the Patriots end of the field, and ran the ball for 280 yards, and yet came up short.

Meanwhile NE, at home, in deplorable conditions, with the entire middle of their defense out with injury, came out in the second half and took the lead and ultimately the game with 5 straight scores. If there is a better foul weather QB than Brady, I haven't seen him. Brady seemed totally unaffected by the conditions, while Peyton struggled mightily.

Have you forgotton these stats...
Manning 19/36, 150 yards, 2 TDs and a pick
Brady 34/50, 344 yards, 3 TDs and 0 picks.

Who throws 50 passes in those conditions, but Brady. Seen him do it in that kind of wind and swirling, blinding snow against the Bears a few years ago.

So yeah, weather will be a big factor. Not HFA, not #1 or #2 pass defense. Weather.

And yes, you should be worried. Under good weather conditions, I'd pick the Broncos. But under the forecasted conditions, I'm leaning towards NE.

Joel
11-01-2014, 02:41 PM
You answered your own question: Who throws 50 times in strong unpredictable gusts? A guy down 3 scores with a hollow D and NO run game. Sure, Brady plays better in awful weather than anyone outside GB, but NO ONE throws that much in conditions that bad if they have a CHOICE: Brady didn't, and still doesn't. But our D's a lot better than a year ago; it was better when we held them to just 16 pts in last years AFCCG, but is MUCH better now. It's been a while since Manning played every home game in a dome, but he doesn't have to win this singlehanded as Brady does: We can tear into that awful run D yet again.

Bear in mind that, as badly as Manning played @NE last year, it still took fumbles by Hillman AND Anderson just for NE to get back in it, let alone win at the end of regulation on Welkers fumble. Losing Big Vick (who was playing Porkchops role well until NE dislocated his hip) and our #1 CB was hard to overcome, but we did so by the end of regulation, and shut down Brady cold throughout the 5th qtr: After they spent the whole second half on a rally, Welkers fumble's the only reason that game didn't go into the books as a tie—and Morenos bruised bone at the end of regulation's the only reason we didn't win it BEFORE OT.

The whole point here is that, for one of the few times in his career, Manning doesn't have to do it alone; Brady DOES, to a great extent: He has Gronk and a good secondary, but we have a darned good receiving TE and BETTER secondary, and totally outclass NE at WR, RB, on run D and probably even on the offensive line. If we lose, it won't be because of weather or stats, but because we weren't mentally ready for a team that's always ready. Hillman and Thompson must realize NE will be going for strips, and Talib and Moore must realize preventing catches is more important than making Ints.

There's no guarantee NE or its weather shuts down Manning, but if the rest of this team does the job it's capable of and neither our players nor coaches let Belicheat in their heads, Mannings play won't matter.

tripp
11-01-2014, 02:43 PM
'Bout time you came down to earth, Joel.

Love to sit at your table and feed off of all your optimism this week, but the weather factor is a huge issue. It's shaping up to be atrocious, but one of these QBs seems to have a history of being, inexplicably, unaffected by it. And the one I'm referring to didn't matriculate at UTenn.

Last year Denver was also the better team on paper, was spotted 24 points in the first quarter as a result of three turnovers in the Patriots end of the field, and ran the ball for 280 yards, and yet came up short.

Meanwhile NE, at home, in deplorable conditions, with the entire middle of their defense out with injury, came out in the second half and took the lead and ultimately the game with 5 straight scores. If there is a better foul weather QB than Brady, I haven't seen him. Brady seemed totally unaffected by the conditions, while Peyton struggled mightily.

Have you forgotton these stats...
Manning 19/36, 150 yards, 2 TDs and a pick
Brady 34/50, 344 yards, 3 TDs and 0 picks.

Who throws 50 passes in those conditions, but Brady. Seen him do it in that kind of wind and swirling, blinding snow against the Bears a few years ago.

So yeah, weather will be a big factor. Not HFA, not #1 or #2 pass defense. Weather.

