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Denver Native (Carol)
10-01-2014, 12:48 PM
You can't plan for Peyton Manning. You can't spend hours, days, weeks searching for the perfect scheme to stop him. You can't fool him.

And if anyone know this, it's Bruce Arians and Tom Moore.

Arians, the Arizona Cardinals' head coach, played a major role in Manning's development into perhaps the game's greatest quarterback. Arians was the Colts' quarterbacks coach from 1998-2000, guiding Manning from Day One of his professional career.

Moore, the Cardinals' assistant coach and former Colts offensive coordinator, spent all 13 seasons with Manning in Indianapolis. The two made the playoffs 11 times together, won Super Bowl XLI together and posted a top-five passing attack 11 times together. Manning never a played a game with the Colts without Moore on the sideline.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26641981/undefeated-cardinals-come-denver-equipped-experience-belief-factor

Northman
10-01-2014, 02:34 PM
This will be an interesting game. Im generally curious how good they are.

tripp
10-01-2014, 02:41 PM
I haven't really watched any of their games this year. All I know is Carson Palmer is 1-5 against us, should he play against us on Sunday. It's ok though guys, I'm going to game on Sunday, I'm 1-0 when going to games in Denver.

Joel
10-01-2014, 03:06 PM
Arizona was already a great team last year; again, they won 10 games playing both NFCCG teams twice plus NO and Carolina, giving the SB Champs their ONLY home loss in the last 2½ seasons. In ANY other division (including ours) they're a 12 win team jockeying or a first round bye or even homefield—but they played in the NFCW so they missed the playoffs entirely. All that with a head coach in his first with the team, and a starting QB in his first year on his THIRD team. They were already pretty good, but it's a safe bet they're much better now.

I know it's a home game and that was @Defending SB Champs, but this may be a better test of our season than Seattle was. Arizona may tank by years end like a lot of teams that came roaring out of the gate looking unstoppable in years past—but we're playing them in the midst of that, not in December when they're run out of steam (assuming that even happens.) I really hope the bye's gotten us past the injuries, suspensions and off-field extracurriculars at away games, and gotten our running games stuff together: We'll need everything we've got vs. Arizona.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-01-2014, 03:08 PM
I think our defense is the major contributor to us winning this game. I don't think they'll be able to score more than 17 against us.

Joel
10-01-2014, 03:20 PM
I think our defense is the major contributor to us winning this game. I don't think they'll be able to score more than 17 against us.
Our D played a whale of a SB despite losing half its starters, only allowing Seattle 14—and lost by 5 TDs because the offense couldn't move the ball or stop throwing it away: We need more vs. Arizona.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-01-2014, 03:24 PM
Our D played a whale of a SB despite losing half its starters, only allowing Seattle 14—and lost by 5 TDs because the offense couldn't move the ball or stop throwing it away: We need more vs. Arizona.

I don't think we will turn the ball over that much at home. The SB was essentially a home game for the Seahawks with the crowd noise. I think we'll score in the mid 20's. We are a much better team than we were in the SB.

CrazyHorse
10-01-2014, 03:31 PM
I have a feeling they won't be leaving Denver undefeated.

VonDoom
10-01-2014, 03:56 PM
I shouldn't really compare the two, because each game has its own identity, but Seattle is still better than Arizona, regardless of their records. Their defenses are comparable (which is a big compliment to Arizona) but their offense is not nearly as dangerous as Seattle's. Seems like Palmer won't play, based on what people are saying on Twitter. Fitzgerald has been a non-factor this year. We're at home. We really SHOULD win this game, but it still makes me very, very nervous.

I also don't understand how we're like eight point favorites in Vegas. That seems awfully high to me.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-01-2014, 04:32 PM
I shouldn't really compare the two, because each game has its own identity, but Seattle is still better than Arizona, regardless of their records. Their defenses are comparable (which is a big compliment to Arizona) but their offense is not nearly as dangerous as Seattle's. Seems like Palmer won't play, based on what people are saying on Twitter. Fitzgerald has been a non-factor this year. We're at home. We really SHOULD win this game, but it still makes me very, very nervous.

I also don't understand how we're like eight point favorites in Vegas. That seems awfully high to me.

Maybe so, but people like to bet on Denver, which Vegas will take into consideration. IMO, Denver will win by 10.

