DT Kevin Vickerson On The Bubble, Looking Forward To 5th Season With Broncos

[Denver Native (Carol)]

DENVER (CBS4)- Defensive Tackle Kevin Vickerson is on the bubble with the Denver Broncos but hopes to spend his fifth season with the team.

After eight years in the NFL, the veteran players knows the job comes with no guarantees.

“Every year it’s the same feeling. I got to go out and make the team so really nothing is set in stone. Never,” said Vickerson.

rest - http://denver.cbslocal.com/2014/08/27/dt-kevin-vickerson-on-the-bubble-looking-forward-to-5th-season-with-broncos/

[sneakers]

I thought he was pretty good??

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I thought he was pretty good??

He was pretty good last year as a space eater. There was a bit of a drop off in our run D after he went out.

[Joel]

I thought he was pretty good??
Sadly, the key word is the fourth, not the sixth:
Vickerson is coming off a hip injury. With a salary of more than $2 million a season, he appears to many to be a man squarely beyond the bubble.He also faces some stiff competition from fellow DT’s Marvin Austin, who has had a very good camp, and another veteran Mitch Unrein.
They call him Big Vick for a reason; he weighs fully twice as much as some players, so an injury to one of the hips supporting all that bulk is huge, especially a dislocation, since that loosens ligaments to make future dislocations more likely. Any other year we'd be so desperate for decent DTs it wouldn't matter, but Del Rio built a solid DT rotation the moment he arrived; Vickerson was a big part of that before the injury, but Williams barely missed a beat replacing him, and Austin's had a great camp, so he may be fighting for the #4 spot.

Except the article speculates we'll only keep THREE, which frankly scared the crap out of me. I'm not sure I buy that; we kept 4 last year, and sined Fua when Vickerson went to IR, precisely the reason I want 4: Fatigue happens fast with huge DTs, so we need a rotation, and if we only keep 3 that becomes impossible after even just ONE injury. Maybe they're looking at Wolfe/Jackson as backups since they play inside a lot in nickel, but I'm hoping we keep 4 DTs, and that Vickerson's healthy enough to make the cut.

The weird thing is I never liked Unrein as an unremarkable starter, but like him a lot as a versatile backup with a nose for the ball. I just can't see keeping 5.

[LTC Pain]

I'm not seeing how Vick could be behind Unrein and Fua on the depth chart? Injury related possibly?

[Joel]

I'm not seeing how Vick could be behind Unrein and Fua on the depth chart? Injury related possibly?
That's my guess; just saw MHR has a final 53 projection: Vickerson's the #2 NT (or 4th DT, depending how one views it,) which is exactly where I'd put him. I really like their whole projection.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

That's my guess; just saw MHR has a final 53 projection: Vickerson's the #2 NT (or 4th DT, depending how one views it,) which is exactly where I'd put him. I really like their whole projection.

Yeah, it's hard for me to see the 2 other guys on the bubble beating Vickerson out, unless there's been a serious decline in his play. It's not like he's making a fortune this year. I think his salary is $2million.

[Joel]

Yeah, I think the article cites that number as a reason Vickerson's on the bubble—but Rotoworld has Unrein at just over $1.4, and, while more versatile than Vickerson, Unrein will NEVER be the same caliber run stuffer in the middle, so I'd think he's more on the bubble, especially if Vickerson's near 100%. Maybe if we weren't loaded with great UTs, and great DEs who can play UT also, Unrein's ability to do both combined with his nose for the ball would make the difference, but as it stands I'd be more likely to let him go market that valuable flexiblity to someone in need.

[VonDoom]

My only concern with Vick this preseason has been injury, but I thought he looked good in the game on Saturday. There were multiple times that I thought he was off sides, considering how fast he was off the snap. Just last year, he was a major part of why our run defense was so stout. I'm happy Sly has stepped up to be the starter, but unless they're really concerned about future injury, I don't really want Vick cut.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

My only concern with Vick this preseason has been injury, but I thought he looked good in the game on Saturday. There were multiple times that I thought he was off sides, considering how fast he was off the snap. Just last year, he was a major part of why our run defense was so stout. I'm happy Sly has stepped up to be the starter, but unless they're really concerned about future injury, I don't really want Vick cut.

