Interesting post about Elway

[7DnBrnc53]

This is from an entry on the Mile High Report about Dan Reeves:

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/9/14/6146615/dan-reeves-denver-broncos-ring-of-honor-2014



I appreciate what you have done here (a classy post for a classy guy) and I appreciate that you didn’t try and make more out of it than you could back up. A great starting point for the convo.

Dan Reeves is at the heart of a mythology that has created a "long shadow" effect for Denver fans which has actually affected the product on the field for years, culminating in the Tebow madness, and the Peyton Pacification.

In this myth, Elway hated Reeves, was handcuffed all game long, and finally released to win games at the end, showing his true ability and talent.

Click link above for more

[Northman]

I always appreciated Reeves but what cracks me up about that guy's post is he was basically trying to take any accountability away from Reeves and throw it on Elway and Shanahan. While they both had their own faults for various things Reeves was a very stubborn man and would often try to beat the square peg into the round whole with players that ultimately just werent that talented. John made a lot of players better than they actually were. And yes, the greatest mistake (and biggest one) that Reeves ever made was even CONSIDERING to trade John. If people got pissed at the Cutler/McDaniels fiasco had Dan succeeded in trading John i really dont think Reeves would of made it out of Denver alive. That was beyond moronic to even consider.

[BroncoJoe]

As the years have passed, I have grown an appreciation for Reeves. I like the guy, and fully endorse (not that it matters) his induction into the Ring of Fame.

His last few years here were painful though, and his stubbornness in not fully utilizing Elway until the final minutes of a game drove me insane. I'm a homer, but I really believe that Elway would have a shit-ton of records if not for Reeves.

[7DnBrnc53]

Reeves was a good coach, but I agree that his offensive scheme was antiquated. Steve Watson called it the Edsel System.

Another thing that this guy forgets is that Elway had good stats at Stanford playing under Jim Fassel, and when Reeves left and Fassel came on board in 93, Elway put those same numbers up again.

Also, when he talks about how John was inefficient, it almost seems like he is making him out to be the Tim Tebow of his era.

[BroncoJoe]

Reeves was a good coach, but I agree that his offensive scheme was antiquated. Steve Watson called it the Edsel System.

Another thing that this guy forgets is that Elway had good stats at Stanford playing under Jim Fassel, and when Reeves left and Fassel came on board in 93, Elway put those same numbers up again.

Also, when he talks about how John was inefficient, it almost seems like he is making him out to be the Tim Tebow of his era.

I didn't look it up, but was that when Wade was here? I think Elway put up his best statistical seasons under Phillips.

[7DnBrnc53]

I didn't look it up, but was that when Wade was here? I think Elway put up his best statistical seasons under Phillips.

Yes, it was. People always assume that Elway's stats didn't improve until Shanahan and TD got there, though, which is a fallacy.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Obviously, whoever wrote that article did not watch the Broncos when Reeves was the coach. It was common knowledge that for much of the game, it would be run on 1st down, run on 2nd down, and pass on 3rd down. And then into the 4th qtr, it was like - Elway, do whatever you can to win the game.

[G_Money]

Number of top 5 offenses Elway was a part of in the Reeves era, by points: 1 (1987) out of 10 seasons.
By yards: 1 (1987)

Number of top 5 offenses Elway was a part of in the Post-Reeves era, by points: 4 (out of 6 seasons)
By yards: 5 (and the other year they finished 6th)

If Reeves wasn't holding Elway back, apparently John drank his magical maturity potion in 1993 and never looked back.

There were many good things that Reeves did, and some great ones. Designing a run-first offense around terrible running backs (Sammy Winder's 3.6 YPC career, for instance) and getting inadequate receivers who couldn't catch John's passes were not shining moments for Reeves. Jackson, Johnson and Nattiel weren't exactly world destroyers. It's trying to win a Super Bowl with Antwan Randel-El and Mike Pritchard as your best guys, basically. They're capable-ish... but not against the pre-Free-Agency juggernauts being built by the NFC.

When your running game is the PRIMARY weapon (ie, first and second down, or all three downs when it's first and goal from any distance), then you'd better be able to execute. John racked up some decent yardage totals because he was always throwing on 3rd and 9, or to catch up at the ends of games. Elway had his own issues with turning the ball over or trying to force the issue, but nobody else on offense was gonna bail him out. He had a pretty good defense several of those years, and could take those risks, but there's no such thing as a game manager when you have an offense that doesn't work without big plays and wideouts who can't run themselves open.

*shrugs* I don't blame Reeves for everything - we simply were NOT talented enough to win those Superbowls. The only reasons we GOT to those Super Bowls were Elway's heroics on offense and our defense being well prepared to face AFC opponents. There's a reason NOBODY from the 3 Eighties Super Bowls is a HOF candidate, save Elway. Jim Kelly has a ton of company from his 90s Bills getting in there, even though they didn't win any. Elway didn't have the kind of help he needed.

Either from Reeves or the roster. Once he got the help in coaching and personnel, he won. Easy peasy. You can say there's no way Reeves could have done any better with that dearth of talent either... but he was the one who could have had different input, changed personnel, adapted. Instead, he wanted to swap out Elway.

Thank God for Bowlen. Reeves went on to pretty good things elsewhere. He's a good coach. But if one of them was responsible for the successes the Broncos did have in the 80s, especially on the offensive side, it was not Reeves. Let's clear that up right now.

~G

[Shazam!]

The only thing I can agree with was Shanahan's ego making the relationship with Elway and Reeves worse.

I dint think the author is even a Broncos fan.

[MOtorboat]

Great read.