Brady contemplating the possibility of leaving the Patriots

[Northman]

Apparently all is not well in NE. Guess it will come down to who's ego is bigger, Brady's or BB's.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/11646779/tension-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-impact-quarterback-future-team


Tension exists between Tom Brady (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/2330/tom-brady) and the New England Patriots (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/ne/new-england-patriots)' coaching staff, and multiple sources told ESPN that they believe it could influence whether the quarterback finishes his career with the team that he has led to three Super Bowl titles.


Two sources told ESPN that former rookie quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/16760/jimmy-garoppolo) was drafted as Brady's successor and the move could happen "sooner than later." No source suggested that "sooner" would mean a change during the 2014 season.
[+] Enlargehttp://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/0929/nfl_g_brady_300x200.jpg (http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/0929/nfl_g_brady_600x400.jpg)



Much of Brady's frustration relates to the downsizing of the Patriots offense that stems from questionable personnel decisions and the retirement of longtime line coach Dante Scarnecchia after the 2013 season, the sources told ESPN.


With Pro Bowl guard Logan Mankins (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8446/logan-mankins) being traded before the season, the line now coached by Dave DeGuglielmo is so inexperienced that Brady's input into game plans, personnel groups and pre-snap adjustments has significantly diminished.


One team source told ESPN that a conservative approach is necessary and said everyone needs to be patient to allow the team and staff to get on the same page. Brady's declining performance also has been cited internally, a source told ESPN.

[Davii]

Could be completely accurate. I honestly don't see it though. I just don't see the Patriots sitting Brady unless it's completely obvious he's done, and I reallY can't see Brady asking out. Crazy that it even comes to rumours like this though. I mean, as much as we talk shit, the guy is a first ballot no questions asked without a shred of doubt first ballot hall of famer. Stranger things have happened, Brett Farve, but that was a long drawn out crazy episode over a couple years of Brett's ego being held over the franchise.

In short, this would surprise me, and I would lose what miniscule amount of respect I have for that franchise were they to force out Brady.

[Nomad]

All good things eventually comes to an end, and the Patriots are at their end.

[PatriotsGuy]

All good things eventually comes to an end, and the Patriots are at their end.

Doomed even

[aberdien]

Doomed even

Would you root for the Broncos if Tom became our QB?

[Davii]

Doomed even

I wouldn't say doomed per se. Although I'd love to see it honestly.

[PatriotsGuy]

Would you root for the Broncos if Tom became our QB?

No way on God's green earth

[Davii]

Would you root for the Broncos if Tom became our QB?

Abe, please delete that post. TIA

[PatriotsGuy]

Who thought that this Old Spice robot thing was a good idea ? Worst commercials ever.

[Nomad]

Who thought that this Old Spice robot thing was a good idea ? Worst commercials ever.

Old Spice has all those weird commercials.

[PatriotsGuy]

Old Spice has all those weird commercials.

They suck!

[MOtorboat]

Who thought that this Old Spice robot thing was a good idea ? Worst commercials ever.


Old Spice has all those weird commercials.


They suck!

I see what you did there, PAGs.

[WTE]

“Old Spice! Take a look what you’ve done. You’ve made a sexy man right out of my son.

Old Spice!”

[Joel]

Not even Brady's immune to the Patriot Way (it's kinda how he got the job in the first place.) Good luck finding ANOTHER Pro Bowl QB 28 teams passed on TWICE; getting lucky with Brady was just that and no more. Remember when the nations media convinced Shanahan he could turn ANYONE into a 1000 yd rusher? Broncos fans are still trying to forget how well that worked with Tatum and Mike Bell.... :(

[PatriotsGuy]

Not even Brady's immune to the Patriot Way (it's kinda how he got the job in the first place.) Good luck finding ANOTHER Pro Bowl QB 28 teams passed on TWICE; getting lucky with Brady was just that and no more. Remember when the nations media convinced Shanahan he could turn ANYONE into a 1000 yd rusher? Broncos fans are still trying to forget how well that worked with Tatum and Mike Bell.... :(

And good luck to Denver when Manning is gone. It is what it is

[Nomad]

“Old Spice! Take a look what you’ve done. You’ve made a sexy man right out of my son.

Old Spice!”

You know you like Terry Crews pecs move up and down:lol:

[Davii]

Not even Brady's immune to the Patriot Way (it's kinda how he got the job in the first place.) Good luck finding ANOTHER Pro Bowl QB 28 teams passed on TWICE; getting lucky with Brady was just that and no more. Remember when the nations media convinced Shanahan he could turn ANYONE into a 1000 yd rusher? Broncos fans are still trying to forget how well that worked with Tatum and Mike Bell.... :(

He was a 6th Rd pick Joel. He was passed more than twice...

[Joel]

And good luck to Denver when Manning is gone. It is what it is
I'm not allowed to say that first part anymore. ;)

[Joel]

He was a 6th Rd pick Joel. He was passed more than twice...
Right, I know, but Janeane Garofalo was a 2nd rounder, so EVERYONE (including NE) passed once, and since NE lost the AFCCG NEARLY everyone passed AGAIN before they got him.

[WTE]

Right, I know, but Janeane Garofalo was a 2nd rounder, so EVERYONE (including NE) passed once, and since NE lost the AFCCG NEARLY everyone passed AGAIN before they got him.

Your Garofalo reference wasn't funny the 1st time you said it.

[Bronco9798]

No news here.

[Joel]

Your Garofalo reference wasn't funny the 1st time you said it.
EVERYTHING about this is funny. The best part will be when Giselle jumps out of the stands and beats the crap out of Belicheat. :)

[Slick]

The Patriots suck!

[ShaneFalco]

maybe they should just go back to cheating.

[Davii]

maybe they should just go back to cheating.

You "go back" as if they stopped....

[PatriotsGuy]

Is this the smack forum :confused:

[Nomad]

I thought we were talking Old Spice.

