Matt Prater suspended first 4 games.

[GEM]

Per the Denver Post. Alcohol related substance abuse policy.

[GEM]

http:// http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26394817/matt-prater-suspended-by-nfl-first-four-games

[MOtorboat]

Cut him.

[GEM]

You're drunk, go home... But don't drive there, you'll be suspended.

[MOtorboat]

I was unaware that players in the program could not consume at all.

I wonder how the league busted him, if the "he was on vacation and had a couple" line is true?

[GEM]

I was unaware that players in the program could not consume at all.

I wonder how the league busted him, if the "he was on vacation and had a couple" line is true?

Especially when a it beats his girlfriend unconscious on tape and gets 2 games.

Idiot kickers.

[MOtorboat]

Especially when a it beats his girlfriend unconscious on tape and gets 2 games.

Idiot kickers.

And the league wanted a year-long suspension?

Did he Donte Stallworth someone without anyone knowing?

[GEM]

Not sure why they have had him kick in preseason, seems that rookie should have been getting the game time experience.

[Joel]

One word: Kickalicious.

[Dzone]

The new kicker sucked when it counted

[Dapper Dan]

What the hell?

[UnderArmour]

Judging from his performance this preseason, I think he was actually showing up to games after drinking and potentially sneaking it in during the preseason. Doesn't appear to be a DUI, so recent consumption probably just showed in his urine sample. Hope he gets help and develops the sense to not show up to work blitzed.

[Joel]

The new kicker sucked when it counted
To be fair, so did the old one, else it wouldn't have counted for the new one.

[Valar Morghulis]

One word: Kickalicious.

This is the greatest idea - ever in the history of the whole world. lol.

[Tned]

So, he had a couple beers at home and got four games. . Did they say how he even gut caught. I didn't see that in the article.

Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Forum Runner

[VonDoom]

Was he drunk during the game? Because he sucked. So did Ewald, unfortunately. So now do we have to carry two kickers on the 53 man, or does Prater count differently? It's too early for me to remember how this works.

[Joel]

This is the greatest idea - ever in the history of the whole world. lol.
It would certainly work out well for him; he'd get 4 games worth of regular season experience to put on his resume for other teams, and 4 weeks pay would probably cover the cost of airfare and living expenses (although now that vacations are over here he might not be able to get time off work.) And I'm pretty sure Rugland can handle working outside in a Denver winter. It's not like we'd be losing much without Ewald; if he can't handle the "pressure" of a preseason 30 yarder at Mile High, we can't count on him for a last second game-winning kick @Seattle.

All that said: Dude kicks FGs (and balls) out of midair, and into boats and moving vehicles; the thought of that at Mile High always makes me smile. He hit at least one (and I think TWO) from 50+ with the Lions last preseason, but when I googled him last week all I saw was a blurb about a tryout with Arizona last January. If we're giving up Praters record-setting leg because he can't stay off the bottle, it should be for a guy who could conceivably hit 70 yd Mile High kicks in the snow. We'd have to import the CFLs Rouge. :tongue:

[Joel]

Was he drunk during the game? Because he sucked. So did Ewald, unfortunately. So now do we have to carry two kickers on the 53 man, or does Prater count differently? It's too early for me to remember how this works.
I haven't checked, but he's not hurt: He's being punished for misbehavior, and my understanding was part of the leagues motive with suspensions was to punish TEAMS as well, encouraging them to discourage misbehavior in their players (or simply release/not sign those likely to put them in this situation.) I don't think we got an extra roster spot during Millers suspension.

[Valar Morghulis]

, it should be for a guy who could conceivably hit 70 yd Mile High kicks in the snow.

Preferably from a moving boat or something lol.

[Joel]

Preferably from a moving boat or something lol.
Well, if HE'S in the boat, it'd have to be big enough to fit the holder, too, and I'm not sure Brewer's up to that kind of long snap.

I frankly don't know why the guy's not on a team; he had a great camp and preseason last year, but Akers is one of the all time greats who only had to prove his awful final year in SF was a fluke. I get the whole "totally new to football" thing, but: It's a KICKER; his SOLE job is to accurately kick a football just like he would a soccer ball, something Rugland's clearly mastered. And he's from Norway, the country that literally INVENTED THE SPIRAL and has the ONLY pure kicker in the Hall of Fame. This is a no brainer; it's at least worth flying him to Mile High for a tryout.

[Joel]

Okay, technically I misremembered: When Rugland was 3 for 3 last preseason he only hit ONE from 50; the other was 49. Granted, both were in Detroits dome, but Ewald missed from 36 in Denvers thin air. Oh, and since Rugland's never played a DOWN before or since last preseason he has plenty of PS eligibility left if the coaches decide he's still not ready for prime time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A5vard_Rugland

[sneakers]

You could have seen this coming, because no one gets a barbed wire arm tattoo sober.

[Northman]

Dumbass. This shit just keeps getting better and better.

[BORDERLINE]

Next man up then. Our offense needs to score TD's instead of field goals for the 1st 4 games lol. And I bet they will

[BroncoJoe]

No wonder he stunk last night. His kickoffs weren't even reaching the endzone.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

DENVER -- Denver Broncos kicker Matt Prater will be suspended for the first four games of the regular season for a violation of the NFL's substance-abuse program, multiple team sources confirmed following the team's 18-17 preseason loss to the Houston Texans.

Prater, who has been in the league's program since an August 2011 DUI arrest, acknowledged the suspension to the Broncos and confirmed the four games to The Denver Post on Saturday night before he left Sports Authority Field at Mile High.

The suspension is alcohol-related, according to the newspaper.

A Broncos spokesman said the team would have no comment on the suspension "at this time.'' Prater and Broncos coach John Fox had a brief discussion in the locker room following the game.

rest - http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11401195/denver-broncos-kicker-matt-prater-suspended-four-games-violation-nfl-substance-abuse-policy

[broncofaninfla]

So Ray Rice can beat the shit out of his girlfriend only get two games but Prater has a drinking it's for?

[spikerman]

You could have seen this coming, because no one gets a barbed wire arm tattoo sober.

Plus he totally has a beer belly.

[BroncoWave]

I was thinking watching the game last night how he was looking a little porky. Makes sense now.

[Joel]

You could have seen this coming, because no one gets a barbed wire arm tattoo sober.
I just didn't know the NFL had banned players drinking at home in the offseason, but apparently it did for anyone with a DUI. Do Budweiser and Miller know about this (please, no "bud" and "Miller" jokes; that's a totally other totally wrong thing for which he should've been summarily executed;))? Do the folks in Golden, CO?

I found a pretty thorough Bleacher Report article (alright, alright, but the author claims membership in the Pro Football Writers of America) on NFL drug policy, that just reminded me how bass ackward it is. The article's from last year, so has great photos: It's headlined with a shot of Von Miller (suspended the first 6 games for pot,) and later has Brandon Browner (suspended a year for PEDs before getting it overturned) and Richard Sherman (also suspended for PEDs, but also getting it overturned.) http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1875478-breaking-down-how-the-nfl-substance-abuse-policy-works

The article polled readers on whether a positive PED test, positive marijuana test or DUI arrest is worse: By a narrow margin, PEDs got the most votes (48.6%) over DUI arrests (46%) with marijuana a VERY distant third at 5.3%. As it should be, IMHO, not because marijuana's okay, acceptable or whatever, but for two bigger reasons:

1) DUIs kill people and 2) Drug-enhanced stars are not only cheats, but encourage ALL young athletes to destroy their bodies the same way for the same "achievements," creating an environment where aspiring athletes feel they MUST dope just to remain competitive against all the OTHER dopers.

By comparison, yes, weed—ANY illegal recreational drug—is small potatoes. When Dallas cops found Michael Irvin in a crackhouse wearing nothing but a pipe, no Pop Warner players thought to themselves, Wow, I'm gonna smoke LOTS of crack till it makes me as good as Michael Irvin...! He cheated no one but himself, in ANY sense.

Here's the thing: Brandon Browner came to our '05 camp as an UDFA scrub, broke his arm, was waived and went to the CFL—which didn't test for PEDs—where he immediately became a star. But in 2010 the CFL began drug testing, so a year later Browner brought his newfound fame home to a starting spot in Seattle—and immediately popped for PEDs, popped again the NEXT year and got suspended, then AGAIN the THIRD year (the trifecta!) for a full year ban. That he got overturned.

Sherman popped for Adderall and the article quotes his statement he "didn't do anything," because he has a prescription and "half the league's on it." But his official story on appeal was that he mistakenly grabbed a teammates Adderall-laced water bottle in a game. Okay, so the NFL allows Adderall by prescription—but NOT DURING GAMES (and I don't think spiked water bottles are the medically approved dosing means.) If Shermans story's true, his teammate violated the NFL PED policy: Any word on that teammates name or suspension...?

Sadly, the NFL is harder on "substance abuse" than "anabolic steroids and related substances" for PRECISELY the reason it should be the reverse: Because PEDs win games and championships, which sell jerseys, tickets and beer (but players with DUI arrests can't have any of that last one.) Performance enhancing drugs get players to Pro Bowls; the Shawne Merriman Rule was supposed to outlaw that, but when Carlos Rogers got hurt in 2012, there was Brandon Browner in the Pro Bowl despite a PED suspension the same season.

Michael Irvin arrested naked in a crack house is bad for the NFLs image, which HURTS jersey sales, so that's different; PTA moms don't buy their kids crackhead jerseys. So Von Miller misses 6 games for weed, while Richard Sherman and Brandon Browner roid-rage their way to a Championship and even have their suspensions overturned when caught. And if you've got a 10-year-old son, brother or nephew who wants to "Be Like Mike" in the NFL, you can bet he'll do it like Sherman says "half the league" does, even if it gives him cancer and/or makes him a sociopath.

Oh, well; at least he's not on drugs.... :)

Sorry for the extended rant; it's an old and bitter complaint this just brought to mind. Too bad booze doesn't make kicks go farther and straighter, or Prater could appeal.

[BroncoWave]

Sorry for the extended rant

Just don't do it again! :D

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Plus he totally has a beer belly.

Not only that, but he has been kicking TERRIBLE this year.

[Joel]

Just don't do it again! :D
Well, I always say, "if you're sorry, you STOP," but can't make any promises.... ;)

[CrazyHorse]

Now it makes sense why Mitch Ewald has been kept. He'll be our kicker for the first 4 games. Let's hope he does well. At least Prater won't count against a roster spot.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 9h

Regarding Prater, there's always more to the story. Find it hard to believe he'd be suspended four games just for drinking beer.

[CrazyHorse]

I wonder if we can coax Jason Elam out of retirement?

[MasterShake]

It was fun to see him kick that record breaker last year, but I don't remember him being as vital as he was before we got Manning. Hopefully this just puts more emphasis on clock control with the running game and being aggressive on offense.

Kickers... :rolleyes:

[Dzone]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 9h

Regarding Prater, there's always more to the story. Find it hard to believe he'd be suspended four games just for drinking beer.
Agreed. Steinberg saying the NFL shouldnt suspend him because it was just a couple beers-typical attorney talk, their client is always innocent. Thats like saying come on it was just a couple puffs on a joint. Prater knew the rules and he couldnt put down the bottle, even if it could ruin his career. Alcoholism is brutal.

[Dzone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GILXUJa2l1w

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


In his eighth season, Prater had been a member of the NFL's alcohol program since soon after he was charged with DUI in August 2011.