And yes, you should be worried. Under good weather conditions, I'd pick the Broncos. But under the forecasted conditions, I'm leaning towards NE.


That's all fine and dandy Brady throwing for 3 TDs and 344 yards in that weather, however, we were up 24-0 going into the half. The defence slacked off considerably, and what killed us was the turn overs. If we didn't turn the ball over against the Pats last year, the Broncos win, and people wouldn't be over looking the Broncos as they are now. Not because Brady is a god like in this weather.

Slick
11-01-2014, 02:52 PM
That's all fine and dandy Brady throwing for 3 TDs and 344 yards in that weather, however, we were up 24-0 going into the half. The defence slacked off considerably, and what killed us was the turn overs. If we didn't turn the ball over against the Pats last year, the Broncos win, and people wouldn't be over looking the Broncos as they are now. Not because Brady is a god like in this weather.

Denver benefited from New England turnovers in the first half too. I think some of us have forgotten that.

Joel
11-01-2014, 03:25 PM
Denver benefited from New England turnovers in the first half too. I think some of us have forgotten that.
That's certainly true, but NE climbing back into the game after that had less to do with 1 Manning turnover than with our OTHER THREE, just as Bradys many second half scores had as much to do with our many turnovers and the absence of DRC and Vickerson as it did anything Brady did. Except for one second half drive, Manning had an indisputably awful game and Brady a fine one, but boiling that game down to "Brady outplayed Manning" is simply inaccurate, with or without meteorological caveats.

Runamok
11-01-2014, 03:43 PM
You answered your own question: Who throws 50 times in strong unpredictable gusts? A guy down 3 scores with a hollow D and NO run game. Sure, Brady plays better in awful weather than anyone outside GB, but NO ONE throws that much in conditions that bad if they have a CHOICE: Brady didn't, and still doesn't. But our D's a lot better than a year ago; it was better when we held them to just 16 pts in last years AFCCG, but is MUCH better now. It's been a while since Manning played every home game in a dome, but he doesn't have to win this singlehanded as Brady does: We can tear into that awful run D yet again.

Bear in mind that, as badly as Manning played @NE last year, it still took fumbles by Hillman AND Anderson just for NE to get back in it, let alone win at the end of regulation on Welkers fumble. Losing Big Vick (who was playing Porkchops role well until NE dislocated his hip) and our #1 CB was hard to overcome, but we did so by the end of regulation, and shut down Brady cold throughout the 5th qtr: After they spent the whole second half on a rally, Welkers fumble's the only reason that game didn't go into the books as a tie—and Morenos bruised bone at the end of regulation's the only reason we didn't win it BEFORE OT.

The whole point here is that, for one of the few times in his career, Manning doesn't have to do it alone; Brady DOES, to a great extent: He has Gronk and a good secondary, but we have a darned good receiving TE and BETTER secondary, and totally outclass NE at WR, RB, on run D and probably even on the offensive line. If we lose, it won't be because of weather or stats, but because we weren't mentally ready for a team that's always ready. Hillman and Thompson must realize NE will be going for strips, and Talib and Moore must realize preventing catches is more important than making Ints.

There's no guarantee NE or its weather shuts down Manning, but if the rest of this team does the job it's capable of and neither our players nor coaches let Belicheat in their heads, Mannings play won't matter.

I think you have been discounting the improvements that the patsies have made and are concentrating too much on just the improvements in Denver. NE is much better this year, as well, from what I've seen.

Their pass defense was a sieve last year, and the year before that. Now they're #1 or #2 and are shutting people down, without any help from the elements, which they may get tomorrow. I am concerned that those two things combined could shut Peyton down completely. But you're not the least bit concerned? Really?

NE is also far better so far in the take-away differential. Do you think the Broncos can count on them coughing the ball up 3 times? Brady hasn't thrown a pick in 4 weeks. Maybe he's due. Is that what you think we can count on?

Sure, Denver can probably run against them. So what? They ran for almost three hundred yards last year. But that didn't determine the game.