[Slick]

Is this the smack forum :confused:

The Patriots suck!

[WTE]

Is this the smack forum :confused:

Let me check the BF Unwritten Rule Book if this is allowed.

brb.

[WTE]

OK, this thread has now been moved to Smack in a covert operation.

[ShaneFalco]

Every forum is the smack forum when talking about the Cheatriots.

[PatriotsGuy]

Every forum is the smack forum when talking about the Cheatriots.

Doi doi doi you r smart

[WTE]

Dobson active. The guy Carol tried trolling with her inaccurate report.

[ShaneFalco]

Doi doi doi you r smart

My mom always told me so.

[Slick]

Go Bengals!

[WTE]

Go Bengals!

Mexico Sucks!!!

[Slick]

Mexico Sucks!!!

It pretty much does.

[PatriotsGuy]

My mom always told me so.

1997* 1998*

[Slick]

You guys are like two wounded animals.

[MOtorboat]

1997* 1998*

45-10

[WTE]

1997* 1998*

That's a long time ago for a Championship*


#Circumvent

[CrazyHorse]

That's a long time ago for a Championship*


#Circumvent

So is 2004.

I'd like to see Brady finish his career with the Jets.

[PatriotsGuy]

You guys are like two wounded animals.

I was the one that said my team sucked. Mo thought it was some kind of mojo

[ShaneFalco]

1997* 1998*

2001*??
http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/17/roger-goodell-spygate-ray-rice-arlen-specter

[WTE]

So is 2004.



I prefer to think of it as 2005.

[Slick]

I was the one that said my team sucked. Mo thought it was some kind of mojo

Mo is funny like that.

[PatriotsGuy]

2001*??
http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/17/roger-goodell-spygate-ray-rice-arlen-specter

Cheating is cheating http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

[MOtorboat]

Mo is funny like that.

He was trying to jinx them into a win.

It's real.

[ShaneFalco]

Cheating is cheating http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

from the article you just posted.


"These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

Yup. Thats totally up there with videotaping teams hand signals and audibles to give an edge in the SB.

Building a football stadium versus Cheating to win a ring. Hard choice of whats worse.

[WTE]

Cheating is cheating http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

Holy crap!! Denver cheated the salary cap twice???

[Slick]

He was trying to jinx them into a win.

It's real.

Meh, if only it were that easy.

[WTE]

Building a football stadium versus Cheating to win a ring. Hard choice of whats worse.

Pags can you name a river in Egypt?

[ShaneFalco]

dont get mad when your own articles prove how bad the pats are compared to other legitimate teams.

[WTE]

dont get mad when your own articles prove how bad the pats are compared to other legitimate teams.

Don't bogart that joint, my friend.

[PatriotsGuy]

from the article you just posted.

Yup. Thats totally up there with videotaping teams hand signals and audibles to give an edge in the SB.

Building a football stadium versus Cheating to win a ring. Hard choice of whats worse.

Big fines and loss of draft pick? Methinks the NFL disagrees with you.

[ShaneFalco]

You assume i care what Goodell and the NFL thinks.

[ShaneFalco]

Ask any real football fan outside of Boston. They will tell you what is worse.

[Dapper Dan]

Doomed even

I read this in the Funky Phantom voice.

[VonDoom]

Seems crazy after that dismantling of the Bengals, but Barnwell has an interesting article up this morning on the possibility of the Patriots moving on from Brady:


Here’s the big problem for the Patriots. If he’s still on the roster during Week 17 of this season, those salaries become fully guaranteed, adding $24 million to the value of Brady’s contract. When the Patriots agreed to the terms of this deal, they were happy to offer that guarantee because it was unlikely Brady would ever play anywhere else. He’d either play through the end of the contract at a team-friendly rate of $8 million in salary per year or retire, in which case the guaranteed salaries are wiped off the books.

and



Or there’s one other thing they could do. If the Patriots think Brady’s not in their future and that he won’t retire, they could — and I would never even mention this if New England wasn’t Belichick’s team — trade him before the October 28 trade deadline. It’s the only chance the Patriots will have until 2017 to deal Brady and get serious assets back in return without eating an enormous, franchise-altering cap penalty.

If the Patriots traded Brady this month, you have to assume it would basically lay their 2014 season to rest. It would be, however, the cheapest way to move on from Brady. In 2015, they would owe $18 million in prorated bonuses as dead money, but after that, they wouldn’t owe another dime. The $18 million is a sunk cost. What an October trade would do is save them $24 million in both real money and cap space over the next three seasons while accumulating assets for 2015 and beyond.

The rest: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nfl-week-5-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-detroit-lions-pittsburgh-steelers/

[slim]

The Patriots suck!

Word

[GEM]

“old spice! Take a look what you’ve done. You’ve made a sexy man right out of my son.

Old spice!”

creeeeeepy!!!!

[FanInAZ]

creeeeeepy!!!!

Repulsive.

Nevertheless, the worst on going series of commercials IMO are the Sonic weirdos & the Toyota idiot.

[WTE]

Wow. Calais Campbell is still really pissed over that cheap-ass chop block from Julius Thomas. He said it has ruined players careers.

Now obviously Denver has long been known to coach that cheap play so it's time Fox and Thomas man up and promise that crap won't happen again.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Wow. Calais Campbell is still really pissed over that cheap-ass chop block from Julius Thomas. He said it has ruined players careers.

Now obviously Denver has long been known to coach that cheap play so it's time Fox and Thomas man up and promise that crap won't happen again.

It's a good thing JT never tried that crap with one of BB's thugs...you know, AH.

[WTE]

It's a good thing JT never tried that crap with one of BB's thugs...you know, AH.

Then maybe it will be a good thing if Gronk does the same thing to Demarcus?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Then maybe it will be a good thing if Gronk does the same thing to Demarcus?

I personally don't like cut blocks, because of the risk involved if not performed correctly, but let's not pretend the Patriots never cut block.

