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Denver Native (Carol)
09-17-2014, 11:55 AM
The Pro Football Hall of Fame announced its preliminary list of 99 players and 14 coaches as modern-era candidates for its class of 2015.

The Broncos are well represented with eight players and coach Dan Reeves. The eight Bronco players: Receiver Rod Smith, running back Terrell Davis, center Tom Nalen, guard Mark Schlereth, linebacker Karl Mecklenburg, safeties Steve Atwater and John Lynch, and kicker Jason Elam, who is eligible for the first time.

rest - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2014/09/16/nine-broncos-among-hall-fame-nominees/29705/

atwater27
09-17-2014, 12:00 PM
Let em all in!

DenBronx
09-17-2014, 12:14 PM
All of them....all!

Ziggy
09-17-2014, 12:20 PM
Lynch will go in as a Buc.

BroncoJoe
09-17-2014, 12:24 PM
Lynch will go in as a Buc.

Now days they just list the teams they played for - not a specific team.

Northman
09-17-2014, 01:00 PM
In other words, because its the HALL none of those guys will make it in.

TXBRONC
09-17-2014, 01:06 PM
I love to see all of them get in but even with that many on ballot the selection committee finds reasons why former Broncos do not belong.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-17-2014, 01:12 PM
In other words, because its the HALL none of those guys will make it in.

Exactly - just like most years - load up the initial list with Broncos, and drop them one by one before the final decisions are made.

BroncoJoe
09-17-2014, 01:16 PM
99 players and 14 coaches?

that's a lot of people.

Joel
09-17-2014, 03:43 PM
Rod belongs in the Hall, but one of the classiest things about him (i.e. not blowing his own horn in the age of Ochicinco and Mr. Popcorn and Sharpies) sadly works against him. He was never flashy on or off the field, just did his job and got the job done every week of every season. It's disappointing Mecklenburg and Atwater aren't ALREADY in, but timing may hurt Atwater, too, 'cause the style that sent him to Pro Bowls and Super Bowls would get him banned now. Terrell Davis belongs there, too, but will always because his dominant career was only as long as that of HoFers Earl Campbell and Gale Sayers.

As for the rest: Don't hold your breath on anyone but Lynch. Schlereth's a guard, so good luck, and Nalen's chances are only slightly better at center, while Jan Stenerud's the ONLY pure kicker in Canton.

CoachChaz
09-17-2014, 03:48 PM
Living in Cowboys Country I always ask people that since Michael Irvin is in, if another player had almost identical stats as he does with only one less ring belong in the Hall of Fame? Every one of them says yes. Then I ask them if they think Rod Smith belongs in the Hall of Fame and the vast majority of them say no.

That's the problem with voting is it sadly includes name recognition. Maybe Irvin wouldnt be in the Hall if he played on a different team and wasnt a loud mouth. Maybe Smith would already be in if he acted more like Irvin. Nevertheless...I think Rod should be included.

Ravage!!!
09-17-2014, 03:50 PM
at the same time, I'm glad football HoF is different than baseball and that there is more to it than stats alone.

Davii
09-17-2014, 05:58 PM
Living in Cowboys Country I always ask people that since Michael Irvin is in, if another player had almost identical stats as he does with only one less ring belong in the Hall of Fame? Every one of them says yes. Then I ask them if they think Rod Smith belongs in the Hall of Fame and the vast majority of them say no.

That's the problem with voting is it sadly includes name recognition. Maybe Irvin wouldnt be in the Hall if he played on a different team and wasnt a loud mouth. Maybe Smith would already be in if he acted more like Irvin. Nevertheless...I think Rod should be included.

Oh, and BTW, he was undrafted.

Dean
09-17-2014, 06:21 PM
Randy Gradishar's absence from the hall speaks volumes as to the weight that the voters place on production.