That game hinged on the fact that Manning couldn't get it done because of the weather. He was almost completely shackled by the adverse elements. If you don't want to accept that from me, just ask yourself why a guy who had his team go for a 4th and two from their own 28 yard line with a four point lead, rather than punt the ball to Manning's offense a few years back, would ever decide to win the coin flip and give him the ball last year, if not for the fact that Belichick knew he couldn't move the ball in those conditions.

There's plenty of reason to be concerned this week. But that's not to say it will automatically end badly. Looking forward to watching a classic battle.

Runamok
11-01-2014, 03:53 PM
That's certainly true, but NE climbing back into the game after that had less to do with 1 Manning turnover than with our OTHER THREE, just as Bradys many second half scores had as much to do with our many turnovers and the absence of DRC and Vickerson as it did anything Brady did. Except for one second half drive, Manning had an indisputably awful game and Brady a fine one, but boiling that game down to "Brady outplayed Manning" is simply inaccurate, with or without meteorological caveats.

You completely miss the point here, Joel.

Forget the TOs and who benefitted from them the most. Look at the QB lines again and ask yourself whether Peyton struggled or not, while Brady flourished, or at least played as he was totally unaffected by the same elements that reduced Peyton to mediocrity, at best.

It's just as simple as this.
Peyton 52% completion rate = well below his career average.
Brady 68% completion rate = better than his average.

And you think weather was not the single most important factor in that matchup, and won't be again, in all likelihood?

Runamok
11-01-2014, 03:56 PM
Sorry guys, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I am a cautious and sober sort of person and hate to see the chickens counted before the hatch.

Runamok
11-01-2014, 04:06 PM
That's all fine and dandy Brady throwing for 3 TDs and 344 yards in that weather, however, we were up 24-0 going into the half. The defence slacked off considerably, and what killed us was the turn overs. If we didn't turn the ball over against the Pats last year, the Broncos win, and people wouldn't be over looking the Broncos as they are now. Not because Brady is a god like in this weather.

Fine.

And if NE didn't turn the ball over like they did, and Denver didn't get the short field, what makes you think the Broncos win that game?

Sure, they may have, but you can't pull a woulda, coulda, shoulda when talking about the Broncos TOs , and then completely ignore the uncharacteristic NE TOs, can you?

Ziggy
11-01-2014, 04:12 PM
The Broncos are a far more talented team than the Pats. It took a couple of freak things for the Pats to win last year in NE. This team is much better than that one. Denver by 10 or more.

Nomad
11-01-2014, 04:28 PM
Just win the game, BRONCOS! Don't shit the bed like last year....TIA:)

Joel
11-01-2014, 04:30 PM
I think you have been discounting the improvements that the patsies have made and are concentrating too much on just the improvements in Denver. NE is much better this year, as well, from what I've seen.

Their pass defense was a sieve last year, and the year before that. Now they're #1 or #2 and are shutting people down, without any help from the elements, which they may get tomorrow.
They're #2 in yds/gm, but just #8 in yds/att: WE'RE #2 in that. Their pass D was hardly "a sieve" last year; 11th least passing yds/gm isn't as good as #2, but still pretty good, especially when forcing opponents to play catch up so much the D faces the 9th most passing atts/gm. It's the same way we've allowed the 2nd least passing yds/att but the 17th most passing yds/gm: Because we've faced more pass atts/gm than anyone but Cincy. Then as now, NE had Dennard, Arrington, Chung and McCourt; the only difference is now they have Revis instead of Talib and Akeem Ayers instead of Mayo.

I don't think that a net improvement, whatever stats they racked up beating air powers like the Jets, Oakland, Minnesota and Chicago while we were beating Andrew Luck and Phillip Rivers. We have Miller, Ware, Wolfe/Jackson and Knighton to their Hightower, Ninkovich and Wilfork. We have Marshall and Irving to their Collins and Ayers. How could that matchup NOT favor us?


