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View Full Version : Adam Gase a no-brainer choice for head coach in 2015



tripp
08-21-2014, 03:24 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24671695/broncos-oc-adam-gase-will-be-a-no-brainer-choice-for-head-coach-somewhere


Oddly enough I was thinking about this the other day.

I knew he was wanted desperately in Cleveland, but he made the right decision staying in Denver. I think he is as good as gone by the end of this upcoming season.

My question to you guys: Would you rather John Fox or Adam Gase be head coach of the Denver Broncos in 2015?

Ravage!!!
08-21-2014, 04:36 PM
John Fox has done a FANTASTIC job while in Denver....even leading a Tim Tebow led team to a playoff victory. Taking the last two teams to the AFC Championship, and SUper Bowl. To me, you don't simply replace someone that has shown to be a good coach, with great results, simply for a "new face" and hopes.

Valar Morghulis
08-21-2014, 04:39 PM
Depends who the QB is in 2015, if it is PFM i will take Gase as it will give him at least another year with the legend which means one side of the ball he wont need to worry too much about in his first HC role.

If PFM retires, i would stick with Fox, even if that means losing Gase to another team.

BroncoWave
08-21-2014, 05:12 PM
John Fox has done a FANTASTIC job while in Denver....even leading a Tim Tebow led team to a playoff victory. Taking the last two teams to the AFC Championship, and SUper Bowl. To me, you don't simply replace someone that has shown to be a good coach, with great results, simply for a "new face" and hopes.

Agreed. It's typically not a very good idea to get rid of something you already have that is completely sufficient in hopes that the shiny new toy will be even better. The shiny new toy isn't always as great as it appears. And I don't see any good reason to be pushing Fox out the door. He has done nothing but win in Denver.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2014, 05:32 PM
Unless it is Coach Fox's decision to retire, I see no reason to replace him.

tomjonesrocks
08-21-2014, 05:35 PM
Ugh, I'd HATE to see Gase go. It's hard to argue Fox is a top-7 coach or so, but in the playoffs his limitations become apparent. Just hate to see a guy showing as much talent as Gase walk out with Denver getting nothing in return.

Though I wanted Fox's ass shit-canned after the SB mismanagement--I agree you can't replace a coach all but about 7 teams would love to have with a promising unknown--even if the unknown is in the organization. I still see Fox as among the weakest links to Denver's SB hopes, though.

Which will make Gase leaving more painful.

silkamilkamonico
08-21-2014, 08:16 PM
Though I wanted Fox's ass shit-canned after the SB mismanagement--I agree you can't replace a coach all but about 7 teams would love to have with a promising unknown--even if the unknown is in the organization. I still see Fox as among the weakest links to Denver's SB hopes, though.


For as bad as I think Fox prepared the team for the SuperBowl, I thought Gase looked equally confused when Seattle made adjustments and shut our offense down.


Fox has been outstanding in Denver though.

I just don't get the hype on Gase as a head coach.

Joel
08-21-2014, 09:03 PM
Fox has been outstanding in Denver though.

I just don't get the hype on Gase as a head coach.
I don't get how those two statements jibe, because Fox and Gases credit for Denvers success is essentially the same: They completely tore down and rebuilt an offense around an option QB in midseason, then managed to ride that to a Division title and a playoff win, then tore down and rebuilt that offense AGAIN in a single offseason and rode Peyton Manning to back-to-back 13 win seasons and AFC #1 seeds. Coaches are paid to fit gameplans and philosophies to the army they have, not the army they want; fine.

Nonetheless, those generals benefited from an implausibly lengthy string of implausible option QB plays only to have it all come crashing down once they were playing good teams every week, then blew their first playoff game with Manning and got destroyed from kickoff to gun when his record season took them to the SB. How much of that was them, and how much were they just along for the ride? When the chips were down and we needed LEADERSHIP because we couldn't just bowl people over with luck or talent, our coaches were simply not up to the task.

Fox can claim a bit more personal credit because he's a defensive coach and our D looks pretty fierce now, but it's the same D that looked anemic most of last year (in no small part due to injuries) and let us down big time in the previous seasons playoff: Preventing a 70 yd Hail Mary for <1 minute to preserve a TD is defenses easiest most basic task, yet ours failed it at the end of BOTH halves, allowing a team we led by a TD with <1 minute to play to drive the field for a TD not once, but TWICE.