Dzone
09-17-2014, 06:21 PM
Every one of those guys should be in the hall, except Elam. The hof is a sham as long as TD is left out year after year after year. What a joke

ShaneFalco
09-17-2014, 06:22 PM
i voted for TD, but it will be Warner, Pace, Holt, and Bruce. maybe even D Vermeil.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-17-2014, 07:50 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/16/preliminary-hall-of-fame-ballot-announced/

This should make Broncos' fans happy - Phil Simms is on the list for QB's:lol:

Denver Native (Carol)
09-17-2014, 07:51 PM
i voted for TD, but it will be Warner, Pace, Holt, and Bruce. maybe even D Vermeil.

Where did you vote at?

spikerman
09-17-2014, 07:54 PM
i voted for TD, but it will be Warner, Pace, Holt, and Bruce. maybe even D Vermeil.

Vermeil won one SB. I don't see him getting in.

FanInAZ
09-17-2014, 08:06 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe that only a maximum of 6 or 8 are allowed in each year. Their might also be a 3 or 4 minimum as well.

wcben
09-18-2014, 08:21 AM
If Holt gets in before Rod I'll eat a shoe.. c'mon that is downright blasphemous

OrangeHoof
09-18-2014, 10:54 AM
All those Broncos are on the ballot because they keep getting passed over for induction.

No such waiting line for Steelers and Cowboys. They just sail right in.

Slick
09-18-2014, 11:13 AM
i voted for TD, but it will be Warner, Pace, Holt, and Bruce. maybe even D Vermeil.

No way all those Rams are getting in in the same class.

Valar Morghulis
09-18-2014, 11:37 AM
If i was TD - i would tell them to shove canton up their self righteous asses, he should have been a first ballot. The guy was a beast

Dzone
09-18-2014, 11:43 AM
League MVP, SuperBowl MVP and a 2,000 yard season for TD, and the HOF still puts Curtis Martin in instead of him. That in itself discredits the entire selection process

TXBRONC
09-18-2014, 01:31 PM
No way all those Rams are getting in in the same class.

As far as I know the Selection committee has never selected two or more players from the same team into the Hall of Fame at the same time.

Joel
09-18-2014, 05:53 PM
Vermeil won one SB. I don't see him getting in.
He also coached Philly to their first SB appearance, and coached KC to double digit wins twice; to get an idea of how much of that was Vermeil, consider that two years after he left KC was 4-12, then 2-14, then 4-12 again (the moral of that story is "don't expect a former player to run a team better than the coach who taught him," not that he gave them much choice.) Few coaches can leave the NFL for 15 years after their first SB, then come back and win their first just three years later. Vermeil belongs in the Hall, IMO, far more than most of the nominees from his Rams teams.

BroncoWave
09-18-2014, 06:25 PM
I think it's kinda funny that some of the same people who are calling fans idiots for thinking Phil Simms is biased against the Broncos are some of the same fans who go on and on every year about how the HOF committee is biased against the Broncos.

While there are a disproportionate amount of Cowboys and Steelers in the hall, I don't really think there are a disproportionately low number of Broncos in there as compared to other teams. Do we have guys who should be in but aren't? Sure? But I'm sure 31 other fanbases have guys they feel that way about too.

Slick
09-18-2014, 07:03 PM
I think it's kinda funny that some of the same people who are calling fans idiots for thinking Phil Simms is biased against the Broncos are some of the same fans who go on and on every year about how the HOF committee is biased against the Broncos.

While there are a disproportionate amount of Cowboys and Steelers in the hall, I don't really think there are a disproportionately low number of Broncos in there as compared to other teams. Do we have guys who should be in but aren't? Sure? But I'm sure 31 other fanbases have guys they feel that way about too.

6 Superbowls though. Not many teams can say that.

The HOF committee has broken my give a damn however. I've given up hope for a lot of our guys.

7DnBrnc53
09-18-2014, 07:55 PM
He also coached Philly to their first SB appearance, and coached KC to double digit wins twice; to get an idea of how much of that was Vermeil, consider that two years after he left KC was 4-12, then 2-14, then 4-12 again (the moral of that story is "don't expect a former player to run a team better than the coach who taught him," not that he gave them much choice.) Few coaches can leave the NFL for 15 years after their first SB, then come back and win their first just three years later. Vermeil belongs in the Hall, IMO, far more than most of the nominees from his Rams teams.

