Broncos backup QB Brock Osweiler stars in preseason rout of 49ers

[Denver Native (Carol)]

SANTA CLARA, Calif. — Brock Osweiler is no longer just playing quarterback between the 20s.

For the first time in his three years as Peyton Manning's understudy, Osweiler is finishing drives.

"I think one of the hardest things in the NFL is scoring points in the low red area," Osweiler said Sunday night from the squeaky-clean bowels of freshly opened Levi's Stadium after helping his Broncos destroy the San Francisco 49ers 34-0. "That's one thing we spend a lot of time on in practice. Obviously, now I've had two years of getting reps of that in practice, so now we're starting to see things translate to games."

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26355910/broncos-backup-qb-brock-osweiler-stars-preseason-rout

[MOtorboat]

I like Brock.

[BroncoJoe]

I like Brock.

Me too. No homo.

[MOtorboat]

Me too. No homo.

Brockembe Mutumbo.

[TXBRONC]

If Manning went down I think the team would be in good hand with Osweiler.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If Manning went down I think the team would be in good hand with Osweiler.

So, you're sayin Brock is like an Allstate insurance policy? I like it (even though I don't care for Allstate)

[tripp]

If Manning went down I think the team would be in good hand with Osweiler.

For a couple games or the entire season...?

[silkamilkamonico]

Fox was on the radio and they were going to ask him about Brock's future here in Denver because the think Manning could play another 3 years and it sounded like there may be a good chance we could lose Brock but I didn't get to hear the hole interview.

[Joel]

Fox was on the radio and they were going to ask him about Brock's future here in Denver because the think Manning could play another 3 years and it sounded like there may be a good chance we could lose Brock but I didn't get to hear the hole interview.
He's not Favre, and even Favre wasn't Favre at the end. Since he was born in October, he was 39 when he dinked and dunked his way to a career-high completion percentage and PR, but it all imploded his next and final season. Manning turned 38 last March, and hasn't made a career out of trusting his strength to rocket balls into double coverage and be right more often than wrong.

Plus there's the issue that's hovered over Manning almost since he began his career of methodically winning a dozen games annually. In that sense, there are only two ways any season can end, and both lead to the same question: How long will Manning stick around after his next SB win? And how long will he stick around NOT winning one? I turn 40 in a month, and have been in Norway nearly as long as he's been in Denver; football season is the time of year I have second thoughts about that. December in Denver's very different than December in New Orleans.

As another thread notes, this is Mannings ultimate (i.e. final) 2:00 drill. I stand by "he's got 2, MAYBE 3, good years left." This is #3; if he tries to stretch it to 4 or 5, his career ends like Aikmans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-WNgfeYORQ

[Joel]

So yeah, I HOPE Oz is coming along, 'cause we're gonna need him sooner rather than later. And (for many reasons,) I hope we've got the horses for Manning to retire a champion.

[Dapper Dan]

Yeah. Manning really showed his age last season.

[Joel]

Yeah. Manning really showed his age last season.
Again, the year Favres NFCCG OT Int ended Minnesotas SB hopes was statistically his CAREER BEST—then he fell apart and retired. Few (if any) QBs had Favres toughness (the active player closest to his consecutive starts record's still >100 games behind) and Manning's definitely not among them; he's almost always benefited from great protection and GMs who knews its worth.

Even before his injury, he never had Favres raw power either, was more "laser" than "rocket; when that goes, it usually goes FAST. It only took Farve a year to go from his CAREER BEST completion percentage to his second WORST EVER, accompanied by just 11 TDs but 19 Ints. No one wants to see Manning suffer through that before admitting it's time to go. The last sand is passing through the hour glass; it's just a question of how many grains remain. AFTER that, the question is whether they go before Ozs contract and if he's fit to start.

[TXBRONC]

For a couple games or the entire season...?

Both.

[BroncoJoe]

So, I'm guessing Manning = Favre? Did anyone read and/or understand that mess?

[tripp]

Both.

I can't agree that we'd be in good hands for an entire season with Oz, I think we'd be an OK team. I really do think he could potentially squeeze out a win in a game or two (if manning were to get injured), depending on who we play.

Oz has the best 2nd string QB job in the NFL, he would be a fool to go somewhere else to basically audition for first string at a crappy team. This team knows he is the future, they have YOUNG and EXPERIENCED receivers who will be here for him when he is ready to be 1st string. He's won the toughest part, having the team believe in him and his skills set. He leaves Denver, he has to prove that all over again to a team with less talented receivers, and he won't be given as much slack for bad mistakes like he has been given here in Denver. I wouldn't be surprised if his agent puts the idea out there to him for a move, but if he was smart, he'd stay right here.

[BroncoJoe]

I just can't see another team really going after him. He's had such little game time, and preseason is, well, preseason. A lot of guys look very good right now.

[Northman]

Brockembe Mutumbo.

Brockasaurus Rex.

I really hope he is our future. I like him and hope for the best with him. He's got to study under one of the best QB's ever and works for another legendary QB. If you cant succeed with that than you really arent trying. But im pulling for the kid.