I don't get the big deal about Fox OR Gase, and don't think it would be the end of the world to lose either or even BOTH. I've said before and will repeat: Adam Gase has the cushisest job in the NFL; what we all do for free (or even pay to do) he's paid handsomely to do: Watch Peyton Manning do his job FOR him 5 months/year. We played our two biggest regular seasons games back-to-back without Fox last year, winning one by 10 and jumping out to a 24-0 road lead before just missing a tie in the other at the end of OT: We survived his absence before, and would again.

They're our coaches and I wish them well, both now and when they cease being our coaches (except when coaching AGAINST us, of course.) But neither seems like anything special, and I'm really just hoping their up to snuff with arguably the most talented roster Denver's ever had: If we STILL don't win a SB, maybe it's past TIME for them to go.

silkamilkamonico
08-21-2014, 11:22 PM
I don't get how those two statements jibe, because Fox and Gases credit for Denvers success is essentially the same: They completely tore down and rebuilt an offense around an option QB in midseason, then managed to ride that to a Division title and a playoff win, then tore down and rebuilt that offense AGAIN in a single offseason and rode Peyton Manning to back-to-back 13 win seasons and AFC #1 seeds. Coaches are paid to fit gameplans and philosophies to the army they have, not the army they want; fine.


Gase was a QB's coach, McCoy was the offensive "mind" behind that season. I'm not taking anything away from Gase, he is a good young mind, but we're talking an in demand coach after te season? C'mon. I don't think he really built anything when Manning came to town. C'mon it's Peyton Manning. How many plays does he actually "Omaha" too that's a call from Gase, and not a read and call from Manning at the LOS?

If Manning ever got hurt, and Osweiler took over and played the season out, would people still talk about Gase as the NFL's next best thing for a young coach next year?

Dapper Dan
08-21-2014, 11:43 PM
I wonder how some people would view Fox if he weren't the Broncos coach. I'd bet most here would say the winning is all Manning and Fox is a figurehead.

MOtorboat
08-22-2014, 12:28 AM
I wonder how some people would view Fox if he weren't the Broncos coach. I'd bet most here would say the winning is all Manning and Fox is a figurehead.

Fox nearly beat a team that ended up becoming a dynasty with Jake ******* Delhomme in a Super Bowl. And he won a division with one of the worst quarterbacks to ever suit up.

Man can coach.

Dapper Dan
08-22-2014, 12:47 AM
Fox nearly beat a team that ended up becoming a dynasty with Jake ******* Delhomme in a Super Bowl. And he won a division with one of the worst quarterbacks to ever suit up.

Man can coach.

I'm not saying he can't. I'm just saying not everyone is as smart as you and I, MO. Duh.

iLands
08-22-2014, 12:55 AM
Screw Gase! I want Mr. Lazy Del Rio, right Mo?

MOtorboat
08-22-2014, 02:12 AM
Screw Gase! I want Mr. Lazy Del Rio, right Mo?

Oh, man.

I was wrong once. The utter horror.

OrangeHoof
08-22-2014, 09:22 AM
I know Gase is a hot commodity but how difficult is it to look good as Offensive Coordinator when Peyton Manning is your QB and the guy is a walking OC on the field? If he has to make Jake Goebbert or Brian Hoyer look good, then I'm impressed but Peyton Manning?

The last offensive genius in Denver was ??? and he's head coaching ??? and what's his record there?

ShaneFalco
08-22-2014, 10:30 AM
Adam has come a long way from QB coach.

Joel
08-22-2014, 12:14 PM
Gase was a QB's coach, McCoy was the offensive "mind" behind that season. I'm not taking anything away from Gase, he is a good young mind, but we're talking an in demand coach after te season? C'mon. I don't think he really built anything when Manning came to town. C'mon it's Peyton Manning. How many plays does he actually "Omaha" too that's a call from Gase, and not a read and call from Manning at the LOS?

