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Joel
08-27-2014, 07:06 PM
REALLY like it; my only real reservation is I'd like more than one backup OT. If Schofield's not ready an injury to Clady OR Clark probably means TWO changes (Franklin subs for the hurt player, Garland/Montomery subs for him.) But that ship probably sailed when we cut Justice (still don't like that, but not my call.) Apart from that, it's hard to find any cuts OR keeps I dislike; I could never decide whether I preferred Carter or Ihenacho as our last DB (though I did lean toward Carter) so even that's no big deal, and if we DO PS Aninuke we could even get that extra OT. http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/8/26/6069533/denver-broncos-roster-projecting-the-final-53

Cugel
08-29-2014, 12:18 PM
I hate the idea of tying up a roster spot for Dysert, but I think they will. It makes no sense to me unless they anticipate a QB competition between Dysert and Osweiler when Manning retires, which won't be for a couple of seasons anyway. Even then you can find backup QBs the caliber of Dysert anytime you need one. So, why tie up a roster spot for him now just to hold onto him?

Osweiler has shown enough that if Manning goes down for a couple of games the Broncos would have a chance to win some games with him. They could pick up a QB off the waiver wires to serve as an emergency backup for Osweiler if needed. It's a luxury they can't afford to keep two roster spots tied up for clip-board holders who won't play more than a couple of downs all season.

In truth, if Manning were to get hurt and out for the season, the season is shot anyway. The Broncos would have zero chance of a SB run with Osweiler and we all know it, let alone with Dysert. I think it would be a stretch for them to even win a game with Dysert at QB -- at least against one of the better teams.

BroncoNut
08-29-2014, 12:29 PM
I hate the idea of tying up a roster spot for Dysert, but I think they will. It makes no sense to me unless they anticipate a QB competition between Dysert and Osweiler when Manning retires, which won't be for a couple of seasons anyway. Even then you can find backup QBs the caliber of Dysert anytime you need one. So, why tie up a roster spot for him now just to hold onto him?

Osweiler has shown enough that if Manning goes down for a couple of games the Broncos would have a chance to win some games with him. They could pick up a QB off the waiver wires to serve as an emergency backup for Osweiler if needed. It's a luxury they can't afford to keep two roster spots tied up for clip-board holders who won't play more than a couple of downs all season.

In truth, if Manning were to get hurt and out for the season, the season is shot anyway. The Broncos would have zero chance of a SB run with Osweiler and we all know it, let alone with Dysert. I think it would be a stretch for them to even win a game with Dysert at QB -- at least against one of the better teams.

I think this is a pretty honest and fair post overall, but to say that there's never a chance if such and such happens makes life kinda not worth living at all. so thanks for that Cugel :hi:

Traveler
08-29-2014, 12:29 PM
Still guessing Bibbs for CJ. Young for Carter.

Cugel
08-29-2014, 12:39 PM
I think this is a pretty honest and fair post overall, but to say that there's never a chance if such and such happens makes life kinda not worth living at all. so thanks for that Cugel :hi:

By "chance" I mean a reasonable chance, i.e. "no reasonable chance." Now, if you want to posit something like a fluke win like the "immaculate deflection" play that led to the Brandon Stokely TD win, then fine. With something like that you could hope for a miracle.

But, I'm being realistic. The Broncos are not going to win many, if any games with Zak Dysert as their QB and we all know it. And a QB who's never started a regular sesaon NFL game is almost certainly not going to win the SB in his first (partial) season either, so no SB with Osweiler.

Instead of hoping for a miracle if Manning gets hurt, I'm crossing my fingers that Manning stays healthy all year, just like he has most of his career.

BroncoNut
08-29-2014, 12:42 PM
By "chance" I mean a reasonable chance, i.e. "no reasonable chance." Now, if you want to posit something like a fluke win like the "immaculate deflection" play that led to the Brandon Stokely TD win, then fine. With something like that you could hope for a miracle.

But, I'm being realistic. The Broncos are not going to win many, if any games with Zak Dysert as their QB and we all know it. And a QB who's never started an NFL game is almost certainly not going to win the SB in his first (partial) season either, so no SB with Osweiler.