"I've made some mistakes," Prater told The Post of his suspension, which is expected to be announced Monday. "I'm accepting full responsibility. I'll learn from it and come back a better person. I want to apologize to my teammates, my coaches, the Broncos' organization and the fans."

The newspaper reported that the ban was part of an agreement reached between the league and Prater's attorney, Harvey Steinberg, after the NFL initially threatened a one-year punishment.

"No one feels worse about this than Matt Prater," Steinberg told the newspaper. "He feels terribly for his teammates. It's cost him personally, both professionally and financially. I wonder if we shouldn't take a second look at the policy when only a couple beers were consumed at home while he was on vacation. Having said that, the NFL under the constraints of the policy couldn't have treated us better."

full article - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000383065/article/matt-prater-of-denver-broncos-says-hes-suspended

In different articles I have read, it almost appears that the Broncos did NOT know about this until after the game last night. I would think if they did know, they would have had the other kicker do all of the kicking, with Prater doing no kicking. As you can see, I am confused.

[CrazyHorse]

from article:


full article - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000383065/article/matt-prater-of-denver-broncos-says-hes-suspended

In different articles I have read, it almost appears that the Broncos did NOT know about this until after the game last night. I would think if they did know, they would have had the other kicker do all of the kicking, with Prater doing no kicking. As you can see, I am confused.

Interesting. So keeping Ewald was just coincidence?

[GEM]

Agreed. Steinberg saying the NFL shouldnt suspend him because it was just a couple beers-typical attorney talk, their client is always innocent. Thats like saying come on it was just a couple puffs on a joint. Prater knew the rules and he couldnt put down the bottle, even if it could ruin his career. Alcoholism is brutal.

Yes, what's he going to say... My client is a raging alcoholic, he can't stay of the sauce. :lol:

[GEM]

I think they did know about it and pulled in another kicker at the last minute. Ewald wasn't even listed on the roster at the scrimmages. I hunk they scrambled for a kicker the minute they found out. Had they not gotten prior knowledge of it, or it wasn't happening, they wouldn't have had the other guy in camp. I also think the NFL notifies the team, not the player.

[MOtorboat]

I think they did know about it and pulled in another kicker at the last minute. Ewald wasn't even listed on the roster at the scrimmages. I hunk they scrambled for a kicker the minute they found out. Had they not gotten prior knowledge of it, or it wasn't happening, they wouldn't have had the other guy in camp. I also think the NFL notifies the team, not the player.

Ewald was signed in July, and Denver typically has two or three kickers in camp. I think they might have had three in 2013.

[GEM]

He was the only player not listed on the roster. I don't think the NFL would not contact the team and make them aware of a pending suspension.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


Prater tested positive for alcohol use. Though alcohol is neither a banned substance nor illegal, Prater was in the NFL's alcohol-abuse program due to a DUI in 2011.

Prater was arrested in August 2011 and charged with driving under the influence after a hit-and-run incident outside a local hotel. While he was not suspended then, the arrest made him subject to random tests.
AND


That said, there isn't a shortage of quality kickers available on the market. Rob Bironas, Lawrence Tynes and Rian Lindell are just three of a handful of quality veterans the Broncos could choose to sign over trusting an undrafted rookie. Bironas in particular being a free agent is surprising, given he has made 80 percent or better of his kicks in each of the last seven seasons.

full article - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2173848-matt-prater-suspended-latest-details-comments-and-reaction

[GEM]

They are going to have to call one of those guys in, I would think. Missing a 30 harder in Denver, not good.

[CrazyHorse]

They are going to have to call one of those guys in, I would think. Missing a 30 harder in Denver, not good.

So will they just sign them on the contingency that they'll play 4 games or what?

[Joel]

Now it makes sense why Mitch Ewald has been kept. He'll be our kicker for the first 4 games. Let's hope he does well. At least Prater won't count against a roster spot.
He won't? Why's that? Did Miller not count against a roster spot the first month-and-a-half of last year? This is the 21st Century NFL, where teams are responsible (and accountable) for all their players, so coaches/GMs must either avoid bad boys, find them babysitters or deal with the consequences. It's Goodells version of "You'll never work in this town again," so everyone who can't keep their nose clean must be able to convince a GM they'll be the winning difference in more games than they'll miss on suspension.

Maybe substance abuse suspensions are different; I haven't checked, so if that's what you're saying, please confirm, 'cause it's news to me. The NFL's gotta product its brand, and that means ensuring all vendors maintain rigorous consistent quality control over the product they sell. Kinda like breweries and other drug dealers. :tongue:

[CrazyHorse]

He won't? Why's that? Did Miller not count against a roster spot the first month-and-a-half of last year? This is the 21st Century NFL, where teams are responsible (and accountable) for all their players, so coaches/GMs must either avoid bad boys, find them babysitters or deal with the consequences. It's Goodells version of "You'll never work in this town again," so everyone who can't keep their nose clean must be able to convince a GM they'll be the winning difference in more games than they'll miss on suspension.

Maybe substance abuse suspensions are different; I haven't checked, so if that's what you're saying, please confirm, 'cause it's news to me. The NFL's gotta product its brand, and that means ensuring all vendors maintain rigorous consistent quality control over the product they sell. Kinda like breweries and other drug dealers. :tongue:

According to this Miller didn't count against the 53 man roster, so no Prater won't either. We'll either keep Ewald or hopefully sign a veteran kicker. I hope that guy is Bironas.
http://predominantlyorange.com/2013/08/28/projecting-the-denver-broncos-53-man-roster/

[broncofaninfla]

@AdamSchefter: Turns out Broncos K Matt Prater was facing a year-long suspension that his attorney, Harvey Steinberg, got reduced to four games.

[Nomad]

What's up with Manning and liquor-upped kickers:lol:

[Joel]

So will they just sign them on the contingency that they'll play 4 games or what?
Kick. A. LICIOUS. He'd kill for a 4 game deal, and I think we can even pay him rookie minimum, or at least no more than a second year salary. He's never missed an NFL kick; granted, he's only TRIED 5, but 1 was from 50 and another from 49. The only downside I see is he only had 2 touchbacks in 8 kickoffs—but 3 of our first 4 games are at Mile High, so....

He looks a LOT better than an aging former starter from a cap perspective; I don't know if we could pro rate a 4 week contract, but if not, current minimum wage for a 10 year vet is $945,000; for rookies it's $420,000, and $495,000 for second year players. And, who knows, if he does a good job and we're worried about Prater falling off the wagon and missing a whole year, we could PS Rugland; he doesn't have an accrued year, and wouldn't even after starting the first 4 games of this year; that's not an option with a Bironas or Tynes (who's very inconsistent.)

Heck, if a Scottish soccer player like Tynes can get a Super Bowl Ring, a Norwegian soccer player like Rugland ought to be pretty good.

[Joel]

According to this Miller didn't count against the 53 man roster, so no Prater won't either. We'll either keep Ewald or hopefully sign a veteran kicker. I hope that guy is Bironas.
http://predominantlyorange.com/2013/08/28/projecting-the-denver-broncos-53-man-roster/
Fair enough then; thanks for the confirmation. Maybe we don't need to hire 53 babysitters after all.

[CrazyHorse]

Kick. A. LICIOUS. He'd kill for a 4 game deal, and I think we can even pay him rookie minimum, or at least no more than a second year salary. He's never missed an NFL kick; granted, he's only TRIED 5, but 1 was from 50 and another from 49. The only downside I see is he only had 2 touchbacks in 8 kickoffs—but 3 of our first 4 games are at Mile High, so....

He looks a LOT better than an aging former starter from a cap perspective; I don't know if we could pro rate a 4 week contract, but if not, current minimum wage for a 10 year vet is $945,000; for rookies it's $420,000, and $495,000 for second year players. And, who knows, if he does a good job and we're worried about Prater falling off the wagon and missing a whole year, we could PS Rugland; he doesn't have an accrued year, and wouldn't even after starting the first 4 games of this year; that's not an option with a Bironas or Tynes (who's very inconsistent.)

Heck, if a Scottish soccer player like Tynes can get a Super Bowl Ring, a Norwegian soccer player like Rugland ought to be pretty good.

Isn't that the guy Detroit signed earlier this year. I almost forgot about him. I'd take him or a veteran over Ewald at this point.

[Joel]

Isn't that the guy Detroit signed earlier this year. I almost forgot about him. I'd take him or a veteran over Ewald at this point.
Yup, that guy, except it was last year; his only workout this year was with Arizona in January. When NFL Europe existed, there was a rule that let teams keep one extra PS guy from overseas, and it's still on the books, so the Lions tried to use it to make him their 9th PS member, but the NFL said, "that rule's for NFL Europe, which no longer exists, so neither does the rule." Even though it's still right there on the books.

Anyway, yeah, that's the guy, and a one month contract would be perfect for him and us; it would get him the literal foot in the NFL door he so desperately needs, cost us peanuts (not sure if last year counts as his rookie season for pay purposes, since he didn't make the Opening Day roster) and we could even PS him for the rest of this year (and up to two more) if we're worried Prater can't stay sober. And, well, he's a GOOD kicker; never missed in the NFL, powerful leg, grew up in Mile-High-in-December cold. Here's the original video for old times sake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDwbjHV8jLo

Here's the sequel from the start of this years camp, offering pointers to the Lions punter: http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/04/25/havard-rugland-is-at-it-again-video/

Tell me that doesn't look like a textbook NFL FG, arcing out and then back in to split the uprights right down the middle. Well, it looks like it after the SECOND kick; most kickers don't bounce it off the back of their heel, then kick it out of the air. From (near as I can eyeball) close the range Ewald missed from with someone holding the ball still on the ground for him.

[OB]

Well this just sucks. I really was hoping I'd find some more details here but it seems no real details have been released.

This seems so stupid. Players can beat and shoot people, they can take PEDs but god freaking forbid if you smoke a joint or drink a beer :rolleyes:

[BroncoWave]

Didn't realize Rob Bironas was a FA. I would pick that guy up yesterday. He has always been solid.

[Joel]

Didn't realize Rob Bironas was a FA. I would pick that guy up yesterday. He has always been solid.
He's 36, and you'd pay him at least $945,000 for a full season. Again, I'm not sure if a team can pay less if they release a guy after 4 games, but, all things considered, I'm not sure we can afford to be without another kicker after Week 5. I'm sure we can get Rugland for less than half of that though, and PS him afterward for insurance with little risk of someone else snatching him off waivers. He's got a strong accurate leg that made FGs from 50 and 49 and never missed a FG or PAT, even though it was less than a year since he kicked his first football EVER.

Again, the only downside was he only had 2 touchbacks in 8 kickoffs last preseason, but since 3 of our first 4 games are in Mile High air, that doesn't worry me much. And I wouldn't have to worry about how he'd handle Mile High wind and snow come December. He doesn't have much football experience, but, y'know: Name 3 NFL kickers who do. :tongue:

[GEM]

Structure the contract front heavy for 4 games. Dude at the end of his career gets a few extra bucks in the bank, team gets short term relief in the interim.

[Dapper Dan]

I'm not sure if it's been pointed out, but how long does the damn program last? It's been 3 years.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Denver Broncos kicker Matt Prater has been suspended for the first four games of the NFL season after violating the league's substance abuse policy, according to The Denver Post. The issue at hand here is alcohol, not performance-enhancing drugs.

What did Prater do to earn the suspension? He was guilty of drinking a couple beers at home while on vacation, according to his attorney. Prater has been in the league's alcohol program since he was charged with a DUI in 2011. The NFL reportedly wanted to suspend the kicker for a full season before settling for four games.

