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View Full Version : Chris Harris: Russell Wilson better QB than Luck



Northman
09-22-2014, 03:30 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11568427/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-better-quarterback-andrew-luck-indianapolis-colts-says-chris-harris-denver-broncos


When the quarterback class of the 2012 draft is discussed, Andrew Luck (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14874/andrew-luck) usually gets put at the top of the list, but Denver Broncos (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos) cornerback Chris Harris (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14398/chris-harris) said Sunday that the experts have it wrong because Russell Wilson (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14881/russell-wilson) is clearly the leader of the pack.

Wilson Greater Than Greatshttp://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=i/headshots/nfl/players/full/14881.png&w=65&h=90&scale=crop&background=0xcccccc&transparent=falseGoing opposite the best current quarterbacks in the league brings out the best in Russell Wilson. Here are some of his stats in games against other top QBs:



W-L
TD-Int


Peyton Manning
2-0
4-1


Drew Brees
2-0
3-0


Aaron Rodgers
2-0
4-0


Tom Brady
1-0
3-0










Harris and the Broncos have played both Luck's Indianapolis Colts (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/ind/indianapolis-colts) and Wilson's Seattle Seahawks (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/sea/seattle-seahawks) this season, beating Indianapolis but losing to Seattle. The Seahawks won 26-20 in overtime (http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=400554276) Sunday in a rematch of Super Bowl XLVIII, where Wilson and Seattle overwhelmed the Broncos 43-8.


"He's the best quarterback we've played so far," Harris said of Wilson. "I don't know why they keep saying Andrew Luck is better than him. He's not better than Russell Wilson."
Harris recorded an interception in Sunday's loss, picking off a Wilson pass that was deflected by Aqib Talib (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11254/aqib-talib).


Luck was taken by the Colts with the No. 1 overall pick of the 2012 draft. Wilson wasn't selected by the Seahawks until the third round in 2012, with the 75th overall pick.


After almost getting sacked for a safety and throwing an interception in the fourth quarter Sunday, Wilson was brilliant in overtime, rushing for 21 yards and completing 4 of 6 passes, leading the Seahawks to the winning drive that was culminated by a Marshawn Lynch (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/10456/marshawn-lynch) touchdown run. Wilson finished Sunday's game completing 24 of 34 passes for 258 yards with two touchdowns and the interception by Harris. Wilson also rushed nine times for 40 yards.

TXBRONC
09-22-2014, 03:36 PM
I don't about that. He's good at home but on the road he hasn't been all that good. IIRC he's 9-8 on the road.

Slick
09-22-2014, 03:44 PM
I'd much rather have Luck if I'm choosing between the two. If the two players switched teams Seattle's just as good if not better and the Colts get worse.

Wilson is really good though. Seattle will fall off some when they have to start paying Wilson the going rate for starting QBs. Can't come fast enough.

BroncoWave
09-22-2014, 03:53 PM
Well Chris Harris has faced them both multiple times so who am I to say he's wrong?

Slick
09-22-2014, 04:27 PM
Luck put up 24 against the Denver D in Mile High and Russel managed 20 in his house in 60 minutes.

Harris is high.

Joel
09-22-2014, 05:00 PM
Harris and the Broncos have played both Luck's Indianapolis Colts (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/ind/indianapolis-colts) and Wilson's Seattle Seahawks (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/sea/seattle-seahawks) this season, beating Indianapolis but losing to Seattle.
This surely played NO role in Harris' evaluation, just as half our fans insisting, "Seattle's just better," don't mean "the only thing worse than being runner up to the best is being runner up to a runner up." ;)

I dunno; they're both pretty amazing, and Wilson widly overperforms his draft value, but it's hard for the #1 overall pick of a great QB class to overperform. Oliver Lucks kid's probably a bit more football savvy for the same reason Archie Mannings are, but it's not like Wilsons a careless or casual runner or passer, and his work ethic's reportedly masochistic.

Wilson's a bit better with his feet (he almost singlehandedly forced OT last year against a Texans D that was still very good before injuries decimated it) but may be LESS eager to run. It doesn't take much to convince pressure to convince Luck to take off and do it on his own; Wilson tends to keep looking for options as long as possible, which is part of why he's such a dangerous runner: By the time he takes off, the blitz is already in the backfield and the LBs and DBs have been running a long time in the wrong direction, so he can go a long way before someone catches him.

In some ways it's like Manning (another #1 overall pick) vs. Brady (another dubious college star drafted even LATER than Wilson.) They're probably not equal, but do many of the same things very well, so whatever difference is slight. The big thing is they're both true dual threats: Not just passers who can scramble to avoid the rush and throw a bootleg on the run, nor runners who can blindly heave Hail Maries way downfield to whomever runs under them (from either team,) but accurate pocket passers AND strong shifty open field runners.

There's a very short very elite list of QBs like that. Jim Thorpe was the prototype, but the other names are legendary by even Canton standards and well known to even the youngest causal fan; guys like Tarkenton, Staubach, Elway, Young (the good one) and Cunningham in the SB era (sorry old timers, but I can't go much farther back than that.) There's more now than at perhaps any other time, but still not many; sure, Newton, Smith and Kaep have decent accuracy to match their legs, but Rodgers is the only other QB truly great at passing and running.

I'd rather face Manning or Brady than Rodgers, Luck or Wilson; they can and do make most of the same throws as the best pocket passers, but bring a whole other dimension pure pocket passers lack.

Ravage!!!
09-22-2014, 05:07 PM
Russel Wilson runs a VERY conservative offense that asks him to throw easy, safe, passes. Rarely does Wilson threaten the center of the field, or go deep. If we were redrafting today, I would guarantee that 100% of the GMs (if given the choice) would take Andrew Luck over Russel Wilson.

Joel
09-22-2014, 05:10 PM
Russel Wilson runs a VERY conservative offense that asks him to throw easy, safe, passes. Rarely does Wilson threaten the center of the field, or go deep. If we were redrafting today, I would guarantee that 100% of the GMs (if given the choice) would take Andrew Luck over Russel Wilson.
For what it's worth, Simms remarked during the game that Seattles offensive philosophy is "run first, throw deep," which contradicts the assertion Wilson rarely goes deep. It's Simms though, so....

Ravage!!!
09-22-2014, 05:16 PM
For what it's worth, Simms remarked during the game that Seattles offensive philosophy is "run first, throw deep," which contradicts the assertion Wilson rarely goes deep. It's Simms though, so....

Deep outside balls down the sidelines are safe. Its a "complete or miss everyone" type of throw. I'm not saying they NEVER throw deep, but you don't see Wilson hitting deep crossing routes, or deep seems... OFTEN. He has Percy Harvin with is lightning fast, and he'll hit Percy on the short crossing routes where Percy uses the traffic to get him some room. He'll run up ,threaten defense, and dump off. He's a very "efficient" QB that can give defenses fits...but that offense relies on the outside passes. One thing Wilson is really good at, is hitting the outside passes where its his guy or no one, or, he throws it away.

Which is fine. But if you are going to compare his QB'ing skills to other QBs in the league, we have to establish what he is and what he's good at. Right now, the system he has in Seattle is his best friend.

DenBronx
09-22-2014, 05:17 PM
Both good QBs. Why does it have to be this guys better then the other guy all the time? What Wilson does works great in Seattle. Luck is simply just good at everything he does. Skillset I think id rather have luck but Wilsons not only beaten the best he has a ring to show for it. IMO, you can't go wrong with either guy and BOTH are very likeable guys as well.

Teams draft guys based on how they think they can use them in their system. When Seattle drafted Wilson I think they knew he was going to fit in their play calling style.

BroncoWave
09-22-2014, 05:22 PM
Luck put up 24 against the Denver D in Mile High and Russel managed 20 in his house in 60 minutes.

Harris is high.

I don't comparing two single games is a fair way to rate one guy over the other. I think our D was MUCH more hyped up to play Seattle. Most of Luck's points came late in the game when we stopped being aggressive on defense.

Slick
09-22-2014, 05:28 PM
I don't comparing two single games is a fair way to rate one guy over the other. I think our D was MUCH more hyped up to play Seattle. Most of Luck's points came late in the game when we stopped being aggressive on defense.

I'm sure Harris was talking about them in the context of those two games, that's why I said it. However, I'll admit my post comes off as one of a scorned lover still hurting from a loss yesterday.

BroncoWave
09-22-2014, 05:31 PM
I'm sure Harris was talking about them in the context of those two games, that's why I said it. However, I'll admit my post comes off as one of a scorned lover still hurting from a loss yesterday.

I don't know that we can really speculate that Harris was only comparing based on two games. In the last two seasons, we have played Seattle 4 times and Indy twice counting preseason and postseason. I think those 6 games provide him a pretty decent sample size to judge. I would agree that based on my eye Luck is better, but if Harris is saying otherwise, it gives me pause to maybe rethink that stance.

CrazyHorse
09-22-2014, 05:36 PM
Luck is better but getting Wilson in the 3rd is a better value.

Joel
09-22-2014, 05:40 PM
Deep outside balls down the sidelines are safe. Its a "complete or miss everyone" type of throw. I'm not saying they NEVER throw deep, but you don't see Wilson hitting deep crossing routes, or deep seems... OFTEN. He has Percy Harvin with is lightning fast, and he'll hit Percy on the short crossing routes where Percy uses the traffic to get him some room. He'll run up ,threaten defense, and dump off. He's a very "efficient" QB that can give defenses fits...but that offense relies on the outside passes. One thing Wilson is really good at, is hitting the outside passes where its his guy or no one, or, he throws it away.

Which is fine. But if you are going to compare his QB'ing skills to other QBs in the league, we have to establish what he is and what he's good at. Right now, the system he has in Seattle is his best friend.
Okay, fair enough, but by the same token we can't criticize him for passes the system precludes attempting. Maybe he'd miss 'em all, maybe he'd hit 'em all, and the reality would probably be somewhere in between—but we can never know, because they'd rather have a missed throw go out of bounds than into the hands of a centerfielder, which is just smart. And it makes the deep throws to the center of the field a total unknown for Wilson; all we can do is look at his college tape and a handful of NFL throws, then speculate whether he's better at them than Luck.

I know this much: With the #1 overall pick and a choice between Luck or some other elite talent PLUS Wilson in the third, I'd take the two-for-one in a heartbeat. But that's the draft; TRich went two picks after Luck, and the consensus seems to be Indy made a Vikingesque blunder trading for him (breaks my heart.... ;))

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-22-2014, 05:55 PM
I don't about that. He's good at home but on the road he hasn't been all that good. IIRC he's 9-8 on the road.

That's partly him, and partly due to the fact that their defense is not a record setting defense on the road. Their defense can't play off the crowd noise on the road. Statistically speaking, he's one of the top rated QB's in the league, and it's not accurate to give his running game and defense all of the credit for that. Additionally, his 3rd down stats are amongst the best in the league, and that is indicative of a situation where the defense knows a pass is coming.

I told my son several weeks ago that he scares me more than any other young QB in the league, with the exception of maybe Luck. The game seems to slow down for him in pressure situations. His football IQ is very under-rated. I would take him any day of the week over Kaepernick, and even Newton who I think is a good QB.

TXBRONC
09-22-2014, 09:35 PM
That's partly him, and partly due to the fact that their defense is not a record setting defense on the road. Their defense can't play off the crowd noise on the road. Statistically speaking, he's one of the top rated QB's in the league, and it's not accurate to give his running game and defense all of the credit for that. Additionally, his 3rd down stats are amongst the best in the league, and that is indicative of a situation where the defense knows a pass is coming.

I told my son several weeks ago that he scares me more than any other young QB in the league, with the exception of maybe Luck. The game seems to slow down for him in pressure situations. His football IQ is very under-rated. I would take him any day of the week over Kaepernick, and even Newton who I think is a good QB.

He hasn't been in a position where he's had to carry his had to carry the offense on his back. No being in 3rd down doesn't mean it's an obvious passing down. Considering how much they run and the success they have with it I doubt it's pretty rare for him to be a situation where he doesn't have a run/pass option. The offense they run in Seattle doesn't run through him or his abilities.

Joel
09-22-2014, 10:39 PM
He hasn't been in a position where he's had to carry his had to carry the offense on his back.
He was in EXACTLY that position and did so to get them back into a game they trailed 20-6 at the start of the 4th @Houston last year, but won in OT:


4
15:00
2
11
SEA 1
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass complete short left to Derrick Coleman (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ColeDe00.htm) for 4 yards (tackle by Johnathan Joseph (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoseJo20.htm))
6
20
-0.85
-1.07
98.5


4
14:17
3
7
SEA 5
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass incomplete deep left intended for Doug Baldwin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BaldDo00.htm) (defended by Kareem Jackson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackKa99.htm)). SEA (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2013.htm) challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was overturned. Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass complete deep left to Doug Baldwin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BaldDo00.htm) for 24 yards (tackle by Kareem Jackson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackKa99.htm))
6
20
-1.07
0.87
97.3


4
13:52
1
10
SEA 29
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) up the middle for 25 yards (tackle by Brooks Reed (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReedBr00.htm))
6
20
0.87
2.52
95.5


4
13:21
1
10
HTX 46
Marshawn Lynch (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LyncMa00.htm) up the middle for 4 yards (tackle by Joe Mays (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MaysJo99.htm) and Earl Mitchell (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MitcEa99.htm))
6
20
2.52
2.52
95.9


4
12:51
2
6
HTX 42
Marshawn Lynch (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LyncMa00.htm) left guard for 17 yards (tackle by Johnathan Joseph (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoseJo20.htm))
6
20
2.52
3.91
93.9


4
12:19
1
10
HTX 25
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass complete deep right to Jermaine Kearse (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KearJe01.htm) for 25 yards. Penalty on Jermaine Kearse (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KearJe01.htm): Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards (no play)
6
20
3.91
3.25
95.5


4
12:12
1
20
HTX 35
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass incomplete deep right intended for Golden Tate (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TateGo00.htm)
6
20
3.25
2.01
97.2


4
12:04
2
20
HTX 35
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) up the middle for 13 yards (tackle by D.J. Swearinger (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SweaDJ00.htm))
6
20
2.01
3.07
95.9


4
11:17
3
7
HTX 22
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass complete short left to Doug Baldwin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BaldDo00.htm) for 8 yards (tackle by Danieal Manning (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannDa21.htm))
6
20
3.07
4.65
93.7


4
10:42
1
10
HTX 14
Penalty on SEA (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2013.htm): False Start, 5 yards (no play)
6
20
4.65
4.26
95.0


4
10:23
1
15
HTX 19
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) sacked by Whitney Mercilus (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MercWh00.htm) for -9 yards
6
20
4.26
2.2
97.9


4
9:43
2
24
HTX 28
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) left end for 11 yards (tackle by Danieal Manning (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannDa21.htm))
6
20
2.2
2.93
97.6


4
9:03
3
13
HTX 17
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass complete short left to Golden Tate (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TateGo00.htm) for 10 yards (tackle by Darryl Sharpton (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SharDa01.htm)and Willie Jefferson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JeffWi00.htm))
6
20
2.93
2.99
97.9


4
8:24
4
3
HTX 7
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) right end for 4 yards (tackle by Justin Tuggle (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TuggJu00.htm))
6
20
2.99
6.51
92.3


4
7:48
1
3
HTX 3
Marshawn Lynch (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LyncMa00.htm) left end for 3 yards, touchdown
12
20
6.51
7
94.4


4
7:48


HTX 3
Steven Hauschka (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HausSt00.htm) kicks extra point good
13
20
0
0
91.7


4
7:48


SEA 35
Steven Hauschka (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HausSt00.htm) kicks off 74 yards, touchback


Lynch punched it in from a yard out, and had a decent run earlier, but pretty pretty much that whole 99 yd drive is Wilson going 4/6 for 46 yds and running 4 times for 53—including a critical 4 yd run on 4th and 3 to set them up with 1st and G at the 1; all Lynch did was make up for a couple penalties and Houstons lone sack. C'mon, that's The Drive type performance; the stakes weren't nearly as high, but down 2 TDs at his own ONE YARD LINE to start the 4th the QB runs and passes 99 yds for a TD ON THE ROAD?

I know, I know; Houston finished dead last in 2013: But this was Week 4, before season-ending injuries turned an elite D into Swiss cheese. They bottled up Lynch all day (even with OT, he finished with just under <100 yds, half on a single play) and blanketed all the receivers on that drive—but that left no one left to deal with Wilson who hit 67% of passes and averaged 13 yds/carry while they only sacked him ONCE. Then Schaub showed what an awful QB does (pick-six to Sherman) and they go to OT, where Wilson ran for a first then completed a short pass a Houston penalty turned into another, FG: Game.

Sure, it helped that Schaub was busily playing himself AND his coach out of a job by setting a new record for consecutive games with a pick-six. But down 2 TDs to the start the fourth against an elite D a long way from Seattle pumping crowd noise back through the stadium speakers, most QBs would folded: Wilson gutted out a historically good drive literally the length of the field to get his team back in it any and every way he could.

He's one of the few guys I respect on that team; doesn't pat himself on the back at the top of his lungs, take head-hunt opponents or get busted for partying and juicing. He just quietly and effectively does his job every week and shrugs it off with a smile when reporters ask how great he is or what he has to prove.


No being in 3rd down doesn't mean it's an obvious passing down. Considering how much they run and the success they have with it I doubt it's pretty rare for him to be a situation where he doesn't have a run/pass option. The offense they run in Seattle doesn't run through him or his abilities.
Yeah, that's called, "having an offense;" we should TOTALLY look into doing that someday. Sure it's a lot easier when the defense doesn't know the playcall before the offense because the offense can actualy do more than ONE thing well: That's how football works. Carroll's not playing chess while Fox plays checkers; he's playing chess while Fox plays tic-tac-toe (OUR coach never saw "WarGames.")

It's kind of strange to criticize a QB who does many things well and rarely does anything wrong, solely on the grounds he has a good offense.

MOtorboat
09-22-2014, 11:31 PM
Wilson > Manning.

God damn is Joel giddy.

Joel
09-23-2014, 01:17 AM
Wilson > Manning.

God damn is Joel giddy.
There you go making crap up again. If Manning's our RB—let alone ALL FIVE RUN BLOCKERS—we're in crap deeper than most of your replies to me (which is "step ladder to get out" territory.)

MOtorboat
09-23-2014, 01:26 AM
There you go making crap up again. If Manning's our RB—let alone ALL FIVE RUN BLOCKERS—we're in crap deeper than most of your replies to me (which is "step ladder to get out" territory.)

I haven't made up shit.

You get so unbelievably giddy when the Broncos lose, you can't help yourself.

And here we are again.

Joel
09-23-2014, 01:38 AM
I haven't made up shit.

You get so unbelievably giddy when the Broncos lose, you can't help yourself.

And here we are again.
Then how'd "Seattle beat Houston" become "Wilson>Manning"? I NEVER even INDIRECTLY referenced PFM in that WHOLE post: YOU inserted him to "rebut" a claim NEVER MADE. Sadly par for the course.

Like I already said, here we are again: You fabricating strawmen to create a dispute just for the sake of winning it and calling someone a bad fan.

TXBRONC
09-23-2014, 06:56 AM
He was in EXACTLY that position and did so to get them back into a game they trailed 20-6 at the start of the 4th @Houston last year, but won in OT:


4
15:00
2
11
SEA 1
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass complete short left to Derrick Coleman (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ColeDe00.htm) for 4 yards (tackle by Johnathan Joseph (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoseJo20.htm))
6
20
-0.85
-1.07
98.5


4
14:17
3
7
SEA 5
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass incomplete deep left intended for Doug Baldwin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BaldDo00.htm) (defended by Kareem Jackson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackKa99.htm)). SEA (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2013.htm) challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was overturned. Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass complete deep left to Doug Baldwin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BaldDo00.htm) for 24 yards (tackle by Kareem Jackson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackKa99.htm))
6
20
-1.07
0.87
97.3


4
13:52
1
10
SEA 29
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) up the middle for 25 yards (tackle by Brooks Reed (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReedBr00.htm))
6
20
0.87
2.52
95.5


4
13:21
1
10
HTX 46
Marshawn Lynch (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LyncMa00.htm) up the middle for 4 yards (tackle by Joe Mays (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MaysJo99.htm) and Earl Mitchell (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MitcEa99.htm))
6
20
2.52
2.52
95.9


4
12:51
2
6
HTX 42
Marshawn Lynch (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LyncMa00.htm) left guard for 17 yards (tackle by Johnathan Joseph (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoseJo20.htm))
6
20
2.52
3.91
93.9


4
12:19
1
10
HTX 25
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass complete deep right to Jermaine Kearse (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KearJe01.htm) for 25 yards. Penalty on Jermaine Kearse (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KearJe01.htm): Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards (no play)
6
20
3.91
3.25
95.5


4
12:12
1
20
HTX 35
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass incomplete deep right intended for Golden Tate (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TateGo00.htm)
6
20
3.25
2.01
97.2


4
12:04
2
20
HTX 35
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) up the middle for 13 yards (tackle by D.J. Swearinger (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SweaDJ00.htm))
6
20
2.01
3.07
95.9


4
11:17
3
7
HTX 22
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass complete short left to Doug Baldwin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BaldDo00.htm) for 8 yards (tackle by Danieal Manning (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannDa21.htm))
6
20
3.07
4.65
93.7


4
10:42
1
10
HTX 14
Penalty on SEA (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2013.htm): False Start, 5 yards (no play)
6
20
4.65
4.26
95.0


4
10:23
1
15
HTX 19
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) sacked by Whitney Mercilus (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MercWh00.htm) for -9 yards
6
20
4.26
2.2
97.9


4
9:43
2
24
HTX 28
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) left end for 11 yards (tackle by Danieal Manning (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannDa21.htm))
6
20
2.2
2.93
97.6


4
9:03
3
13
HTX 17
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) pass complete short left to Golden Tate (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TateGo00.htm) for 10 yards (tackle by Darryl Sharpton (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SharDa01.htm)and Willie Jefferson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JeffWi00.htm))
6
20
2.93
2.99
97.9


4
8:24
4
3
HTX 7
Russell Wilson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm) right end for 4 yards (tackle by Justin Tuggle (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TuggJu00.htm))
6
20
2.99
6.51
92.3


4
7:48
1
3
HTX 3
Marshawn Lynch (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LyncMa00.htm) left end for 3 yards, touchdown
12
20
6.51
7
94.4


4
7:48


HTX 3
Steven Hauschka (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HausSt00.htm) kicks extra point good
13
20
0
0
91.7


4
7:48


SEA 35
Steven Hauschka (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HausSt00.htm) kicks off 74 yards, touchback


Lynch punched it in from a yard out, and had a decent run earlier, but pretty pretty much that whole 99 yd drive is Wilson going 4/6 for 46 yds and running 4 times for 53—including a critical 4 yd run on 4th and 3 to set them up with 1st and G at the 1; all Lynch did was make up for a couple penalties and Houstons lone sack. C'mon, that's The Drive type performance; the stakes weren't nearly as high, but down 2 TDs at his own ONE YARD LINE to start the 4th the QB runs and passes 99 yds for a TD ON THE ROAD?

I know, I know; Houston finished dead last in 2013: But this was Week 4, before season-ending injuries turned an elite D into Swiss cheese. They bottled up Lynch all day (even with OT, he finished with just under <100 yds, half on a single play) and blanketed all the receivers on that drive—but that left no one left to deal with Wilson who hit 67% of passes and averaged 13 yds/carry while they only sacked him ONCE. Then Schaub showed what an awful QB does (pick-six to Sherman) and they go to OT, where Wilson ran for a first then completed a short pass a Houston penalty turned into another, FG: Game.

Sure, it helped that Schaub was busily playing himself AND his coach out of a job by setting a new record for consecutive games with a pick-six. But down 2 TDs to the start the fourth against an elite D a long way from Seattle pumping crowd noise back through the stadium speakers, most QBs would folded: Wilson gutted out a historically good drive literally the length of the field to get his team back in it any and every way he could.

He's one of the few guys I respect on that team; doesn't pat himself on the back at the top of his lungs, take head-hunt opponents or get busted for partying and juicing. He just quietly and effectively does his job every week and shrugs it off with a smile when reporters ask how great he is or what he has to prove.


Yeah, that's called, "having an offense;" we should TOTALLY look into doing that someday. Sure it's a lot easier when the defense doesn't know the playcall before the offense because the offense can actualy do more than ONE thing well: That's how football works. Carroll's not playing chess while Fox plays checkers; he's playing chess while Fox plays tic-tac-toe (OUR coach never saw "WarGames.")

It's kind of strange to criticize a QB who does many things well and rarely does anything wrong, solely on the grounds he has a good offense.

Apparently you don't watch them play at all because he doesn't have carry his team every week to win,. The Houston game is an example of how the Seattle's defense turn the game around. You would know that if you had watched the game. :coffee:

Joel
09-23-2014, 07:44 AM
I rarely stay up watch Seattle (that and their Colts disaster are the only ones I think I watched last year,) but they happened to be playing Houston early enough I still had some hope the Texans great D and running game could make up for Schaubs total worthless, maybe not enough for a SB, but for a deep enough playoff run to save Kubiaks job long enough to dump Schaub. Guess not.


Apparently you don't watch them play at all because he doesn't have carry his team every week to win,. The Houston game is an example of how the Seattle's defense turn the game around. You would know that if you had watched the game. :coffee:
Frankly, Wilsons stats don't look as good as I remembered—but still darned good. C'mon: Dude PERSONALLY gained 99 yds on a SINGLE drive trailing by 2 TDs in the 4th. From 1st and 10 at their 1 to 1st and G at Houstons after his 4 yd run on 3rd and 3. Seriously, what more can a QB do? The field's only 100 yds; 99 yds with his arm and legs is pretty much the best ANYONE can mathematically do.

How did his D "turn the game around"? Not letting Mr. Pick-Six hang THIRTY on them? Schaubs pick-sixes are common "accomplishments" but Wilson ALREADY cut the deficit from 20-6 to 20-13 almost singlehandedly BEFORE that: THAT'S what reversed the game. Claiming otherwise is like saying our last regulation drive @Seattle "turned the game around" by tying it to force OT, as if the safety and pick in THEIR red zone to improve 17-3 to 17-12 were just incidental gifts from that awful Seahawks offense. Let's see if I can match all the strawmen and ad homs to their authors:

You think I don't watch the games,
Rav thinks I've no jock in my jock,
Jaded thinks I'm gay for a guy who hasn't played a down since 2012,
MO thinks I think... whatever he needs me to think
and both the last two think I'm not a "real" fan.

That about cover it? I haven't seen so much contrived, fabricated outright libel since the last presidential debates.

thunndarr
09-23-2014, 09:20 AM
Here's a quick theory, and maybe it's common knowledge but I have yet to see anyone address it. Seattle has a more talented top to bottom team simply based on the fact that it's saving about $20 million/year in salary cap space at the moment by having Wilson at QB vs. an established elite QB. This allows them to load up at other positions such as offensive line/defense and allows them to match up better across the board vs. other teams that are paying big bucks at QB. This talent advantage takes the form of a good push from the O-line, which translates into a defense selling out to stop the run, which opens the offense for easier throws/runs by Wilson.

How did they do this? Well, they won the lottery by having Wilson turn out to be such a good player. Let's face it, even Seattle didn't know he was going to be so good because if they did, they would have chosen him in the first round. I'm thinking that when Wilson gets his big contract, we'll see a lot less dominant Seattle team.

TXBRONC
09-23-2014, 11:08 AM
Here's a quick theory, and maybe it's common knowledge but I have yet to see anyone address it. Seattle has a more talented top to bottom team simply based on the fact that it's saving about $20 million/year in salary cap space at the moment by having Wilson at QB vs. an established elite QB. This allows them to load up at other positions such as offensive line/defense and allows them to match up better across the board vs. other teams that are paying big bucks at QB. This talent advantage takes the form of a good push from the O-line, which translates into a defense selling out to stop the run, which opens the offense for easier throws/runs by Wilson.

How did they do this? Well, they won the lottery by having Wilson turn out to be such a good player. Let's face it, even Seattle didn't know he was going to be so good because if they did, they would have chosen him in the first round. I'm thinking that when Wilson gets his big contract, we'll see a lot less dominant Seattle team.

I heard this before and there is truth to it. They don't have to spend a lot of money on Wilson because he was a third round pick but that also been true of several of their star players on both sides of the ball.

Buff
09-23-2014, 11:15 AM
Luck has a higher ceiling, is a better pure passer and will likely have a more successful passing career.

Wilson is the master of efficiency. He is the ultimate game manager. Doesn't make mistakes and beats you with hidden yards that he picks up in handfuls with his scrambles. He is tougher to beat right now because of his supporting cast and playing style.

BroncoNut
09-23-2014, 11:21 AM
Well Chris Harris has faced them both multiple times so who am I to say he's wrong?

my immediate take .

Joel
09-24-2014, 02:23 AM
I heard this before and there is truth to it. They don't have to spend a lot of money on Wilson because he was a third round pick but that also been true of several of their star players on both sides of the ball.
And drugs; butt loads of drugs. Finding a late round hidden gem is one thing, (and they got several stars in early rounds when they were awful in a division so bad they won it with a LOSING team one year) but about HALF Seattles roster is guys EVERY team (including theirs) passed on half a dozen times—and suddenly they're all Pro Bowlers? Bull; there's a reason Browner fled to the CFL to avoid PED testing, a reason he came back once they STARTED testing, and a reason he popped for drugs THREE YEARS STRAIGHT on his return.

Sherman can hand wave his revoked suspension on the grounds "half the League's on" Adderall, but half the league's not giving crazy-eyed post game rants on national television like, I dunno, someone tweaking out of their minds on speed and 'roid-raging hard. How many drug suspenions have they had the last three years—and how many STUCK?

After that, just throw in a lot of head hunting—even of TEAMMATES. Seattle often practices with pads over all the legal areas, to teach players where to legally cheap shot opponents, and Carroll's been fined twice in three years for turning no-contact practices into yes-contact practices in violation of union mandated safety restrictions. They were the NFLs most penalized team last year for the same reason Davis' Raiders always were: "Just win championships, baby." Seattle wins a LOT of games doing dirty injurious crap the NFL tolerates from NO ONE else, and I don't mean just cut blocks.

Hawgdriver
09-24-2014, 09:20 AM
I haven't made up shit.

You get so unbelievably giddy when the Broncos lose, you can't help yourself.

And here we are again.

I notice this too and it bothers me. I think Joel the Texas farmer just wants to come through to harvest the well-tended I-told-ya-so's that ripened (many die on the vine). Just farmin his field, not exactly gloating about Broncos misfortunes. Sometimes we want to be right more than anything. But who knows.

Hawgdriver
09-24-2014, 09:22 AM
Luck has a higher ceiling, is a better pure passer and will likely have a more successful passing career.

Wilson is the master of efficiency. He is the ultimate game manager. Doesn't make mistakes and beats you with hidden yards that he picks up in handfuls with his scrambles. He is tougher to beat right now because of his supporting cast and playing style.

Good take. The question I keep asking is, is Wilson the better player, *all* things considered?

Joel
09-24-2014, 09:47 AM
I notice this too and it bothers me. I think Joel the Texas farmer just wants to come through to harvest the well-tended I-told-ya-so's that ripened (many die on the vine). Just farmin his field, not exactly gloating about Broncos misfortunes. Sometimes we want to be right more than anything. But who knows.
Remember our pre-SB discussion, and my comment after the game? "Sometimes I really hate being right." Not that I always am, but WHEN I am, it's frequently frustrating as Hell. Maybe I should try channelling our Pollyannas (and, to be clear, I'm not saying you're among them) so when I'm right I get to feel all warm and fuzzy about it instead of wondering if I have enough scotch left.

Bronco9798
09-24-2014, 09:54 AM
I'd take Luck any day over Wilson. You put Luck on Seattle and nothing changes. Still a very good team and I think even better with luck, if that's possible. You put Wilson on Indy and he couldn't bring them to the level Seattle is. I think that made sense, maybe not.

BroncoNut
09-24-2014, 10:00 AM
I'd take Luck any day over Wilson. You put Luck on Seattle and nothing changes. Still a very good team and I think even better with luck, if that's possible. You put Wilson on Indy and he couldn't bring them to the level Seattle is. I think that made sense, maybe not.

I think I get what you are saying. and maybe better with Luck (Seattle). other than that may not be a fair comparison because is Indy at the level of Seattle right now (with Luck?) no, they are not. I don't know who I'd take, probably Andrew because I think he's a better leader overall.

broncofaninfla
09-24-2014, 10:10 AM
Wilson is slowly earning the title of an elite QB. Much deserved credit y Harris. It's debatable to say who's better between he and Luck but right now Wilson is playing as good as any QB in the league right now.

Hawgdriver
09-24-2014, 10:29 AM
I think I get what you are saying. and maybe better with Luck (Seattle). other than that may not be a fair comparison because is Indy at the level of Seattle right now (with Luck?) no, they are not. I don't know who I'd take, probably Andrew because I think he's a better leader overall.

I think so too. A lot of experts say he's the best baller to come along in a decade or more. Period.

But Wilson has great moxie, and might be even more competitive if that's possible.

Joel
09-24-2014, 11:28 AM
I think so too. A lot of experts say he's the best baller to come along in a decade or more. Period.

But Wilson has great moxie, and might be even more competitive if that's possible.
Quite possible. I still think Lucks pedigree (like Mannings) gives him more football knowledge, but it also means he didn't have to fight and scrap his way onto two different college rosters before an NFL team "reached" with a third round pick in a league where nearly EVERY starting QB (good or not) was drafted in the 2nd or higher. Wilson's so consistently soft-spoken and humble in interviews it's obvious he's worked on it, but it's impossible to believe he's not playing with a huge chip Luck has NEVER had on his shoulder.

Understand, none of that's to say Luck (or Manning) aren't as good as advertised, or even that living up to their starting-pro pedigrees doesn't give them an entirely different kind of motivation. But neither has anything to prove the way Wilson does.

Simple Jaded
09-26-2014, 10:51 PM
Why can't todays professional athletes keep their ******* mouth shut?