If Manning ever got hurt, and Osweiler took over and played the season out, would people still talk about Gase as the NFL's next best thing for a young coach next year?
Rebuilding an offense around a QB with a very specific limited skillset involves the QBs coach as much as the OC; when Cincys starter was Virgil Carter (a VERY smart guy whose physical abilities are almost the exact opposite of our 2011 QBs) it was the QBs coach who created an entirely new offense to exploit his accuracy and understanding of the game whle minimizing his minimal arm strength. It made the Bengals competitive with Carter, and made QB coach Bill Walsh a four-time champion when he brought it to SF and a much better QB.

All that said, I suspect Gases situation is closer to Jim Lee Howells with the Giants: Not to take anything away from Howell, either, but most head coaches who had Landry as DC and Lombardi as OC would win a lot of games. Supposedly, Gase sends Manning 2-3 plays each down and the QB picks the one he likes, and how many of them are from Mannings Indy book?

It's a sweet deal: Gase collects a respectable salary for a job MANNING does, and gets a front row seat to watch that record-shattering passing offense.

Much the same applies to Fox, IMHO; how much of our defensive improvement is due to the old DB who played under Herm Edwards at San Diego State, and how much is due to the old LB who played under Jimmy Johnson in Dallas? We can talk about Foxs other SB appearance, but the reality is NE stomped the crap out of Carolina for 3 quarters before Fox "let Delhomme be Delhomme" and they clawed their way back to a close loss playing sandlot ball; sound familiar? Just as in 2011, he needed 3 OT wins to reach the playoffs and a 4th to advance.

In fairness to Fox, he's only been a head coach a dozen years, so maybe he's still improving. I hope so, because prior to Denver his teams only made the playoff 3 times in 9 years, and in one of them 3 OT wins were the difference between 11-5 and 8-8. In another he had a solid run to the NFCCG (ironically, against Seattle before their only other SB appearance,) but in the other his 12-4 Panthers secured a bye only to lose a lopsided one-and-done game against the 9-7 Cards en route to THEIR lone SB appearance.

Joel
08-22-2014, 12:15 PM
Just off the top of my head there are LITERALLY a TON of coaches I'd prefer. I'd take Belicheat, Carroll or Payton if they could coach as well clean as dirty—but they probably can't, so never mind.

Tom Coughlin; I'd take him over anyone, because he knows how to do the very most with the very least, and has—TWICE. Yes, his defenses were loaded with talent, but his offenses were journeyman linemen, journeyman RB and journeyman receivers surrounding a QB who'll never be considered anything more than Peyton Mannings kid brother. With that, he went on the road to beat Tampas 2nd ranked D by 10, the #1 seed who swept him in the season, then the #2 seed in OT at Lambeau in late January with his face freezing off his skull.

All he did after that was beat the NFLs first and only 16-0 team, holding an offense that shattered records all year to just 14 pts in the Super Bowl. Even after that, a few desultory years later their rumors his job was on the line in NY, so he went out and did it AGAIN, winning another January game in Lambeau before winning another OT Conference Championship on the road against SF. It's a pity NY didn't lose patience sooner, else we might have Coughlin now instead of Fox. There are still plenty of others I'd prefer.

Either Harbaugh
Andy Reid
Jeff Fisher, even though he's always struck me as a huge :censored: (but maybe that was Bud Adams' fault; if I worked for him, I'd probably have a permanent scowl, too.)
Lovie Smith; say what you want about the guy, anyone who can take GROSSMAN to a SB—and stay in it against PFM, Harrison and Wayne in their prime—can't be useless.
Mike Tomlin, though I wouldn't hire him until/unless he gave a good explanation for his sideline-assisted tackle last year.
Bruce Arians

I wouldn't even take Fox first among DENVER head coaches, but Shanny, Wade, or Kubiak (who knows the value of running a great offense, hiring a solid DC, and STAYING OUT OF HIS WAY.)

After those 11 guys (14 if we count the dirty ones,) Fox is probably as good as anyone, at least until/unless Chip Kelly proves he's for real. Though, again, that's just off the top of my head; if we looked, there are probably a few others more desirable than Fox. Some would add Rex Ryan, but I don't think he's mastered that "stick to what you do best, and hire someone better to run the half of the team you'll NEVER understand" thing. Plus, the whole Ryan family is colossal douches in my book, so no, thanks.