The NFL's substance abuse policy says "the use of alcohol may be prohibited for individual players in certain situations where clinically indicated in accordance with the terms of this Policy." Here's a look at the section about alcohol-related offenses:

rest - http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/8/24/6062315/denver-broncos-matt-prater-suspension

[Joel]

Structure the contract front heavy for 4 games. Dude at the end of his career gets a few extra bucks in the bank, team gets short term relief in the interim.
Do we still have to pay a full years contract for those 4 games though? Roughly $1 million for 4 weeks is a pretty steep price tag, and the cap doesn't care if he plays 4 weeks, months or days. Say we average 3.5 TDs/gm (just over last years record-breaking pace, without facing arguably the best two Ds in the league) and 2 FGs/gm. There'll be a kickoff after each one, and one to start one of the two halves, so that's a total 26 plays for which we pay a MINIMUM of $945,000. About $40,000/play? Abour $30,000/pt? That's what we paid Manning per point last year.

I'm genuinely curious, but can't imagine how we could have an active roster player making less than a years salary, and that'll hurt a little even at the rookie rate (plus the roster spot, of course.) That's assuming Prater stays on the wagon through next year; Rotoworld shows him with a $3 million bonus on a 3 year contract, so that means he hits us for $1 million next year no matter what, right? Even if we have to sign a second kicker for that season, too.

In a way, this screws us more than Millers suspension; at least then we had the consolation of hoping we'd be signing a quality role player who could backup him and the other two starting LBs: Kickers only do two things, and those rarely, so whoever fills for Prater until his suspension ends is doing just that and nothing more—but we still have to pay him and fit him on the 53.

[Joel]

I'm not sure if it's been pointed out, but how long does the damn program last? It's been 3 years.
"So I'm here until I die?"

"Until they kill ya, yeah...."

From all I've seen, once a player gets a DUI, he's on the wagon for the rest of his NFL career—one way or the other....

[BroncoWave]

I deleted that post Joel.

[Davii]

This is complete bullshit. Alcohol is a legal substance. Certainly he should get in trouble for DUI or anything else illegal, but because he had trouble 3 years ago he can be suspended now for legally using a legal substance? ******* stupid.

Ray Rice knocks his girlfriend unconscious on tape, 2 games. Colts owner does whatever the **** he wants, DUI on pills, etc, nothing. Guys popping on piss tests for any recreational drug get 4 games for a second offense and that's an illegal substance.

No law broken, go **** yourself Goodell.

[Joel]

I deleted that post Joel.
Not fast enough. But yeah, that's why. I honestly don't know if less than a years contract's an option, but if not... it sucks, because whomever we get hits us for cap space and forces us to cut someone we'd otherwise keep. I guess we can give him what we would've paid the guy we cut; another argument for a young guy: It's cap-neutral.

[Nomad]

I sure hope it wasn't cheap lite beer.

signed

dogfish

:D

[Joel]

This is complete bullshit. Alcohol is a legal substance. Certainly he should get in trouble for DUI or anything else illegal, but because he had trouble 3 years ago he can be suspended now for legally using a legal substance? ******* stupid.

Ray Rice knocks his girlfriend unconscious on tape, 2 games. Colts owner does whatever the **** he wants, DUI on pills, etc, nothing. Guys popping on piss tests for any recreational drug get 4 games for a second offense and that's an illegal substance.

No law broken, go **** yourself Goodell.
Let's not forget the guys popping multiple times for PEDs and getting nothing but Super Bowl Rings and Pro Bowl spots—even though the NFL passed a rule specifically banning guys from the Pro Bowl any season they piss dirty for PEDs. Browner hasn't pissed clean in THREE YEARS, but still got his Ring last year and went to the Pro Bowl the year before that.

Make the league look bad, that hurts the product, so the league hurts you; make the league look good, that helps the product, so the league helps you. I gots to get paid, yo.

[MOtorboat]

I'm not sure if it's been pointed out, but how long does the damn program last? It's been 3 years.

Whole career.

[Nomad]

Whole career.

He can't have a beer the rest of his NFL career. How did they find out he had a couple beers at home?

[MOtorboat]

He can't have a beer the rest of his NFL career. How did they find out he had a couple beers at home?

I didn't know the first part of your post until last night, and I have no clue on the second part. It seems ridiculous to me.

Apparently, he would have been better off beating his wife than he would be drinking a beer. How ****** up is that?

[Joel]

He can't have a beer the rest of his NFL career. How did they find out he had a couple beers at home?
Same way they found out Miller had a couple joints at a party.

[MOtorboat]

Same way they found out Miller had a couple joints at a party.

No, Miller purposely cheated a test, in front of a tester. Wildly different situation.

[BroncoWave]

I didn't know the first part of your post until last night, and I have no clue on the second part. It seems ridiculous to me.

Apparently, he would have been better off beating his wife than he would be drinking a beer. How ****** up is that?

I feel like there has to be more to this than him just having a beer at home. If that's all it was, a suspension would be ****ing ridiculous. How would the NFL even know about that, unless they randomly can knock on his door and breathalyze him.

[MOtorboat]

I feel like there has to be more to this than him just having a beer at home. If that's all it was, a suspension would be ****ing ridiculous. How would the NFL even know about that, unless they randomly can knock on his door and breathalyze him.

According to the Post, the NFL wanted a year. Without an incident with the law, I don't even know how that's possible.

[MOtorboat]

The SBNation link has the actual rule. All I can think of is that he violated probation, but that's public record and likely would've been reported previously.

[BroncoWave]

According to the Post, the NFL wanted a year. Without an incident with the law, I don't even know how that's possible.

You would sure think it was an incident with the law. I'm sure all the facts will come out eventually. I just don't buy that it was as simple as "he had a few beers at home". That very may well have been the first part of the story though, followed by he went for a drive or something of the like.

[Nomad]

You would sure think it was an incident with the law. I'm sure all the facts will come out eventually. I just don't buy that it was as simple as "he had a few beers at home". That very may well have been the first part of the story though, followed by he went for a drive or something of the like.

You're right. There has to be more than just 'having a couple beers at home'.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

You're right. There has to be more than just 'having a couple beers at home'.

Maybe not

from article:


Steinberg said Prater had been in the NFL's substance abuse program since a drunken driving arrest in suburban Denver in Aug. 2011, and was prohibited from drinking alcohol, a common stipulation for players with DUI arrests. Steinberg said Prater tested positive for alcohol this summer after drinking beer at his home, while on vacation.

full article - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/08/24/report-broncos-k-matt-prater-faces-4-game-ban/14523505/

He was prohibited from drinking alcohol, and the league can test him at any time. He got caught.

from another article:


"I've made some mistakes," Prater said. "I'm accepting full responsibility. I'll learn from it and come back a better person. I want to apologize to my teammates, my coaches, the Broncos' organization and the fans."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26394817/matt-prater-suspended-by-nfl-first-four-games?source=hot-topic-bar

[tomjonesrocks]

Alcohol is detectable such a short period of time--I don't really get it. He'd have to have gotten loaded at night and had to test the next morning or sooner.

DUI is profoundly stupid when you have as much money for drivers as Prater has--but forbidding a drink for life, even during the offseason, as a stipulation after is really over the top.

[Valar Morghulis]

Alcohol is detectable such a short period of time--I don't really get it. He'd have to have gotten loaded at night and had to test the next morning or sooner.

DUI is profoundly stupid when you have as much money for drivers as Prater has--but forbidding a drink for life, even during the offseason, as a stipulation after is really over the top.

alcohol can be in your system for a few days - detectable via a piss test.

he could have had 6er on a wednesday and got tested on a fri morning

[tomjonesrocks]

alcohol can be in your system for a few days - detectable via a piss test. he could have had 6er on a wednesday and got tested on a fri morning

Wonder how many days notice these guys get.

[OB]

I do know those breathalyzers that you put in your car are hypersensitive. I've known a couple of the kids' friends who have had them and if they get drunk one day it can take the whole next day before they can't Start their car

I also wonder if prater had to sign up for this alcohol free lifestyle in order to even be allowed to play or did he sign it to get a weaker punishment after his DUI. Also does anyone else know if this has happened to any other player. There have been Quite a few players over the years with dui's but I never read anyone else getting suspended because of this before.

[Valar Morghulis]

Wonder how many days notice these guys get.

I would not be surprised if they just turned up with no notice

[Timmy!]

The DUI (now 3 years ago) is one thing, getting suspended for having a beer on vacation is beyond ridiculous.

[dogfish]

prater likes to party. . .

[Valar Morghulis]

The DUI (now 3 years ago) is one thing, getting suspended for having a beer on vacation is beyond ridiculous.

I agree.

But if he knew those were the rules and the consequences - then as a well paid professional athlete he should have towed the line and stayed off the booze until he was not playing anymore.

No matter how stupid the rule is - if you break it, your the idiot.

[dogfish]

maybe we can can get some 90s cowboys kinda swagger goin'. . .

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The 2011 arrest came within days of the end of the NFL lockout, and Prater – who at the time was a restricted free agent – was not allowed to practice with the team because of the NFL's post-lockout rules.

That was Prater's second DUI while with the Broncos. According to records from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement obtained by USA TODAY Sports, Prater was charged with DUI in Orlando January 2008, about a month after he was signed by the Broncos. Court records show Prater pleaded no contest to that charge and was sentenced to one year probation, 50 hours of community service and had his license suspended for six months. Prater completed probation in 2009, and was not in the NFL's drug program at the time of his arrest in 2011, Steinberg said.

Steinberg said he and the NFL had negotiated Prater's punishment down to four games from a year's ban – the punishment for a violation for a player in stage three of the drug program. The punishment was finalized before Denver's third preseason game Saturday night against Houston.

full article - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/08/24/report-broncos-k-matt-prater-faces-4-game-ban/14523505/

[MOtorboat]

I guess I'd just like to know what the violation was this time. A failed test, a run-in we haven't heard about?

[Northman]

Maybe not

from article:



full article - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/08/24/report-broncos-k-matt-prater-faces-4-game-ban/14523505/

He was prohibited from drinking alcohol, and the league can test him at any time. He got caught.

from another article:



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26394817/matt-prater-suspended-by-nfl-first-four-games?source=hot-topic-bar


Yea, i was going to say it was probably something that MO brought up and he violated some kind of probation. If the league felt he had a alcohol problem and put him on probation and he broke it than i can see why they gave him the punishment.

[BroncoWave]

I think it's a pretty BS stipulation that he isn't allowed to ever drink at all for the rest of his career because of one DUI. That seems really over the top.

[Northman]

I think it's a pretty BS stipulation that he isn't allowed to ever drink at all for the rest of his career because of one DUI. That seems really over the top.

Well, i know a while back some people were clamoring that the NFL doesnt do enough to help players who have addictive problems. Maybe Prater's alcohol issue is more serious than we think?

[DenBronx]

Noway can Ray Rice beat his gf and only get 2 games but Prater gets a 4 game suspension? Are you kidding me? Appeal this shit Matt!

[Northman]

Noway can Ray Rice beat his gf and only get 2 games but Prater gets a 4 game suspension? Are you kidding me? Appeal this shit Matt!

I have a feeling the NFL would just say that was Ray's first offense while Prater had previous history of alcohol issues.

[MOtorboat]

Noway can Ray Rice beat his gf and only get 2 games but Prater gets a 4 game suspension? Are you kidding me? Appeal this shit Matt!