[WTE]

I personally don't like cut blocks, because of the risk involved if not performed correctly, but let's not pretend the Patriots never cut block.

They're not designed like yours are.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

They're not designed like yours are.

Whatever dude, a cut block is a cut block.

[WTE]

Whatever dude, a cut block is a cut block.

Then you admit it was cheap and dirty and designed and coached!

GEM hasn't.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Then you admit it was cheap and dirty and designed and coached!

GEM hasn't.

The only thing cheap and dirty in here is your underwear.

[MOtorboat]

Then maybe it will be a good thing if Gronk does the same thing to Demarcus?

Go for it. Gronk would probably hurt his vulva.

[WTE]

Go for it. Gronk would probably hurt his vulva.

Do you think Gronk should go unnecessarily low like Julius did?

[MOtorboat]

Do you think Gronk should go unnecessarily low like Julius did?

Oh, please.

[chazoe60]

So has Brady been benched or traded yet?

[Runamok]

Speaking of Brady, this changed my whole attitude about him

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/97767202


I had heard he was sort of aloof and a dick around his teammates but guess not, at all. Pats really amped up the effort for him against Cinci and you could hear the fans chanting "Brady...Brady" all night long during the broadcast.

Still, I wouldn't be totally shocked if NE trades him by the Oct 28 deadline. The numbers don't get any better for Kraft after that date.

[chazoe60]

Speaking of Brady, this changed my whole attitude about him

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/97767202


I had heard he was sort of aloof and a dick around his teammates but guess not, at all. Pats really amped up the effort for him against Cinci and you could hear the fans chanting "Brady...Brady" all night long during the broadcast.

Still, I wouldn't be totally shocked if NE trades him by the Oct 28 deadline. The numbers don't get any better for Kraft after that date.
You're joking right?


One bad game and a mediocre start to a season and people really think one of the top 5 QBs of all time is going to be traded? People, your heads are there for more than holding your hat.

[WTE]

You're joking right?


One bad game and a mediocre start to a season and people really think one of the top 5 QBs of all time is going to be traded? People, your heads are there for more than holding your hat.

He won't get traded or released until BB has at least two qb's he's comfortable within the system. And he certainly won't get traded by the deadline b/c BB has never brought another QB in midseason, as far as I can remember anyway.

[Runamok]

You're joking right?


One bad game and a mediocre start to a season and people really think one of the top 5 QBs of all time is going to be traded? People, your heads are there for more than holding your hat.

Please re-read my comment......slowly, this time.

I said I wouldn't be completely shocked if it happened. After reading about the salary and cap number impact facing NE with Brady and given their history and the rumors and events of the past ten days, I don't think it is beyond all possibility that they won't do something sooner rather than later.

WTE is right about the lack of two good QBs other than Brady as a sign that they wouldn't be thinking like this, but that may be the ONLY thing holding them back. It is also true that they risked (and lost) Brady's favorite among the younger WRs, Thompkins, while not risking the guy Garrafalo had some success with in the preseason (Tyms), so that's a little iffy.

Personally, I think they would be bonkers to get rid of Brady for whatever they hoped to save financially, cause he def represents their best chance to win now and IMO, over the next couple of years, at least. But they haven't spent to cap for Brady, after he paved the way for them with two contract restructurings and that seems a little bit outrageous if you was standing in Brady's shoes.

[Runamok]

You're joking right?


One bad game and a mediocre start to a season and people really think one of the top 5 QBs of all time is going to be traded? People, your heads are there for more than holding your hat.

Here's a real interesting read on the topic of Brady's current status. Long, but worth the read. make sure you look at the cap number implication chart and what this means for the Pats. Then try to tell me I'm crazy.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nfl-week-5-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-detroit-lions-pittsburgh-steelers/

[GEM]

Then you admit it was cheap and dirty and designed and coached!

GEM hasn't.

I haven't what?

[WTE]

I haven't what?

Admitted that Julius' chop block was cheap and dirty and designed and coached!

[MOtorboat]

LOLZ. Brady ain't getting traded by the end of the month. That's abso-*******-lutely hilarious.

[Runamok]

LOLZ. Brady ain't getting traded by the end of the month. That's abso-*******-lutely hilarious.


Thanks, guy. I'm sure NE fans across America are reassured by your POV.

[WTE]

Thanks, guy. I'm sure NE fans across America are reassured by your POV.

Mo's the same guy who after the Chiefs game declared Tom Brady has quit on the Patriots. He later tried to backtrack by saying he meant Brady just quit in that game but that is not what he intended.

[MOtorboat]

Thanks, guy. I'm sure NE fans across America are reassured by your POV.

Hopefully, they have some common sense and don't need my POV to reassure themselves.

[MOtorboat]

Mo's the same guy who after the Chiefs game declared Tom Brady has quit on the Patriots. He later tried to backtrack by saying he meant Brady just quit in that game but that is not what he intended.

At that point, he had had three horrible games and it absolutely looked like he had quit. But, hey, misconstrue what I was saying completely. You're good at it.

Tell us an ex-Patriots story. Maybe how Kenbrell Thompkins was going to be a star?

[WTE]

Tell us an ex-Patriots story. Maybe how Kenbrell Thompkins was going to be a star?

I'm only here to talk about the players in the locker room.

Brian Tyms. Remember the name folks. He is going to be a star.

5745

[MOtorboat]

Lol.

[WTE]

Lol.

What I said about Tim Wright is coming to fruition. Isn't it Mo?

[MOtorboat]

What I said about Tim Wright is coming to fruition. Isn't it Mo?

The lol was more directed towards the fact you won't own your Thompkins predictions.

Wright had one good game, he has what? 10 catches in five games now?

[DenBronx]

I don't believe for a second that the Pats will trade Brady. That would just be pure stupidity and wrong to a guy that took your team to 5 Superbowls and won 3. Brady should retire a Patriot.

