Dear Fans,

[GEM]

Dear fans,

When you pay the money to attend the game, please know the etiquette at the game. When the Broncos are driving and are on 3rd down, shut the hell up. I know you see the jumbotron telling you 'Quiet please' I know this because you spend half the game watching the thing hoping you get your mug on the thing. We look like the biggest bunch of ******* idiots when we can't seem to figure it out and Talib is on the screen doin the SHHHHHH motion and in huge letters it says QUIET PLEASE.

Bunch of football illiterate wine sipping pansies.

Thank you,
GEM

[BroncoNut]

where you at the game observing this or something? I missed this game, don't even know who won.

[BeefStew25]

Who played?

[BroncoNut]

Who played?

tampa bay I think, some guy named Swearinger, a friend of Pat Angerers, they both have issues and attend the same meetings anyway

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

What day is it?

[BeefStew25]

tampa bay I think, some guy named Swearinger, a friend of Pat Angerers, they both have issues and attend the same meetings anyway

Iowa connection right?

[BroncoNut]

Iowa connection right?

Angerer for sure, not sure about Swearinger. never heard of the fellow before

[BeefStew25]

Angerer for sure, not sure about Swearinger. never heard of the fellow before

That would be funny if he didn't cuss.

[BroncoNut]

That would be funny if he didn't cuss.

it would be weird.

[BeefStew25]

it would be weird.

Like the burden of an odd last name.

[GEM]

where you at the game observing this or something? I missed this game, don't even know who won.

Yea, we went to the game.

[BroncoNut]

Yea, we went to the game.

other than Welker, how was it? excited for the season?

[slim]

BTW, Swearinger does swear. I could read his lips when he and Peyton were chatting.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Dear fans,

When you pay the money to attend the game, please know the etiquette at the game. When the Broncos are driving and are on 3rd down, shut the hell up. I know you see the jumbotron telling you 'Quiet please' I know this because you spend half the game watching the thing hoping you get your mug on the thing. We look like the biggest bunch of ******* idiots when we can't seem to figure it out and Talib is on the screen doin the SHHHHHH motion and in huge letters it says QUIET PLEASE.

Bunch of football illiterate wine sipping pansies.

Thank you,
GEM

My son said - ONCE AGAIN AT A GAME, the wave was started while the Broncos' were on offense

[GEM]

My son said - ONCE AGAIN AT A GAME, the wave was started while the Broncos' were on offense

True story. :rolleyes:

[GEM]

Then there is 2 posts. Take the lounge shit to the lounge.

[tubby]

:fanpolice:

Signed,
Pro Wave

[BroncoJoe]

So, first people bitch about the "wine and cheese" fans not cheering, and now they're getting shit for cheering.

:confused:

[slim]

Let the people have some fun. Good Lord...

[GEM]

The fans in Denver are quite the loud bunch. And maybe Broncos fans are too loud? That's what Peyton Manning is jokingly floating out there these days anyway.

Manning, speaking to AM 850 KOA in Denver on Tuesday, said that he wouldn't be all that upset if Broncos fans toned it down a little bit when the team was on offense, especially if they were going for it on fourth down.

“When we're on the field on offense -- I love our fans' excitement -- but if we can just find that controlled noise level," Manning said. "I believe we are going to go for it on some fourth downs this year and maybe not cheering when we're going for it on fourth down – wait and see and if we get it, cheer then. To me, it's a hard thing. These fans have so much enthusiasm, but for a receivers' standpoint, you'd love to have that homefield advantage where you wouldn't have to signal at home.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/23365290/peyton-manning-would-like-broncos-crowd-to-quiet-down-on-offense

It's not about being loud or having fun, it's about when to do so as to actually support your team, not hinder it.

[BroncoNut]

So, first people bitch about the "wine and cheese" fans not cheering, and now they're getting shit for cheering.

:confused:

you have it all wrong Joe. both are disruptive to the offense, home field advantage maybe?

[NightTrainLayne]

Please, everyone, let's do our best to stay on-topic, and keep the Lounge material in the Lounge.