That's exactly how I feel. It's not like he's making 5-6 mil per year.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

2013

Unrein- 16 games 20 tackles 0 sacks
Vickerson- 11 games 22 tackles 1 sack

Vickerson also took on a lot of double teams in the middle.

[VonDoom]

2013

Unrein- 16 games 20 tackles 0 sacks
Vickerson- 11 games 22 tackles 1 sack

Vickerson also took on a lot of double teams in the middle.

I've seen the argument for keeping Unrein over Vickerson boil down to, "He's younger." And while I get that, I don't see Unrein having the upside that Vick has.

Funny how things change so quickly in the NFL, though. Could you imagine having this argument last year at this time? Vick was slotted in as a starter, Sly was an unknown rookie and Knighton was looked at as a reclamation project that had the potential to fail.

[Joel]

I've seen the argument for keeping Unrein over Vickerson boil down to, "He's younger." And while I get that, I don't see Unrein having the upside that Vick has.

Funny how things change so quickly in the NFL, though. Could you imagine having this argument last year at this time? Vick was slotted in as a starter, Sly was an unknown rookie and Knighton was looked at as a reclamation project that had the potential to fail.
It's not the years, it's the mileage; Vickerson's hip will always be a little looser now, and that's a big deal on a guy his size. In terms of backups, Unreins ability to play NT, UT and DE gives him an edge because Vickerson wouldn't be much more than a slow run stuffer at DE. As a NT though, he's way better than Unrein IF healthy. A lot hangs on that "if"....

[broncosinindy]

It's not the years, it's the mileage; Vickerson's hip will always be a little loser now, and that's a big deal on a guy his size. In terms of backups, Unreins ability to play NT, UT and DE gives him an edge because Vickerson wouldn't be much more than a slow run stuffer at DE. As a NT though, he's way better than Unrein IF healthy. A lot hangs on that "if"....loser or looser ...

[Joel]

loser or looser ...
The latter; sorry. :redface:

[OrangeHoof]

Vickerson looked pretty solid to me last night. Unrein had a late sack. I'm thinking/hoping we keep all four.

[Dzone]

Is it 5? Vick, sly, pot roast, Unrein, Austin...so one of these guys has to go? That sucks. But damn good to be so deep at dt

[BroncoWave]

Maybe we can trade one for a pick. The Packers need a dt since they lost raji.

[TXBRONC]

Vickerson looked pretty solid to me last night. Unrein had a late sack. I'm thinking/hoping we keep all four.

I won't be surprised if Denver keeps five given what the schedule looks like.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Well, it's not like we need to keep 3 quarterbacks on the active roster over Austin, Vickerson, or Unrein.

[TXBRONC]

Well, it's not like we need to keep 3 quarterbacks on the active roster over Austin, Vickerson, or Unrein.

I don't see Denver keeping four tight ends either. Cameron Morrah had a solid preseason but I don't think it was enough to keep him.

[Cugel]

Well, it's not like we need to keep 3 quarterbacks on the active roster over Austin, Vickerson, or Unrein.

Austin's a lock, but even if they cut Dysert (which I would like to see, but won't happen) then there's probably room for only 4 DT: and I think that will be Mitch Unrein because his salary is lower and they need the cap room. They'd need to keep 5, which I doubt, since they clearly are keeping 6 WRs so that Isiah Burse can be the KR, and 4 RBs.

I think Vickerson is clearly better than Unrein and they could easily wind up regretting that decision if one of their DTs gets hurt this year and they're stuck with Unrein playing significant minutes. He's a career backup at best. Good enough to make some NFL rosters, but not good enough to start.