[artie_dale]

I wouldn't be surprised if Brady gets let go if the Pats don't make the playoffs (doesn't make the playoffs). It is what it is and we've seen time and time again, organizations go in various directions. Its a business. The only difference between Brady being let go by the Pats and any other team letting the average player go is, Brady has been considered a super start for the last 10+ yrs. If the cheap ($$$) Galapago Island is good enough to move in so the Pats can build around him for the near future, then it's not a bad plan either.

[WTE]

Wright had one good game, he has what? 10 catches in five games now?

They were obviously slowly integrating him into the offense Mo. Now he will be unleashed.

[PatriotsGuy]

They were obviously slowly integrating him into the offense Mo. Now he will be unleashed.


"I feel it's still early," Wright told CSN New England. "I do a good job of being patient and trying my hardest when my number's called to make it happen, take advantage of the opportunities. But I know it's going to come. I'm just doing everything I can to be in that right position at that right time.

"I feel like amongst the team I'm not really the new guy anymore as far as getting used to everything. But as far as the offense, I got a long way to go. I'm still learning. Every day I hear something new from that aspect. But it's going well. Coaches are doing a great job. The team has welcomed me with open arms. I feel welcomed and wanted.”

this was from September 30th

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2014/09/where_theres_a_wright_theres_nothing_happening_for .html

[Runamok]

The lol was more directed towards the fact you won't own your Thompkins predictions.

Wright had one good game, he has what? 10 catches in five games now?


I was curious whether you had any point or were just bloviating so I did a little checking and seems like Wright does only have 10 catches but I think I read he was only targeted 10 times? Is that true, Mo? Can you verify this?

Because, if true, wouldn't that be impressive? And maybe What The 'Ell is the one with a solid point?

Please confirm or deny because I am eager to decide which of you is correct.

[MOtorboat]

I was curious whether you had any point or were just bloviating so I did a little checking and seems like Wright does only have 10 catches but I think I read he was only targeted 10 times? Is that true, Mo? Can you verify this?

Because, if true, wouldn't that be impressive? And maybe What The 'Ell is the one with a solid point?

Please confirm or deny because I am eager to decide which of you is correct.

I'm simply trolling the troll, who was overjoyed with the acquisition of Tim Wright and called him a matchup problem, only to then see him catch 9 passes in five games. Maybe he will be a matchup problem, but he hasn't been as of yet.

I don't really give a shit about his targets.

[WTE]

No Mo. I called him a matchup nightmare, not a problem, a nightmare. Just wait. Denver won't have anyone who can cover Gronk and Wright when they bring their sorry asses to Foxboro.

[MNPatsFan]

You assume i care what Goodell and the NFL thinks.Actually Paul Tagliabue was the commissioner, but don't let facts get in the way of your delusional argument.;)

[MNPatsFan]

from the article you just posted.



Yup. Thats totally up there with videotaping teams hand signals and audibles to give an edge in the SB.

Building a football stadium versus Cheating to win a ring. Hard choice of whats worse.You omitted this part of the article from right before your quote:

Harold Henderson, the chairman of the Management Council and the NFL's executive vice president of labor relations . . . did not directly address the issue of whether the club gained a competitive advantageHe was specifically asked whether the Broncos gained a competitive advantage from their violations and REFUSED to say "NO THE BRONCOS DID NOT GAIN A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE", which he could and would have done if it were true.;)

[chazoe60]

Comparing what the Broncos did to what the Pats did is ridiculous. The Pats stole signals and filmed practices, both offer enormous competitive advantages. The Broncos deferred payments to players, the same players that would have been on the team regardless.

[MNPatsFan]

Comparing what the Broncos did to what the Pats did is ridiculous. The Pats stole signals and filmed practices, both offer enormous competitive advantages. The Broncos deferred payments to players, the same players that would have been on the team regardless.By circumventing the salary cap, the Broncos were able to retain players that would otherwise have had to be cut. Sure the Same big name players such as Elway, TD, Sharpe etc. would have been on the team, but the supporting cast would have been different and probably inferior. Therefore, not a ridiculous comparison, but you can continue trying to delude and convince yourself that the Broncos violations and cheating weren't as serious as the Patriots, but that is like saying Bernie Madoff's violations weren't as serious as ENRON's (pick your white collar criminal) violations

[MOtorboat]

By circumventing the salary cap, the Broncos were able to retain players that would otherwise have had to be cut. Sure the Same big name players such as Elway, TD, Sharpe etc. would have been on the team, but the supporting cast would have been different and probably inferior. Therefore, not a ridiculous comparison, but you can continue trying to delude and convince yourself that the Broncos violations and cheating weren't as serious as the Patriots, but that is like saying Bernie Madoff's violations weren't as serious as ENRON's (pick your white collar criminal) violations

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/28/sports/pro-football-nfl-owners-discuss-salary-cap-troubles.html


Bowlen acknowledged the arrangement with Elway and Davis, but said, ''There was never a salary-cap violation.'' He said he believed that other teams were attempting to spread such rumors. Although the Broncos did not cheat the salary-cap rules, they apparently did violate league guidelines regarding the way players are paid.

[chazoe60]

By circumventing the salary cap, the Broncos were able to retain players that would otherwise have had to be cut. Sure the Same big name players such as Elway, TD, Sharpe etc. would have been on the team, but the supporting cast would have been different and probably inferior. Therefore, not a ridiculous comparison, but you can continue trying to delude and convince yourself that the Broncos violations and cheating weren't as serious as the Patriots, but that is like saying Bernie Madoff's violations weren't as serious as ENRON's (pick your white collar criminal) violations

The cap violations didn't change the makeup of the team. It was about putting cash aside for the new stadium. You don't really have a grasp of what happened. It's okay, you've always been the most defensive poster about the NE cheating and what you do is deflect.

[WTE]

I am going to circumvent my son's allowance so I can afford to build a bigger house.

[MOtorboat]

I am going to circumvent my son's allowance so I can afford to build a bigger house.

Good grief, how much is your kids' allowances?