Joel
10-01-2014, 05:56 PM
I don't think we will turn the ball over that much at home. The SB was essentially a home game for the Seahawks with the crowd noise. I think we'll score in the mid 20's. We are a much better team than we were in the SB.
Hope you're right, but passing generates far more turnovers than running, and so far we can't run. If the crowd was any louder on our possessions than ours, I couldn't tell: They just protected the ball far better than we did. It probably wasn't as loud as @Seattle last week, but we weren't slinging it all over the field, so Seattle only got one Int, and if our second year RB doesn't fumble the first play from scrimmage to give them an easy early FG, we win that game in regulation. Hopefully the bye's worked out all the kinks in our running game, but I fear that may take more than just one off week.


Maybe so, but people like to bet on Denver, which Vegas will take into consideration. IMO, Denver will win by 10.
That's ALL Vegas considers; they don't CARE who wins as long as equal numbers bet both sides. I've never tried, but would "wager" one could make a tidy profit just figuring power ratings every week and then putting money on ever game where the official line wildly diverges from the power rating. It's a sucker bet to wager against the house, because it ALWAYS sets the odds in its own favor—but OTHER pros can and do make a killing betting against OTHER suckers. Didn't we fail to cover against the Jags last year? ;)

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-01-2014, 06:09 PM
If the crowd was any louder on our possessions than ours, I couldn't tell: They just protected the ball far better than we did.

It seemed evident to me that Seattle had more fans at the SB than we did. The noise was an issue on the first snap. We had to go to a silent snap count the rest of the game which resulted in Seattle's pass rushers having a huge advantage.

Personally, I think if we played Seattle at home we'd beat them by two scores.

Ravage!!!
10-01-2014, 06:30 PM
I'm just glad that I know the differnce between this game and the SUper Bowl...... meaning, its a completely different game and the SUper Bowl has ZERO bearing on this game against the Cardinals. Why people keep bringing that game up, is beyond me.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-01-2014, 06:39 PM
I'm just glad that I know the differnce between this game and the SUper Bowl...... meaning, its a completely different game and the SUper Bowl has ZERO bearing on this game against the Cardinals. Why people keep bringing that game up, is beyond me.

I only bring it up because I feel at times it's necessary to mention that it wasn't really a neutral site. Seattle has a huge advantage when their pass rushers can play off of a silent snap.

Slick
10-01-2014, 06:52 PM
I think Arizona is going to give Denver all they can handle on Sunday.

Joel
10-01-2014, 07:13 PM
I'm just glad that I know the differnce between this game and the SUper Bowl...... meaning, its a completely different game and the SUper Bowl has ZERO bearing on this game against the Cardinals. Why people keep bringing that game up, is beyond me.
You don't understand why people keep bringing up a CHAMPIONSHIP game historys greatest passing lost by FIVE TOUCHDOWNS? Where the Best. Offense. EVAH! didn't get a FIRST DOWN till the SECOND QUARTER, and didn't get its (only) score till the final play of the THIRD, only narrowly avoiding the First. SB Shutout. EVAH! The thing was shown live all over the PLANET, but you don't get why those 7 billion+ people keep bringing up the time they saw the greatest passing of all time utterly destroyed from kickoff to gun for three solid hours?

I've got friends in Oslo who can clarify it for you. My wifes best friend's a native Norwegian who couldn't care less about American football, but she saw the morning paper and called my wife half-seriously asking if it was safe here or she needed a place to hide out for a while. There are people in North Korea who don't know about the moon landing—but they saw Seattle win a championship beating us like a rented mule. Remember the '90s Bills? WHY?! Bet it's not because of their historically good offenses, any more than you remember the '07 Pats for being the team that set those records we broke.

Yea, we made the postseason and got to a bowl game; I'm sure the alumni association's thrilled about that and doesn't care a bit we got blown out of a game we were NEVER in: WAY "too shabby."

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-01-2014, 07:13 PM
I think Arizona is going to give Denver all they can handle on Sunday.

Oh, I don't think they'll roll over or anything. I just think Denver is the better team, and AZ's offense is probably not going to fair well in Mile High.

Shazam!
10-01-2014, 07:13 PM
Broncs have had two weeks to stew about their last game.

A week off to get close to 100%.

Trevathan returns should light a fire under a D with something to prove.

Broncos will not lose back to back games.

AZ will come down to earth Sun.

tomjonesrocks
10-01-2014, 07:38 PM
I'd be stunned by a loss this week.

Denver is the better team outright, pitiful run game or not. Am a little worried about Ellington; he's a "Knile Davis"-type runner and will be healthier than he has this year -- but IMO he won't be enough.