He already did according to the reports. A year long down to four games.

[MOtorboat]

I think it's a pretty BS stipulation that he isn't allowed to ever drink at all for the rest of his career because of one DUI. That seems really over the top.

Two DUIs.

[tomjonesrocks]

I think it's a pretty BS stipulation that he isn't allowed to ever drink at all for the rest of his career because of one DUI. That seems really over the top.

He has had two DUIs from one of the articles above. Which is pretty messed up considering he has lots of money available to call himself a ******* car, or get a room somewhere near his partying.

Overall I think 90 percent of people who drink are capable of getting a DUI. Maybe that's just because I'm in SoCal and a cab home or a room can be a couple hundred bucks and that's definitely something out of reach for many. TWO DUIs and it's not unfair to suggest alcoholism and maybe Prater should be giving up drinking once and for all as that's just crazy.

So now I don't know if this is because he's had 2 DUIs or not--which a career alcohol ban as a plea down sounds less insane to me.

[BroncoWave]

He has had two DUIs from one of the articles above. Which is pretty messed up considering he has lots of money available to call himself a ******* car, or get a room somewhere near his partying.

Overall I think 90 percent of people who drink are capable of getting a DUI. Maybe that's just because I'm in SoCal and a cab home or a room can be a couple hundred bucks and that's definitely something out of reach for many. TWO DUIs and it's not unfair to suggest alcoholism and maybe Prater should be giving up drinking once and for all as that's just crazy.

So now I don't know if this is because he's had 2 DUIs or not--which actually is less insane to me.

I still don't know if it's the NFL's place to tell him he can't have a drink ever.

[Dapper Dan]

I get that he has a history. If he got in trouble due to alcohol, I could see them suspending him for a year. But for simply drinking at all? They wanted a year and settled on 4 games. That seems insane. 25% of the season for drinking. Could you imagine a baseball player being suspended 40 games for drinking? Or 20 games in the NBA?

I'm halfway hoping he did something really stupid and we just don't know about it yet.

[Dapper Dan]

I still don't know if it's the NFL's place to tell him he can't have a drink ever.

And Michael Vick is allowed to own a dog.

[BroncoWave]

I get that he has a history. If he got in trouble due to alcohol, I could see them suspending him for a year. But for simply drinking at all? They wanted a year and settled on 4 games. That seems insane. 25% of the season for drinking. Could you imagine a baseball player being suspended 40 games for drinking? Or 20 games in the NBA?

I'm halfway hoping he did something really stupid and we just don't know about it yet.

Agreed. I think it's absolutely insane that they tried to go after him for a WHOLE YEAR suspension for having a few drinks on vacation. There just HAS to be more to the story than that.

[Dapper Dan]

The NFL should ban Ray Rice from being in a relationship with women while he's in the NFL.

[tomjonesrocks]

I still don't know if it's the NFL's place to tell him he can't have a drink ever.

I'm not sure either. I just think two DUIs is just much, much worse than one (and far more indicative of an actual addiction) so I'm a little softer on it reading that.

Let's face it though, a lot of us get ******* shit-canned at work if we get 2 DUIs while working for the company. He's actually lucky to still be able to work for the NFL.

[Valar Morghulis]

The NFL should ban Ray Rice from being in a relationship with women while he's in the NFL.

Lol

[Nomad]

alcohol can be in your system for a few days - detectable via a piss test.

he could have had 6er on a wednesday and got tested on a fri morning

I never realized a piss test could detect alcohol consumption this much time after the fact of drinking. Here's a website in how the test works.....
http://www.drugtestingnetwork.com/alcohol-testing.htm

[tomjonesrocks]

I never realized a piss test could detect alcohol consumption this much time after the fact of drinking. Here's a website in how the test works..... http://www.drugtestingnetwork.com/alcohol-testing.htm

I didn't either. I actually just took a drug test I didn't know I'd have to take a few weeks ago and while I wasn't drinking the night before the test or anything, I sure was the weekend before.

Guess my company may have known that (if they were testing for it). Crazy. On the result I got it just said "Green" though (for pass). Don't have a clue what they were looking for.

[spikerman]

The NFL should ban Ray Rice from being in a relationship with women while he's in the NFL.

Michael Sam is on board with this.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Prater was in stage three of the drug program

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...-ban/14523505/

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


Steinberg told Rapoport that the ban was part of an agreement reached between the league and Prater's camp after the NFL initially threatened a full-season punishment. "The NFL treated us fairly because we were looking at a year," said Steinberg, who revealed that Prater drank alcohol in his home during vacation, triggering a positive test.

full article - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000383065/article/broncos-matt-prater-will-be-suspended-four-games

Since Prater was in stage 3, if a violation occurs, it appears the result could be a full-season suspension. Based on that, four games is much better.

[GEM]

What an idiot. Stage 3 and still drinking. The broncos should make his continued employment dependent on going to a rehab program the next few weeks.

[Dzone]

What an idiot. Stage 3 and still drinking. The broncos should make his continued employment dependent on going to a rehab program the next few weeks.
But it was only a couple beers while on vacation. lol

[Dapper Dan]

But it was only a couple beers while on vacation. lol

The NFL should ban vacations.

[Tned]

Not sure if the question about signing a veteran was answered, but I think any vet on the opening day roster is guaranteed at least the veteran minimum, which I think varies by tenure (going by memory here).

They protect players from a team signing them for a few games due to injury or suspension.

Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Forum Runner

[Northman]

The NFL should ban vacations.

The NFL should just ban itself. All problems solved.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

There's a decent chance the Broncos' season-opening place-kicker is not yet on their roster.

They'll need to find one after Matt Prater, the league's top kicker last season, was notified by the NFL he will be suspended from the first four games of the season for violating the league's alcohol program.

Mitch Ewald, an undrafted rookie from Indiana, is Prater's backup, but the Broncos' daunting first-quarter schedule — Indianapolis, Kansas City, Seattle and Arizona combined for 45 wins last season — figures to send general manager John Elway searching for a kicker with NFL game experience.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26399662/broncos-probably-will-look-place-kicker-early-season

[slim]

I guess we are going to have to score touchdowns for a while.

[broncofaninfla]

Jay Feely just became available.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jay Feely just became available.


Lindsay Jones @bylindsayhjones · 1h

Broncos .... GO RT @AdamSchefter: Cardinals are releasing veteran K Jay Feely, per source.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Feely kicked for the Cardinals the past four seasons and made 85.2 percent of his field-goal attempts in that time. But he's 38 years old and coaches were disappointed in the height and depth of his kickoffs.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2014/08/25/arizona-cardinals-release-veteran-kicker-jay-feely/14569197/

[CrazyHorse]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2014/08/25/arizona-cardinals-release-veteran-kicker-jay-feely/14569197/

I'm sure kicking in Denver would help with that.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I'm sure kicking in Denver would help with that.

Probably so, for the home games

[Dapper Dan]

We need a kicker for 3 games, I think. Bye week is week 4. 2 home games and 1 game in Seattle.

[MOtorboat]

We need a kicker for 3 games, I think. Bye week is week 4. 2 home games and 1 game in Seattle.

Suspensions are games, not weeks.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 20m

Matt Prater stood up and apologized to team at 8 am meeting Monday. Then met with press.

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 24m

Attending Matt Prater's presser as sign of support: John Fox, Demaryius Thomas, P Britton Colquitt, LS Aaron Brewer.

Mike Klis @MikeKlis · 32m

Credit Matt Prater for facing music. Adressed media throng after 64-year FG last year. Answered questions after 4-game suspension. .

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Kicker Matt Prater confirmed reports that he will be suspended for four games to start the 2014 season.

video - http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Prater-Apologizes-Accepts-Responsibilty/cf78bc43-9d65-48fc-bdc9-2a930f843161

[sneakers]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2014/08/25/arizona-cardinals-release-veteran-kicker-jay-feely/14569197/

Yeah, but that thin denver air will help that old leg feel 28 instead of 38

[Joel]

Not sure if the question about signing a veteran was answered, but I think any vet on the opening day roster is guaranteed at least the veteran minimum, which I think varies by tenure (going by memory here).

They protect players from a team signing them for a few games due to injury or suspension.

Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Forum Runner
Unlike the guy we added for Millers suspension (anyone remember whom that was?) there's no chance he'll be a roleplayer who might beat out another player at a similar position or stick around for substitution/injury depth: He'll be a kicker who does NOTHING but the same two things Prater does admirably: Kick PATs (where Prater was 100% and broke the NFL record last year) and FGs (where Prater broke ANOTHER record last year and only missed ONCE—from 50 yds) plus kickoff (where Prater had a butt load of touchbacks, as MOST kickers do in Mile High.)

That may explain why we're looking at a rookie (though right now the only kicker the Cards have to replace Feely is also a rookie:) The cap hit would be <½ as much. But while I can understand turning down Håvard Rugland for a record setting vet like Akers, turning him down for a rookie making the same money to miss 35 yarders in Mile High makes far less sense. I'd rather pay $½ million for a rookie who hits 50 yarders than a rookie who misses 35 yarders, and PS him after the 4 game suspension ends (Prater already fell off the wagon twice.)

Prater can apologize all he wants, but the bottom line's still the bottom line: As draconian as NFL policy is, he knew the policy and chose to have those couple beers, and that means we lose a roster spot and $½-1 million of cap space—maybe more—finding someone to take his spot for just 4 games. A spot we're paying Prater $3 million more to fill.

[Valar Morghulis]

The replacements salary should be paid for by prater.

[Dapper Dan]

The replacements salary should be paid for by prater.

He could pay him in beers.

[Dapper Dan]

Suspensions are games, not weeks.

Even better, Feely's last game would be against Arizona.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The replacements salary should be paid for by prater.

I think that Prater will not receive any pay while he is suspended, so basically he will be paying for the replacements salary.

[Valar Morghulis]

I think that Prater will not receive any pay while he is suspended, so basically he will be paying for the replacements salary.

Yeah but surely it will still affect our salary cap.

It should be paid directly from praters savings. Lol.

[Joel]

I think that Prater will not receive any pay while he is suspended, so basically he will be paying for the replacements salary.
Not exactly, at least, not necessarily: $3 million/4=$750,000, so unless the replacement's been playing <7 years, Praters salary forfeiture will be less than that minimum salary. Also, does the money Prater forfeits get added back to our cap space? If not, it really doesn't matter; it might cost Bowlen less money, but we'd still get the full cap hit for the replacements full years salary, even though we'll almost certainly release him after the 4th game.

It REALLY sucks, because we're basically looking at paying a guy a years salary for 4 games, then releasing him to add a backup we may need, while that years salary is dead money the final 12 games and through the playoffs. It's not like we can keep a kicker around to fill in for someone else; once Prater's back, the replacement kicker will just be a waste of money and roster space.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- A contrite Matt Prater apologized for his four-game suspension for violating the league's substance abuse policy and vowed not "to drink as long as I'm in this program.''

The Denver Broncos kicker will miss the team's first four games of the season and because of the Broncos' Week 4 bye, will not be eligible for re-instatement until the Broncos Week 6 game against the New York Jets.