[WTE]

Good grief, how much is your kids' allowances?

I was just kidding Mo. Both of my kids never got an allowance.

[MNPatsFan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/28/sports/pro-football-nfl-owners-discuss-salary-cap-troubles.htmlWell if Bowlen said "There was never a salary-cap violation.'' then it must be true.:rolleyes:

I mean it's not like he isn't or wouldn't be an unbiased person or anything. LOL:laugh:

Unfortunately for the Broncos and your argument, the NFL found the Broncos violated the salary cap and punished the Broncos TWICE, not once, for those violations.

[MOtorboat]

I'm not going to get into the minutia of it in a smack forum. The Broncos were punished once for a salary cap violation and once for a league guidelines violation, which was not a cap violation.

The Patriots taped practices for use in film room studies. We received further proof of the cheaters when McDaniels tried to do it again on his own.

[MNPatsFan]

The cap violations didn't change the makeup of the team. It was about putting cash aside for the new stadium. You don't really have a grasp of what happened. It's okay, you've always been the most defensive poster about the NE cheating and what you do is deflect.Contrary to your belief and assertions, research has indicated otherwise. This article and its research show the fallacy of your naive position and denial of the Broncos violations and cheating.


Elway’s cap charges in the Super Bowl seasons were just $2.1 and $2.6 million respectively. By comparison Dan Marino, who would be the most logical comparison, had cap charges of $4.3 and $7.6 million. Troy Aikman’s cap charges were both over $5 million in those seasons. Some may argue that Steve Young had low cap charges ($3.5 million), but that was also a team found in violation of the cap. So for the purposes of this study it just did not seem relevant to include this group as a reasonable way to look at building a team especially in light of the violations they were found guilty of.

http://overthecap.com/nfl-salary-cap-super-bowl-champions-part/

Contrary to your claim, I am not defensive. I freely admit that the Patriots violated the rules. I merely point out that if the Patriots SB victories are tainted, then so are the Broncos SB victories because they also violated the rules in the seasons they won their SBs. You are the defensive one because you refuse to acknowledge that the Broncos committed violations and that their SB victories are similarly tainted. Perhaps you should change your name/handle to "Pot calling kettle black" because you claim the Patriots' Super Bowl victories are tainted because of Spy Gate, but your team won both of their Super Bowls during seasons in which they were violating the NFL's rules a/k/a cheating.;)

[MOtorboat]

Right. The Broncos were punished for the salary cap violation. And the league guidelines violation. That equals the two violations.

The Patriots also cheated. I brought neither Super Bowl up.

YAY! Ancient history.

[MNPatsFan]

I'm not going to get into the minutia of it in a smack forum. The Broncos were punished once for a salary cap violation and once for a league guidelines violation, which was not a cap violation.

The Patriots taped practices for use in film room studies. We received further proof of the cheaters when McDaniels tried to do it again on his own.According to the Washington Post:

In December 2001, the Broncos were fined $968,000 and lost a third-round pick in the 2002 draft for violations reportedly relating to $29 million in deferred payments to quarterback John Elway and running back Terrell Davis.
On Thursday, [September 16, 2004], the league announced that the Broncos have been fined $950,000 and will lose a third-round selection in next year's draft for circumventing the salary cap between 1996 and '98.

Mo, you and other Broncos fans can spin it any you want, but the Broncos were penalized twice for salary cap violations.

The allegation that the Pats taped practices was disproved. Here is an article establishing that.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3394017

I suspect that won't cause you to stop claiming the Patriots taped practices even though there is absolutely no evidence to support that accusation and position.

[WTE]

Guys, let' all try to get along.

Go Jets!!!

[MOtorboat]

I haven't spun a damn thing about the Broncos financial mistakes of the late 90s.

There was a guidelines violation, a salary cap violation and two punishments. Then you quote an article saying that exact thing and tell me I'm wrong. :confused:

[chazoe60]

I haven't spun a damn thing about the Broncos financial mistakes of the late 90s.

There was a guidelines violation, a salary cap violation and two punishments. Then you quote an article saying that exact thing and tell me I'm wrong. :confused:

MN is the real WTE

[MOtorboat]

MN is the real WTE

If the Patriots didn't do anything wrong, whatsoever, I wonder if he can explain why they lost a first round draft pick?

[MNPatsFan]

If the Patriots didn't do anything wrong, whatsoever, I wonder if he can explain why they lost a first round draft pick?Mo, please show me where I said they did nothing wrong. In fact, in my response to Chaze, I stated, "I freely admit that the Patriots violated the rules." I, unlike a number of Broncos fans (not you Mo), clearly am not denying that my team did something wrong.;)

Edit: Although the Patriots taped the opposing team's signals from unauthorized locations during games, there is no evidence that they taped other team's practices. This I am and will deny.

[WTE]

I'm sure you guys heard that Tom Brady hurt his ankle in practice today.

[chazoe60]

Karma for MN being a douche.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If the Patriots didn't do anything wrong, whatsoever, I wonder if he can explain why they lost a first round draft pick?

....followed by video evidence being destroyed. Pat Bowlen disclosed everything Denver did.

[ShaneFalco]

You omitted this part of the article from right before your quote:
He was specifically asked whether the Broncos gained a competitive advantage from their violations and REFUSED to say "NO THE BRONCOS DID NOT GAIN A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE", which he could and would have done if it were true.;)



sounds like more excuses to justify what your team did.

Like i said, go ask any fan of the NFL, what was worse....

most people probably dont even realize the Broncos had a cap violation so they could afford the new stadiums expenses.

Then when they reply that "obviously recording hand signals to gain an advantage in the SB, So they know which play is being called by the offense, is worse...."

You can go all homer on them.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Mo, please show me where I said they did nothing wrong. In fact, in my response to Chaze, I stated, "I freely admit that the Patriots violated the rules." I, unlike a number of Broncos fans (not you Mo), clearly am not denying that my team did something wrong.;)

Edit: Although the Patriots taped the opposing team's signals from unauthorized locations during games, there is no evidence that they taped other team's practices. This I am and will deny.