[TXBRONC]

I can't agree that we'd be in good hands for an entire season with Oz, I think we'd be an OK team. I really do think he could potentially squeeze out a win in a game or two, depending on who we play.

Oz has the best 2nd string QB job in the NFL, he would be a fool to go somewhere else to basically audition for first string at a crappy team. This team knows he is the future, they have YOUNG and EXPERIENCED receivers who will be here for him when he is ready to be 1st string. He's won the toughest part, having the team believe in him and his skills set. He leaves Denver, he has to prove that all over again to a team with less talented receivers, and he won't be given as much slack for bad mistakes like he has been given here in Denver. I wouldn't be surprised if his agent puts the idea out there to him for a move, but if he was smart, he'd stay right here.

If he had play the entire I don't see how Denver wouldn't have good chance of making the playoffs. Manning gives the Broncos the chances to win more game. IIRC the Colts average 12 wins a year with Manning at quarterback. That said if this team is as talented as we think is on both sides of the ball should still be able win 10 to 11 games. If they win that many games they are more than likely in the playoffs.

[TXBRONC]

So, you're sayin Brock is like an Allstate insurance policy? I like it (even though I don't care for Allstate)

As I said to Tripp if the Broncos are as talented as we think they are then they should be capable of winning 10 to 11 generally get a team into the playoffs.

[BroncoNut]

If Manning went down I think the team would be in good hand with Osweiler.

that and in case other bad things happen, it will all work itself out in the end

[BroncoNut]

Brockasaurus Rex.

I really hope he is our future. I like him and hope for the best with him. He's got to study under one of the best QB's ever and works for another legendary QB. If you cant succeed with that than you really arent trying. But im pulling for the kid.
Brockback Mounting

[Dapper Dan]

I just can't see another team really going after him. He's had such little game time, and preseason is, well, preseason. A lot of guys look very good right now.

Someone would have gotten Kirk Cousins by now.

[Dapper Dan]

Again, the year Favres NFCCG OT Int ended Minnesotas SB hopes was statistically his CAREER BEST—then he fell apart and retired. Few (if any) QBs had Favres toughness (the active player closest to his consecutive starts record's still >100 games behind) and Manning's definitely not among them; he's almost always benefited from great protection and GMs who knews its worth.

Even before his injury, he never had Favres raw power either, was more "laser" than "rocket; when that goes, it usually goes FAST. It only took Farve a year to go from his CAREER BEST completion percentage to his second WORST EVER, accompanied by just 11 TDs but 19 Ints. No one wants to see Manning suffer through that before admitting it's time to go. The last sand is passing through the hour glass; it's just a question of how many grains remain. AFTER that, the question is whether they go before Ozs contract and if he's fit to start.


So you're saying that when the arm strength that Manning doesn't have is gone, then he will throw poorly?

Peyton Manning doesn't play the same way that Farve did. He doesn't rely on the same strengths.

[Cugel]

Yeah. Manning really showed his age last season.

Lol! Look, all you Brock Osweiler fans, except to substitute for an injured Manning, he will probably NEVER start a game for the Broncos. Peyton Manning has publicly stated that he would like and intends to play out his contract. His contract was for 5 years, through the 2016 season. Brock Osweiler will become an unrestricted free agent after the 2015 season.

There is ZERO reason why Manning cannot play until he's 41. He doesn't rely on arm strength or athleticism to be successful. He's NEVER had a particularly strong arm nor great speed or maneuverability. He relies on his intelligence and knowledge of the game and his accurate throwing arm. None of that is going to desert him. He throws so quickly that he's hardly ever sacked. Even in the Super Bowl rout he wasn't sacked once despite constant intense pressure from the Seattle defense.

He's healthier than he's been in years, his throwing arm is a lot stronger than when he arrived in Denver, and he's just had the greatest single season passing of any QB in history.

I said when Manning came to Denver that I expected him to play for 5 years. Everybody said 1 or 2. People said things like "Of course he's never going to be the Peyton Manning of his best career season in 2004, but if he's 80% of what he was at his peak he'll still be better than most of the QBs in the NFL." Well, he wasn't better than 80%, he was better than 100% of all the QBs EVER!

And how likely is he really to be injured? He's a pocket passing QB and with the modern rules it's a 15 yard penalty for even giving the QB a dirty look. You can't hit them below the thigh or above the chest. No helmet to helmet, and hitting the QB in the head, even accidentally can result in not only a fine but a suspension and loss of income.

And unlike many QBs he actually loves practice, working out in the off-season with teammates, meeting with coaches and talking football, etc. Being an NFL QB is his life. It's all he does and all he wants to do. Baring a career ending injury he's going to play out his contract.

This brings us to Osweiler. Is he going to wait until his 6th year in the league to get a chance to start? If Manning comes back in 2016 are the Broncos going to say "sorry Peyton, we're going with Brock Osweiler?" It's not as if Osweiler is Andrew Luck. Luck has the potential to be another Manning, and was the highest rated prospect of the last 15 years. You don't pass on 15 years of Andrew Luck for potentially 1 or 2 years with Manning.

Osweiler will leave after his contract expires so he can start somewhere in 2016, his 5th season in the league. It's unfortunate but I don't see him ever becoming the Broncos franchise QB.