I have deleted about two pages worth of banter appropriate for the Lounge. Let's please keep BroncosTalk on topic.

[VonDoom]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/23365290/peyton-manning-would-like-broncos-crowd-to-quiet-down-on-offense

It's not about being loud or having fun, it's about when to do so as to actually support your team, not hinder it.

Exactly. It's supposed to be a home field ADVANTAGE. If you're hurting your team, even in a minor way, you shouldn't be there. Be loud for the rest of the game, including the one million play stoppages.

[BeefStew25]

Listen, if you are making noise while Manning is operating, you are a placenta.

[Valar Morghulis]

LoL - you guys would hate the Wembley Games - there is no etiquette at all! Just cheering and booing - often quite randomly and for no real reason, this is one of the reasons a UK franchise would be a disaster

[BroncoNut]

LoL - you guys would hate the Wembley Games - there is no etiquette at all! Just cheering and booing - often quite randomly and for no real reason, this is one of the reasons a UK franchise would be a disaster

plus they'd put storm the field and hang players if they lost a game. like any game, even a Thursday nighter

[Valar Morghulis]

plus they'd put storm the field and hang players if they lost a game. like any game, even a Thursday nighter

I am pretty sure those fears are misplaced - we are a civilised bunch

[BroncoNut]

I am pretty sure those fears are misplaced - we are a civilised bunch

yet you have no religion

[Valar Morghulis]

yet you have no religion

What does that tell you?

[BroncoNut]

What does that tell you?

religion isn't necessary?

[BroncoNut]

religion isn't necessary?

addendum. for civilization anyway.

[Valar Morghulis]

religion isn't necessary?

It is not needed for morality or goodness imho

[BroncoNut]

It is not needed for morality or goodness imho

yet there is no morality or goodness without it. in fact you are talking out of both sides of you mouth? shit or get off the pot Dave

[Valar Morghulis]

yet there is no morality or goodness without it. in fact you are talking out of both sides of you mouth? shit or get off the pot Dave

Let's take this to the random religious thoughts thread

[BroncoNut]

Let's take this to the random religious thoughts thread

I forget which thread I am in. but that's fine.

[BroncoNut]

I forget which thread I am in. but that's fine.

oh, I see how it got there, sorry. ok,

[slim]

C'mon guys...this thread is about placentas, not religion.

[BroncoNut]

C'mon guys...this thread is about placentas, not religion.

it's about fans being loud at the wrong times.

[tubby]

it's about fans being loud at the wrong times.

As the self appointed #1 fan, the topic can and has been officially be changed.

[slim]

it's about fans being loud at the wrong times.

Are you sure?

[Joel]

To me, it's a hard thing. These fans have so much enthusiasm, but for a receivers' standpoint, you'd love to have that homefield advantage where you wouldn't have to signal at home.
Manning was far more gracious than those idiots deserved there (and more than he was during the game when he was forced to try to hush his own fans, and visibly annoyed by it.) This is freakin' Football 101, and the wine-and-cheeseheads who can't/won't figure it out—get annoyed THEMSELVES when someone with a clue tries to tell them—should sell their tickets to someone who cares enough about the game and the team to have at least a rudimentary understanding of both.

OTHER NFL home crowds get; there are many stadiums (e.g. Mannings old one) where the only sounds on home possessions are crickets and fans mercilessly (but QUIETLY) murdering them. For all the bandwagoning by the team that pays Texas A&M for the privilege of borrowing the Twelth Man, they get it even though most didn't know football existed before last season.

That said, I think this just another reminder of how Goodell and the owners' craving to expand the fanbase (and thus revenue) by promoting quantity at the expense of quality will end up delivering neither, because it dilutes and demeans the game until no one will pay to see it, especially the long time dedicated fans who know the game well enough to, well, KNOW THE GAME and plank down money for tickets, merchandise and NFL Network subscriptions. Casual fans don't spend money, so appealing to them at the expense of REAL fans is counterproductive.