If they lose this one Elway will have to hand the coaches their ass -- a loss would be their fault.

MOtorboat
10-01-2014, 07:46 PM
Last year's Super Bowl doesn't have a damn thing to do with a week 5 game not even played against the same team.

This is seriously getting old.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-01-2014, 09:35 PM
Sounds like Palmer will not play.

broncofaninfla
10-02-2014, 08:31 AM
Arizona is a damn good football team this year. The defense plays fired up on every play and the offense honestly seems better since Carson went down. Like every game I hope we blow them out but I'm expecting a close game.

Thnikkaman
10-02-2014, 08:50 AM
Super Bowl Preview.

weazel
10-02-2014, 09:39 AM
This game is a toss up. I think SD is going to be a tough game as well.

LawDog
10-02-2014, 10:56 AM
You don't understand why people keep bringing up a CHAMPIONSHIP game historys greatest passing lost by FIVE TOUCHDOWNS? Where the Best. Offense. EVAH! didn't get a FIRST DOWN till the SECOND QUARTER, and didn't get its (only) score till the final play of the THIRD, only narrowly avoiding the First. SB Shutout. EVAH! The thing was shown live all over the PLANET, but you don't get why those 7 billion+ people keep bringing up the time they saw the greatest passing of all time utterly destroyed from kickoff to gun for three solid hours?

I've got friends in Oslo who can clarify it for you. My wifes best friend's a native Norwegian who couldn't care less about American football, but she saw the morning paper and called my wife half-seriously asking if it was safe here or she needed a place to hide out for a while. There are people in North Korea who don't know about the moon landing—but they saw Seattle win a championship beating us like a rented mule. Remember the '90s Bills? WHY?! Bet it's not because of their historically good offenses, any more than you remember the '07 Pats for being the team that set those records we broke.

Yea, we made the postseason and got to a bowl game; I'm sure the alumni association's thrilled about that and doesn't care a bit we got blown out of a game we were NEVER in: WAY "too shabby."

This post right here out Joel's even Joel. Joel on his best day couldn't hope to come anywhere near the level of "wuuuutttt?" contained herein. My jaw, literally, dropped to my keyboard as I read this. Truly, this belongs in the black hole hall of fame. Bravo, I say again, bravo!

Northman
10-02-2014, 11:58 AM
This game is a toss up. I think SD is going to be a tough game as well.

Agreed.

Im not even sure we will win in Narrowhead this year. Chiefs are playing very good football right now as well. They totally decimated the Patriots.

HORSEPOWER 56
10-02-2014, 12:59 PM
I keep seeing comparisons to the Superbowl. In the Superbowl we were missing a lot of key pieces: Clady, Miller, Harris, Moore (Moreno who got hurt early on) and we didn't have Talib, Ware and Ward. Sanders also appears to be an addition to the offense and can stretch the field more than Decker did.

No matter what the numbers say, I think we're an improved team and we're playing at home. I think this game relies on game planning and adjustments more than anything else. Play to our strengths and don't get too conservative too early. We need to come out fast in this one and keep our foot on the gas the whole game. AZ is a tough team, but they aren't a big play team. If we can get them running around early in the mile-high air, they'll tire and be less aggressive.

Krugan
10-02-2014, 01:01 PM
Fully believe we will see .500 sunday.

I just feel this team is not right, and the bugs are not easily fixable with this being game 4 and only week 5.

Just one of those feelings, nothing more.

Northman
10-02-2014, 01:12 PM
Fully believe we will see .500 sunday.

I just feel this team is not right, and the bugs are not easily fixable with this being game 4 and only week 5.

Just one of those feelings, nothing more.


Your not the only one. On paper we look like we should be better but something is missing. As you said, its just a gut feeling and its already tough to make it back to the SB as it is.

tripp
10-02-2014, 01:43 PM
I think we'll be ok. I think the score for Sunday's game will be 31 - 17. We're a healthy team with Welker and Trevathan back. We're playing against Drew Stanton who barely completes most of his passes. We score early and go up 14-0, the game is over.

slim
10-02-2014, 01:46 PM
Peterson vs DT. Should be fun.

Bronco9798
10-02-2014, 02:06 PM
We win going away. No close finish this time. Arizona isn't walking into a good situation this week. Just a gut feeling!!

tripp
10-02-2014, 02:11 PM
We win going away. No close finish this time. Arizona isn't walking into a good situation this week. Just a gut feeling!!