Vermeil's successes were a fluke, in some ways.

1. In Philadelphia, he shouldn't have won more than one playoff game. In 78, they only get to the playoffs because of the Miracle at the Meadowlands. In 79, they should have lost to Chicago. The officials made some bad calls in that one. Then, in 80, they were lucky that Atlanta choked against the Cryboys. They also lost to the Giants in the 81 WC. He did turn that team around, but he was also way too demanding and uptight, and that style may have cost his team SB XV to a degree.

2. With the Rams, he was on his way to being fired after 1998. Then, he gets Holt and Faulk, and Kurt Warner somehow turns out to be way better than they could have even dreamed. Even then, they almost lose to Tampa in the NFC Title Game, and then they barely escape OT against Tennessee.

3. In KC, the only year he had was that 13-3 2003 team, and that team was a paper tiger. The game that sticks out was the one where Dante Hall got a long punt return against the Broncos because he benefited from several clips that weren't called.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-18-2014, 08:21 PM
http://unclemikesmusings.blogspot.com/2014/02/pro-football-hall-of-famers-by-team-2014.html

crazbarker
09-19-2014, 03:38 AM
Storylines have to be very difficult to attach to a potential hof, especially a coach. Yes vermeil was a very inspiring lovable and emotional coach, however his case is simply being at the right place at the right time. You could throw coach Allen of the raiders at the helm of that extraordinary spread offense team and they still would of waved the trophy. Personally, its a love hate relationship with Reeves, because of the internal head bumping between bowlen and elway. For fun, if I were to choose the coach and the only 2 categories were storylines and stats, I would say Marty schotenheimer(sp). Also I wanted to add that what Hester did today is simply going to be a record that will take decades, if ever, to get broken. I played pw football and hs ball and returning punts especially kickoffs was the scariest and most unpredictable thing to do(I thought/think) on the gridiron. Other notable studs I remember at this pos. Eric metcalf, Dave megget, Brian Mitchell. These guys had full careers at these positions and were successful.

BroncoWave
09-19-2014, 07:04 AM
http://unclemikesmusings.blogspot.com/2014/02/pro-football-hall-of-famers-by-team-2014.html

Wait, so the Steelers are 3rd in the number of hall of famers and the Cowboys are 8th? The way people talk on here, you'd think those were the only two teams that have hall of famers. I wonder why no one complains that the Packers and Bears have too many guys in there.

And you'd also think that Denver was dead last in hall of famers. 18th is probably a little low considering our franchise history, but it's not like the committee completely ignores us. We definitely have some snubs but like I said, I'm sure every other fanbase thinks they have snubs too.

You also have to consider, many of the franchises ahead of us have been around WAY longer than the Broncos, so they racked up on a bunch of hall of famers from the early years of the NFL. By the time the Broncos came around pro football had already been around for like 30 something years, so we already had a bunch of catching up to do to teams like the Browns, Lions, Bears, Cowboys, Packers, etc.

Joel
09-19-2014, 01:22 PM
6 Superbowls though. Not many teams can say that.
No, Pitt has 6 SBs, but Dallas "only" 5; that's the SOLE postseason difference: They're tied for most SB and playoff appearances ever, but Pitt winning the best-of-three makes them 6-2 in SBs and Dallas 5-3. 2-5 compares poorly, especially since all 5 losses were blowouts; the only time Dallas OR Pitt lost by >1 score was when Dallas beat Pitt 27-17 in SB XXX. Dallas also has the pretty much untouchable record for most consecutive winning seasons (1966-1985) which tends to earn a little fame.