"I'm definitely going to make some changes in my life,'' Prater said following Monday's practice. "Not drink at all or risk doing anything stupid like that. Keep myself out of certain situations like not go to places where people are drinking. Now I'm going to dedicate myself to working out and getting stronger in the time I have off. I'll come in here and be here five days a week hitting the weights and I'll have to kick at a high school field.''

rest - http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11408847/matt-prater-denver-broncos-apologizes-suspension

[BroncoTech]

We really should have brought a decent kicker in to challenge Prater to begin with. This kicker situation has already cost us a win in a preseason game. I would make Colquitt the kicker, opening up the the holder position for Manning, then just fake all field goals and go for it. Shhh, don't tell anyone this is the plan.

[BroncoWave]

We really should have brought a decent kicker in to challenge Prater to begin with.

Why? There are plenty of good free agents out there. And teams like the Saints and Chiefs have pretty heated kicking battles going on right now which will release a few more decent kickers onto the market when cuts come around. It's not like a kicker needs to have had reps with us during the offseason. He just needs to come in and kick the ball.

[Joel]

I sent Håvard Rugland a friend request on FB: Done deal. :tongue:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 38m

As @landryfootball told us, it's tricky signing a veteran to fill-in for Prater. If signed before week one, he's due full season salary.

[Joel]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 38m

As @landryfootball told us, it's tricky signing a veteran to fill-in for Prater. If signed before week one, he's due full season salary.
The worst part is kickers play forever and can't do ANYTHING else, so a free agent ex-starter's a million dollar cap hit for a month of play: Manning money—without Manning value.

It's good news for Ewald but... he missed a 36 yarder in Mile High. What happens if we sign someone AFTER Opening Day? Can we survive the Colts with Ewald, then sign a vet for 3 games without hitting our cap for a full years salary? I know literally NOTHING about Ewald except that's he's a rookie and his NFL FGs consist of a hit from 22 and miss from 36.

[Ziggy]

Here's my vote for a fill in for Prater:


The Giants have entrusted that duty, for now, to veteran Josh Brown. Per a league source, rookie Brandon McManus will be waived.

Don’t be surprised if McManus also is claimed on waivers. Via the New York Times, McManus has made a 75-yard field goal in practice, and his kickoffs routinely exit the end zone with 10 yards to spare.

“I think McManus has got a real big upside once it all starts clicking for him,” special-team coordinator Tom Quinn told the Times.

After spending 2013 in training camp with the Colts, McManus gained confidence. While he still hasn’t won a kicking job, there’s a chance it’s only a matter of time.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/26/giants-pick-josh-brown-over-brandon-mcmanus-at-kicker/

He was more accurate every year in college, as well as averaging 45 yards per punt at Temple.

[Dapper Dan]

We really should have brought a decent kicker in to challenge Prater to begin with. This kicker situation has already cost us a win in a preseason game. I would make Colquitt the kicker, opening up the the holder position for Manning, then just fake all field goals and go for it. Shhh, don't tell anyone this is the plan.

It cost us a win? We could have left Manning in the game and won. It's only preseason.

[Joel]

Here's my vote for a fill in for Prater:


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/26/giants-pick-josh-brown-over-brandon-mcmanus-at-kicker/

He was more accurate every year in college, as well as averaging 45 yards per punt at Temple.
He sounds like a better (read: More affordable) option than a million-dollar 4-game placeholder placekicker. Assuming he was a LOT more accurate every year in college; 72.3% isn't great.

[GEM]

rest - http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11408847/matt-prater-denver-broncos-apologizes-suspension

I've made mistakes was the DUI, the subsequent violations afterward show a serious issue with alcohol, that needs to be treated.

[GEM]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 38m

As @landryfootball told us, it's tricky signing a veteran to fill-in for Prater. If signed before week one, he's due full season salary.

Keep Ewald for Wk 1, have veteran ready for sign immediately following. Then do what you can to keep Ewald off the field.

[BroncoWave]

If Cairo Santos doesn't win the kc job, I want us to get him. He won the groza award as a junior at Tulane, not missing a kick all season. He has pretty decent range as well. I think he'll probably beat succop for that job though.

[Valar Morghulis]

If Cairo Santos doesn't win the kc job, I want us to get him. He won the groza award as a junior at Tulane, not missing a kick all season. He has pretty decent range as well. I think he'll probably beat succop for that job though.

Is there no end to Carlos Santana's talents? I never knew he was changing careers.

[BroncoJoe]

Pretty sure we'll just stick with the kid already on the team. It's only four games, and if we're relying on FG's, we're not going anywhere anyway.

[Valar Morghulis]

Pretty sure we'll just stick with the kid already on the team. It's only four games, and if we're relying on FG's, we're not going anywhere anyway.

I don't know mate, those first 4 games could be close.

With our schedule this year - a few field goals could be the difference between the number 1 seed and a wild card berth

[BroncoWave]

Pretty sure we'll just stick with the kid already on the team. It's only four games, and if we're relying on FG's, we're not going anywhere anyway.

I wouldn't be that dismissive of the importance of fg kicking, especially as tough as our first four games are.

[BroncoJoe]

I wouldn't be that dismissive of the importance of fg kicking, especially as tough as our first four games are.

I've been known to be wrong - it's just not that often.

[Magnificent Seven]

I would like to see more actions from PK Ewald. Could he kick 50 + yards?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I would like to see more actions from PK Ewald. Could he kick 50 + yards?

I would assume he will do all of the kicking in Thursday's game

[Joel]

I don't know mate, those first 4 games could be close.

With our schedule this year - a few field goals could be the difference between the number 1 seed and a wild card berth
Yup. Much depends on whether KC's closer to their 2013 or 2012 record (I don't think either representative) and how far San Diego's come. But even ONE game can make a difference in byes and homefield; good as we were last year, that OT loss @NE would've put the AFCCG there if we'd lost any MORE games. I like playoff games against NE far more at home than on the road.


I wouldn't be that dismissive of the importance of fg kicking, especially as tough as our first four games are.
Also true. As Dave says, MOST of our games are tough this year; a Conference Champions schedule, plus the division rotation happens to be against the best of BOTH conferences. Last years A/NFCW produced both SB teams, 3/4 Conference Championship Game teams and 5/12 playoff teams, which would've been 6 if Arizona were in any other conference. Playing them and both NFCCG teams twice each, St. Louis STILL finished 7-9. We can likely plow Chokeland, Buffalo, Miami and the Jets, but the rest?

4 games vs. the NFCW, 2 on the road, including the SB Champs
4 games vs. AFCW playoff teams
3 games against NE, Cincy and Indy, all but the last on the road

Football's not baseball: EVERY game matters, even for the best teams. And none of our few easy marks are in the first 4 games.

[Joel]

I would like to see more actions from PK Ewald. Could he kick 50 + yards?
Sunday he couldn't even kick 36 yards, and that was in Mile High air. He's 1/2 in preseason, hitting from 22 (practically a PAT) and missing from 36. Doesn't inspire confidence, least of all for him.

[Ziggy]

He sounds like a better (read: More affordable) option than a million-dollar 4-game placeholder placekicker. Assuming he was a LOT more accurate every year in college; 72.3% isn't great.

He went from 70% his freshman year to 82% his senior year. He's a work in progress, but he has a cannon leg and he can back up the punter position as well.

[Joel]

He went from 70% his freshman year to 82% his senior year. He's a work in progress, but he has a cannon leg and he can back up the punter position as well.
Better, but still not great. It's the right approach though; we could develop him on the PS and see where he's at next year, but if we sign a vet literally on his last leg we'd almost HAVE to release him when Prater returns. And Prater's one drink away from being out a year (possibly forever) plus next yar's the last on his contract. I doubt we pay him another $3 mil/year regardless, but if we've got a second year guy who did well in 4 big early games this year, we could just move on entirely in a way Feely (for example) wouldn't allow.

With a rookie, we could PS him as long as he doesn't play >8 games—even PS him again NEXT year while Prater plays out his contract and his successor completes finishing school.

[OB]

Broncos trading a conditional 7th-round pick to NYG for K Brandon McManus, per source. Kicking insurance while Matt Prater is suspended. - Adam Schefter

[VonDoom]

Broncos trading a conditional 7th-round pick to NYG for K Brandon McManus, per source. Kicking insurance while Matt Prater is suspended. - Adam Schefter

I was just about to post this. I also saw today on IAOFM a link to an article that says he was kicking 75 yard FG's in practice. He's a rookie, and probably better than Ewald. Why not?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/26/giants-pick-josh-brown-over-brandon-mcmanus-at-kicker/

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) A contrite Matt Prater apologized to the Denver Broncos and their fans for violating the NFL’s substance abuse policy by drinking beer, resulting in a four-game ban to start the season.

Prater’s lawyer said the NFL initially sought a yearlong suspension after Prater tested positive for alcohol consumption while on vacation in the offseason.

Prater, the league’s top kicker, has been in the NFL’s drug program, which includes alcohol, since a DUI arrest on Aug. 12, 2011. He said he realized one more strike meant he’d face sitting out an entire season when he decided to have some beers “right after the season.”

“Why did I risk it?” Prater said. “I made a mistake. I don’t have an excuse for it. I screwed up and now I’m paying the price for it.”

rest - http://denver.cbslocal.com/2014/08/26/broncos-consider-options-knowing-prater-will-miss-4-games/

[GEM]

And Prater just shit his pants...

[GEM]

rest - http://denver.cbslocal.com/2014/08/26/broncos-consider-options-knowing-prater-will-miss-4-games/

Because alcoholics don't look at repercussions. I hope he gets some help for some longevity sobriety.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Broncos trading a conditional 7th-round pick to NYG for K Brandon McManus, per source. Kicking insurance while Matt Prater is suspended. - Adam Schefter

from article:


Although he lost the job in New York to veteran Josh Brown, McManus did knock in both a 46 and 47 yard attempt this preseason. That kind of range is consistent with what he showed at Temple during his four-year career.

As a senior at Temple, McManus converted 14-of-17 field goals and 32-of-33 extra point tries. He is also a strong punter, as he punted 54 times for 2,433 yards (45.1-yard avg.), including a career-long 68-yarder. The 6-foot-3, 201 pound kicker had 15 punts longer than 50 yards.

What most be most appealing about McManus is how he has performed on kickoffs. In four preseason games with the Giants, McManus has 10 touchbacks on 11 kickoffs, with an average of 64.8 yards.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2014/08/brandon_mcmanus_released_by_giants_will_eagles_swo op_in_on_former_temple_kicker.html

[BroncoJoe]

I've been known to be wrong - it's just not that often.


Broncos trading a conditional 7th-round pick to NYG for K Brandon McManus, per source. Kicking insurance while Matt Prater is suspended. - Adam Schefter

Well, there you go.

[Dapper Dan]

Who trades for a kicker?

I didn't think you could do that, per Madden.

[slim]

What are the conditions?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Giants were about to cut kicker Brandon McManus, but they ended up getting something for him instead.

The Broncos need a kicker while Matt Prater begins the season on a four-game suspension, so they acquired McManus in a trade with the Giants. A league source tells PFT the trade was agreed on today.

Presumably, the Broncos figured some team ahead of them in the waiver priority order would claim McManus, so they thought it was worth it to give something up to acquire him.

rest - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/26/broncos-acquire-kicker-brandon-mcmanus-in-trade-with-giants/

[Valar Morghulis]

Because alcoholics don't look at repercussions. I hope he gets some help for some longevity sobriety.

This.

You are so right mate, and i am glad you posted this. Because he is a sportsman and could cost the Broncos, i was not viewing his situation clearly. Addiction is an illness.

Great post.