[MOtorboat]

Manning was far more gracious than those idiots deserved there (and more than he was during the game when he was forced to try to hush his own fans, and visibly annoyed by it.) This is freakin' Football 101, and the wine-and-cheeseheads who can't/won't figure it out—get annoyed THEMSELVES when someone with a clue tries to tell them—should sell their tickets to someone who cares enough about the game and the team to have at least a rudimentary understanding of both.

OTHER NFL home crowds get; there are many stadiums (e.g. Mannings old one) where the only sounds on home possessions are crickets and fans mercilessly (but QUIETLY) murdering them. For all the bandwagoning by the team that pays Texas A&M for the privilege of borrowing the Twelth Man, they get it even though most didn't know football existed before last season.

That said, I think this just another reminder of how Goodell and the owners' craving to expand the fanbase (and thus revenue) by promoting quantity at the expense of quality will end up delivering neither, because it dilutes and demeans the game until no one will pay to see it, especially the long time dedicated fans who know the game well enough to, well, KNOW THE GAME and plank down money for tickets, merchandise and NFL Network subscriptions. Casual fans don't spend money, so appealing to them at the expense of REAL fans is counterproductive.

Doesn't that completely contradict the notion of expanding to Europe?

[Joel]

LoL - you guys would hate the Wembley Games - there is no etiquette at all! Just cheering and booing - often quite randomly and for no real reason, this is one of the reasons a UK franchise would be a disaster
In the spirit of off topic posts, the only way to develop European gridiron is with European players on European teams. It was always insane to expect countries that don't care about football in the first place would pay good money to watch foreigners would pay to watch in their NATIVE country even though it INVENTED gridiron football. As long as the NFL tries to treat Europe as a farm league or a place people who don't know how bad the Jags suck will pay to watch them as a novelty act, it'll be as popuar as the LA Galaxy. There are no Rozelles in todays NFL.

You can't grow market share exporting factory rejects places that can afford premium products they'll always buy instead. As of last year, the EU has the worlds highest GDP; that and the oversaturated US market is why the NFL wants in, but it can't GET in trying to sell imported garbage. Adding new US teams would just be a multimillion dollar investment that further diluted the talent and split the revenue 33+ ways instead of 32: It needs EU teams, but the owners don't want to risk their US cash cow by sending them talent.

The simple solution is to develop EU talent on EU teams in an EU league, which avoids jet lagged teams playing transatlantic games. Not only that, it took the AFL a whole generation to catch up the NFL even with teams a decade old at the merger, in a country with tons of experienced football players. The Jets got lucky against a Colts team beat up by the NFL playoffs, the Dolphins had two great years before crashing back to earth, and the Raiders cheated their way to a few titles, but before the '98 Broncos, all SB champs were either NFL teams or FORMER NFL teams.

With a billion people in the modern era, it probably wouldn't take Europe THAT long to catch up, but it WOULD probably be a decade or more before the worst NFL team couldn't consistently destroy the best European team. If the NFL wants to expand across the Pond, it must sink some serious seed money into an 8 team league European in fact, not just name. Enough players don't need a second day job in the offseason, let alone DURING the season (like every player in Eurobowl XXVIII.)

That's probably still less than even one NFL expansion team though; they don't have to buy an NFL quality stadium full of skyboxes, and don't mandate teams pay at least 80% of a $133 million salary cap. The return on investment would be small at first—but the Jags and Browns have been COSTING the owners money pretty much from Day One, and there's no reason to think that will change any time soon; the return on developing a gridiron fanbase among half a billion people producing $16 trillion/year may be long term, but it's HUGE.

[Valar Morghulis]

Doesn't that completely contradict the notion of expanding to Europe?

Expansion will be a financial disaster as well.

Too many casual fans, the novelty will wear off.

The players will hate it, fans off a current team will not change their favourite team. So the fan base will be pedestrian and made up of business tickets and corporate hosting.

The whole thing is nonsense.