Instead of hoping for a miracle if Manning gets hurt, I'm crossing my fingers that Manning stays healthy all year, just like he has most of his career.

I know, was being sarcastic, agree pretty much with all of it

Simple Jaded
08-29-2014, 12:45 PM
Bennie Fowler > Isaiah Burse.

Dzone
08-29-2014, 12:51 PM
CJ aint as good as Juwan

TXBRONC
08-29-2014, 01:03 PM
It makes a lot of sense to me to keep three quarterbacks. First, helps to keep Osweiler sharp. Second, developing quarterbacks is never an easy process. Third, having a 3rd quarterback who already knows the system is far better than bringing in some scrub off the street who doesn't know the system. I disagree the season is shot if Osweiler had to play more than just couple of games. At the end of day I hope remains a mystery.

I'm not sure this guy is right that Aninuke makes the roster. We have two defensive end that can also play defensive tackle and will many sub packages. Keeping an extra defensive tackle especially with the way this schedule looks so I wouldn't be surprised in Unrein gets to stay.

For the most part I think the prediction is dead on.

TXBRONC
08-29-2014, 01:06 PM
Bennie Fowler > Isaiah Burse.

I think you may be right but Burse returns punts and kicks. Fowler played well on the coverage teams but we need someone who can return punts and kicks.

Dzone
08-29-2014, 01:07 PM
I like this projection-Keeping Vickerson and Unrein would be very cool.
http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/8/29/6082043/denver-broncos-depth-chart-projection-53-man-roster-2014/in/5826058

TXBRONC
08-29-2014, 01:12 PM
I like this projection-Keeping Vickerson and Unrein would be very cool.
http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/8/29/6082043/denver-broncos-depth-chart-projection-53-man-roster-2014/in/5826058

I like his prediction even better. I do however think Webster will play ahead of Roby for the time being.

tripp
08-29-2014, 01:49 PM
At this point, I'd be ok with cutting ties with CJ, and bringing in Juwan. I'm also at the point where I'd cut my losses with Ronnie Hillman and replace him with Bibbs. I'm a "what have you done for me lately" kinda guy. Which is why I like Burse a lot too. But definitely Juwan Thompson on the team, I think we need that kind of RB.

Cugel
08-29-2014, 01:59 PM
It makes a lot of sense to me to keep three quarterbacks. First, helps to keep Osweiler sharp. Second, developing quarterbacks is never an easy process. Third, having a 3rd quarterback who already knows the system is far better than bringing in some scrub off the street who doesn't know the system. I disagree the season is shot if Osweiler had to play more than just couple of games. At the end of day I hope remains a mystery.

I'm not sure this guy is right that Aninuke makes the roster. We have two defensive end that can also play defensive tackle and will many sub packages. Keeping an extra defensive tackle especially with the way this schedule looks so I wouldn't be surprised in Unrein gets to stay.

For the most part I think the prediction is dead on.

Well, don't worry. I think you're dead wrong, but Elway is going to keep Dysert on the roster, so it's academic. If Manning goes down and Osweiler has to play and either sucks so bad he's benched or also gets injured, and then Dysert comes in and manages to win a game, then it's worth it. Otherwise it's a wasted roster spot.

Now, I'd say that's a real long-shot, wouldn't you? :coffee:

Cugel
08-29-2014, 02:01 PM
At this point, I'd be ok with cutting ties with CJ, and bringing in Juwan. I'm also at the point where I'd cut my losses with Ronnie Hillman and replace him with Bibbs. I'm a "what have you done for me lately" kinda guy. Which is why I like Burse a lot too. But definitely Juwan Thompson on the team, I think we need that kind of RB.

I would love seeing them get rid of Hillman who doesn't seem to provide much of anything. Chances of it hapening: Zero.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-29-2014, 02:27 PM
Keep Dysert over Unrein? That's just silly....

Unrein would probably contribute more in the first 4 games then a 3rd string QB would contribute all year.

tripp
08-29-2014, 02:31 PM
I would love seeing them get rid of Hillman who doesn't seem to provide much of anything. Chances of it hapening: Zero.