[BroncoNut]

So you're saying that when the arm strength that Manning doesn't have is gone, then he will throw poorly?

Peyton Manning doesn't play the same way that Farve did. He doesn't rely on the same strengths.

exactly why there will be no bust of Peyton Manning in Canton New Jersey. and no, this is not a troll post

[Dapper Dan]

exactly why there will be no bust of Peyton Manning in Canton New Jersey. and no, this is not a troll post

That's probably what a troll post would say.

[Dapper Dan]

Maybe that's Elway's plan. Try his best to keep Oz hidden, so that no one wants him.

[BroncoNut]

That's probably what a troll post would say.

like to be totally honest, probably

[Cugel]

Someone would have gotten Kirk Cousins by now.

This is exactly right. Some team is going to look at their QBs prior to the 2016 season and decide that Brock Osweiler looks better than what they have. Unless he regresses from where he is now, they're going to say to themselves that he's shown some promise in limited action, that he could potentially be successful in the NFL and that he has 4 years of NFL experience learning from Peyton Manning.

There's going to be a number of teams wanting QBs who will give Brock a look.

"
I would think in the ideal world everybody says you need to groom them slowly. I don't really believe that," said Ron Wolf, who retired as the Green Bay Packers' GM in 2001. "I think this is one area where the game hasn't changed. If you don't have one of those guys [elite quarterbacks] you don't have a bleeping chance when you play on Sunday. It's a demoralizing experience. I had been through that for two years. It's an unbelievable feeling.

"However, if you get a guy that's good enough, he's good enough now. Not in all the nuances of the game, all the sophistications of the game, but he's good enough to play."

NFL GMs and coaches know that if you have even an adequate QB who wins more than he loses, you can keep your job, and if you don't have that guy you get fired. Someone is going to think that Osweiler can be their guy and they will pay him $15 million and give him a chance to prove it, just like KC did with Matt Cassel.

[Joel]

So you're saying that when the arm strength that Manning doesn't have is gone, then he will throw poorly?

Peyton Manning doesn't play the same way that Farve did. He doesn't rely on the same strengths.
I'm saying Mannings 40-year-old arm will weaaken as much as Favres did, and Favres in his prime was much stronger than Mannings has ever been.

It's true Mannings style's very different (thank God; had Cutler imprinted more on Manning and less on Favre, he might have a Ring by now) but it's also true there's only a split second difference between "NFL open" and an Int. It's not hard to imagine Manning at 40; it looks a lot like the first month of 2012, the Falcons game in particular. There was a beautiful pass Sunday (to Welker, IIRC) where he just barely threaded the needle between two defenders for a long third down conversion: At 40 that's a pick.

Meanwhile, all the mental and emotional factors remain: If Manning wins the next Super Bowl, will he come back for more, or go out on a top, a two-time winner who cemented his legacy and leaves all with the enduring icon image of him hoisting a Lombardi in his last act as a player? And if he DOESN'T win it all, will he come back for a FOURTH season to freeze his balls off through home games in November, December and the playoffs despite mounting frustration and the knowledge age has made that elusive second Ring that much MORE elusive?

Bearing in mind we can't keep loading up great FAs for "win now" mode forever, and have some big names in the last or next-to-last year of their contract. Everyone's focused on Demaryius, and SOMEONE will give him a big raise from his current $3.275 mil—but JULIUS will get a far bigger bump from his current $645,000. We won't get Chris Harris back for $2 mil either. Ware's into us for $7 mil next year, Talib, another $6 mil. It's only going to get harder for him; if he couldn't do it in 2012, 2013 or 2014... well, WE might believe 2015's finally his year, but it's not OUR call.

[Northman]

Lol! Look, all you Brock Osweiler fans, except to substitute for an injured Manning, he will probably NEVER start a game for the Broncos. Peyton Manning has publicly stated that he would like and intends to play out his contract. His contract was for 5 years, through the 2016 season. Brock Osweiler will become an unrestricted free agent after the 2015 season.

There is ZERO reason why Manning cannot play until he's 41. He doesn't rely on arm strength or athleticism to be successful. He's NEVER had a particularly strong arm nor great speed or maneuverability. He relies on his intelligence and knowledge of the game and his accurate throwing arm. None of that is going to desert him. He throws so quickly that he's hardly ever sacked. Even in the Super Bowl rout he wasn't sacked once despite constant intense pressure from the Seattle defense.

He's healthier than he's been in years, his throwing arm is a lot stronger than when he arrived in Denver, and he's just had the greatest single season passing of any QB in history.

I said when Manning came to Denver that I expected him to play for 5 years. Everybody said 1 or 2. People said things like "Of course he's never going to be the Peyton Manning of his best career season in 2004, but if he's 80% of what he was at his peak he'll still be better than most of the QBs in the NFL." Well, he wasn't better than 80%, he was better than 100% of all the QBs EVER!

And how likely is he really to be injured? He's a pocket passing QB and with the modern rules it's a 15 yard penalty for even giving the QB a dirty look. You can't hit them below the thigh or above the chest. No helmet to helmet, and hitting the QB in the head, even accidentally can result in not only a fine but a suspension and loss of income.

