Tony Scheffler retires because of concussions

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Lions cut Tony Scheffler last year after he missed some time with concussions.

And now he’s calling it a career because of them.

Scheffler told the Associated Press he was retiring from the NFL after suffering three concussions in the last four years.

rest - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/11/tony-scheffler-retires-because-of-concussions/

[Shazam!]

I saw that too. Very unfortunate. I always liked him and was hoping he would've been here for awhile.

[MileHighCrew]

too bad, he was someone I liked to cheer for. Not a great talent but good hands and I enjoyed watching him play. Wish him all the best in the future!

[Northman]

Understandable. Bad break for the guy. I enjoyed his play while here in Denver.

[wcben]

McDumbass traded him for a fifth round pick. FU McDaniels!!

[BroncoWave]

McDumbass traded him for a fifth round pick. FU McDaniels!!

Getting a 5th round pick for a 2nd string TE is not all that bad of a deal.

[wcben]

2nd string? He was the starter no? Don't tell me trading away Marshall, Cutler, and Hillis were good moves too

[Ravage!!!]

2nd string? He was the starter no? Don't tell me trading away Marshall, Cutler, and Hillis were good moves too

BTB is the fighting white knight for McDoosh.

[BroncoWave]

2nd string? He was the starter no? Don't tell me trading away Marshall, Cutler, and Hillis were good moves too

He was never more than a 2nd stringer in Detroit. He started for us because we didn't have a good TE.

[BroncoWave]

BTB is the fighting white knight for McDoosh.

Sticking to the actual topic instead of the posters making the points, my argument on this trade is completely valid. He was a mediocre TE who started on a team without good TE depth and was a backup on a team with a good TE. A 5th round pick is probably right on the value of that type of player. Career per season averages of 32 catches, 400 yards, and 2.8 TD. The facts are what they are.

We have 3, maybe 4 TEs with equal or better talent than Schef. If Fox traded one of them for a 5th right now, no one would bat an eye.

[BroncoWave]

Marshall, Cutler, and Hillis were good moves too

The only one of these 3 trades that was objectively bad was the Cutler one. Usually not the best of ideas to trade away a young franchise QB. Given that, we didn't get horrible value for him. Still probably not a great trade to make.

Marshall would have been traded by any team in the league at the time as big of a team cancer has he become. Even Miami shipped him away pretty quickly given his antics. He has turned his life around now it would seemed, but at the time he looked like TO 2.0. Denver had no choice but to deal him.

Anyone who knows me knows my position on Hillis. He is a total scrub who we were lucky to even get a draft pick for at all. He's on like his 3rd or 4th team since Denver now. No one seems to be too eager to ever keep him.

[Bosco]

Well, bye.

Not surprising that the market for douchebag tight ends who never made use of their physical skills is basically nil.

[wcben]

Regardless of your feelings on Hillis he had that monstrous season while Maroney was going for negative yardage

[tomjonesrocks]

The only one of these 3 trades that was objectively bad was the Cutler one. Usually not the best of ideas to trade away a young franchise QB. Given that, we didn't get horrible value for him. Still probably not a great trade to make. Marshall would have been traded by any team in the league at the time as big of a team cancer has he become. Even Miami shipped him away pretty quickly given his antics. He has turned his life around now it would seemed, but at the time he looked like TO 2.0. Denver had no choice but to deal him. Anyone who knows me knows my position on Hillis. He is a total scrub who we were lucky to even get a draft pick for at all. He's on like his 3rd or 4th team since Denver now. No one seems to be too eager to ever keep him.

Don't agree whatsoever. Marshall could have been teamed with Lloyd which at that time would have been one of the best 1-2s in the league.

Not to mention the Alfonso Smith fiasco and declining to take any compensation from WA to not take Orakpo.

Say what you want about Hillis' short window, he was on the Madden cover. Maroney could have and should have been Marshawn Lynch.

Dude was a buffoon.