I think they are giving him the benefit of the doubt for being so young, still only being 22 years old. Has he ever really shown any flashes of brilliance?

tripp
08-29-2014, 02:33 PM
Keep Dysert over Unrein? That's just silly....

Unrein would probably contribute more in the first 4 games then a 3rd string QB would contribute all year.

Could be just me, but I think they want to keep Dysert because they feel he won't pass through waivers to put him on the practise squad. But I agree, having a 3rd string QB is meaningless compared to a guy who will actually contribute this season.

Joel
08-29-2014, 03:24 PM
I like this projection-Keeping Vickerson and Unrein would be very cool.
http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/8/29/6082043/denver-broncos-depth-chart-projection-53-man-roster-2014/in/5826058
That's also not bad, and I do like what he did with the lines, especially since TXBRONCs point about our DEs who can play DT are a good argument for keeping Unrein (a DT who can play DE.) I think we could probably get a way with PSing Anunike, but even if now, Wolfe, Ware, Jackson and Smith plus Unrein as swing man would leave us in good shape.

The only disagreement that leapt out at me in that second projection is keeping Thompson and Bibbs on the 53 and PSing Anderson: I think Anderson was on the 53 >8 games last year (which would make him ineligible for PS,) but even if not, Anderson's looked better than Bibbs, who has plenty of PS eligibility and probably wouldn't be in much danger there; there's always a slew of 3rd string RBs, and the NFL uses them less than ever, so the chances someone signs Bibbs off waivers look small.

Ravage!!!
08-29-2014, 03:35 PM
Cugel is WAYYY too hard on Hillman. Hillman will have a very useful and distinctive job for this offense. HE's not NEARLY as bad as most him out to be. He's put on weight, and still has the most speed of our backfield. Gladd to see that Denver hasn't given up on a 22 yr old kid yet with Hillman's skillset.

But I agree completely with Cugel about the QB. I don't think it makes much sense to keep 3 QBs on the roster. How many teams have gone down to their 3rd QB? Not many. Considering how deep we were having to dig last year for depth because of injuries.... lets keep a player that might actually get into the rotation. Mayor pointed out one, Urein. Makes much more sense to me.

Simple Jaded
08-29-2014, 04:14 PM
Isn't there a Dysert or two, or ten, in every draft? If he doesn't make it to PS I think they'll live, the season is boned if Manning goes down anyway.

Joel
08-29-2014, 06:24 PM
Isn't there a Dysert or two, or ten, in every draft? If he doesn't make it to PS I think they'll live, the season is boned if Manning goes down anyway.
Yup, and the point that there'll probably be plenty of FAs available in the event is also valid. In the absolute worst case scenario Manning goes down for any length of time, signing a FA placeholder to start while Oz remains backup makes far more sense than starting Oz half the season with Dysert as HIS backup. That would be truly throwing in the towel, IMHO; I'd be more comfortable starting a bust ex-starter someone released than starting Oz. After all, Orton's still available.... ;)

TXBRONC
08-29-2014, 06:36 PM
Well, don't worry. I think you're dead wrong, but Elway is going to keep Dysert on the roster, so it's academic. If Manning goes down and Osweiler has to play and either sucks so bad he's benched or also gets injured, and then Dysert comes in and manages to win a game, then it's worth it. Otherwise it's a wasted roster spot.

Now, I'd say that's a real long-shot, wouldn't you? :coffee:

You're right I'm not worried because I'm not wrong. I also trust that Fox and Elway are infinitely more competent and knowledgeable that any of us. It's what's been reported for the last two years. I think I will also have a cup of coffee. :coffee:

Joel
08-29-2014, 07:19 PM
The list of starting QBs drafted after the 2nd is short (I think there were all of 4 last year, including Schaub) and the list of starters drafted after the 3rd is "Brady and Romo." Odds are, our 2nd year 7th rounder's well short of Romo, let alone Brady. I think Dysert was mainly a sop to those who thought putting all our post-Manning eggs in Ozs lone basket too much of an all-or-nothing gamble. Just because the FO is smart enough to quell dissension in the ranks though doesn't mean they think Dysert has a future anywhere but the bench.