[Italianmobstr7]

I'll take it. Ewald blows. Saw him in TC twice and in preseason. He has a weak leg (compared to Prater) and he's just really not that good. Hopefully this McManus kid is decent.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

What are the conditions?

from article:


The conditional pick means the Broncos might not surrender anything if McManus doesn't make the final 53-man roster which is set on Saturday. McManus fits the profile for what the Broncos were seeking, a young kicker with a big leg capable of handling kickoffs.

full article: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26409721/broncos-acquire-kicker-brandon-mcmanus-from-new-york

[GEM]

I like that he can kick and punt. I haven't been all that happy with Colquitt since mid last season. He whiffed one on Saturday night again.

I know it's unheard of in today's NFL, but if you could roll it all in with one guy...that's another roster spot for a more needed position.

[Valar Morghulis]

I actually cant believe kicker and punter is a separate profession

[slim]

Who trades for a kicker?

I didn't think you could do that, per Madden.

John ******* Elway.

[BroncoWave]

That punt by Colquitt was godawful. It would be awesome if this new guy could do both.

[VonDoom]

I like that he can kick and punt. I haven't been all that happy with Colquitt since mid last season. He whiffed one on Saturday night again.

I know it's unheard of in today's NFL, but if you could roll it all in with one guy...that's another roster spot for a more needed position.


That punt by Colquitt was godawful. It would be awesome if this new guy could do both.

This was my first thought as well, after looking at that article. We ditch our kicker and punter and use this rookie to do it all. Genius! :D

[VonDoom]

Also, we waived Ewald in order to make room for McManus, in case anyone cares.

[CrazyHorse]

Bye bye Briton Colquitt?

[BroncoWave]

Here's my vote for a fill in for Prater:


The Giants have entrusted that duty, for now, to veteran Josh Brown. Per a league source, rookie Brandon McManus will be waived.

Don’t be surprised if McManus also is claimed on waivers. Via the New York Times, McManus has made a 75-yard field goal in practice, and his kickoffs routinely exit the end zone with 10 yards to spare.

“I think McManus has got a real big upside once it all starts clicking for him,” special-team coordinator Tom Quinn told the Times.

After spending 2013 in training camp with the Colts, McManus gained confidence. While he still hasn’t won a kicking job, there’s a chance it’s only a matter of time.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/26/giants-pick-josh-brown-over-brandon-mcmanus-at-kicker/

He was more accurate every year in college, as well as averaging 45 yards per punt at Temple.

Good call ziggy! You win the prize!

[Joel]

I actually cant believe kicker and punter is a separate profession
Punters must field snaps, and don't necessarily need much accuracy, just great power. Kickers get holders (tees on kickoffs) and can get away with less power as long as their accuracy's great.

Even on kickoffs, kickers must be accurate enough to keep it in bounds (IIRC, Dallas won a game they should've lost a few years ago because the Giants kicked off out of bounds after what should've been a game-winning score, giving the Cowboys great starting position at their 40, making for the fact there was only ½ a minute left.) Merging them might make sense if there were still more than a handful of guys who could make coffin corner punts, but most modern punters seem to be all power, not caring if/when it goes out of bounds as long as it's waaaay downfield.

Another casualty of the "throw Hail Maries and pray for a defensive penalty" rules created to boost ratings at the expense of football; field position's increasingly irrelevant.

[Valar Morghulis]

Punters must field snaps, and don't necessarily need much accuracy, just great power. Kickers get holders (tees on kickoffs) and can get away with less power as long as their accuracy's great.

Even on kickoffs, kickers must be accurate enough to keep it in bounds (IIRC, Dallas won a game they should've lost a few years ago because the Giants kicked off out of bounds after what should've been a game-winning score, giving the Cowboys great starting position at their 40, making for the fact there was only ½ a minute left.) Merging them might make sense if there were still more than a handful of guys who could make coffin corner punts, but most modern punters seem to be all power, not caring if/when it goes out of bounds as long as it's waaaay downfield.

Another casualty of the "throw Hail Maries and pray for a defensive penalty" rules created to boost ratings at the expense of football; field position's increasingly irrelevant.

Nah mate - i am not having that.

It is like saying a QB can only throw lasers or goal line fades.

If they were trained to be both from a young age - there would be no problem, i just think it is a waste of a roster spot for a dude to do very little, i always have.

[Joel]

Also, we waived Ewald in order to make room for McManus, in case anyone cares.
Fine by me; I'd still rather have Kickalicious (especially if the NFL let teams USE the Interational PS spot that's still in the rulebook yet somehow no longer allowed; then we wouldn't even lose a roster spot) but McManus sounds infinitely better than Ewald.


It's unlikely the Broncos will ever give up the draft pick because the condition is McManus must continue to be the team's kicker after Prater's suspension.
Is there any confirmation they only get the 7th if he's our STARTING kicker, or at least on the 53? That is, could we PS him and save the pick? Not that I'm TOO worried about what I hope will be Mr. Irrelevant, but the same "half a loaf is better than none" principle that makes this a good deal for NY makes me want the trade conditions unmet. As long as that doesn't mean McManus is so awful he costs a game or two, of course.

I know it sounds unlikely we'd PS a backup kicker, but since Prater's had two DUIs and STILL pissed dirty, faces a full year suspension if it EVER happens again and hits the end of a $3 million/year contract next season, I wouldn't mind some insurance. There's no guarantee this problem goes away after 4 games; if Prater IS an alcoholic, it's one day at a time the rest of his life, and that's the way the rest of his NFL career will go regardless.

[GEM]

Punters must field snaps, and don't necessarily need much accuracy, just great power. Kickers get holders (tees on kickoffs) and can get away with less power as long as their accuracy's great.

Even on kickoffs, kickers must be accurate enough to keep it in bounds (IIRC, Dallas won a game they should've lost a few years ago because the Giants kicked off out of bounds after what should've been a game-winning score, giving the Cowboys great starting position at their 40, making for the fact there was only ½ a minute left.) Merging them might make sense if there were still more than a handful of guys who could make coffin corner punts, but most modern punters seem to be all power, not caring if/when it goes out of bounds as long as it's waaaay downfield.

Another casualty of the "throw Hail Maries and pray for a defensive penalty" rules created to boost ratings at the expense of football; field position's increasingly irrelevant.

Most punters can't make coffin kicks.

If we can get a guy who can do both fairly well in one, it's worth a look.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- The Broncos have traded a conditional seventh-round pick to the Giants for kicker Brandon McManus and waived kicker Mitch Ewald, the team announced Tuesday.

In seven career preseason games, McManus is 3-for-3 on field goals (with all kicks from 46 yards or farther), 4-for-4 on extra points and has 18 touchbacks on 25 kickoffs. Two of his extra points came from the 33-yard line that the NFL experimented with for the first two weeks of the preseason.

To make room for McManus on the roster, the team waived Ewald. Ewald was 1-for-2 on field goals this preseason, missing from 36 yards against the Texans on Saturday, and 5-for-5 on extra points, with two touchbacks on eight kickoffs.

McManus, a first-year kicker from Temple, signed with the Colts as an undrafted free agent in April of 2013 but was waived in late August. He signed a reserve/future contract with the Giants after the 2013 season ended.

He received the 2012 College Football Performance Awards Specialist Trophy as the nation's best overall kicker his senior year. He also served as the team's punter, with a 45.4-yard average on 54 punts as a senior.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Broncos-trade-for-K-McManus-waive-Ewald/beb50354-473c-4816-9e55-32d21e9d6bd3

[Joel]

Prater missed two of four field goal attempts this preseason, including a 49-yarder in an 18-17 loss to Houston on Saturday night after learning before kickoff that he’d be suspended. He was good from 32 yards to open the scoring but the football sailed haphazardly through the uprights because he kicked the ground.
Now, on the one hand, if they only told him the suspension was confirmed right before kickoff, his mind might've been elsewhere and that could explain the poor kicking. Yet on the OTHER hand, this isn't the first time Prater kicked the ground before the ball in a game: The same thing happened on a 50 yarder with <1:00 in the first half against Baltimore in the playoffs two years ago, and the miss gave the Ravens great field position they used to drive the field for a TD; instead of a 10 pt halftime lead, we had a halftime tie.

That miss and ensuing 30 second TD drive turned out to be huge: It preserved Baltimores season so they won a SB, while we left the playoffs WINLESS in our best SB shot since Elway retired.

[Ravage!!!]

Now, on the one hand, if they only told him the suspension was confirmed right before kickoff, his mind might've been elsewhere and that could explain the poor kicking. Yet on the OTHER hand, this isn't the first time Prater kicked the ground before the ball in a game: The same thing happened on a 50 yarder with <1:00 in the first half against Baltimore in the playoffs two years ago, and the miss gave the Ravens great field position they used to drive the field for a TD; instead of a 10 pt halftime lead, we had a halftime tie.

That miss and ensuing 30 second TD drive turned out to be huge: It preserved Baltimores season so they won a SB, while we left the playoffs WINLESS in our best SB shot since Elway retired.

and?

[Joel]

Most punters can't make coffin kicks.

If we can get a guy who can do both fairly well in one, it's worth a look.
Most punters USED to be at least somewhat able, but then again forward passes used to be illegal; the price of progress.

It's worth exploring though, because if coffin kicks are obsolete, the sole question for punters is "how far can you kick?" and all accounts of McManus agree his answer is "farther than you'll ever need." The sole uncertainy is whether his accuracy's improved enough to be a pro placekicker, but he's strong enough to be a pro punter regardless; if he has the accuracy, he can do both.

[BroncoWave]

Now, on the one hand, if they only told him the suspension was confirmed right before kickoff, his mind might've been elsewhere and that could explain the poor kicking. Yet on the OTHER hand, this isn't the first time Prater kicked the ground before the ball in a game: The same thing happened on a 50 yarder with <1:00 in the first half against Baltimore in the playoffs two years ago, and the miss gave the Ravens great field position they used to drive the field for a TD; instead of a 10 pt halftime lead, we had a halftime tie.

That miss and ensuing 30 second TD drive turned out to be huge: It preserved Baltimores season so they won a SB, while we left the playoffs WINLESS in our best SB shot since Elway retired.

and?

It's apparently Prater's fault we didn't win the super bowl that season. :lol:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


It's unlikely the Broncos will give up the draft pick because the condition is McManus must continue to be the team's kicker after Prater's suspension ends.

Prater was the best kicker in the NFL last season and the Broncos plan on having his job waiting for him when his suspension is lifted. Although the Broncos will continue to monitor other kickers who might become available after teams cut their rosters to 53 players Saturday, team officials have liked McManus since he kicked a 50-yard field goal in a preseason game for Indianapolis last year.

full article - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26409721/broncos-acquire-kicker-brandon-mcmanus-from-new-york

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi · 47m

RT @Jasonizzle19: what does that mean for prater? Cut him out? ------ no, no, no. Just a temp. Unless, of course, he lights it up.

[Valar Morghulis]

It's apparently Prater's fault we didn't win the super bowl that season. :lol:

I don't agree with that - but he was right about one thing, that season was our best chance to win the SB since 98. A collection of errors lost us that game, manning interception, foxes conservatism, hillmans running, "that" blown coverage -and if it was not for Holiday we would not even have been in the game.

[Joel]

and?
And starting pro kickers shouldn't cost the team games—let alone PLAYOFF games that cost the team CHAMPIONSHIPS—because they kicked the GROUND before the ball. When it happened two years ago, I couldn't recall the last time I'd seen an NFL kicker do that; now Prater's done it again, and it's cost us another game. A meaningless one, but next time it might matter—a LOT.