And unlike many QBs he actually loves practice, working out in the off-season with teammates, meeting with coaches and talking football, etc. Being an NFL QB is his life. It's all he does and all he wants to do. Baring a career ending injury he's going to play out his contract.

This brings us to Osweiler. Is he going to wait until his 6th year in the league to get a chance to start? If Manning comes back in 2016 are the Broncos going to say "sorry Peyton, we're going with Brock Osweiler?" It's not as if Osweiler is Andrew Luck. Luck has the potential to be another Manning, and was the highest rated prospect of the last 15 years. You don't pass on 15 years of Andrew Luck for potentially 1 or 2 years with Manning.

Osweiler will leave after his contract expires so he can start somewhere in 2016, his 5th season in the league. It's unfortunate but I don't see him ever becoming the Broncos franchise QB.

Oh look! Zam showed up.

[BroncoJoe]

Lol! Look, all you Brock Osweiler fans, except to substitute for an injured Manning, he will probably NEVER start a game for the Broncos. Peyton Manning has publicly stated that he would like and intends to play out his contract. His contract was for 5 years, through the 2016 season. Brock Osweiler will become an unrestricted free agent after the 2015 season.

There is ZERO reason why Manning cannot play until he's 41. He doesn't rely on arm strength or athleticism to be successful. He's NEVER had a particularly strong arm nor great speed or maneuverability. He relies on his intelligence and knowledge of the game and his accurate throwing arm. None of that is going to desert him. He throws so quickly that he's hardly ever sacked. Even in the Super Bowl rout he wasn't sacked once despite constant intense pressure from the Seattle defense.

He's healthier than he's been in years, his throwing arm is a lot stronger than when he arrived in Denver, and he's just had the greatest single season passing of any QB in history.

I said when Manning came to Denver that I expected him to play for 5 years. Everybody said 1 or 2. People said things like "Of course he's never going to be the Peyton Manning of his best career season in 2004, but if he's 80% of what he was at his peak he'll still be better than most of the QBs in the NFL." Well, he wasn't better than 80%, he was better than 100% of all the QBs EVER!

And how likely is he really to be injured? He's a pocket passing QB and with the modern rules it's a 15 yard penalty for even giving the QB a dirty look. You can't hit them below the thigh or above the chest. No helmet to helmet, and hitting the QB in the head, even accidentally can result in not only a fine but a suspension and loss of income.

And unlike many QBs he actually loves practice, working out in the off-season with teammates, meeting with coaches and talking football, etc. Being an NFL QB is his life. It's all he does and all he wants to do. Baring a career ending injury he's going to play out his contract.

This brings us to Osweiler. Is he going to wait until his 6th year in the league to get a chance to start? If Manning comes back in 2016 are the Broncos going to say "sorry Peyton, we're going with Brock Osweiler?" It's not as if Osweiler is Andrew Luck. Luck has the potential to be another Manning, and was the highest rated prospect of the last 15 years. You don't pass on 15 years of Andrew Luck for potentially 1 or 2 years with Manning.

Osweiler will leave after his contract expires so he can start somewhere in 2016, his 5th season in the league. It's unfortunate but I don't see him ever becoming the Broncos franchise QB.

To go where exactly? What team is going to sign someone who hasn't played in (virtually) any games other than preseason?


This is exactly right. Some team is going to look at their QBs prior to the 2016 season and decide that Brock Osweiler looks better than what they have. Unless he regresses from where he is now, they're going to say to themselves that he's shown some promise in limited action, that he could potentially be successful in the NFL and that he has 4 years of NFL experience learning from Peyton Manning.

There's going to be a number of teams wanting QBs who will give Brock a look.

"

NFL GMs and coaches know that if you have even an adequate QB who wins more than he loses, you can keep your job, and if you don't have that guy you get fired. Someone is going to think that Osweiler can be their guy and they will pay him $15 million and give him a chance to prove it, just like KC did with Matt Cassel.

No f'ing way that happens.

[tripp]

Someone would have gotten Kirk Cousins by now.

I'm not a college football guy, I rarely watch many if not any games, so just by going with what I've seen of him in the NFL, I like what I see. I was impressed with him when RG3 got injured towards the end of the season in both their rookie years. I was impressed with him on Monday night, the first time that evening where you saw some sort of continuity and rhythm in either offence. He needs work, but I'm surprised teams who need a QB aren't trying to make a trade for him. I understand Washington wanted something high for him, but I think a 2nd rounder would be sufficient enough.


Lol! Look, all you Brock Osweiler fans, except to substitute for an injured Manning, he will probably NEVER start a game for the Broncos. Peyton Manning has publicly stated that he would like and intends to play out his contract. His contract was for 5 years, through the 2016 season. Brock Osweiler will become an unrestricted free agent after the 2015 season.

There is ZERO reason why Manning cannot play until he's 41. He doesn't rely on arm strength or athleticism to be successful. He's NEVER had a particularly strong arm nor great speed or maneuverability. He relies on his intelligence and knowledge of the game and his accurate throwing arm. None of that is going to desert him. He throws so quickly that he's hardly ever sacked. Even in the Super Bowl rout he wasn't sacked once despite constant intense pressure from the Seattle defense.