EVERYONE without a seasons worth of starts is a long shot for franchise QB—but the odds difference between Oz and Dysert's the difference between a church raffle and Powerball.

TXBRONC
08-29-2014, 08:42 PM
Keep Dysert over Unrein? That's just silly....

Unrein would probably contribute more in the first 4 games then a 3rd string QB would contribute all year.

It's possible to keep both without harming the depth anywhere else.

Simple Jaded
08-29-2014, 09:43 PM
Yup, and the point that there'll probably be plenty of FAs available in the event is also valid. In the absolute worst case scenario Manning goes down for any length of time, signing a FA placeholder to start while Oz remains backup makes far more sense than starting Oz half the season with Dysert as HIS backup. That would be truly throwing in the towel, IMHO; I'd be more comfortable starting a bust ex-starter someone released than starting Oz. After all, Orton's still available.... ;)

The Broncos signing a FA and starting him over Osweiler makes more sense to you? Did I...really? You make my ****** head hurt.

Joel
08-29-2014, 10:45 PM
The Broncos signing a FA and starting him over Osweiler makes more sense to you? Did I...really? You make my ****** head hurt.
If Manning's hurt a while and we want to keep competing, yes; I don't think Oz is even close to ready to lead us to a SB. I'd take a Kitna, Young or even Orton over Oz in that event, yes. Kevin Kolb's still sitting by his phone; he's no ones long term solution, but a better short term solution than Oz, IMHO. The only way starting Oz would make sense is if we're pretty sure he will be Mannings successor and want him to get the game experience now that he'll need then. It would be throwing in the towel on 2014 though, again, IMHO.

Simple Jaded
08-29-2014, 11:10 PM
If Manning's hurt a while and we want to keep competing, yes; I don't think Oz is even close to ready to lead us to a SB. I'd take a Kitna, Young or even Orton over Oz in that event, yes. Kevin Kolb's still sitting by his phone; he's no ones long term solution, but a better short term solution than Oz, IMHO. The only way starting Oz would make sense is if we're pretty sure he will be Mannings successor and want him to get the game experience now that he'll need then. It would be throwing in the towel on 2014 though, again, IMHO.
Ok, YOU'D rather have said QB's, now ask yourself if the Denver Broncos think you're a complete idiot?

Simple Jaded
08-29-2014, 11:17 PM
I'm serious, I can't have a discussion with you without having flashbacks to your Tebow-stupor. The Broncos are stupid for not building around a QB that can't play dead but would be throwing in the towel if they don't run out and sign a FA who has never played a down in this offense?

Bronco4ever
08-29-2014, 11:23 PM
If Manning's hurt a while and we want to keep competing, yes; I don't think Oz is even close to ready to lead us to a SB. I'd take a Kitna, Young or even Orton over Oz in that event, yes. Kevin Kolb's still sitting by his phone; he's no ones long term solution, but a better short term solution than Oz, IMHO. The only way starting Oz would make sense is if we're pretty sure he will be Mannings successor and want him to get the game experience now that he'll need then. It would be throwing in the towel on 2014 though, again, IMHO.

I don't think you could be more wrong about this Joel. You say Oz can't lead us to the Super Bowl but washed up has beens like Orton and Kitna will? Not a chance. If we don't give our QBOTF a shot should it come to that, then what was the point in developing him in the first place? Oz knows the offense and would have the support of his teammates. There's absolutely no way any FA QB will come in and save the season any more than Oz would.

Simple Jaded
08-29-2014, 11:31 PM
The Broncos have a street FA backup up Travathon and did exactly nothing in FA when Travathon went down. You should hope the Broncos give Osweiler a chance, the sooner he's out there the sooner you can't start bitching about him, Manning and Manning's cap number.

Dzone
08-29-2014, 11:36 PM
did I hear someone say they would take orton over osweiller? Omg no way . you had to be jokingLOL

Simple Jaded
08-29-2014, 11:39 PM
Btw, the Bills just signed Kyle Borton.