[TXBRONC]

Don't agree whatsoever. Marshall could have been teamed with Lloyd which at that time would have been one of the best 1-2s in the league.

Not to mention the Alfonso Smith fiasco and declining to take any compensation from WA to not take Orakpo.

Say what you want about Hillis' short window, he was on the Madden cover. Maroney could have and should have been Marshawn Lynch.

Dude was a buffoon.

Buffoon is an accurate description. Taking a blocking tight end in the second round is also par for the course.

[wcben]

Richard Quinn ^^ smh didn't McDumbass trade a future #1 for him too? Or was that another rubish pick?

[BroncoWave]

Don't agree whatsoever. Marshall could have been teamed with Lloyd which at that time would have been one of the best 1-2s in the league.

Not to mention the Alfonso Smith fiasco and declining to take any compensation from WA to not take Orakpo.

Say what you want about Hillis' short window, he was on the Madden cover. Maroney could have and should have been Marshawn Lynch.

Dude was a buffoon.

He was on the Madden cover is your argument for why Hillis is a good player? Really? That carries more weight than 4 different teams dumping him in a 5 year span?3

And I'm not debating Marshall's talent. He is obviously elite. But I think you are forgetting how much of a team cancer he was becoming. There were reports that Shanny was considering flat out cutting him. And the team he was traded to, Miami, dumped him too. It was obvious that early in his career his off-the-field and locker room issues made him more trouble than he was worth.

[Canmore]

Don't agree whatsoever. Marshall could have been teamed with Lloyd which at that time would have been one of the best 1-2s in the league.

Not to mention the Alfonso Smith fiasco and declining to take any compensation from WA to not take Orakpo.

Say what you want about Hillis' short window, he was on the Madden cover. Maroney could have and should have been Marshawn Lynch.

Dude was a buffoon.

Don't confuse BTB with the facts.

[MOtorboat]

I think two things:

A.) It's an absolute shame anyone is retiring because of concussions.

B.) All of McDaniels, Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall and Hillis had parts in that disaster. Every single one of them. And none of them has experienced any success afterwards. That should tell you everything you need to know.

[Northman]

A.) It's an absolute shame anyone is retiring because of concussions.

True that. But we knew it wouldnt be long before someone slammed the guy because he wasnt a HOF.


B.) And none of them has experienced any success afterwards. That should tell you everything you need to know.

Depends on what you classify as success. Cutler has done pretty well, just not gotten over that final hump. But Marshall has gone 7 straight years with over a 1000 yds receiving while playing for 3 separate teams. That too me is success as a player. Say what you want about his character the dude is a elite baller who is one of the best receivers in the league.

[Ravage!!!]

Marshall is in the top 3-4 WRs in the NFL. Tell me again how he hasn't had success, because I want to write that down.

[tomjonesrocks]

He was on the Madden cover is your argument for why Hillis is a good player? Really? That carries more weight than 4 different teams dumping him in a 5 year span?

He was a one year wonder, as backs that run like he does absorb so much punishment usually don't hold up--but in that one year he gained 1,177 yards to go with 11 TDs for one of the worst franchises in the league. I think that alone removes him from "total scrub" status, and Denver could have used that production even if only for one year.

Remind me again how Brady Quinn minus a 6th was more beneficial?

[TXBRONC]

Richard Quinn ^^ smh didn't McDumbass trade a future #1 for him too? Or was that another rubish pick?

It was Alphonso Smith the who McDaniels moved traded a future number one pick.

[BroncoNut]

BTB is the fighting white knight for McDoosh.

and tubby carries his ballsack apparently. did you see that hi'five? wtf?

but anyway, I did like Tony while here, then he got traded to the Lions and I didn't follow him much. I guess I rooted because of his big 10 affiliation. Michigan or MSU I believe. anyway, good luck to him, I hope he got out in time

[BroncoWave]

If you just look at the trade objectively, getting rid of a TE with Scheffler's talent/production for a 5th round pick is a pretty fair trade on both sides. I don't think that's an unfair stance to take. Pro bowl players command 1st round picks, solid starters tend to command second and thirds, and when you get into fringe starters/decent backups, you are talking 4th-5th round picks for those guys. Given this, Scehfter got about the value in a trade that a player of his level should.