I am concerned that those two things combined could shut Peyton down completely. But you're not the least bit concerned? Really?
I'm concerned, but it's far from my major concern because, once again, Manning doesn't have to win this game alone, but Brady DOES.


NE is also far better so far in the take-away differential. Do you think the Broncos can count on them coughing the ball up 3 times? Brady hasn't thrown a pick in 4 weeks. Maybe he's due. Is that what you think we can count on?
I'm less concerned they may not cough it up as much last year than that we may cough it up just as much; I'll be watching Hillman closely to see if he looks as reliable as the last couple games or more like the guy who fumbled away last years NE (and Indy) games. But since Manning only committed ONE of our 4 NE turnovers last year, he's not my concern there.


Sure, Denver can probably run against them. So what? They ran for almost three hundred yards last year. But that didn't determine the game.

That game hinged on the fact that Manning couldn't get it done because of the weather. He was almost completely shackled by the adverse elements. If you don't want to accept that from me, just ask yourself why a guy who had his team go for a 4th and two from their own 28 yard line with a four point lead, rather than punt the ball to Manning's offense a few years back, would ever decide to win the coin flip and give him the ball last year, if not for the fact that he couldn't move the ball in those conditions.
Mannings underperformance and even Bradys solid performance were almost INCIDENTAL to that game: It hinged on TURNOVERS, all but two by Broncos/Pats RBs or WRs. That's how we jumped out to a 24-0 lead, how they climbed back and compelled Mannings sole good drive to force OT, and why we lost what probably would've been the final drive of a tie game. Tom Terrific WASN'T the last two periods: We figured out how to overcome losing our best CB and starting NT and shut down NE, so they needed punt muffed in FG range to win even with our starting RB hurt and his backups fumbling, too.


There's plenty of reason to be concerned this week. But that's not to say it will automatically end badly. Looking forward to watching a classic battle.
There's ample cause for concern on BOTH sides, but the homefield weather and pscyhological edge will have to be pretty monstrous to overcome Denvers huge talent advantage.

Joel
11-01-2014, 04:31 PM
Look, the biggest theme of Manning vs. Brady has ALWAYS been that an elite QB+elite team>elite QB+scrubs. There's no reason to think that changes tomorrow, and much reason to think the same old pattern (which covers far more than just two teams over a decade) continues to hold. As much as I loathe Belicheat, I think the common criticism he'd be nothing without Brady could be backward: There's also no reason to think he couldn't have done as much or more if he'd kept Bledsoe instead of applying "the Patriot Way" to dumping a #1 overall pick for a MUCH cheaper but fine 6th round scrub.

Runamok
11-01-2014, 04:39 PM
Look, the biggest theme of Manning vs. Brady has ALWAYS been that an elite QB+elite team>elite QB+scrubs. There's no reason to think that changes tomorrow, and much reason to think the same old pattern (which covers far more than just two teams over a decade) continues to hold. As much as I loathe Belicheat, I think the common criticism he'd be nothing without Brady could be backward: There's also no reason to think he couldn't have done as much or more if he'd kept Bledsoe instead of applying "the Patriot Way" to dumping a #1 overall pick for a MUCH cheaper but fine 6th round scrub.

I can tell your argument is falling apart when you have to rely on reducing Brady to a "sixth-round scrub".

Joel
11-01-2014, 04:44 PM
You completely miss the point here, Joel.
I got the point: I simply disputed it, with significant contradicting evidence.


Forget the TOs and who benefitted from them the most.
That's not possible, because the turnovers produced:

1) Our huge halftime lead,
2) NEs huge 3rd qtr comeback and
3) NEs game-winning OT FG.

The QBs were almost entirely incidental to that, except in that even a slightly below average Manning probably leads 28-0 at halftime and wins in regulation instead of settling for a FG with 1st and G at the 5. On the other hand, a completely useless Manning doesn't lead the 13 play 80 yd TD drive to tie the game at the end of the 4th and force OT.