Dzone
08-29-2014, 11:44 PM
wow, you werent kidding..I googled it orton signs with bills. this story should have its own thread lol
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20140829-report-former-cowboys-qb-kyle-orton-agrees-to-contract-with-buffalo-bills.ece

Joel
08-30-2014, 01:46 AM
I don't think you could be more wrong about this Joel. You say Oz can't lead us to the Super Bowl but washed up has beens like Orton and Kitna will? Not a chance. If we don't give our QBOTF a shot should it come to that, then what was the point in developing him in the first place? Oz knows the offense and would have the support of his teammates. There's absolutely no way any FA QB will come in and save the season any more than Oz would.
From the little we've seen him in games, Oz is a developing QB in the sense that India's a developing country: Maybe he'll be ready someday, but not yet. So I'd rather have a definite starter past his prime but with starter experience than a possible starter whose time is not yet here and lacking that experience. If losing Manning for more than a week or two means conceding the whole season, sure, stick Os out there with good talent around him and let him get his real game experience before next year.

If we're to keep fighting though, I prefer a guy with some experience doing so, not the one who's looked hit or miss against preseason backups in his third season.

MOtorboat
08-30-2014, 12:53 PM
From the little we've seen him in games, Oz is a developing QB in the sense that India's a developing country: Maybe he'll be ready someday, but not yet. So I'd rather have a definite starter past his prime but with starter experience than a possible starter whose time is not yet here and lacking that experience. If losing Manning for more than a week or two means conceding the whole season, sure, stick Os out there with good talent around him and let him get his real game experience before next year.

If we're to keep fighting though, I prefer a guy with some experience doing so, not the one who's looked hit or miss against preseason backups in his third season.

Elway disagrees. Get over it.

Simple Jaded
08-30-2014, 11:21 PM
Oh well, there's always Jon Kitna, amirite Joel?

Joel
08-31-2014, 06:20 AM
Elway disagrees. Get over it.
We don't know Elways contingency for a Manning injury, and hopefully never will. He cut Dysert (presumably with PS intent) but that doesn't preclude a signing if Manning's hurt.

MOtorboat
08-31-2014, 11:30 AM
We don't know Elways contingency for a Manning injury, and hopefully never will. He cut Dysert (presumably with PS intent) but that doesn't preclude a signing if Manning's hurt.

Osweiler will start if Manning gets hurt or retires.

TXBRONC
08-31-2014, 11:32 AM
We don't know Elways contingency for a Manning injury, and hopefully never will. He cut Dysert (presumably with PS intent) but that doesn't preclude a signing if Manning's hurt.

Yes we do.

Simple Jaded
09-01-2014, 03:21 PM
We don't know Elways contingency for a Manning injury, and hopefully never will. He cut Dysert (presumably with PS intent) but that doesn't preclude a signing if Manning's hurt.

Dude, at this point it's just trolling.

Elway has 2 QB's, they've kept as many as 3, do you honestly think he wouldn't get his contingency plan on board so he could at least get on First-name basis with the players/coaches he'd be expected lead to the SB?

I think Elway would that, but in your mind his hands are probably tied because of Manning's $99 mil cap number and the fact that Manning wouldn't want to look over his shoulder at the great (overweight) school teacher, Jon Kitna.

Simple Jaded
09-01-2014, 03:34 PM
Btw, this whole idea of signing a veteran pretty much negates any sacrifice the Broncos made by cutting players like Vickerson, meaning, the Broncos made tough cap decisions so they could roll over as much space to sign Thomases, Franklin (threw that name in just to troll you Joel), Chris Harris, Pot Roast, Wolfe, Jackson and Miller just to name a few.

Just to waste cap space on a 45 year old school teacher?

So in reality, Joel is arguing the Broncos will wipe their ass with the ability to avoid his biggest concern when they signed Manning, cap stability and keeping/signing star players, just so they could wait til the last possible second and sign. . . . . .Jon ****** Kitna.

Joel
09-01-2014, 04:25 PM
How'd signing Kitna to cover an INJURY this year affect re-signing anyone NEXT year? Dallas brought him in for ONE GAME last season; they didn't KEEP him, or we wouldn't be discussing him.