[Joel]

Doesn't that completely contradict the notion of expanding to Europe?
In the short term, it contradicts the notion of expanding anywhere football's not already popular, but that limits expansion to Canada and MAYBE Mexico, neither of which can support more than one or two teams. And the US is literally at marginal returns: ANY further expansion can only COST the owners money (and the Jags and Browns consistently running in the red but surviving solely due to revenue-sharing suggests the NFL was past that point at least a decade ago.)

Long term, any successful expansion must develop a native fanbase just as it must develop native players—in fact, it pretty much CAN'T develop the players until/unless it develops the fans.

[Joel]

Expansion will be a financial disaster as well.

Too many casual fans, the novelty will wear off.

The players will hate it, fans off a current team will not change their favourite team. So the fan base will be pedestrian and made up of business tickets and corporate hosting.

The whole thing is nonsense.
Moving NFL teams is insanity for an almost endless list of reasons, but the biggest ones are 1) no one will pay to see foreigners play a foreign game and 2) West Coast teams coming out flat in early East Coast games is NOTHING compared to what 8 hours in the air and a couple more before departure would do. I've tried sleeping on a transatlantic flight; it's not easy, and I don't weigh 150 kilos. Maybe if teams got one or two Europlanes with ~70 beds, but I don't think Boeing or Airbus sell anything like that. Doing it 8 games a year... no way.

The only way it works is with at least a division—preferably a conference—of EU teams playing OTHER EU teams, so we're talking 1-2 hours on a plane instead of 8 every other week. There's just no practical way to integrate that with NFL teams any time soon; it would have to be long term, shooting for something like the AFLs merger 10 years after formation (though that wasn't deliberate.) Once there are enough decent European teams they can play at least half their schedule against each other, and maybe one NFL division, THEN integration might be possible.

Moving NFL teams to Europe though... not only would it be a logistical nightmare, but if the Jags aren't good enough to make a profit in a football crazy town like Jacksonsville, they'll do no better in London. Call up some wealthy football fans like Lamar Hunt did, drop NEW teams in a dozen major EU cities, perhaps affiliated with the local FIFA club (picture the Glazers founding the Manchester Buccaneers, sans West Country accent) and that could work, in time. It would quickly yield respectable but not eye-popping profits on which to build fans, and thus players.

Existing NFL teams in Europe would just be a disaster, but Titanic disasters—ESPECIALLY in Europe—are pretty much the hallmark of NFL promotion efforts since Rozelle died. :(

I had a talk about this with my father-in-law recently, and have often discussed it with friends here: The bottom line's still the bottom line. Europe has at least as many elite athletes as the US; it has almost twice the population, after all—the problem is elite athletes want and get elite MONEY, so US soccer and European gridiron languish for the same reason: No top athlete will work for $30,000/year and love of the game when they can make $3 million/year playing a game they still kinda like. For $3 million/year, I would LEARN to like a LOT of things....

[Simple Jaded]

If these people drank beer instead, like normal people, they'd know better.

[Simple Jaded]

Damn it Dave! Don't get Joel started on expansion!

[BroncoTech]

You learn to be a fan of the NFL from your parents so expansion into Europe is stupid. Equally stupid is expanding your pie hole when the O has the ball. So, no expansion!

[Joel]

More to the point, because the owners can't GET any more money out of the US; 4 expansion teams in the last 20 years have pushed it to the point new US teams are no longer profitable.


You learn to be a fan of the NFL from your parents so expansion into Europe is stupid.
That's not strictly true; when my dad was a kid, the NFL was a second tier league for guys too old to play "real football" but unwilling to quit. The beginning of the change is usually dated to the 1958 Colts-Giants OT NFL Championship, nationally televised to 45 million of 170 million Americans, few of whom watched because grandparents made parents fans when the NFL was created 38 years earlier. My father was a diehard Cowboys fan from their founding, the same year the AFL was founded, and two years after Landry was the losing DC in that 1958 Championship.