BroncoNut
08-22-2014, 12:17 PM
John Fox has done a FANTASTIC job while in Denver....even leading a Tim Tebow led team to a playoff victory. Taking the last two teams to the AFC Championship, and SUper Bowl. To me, you don't simply replace someone that has shown to be a good coach, with great results, simply for a "new face" and hopes.

I was gonna say, ... why not stay with foxy for a while?

Valar Morghulis
08-22-2014, 12:51 PM
I want Jose mourinho

MOtorboat
08-22-2014, 12:53 PM
Bruce Arians, Wade and Kubiak?

Yup, gonna disagree with that.

Valar Morghulis
08-22-2014, 12:57 PM
Bruce Arians, Wade and Kubiak?

Yup, gonna disagree with that.

Arians could work with oz. But wade and kubiak - that'd just nostalgia, you may as well want shanny back.

Although shanny jnr shows promise.

For all foxys conservatism (that ravens game) and awful challenges (every challenge) I have no beef with him.

MOtorboat
08-22-2014, 01:35 PM
Arians could work with oz. But wade and kubiak - that'd just nostalgia, you may as well want shanny back.

Although shanny jnr shows promise.

For all foxys conservatism (that ravens game) and awful challenges (every challenge) I have no beef with him.

I was responding more to the idea that three coaches with a combined three playoff wins are better than a coach who has taken two different teams to a Super Bowl.

Joel
08-22-2014, 01:50 PM
Arians could work with oz. But wade and kubiak - that'd just nostalgia, you may as well want shanny back.
I DO want Shanny back, and wish he'd never left, but Kubiak as OC and Wade as DC would probably be even better. In my fantasy world where Shanny didn't take Wades job and Kubiak didn't have to get out of Shannys shadow for a chance to make his own name as a head coach, it would be all three, but the only thing less likely than Shannys return is Wade working for him.

Joel
08-22-2014, 01:51 PM
I was responding more to the idea that three coaches with a combined three playoff wins are better than a coach who has taken two different teams to a Super Bowl.
Problem is, he couldn't win it singlehandedly, because Seattle wisely sold out on stopping him, and Fox didn't know how to score with anyone else. Foxs other SB appearance needed 3 OT wins to reach the playoffs and a 4th to reach the SB Carolina might've won had he taken the leash off Delhomme before the end of a beating that lasted till the end of the 3rd quarter.

Taking Carolina to the NFCCG against Seattle in '05 was more impressive—and the only other time Fox EVER won a playoff game. Like it or not, 316 passing yards beat Pitt, not Fox.

MOtorboat
08-22-2014, 01:54 PM
Problem is, he couldn't win it singlehandedly, because Seattle wisely sold out on stopping him, and Fox didn't know how to score with anyone else. Foxs other SB appearance needed 3 OT wins to reach the playoffs and a 4th to reach the SB Carolina might've won had he taken the leash off Delhomme before the end of a beating that lasted till the end of the 3rd quarter.

Taking Carolina to the NFCCG against Seattle in '05 was more impressive—and the only other time Fox EVER won a playoff game. Like it or not, 316 passing yards beat Pitt, not Fox.

Fox gets no credit for his playoff wins, but watch how much credit Joel will give other coaches for their playoff wins...

And I'm the Debbie Downer.

Valar Morghulis
08-22-2014, 02:17 PM
I was responding more to the idea that three coaches with a combined three playoff wins are better than a coach who has taken two different teams to a Super Bowl.

Yeah mate, i was trying to back that up

CrazyHorse
08-22-2014, 04:55 PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Cugel
08-23-2014, 11:48 AM
Good God Joel, you criticize my dissertations but you just wrote several novels longer than War and Peace! :laugh:

Cugel
08-23-2014, 11:54 AM
Obviously Fox is not going anywhere and it doesn't seem to me that Adam Gase is automatically going to be a great head coach because he's been very successful with Peyton Manning. About the best that can be said is that given the fastest horse in the race, he didn't pull back on the reins and slow him down.

If Fox retired when Manning did, whatever coach came in would struggle. Remember when Shanny was the "Mastermind" -- until Elway retired and suddenly he became the remedial student. Same thing will suddenly happen to Fox when Peyton retires. He'll struggle to get this team into the playoffs.

At least Fox isn't GM as well as coach so there's a good chance he'll continue to be successful. If he can coach Tim Tebow to a playoff win, I don't know how anybody can say he's not a good coach.