Wait, so the Steelers are 3rd in the number of hall of famers and the Cowboys are 8th? The way people talk on here, you'd think those were the only two teams that have hall of famers. I wonder why no one complains that the Packers and Bears have too many guys in there.
People used to, especially when the Packers sucked in the '70s and '80s, but if we go all the way back to the NFLs founding GB still has more championships than anyone, and Chicago won a lot then, too (ironically and notably, two exceptions were when they recorded perfect seasons only to lose the Championship Game ala the '07 Patriots.) The NFC Championship Trophy's named after Chicagos longtime player/coach, so it stands to reason they have lots of HoFers.

And you'd also think that Denver was dead last in hall of famers. 18th is probably a little low considering our franchise history, but it's not like the committee completely ignores us. We definitely have some snubs but like I said, I'm sure every other fanbase thinks they have snubs too.


You also have to consider, many of the franchises ahead of us have been around WAY longer than the Broncos, so they racked up on a bunch of hall of famers from the early years of the NFL. By the time the Broncos came around pro football had already been around for like 30 something years, so we already had a bunch of catching up to do to teams like the Browns, Lions, Bears, Cowboys, Packers, etc.
That's a big part of it, yeah, though (just for the record,) the Cowboys are essentially the same age as the Broncos. The difference is they had Landry, and only needed 5 years from their founding to reach a contender status they held for the next 20 years, then rebuilt from nothing to become the first team to win 3 SBs in 4 years. Despite equal ages, Dallas made 6 NFCCGs and 2 SBs (winning one) by the time Denver had its FIRST WINNING SEASON, and it was 4 more years before Denvers first playoff berth sent them to the SB against Dallas, who'd already played another in the interim.

Think of all the most flawlessly dominant dynasties since the merger:

Lombardis Packers
The Steel Curtain, complemented by Harris, Swann and Bradshaw
Walshs '49ers with Montana and Young complemented by a punishing D

Dallas faced them ALL but came away with a 5-3 SB record and an 8-8 NFCCG record (despite facing Lombardis Pack and Walshs '49ers in 4 of them.) Except for a brief mid-eighties rebuild, they were contenders and frequent champions from the mid-sixties till the late nineties; if anything, they should have MORE HoFers.

Joel
09-19-2014, 01:23 PM
Vermeil's successes were a fluke, in some ways.

1. In Philadelphia, he shouldn't have won more than one playoff game. In 78, they only get to the playoffs because of the Miracle at the Meadowlands. In 79, they should have lost to Chicago. The officials made some bad calls in that one. Then, in 80, they were lucky that Atlanta choked against the Cryboys. They also lost to the Giants in the 81 WC. He did turn that team around, but he was also way too demanding and uptight, and that style may have cost his team SB XV to a degree.
Yes, but Phillys owner made Vermeil coach his first TWO seasons with NO first round draft pick; that has to add to the luster of taking them from nothing to a SB in just 4 years. And I don't think facing Dallas in the 1980 NFCCG was "lucky" or Atlanta "choked:" The Falcons were a losing team the season before AND after, but for Dallas it was the season after a SB loss to Pitt and before The Catch in a third straight NFCCG appearance. Phillys only "luck" was winning the division tiebreak so Dallas had to play an extra playoff game before the rubber game for a trip to the SB.


2. With the Rams, he was on his way to being fired after 1998. Then, he gets Holt and Faulk, and Kurt Warner somehow turns out to be way better than they could have even dreamed. Even then, they almost lose to Tampa in the NFC Title Game, and then they barely escape OT against Tennessee.
1998 was only two years after he arrived on a team that hadn't had a winning season since 1989, rarely winning >5 games, and has been pretty awful ever since he left. Vermeil's never been a defensive genius, but the Rams D actually managed to get (a lot) worse after Martz took charge (though it probably didn't matter against NEs cameramen.) I can't fault Vermeil taking a 6-10 team to 5-9 and then 4-12—but taking them to 13-3 SB Champs the very next season's impressive: It's just not Vermeils SOLE achievement, nor even close.