[Ravage!!!]

If you just look at the trade objectively, getting rid of a TE with Scheffler's talent/production for a 5th round pick is a pretty fair trade on both sides. I don't think that's an unfair stance to take. Pro bowl players command 1st round picks, solid starters tend to command second and thirds, and when you get into fringe starters/decent backups, you are talking 4th-5th round picks for those guys. Given this, Scehfter got about the value in a trade that a player of his level should.

He wasn't a fringe starter when he was a Bronco. He was a productive player that was getting better. He was traded because he didn't kiss McDicks ass and the midget wanted to be sure everyone looked UP to him. He lost the locker room the moment he traded Cutler, and continued to lose it with the way he treated Marshall. Players like Scheff and Hillis didn't hide the fact they weren't happy. But McDork didn't know how to handle people. Hell, he coudln't even work with our DC and HE bolted.

You can say "he wasn't great" Allllll you want, but the point is that he was a productive piece of an offense that was growing to be VERy good. Piece by Piece, McDaniels trashed it... starting from the top, and working his way down.

You can make your attempts to defend that if you want, but the defenses aren't objective any more than the distaste for that douche. You want to BELIEVE your stance is objective because it makes you feel justified in your opinion.

[BroncoWave]

I gave Scheffler's production, you gave a bunch of anti-McD conjecture. His production matched about what you would expect from a fringe starter/good backup. A 5th round pick was fair value for him. And obviously McD was right about him, because he started regressing in Detroit. And it's not like he was on a team with no offensive talent. He got to play with a very talented young QB and the best WR in football to take up 2-3 defenders focusing on him. A really good TE would put up massive numbers in their offense.

[tubby]

Throw in the fact that he was a malcontent puzzy and the 5th rounder was borderline robbery. He sucked. And it was Western Michigan but close enough. #micdrop

[Northman]

because he started regressing in Detroit. And it's not like he was on a team with no offensive talent. He got to play with a very talented young QB and the best WR in football to take up 2-3 defenders focusing on him. A really good TE would put up massive numbers in their offense.

This is disingenuous at best.

Sheff was splitting time with Pettigrew. Unfortunately for both of them they have been plagued by injuries but when either started and was healthy both were very productive for the Lions. Unfortunately as is the case a lot of times when you have that much talent there are only so many balls that can be thrown around.

[TXBRONC]

Throw in the fact that he was a malcontent puzzy and the 5th rounder was borderline robbery. He sucked. And it was Western Michigan but close enough. #micdrop

I don't remember him being a malcontent. I do remember McDaniels picking public fights with him and several other players. Who do did Denver take with that 5th round pick? Didn't Denver give up a 5th rounder in the package of picks that they sent to Ravens so that they move back into the first round to take Tebow? If that's the case then Denver didn't rob the Ravens it's the other way around.

[BroncoWave]

Who they took with the 5th round pick doesn't really matter when evaluating if a 5th round pick is fair compensation, which it most definitely was.

[Ravage!!!]

Who they took with the 5th round pick doesn't really matter when evaluating if a 5th round pick is fair compensation, which it most definitely was.

In your opinion. You don't want to see what we got in return because that doesn't work well for your argument.

The "most certainly" part...is YOUR opinion. At the time, when McDork was just shipping players out for the sake of shipping them out, it most CERTAINLY was not a good decision and we weren't well compensated. That absolutely goes into factor.