The NFL rose from a second tier over the hill league to what it is because of that nationally broadcast sudden death Championship in 1958, the ensuing AFL and Pete Rozelle, all of which were about promotion, not inherited loyalties. Even in the '60s, the NFL remained a distant second to MLB in the US, but Rozelle changed all that after the merger by awarding contracts to EACH of the the three networks then existing: NBC got the AFL, CBS got the NFC, and ABC got the consolation prize: Monday Night Football, the first game broadcast nationwide in prime time.

The AFL (and thus AFC, Super Bowl and half the NFL) owes its survival and existence to agressive promotion, not fans raised on the NFL; for Denver, Dallas and every team before, fans raised on pro football only came much later. The AFL came up with players names on jerseys to compete with the NFL on TV by showcasing college stars who gave the AFL legitimacy when pro football was still just an afterthought. Likewise, passing looks better on TV, so the AFL was a passers league (though it's also easier for new teams to get a QB and 1-2 WRs than a RB and 5 blockers.)

Rozelle finished the job and wrote the blueprint after the merger, but his grossly inferior successors can't or won't follow it. NFL Europe was a disaster because there was nothing European about it except the location. All players were American rejects (except kickers, because the league initially required at least ONE foreign player on each roster) and by the end it was derisively called "NFL Germany" because all surviving teams moved there; US military bases made Germany the only place teams could stay in the black. That built nothing but Kurt Warner.

To expand, the NFL needs a foreign AFL that either remains forever independent or merges with the NFL only AFTER it has competitive native talent and enough native teams there aren't a dozen squads crossing the Atlantic weekly to play at what their body thinks is 3AM. American football will come to Europe through European players on European teams in a European leagues European games, and eventually they'll play one or two gripping high profile games that captivate a continents with more than just a novelty.

That's how the NFL gained US respectability and fans, and the only way it can anywhere. You can bet the owners will keep trying though (and remember, the Commissioner—ESPECIALLY now—is no more than a mouthpiece for whatever all 32 owners want.) What they want is even more money, which they can't get from the US, and the EU has more of than the US anyway.


Equally stupid is expanding your pie hole when the O has the ball. So, no expansion!
No argument there; are we back on topic now? Is the NFL making enough off the 20 year wave of skyboxes to PAY for their inflated construction costs, or will more teams move because local voters refuse to throw more tax dollars into THOSE money pits? And, if so, will any NEW cities shell out a billion tax dollars just to have them? Will the more passing (or defensive penalties) boost ratings enough to make up for merchandise sales lost as more people who DID learn football from their parents realize that game no longer exists?

The reality owners clearly don't get is that the wine and cheese crowd doesn't make the NFLs profits: The beer 'n brats crowd does. 'Grats to the '9ers on the veggie burgers announcers raved about at their new stadium though; I'm sure guys who've worn the same faded tattered Roger Craig jersey every Sunday for the past 30 years will pay big bucks for those. ;)

[BroncoNut]

Jesus Joel

[Italianmobstr7]

I attend every home game (regular season and playoffs) and I can't believe how some of our fans act for those games. The fact that people do the wave or yell and scream while our offense is on the field is so ridiculous. Not sure why people don't get that they're supposed to be quiet when the offense is on the field. Really infuriating when stupid stuff like that happens.

[slim]

I attend every home game (regular season and playoffs) and I can't believe how some of our fans act for those games. The fact that people do the wave or yell and scream while our offense is on the field is so ridiculous. Not sure why people don't get that they're supposed to be quiet when the offense is on the field. Really infuriating when stupid stuff like that happens.

Sounds like you need to do a better job regulating those around you. Crack some skulls if you have to.

[GEM]

The young lady sitting next to us got up from her seat no less that 8 times to run to the wine cart. By the 8th time, she spilled her wine on the guy in front of us who got up and told her to go drink at home and asked her who the **** was driving her home. :shocked:

She was entertaining though....she spilled her wine on her boyfriend's lap, he got pissy, she splashed water on his lap and proceeded to wipe it out and it looked like she was giving him the business ( :heh: ) It was more interesting to watch than the game. :D

[Valar Morghulis]

it looked like she was giving him the business ( :heh: )

love this expression!