I'd forgotten just how much fun this isn't. Glad to see you've admitted you have a trolling problem though; that's the first step. :)

Timmy!
09-01-2014, 04:33 PM
Joel is on the gooooooooooooood drugs. Wow.

Simple Jaded
09-01-2014, 04:34 PM
You're right Joel, I'm trolling. This coming from somebody who lives for being known for being an expert on the intricacies of the NFL but pretends not to know how signing a player in October could effect a team in March.

Turn the focus on me, Joel, maybe that'll throw people off the fact that you're wrong.

Simple Jaded
09-01-2014, 06:24 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000386682/article/colts-saints-chargers-boast-nfls-top-quarterback-situations

Wtf does Bucky Brooks know about QB's? Jon Kitna FTW!


"Drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the second round of the 1994 NFL Draft, Bucky Brooks played for five different teams (Buffalo, Jacksonville, Green Bay, Kansas City and Oakland) in five NFL seasons. After his playing career was over in 1999, Brooks joined the Seattle Seahawks' pro personnel department as a regional college scout. He served in the same capacity for the Carolina Panthers from 2003 to 2007, before joining CNNSI.com as a football analyst. He joined NFL Media in 2009."

Ok, maybe I am trolling.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-02-2014, 05:47 PM
keep dysert over unrein? That's just silly....

Unrein would probably contribute more in the first 4 games then a 3rd string qb would contribute all year.

i am the smartest man alive!!!!!

Ravage!!!
09-02-2014, 06:21 PM
I don't think you could be more wrong about this Joel. You say Oz can't lead us to the Super Bowl but washed up has beens like Orton and Kitna will? Not a chance. If we don't give our QBOTF a shot should it come to that, then what was the point in developing him in the first place? Oz knows the offense and would have the support of his teammates. There's absolutely no way any FA QB will come in and save the season any more than Oz would.

You guys have washed over the fact that Joel used the name "Young" in his QBs he'd "rather have" post. VINCE YOUNG. This, alone, should tell you how good Joel is about understanding the QB position. Not only did he think we should stick with Tebow, over the "washed up" Manning, but thinks we would be better off with a guy like VINCE YOUNG over our 3rd Year QB. It's just ridiculous, absurd, and completely ludicrous.

When it comes to the QB play, I think its safe to say that it's better to ignore certain posters as they have truly expressed an absence in ability to recognize good from TRULY bad. There are rookies starting in the NFL, and guys like Tannehill, McCown, EJ Manual, and that guy with the NYjets starting. Tebow, Young, and Kitna are not being looked at to replace any of them.

I would feel very comfortable with Os coming in for Manning at this point. Absolutely.

Simple Jaded
09-02-2014, 11:14 PM
Even if Osweiler comes in for Manning and falls flat on his face the notion of signing Jon Kitna to start at the last minute is preposterous. I like Osweiler, he's been growing on me, but this has nothing to do with how me or Joel, or any other fan, feel about the dude, it has everything to do with not making any logical sense whatsoever.

Even if it happens exactly like Joel insists it should it would be monumentally stupid, they were prepared to go with Osweiler as a rookie and he's done nothing to suggest otherwise since.

Traveler
09-03-2014, 09:02 AM
You guys have washed over the fact that Joel used the name "Young" in his QBs he'd "rather have" post. VINCE YOUNG. This, alone, should tell you how good Joel is about understanding the QB position. Not only did he think we should stick with Tebow, over the "washed up" Manning, but thinks we would be better off with a guy like VINCE YOUNG over our 3rd Year QB. It's just ridiculous, absurd, and completely ludicrous.

When it comes to the QB play, I think its safe to say that it's better to ignore certain posters as they have truly expressed an absence in ability to recognize good from TRULY bad. There are rookies starting in the NFL, and guys like Tannehill, McCown, EJ Manual, and that guy with the NYjets starting. Tebow, Young, and Kitna are not being looked at to replace any of them.

I would feel very comfortable with Os coming in for Manning at this point. Absolutely.

Damn Rav, tell us how you really feel!