Look at the QB lines again and ask yourself whether Peyton struggled or not, while Brady flourished, or at least played as he was totally unaffected by the same elements that reduced Peyton to mediocrity, at best.
"Mediocrity" is being kind, but even with Manning playing like Orton we ran all over them, the D forced 3 turnovers for 17 pts and we shutdown Tom Terrific for 3½ of 5 periods. We didn't NEED Manning to win that game: All we needed was for Morenos backups to HOLD ONTO THE BALL after he got a bone bruise running 37 times for >6 yds/att. If Welker had HELD ONTO THE BALL we STILL tie. Despite everything Brady did and Manning didn't. Manning only scored 7 of our 31 pts, and Brady only scored 14 of their 34; neither QBs nor weather were the deciding factor: They beat us 4 turnovers to 3.


And you think weather was not the single most important factor in that matchup, and won't be again, in all likelihood?
Correct.

7DnBrnc53
11-01-2014, 04:52 PM
Look, the biggest theme of Manning vs. Brady has ALWAYS been that an elite QB+elite team>elite QB+scrubs. There's no reason to think that changes tomorrow, and much reason to think the same old pattern (which covers far more than just two teams over a decade) continues to hold. As much as I loathe Belicheat, I think the common criticism he'd be nothing without Brady could be backward: There's also no reason to think he couldn't have done as much or more if he'd kept Bledsoe instead of applying "the Patriot Way" to dumping a #1 overall pick for a MUCH cheaper but fine 6th round scrub.

I agree, Joel. I think that Belichick (and Ernie Adams' alternate radio frequency) has a lot to do with Brady's success, and Bill could have had just as much success if, for example, Bledsoe stays healthy, and they draft LT instead of Seymour in the 01 draft.

However, I think that Bill liked Brady because he didn't believe in stars. He wanted cogs in a machine. I think that stems from his days with the Giants, where Lawrence Taylor got special treatment from Parcells. Belicheat hated that.

I believe that Bledsoe was gone once Brady got the Pats into the postseason. It didn't matter if they won the SB or not.

Joel
11-01-2014, 04:56 PM
I can tell your argument is falling apart when you have to rely on reducing Brady to a "sixth-round scrub".
Every team in the league passed on him 6 times: New England not only took him in the 6th, but with a COMPENSATORY pick; he was practically a 7th rounder. That's one step from UDFA. It's not like the Pats hadn't had success with the #1 overall pick starting for them; he'd taken them to the SB just 4 years earlier, and they hadn't had a losing season since. When they lost Brady for the year in the first game of '08, they still finished 11-5 with a starting QB who's never been able to keep a BACKUP job anywhere else. All because Belichick built a great TEAM of which Brady was just one of 53 parts.

Does anyone really think Brady could've gone to Mannings defenseless Colts and annually won a dozen or more games for a decade? The Pats went from 16 wins to 11 without Brady, which is a big drop—but Indy went from 10 wins to 2 without Manning, which is a drop so big it's the difference between "division champs" and "#1 overall pick." I think Belicheat will be just fine after Brady, but don't be surprised if the day Brady leaves NE is the day he retires. Don't get me wrong, he's a very good and likely elite QB—but anywhere else he might very well just be very good.

Valar Morghulis
11-01-2014, 05:00 PM
Joel - you seem to study football and i like a lot of your posts.

But Brady is a class qb - his draft status is irrelvant, talent is talent, He as a starting qb for Michigan, scrubs do not qb for them. The scouting system is not foolproof.

Look at Terrell Davis and Alfred Moriss - or Ryan Leaf, Tebow, JaMarcuss Russell or any other number of busts

Joel
11-01-2014, 05:08 PM
Frankly, using radios AT ALL is wrong, IMHO; it's an idea so old it was BANNED COMPLETELY in the mid-fifties after the Browns tried it, under Section E, Article X of Prohibited Conduct:

No club, nor any coach, representative or employee thereof, shall use or employ any mechanical or other equipment or device in connection with the staging or playing of any game....
There was nothing wrong with that; Thorpe and Baugh didn't need radios to overcome crowd noise during playcalls, so why should any modern QB? Be professionals: EARN your massive pay.