That's what I'm thinking. I think we made the appropriate tweaks, and will be pass heavy this week, taking advantage of their weak linebackers. I feel really good going against Drew Stanton. The past 3 teams Cards have played, the most points they have scored was 25. That's against Chargers, Giants, and San Fran (Without Aldon Smith, and Patrick Willis). This will be our first complete game this season where we play all 4 quarters well.

tomjonesrocks
10-02-2014, 02:16 PM
Fully believe we will see .500 sunday. I just feel this team is not right, and the bugs are not easily fixable with this being game 4 and only week 5. Just one of those feelings, nothing more.

AZ is getting too much respec IMO. They could have easily lost any of the games they won.

Bronco9798
10-02-2014, 02:19 PM
That's what I'm thinking. I think we made the appropriate tweaks, and will be pass heavy this week, taking advantage of their weak linebackers. I feel really good going against Drew Stanton. The past 3 teams Cards have played, the most points they have scored was 25. That's against Chargers, Giants, and San Fran (Without Aldon Smith, and Patrick Willis). This will be our first complete game this season where we play all 4 quarters well.

I'm with you! I have a really good feeling with Stanton at QB going against our D. Trevathian <sp? is back. Hopefully they apply a lot of pressure and force some turnovers. Wouldn't be surprised to see a strip/fumble for a TD or a pick 6 even. I have a really good feeling.

slim
10-02-2014, 02:24 PM
I am really looking forward to watching our pass rush. This is the first QB we have played this year that isn't a threat to run....completely changes the dynamics for us. We can actually pin our ears back a little without worrying about the QB run.

Northman
10-02-2014, 02:29 PM
AZ is getting too much respec IMO. They could have easily lost any of the games they won.

Well, technically so could have we. lmao

Hawgdriver
10-02-2014, 02:45 PM
Last year's Super Bowl doesn't have a damn thing to do with a week 5 game not even played against the same team.

This is seriously getting old.

There was this discussion about the Cards game and then all of a sudden Joel is yelling at me about how the Broncos suck. I don't come to this forum to read posts oozing with contempt for the Broncos. So, luckily for me there is a mute feature.

MOtorboat
10-02-2014, 02:53 PM
AZ is getting too much respec IMO. They could have easily lost any of the games they won.

I think Arizona is a pretty legit team. And they are playing sans their starting quarterback.

CrazyHorse
10-02-2014, 04:32 PM
Sounds like Palmer will not play.

Stanton will be running for his life!

weazel
10-02-2014, 04:58 PM
I see a lot of people say we win big and we go pass heavy... thats fine for now but I dont see this team winning it all if we can't run the ball.

Seeing that Palmer isn't playing I would say we should win for sure.

Bronco9798
10-02-2014, 05:13 PM
I see a lot of people say we win big and we go pass heavy... thats fine for now but I dont see this team winning it all if we can't run the ball.

Seeing that Palmer isn't playing I would say we should win for sure.

Run with who? Monte Ball? Ehhh,,,ugh.....Never liked the pick, still don't.....

sneakers
10-02-2014, 05:23 PM
**** The Cardinals *clap* *clap* *clapclapclap*

oh shit, brewers season is over. :(

never mind

Joel
10-02-2014, 07:17 PM
Run with who? Monte Ball? Ehhh,,,ugh.....Never liked the pick, still don't.....
Because Anderson and Hillman are averaging so much more? One thing Shannys last years in Denver should've taught us is that plug-a-back only works if the blocking's there; if not, even elite backs get average production, and averages ones get nothing.

I still think half the reason Moreno ran with such an authoritative mean streak last season was because he was thoroughly pissed at four seasons of being banged around in the backfield until he limped off the field while fans called him scared and fragile: He finally just said, "to Hell with it: The line'll always let them hit me anyway; I'll hit back and get as much as I can before dragged down by half the defense." That and Thompsons preseason echo of Jim Browns statement he wanted to cause tacklers pain and fear is the SOLE reason I'd like a switch: That may be the ONLY way we can run.

That said, with the beef we've got up front, smashmouth running behind smashmouth blocking might serve us far better than draws and end runs, especially vs. fast alert NFCW defenses.

Bronco9798
10-02-2014, 07:19 PM
Because Anderson and Hillman are averaging so much more? One thing Shannys last years in Denver should've taught us is that plug-a-back only works if the blocking's there; if not, even elite backs get average production, and averages ones get nothing.