So, you deny that they were watching the Rams walkthrough?

[WTE]

So, you deny that they were watching the Rams walkthrough?

I will answer for him.

"Yes, only a belligerent, ignorant, idiotic fool such as yourself would ever believe the Patriots watched the Rams walkthrough!"

That's what MN would have answered to you.

[Slick]

Wounded animals again. The only NFL fans that ever bring up Denvers salary cap deal are Patriots fans. Everyone else doesn't and didn't really care but the Cheatriots will always be known as the Cheatriots and their wins in the superbowl will always be tainted.

[WTE]

Wounded animals again. The only NFL fans that ever bring up Denvers salary cap deal are Patriots fans. Everyone else doesn't and didn't really care but the Cheatriots will always be known as the Cheatriots and their wins in the superbowl will always be tainted.

Why will they be tainted? Name one play in any of the Super Bowl wins where NE had some sort of competitive advantage. You just need to provide one play Slick. That's all I'm asking.

[Slick]

Why will they be tainted? Name one play in any of the Super Bowl wins where NE had some sort of competitive advantage. You just need to provide one play Slick. That's all I'm asking.

How about all of them?

[Slick]

That's the thing WTE. Goodell destroyed the tapes. Everyone remembers the Patriots as cheaters. All anyone remembers about John Elway's Broncos is that they dominated and Elway went out like a god.

[chazoe60]

Slick for the win.

[WTE]

That's the thing WTE. Goodell destroyed the tapes. Everyone remembers the Patriots as cheaters. All anyone remembers about John Elway's Broncos is that they dominated and Elway went out like a god.

That's the thing Slick. Goodell invited the media to gather one day and watch all the tapes. All of them. They were bored silly after 10 minutes and then started socializing with each other.

You guys always act like the tapes were destroyed in a secret operation and nobody ever saw what was on them. They did see the tapes and quickly realized it was all about nothing.

Thanks for playing guys.

[MNPatsFan]

Wounded animals again. The only NFL fans that ever bring up Denvers salary cap deal are Patriots fans. Everyone else doesn't and didn't really care but the Cheatriots will always be known as the Cheatriots and their wins in the superbowl will always be tainted.Slick you must have a short memory to forget about the Raiders owner and fans bringing up Denver's salary cap violations and tainting the Broncos SB victories. The difference between me and you and a number of Broncos fans is that I admit that my team violated the NFL's rules, while you and other Broncos fans defensively deny that their team did anything wrong. No matter how much you bury your head(s) in the sand and deny that your team broke the rules in the years they won their SBs, it won't change the fact that they did and that their SB victories are just as tainted as the Patriots.

I have posted a number of times that I don't believe either the Broncos or the Patriots gained an advantage from their violations, but that if you claim one team gained an advantage then you have to claim both teams did in order to be consistent.

[MNPatsFan]

So, you deny that they were watching the Rams walkthrough?My understanding is that while the Patriots support staff was setting up in preparation for the Patriots practice/walk through, which was after the Rams practice, they saw portions of the Rams practice/walk through. If you want to claim that means the Patriots watched the Rams practice. They didn't, however, tape the walk through or watch more than bits and pieces of it while they set up for the Patriots walk through.

[chazoe60]

Talk about having your head buried in the sand. What a ******* joke. Anyone who thinks what the Broncos did gained them anywhere near the competitive advantage as what the Patriots gained by blatantly stealing signs and filming practices is an idiot.

[Slick]

I never denied anything. I simply said no one remembers or even cares what Denver did. They only remember that Denver's teams dominated during that run and Elway went out as a Superbowl MVP.

Meanwhile every sports fan alive during the Patriots run remembers the Patriots as videotaping cheaters.

[MOtorboat]

Don't forget about taping the Jets signals.

[MNPatsFan]

Talk about having your head buried in the sand. What a ******* joke. Anyone who thinks what the Broncos did gained them anywhere near the competitive advantage as what the Patriots gained by blatantly stealing signs and filming practices is an idiot.Please show me the evidence the Patriots EVER taped a team's practice. Of course you can't because the NFL has investigated and determined the Patriots DIDN'T videotape any teams practices. I doubt however that will prevent you from continuing to spew out false statements and lies.;)

[ShaneFalco]

:lol:

[WTE]

Guys, all I remember is Elway went out against a highly inferior Dirty Bird team.

Everyone knew Dan Reeves and his Atlanta Falcons did not belong in the Super Bowl. They sucked.

Are you really proud that your circumventing Broncos beat the likes of Chris Chandler, Jammal Charles, Eugene Robinsion and Terrence Mathis?

That was a horrible Super Bowl guys. Congrats on your circumventing victory*

[MOtorboat]

Are you proud that the Patriots lost to two mediocre Giants teams that barely made the playoffs?

[WTE]

Are you proud that the Patriots lost to two mediocre Giants teams that barely made the playoffs?

Are you proud that Bowlen and Shanny copied DeBartolo's cheating west cost ways? Seemed like a lot of cheating was going on in the west coast in the 90's.

Bowlen was just too dumb to figure things out on his own and had to copy Debartolo.

[MOtorboat]

Are you proud that Bowlen and Shanny copied DeBartolo's cheating west cost ways? Seemed like a lot of cheating was going on in the west coast in the 90's.

Bowlen was just too dumb to figure things out on his own and had to copy Debartolo.

NFL deemed Belicheck's cheating ways as worse.

[chazoe60]

Guys, all I remember is Elway went out against a highly inferior Dirty Bird team.

Everyone knew Dan Reeves and his Atlanta Falcons did not belong in the Super Bowl. They sucked.

Are you really proud that your circumventing Broncos beat the likes of Chris Chandler, Jammal Charles, Eugene Robinsion and Terrence Mathis?