Most people seem to have made Moore the goat of that aborted Super Bowl season, but there was plenty of blame to go 'round (e.g. Hillmans failure to get two first downs on our final regulation drive, and the lines failure to open holes so he could.) Prevent D that failed to prevent ANYTHING for even half a minute at the end of BOTH halves are a big part of it, too, but we wouldn't have NEEDED to prevent TDs had Hillman done his job at the end of the second half—OR Prater done his at the end of the first.

[Joel]

from article:

full article - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26409721/broncos-acquire-kicker-brandon-mcmanus-from-new-york
Right, but does he have to be THE kicker, or just A kicker? Prater gets his job back the second the suspension ends; that's a given: Teams don't cut guys who just set NFL records for most PATs and longest FG, only missing ONCE (from 50 yds) all season. Especially not when they still lose $1.5 million of cap space and a rookie takes his place. But since McManus IS a rookie (because he wasn't on an Opening Day roster last year) we could PS him when Prater's back, and through the end of Praters contract next year—would that still cost us a 7th?

[Dapper Dan]

If kicking and punting weren't that different, the position would be the same. The thing is, they're different for a reason. I'll trust the experts on this one.

[Valar Morghulis]

If kicking and punting weren't that different, the position would be the same. The thing is, they're different for a reason. I'll trust the experts on this one.

I think this is nothing to do with talent and everything to do with letting the fat kid play in the olden days "what can he do" - "nothing, he is fat and crap" - "maybe we should let him punt" and so a new role was created and it has been that way every since.

[GEM]

Most punters USED to be at least somewhat able, but then again forward passes used to be illegal; the price of progress.

It's worth exploring though, because if coffin kicks are obsolete, the sole question for punters is "how far can you kick?" and all accounts of McManus agree his answer is "farther than you'll ever need." The sole uncertainy is whether his accuracy's improved enough to be a pro placekicker, but he's strong enough to be a pro punter regardless; if he has the accuracy, he can do both.

For some reason they don't see the value of it anymore, not sure why. I think it's a lost art form that could be very valuable against some of the punt returners in this league. The kid is nailing 75 yarders in NY, add in altitude and that could do wonders for him. I'm excited to see if for nothing else than an insurance policy if Prater wants to continue on unchecked.

[BCJ]

I don't think you can PS McManus as he played on the squad. I wouldn't put a guarantee by a kicker getting the most PATs (big deal as it is a chip shot and that record should go to the offense for scoring TDs) and longest field goal (luckily he is accurate from there). Sure he has been clutch two of the last three seasons but his behavior might set this one up. If we cut McManus, we don't lose the 7th round pick. I am worried about Prater. He looks way out of shape.5414

[OB]

I don't think you can PS McManus as he played on the squad. I wouldn't put a guarantee by a kicker getting the most PATs (big deal as it is a chip shot and that record should go to the offense for scoring TDs) and longest field goal (luckily he is accurate from there). Sure he has been clutch two of the last three seasons but his behavior might set this one up. If we cut McManus, we don't lose the 7th round pick. I am worried about Prater. He looks way out of shape.5414

I heard he put on a few pounds but dammmnnnnn :lol:

[slim]

He looks skinny to me.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The NFL did wrong by Broncos kicker Matt Prater.

If Prater has an alcohol problem, get him help.

But, if no crime has been committed by Prater in recent memory, what purpose does it serve to hold him up to the public ridicule of a four-game suspension? Prater is a 30-year-old man, with a golden leg and human flaws. He's not a Cub Scout. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is not his dad, yet the league is treating Prater as a child.

Yes, Prater has been monitored by the league's substance-abuse program since shortly after he was charged with driving under the influence more in August 2011. We all respectfully agree: Never drink and drive.

When the NFL monitors alcohol consumption by a player, and punishes him for an act in which nobody else was hurt, it seems as if Big Brother might be lurking in the corner of the collective bargaining agreement.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_26411885/kiszla-nfl-falls-short-matt-prater-ban

[BroncoWave]

Could not agree more. Alcohol is a legal substance and he was drinking it completely on his own time, and not driving. The fact that they tried to go after him for a whole season is shameful.

[tomjonesrocks]

I've made mistakes was the DUI, the subsequent violations afterward show a serious issue with alcohol, that needs to be treated.

I'm really hesitant to get on my high horse over the DUI as frankly I've committed that crime myself and was lucky not to get caught--but agree with this. TWO DUIs is really insane and inexcusable especially considering Prater's wealth. That screams addiction.

[Dapper Dan]

I think this is nothing to do with talent and everything to do with letting the fat kid play in the olden days "what can he do" - "nothing, he is fat and crap" - "maybe we should let him punt" and so a new role was created and it has been that way every since.

You need to stop talking shit and start trying to keep our punter from Tennessee, you tard.

[tomjonesrocks]

What's not like about JFE? We will see how this works out, but it sure seems like an aggressive, shrewd FO move. I'd think signing some retired NFL kicker for a few weeks would be the play -- but nope -- Elway's working deals and signing young talent...

Guess Holliday won't be back--notice he wasn't thrown in :lol:

[Nomad]

Could not agree more. Alcohol is a legal substance and he was drinking it completely on his own time, and not driving. The fact that they tried to go after him for a whole season is shameful.

Also, the fact that the NFL has no problem promoting beer by letting them run their commercials. Sure, it's revenue. Perhaps they can run AA & alcohol rehab commercials after the beer commercials.:lol:

[pnbronco]

Could not agree more. Alcohol is a legal substance and he was drinking it completely on his own time, and not driving. The fact that they tried to go after him for a whole season is shameful.

If Prater does have a problem with alcohol then I really hope this wakes him up to realize that what was fun and games is now having a adverse affect on his life and his team mates. However hubby listened to Alfred talk yesterday about this issue. Big Al said that if you are busted for alcohol, then you can not drink anything for whatever time the Grand Poobah says. He also said that they love to try to "catch" them, as in testing one day and then coming back the next morning.

IMO this trying to "catch" the boys being bad is more about ego, esp given how much money they take from the beer companies and all the different bars with hard alcohol at the games....you can even get a shot in your lemonade now.... That' s just being big old hypocrites. Oh lets not forget that you can hit your girlfriend, drag her, drop her see the vidoe but hey it was only a 2 game bad boy offense.....:rolleyes:

[Valar Morghulis]

You need to stop talking shit and start trying to keep our punter from Tennessee, you tard.

I know my opinion is valued in football circles world wide but exactly how will I be able to influence our punter or Tennessee.

I fear that is outside even my sphere of influence - which frees me up to continue chatting shit.

Fuktard.

[Dapper Dan]

I know my opinion is valued in football circles world wide but exactly how will I be able to influence our punter or Tennessee.

I fear that is outside even my sphere of influence - which frees me up to continue chatting shit.

Fuktard.

Dammit, Dave. Britton ******* Colquitt, or BFC as I call him , went to Tennessee. The Colquitt name has Tennessee tradition all over it.

[Valar Morghulis]

Dammit, Dave. Britton ******* Colquitt, or BFC as I call him , went to Tennessee. The Colquitt name has Tennessee tradition all over it.


Ahhhh, now i understand what you mean.

[Dapper Dan]

Ahhhh, now i understand what you mean.

You don't understand American?

[Valar Morghulis]

You don't understand American?

What you wrote makes sense, I am just used to your drunken ramblings - the coherent nature of your statement fooled me.

Having only been a vols fan for a few weeks, I am not yet down with their alumni. So I thought you were implying the titans were trading for colquitt.

I am happy to accept that in this situation I am the retard.

[Ziggy]

What's not like about JFE? We will see how this works out, but it sure seems like an aggressive, shrewd FO move. I'd think signing some retired NFL kicker for a few weeks would be the play -- but nope -- Elway's working deals and signing young talent...

Guess Holliday won't be back--notice he wasn't thrown in :lol:

Listening to Elway's interview on KOA, it doesn't seem like there is any guarantee that Prater will be back permanently. He said that they will take a supportive role with him over the next 4 weeks, and then evaluate where he's at after, and go from there. If the young kicker plays well, he could have the position long term.

http://www.850koa.com/onair/denver-broncos-52452/john-elway-and-peyton-manning-talk-with-dave-and-susie-12708628/

[blamkin86]

Could not agree more. Alcohol is a legal substance and he was drinking it completely on his own time, and not driving. The fact that they tried to go after him for a whole season is shameful.

Look I don't have a higher horse than anyone else.

However, you're twisting the facts around here. He was not on his own time. He was in a substance abuse program and blew it. Nothing less.

[Ziggy]

Prater knew that one drink would be a violation of the substance abuse program that he agreed to. He still drank. Then he said he wouldn't drink any more WHILE HE WAS IN THE PROGRAM. Millions of dollars on the line and he still can't stop drinking. Sad.

[GEM]

When directly asked....did you know you could be suspended for a year when you drank, he answered yes.

Whether it's a legal substance or not, there are rules. If you choose to not follow the rules, you hurt yourself and your team. He knowingly made that choice. If he doesn't get some help, it's something that will stick with him his entire career. As of the 3rd violation, he is in the program for the duration of his career and his choices could negatively effect the Broncos for the rest of that time.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The DUI Prater received in 2011 was his second while being with the Broncos:

from article:


That was Prater's second DUI while with the Broncos. According to records from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement obtained by USA TODAY Sports, Prater was charged with DUI in Orlando January 2008, about a month after he was signed by the Broncos. Court records show Prater pleaded no contest to that charge and was sentenced to one year probation, 50 hours of community service and had his license suspended for six months. Prater completed probation in 2009, and was not in the NFL's drug program at the time of his arrest in 2011, Steinberg said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/08/24/report-broncos-k-matt-prater-faces-4-game-ban/14523505/

Also the 2011 was not just a DUI, but he also left the scene of the accident. If Elway's patience are running thin with him, I can see why

[Joel]

Nah mate - i am not having that.

It is like saying a QB can only throw lasers or goal line fades.

If they were trained to be both from a young age - there would be no problem, i just think it is a waste of a roster spot for a dude to do very little, i always have.
Yes and no; it's because football's so specialized. In fact, it's the only sport I know of in the US (or anywhere) that guys who can't play either defense or offense can keep the top jobs because they play the other one so well. Even baseball only has designated hitter for pitchers, and only in the AL; NL pitchers and everyone else must bat AND field.

Not football. Is USED to be that way; until the '40s, the rule was anyone who went out must STAY out the rest of the quarter. But WW II conscripted the prime physical specimens who did everything well, and the 4F guys left could only do a few things well: So the league let teams swap them out as often as needed. That ended when the war ended, but worked so well the NFL brought it back just a couple years later, and it's been like that ever since. Now we have WRs who can't tackle, DBs who can't catch and "backs" who can't do anything but pass.

It also means weak-legged kickers and inaccurate punters. Understand, "weak" and "inaccurate" are relative terms here; the scrub NFL placekicker with the weakest leg could still outdrive me on my best day, and the most scattershot punter is more accurate. But being "pretty good" didn't give the NFLPA leverage to demand even rookie benchwarmers get $420,000/year: They do it for a living—and quite a good one—because a valuable elite skill commands elite value even if unaccompanied by any others.

So teams don't cut a Prater just because he can't drive a ball 70 yds through the air or make a tackle, or cut a Ray Guy because he can't keep kicks between sidelines separated by 53+'. Find a guy who placekicks AND punts with elite range and accuracy and any team would be glad to have him do both—but who does BOTH at elite levels? Sure, they've been kicking since they were kids, but every individual has individual weaknesses to go with their individual strengths.