I still think half the reason Moreno ran with such an authoritative mean streak last season was because he was thoroughly pissed at four seasons of being banged around in the backfield until he limped off the field while fans called him scared and fragile: He finally just said, "to Hell with it: The line'll always let them hit me anyway; I'll hit back and get as much as I can before dragged down by half the defense." That and Thompsons preseason echo of Jim Browns statement he wanted to cause tacklers pain and fear is the SOLE reason I'd like a switch: That may be the ONLY way we can run.

That said, with the beef we've got up front, smashmouth running behind smashmouth blocking might serve us far better than draws and end runs, especially vs. fast alert NFCW defenses.

I simply said I didn't like the pick. I never said a thing about Moreno, Anderson, or Hillman and your entire response is about them.

Joel
10-02-2014, 07:40 PM
I simply said I didn't like the pick. I never said a thing about Moreno, Anderson, or Hillman and your entire response is about them.
Yeah, I mainly referenced the initial "run with who?" question: Until/unless the blocking improves, the answer's probably irrelevant—it has been so far.... :(

Bronco9798
10-02-2014, 08:04 PM
Yeah, I mainly referenced the initial "run with who?" question: Until/unless the blocking improves, the answer's probably irrelevant—it has been so far.... :(

Very irrelevant. Not sold on our running game. I personally wanted Lacy leading up to and the day of the draft. I watched Ball in College. I watched him run over nobodys in the Big Ten. My comment about him was always, "great college back", we'll see at the next level. Hope I'm wrong cause he's a Bronco and I want him to succeed! We'll see.

Nomad
10-02-2014, 08:12 PM
BRONCOS for the W:defense:

Joel
10-02-2014, 08:17 PM
If we could get T.J. Lang and Josh Sitton instead of Lacy, Ball would probably do just about as well. Hopefully Franklin's got his transition down and can start owning DTs this weekend; if that ever happens, he and Clady together could make us a brutal running team on the left side, but if we keep trying to move him around in a way his days at RT proved beyond him, things probably won't improve much.

I don't know, maybe it's just moving back to a spot he hasn't played since college. Clady doesn't need help in pass OR run protection, and neither does Vasquez, so we ought to be able to give Franklin double team help from Ramirez if it's absolutely necessary, and plow over anyone and everything in front of them. Not so far; Ball's broken a fair amount of tackles for extra yards, but -2+5=3, about our average.

Cugel
10-02-2014, 08:26 PM
Arizona was already a great team last year; again, they won 10 games playing both NFCCG teams twice plus NO and Carolina, giving the SB Champs their ONLY home loss in the last 2½ seasons. In ANY other division (including ours) they're a 12 win team jockeying or a first round bye or even homefield—but they played in the NFCW so they missed the playoffs entirely. All that with a head coach in his first with the team, and a starting QB in his first year on his THIRD team. They were already pretty good, but it's a safe bet they're much better now.

I know it's a home game and that was @Defending SB Champs, but this may be a better test of our season than Seattle was. Arizona may tank by years end like a lot of teams that came roaring out of the gate looking unstoppable in years past—but we're playing them in the midst of that, not in December when they're run out of steam (assuming that even happens.) I really hope the bye's gotten us past the injuries, suspensions and off-field extracurriculars at away games, and gotten our running games stuff together: We'll need everything we've got vs. Arizona.

Everything you said is true, except you omit this:

What are the other top NFC teams? The Seahawks have Russell Wilson. The 49ers have Colin Kaepernick. The Packers have Aaron Rogers and the Saints have Drew Brees. All those guys are elite QBs.

And the Cardinals have Drew Stanton or maybe the Ghost of Carson Palmer. That's been the difference.

And Peyton Manning > Drew Stanton should be the Broncos edge on Sunday too.

Is Drew Stanton playing well so far? Yes. He's having a nice few games. But, there's really no comparison. If Peyton gets outplayed by Drew Stanton then we'll know there's something seriously wrong with the Broncos this season.

Cugel
10-02-2014, 09:04 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Joel
Yeah, I mainly referenced the initial "run with who?" question: Until/unless the blocking improves, the answer's probably irrelevant—it has been so far....

The Broncos are always going to be more of a passing team than a running team anyway. For all the moaning about the run game, the truth is that Seattle has a formula for defensing the Broncos.