That was a horrible Super Bowl guys. Congrats on your circumventing victory*

John Fox almost beat you guys with Jake Dellhome.

The Pats won all three of their SBs by 3 points, and that was with stolen signals and practice footage. :laugh:

[WTE]

NFL deemed Belicheck's cheating ways as worse.

No they didn't. Filming opposing signals was always allowed until Goodell released a tiny memo stating it was now against the rules. Belichick decided to ignore that obscure memo.

However, violating the salary cap was always against the rules. There was no need to send a memo reminding teams you can't offer deferred payments. There was no need sending a memo reminding teams you can't pay your players under the table.

IMO. Bowlen should have received the same punishment as Debartolo because what Pat did was just as worse.

[chazoe60]

No they didn't. Filming opposing signals was always allowed until Goodell released a tiny memo stating it was now against the rules. Belichick decided to ignore that obscure memo.

However, violating the salary cap was always against the rules. There was no need to send a memo reminding teams you can't offer deferred payments. There was no need sending a memo reminding teams you can't pay your players under the table.

IMO. Bowlen should have received the same punishment as Debartolo because what Pat did was just as worse.
Filming practices has always been illegal.

[MNPatsFan]

Filming practices has always been illegal.Jesus chaze you are one slow and/or ignorant person. You just keep reciting the same false statement. Yes, filming practices has always been illegal and the Patriots weren't found to have filmed any other team's practice. Circumventing the salary cap has ALWAYS been illegal and the Broncos were found to have circumvented the salary cap, were fined more money that the Patriots, and lost two third round picks versus one first round pick.

[ShaneFalco]

the difference is, the broncos did it to create money for a new stadium.

The pats did it to simply cheat to win.

[chazoe60]

Jesus chaze you are one slow and/or ignorant person. You just keep reciting the same false statement. Yes, filming practices has always been illegal and the Patriots weren't found to have filmed any other team's practice. Circumventing the salary cap has ALWAYS been illegal and the Broncos were found to have circumvented the salary cap, were fined more money that the Patriots, and lost two third round picks versus one first round pick.
Post reported.

[MOtorboat]

Jesus chaze you are one slow and/or ignorant person. You just keep reciting the same false statement. Yes, filming practices has always been illegal and the Patriots weren't found to have filmed any other team's practice. Circumventing the salary cap has ALWAYS been illegal and the Broncos were found to have circumvented the salary cap, were fined more money that the Patriots, and lost two third round picks versus one first round pick.

The NFL deemed Belicheck's cheating as much more severe.

[chazoe60]

The NFL deemed Belicheck's cheating as much more severe.

Well, stealing signals and illegally spying and recording practice sessions are definitely worse forms of cheating than some tricky accounting.

[MNPatsFan]

the difference is, the broncos did it to create money for a new stadium.Yep keep wearing your orange colored glasses, drinking the orange kool-aid, and believing everything the Broncos and their owner said. I prefer to rely on articles and research based information rather than the self-serving comments of Bowlen. I cited an article with research that clearly demonstrated that Elway's cap figure during the seasons the Broncos cheated was significantly lower than his QB peers at the time allowing the Broncos to spend the money to place a much stronger supporting cast of players around Elway.

[MNPatsFan]

The NFL deemed Belicheck's cheating as much more severe.No it didn't. The Broncos were fined more money (1.918M) than the Patriots ($250K) and lost two picks (3rd rounders) versus one pick (1st rounder). Now I would much rather lose two 3rd round picks than a 1st round pick, but the Broncos 1.6+ million dollar larger fine essentially equalizes the Bronco's and Patriot's penalties.

[MNPatsFan]

Well, stealing signals are definitely worse forms of cheating than some tricky accounting.There corrected your post to make it factually accurate given that the NFL's investigation never found the Patriots were spying or recording practices. The NFL found the Patriots were recording the other team's signals from unauthorized or illegal locations.

ENRON, Bernie Madoff, Denny Hecker, etc called their actions were merely tricky accounting too, but I doubt their victims feel that their actions or not as serious as the Patriots filming/recording the opposing team's signals from illegal locations.

[ShaneFalco]

Yep keep wearing your orange colored glasses, drinking the orange kool-aid, and believing everything the Broncos and their owner said. I prefer to rely on articles and research based information rather than the self-serving comments of Bowlen. I cited an article with research that clearly demonstrated that Elway's cap figure during the seasons the Broncos cheated was significantly lower than his QB peers at the time allowing the Broncos to spend the money to place a much stronger supporting cast of players around Elway.rofl. The article you guys posted said that...has nothing to do with what the broncos owner said.

[chazoe60]

I wonder if the Pats would have beat the Giants if they were still allowed to record practices and steal signals.

[MOtorboat]

No it didn't. The Broncos were fined more money (1.918M) than the Patriots ($250K) and lost two picks (3rd rounders) versus one pick (1st rounder). Now I would much rather lose two 3rd round picks than a 1st round pick, but the Broncos 1.6+ million dollar larger fine essentially equalizes the Bronco's and Patriot's penalties.

So two third round picks are better than a first round pick?

What planet do you live on?

I see you conveniently forgot the single, largest fine ever given to a coach.

[Slick]

Guys, all I remember is Elway went out against a highly inferior Dirty Bird team.

Everyone knew Dan Reeves and his Atlanta Falcons did not belong in the Super Bowl. They sucked.

Are you really proud that your circumventing Broncos beat the likes of Chris Chandler, Jammal Charles, Eugene Robinsion and Terrence Mathis?

That was a horrible Super Bowl guys. Congrats on your circumventing victory*

The only football fans who ever bring up circumventing are Patriot fans trying desperately to take the stink off the fact that everyone remembers they're videotaping cheaters.

[WTE]

And if Bowlen was so brazenly paying players under the table what other shenanigans was he up to? You know, I was always suspicious when Shanny could afford to build that 35 million dollar mansion for himself and his wife in Colorado. That's a lot of money for a house for a football coach.