3. In KC, the only year he had was that 13-3 2003 team, and that team was a paper tiger. The game that sticks out was the one where Dante Hall got a long punt return against the Broncos because he benefited from several clips that weren't called.
He had a 10-6 team that managed to miss the playoffs the year Plummer imploded in the AFCCG, but the real testament to Vermeils KC achievements remains their total prolonged collapse after he left: 2006 was an OK 9 win season, but after that it took them THREE FULL YEARS to win as many games as their last year with Vermeil. That team WAS a paper tiger: Yet Vermeil coached it to 13-3 one season and 10-6 two years later—then he retired again and they almost immediately became and remained hopeless without him; they're just starting to recover (maybe...) a DECADE later.

On top of all that, sure, Vermeils broadcast experience burnishes his credentials for the Hall of FAME. So does having a kid brother who came up with and sold the Broncos (among others) a training computer to measure player speed, reaction time and fatigue back in the mid-eighties when computers were still black box technology to most people. Anything and everything that keeps potential inductees in the public eye (positively) helps, especially since...:


Storylines have to be very difficult to attach to a potential hof, especially a coach.
That's pretty much the process though, inevitably with 48 sports journalists deciding who's in and who's not.


Yes vermeil was a very inspiring lovable and emotional coach, however his case is simply being at the right place at the right time. You could throw coach Allen of the raiders at the helm of that extraordinary spread offense team and they still would of waved the trophy.
Okay, and you could throw Jim Mora at the helm of the Packers Sweeps of the '60s or Dennis Green at the helm of Dallas Flex D Razzle Dazzle offenses of the '70s and they probably still manage a SB despite the coaching ineptitude—except those teams never would've HAD the designs that made them champions without the coaches who designed them. Throw Martz at the head of the Rams spread offense and there's no trophy; throw Vermeil at a moribund Chiefs team and they lead the NFL in scoring several straight years. Coincidence or coaching?


Personally, its a love hate relationship with Reeves, because of the internal head bumping between bowlen and elway. For fun, if I were to choose the coach and the only 2 categories were storylines and stats, I would say Marty schotenheimer(sp). Also I wanted to add that what Hester did today is simply going to be a record that will take decades, if ever, to get broken. I played pw football and hs ball and returning punts especially kickoffs was the scariest and most unpredictable thing to do(I thought/think) on the gridiron. Other notable studs I remember at this pos. Eric metcalf, Dave megget, Brian Mitchell. These guys had full careers at these positions and were successful.
Reeves threw a TD in the Ice Bowl and was present as player or assistant for all 5 of Landrys SB appearances, then took us to the SB three times, THEN took over a 3-13 team and had it 14-2 facing us in a SB just two years later. He's just one short of enough Conference Championship Rings to fill BOTH HANDS, but can make up the difference with his two SB Rings. He should've been in Canton years ago.

FanInAZ
09-19-2014, 03:46 PM
http://unclemikesmusings.blogspot.com/2014/02/pro-football-hall-of-famers-by-team-2014.html

This list is bogus. Only 1 Cardinal player in the HoF? :shocked:

Try 18 (12 of whom spent at least half their careers with the Cards).

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/teams.aspx

Slick
09-19-2014, 05:57 PM
Joel, my meaning was that Denver has played in 6. I was wrong. They've played in 7 actually, and that's more than a lot of teams can say. That doesn't seem to be much of a factor in Denver's case for hall of famers.

BroncoWave
09-19-2014, 06:08 PM
Joel, my meaning was that Denver has played in 6. I was wrong. They've played in 7 actually, and that's more than a lot of teams can say. That doesn't seem to be much of a factor in Denver's case for hall of famers.

Well you can't count one of those 7 super bowls in our hall of fame evaluations because it just happened this year. None of the players from that game are HOF eligible.

And one could argue that for 3 of those other 6, John Elway carried a relatively average to above average team to those Super Bowls.

I'm not trying to downplay Denver's accomplishments, I just don't see this laundry list of huge HOF snubs. Yeah there are a few like Meck, Gradishar, maybe TD and Atwater, but some of the guys on this list (Schlereth, Nalen, Elam) are pretty big reaches to say they are snubs if they don't get in.