Just keep 7 or 8 players in the box and defy the Broncos to run or throw over the top of their defense. That means that Richard Sherman and Byron Maxwell are in a lot of 1 on 1 coverage on the outside. But, they don't care. You can't run into an 8 man front and they are gambling that Michael Bennett is going to get to Peyton in 2.5 seconds or less so he won't have time to throw deep. Then they just jump the underneath routes and blow up the screens and prevent the Broncos from making first downs. It worked in the SB and for 3 quarters in Seattle.

Teams are all going to try and imitate that but, most teams don't have players like Kam Chancellor or Earl Thomas or Sherman or Michael Bennett. Arizona does have Patrick Peterson and Antonio Cromartie so they match up well on the outside. We'll see how well Peyton can get the ball over the top of this defense for big gains if they try and blitz him.

MasterShake
10-03-2014, 10:33 AM
Our offensive line is going to have to hold up against an elite blitzing team this Sunday. If they can do that or we can get our short passing game going to counter it we will be fine. Demaryius might have a hard time again this week with that secondary, so I hope we can soften them up with Sanders downfield. I would LOVE to see some turnovers and sacks from our defense against a journeyman QB as well. Should be a good game against an overlooked team in the NFC right now. I just can't be too nervous because their QB situation is shaky right now, but you have to respect that defense.

Bronco9798
10-03-2014, 10:52 AM
Our offensive line is going to have to hold up against an elite blitzing team this Sunday. If they can do that or we can get our short passing game going to counter it we will be fine. Demaryius might have a hard time again this week with that secondary, so I hope we can soften them up with Sanders downfield. I would LOVE to see some turnovers and sacks from our defense against a journeyman QB as well. Should be a good game against an overlooked team in the NFC right now. I just can't be too nervous because their QB situation is shaky right now, but you have to respect that defense.

They blitz alot. Peytons just too smart to get beat by a blitz. We see it every week. I think they will blitz less this week and play more coverage.

MasterShake
10-03-2014, 11:09 AM
They blitz alot. Peytons just too smart to get beat by a blitz. We see it every week. I think they will blitz less this week and play more coverage.

Well Rivers is good against the blitz (and more mobile, too) and he was flustered all day against them. I think Manning has better weapons overall and will be able to get the ball away, but you are right they might drop into coverage more.

Mike
10-03-2014, 11:12 AM
Everything you said is true, except you omit this:

What are the other top NFC teams? The Seahawks have Russell Wilson. The 49ers have Colin Kaepernick. The Packers have Aaron Rogers and the Saints have Drew Brees. All those guys are elite QBs.

And the Cardinals have Drew Stanton or maybe the Ghost of Carson Palmer. That's been the difference.

And Peyton Manning > Drew Stanton should be the Broncos edge on Sunday too.

Is Drew Stanton playing well so far? Yes. He's having a nice few games. But, there's really no comparison. If Peyton gets outplayed by Drew Stanton then we'll know there's something seriously wrong with the Broncos this season.

You are forgetting Bruce Arians vs. John Fox. Who has the edge there?

MOtorboat
10-03-2014, 11:18 AM
You are forgetting Bruce Arians vs. John Fox. Who has the edge there?

Fox.

MOtorboat
10-03-2014, 11:19 AM
Well Rivers is good against the blitz (and more mobile, too) and he was flustered all day against them. I think Manning has better weapons overall and will be able to get the ball away, but you are right they might drop into coverage more.

Arizona's defense is pretty similar to Pittsburgh's and Manning always seems to have some tricks to counteract all of the pre-snap movement.

slim
10-03-2014, 11:19 AM
Fox.

Arians is damn fine coach, MOhammed.

MOtorboat
10-03-2014, 11:20 AM
Arians is damn fine coach, MOhammed.

So is Fox.

Mike
10-03-2014, 11:45 AM
Fox.

lol.

MOtorboat
10-03-2014, 11:53 AM
lol.

Indeed.

Ravage!!!
10-03-2014, 12:20 PM
Everything you said is true, except you omit this:

What are the other top NFC teams? The Seahawks have Russell Wilson. The 49ers have Colin Kaepernick. The Packers have Aaron Rogers and the Saints have Drew Brees. All those guys are elite QBs.

And the Cardinals have Drew Stanton or maybe the Ghost of Carson Palmer. That's been the difference.

And Peyton Manning > Drew Stanton should be the Broncos edge on Sunday too.

Is Drew Stanton playing well so far? Yes. He's having a nice few games. But, there's really no comparison. If Peyton gets outplayed by Drew Stanton then we'll know there's something seriously wrong with the Broncos this season.