Just what type of Syndicate was Bowlen running?

[PatriotsGuy]

Lol at the "taping practices"

[chazoe60]

Lol at the "taping practices"

Pags, this is no laughing matter.

[PatriotsGuy]

Pags, this is no laughing matter.

I know Chazoe. I guess the reason I feel so comfortable here is because the last time either of our teams won the big one, it was due to circumventing the rules. Have a great day!

[MNPatsFan]

So two third round picks are better than a first round pick?Depends what you mean by better?:confused:

I said I would much rather lose two 3rd round picks than a 1st round pick. Therefore, I implied/indicated that losing the 1st round pick was a more significant punishment in my opinion than losing the two 3rd round picks. So if you are saying that losing 2 3rd round picks is better than losing 1 1st round pick then yes. If you are saying that losing one 1st round pick is better than losing two 3rd round picks then no.


I see you conveniently forgot the single, largest fine ever given to a coach.I was merely citing the penalties the teams paid. However, the Broncos' fine (1.918M) is still more than two times larger than the combined fines of BB and the Patriots ($750K).;)

[MNPatsFan]

rofl. The article you guys posted said that...has nothing to do with what the broncos owner said.No, the article quoted Bowlen claiming that. Harold Henderson, the chairman of the Management Council and the NFL's executive vice president of labor relations, did not directly address the issue of whether the club gained a competitive advantage. He was specifically asked whether the Broncos gained a competitive advantage and refused to answer. If he agreed with Bowlen's claim he would have said no, but instead he refused to answer the question.;)

Nice try though Shane.:D

[PatriotsGuy]

I think the fines and loss of draft picks answered that question.

[MOtorboat]

WTE just had an orgasm.

[WTE]

WTE just had an orgasm.

Tim Wright? Yes. You're right. And how about that TD catch by Brian Tyms in triple coverage! He's going to be a star!

[Davii]

Brady played great today.

[MOtorboat]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/11697207/new-england-patriots-lb-jerod-mayo-rb-stevan-ridley-miss-thursday-game-new-york-jets-knee-injuries

Ouch.

[PatriotsGuy]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/11697207/new-england-patriots-lb-jerod-mayo-rb-stevan-ridley-miss-thursday-game-new-york-jets-knee-injuries

Ouch.

Yes, we are aware.

[WTE]

Unfortunately our depth at RB includes rookie James White from U Wisconsin and I think we can all agree that running backs from Wisconsin rarely pan out in the NFL.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

unfortunately our depth at rb includes rookie james white from u wisconsin and i think we can all agree that running backs from wisconsin rarely pan out in the nfl.


ziiing!!!!

[NightTrainLayne]

No, the article quoted Bowlen claiming that. Harold Henderson, the chairman of the Management Council and the NFL's executive vice president of labor relations, did not directly address the issue of whether the club gained a competitive advantage. He was specifically asked whether the Broncos gained a competitive advantage and refused to answer. If he agreed with Bowlen's claim he would have said no, but instead he refused to answer the question.;)

Nice try though Shane.:D

Who is spinning here?

Not acknowledging whether the Broncos gained a competitive advantage is de facto proof that they did? What kind of logic is that? It's not logic based at all.

Since you are basing your argument on Henderson's statement, let's look at some more of the statement:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html


Harold Henderson, the chairman of the Management Council and the NFL's executive vice president of labor relations, confirmed in a written statement released by the league that "the individuals responsible for the violations are no longer with the team" and that the Broncos "have been cooperative throughout the investigation." Henderson did not directly address the issue of whether the club gained a competitive advantage but said the Broncos circumvented the cap to help pay for costs related to the construction of Invesco Field at Mile High.

"The investigation resulted in the discovery of undisclosed agreements between the club and Broncos players during the same period [1996-1998] pursuant to which various players agreed to defer certain compensation in exchange for a commitment to pay interest on the deferred amounts," Henderson said in the statement. "These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

So, for review. He didn't say one way or the other whether or not the club gained a competitive advantage. But he does acknowledge clearly, and plainly, that the agreements were designed to help the club cope with cash flow issues while fronting their portion of the costs of the new stadium. I.E., if not for the stadium being built, they would not have had a reason to use such agreements.

It did create salary cap "accounting issues" (his words), and the club accepted the penalties imposed.

But your logic that just because he didn't say one way or the other whether or not the club gained a competitive advantage defaults to meaning that he thinks they did is kind of silly. He could have just as easily answered that they did gain a competitive advantage. Instead, he agrees with the Club that the motive behind these agreements was to help cash-flow payments for the new stadium.

[WTE]

Did Joel move to Oklahoma and start selling insurance?

#longwinded↑

[TXBRONC]

Please show me the evidence the Patriots EVER taped a team's practice. Of course you can't because the NFL has investigated and determined the Patriots DIDN'T videotape any teams practices. I doubt however that will prevent you from continuing to spew out false statements and lies.;)

McDaniels admitted his coaching in Denver that this is exactly what the Patriots would do.

[WTE]

McDaniels admitted his coaching in Denver that this is exactly what the Patriots would do.

I believe you are intoxicated, sir.

[TXBRONC]

I believe you are intoxicated, sir.

I'm not but you're ignorant.

[Davii]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/11697207/new-england-patriots-lb-jerod-mayo-rb-stevan-ridley-miss-thursday-game-new-york-jets-knee-injuries

Ouch.

Big losses. Sucks.

[WTE]

I'm not but you're ignorant.

Hmmmmmmm Texas. :confused:

Well then, I hope you don't have a fever.

[ShaneFalco]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ref-helped-patriots-avoid-penalty-133404249.html


A Ref Helped The Patriots Avoid A Penalty On The Jets' Game-Ending Blocked Field Goal

[PatriotsGuy]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ref-helped-patriots-avoid-penalty-133404249.html

A doi doi doi durrrrrr

[Slick]

I don't think it's a big deal but I'm not buying the player safety excuse.