He's healthier than he's been in years, his throwing arm is a lot stronger than when he arrived in Denver, and he's just had the greatest single season passing of any QB in history.

I said when Manning came to Denver that I expected him to play for 5 years. Everybody said 1 or 2. People said things like "Of course he's never going to be the Peyton Manning of his best career season in 2004, but if he's 80% of what he was at his peak he'll still be better than most of the QBs in the NFL." Well, he wasn't better than 80%, he was better than 100% of all the QBs EVER!

And how likely is he really to be injured? He's a pocket passing QB and with the modern rules it's a 15 yard penalty for even giving the QB a dirty look. You can't hit them below the thigh or above the chest. No helmet to helmet, and hitting the QB in the head, even accidentally can result in not only a fine but a suspension and loss of income.

And unlike many QBs he actually loves practice, working out in the off-season with teammates, meeting with coaches and talking football, etc. Being an NFL QB is his life. It's all he does and all he wants to do. Baring a career ending injury he's going to play out his contract.

This brings us to Osweiler. Is he going to wait until his 6th year in the league to get a chance to start? If Manning comes back in 2016 are the Broncos going to say "sorry Peyton, we're going with Brock Osweiler?" It's not as if Osweiler is Andrew Luck. Luck has the potential to be another Manning, and was the highest rated prospect of the last 15 years. You don't pass on 15 years of Andrew Luck for potentially 1 or 2 years with Manning.

Osweiler will leave after his contract expires so he can start somewhere in 2016, his 5th season in the league. It's unfortunate but I don't see him ever becoming the Broncos franchise QB.

I agree for the most part, and you raise a good point where Manning could play out his entire contract, and if not maybe another year. I certainly don't see Manning retiring early for the sake of Oz (nor would I expect him to). I don't think anyone, including myself, knew Manning would be THIS prolific in Denver after neck surgery. The better half of us expected him to be done after a year or two. The trouble with Oz is this, he has talent, he has shown a lot of maturity from even last year. When 2015 rolls around and Oz's contract expires, of course we will offer him a new one, whether he will stay or not is up to him. I've explained why I think it'd be counter productive to his development and to the Broncos future for him to leave. But at the end of the day, Manning > Oz. Always.

I personally think Manning has 2 years left in him physically and mentally. I think it gets tougher on his body every year, and I think as much as he loves practice, training camp, preparing for upcoming games, it will eventually become hard work after doing it for 17+ years. Having a new start in Denver has definitely given him a new life, and may have even extended his career by a couple of years in the sense of experiencing a new stadium, facility, team, etc. I still think 4 years in Denver is better than what any of us could've hoped for.

[tripp]

To go where exactly? What team is going to sign someone who hasn't played in (virtually) any games other than preseason?



No f'ing way that happens.



He was probably thinking of Matt Flynn when he got his pay day after having one excellent game for the Packers when Rodgers was injured. But that would require Oz to play a game, and do extremely well too.

[Joel]

This brings us to Osweiler. Is he going to wait until his 6th year in the league to get a chance to start?
Steve Young waited till his 7th. Actually, no: He started most of his rookie year and played so awfully the Bucs finished dead last, so they decided he was a bum, traded him to SF and drafted Testaverde #1 overall (a classic case of a poor workman blaming his tools; Hugh Culverhouse dying so his son sold the team to the Glazers was the best thing that ever happened to Tampa.) Remember, Young was TRADED; he looked good every time Montana got hurt, but SF still managed to keep him on the roster as a backup for 5 years.

Oz has never gotten that kind of playing time as a backup (and, Heaven willing, never will) nor looked as good the few times he did play. Whether we WANT to keep him on the bench 5 years is debatable, but there's no reason to think we CAN'T.


If Manning comes back in 2016 are the Broncos going to say "sorry Peyton, we're going with Brock Osweiler?" It's not as if Osweiler is Andrew Luck. Luck has the potential to be another Manning, and was the highest rated prospect of the last 15 years. You don't pass on 15 years of Andrew Luck for potentially 1 or 2 years with Manning.

Osweiler will leave after his contract expires so he can start somewhere in 2016, his 5th season in the league. It's unfortunate but I don't see him ever becoming the Broncos franchise QB.
If Manning's still playing 10 months after he turns 40, he and everyone but our opponents will wish he weren't. I'm dubious Oz is his successor, but he's the best we've got until/unless we draft someone who looks better (which I wouldn't bet against in the next year or two.)

[BroncoWave]

Too many essays in this thread.

[Dapper Dan]

Too many essays in this thread.

Yea

[silkamilkamonico]

Osweiler will leave after his contract expires so he can start somewhere in 2016, his 5th season in the league. It's unfortunate but I don't see him ever becoming the Broncos franchise QB.

So, Osweiler is going to leave Denver when his contract his up to sign a low contract with a team and have an oppurtunity to compete, instead of re-signing with Denver (for likely a modest incentive driven amount), where he will sit for 1 season (at the most if it even comes to that) where they will have absolutely no QB in the wings of Manning's retirement, and where he already would know the system and players around him?