Vickerson on the other hand could easily step into the rotation if any of the top 4 go down. He could easily start if Williams struggles early in his career, and the team wouldn't suffer (i.e. Marvin Austin would remain the backup in the rotation).

[Cugel]

I don't see Denver keeping four tight ends either. Cameron Morrah had a solid preseason but I don't think it was enough to keep him.

I'd say you're almost certainly right. Even without an extra TE they still have only 8 OL, which is rather risky considering what happened last year to Clady in game 1. 24 or 25 offensive players is likely, which almost certainly limits the # of TEs they can keep, especially if they keep 3 QBs, 4 RBs and 6 WRs. 13 + the 8 OL = 21, plus the 3 TEs = 24. Adding an additional TE probably forces them to cut someone on defense, which could impact their special teams coverage as well. 24 + 26 defensive + (K, P, LS) = 53

Frankly, I'd rather see them keep an extra OL if they're going with 25 on offense.

P.S. these cuts are starting around the league and some of them are rather brutal: Larry English, 2009 16th player taken in the draft (Chargers) was just cut by the Bucs. That probably ends his career as a complete bust.

And after Logan Mankins was traded to the Bucs for a 4th round pick when he wouldn't take a pay cut Brady is reportedly extremely pissed. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/28/brady-is-indeed-upset-about-mankins-trade/)Too bad the Broncos didn't offer a 4th rounder for Mankins! (Somehow I don't think the Pats would have been OK with that deal though). :laugh:

[Joel]

Is it 5? Vick, sly, pot roast, Unrein, Austin...so one of these guys has to go?
I'm hoping it's 5, but everyone keeps saying 4, so yeah, one of those guys would have to go.


That sucks. But damn good to be so deep at dt
That about sums it up: I'd like to keep all 5 of them, but we probably can't—yet it's a far cry from just 2 years ago (and most of the previous 10) when Unrein STARTED.

I personally credit Del Rio for most of that; while everyone else screamed for pass rushing DEs (as usual) Del Rio was quietly recruiting Knighton from his old team and telling Vickerson to gain weight so he could be a REAL NT instead of continuing more of that 2-UT BS we used to run. That's when Vickerson really got my attention: Last preseason, when he tweeted he'd gained 50 lbs. while CUTTING his body fat almost 10%; he literally got (much) leaner AND meaner.

[Joel]

Austin's a lock, but even if they cut Dysert (which I would like to see, but won't happen) then there's probably room for only 4 DT: and I think that will be Mitch Unrein because his salary is lower and they need the cap room. They'd need to keep 5, which I doubt, since they clearly are keeping 6 WRs so that Isiah Burse can be the KR, and 4 RBs.
Unreins salary's not THAT much lower; the difference isn't even enough for a rookie UDFA. The main difference is Unrein has a better injury history and can play DE, so he might be 5th on the DT depth chart, but would be about 3rd behind Wolfe and Jackson at their spot. I'd love to keep 4 DTs, 4 DEs and Unrein as a 5th "DL" (though I REALLY hate that term; many people may be capable of playing DE AND DT at an Unrein level, but it takes a Trevor Pryce to play both at an ELITE level.)


I think Vickerson is clearly better than Unrein and they could easily wind up regretting that decision if one of their DTs gets hurt this year and they're stuck with Unrein playing significant minutes. He's a career backup at best. Good enough to make some NFL rosters, but not good enough to start.

Vickerson on the other hand could easily step into the rotation if any of the top 4 go down. He could easily start if Williams struggles early in his career, and the team wouldn't suffer (i.e. Marvin Austin would remain the backup in the rotation).
It's an odd place to be; Unrein has the kind of flexibility coaches love when trying to cut to 53, which would ensure him a spot most years—but this isn't most years, and THIS years Broncos are uncharacteristically loaded at DT AND DE, plus our #1 and #2 RDE are just as flexible but more talented than Unrein. Absent that need, Vickerson's the better specialist.