His strength is that he gets along with people so he can hire the best assistant coaches and there's no ego clash -- in short, he's the opposite of McMoron.

Joel
08-23-2014, 02:08 PM
Fox gets no credit for his playoff wins, but watch how much credit Joel will give other coaches for their playoff wins...

And I'm the Debbie Downer.
2003: 3 OT wins to to reach the playoffs, a 4th to reach the NFCCG, and a Super Bowl Carolina trailed by double digits before Fox finally let Delhomme bomb them back into it in the 4th.
2005: An 11-5 season and playoff run Seattle ended in the NFCCG; a quality season.
2011: 3 OT wins to reach the playoffs, a 4th to reach the divisional round thanks to our EXTREMELY flukey QB; the 20 pt 2nd quarter and walkoff OT TD weren't Fox.
2013: All Manning, all day, until Seattle sold out on stopping him and humiliated us from the opening kick to final play in the Super Bowl.

That's allf Foxs playoff wins; his 12-4 Panthers were one-and-done against Carolina in 2008, and his 13-3 Broncos were one-and-done against Baltimore in 2012. 4 of his 9 playoff wins were only POSSIBLE because of 6 regular season OT wins; 3 more were Denvers QB (1 playoff win's in both categories.) Meh.

Winning 3 OT games in a year is almost the definition of luck, and Fox added an OT playoff win both times; otherwise, 2005 looks like his peak: 11-5 and an NFCCG loss.

7DnBrnc53
08-25-2014, 09:57 AM
I DO want Shanny back, and wish he'd never left, but Kubiak as OC and Wade as DC would probably be even better. In my fantasy world where Shanny didn't take Wades job and Kubiak didn't have to get out of Shannys shadow for a chance to make his own name as a head coach, it would be all three, but the only thing less likely than Shannys return is Wade working for him.

If Shanny doesn't have control over player personnel, he would be OK. Shanny the GM cost Shanny the coach so many times in the 2000's, and he pissed away his HOF chances with stupid draft picks (Deltha O'Neal, the broken slot machines, Willie Middlebrooks, George Foster) and stupid FA signings and trades (Daryl Gardener, the safety trio from hell, DeWayne Robertson, Niko Koutovides, Nate Webster).

Joel
08-25-2014, 05:28 PM
If Shanny doesn't have control over player personnel, he would be OK. Shanny the GM cost Shanny the coach so many times in the 2000's, and he pissed away his HOF chances with stupid draft picks (Deltha O'Neal, the broken slot machines, Willie Middlebrooks, George Foster) and stupid FA signings and trades (Daryl Gardener, the safety trio from hell, DeWayne Robertson, Niko Koutovides, Nate Webster).
Maybe, but it's kinda like why Parcells said he left the Pats after taking them to the SB: "They want you to cook the dinner; at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries. Okay?" Great coaches can take soggy oatmeal to 9-7, but they ALL have particular strengths, weaknesses and preferred familiar styles that require particular skills and talents from players. That's why I'd give any new coach 3-4 years to replace whatever ill-suited roster his predecessor left him, and why every coach wants heavy input in personnel decisions.

That said, Shanny took us to our ONLY SB wins in 7 tries, has the most wins of ANY Broncos coach (including Reeves, who took us to 3 SBs and a garbage Falcons team to a 4th) and only had 3 losing seasons in 14 years running Denver, NEVER worse than 6-10 (which only happened twice, once being when Griese took over from Elway.) We could do worse, and have—every time.

Northman
08-25-2014, 05:30 PM
People do realize that he has had Peyton Manning at the helm right? I would probably be a little more impressed if he was able to do this shit with Kap or Gabbert in SF. You could basically put a monkey in Adam's position and we would be just as successful.

Joel
08-25-2014, 05:44 PM
Like I say, he's got the best job in football: A fat salary and a front row seat to watch a first ballot HoFer do his job for him. If Peyton could coach defense, he might have another Ring.

Valar Morghulis
05-07-2015, 01:04 PM
Remember this thread lol

I particularly enjoyed my post about Wade and Kubes - "just for nostalgia"

I was on team Fox this time last year, now I am so glad he is gone.

ShaneFalco
05-07-2015, 01:15 PM
where did joel go