I wouldn't put Kapernick anywehre NEAR elite status.

Ravage!!!
10-03-2014, 12:21 PM
You are forgetting Bruce Arians vs. John Fox. Who has the edge there?

Fox.

Joel
10-03-2014, 03:21 PM
Everything you said is true, except you omit this:

What are the other top NFC teams? The Seahawks have Russell Wilson. The 49ers have Colin Kaepernick. The Packers have Aaron Rogers and the Saints have Drew Brees. All those guys are elite QBs.

And the Cardinals have Drew Stanton or maybe the Ghost of Carson Palmer. That's been the difference.

And Peyton Manning > Drew Stanton should be the Broncos edge on Sunday too.

Is Drew Stanton playing well so far? Yes. He's having a nice few games. But, there's really no comparison. If Peyton gets outplayed by Drew Stanton then we'll know there's something seriously wrong with the Broncos this season.
I agree in principle, and definitely feel more confident since it seems Palmers recovery requires more than just the bye; between that and their starting RB suspended indefinitely for (basically) trying to rape his wife and injuring their son in the process, it certainly seems like we're playing them at the best time (and is thuggery required to play for ANY NFCW team now?)

All that said, this game was never about their offense vs. our defense; just the opposite. Our D shut down Seattle pretty thoroughly last week AND in the SB: We still lost both games (and were never in the SB blowout) because their D shut down our offense completely, scoring as many points of it as WE did last week, and three times as many in the SB.

Our D's playing well and Arizona would be tougher with a healthy Palmer just as Seattle would with Rodgers instead of Wilson—but THEIR D wins their games just as OUR offense wins ours, so our sagging offense is a big concern even with Abraham out for the season. Palmer and Dwyers absence makes our job easier, but it the game still turns on our offense vs. their D, so we need to run well enough to wear them out, keep the ball on their end and avoid Ints and strip-sacks that hand points to their offense without it needing to do anything.


The Broncos are always going to be more of a passing team than a running team anyway. For all the moaning about the run game, the truth is that Seattle has a formula for defensing the Broncos.
Yup, so we better figure out a way to adapt and overcome it. Fortunately, a simple one's been around ever since 1905: Run to establish the pass (or run 'em out of Cover 2, in modern parlance.)


Just keep 7 or 8 players in the box and defy the Broncos to run or throw over the top of their defense. That means that Richard Sherman and Byron Maxwell are in a lot of 1 on 1 coverage on the outside. But, they don't care. You can't run into an 8 man front and they are gambling that Michael Bennett is going to get to Peyton in 2.5 seconds or less so he won't have time to throw deep. Then they just jump the underneath routes and blow up the screens and prevent the Broncos from making first downs. It worked in the SB and for 3 quarters in Seattle.
Except Seattle DOESN'T keep 7-8 players in the box, else we WOULD throw over their heads, as offenses have done against stacked boxes since time began: That's half the point of a solid run game FORCING defenses to stack the box. Seattle does what I've always advocated pass defenses do: Stop leaving receivers uncovered with blitzes and START dropping ALL the LBs into soft zones with a safety deep and another roving so everyone's covered, and some people double covered.

It's certainly far easier with Seattles top safeties, CBs and cover LBs Seattles, and a front four good enough to get consistent pressure without need of a blitz, but it works because it's hard for 3-5 receivers to get open at ANY spot against 7-8 defenders; even the best receivers struggle with double coverage, and Seattle blankets everyone at the expense of LB support against the run. Not that they're bad vs. the run, but that half-second half-step LBs give up for coverage makes them weaker vs. the run than the pass: In 2013 they were #1 vs. the pass but #7 vs. the run; I know which I'd attack.


Teams are all going to try and imitate that but, most teams don't have players like Kam Chancellor or Earl Thomas or Sherman or Michael Bennett. Arizona does have Patrick Peterson and Antonio Cromartie so they match up well on the outside. We'll see how well Peyton can get the ball over the top of this defense for big gains if they try and blitz him.
If they try to blitz, Manning will shred them like he does most blitz-happy teams. We just have too many elite receivers who can beat 1-on-1 coverage on a hot read; unless they can consistently disguise it VERY well pre-snap, Manning will find Welker, or Sanders, or Thomas, or DT for a big gain more often than not. Especially since those bubble screens we love, like all screens, are designed to beat blitzes by exploiting the fact half the defense is on the wrong side of the ball sprinting the wrong direction.