[BroncoWave]

If we traded a decent starter like, say, Rahim Moore for a first round pick would you say it's a good trade? Given our current secondary depth, I'd say probably so. Now let's say that that first rounder wound up being a horrible, Ryan Leaf-like bust. Does that suddenly make it a bad trade to have traded Moore for a first rounder? No it doesn't. Drafting and trading are two completely separate transactions. You can make a great trade for a draft pick but then flub the pick. It doesn't mean you didn't get good value for your trade.

[tubby]

Guys McDaniel's was a total abomination. Lets not let that inflate Tony Scheffler for more than what he was.

[BroncoWave]

Guys McDaniel's was a total abomination. Lets not let that inflate Tony Scheffler for more than what he was.

That seems to be the problem when evaluating individual moves that McD made. Obviously he made several bad ones, but people let that stain their view and think ALL of his moves were bad. I will freely admit that McD made some horrible moves like trading up for Alphonso Smith and picking Dick Quinn so high. But some people will NEVER admit that McD ever made anything even resembling a decent roster move.

[TXBRONC]

Who they took with the 5th round pick doesn't really matter when evaluating if a 5th round pick is fair compensation, which it most definitely was.

Yes it does matter and no it wasn't fair compensation.

[TXBRONC]

In your opinion. You don't want to see what we got in return because that doesn't work well for your argument.

The "most certainly" part...is YOUR opinion. At the time, when McDork was just shipping players out for the sake of shipping them out, it most CERTAINLY was not a good decision and we weren't well compensated. That absolutely goes into factor.

Bingo.

[Canmore]

That seems to be the problem when evaluating individual moves that McD made. Obviously he made several bad ones, but people let that stain their view and think ALL of his moves were bad. I will freely admit that McD made some horrible moves like trading up for Alphonso Smith and picking Dick Quinn so high. But some people will NEVER admit that McD ever made anything even resembling a decent roster move.

McD was a complete and total train wreck.

[MOtorboat]

Tony Gonzalez, one of the best two tight ends to ever live, garnered a second round pick. I don't think Tony Scheffler was worth anything higher than a fifth.

[TXBRONC]

I guess Gonzales being 30 plus years of age would have had nothing to with what the Chiefs got for him.

[MOtorboat]

I guess Gonzales being 30 plus years of age would had nothing to with what the Chiefs got for him.

He then had five all pro years in Atlanta. A fifth for Scheffler is just fine.

[TXBRONC]

He then had five all pro years in Atlanta. A fifth for Scheffler is just fine.

No it wasn't.

[BroncoWave]

No it wasn't.

I was on the fence about this, but this uncrackable logic just convinced me!

[wcben]

Ughh F U McDooshDaniels!! I just reread the timeline on joshmcdanielssucks.com and I'm pissed off! I forgot about that Smith pick that could have yielded EARL THOMAS but McDumbass probably would have ****** that up too. Oh and F the cheatriots! Someone give me another beer

[Simple Jaded]

Ughh F U McDooshDaniels!! I just reread the timeline on joshmcdanielssucks.com and I'm pissed off! I forgot about that Smith pick that could have yielded EARL THOMAS but McDumbass probably would have ****** that up too. Oh and F the cheatriots! Someone give me another beer

My favorite was when Leper Messiah was offered a high 3rd round pick for a player he didn't want and he said no.

[Simple Jaded]

Guys McDaniel's was a total abomination. Lets not let that inflate Tony Scheffler for more than what he was.

He was a perfectly good receiving TE that didn't need to be replaced, the problem was Doogie didn't have any need for receiving TE's until it was time to copy what the Patriot Way was doing. . .again.

[MOtorboat]

What would you pay for 38 receptions and 3 touchdowns?

[Northman]

What would you pay for 38 receptions and 3 touchdowns?

Clearly a 1st.



On a serious note i would of given up at least a 3rd for Sheff at that time because the talent was there. At the end of the day the Lions got more out of Sheff than Denver did with the compensation so yea, Denver lost out on the trade.

[BroncoWave]

Clearly a 1st.