I'm not buying what you're selling. At all.

[Cugel]

To go where exactly? What team is going to sign someone who hasn't played in (virtually) any games other than preseason?

No f'ing way that happens.

I'm laughing at you for thinking that no team is going to offer Brock Osweiler what is essentially an average starting NFL QB salary. :laugh:

Matt Cassel fills in for an injured Tom Brady and takes virtually the same Patriots team that won 18 games the previous year to an 11-5 record and misses the playoffs for the only time in a decade, and the next year the Chiefs offer him $15 million a year to come to Kansas City. If they hadn't someone else would have. Then he sucked his way out of a job of course, and got his coach and GM fired. But he got his money.

There will be plenty of film on Osweiler by 2015 and if he continues to progress and get better lots of teams are going to be interested in him because he's experienced and has been in the league for 4 years. He's exactly the kind of QB teams will look for if their starting QB sucks.

Of course they'll probably also draft a rookie QB if things don't work out, and probably only the first year of Osweiler's contract will be guaranteed. But, that won't stop them from signing him for big money. It's virtually guaranteed to happen.

QB is so essential to winning in the NFL that a GM will sign and pay big money for one if he thinks the guy will be better than mediocre, and his existing QB isn't (as all too many of them aren't). Until Brock proves he can't do the job there's going to be a lot of interest.

He doesn't have to be the next Peyton Manning to get paid a lot of money to start somewhere.

He will get his chance to start in the NFL, it's virtually guaranteed. It just won't be with the Broncos unless Peyton retires after 2015 and declines to play out his contract.

[BroncoJoe]

Too many essays in this thread.

Seriously. If you can't make a point in a few sentences, you probably don't have one.

[Cugel]

Seriously. If you can't make a point in a few sentences, you probably don't have one.

Move your lips when you read?

Is that short enough for you? :coffee:

[BroncoJoe]

Move your lips when you read?

Is that short enough for you? :coffee:

:confused:

[Cugel]

So, Osweiler is going to leave Denver when his contract his up to sign a low contract with a team and have an oppurtunity to compete, instead of re-signing with Denver (for likely a modest incentive driven amount), where he will sit for 1 season (at the most if it even comes to that) where they will have absolutely no QB in the wings of Manning's retirement, and where he already would know the system and players around him?

I'm not buying what you're selling. At all.

The key word is "modest." That's where your entire argument falls to the ground. Brock Osweiler right now is probably better than a number of starting QBs in the league. In 2015 someone will offer him starter money to go elsewhere and he will.

Watch and see for yourself.

[silkamilkamonico]

The key word is "modest." That's where your entire argument falls to the ground. Brock Osweiler right now is probably better than a number of starting QBs in the league. In 2015 someone will offer him starter money to go elsewhere and he will.

Watch and see for yourself.

No. "Modest" at whatever level you want to think of, is still more than what another team will offer Brock. Not only will he have a better oppotunity to be a starter in Denver, but he will make more money because Denver will not have a starting QB type salary they have to pay.

I cannot believe people are still trying to argue this. Peyton Manning isn't playing forever - you need to deal with it.

What's worse is you are actually trying to create an argument for Brock being better than some starting QB's in the NFL. He isn't even the best backup QB in the NFL right now.

[BroncoJoe]

But Silk, Brock is somehow going to get a $15MM/year contract!! Bank on it!!!!


/sarcasm

[silkamilkamonico]

But Silk, Brock is somehow going to get a $15MM/year contract!! Bank on it!!!!


/sarcasm

It's just a ridiculous argument, and I'm a big Brock fan. The only chance he (or any backup QB has), of getting a formidable offer that would make him think about leaving Denver, is if Manning get's hurt and Brock gets significant playing time in meaningful games and blows up, and if that unfortunately does (god hope it doesn't), Manning isn't going to finish his contract out anyways.

I love Manning, but he isn't playing well into his 40's.

[Joel]

There will be plenty of film on Osweiler by 2015 and if he continues to progress and get better lots of teams are going to be interested in him because he's experienced and has been in the league for 4 years.
I don't think many other teams tape opponent PRACTICES, and that's about the only time Oz is ever on the field. If what they said about Mannings tireless practice habits in Indy eating up all the first team reps is true, Oz probably doesn't see the field much PERIOD. After Adam Gase, he's got the cushiest job in the NFL. Not a lotta "experience" though.

[Cugel]

Steve Young waited till his 7th. Actually, no: He started most of his rookie year and played so awfully the Bucs finished dead last, so they decided he was a bum, traded him to SF and drafted Testaverde #1 overall (a classic case of a poor workman blaming his tools; Hugh Culverhouse dying so his son sold the team to the Glazers was the best thing that ever happened to Tampa.) Remember, Young was TRADED; he looked good every time Montana got hurt, but SF still managed to keep him on the roster as a backup for 5 years.

It was a different universe in those days before the salary cap. The 49ers could pay Steve Young to sit on the bench. Nobody would do that today. Nobody could afford to pay their backup QB starting money.