However, I think that Bill liked Brady because he didn't believe in stars. He wanted cogs in a machine. I think that stems from his days with the Giants, where Lawrence Taylor got special treatment from Parcells. Belicheat hated that.
That's the core of it: The Patriot Way started with starting a 6th round comp pick earning rookie minimum and cutting a #1 overall pick cratering the cap. The Pats would've lacked many of their "championship" teams critical cogs if they'd had to find a way to keep paying Bledsoe each year.


I believe that Bledsoe was gone once Brady got the Pats into the postseason. It didn't matter if they won the SB or not.
Yup, because he didn't have to be great, just good ENOUGH to be one of many parts in a great ensemble. In a perverse sense, the team was actually better off with many pretty good guys than a few elite ones, because the total cap hit's about the same, but QBs can't cover RBs in the flat and pass rushers can't catch a Hail Mary.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-01-2014, 05:08 PM
Denver Broncos @Broncos · 23m

Catch this Mid'd Up segment with @BossWard43 after the #Broncos' win against the @Chargers? http://dbron.co/56k


Denver Broncos @Broncos · 1h

.@Millerlite40 vs. Nate Solder one key matchup in tomorrow’s #DENvsNE showdown. http://dbron.co/57t

Joel
11-01-2014, 05:11 PM
Joel - you seem to study football and i like a lot of your posts.

But Brady is a class qb - his draft status is irrelvant, talent is talent, He as a starting qb for Michigan, scrubs do not qb for them. The scouting system is not foolproof.

Look at Terrell Davis and Alfred Moriss - or Ryan Leaf, Tebow, JaMarcuss Russell or any other number of busts
It's not that Brady IS a scrub (he's at least very VERY good, and probably elite) but that he GRADED OUT as one when Belicheat gave him the keys. And much of that was the "team>stars" mentality that's given NE such heavy cap innoculation ever since. No one with a #1 overall pick in his prime and playing up to his draft position would spend a 6th round COMPENSATORY pick on someone to replace him the same season—except maybe Belicheat, because he looks at the big picture in terms of both the whole roster and the teams multi-year cap position. So he routinely replaces Pro Bowlers with nobodies.

Brady would be good anywhere; EVERY teams scouts (including NEs) flat out blew that one multiple times. But would he be BRADY somewhere else, the eternal yin to Mannings yang, or just somewhere between Carson Palmer/Phillip Rivers status? My bet is the latter; it's simply not logical to expect he'd duplicate all the same success he had with great teams around him if he LACKED that supporting cast.

Joel
11-01-2014, 05:19 PM
.@Millerlite40 vs. Nate Solder one key matchup in tomorrow’s #DENvsNE showdown. http://dbron.co/57t
That's been a key matchup since they were rookies; nearly every Denver fan expects Miller to dominate every time, so is always outraged because Solder's shut down Miller every time. Ware on Vollmer (also an excellent OT) is at least as big though. I hope we run lots of stunts at NEs vastly inferior offensive linemen, both to give Miller, Ware and Wolfe/Jackson true mismatches inside, and take advantage of Knighton forcing double teams from subpar guards. Remember, in our base 4-3, Von Miller can line up and rush from ANYWHERE; he's not obligated to go at Solder nor anyone else.

An occasional blitz from Ward inside might work, too, but I hope we don't make a habit of it against Brady. My general rule would be "rush 4-5 and trust your excellent coverage DBs & LBs to do their job."

Nomad
11-01-2014, 05:19 PM
I wish I had Joel's memory.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-01-2014, 06:45 PM
The Denver Broncos visit the New England Patriots in the regular season for the third straight year. As usual, it’s one of the most highly anticipated games on the NFL schedule.

Why three regular-season matchups in a row in New England? It’s simply a result of the league’s rotating scheduling format.