Like our new sub kicker who can drive a ball 75 yds through the air, but gets them between the uprights "only" 83% of the time, which would be great for you or me, but not the NFL.


I think this is nothing to do with talent and everything to do with letting the fat kid play in the olden days "what can he do" - "nothing, he is fat and crap" - "maybe we should let him punt" and so a new role was created and it has been that way every since.
No, in the good old days the QB would do it—then go play DB till his team got it back again. That's how Sammy Baugh set the record for TDs thrown in a game AND Ints caught.

[Joel]

For some reason they don't see the value of it anymore, not sure why. I think it's a lost art form that could be very valuable against some of the punt returners in this league. The kid is nailing 75 yarders in NY, add in altitude and that could do wonders for him. I'm excited to see if for nothing else than an insurance policy if Prater wants to continue on unchecked.


Also, the fact that the NFL has no problem promoting beer by letting them run their commercials. Sure, it's revenue. Perhaps they can run AA & alcohol rehab commercials after the beer commercials.:lol:
These two comments go together; hopefully it's clear why. TD bombs sell tickets, jerseys and TV contracts; coffin corner kicks merey win football games.

[Dzone]

2 DUIs since becoming a Bronco with the 2nd DUI involving leaving the scene? Prater does not learn from his mistakes. Whatever it takes,this guy needs to be stopped before he kills someone.

[Dapper Dan]

2 DUIs since becoming a Bronco with the 2nd DUI involving leaving the scene? Prater does not learn from his mistakes. Whatever it takes,this guy needs to be stopped before he kills someone.

A four game suspension.

[Dzone]

A four game suspension.
Slap on the wrist. This is not enough to stop someone as out of control as Prater.

[Dapper Dan]

Slap on the wrist. This is not enough to stop someone as out of control as Prater.

Are you saying he should have gotten a 5 game suspension?

[Valar Morghulis]

Addicts have an illness - they should be treated that way - NOT criminalised or vilified.

There is also a difference between punishment and discipline - only one changes behaviour

[Dapper Dan]

Addicts have an illness - they should be treated that way - NOT criminalised or vilified.

There is also a difference between punishment and discipline - only one changes behaviour

We could cut his hands off. But then he could still drink with a straw.

[Dzone]

Addicts have an illness - they should be treated that way - NOT criminalised or vilified.

There is also a difference between punishment and discipline - only one changes behaviour
Thats all well and good, but we have seen too many innocent people killed by people on their 3rd or 4th dui. It often takes killing someone to get them to finally stop. People with multiple duis are CRIMINALS and should NOT be coddled as you suggest

[slim]

Cancer is an illness.

[Joel]

I don't think you can PS McManus as he played on the squad.
Doesn't matter unless he's been on it TWO seasons; even then he has a year left if 1) he wasn't on a 53 >½ a season and 2) we always keep 53. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_team


I wouldn't put a guarantee by a kicker getting the most PATs (big deal as it is a chip shot and that record should go to the offense for scoring TDs) and longest field goal (luckily he is accurate from there).
Sure, my wife can hit 20 yd FGs—but I doubt she could do it 75 times, never missing ONCE. Even the best miss even the easiest kicks sometimes; sadly for kickers, PATs are so common and misses so rare they make kickers look like bums, and stick in peoples memories. In 1910, it was an EXTRA point; now it's just a bad luck PENALTY, but that's a whole other rant.

Praters accuracy from 64 isn't LUCK though, it's inborn talent honed by years of practiced skill.


Sure he has been clutch two of the last three seasons but his behavior might set this one up. If we cut McManus, we don't lose the 7th round pick. I am worried about Prater. He looks way out of shape.
It sounds like we don't lose the 7th if we PS McManus either, and we'd have him if Prater fell off the wagon again. In fact, all I've seen on McManus says we could PS him NEXT year, too, as long as we always kept 53 on the main roster; Prater could finish his contract and compete with McManus for a new one in 2016. And we wouldn't have to worry about our kicker in the mean time.

[Valar Morghulis]

Thats all well and good, but we have seen too many innocent people killed by people on their 3rd or 4th dui. It often takes killing someone to get them to finally stop. People with multiple duis are CRIMINALS and should NOT be coddled as you suggest

I am not suggesting coddling them at all - i think his suspension is justifed - i also think he needs to enter into a program - if he does not, i think his suspension should be increased.

I dont agree with a character assassination or glib statements like "he knew what he was doing - so he deserves what he gets" - his actions are a symptom.

Thats the differnece between punishement and discipline - one makes you feel like crap, the other helps you change.

Its not about coddling him - its about helping him change - in turn avoiding further criminal acts

[Dapper Dan]

Thats all well and good, but we have seen too many innocent people killed by people on their 3rd or 4th dui. It often takes killing someone to get them to finally stop. People with multiple duis are CRIMINALS and should NOT be coddled as you suggest

So will he always be a criminal? When can he shed the label?

[Dapper Dan]

Cancer is an illness.

A 6 game suspension would take care of that.

[blamkin86]

Addicts have an illness - they should be treated that way - NOT criminalised or vilified.

...Until they become criminals, which Prater is. Two convictions for DUI. He "criminalised" himself.

Stop blaming other people for Matt's mistakes. He is a criminal because he broke the law. He broke the law because he cared more about driving around drunk than the safety of other people on the road.

Just because you don't care for the law doesn't mean you're going to go free when you break it.

[Valar Morghulis]

...Until they become criminals, which Prater is. Two convictions for DUI. He "criminalised" himself.

Stop blaming other people for Matt's mistakes. He is a criminal because he broke the law. He broke the law because he cared more about driving around drunk than the safety of other people on the road.

Just because you don't care for the law doesn't mean you're going to go free when you break it.

Not what i was doing - at all.

Nice compassion though. You must be a saint.

[Dapper Dan]

Lol. He's being called a criminal because he drank at home. No one said anything after his second DUI. People are only mad now because it hurts the teams.

[blamkin86]

So will he always be a criminal? When can he shed the label?

Reading some of your other posts, you're obviously kidding about some of this - but really, if you're worried about being labelled a criminal, maybe, just maybe, don't break the law?

[Dapper Dan]

Reading some of your other posts, you're obviously kidding about some of this - but really, if you're worried about being labelled a criminal, maybe, just maybe, don't break the law?

If you break the law once, are you labeled a criminal for life?

[slim]

If you break the law once, are you labeled a criminal for life?

Yes, but only if you are wearing a pink helmet.

[blamkin86]

Not what i was doing - at all.

Nice compassion though. You must be a saint.

I have no compassion for drunk driving. There's no excuse for it.

I've made my mistakes and live with them. I don't care if the broncos lose Matt to another team.

If you read my original post on this subject, someone somewhere said that Matt was drinking at home and that this suspension is "shameful."

I think that is beyond ridiculous. Where Matt was when he was drinking is irrelevant. He was on a substance abuse program and screwed up. He got busted, and now has to pay the price.

I'm not sure what you would have be different. Do you think he should be let out of the agreement he made not to drink?

[blamkin86]

If you break the law once, are you labeled a criminal for life?

I know what I think - What do you think?

[Valar Morghulis]

I have no compassion for drunk driving. There's no excuse for it.

I've made my mistakes and live with them. I don't care if the broncos lose Matt to another team.

If you read my original post on this subject, someone somewhere said that Matt was drinking at home and that this suspension is "shameful."

I think that is beyond ridiculous. Where Matt was when he was drinking is irrelevant. He was on a substance abuse program and screwed up. He got busted, and now has to pay the price.

I'm not sure what you would have be different. Do you think he should be let out of the agreement he made not to drink?

He was not drink driving this time though was he?

You seem to be under the impression addicts have control. They don't.

I have already said I agree with the suspension.

[blamkin86]

He was not drink driving this time though was he?

Right, we're talking about whether he violated the terms of his substance abuse program - which we both agree we did.

We're talking about whether the suspension is "shameful." I think that's ridiculous.

[Joel]

It boils down to the same old thing: A person who "can quit any time they want" WILL if their job and freedom is on the line; if they don't, they can't quit any time they want.

Pretty sure that's why the NFL imposes a career-abstinence policy for people whose drinking problem creates legal problems. When an alcoholic "goes back out," it may start with just a beer or two in their living room, but EVENTUALLY—even if it's weeks or perhaps months later—it ends right where they left off last time. Inability to drink in moderation is almost the definition of an alcoholic. None of that's to say PRATER'S one; I'm not his shrink, confessor, guru nor sponsor. But if he can't stop even NOW, it'll probably end his career, which would strongly suggest addiction.

[Valar Morghulis]

Right, we're talking about whether he violated the terms of his substance abuse program - which we both agree we did.

We're talking about whether the suspension is "shameful." I think that's ridiculous.

The suspension is appropriate. He broke the terms of his agreement.

But no criminal act was committed. That's my point.

The dui is history. The continued alcohol abuse is current - that's the issue. That's what needs addressed and addressed in a helpful way, not a punitive one, because the suspension takes care of that.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Lol. He's being called a criminal because he drank at home. No one said anything after his second DUI. People are only mad now because it hurts the teams.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/272510-Oh-Crap!-Denver-Broncos-kicker-Matt-Prater-arrested-for-DUI?highlight=matt+prater

[blamkin86]

Right, I get and got your point from the very start. Compassion is powerful, but I'm not sure it's always the answer. Maybe we disagree there.

My point was, and still is: don't twist around the facts. He violated the terms of his agreement. That he was chill'n at home, and wasn't out driving drunk, is entirely irrelevant.

[slim]

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/272510-Oh-Crap!-Denver-Broncos-kicker-Matt-Prater-arrested-for-DUI?highlight=matt+prater

Man, Chaz was almost inconsolable.

[turftoad]

Maybe he kicks better with a few beers under his belt !!

Heck, I golf better with about a 4 beer buzz.

[Valar Morghulis]

Right, I get and got your point from the very start. Compassion is powerful, but I'm not sure it's always the answer. Maybe we disagree there.

My point was, and still is: don't twist around the facts. He violated the terms of his agreement. That he was chill'n at home, and wasn't out driving drunk, is entirely irrelevant.

So what do you think should happen to him?

[Dzone]

So will he always be a criminal? When can he shed the label?
Multiple DUIs makes one a criminal. They should carry the label for life, just like any other criminal. Recently here in Colorado, 4 teenage girls were "murdered" by a guy in a ram truck going 100 mph, on his 3rd DUI. He should be spending the rest of his life behind bars, not entered into a treatment program. Unfortunately , many people think he should be coddled and rehabbed back into society

[Dapper Dan]

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/272510-Oh-Crap!-Denver-Broncos-kicker-Matt-Prater-arrested-for-DUI?highlight=matt+prater

Yep. I remember all of that. Someone at a game had a sign that read "No KUI - Kicking Under Influence".

After all that, all was forgiven because he played well. No one suggested cutting him after the 64 yarder.

[Dapper Dan]

Multiple DUIs makes one a criminal. They should carry the label for life, just like any other criminal. Recently here in Colorado, 4 teenage girls were "murdered" by a guy in a ram truck going 100 mph, on his 3rd DUI. He should be spending the rest of his life behind bars, not entered into a treatment program. Unfortunately , many people think he should be coddled and rehabbed back into society

That's YOUR money that would be giving him food, clothing, and shelter for the rest of his life. Is it better to do that or try and change someone?