Oz has never gotten that kind of playing time as a backup (and, Heaven willing, never will) nor looked as good the few times he did play. Whether we WANT to keep him on the bench 5 years is debatable, but there's no reason to think we CAN'T.

I personally am not a Brock Osweiler fan at all. I still hate the pick. But, I assume he will get a chance to start at least 1 regular season game over the next 2 seasons. If not, then the only tape on him will be the pre-season.

If he continues to develop that will be enough for some team to offer him what you and all these fans will think is a "ridiculous" amount of money. Starting money. Same kind of contract they offered Matt Cassel who frankly never showed as much as Osweiler does now.

Yeah, he started for a season but he wasn't that good in N.E. with all those weapons and utterly sucked in KC. Yet he got $15 million.

Teams are desperate for a quality starter. He doesn't have to be great. Osweiler fills that bill. It's clear that Elway wants to keep him, but can't afford to pay him the kind of money that he'll command as a starter.

Sure, his contract could be incentive laden, based on the number of starts he makes. And the team will probably write in a termination option after year one to protect themselves. But someone is going to offer him a starting job. And he's going to take it.

Watch and see.


If Manning's still playing 10 months after he turns 40, he and everyone but our opponents will wish he weren't. I'm dubious Oz is his successor, but he's the best we've got until/unless we draft someone who looks better (which I wouldn't bet against in the next year or two.)

Tell that to Manning. :coffee: He's stated publicly that he intends to play out his contract, and that expires after the 2016 season, not before. I see no reason not to believe him, and no reason to think he's suddenly going to suck 2 years from now.

I've given all the reasons he could continue to play into his 40's. George Blanda did it back during the day when they were actually allowed to hit QBs. Now the QB is protected in teh pocket, and nobody more so than Manning who gets rid of the ball so quickly. Manning doesn't depend on his arm strength, so he can't really lose it and he's not going to suddenly forget everything he knows about football either. Nobody has given 1 sensible reason he can't continue to play as long as he wants.

[Simple Jaded]

If Osweiler is available and the draft has one or two good prospects plus a bunch of Manziels/Geno Smiths, who do you think teams would wanna take a chance on, the dude who has years of growing pains ahead of him or the dude that interned under a master in a historic offense?

[Simple Jaded]

Too many essays in this thread.

You don't like Mexicans?

[Northman]

The key word is "modest." That's where your entire argument falls to the ground. Brock Osweiler right now is probably better than a number of starting QBs in the league. In 2015 someone will offer him starter money to go elsewhere and he will.

Watch and see for yourself.

You do realize you are totally contradicting yourself dont you?

On one hand you state that Brock will be wanted by other teams and by your statement above you have already proclaimed him better than most QB's. The problem is we really dont know if he is better than most QB's because we havent seen him play in enough real time action. But, hypothetically if he is "better" as you claim than the Denver Broncos would be absolute MORONS to let him walk. Finding franchise QB's is not easy and if Brock is as good as you say it would make zero sense to let him walk.

[Joel]

It was a different universe in those days before the salary cap. The 49ers could pay Steve Young to sit on the bench. Nobody would do that today. Nobody could afford to pay their backup QB starting money.
That's a fair point; stuff like that's why SF was one of the big reasons the cap was created (their bidding war with Dallas for Deion, Charles Haley and Ken Norton Jr. being the other.)


Teams are desperate for a quality starter. He doesn't have to be great. Osweiler fills that bill. It's clear that Elway wants to keep him, but can't afford to pay him the kind of money that he'll command as a starter.

Sure, his contract could be incentive laden, based on the number of starts he makes. And the team will probably write in a termination option after year one to protect themselves. But someone is going to offer him a starting job. And he's going to take it.

Watch and see.
*shrugs* I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted someone else, cut Oz and mooted the point well before 2016. The closer Manning gets to retirement, the closer we are to needing a starter AND backup, and I'm not convinced Oz qualifies as anything but the latter, or that Dysert qualifies as either. If not, I expect we'll make Oz an offer when his contract ends, but it won't be eye-popping, so it's quite conceivable he bolts for more and a chance to start. Frankly, I'm not terribly concerned either way, because I doubt Oz is a franchise QB.


Tell that to Manning. :coffee: He's stated publicly that he intends to play out his contract, and that expires after the 2016 season, not before. I see no reason not to believe him, and no reason to think he's suddenly going to suck 2 years from now.

I've given all the reasons he could continue to play into his 40's. George Blanda did it back during the day when they were actually allowed to hit QBs. Now the QB is protected in teh pocket, and nobody more so than Manning who gets rid of the ball so quickly. Manning doesn't depend on his arm strength, so he can't really lose it and he's not going to suddenly forget everything he knows about football either. Nobody has given 1 sensible reason he can't continue to play as long as he wants.
Blandas starting QB career ended at 39, when he left my Oilers; he was purely a kicker the last decade of his career, only starting at QB ONE GAME in his last NINE YEARS, and throwing <50 passes in all but one season. So as a starting QB, Manning would match Blanda next season; after that, well, who pays $20 million/year for a backup?