On a serious note i would of given up at least a 3rd for Sheff at that time because the talent was there. At the end of the day the Lions got more out of Sheff than Denver did with the compensation so yea, Denver lost out on the trade.

Tony Gonzalez only fetched a second. No team in their right mind would give up a 3rd for Scheff.

[Northman]

Tony Gonzalez only fetched a second. No team in their right mind would give up a 3rd for Scheff.

As already noted TG was also older and had more wear on him.

*Edit*

Looking at their numbers for both players in their first 4 years it wouldnt be hard to see that Sheff had a lot of potential.

Sheff: (4 Years) 138 recs, 1896 yds, 14 TDs, 57 games played, (28 games started) (2nd round pick)

Gonzo: (4 Years) 261 recs, 3041 yds, 24 TDs, 63 games played, (63 games started) (1st round pick)

[TXBRONC]

I was on the fence about this, but this uncrackable logic just convinced me!

You haven't provided any logic at all.

[BroncoJoe]

Good grief. Wish him well, and move on already.

[BroncoWave]

I was on the fence about this, but this uncrackable logic just convinced me!

You haven't provided any logic at all.

I've provided plenty of logic. I've given his stats and referenced a trade of a much better player. All you've done is provide your typical "OMGZ McDaniels is teh worst1!!1!" tripe.

[tomjonesrocks]

The only one of these 3 trades that was objectively bad was the Cutler one.
Obviously he made several bad ones (snip)

Hmm...

In any case, IMO it's true a 5th for Scheffler wasn't that bad a value. It's just the trade was totally needless, similar to the Hillis move.

[Magnificent Seven]

Retired from that? It sucks.

[BroncoWave]

Hmm...

In any case, IMO it's true a 5th for Scheffler wasn't that bad a value. It's just the trade was totally needless, similar to the Hillis move.

Nice try, but try to use those quotes in context. My first quote was referring to the 4 trades of Cutler, Hillis, Sheff, and Marshall. The second quote was referring to draft picks as well.

[Bosco]

So much hang wringing over a guy who was never even a starter in his entire career. If this was any other forum, I'd be surprised.

[TXBRONC]

I've provided plenty of logic. I've given his stats and referenced a trade of a much better player. All you've done is provide your typical "OMGZ McDaniels is teh worst1!!1!" tripe.

No you pulled some dumb senario out your butt and expect everyone believe it and they don't.

[Canmore]

The next post you make about the McDaniels era that is rooted in logic and not in your deep-seeded hatred for him will be your first.

The multitude of idiotic moves by McMoron is legendary.

[BroncoWave]

Here is another example proving my point on the trade value of tight ends:

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/6811546/chicago-bears-trade-greg-olsen-carolina-panthers

They were each traded 4 years into their careers, so this is a better comparison than Gonzalez.

At the time Olsen was traded, his season averages were 49 rec, 495 yds, 5 TD

When Scheffler was traded, he averaged 35 rec, 474 yds, 3.5 TD.

So while their stats are relatively close, Olsen was more productive across the board and he went for a 3rd rounder. So MAYBE you could argue that Scheffler could have been gotten for a 4th, but that's pretty much the ceiling.

[BroncoWave]

And too add to my Olsen point, he had a worse QB throwing him the ball, making the difference in production that much more impressive.

[Canmore]

Here is another example proving my point on the trade value of tight ends:

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/6811546/chicago-bears-trade-greg-olsen-carolina-panthers

They were each traded 4 years into their careers, so this is a better comparison than Gonzalez.

At the time Olsen was traded, his season averages were 49 rec, 495 yds, 5 TD

When Scheffler was traded, he averaged 35 rec, 474 yds, 3.5 TD.

So while their stats are relatively close, Olsen was more productive across the board and he went for a 3rd rounder. So MAYBE you could argue that Scheffler could have been gotten for a 4th, but that's pretty much the ceiling.