And that rotation would call for the teams to meet again next year should they finish in the same spot in the division standings this season, a game that would be played in Denver.

Sunday’s game will mark the 16th time that quarterbacks Tom Brady and Peyton Manning square off against each other, with Brady holding a 10-5 edge. According to Elias Sports Bureau research, this marks the first matchup in NFL history among opposing starting quarterbacks who had at least 150 career regular-season wins entering the game.

rest - plus video http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4771271/broncos-vs-patriots-preview

WTE
11-01-2014, 07:13 PM
LOL @ Joel in this thread. Didn't read a word. Just rapidly scrolled by all the time and energy he wasted with his extensive responses.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-01-2014, 07:38 PM
Mark Haas @markhaastv · 2h

Cold and rainy at Gillette Stadium tonight. #Broncos #Patriots @ Gillette Stadium http://instagram.com/p/u3_Au2J0q5/

Mark Haas @markhaastv · 2h

43 and raining at Gillette. This will be about start of 2nd half tomorrow.

WTE
11-01-2014, 07:43 PM
Mark Haas @markhaastv · 2h

Cold and rainy at Gillette Stadium tonight. #Broncos #Patriots @ Gillette Stadium http://instagram.com/p/u3_Au2J0q5/

Mark Haas @markhaastv · 2h

43 and raining at Gillette. This will be about start of 2nd half tomorrow.

Windy too Carol.

#WoundedDuckAgainstTheWind

Denver Native (Carol)
11-01-2014, 08:50 PM
Windy too Carol.

#WoundedDuckAgainstTheWind

Sorry to hear that about Brady.

Nomad
11-01-2014, 09:01 PM
Windy too Carol.

#WoundedDuckAgainstTheWind

I love the BRONCOS, but this is funny. We all know Manning throws the best wounded ducks:lol:.....but he's the best at it.;)

underrated29
11-02-2014, 12:02 AM
What's better is that manning and his Ducks will beat Brady and his impervious cold weather skills.

Joel
11-02-2014, 12:05 AM
What's better is that manning and his Ducks will beat Brady and his impervious cold weather skills.
What's best is the wind may be so strong Brady's not so impervious either, but we should be able to run and STOP the run well enough the QBs could end up a non-story.

Simple Jaded
11-02-2014, 12:32 AM
With all the good luck the PAtritos have had its a wonder they've only won 3 SB's, oh well, maybe the weather will be better when Denver inenevitably plays in NE again next year. And the year after that. And the year after that.

#glitchintheschedulingprocess

VonDoom
11-02-2014, 07:07 AM
With all the good luck the PAtritos have had its a wonder they've only won 3 SB's, oh well, maybe the weather will be better when Denver inenevitably plays in NE again next year. And the year after that. And the year after that.

#glitchintheschedulingprocess

If we both win our divisions (which is looking very likely at this point), we will play them IN DENVER in 2015. Ditto for 2016. Regardless of position, we will play them in Denver in 2017 when we play the AFC East again. It's not a conspiracy.

TXBRONC
11-02-2014, 09:13 AM
I'd rather see snow game than a cold, windy rain game for Manning.

Last season's AFCCG had high winds but it didn't effect Manning's passes. Most of that record was accumulated of Manning's in cold weather was when he played for the Colts where at least have of his games were played under a dome. Now he plays most of games outside. I don't put much stock in this weather thing.

tomjonesrocks
11-02-2014, 09:31 AM
5975

5976

5977

Nomad
11-02-2014, 09:52 AM
Last season's AFCCG had high winds but it didn't effect Manning's passes. Most of that record was accumulated of Manning's in cold weather was when he played for the Colts where at least have of his games were played under a dome. Now he plays most of games outside. I don't put much stock in this weather thing.

It's more of the cold rain you want to avoid. The wind only adds to the misery.

tripp
11-02-2014, 12:08 PM
White out in Foxboro at the moment. Snow supposed to stop by game time though. No excuses.

broncosinindy
11-02-2014, 12:20 PM
Fire it up! Statement game.