Slick
09-19-2014, 07:07 PM
Well you can't count one of those 7 super bowls in our hall of fame evaluations because it just happened this year. None of the players from that game are HOF eligible.

And one could argue that for 3 of those other 6, John Elway carried a relatively average to above average team to those Super Bowls.

I'm not trying to downplay Denver's accomplishments, I just don't see this laundry list of huge HOF snubs. Yeah there are a few like Meck, Gradishar, maybe TD and Atwater, but some of the guys on this list (Schlereth, Nalen, Elam) are pretty big reaches to say they are snubs if they don't get in.

I agree.

Joel
09-19-2014, 09:41 PM
Joel, my meaning was that Denver has played in 6. I was wrong. They've played in 7 actually, and that's more than a lot of teams can say. That doesn't seem to be much of a factor in Denver's case for hall of famers.
I was being sarcastic (sorry.) There's a short list of teams with 6 SB appearances (and only three others with 7+) but all the OTHERS on that list have more than TWICE as many SB WINS as us. Second best is worth less than THE best; whether it's worthless or just much worse depends on whom one asks, but the difference is only small to fans of whoever lost the last SB. And, again, we didn't just LOSE 5, we got DESTROYED in EVERY loss. 27-10 was the "close" one; in 3 we didn't even get within 20 pts, and still hold the record for worst SB beating: As bad as last year was, it was still 10 pts better than THAT.

That 2-5 record stacked against Pitts 6 Lombardis, Dallas and SFs 5, or GB and the Giants' 4 weighs less. How much less? 2-3 times, depending on team. Oh, well; at least we EARNED our SB wins, unlike that OTHER team with 7 SB appearances (who only managed ONE more win even with their cameramans help.)

Slick
09-19-2014, 09:49 PM
I was being sarcastic (sorry.) There's a short list of teams with 6 SB appearances (and only three others with 7+) but all the OTHERS on that list have more than TWICE as many SB WINS as us. Second best is worth less than THE best; whether it's worthless or just much worse depends on whom one asks, but the difference is only small to fans of whoever lost the last SB. And, again, we didn't just LOSE 5, we got DESTROYED in EVERY loss. 27-10 was the "close" one; in 3 we didn't even get within 20 pts, and still hold the record for worst SB beating: As bad as last year was, it was still 10 pts better than THAT.

That 2-5 record stacked against Pitts 6 Lombardis, Dallas and SFs 5, or GB and the Giants' 4 weighs less. How much less? 2-3 times, depending on team. Oh, well; at least we EARNED our SB wins, unlike that OTHER team with 7 SB appearances (who only managed ONE more win even with their cameramans help.)

I purposely left off our record in those Superbowls because being 2-5 in those seven is painful.

Joel
09-19-2014, 10:12 PM
I purposely left off our record in those Superbowls because being 2-5 in those seven is painful.
We have more SB appearances than all but 2 other teams (and only one other's tied for second,) but 14 others have more WINS, and 5 more have as many. That's over half the league, even after expansion teams; doesn't make for tons of HoFers. And the MARGINS... we not only have the worst SB loss, but 4 of the top (or bottom) 10. We don't WANT people to remember that, much less enshrine it in Canton.

Apollo
09-20-2014, 05:25 AM
League MVP, SuperBowl MVP and a 2,000 yard season for TD, and the HOF still puts Curtis Martin in instead of him. That in itself discredits the entire selection process

Really wish that someone from whoever decides who goes into the HoF would actually answer why Terrell Davis is not in there. One of the most revolutionary RB's to ever play.

Joel
09-20-2014, 08:30 AM
Really wish that someone from whoever decides who goes into the HoF would actually answer why Terrell Davis is not in there. One of the most revolutionary RB's to ever play.
According to the Halls site, it's a media rep from each teams city (so NY has two,) another from the Pro Football Writers of America, and 15 at-large media reps. It lists Legwold as Denvers rep: Ask him.