Tony wasn't traded for a fourth. He was traded for a fifth. How does this help your revisionist history of the McMoron era. :confused:

[BroncoWave]

Tony wasn't traded for a fourth. He was traded for a fifth. How does this help your revisionist history of the McMoron era. :confused:

I'm conceding that maybe we could have gotten a pick one round better than we did, bit that that doesn't make the trade the highway robber that some on here want to make it out to be. The difference between a 4th and 5th round pick is almost nothing.

[Canmore]

I'm conceding that maybe we could have gotten a pick one round better than we did, bit that that doesn't make the trade the highway robber that some on here want to make it out to be. The difference between a 4th and 5th round pick is almost nothing.

I don't think one round is nil. It's just another gaff in an avalanche of bad moves.

[BroncoWave]

I don't think one round is nil. It's just another gaff in an avalanche of bad moves.

My main point is that Olsen, who is clearly a better, went for a third. So Scheffler clearly wasn't going to garner that high of a pick. That makes the highest possible round you could argue a 4th. That doesn't mean we could have gotten a 4th for him, it's just the upper limit of what you could reasonably argue.

Getting a 4th for him would have been a great trade by Denver. Getting a 5th is probably pretty equal value on both sides. Getting a 6th or lower probably would have been a win for the other team.

So was is the best trade ever made? No. But does that mean we got the short end of the stick? Absolutely not.

[BroncoWave]

You know what I also find funny? People against this trade will gleefully point out how big of a bust the draft pick we got for him was. But when you mention how Scheffler's career also went downhill in Detroit, no one wants to talk about that. I guess what happened after the trade only counts if it makes McDaniels look bad, right?

[Canmore]

My main point is that Olsen, who is clearly a better, went for a third. So Scheffler clearly wasn't going to garner that high of a pick. That makes the highest possible round you could argue a 4th. That doesn't mean we could have gotten a 4th for him, it's just the upper limit of what you could reasonably argue.

Getting a 4th for him would have been a great trade by Denver. Getting a 5th is probably pretty equal value on both sides. Getting a 6th or lower probably would have been a win for the other team.

So was is the best trade ever made? No. But does that mean we got the short end of the stick? Absolutely not.

Do I think we came up short on the deal? Yes. By a lot? Probably not. It certainly wasn't on par with the Alphonso Smith fiasco. You point this out like this was a good thing by McMoron. This was as good as it got with him. He didn't get fleeced, just a little taken advantage of.

[Simple Jaded]

So much hang wringing over a guy who was never even a starter in his entire career. If this was any other forum, I'd be surprised.

Reminds me of all the hand wringing over all the ridiculously stupid moves of the single worst HC/GM in Denver Broncos history.

[wcben]

**** the patriots! We're going to beat them in Gillette this year!!! @NEP!!!

[Bosco]

Reminds me of all the hand wringing over all the ridiculously stupid moves of the single worst HC/GM in Denver Broncos history.

Despite all that, we can thank McDaniels for single handedly ridding this team of two of the league's bigger douchebags (three, if you count Scheffler but he was never an important enough player to get much recognition) in the span of 18 months.

[Northman]

So while their stats are relatively close, Olsen was more productive across the board and he went for a 3rd rounder. So MAYBE you could argue that Scheffler could have been gotten for a 4th, but that's pretty much the ceiling.

And that was pretty much my take on it. For me Sheff should of easily garnered a 3rd, a fifth was just way to low for a guy who had that much potential.

[Northman]

My main point is that Olsen, who is clearly a better, went for a third.

Hard to say if Olsen is/was better. Olsen also started a few more games than Sheff did so his numbers will show up a bit better than Sheff's. Im quite content that you have conceded that you think Sheff could of garnered a third as that is far more reasonable than the fifth that we settled with. So, in this discussion i win. :D

[Northman]

You know what I also find funny? People against this trade will gleefully point out how big of a bust the draft pick we got for him was. But when you mention how Scheffler's career also went downhill in Detroit, no one wants to talk about that. I guess what happened after the trade only counts if it makes McDaniels look bad, right?