Manning's made a career of augmenting unremarkable power with knowledge, vision, anticipation and exhaustive practice, so he can extend his warranty more than most—but since he's ALWAYS done that to a great extent, how much extra does that give him? Staubach and Montana are as smart as ever, but no one's beating down their door seeking savvy vets in their 60s.

[Ravage!!!]

Not to mention Manning is playing in an era of football where you can't touch the QB, even if they finally do get a chance. Manning just doesn't take hits, which has extended his career, and will extend his career longer than most. He's not relying on his legs, and he's not taking the "after throw shots" that QBs used to take on EVERY play.

[TXBRONC]

That's a fair point; stuff like that's why SF was one of the big reasons the cap was created (their bidding war with Dallas for Deion, Charles Haley and Ken Norton Jr. being the other.)


*shrugs* I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted someone else, cut Oz and mooted the point well before 2016. The closer Manning gets to retirement, the closer we are to needing a starter AND backup, and I'm not convinced Oz qualifies as anything but the latter, or that Dysert qualifies as either. If not, I expect we'll make Oz an offer when his contract ends, but it won't be eye-popping, so it's quite conceivable he bolts for more and a chance to start. Frankly, I'm not terribly concerned either way, because I doubt Oz is a franchise QB.


Blandas starting QB career ended at 39, when he left my Oilers; he was purely a kicker the last decade of his career, only starting at QB ONE GAME in his last NINE YEARS, and throwing <50 passes in all but one season. So as a starting QB, Manning would match Blanda next season; after that, well, who pays $20 million/year for a backup?

Manning's made a career of augmenting unremarkable power with knowledge, vision, anticipation and exhaustive practice, so he can extend his warranty more than most—but since he's ALWAYS done that to a great extent, how much extra does that give him? Staubach and Montana are as smart as ever, but no one's beating down their door seeking savvy vets in their 60s.

Blanda was also the Raiders back quarterback from the time Raiders picked him in 1967-1975. He was their primary back for most of that time last. The last four years of his career you can say he was primarily a kicker but even so he still registered some passing attempts.

[Joel]

Blanda was also the Raiders back quarterback from the time Raiders picked him in 1967-1975. He was their primary back for most of that time last.
Exactly: We won't pay Manning $20 million/year to backup Oz nor anyone else, but if he DID stick around to play backup in 2015, he could do it for Oz as easily as for anyone else.


The last four years of his career you can say he was primarily a kicker but even so he still registered some passing attempts.
Right; in nine years, he totalled 235 attempts: Only 11 more than it takes to be eligible for a SEASON passing title. Was then, too; the NFL decided '70s QBs had to average 16 att/game to qualify, and 16X14=224, but 16X16=256, and teams pass far more now, so the NFL should raise the eligibility floor. Blanda averaged 2 att/game in Oakland.

Anyway, point is we won't pay ANYONE $20 million/year for 32 att/year. That's $625,000/pass—BAD passes. It's a different era, alright: The cap won't let teams pay backups $20 milllion/year.

Manning's not sticking around to play BACKUP at ANY price though; when he can't start, he'll quit. Blanda started all of ONE game after 39: Don't expect more from Manning.

[Dapper Dan]

Not to mention Manning is playing in an era of football where you can't touch the QB, even if they finally do get a chance. Manning just doesn't take hits, which has extended his career, and will extend his career longer than most. He's not relying on his legs, and he's not taking the "after throw shots" that QBs used to take on EVERY play.

Yup. And no one appears to be putting bounties on him either. :lol:

[Joel]

Yup. And no one appears to be putting bounties on him either. :lol:
Well, there's that OTHER SB he lost; if they put bounties on Favre, they surely did on Manning. Seems like half the players and coaches want to turn the NFL into an anything goes street fight while half the owners want to turn into flag football. Pity we can't find a happy medium, a rough full contact sport where players aren't coached players to cripple each other with cheap shots.

I don't see why this is so complicated: Injuries are part of mortal life; even baseball and tennis can't nerf them out of existence with rules. Patton survived the invasions of North Africa and Sicily along with the Battle of the Bulge—the whole Second World War—only to be killed by a CAR ACCIDENT after fighting stopped. That's life, and death; it's an assumption of risk that goes with participating, and we can only minimize and mitigate, never eliminate it.

There's all the difference in the world between such in/accidental injuries and a dozens of guys sitting around plotting ways to kneecap opponents without getting flags, fines and suspensions. Fundamentally altering the game to ban their current deliberate practiced methods does nothing but prompt them to think up new ones. Intentional injury's the core problem; banning particular MEANS is needless if we ban intent, and worthless if we don't, so pointless either way.

That's why the NFL lowering the boom on Bountygate was not only just, but necessary, and it's frankly disgusting the players union responsible for defending player welfare raised Hell about it. Faced with undeniable PROOF of INSTITUTIONALIZED headhunting, the NFL meted out harsh justice—which the players union as a whole filed and won a lawsuit to overturn. That raises not only the question of just how much the union looks our for players welfare, but suggest headhunting is far more institutionalized than just one team represents.

I realize all that's tangential to Mannings future, but it IS another reason for him not to keep playing indefinitely with a surgically repaired spine.