The way to beat a passing hydra is to have two hot irons ready for each head, which blitzing makes impossible. I think we match up well, especially if they're foolish enough to keep blitzing even though their coaches spent much of their careers listening to Mannings detailed explanations of how to burn blitzes with quick reads and throws, but this WILL test us.

Northman
10-03-2014, 03:35 PM
I wouldn't put Kapernick anywehre NEAR elite status.

Yea, Kap is not even close.

Joel
10-03-2014, 04:08 PM
Yea, Kap is not even close.
I agree, but (FWIW) the point was even Kap's better than Stanton or 70% of Palmer, and that's probably true—unfortunately, our offense plays their D, not their QB. I'm confident our D can shutdown their backup QB and backup RB (then again, I thought the same when the Oilers faced Reich and whoever the Hell Thurman Thomas' backup was, and look how that ended.... :() I'm worried Ball and Hillman won't keep both hands on the ball and we'll have three-and-outs and/or throw Ints if forced to, well, FORCE balls in because we can't run. Seattle didn't NEED offense vs. that; neither would Arizona.

wcben
10-03-2014, 04:24 PM
Anyone going to the game? I'm staying in Boulder for the weekend then we have tickets in 505! Can't wait Go Broncos!

Bronco9798
10-03-2014, 07:08 PM
I agree in principle, and definitely feel more confident since it seems Palmers recovery requires more than just the bye; between that and their starting RB suspended indefinitely for (basically) trying to rape his wife and injuring their son in the process, it certainly seems like we're playing them at the best time (and is thuggery required to play for ANY NFCW team now?)

All that said, this game was never about their offense vs. our defense; just the opposite. Our D shut down Seattle pretty thoroughly last week AND in the SB: We still lost both games (and were never in the SB blowout) because their D shut down our offense completely, scoring as many points of it as WE did last week, and three times as many in the SB.

Our D's playing well and Arizona would be tougher with a healthy Palmer just as Seattle would with Rodgers instead of Wilson—but THEIR D wins their games just as OUR offense wins ours, so our sagging offense is a big concern even with Abraham out for the season. Palmer and Dwyers absence makes our job easier, but it the game still turns on our offense vs. their D, so we need to run well enough to wear them out, keep the ball on their end and avoid Ints and strip-sacks that hand points to their offense without it needing to do anything.


Yup, so we better figure out a way to adapt and overcome it. Fortunately, a simple one's been around ever since 1905: Run to establish the pass (or run 'em out of Cover 2, in modern parlance.)


Except Seattle DOESN'T keep 7-8 players in the box, else we WOULD throw over their heads, as offenses have done against stacked boxes since time began: That's half the point of a solid run game FORCING defenses to stack the box. Seattle does what I've always advocated pass defenses do: Stop leaving receivers uncovered with blitzes and START dropping ALL the LBs into soft zones with a safety deep and another roving so everyone's covered, and some people double covered.

It's certainly far easier with Seattles top safeties, CBs and cover LBs Seattles, and a front four good enough to get consistent pressure without need of a blitz, but it works because it's hard for 3-5 receivers to get open at ANY spot against 7-8 defenders; even the best receivers struggle with double coverage, and Seattle blankets everyone at the expense of LB support against the run. Not that they're bad vs. the run, but that half-second half-step LBs give up for coverage makes them weaker vs. the run than the pass: In 2013 they were #1 vs. the pass but #7 vs. the run; I know which I'd attack.


If they try to blitz, Manning will shred them like he does most blitz-happy teams. We just have too many elite receivers who can beat 1-on-1 coverage on a hot read; unless they can consistently disguise it VERY well pre-snap, Manning will find Welker, or Sanders, or Thomas, or DT for a big gain more often than not. Especially since those bubble screens we love, like all screens, are designed to beat blitzes by exploiting the fact half the defense is on the wrong side of the ball sprinting the wrong direction.

The way to beat a passing hydra is to have two hot irons ready for each head, which blitzing makes impossible. I think we match up well, especially if they're foolish enough to keep blitzing even though their coaches spent much of their careers listening to Mannings detailed explanations of how to burn blitzes with quick reads and throws, but this WILL test us.


My god you created a mess here. What did you do? This is crazy!!

Joel
10-03-2014, 08:11 PM
My god you created a mess here. What did you do? This is crazy!!
It may take up space, but adding my avatar, sig and the rest a SECOND time wouldn't have shortened it. ;)

Nomad
10-04-2014, 11:45 AM
BRONCOS will win!