Well, there are two problems with your stance here.

1) Pettigrew was a first round pick and the "primary" TE for Detroit. Sheff was the backup in case Pettigrew went down which happened from time to time.

2) Sheff had his own injury problems, but being injured doesnt mean you suck as a football player. Its just plain bad luck.

[Northman]

Despite all that, we can thank McDaniels for single handedly ridding this team of two of the league's bigger douchebags (three, if you count Scheffler but he was never an important enough player to get much recognition) in the span of 18 months.

4 if you count McD himself, thank god Bowlen isnt an idiot and kept him around any longer.

[Dreadnought]

Despite all that, we can thank McDaniels for single handedly ridding this team of two of the league's bigger douchebags (three, if you count Scheffler but he was never an important enough player to get much recognition) in the span of 18 months.

I thank McDaniels for absolutely nothing. Not to mention your point is flat out absurd, as in, clownish.

[Simple Jaded]

Despite all that, we can thank McDaniels for single handedly ridding this team of two of the league's bigger douchebags (three, if you count Scheffler but he was never an important enough player to get much recognition) in the span of 18 months.

Ndomakong Suh is a douchebag, Richard Sherman is a DB, if you think the Broncos and their fans owe McDaniels an ounce of gratitude for wiping his ass with their best players you are an idiot. You're not an idiot are you?

Plus it's not like he traded Cutler for Matthew Stafford (like he likely could have) or Marshall for DT, he traded for Cutler for Kyle Orton (!!! ???) and then somehow turned Marshall into Tim freakin Tebow, the dudes incompetence was epic and staggering. It can't possibly be done any worse if you tried, and some would suggest he was trying.

[Ravage!!!]

I love how the "proponents" are using KNOWN info to base their opinion on, and not taking into account of "at the time" it was a big loss for this offense. Doesn't matter how he turned out. A lot of factors were involved in that. The point was that AT THE TIME he was a bronco, he was a piece to an up-and-comng offense that was historically dismantled because of a mental midget with a severe napoleon complex was at the helm.

[TXBRONC]

There isn't anything to thank McDaniels for. I do however thank Bowlen for firing that douchebag.

[TXBRONC]

Ndomakong Suh is a douchebag, Richard Sherman is a DB, if you think the Broncos and their fans owe McDaniels an ounce of gratitude for wiping his ass with their best players you are an idiot. You're not an idiot are you?

Plus it's not like he traded Cutler for Matthew Stafford (like he likely could have) or Marshall for DT, he traded for Cutler for Kyle Orton (!!! ???) and then somehow turned Marshall into Tim freakin Tebow, the dudes incompetence was epic and staggering. It can't possibly be done any worse if you tried, and some would suggest he was trying.

McDaniels wanted to succeed but his overhyped sense of importance, his inability to get along with anyone in the organization (literally), and his lack of character caused his downfall.

[Simple Jaded]

Yeah, it's sad when a coach/GM can thank an entirely new regime for what little success that came from his tenure.

[slim]

You guys make me want to rethink my stance on abortion and maybe even genocide.

[Simple Jaded]

I should run for office.

[dogfish]

lol! you have to be a truly dedicated contrarian to allow yourself to become a josh mcdaniels ballwasher. . . shameless. . . shameless. . .

[BroncoWave]

I love how the "proponents" are using KNOWN info to base their opinion on, and not taking into account of "at the time" it was a big loss for this offense. Doesn't matter how he turned out. A lot of factors were involved in that. The point was that AT THE TIME he was a bronco, he was a piece to an up-and-comng offense that was historically dismantled because of a mental midget with a severe napoleon complex was at the helm.

So then you would agree that it's meaningless who we drafted with the pick we got for Scheffler, because AT THE TIME of the trade, we had no idea who how the draft would shake out or what players would be available to us.

[Nomad]

Good grief. Wish him well, and move on already.

:lol: