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Denver Native (Carol)
05-14-2014, 02:37 PM
While conceding initial disappointment over the position switch, Orlando Franklin believes left guard could be the right move.

The 315-pound Bronco said Wednesday that the transition from right tackle is going well, but he won't get a better read until full contact drills.

"When I first heard about it, you get disappointed. But as long as I am on the field and one of the best five, I am happy with that," Franklin said at Dove Valley headquarters.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25761049/broncos-orlando-franklin-makes-transition-left-guard

G_Money
05-14-2014, 02:55 PM
Nice props to Chris Kuper in that article. The difficulty of playing with Manning is why I doubt Schofield will be starting the season at RT. Odds are it'll be Clark. We gave him an extension, after all.

Hopefully Schofield can learn fast and push him, while Franklin demolishes interior linemen at guard.

~G

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-14-2014, 05:55 PM
Franklin 315 pounds? My butt...

Simple Jaded
05-15-2014, 12:58 AM
Franklin 315 pounds? My butt...

No possible way, he's not 6'-7" either.

Davii
05-15-2014, 02:00 AM
Good read, but yeah I agree, dude's a monster. He craps 315lb turds.

DenBronx
05-15-2014, 04:34 PM
Still think it's a mistake to move Franklin from RT. This is one move I am not on board with. By fixing one hole we created another one with an unknown at RT. We don't know how Clark or anyone else will do at RT or if Franklin will be ok at LG. I liked the bookends of Clady and Franklin, two monsters on the edges that were very good at protecting the QB.

Shazam!
05-15-2014, 04:51 PM
Still think it's a mistake to move Franklin from RT. This is one move I am not on board with. By fixing one hole we created another one with an unknown at RT. We don't know how Clark or anyone else will do at RT or if Franklin will be ok at LG. I liked the bookends of Clady and Franklin, two monsters on the edges that were very good at protecting the QB.

I'm fine with whatever moves they wanna make. My last time watching this team was the OL and Franklin in particular getting smoked.

broncohead
05-15-2014, 07:44 PM
Still think it's a mistake to move Franklin from RT. This is one move I am not on board with. By fixing one hole we created another one with an unknown at RT. We don't know how Clark or anyone else will do at RT or if Franklin will be ok at LG. I liked the bookends of Clady and Franklin, two monsters on the edges that were very good at protecting the QB.

I agree completely. Since people started talking about it I didn't think it was a good idea. But I will have to say on paper it looks like a good fit for Franklin. Theres always that issue with having to actually playing the game though

broncohead
05-15-2014, 07:45 PM
I'm fine with whatever moves they wanna make. My last time watching this team was the OL and Franklin in particular getting smoked.

If we were gonna switch every player who has a bad game no one would have a position...

Fire Bronc
05-15-2014, 09:38 PM
Franklin is better suited to play guard then tackle, and has the potential to open the ground game up considerably in the middle. Clark is a swing tackle who has taken reps on both sides of the line. He faired well last year at left tackle and shouldn't have any problem transitioning to the right side. Ramirez never took a snap at center until last year, and now has a full year working with Manning under his belt, and Clady will be back which is enough said. The line should be better then last year, with the potential to be very dominant, especially with the run game between the tackles. The switch isn't about demoting anyone, it is about trying to put the best offensive line combination on the field.

Rick
05-15-2014, 09:50 PM
I'm ecstatic about the switch. I've wanted them to do that side last year when it appeared Clark was managing tackle fairly well, I started thinking back then about the possibilities once Clady came back.


Obviously having good bookends can help out a QB but I believe an intimidating run game can help even more. It is just my opinion but I personally believe Franklin, Vazquez, and Ramirez inside will completely dominate and blow running lanes wide open. Teams stack the middle for run support Payton drops passes right behind them to streaking slot guys.

Davii
05-15-2014, 10:00 PM
I'm ecstatic about the switch. I've wanted them to do that side last year when it appeared Clark was managing tackle fairly well, I started thinking back then about the possibilities once Clady came back.


Obviously having good bookends can help out a QB but I believe an intimidating run game can help even more. It is just my opinion but I personally believe Franklin, Vazquez, and Ramirez inside will completely dominate and blow running lanes wide open. Teams stack the middle for run support Payton drops passes right behind them to streaking slot guys.

This is what I'm hoping for. If we can get a running game that can be counted on it takes the pressure off Manning. Once teams have to respect the running game Peyton will have his way with them. Microphones at the Super Bowl actually picked up Pete Carroll telling his team to completely ignore the run, don't even honor a handoff, assume we're passing every single play.... We NEED a run game. Period.

This gives us our best shot at it. If Clark can play left tackle as well as he did last year he should be ok at right. We shall see. If it's not working we'll know during preseason and they'll switch back. If our D is wearing them out before the first preseason game it won't even take that long.

Traveler
05-23-2014, 12:52 PM
I'm ecstatic about the switch. I've wanted them to do that side last year when it appeared Clark was managing tackle fairly well, I started thinking back then about the possibilities once Clady came back.


Obviously having good bookends can help out a QB but I believe an intimidating run game can help even more. It is just my opinion but I personally believe Franklin, Vazquez, and Ramirez inside will completely dominate and blow running lanes wide open. Teams stack the middle for run support Payton drops passes right behind them to streaking slot guys.

Been wishing for this for quite sometime. Only time will tell if it's the right move, but my guess is that it is. Especially with Manning being immobile as he is. He needs a clean pocket inside and Beast, Manny, and Louis can provide that for him. He can "somewhat" elude the DE's since he can see them coming and step up into the pocket. Franklin should greatly assist in that regard.

Next question if Franklin does excel at OG, does Denver pay him or let him walk? Not sure they want to allocate such a huge portion of the salry cap in one position. My hope is they keep him.

NightTerror218
05-24-2014, 07:10 PM
I'm ecstatic about the switch. I've wanted them to do that side last year when it appeared Clark was managing tackle fairly well, I started thinking back then about the possibilities once Clady came back.

Obviously having good bookends can help out a QB but I believe an intimidating run game can help even more. It is just my opinion but I personally believe Franklin, Vazquez, and Ramirez inside will completely dominate and blow running lanes wide open. Teams stack the middle for run support Payton drops passes right behind them to streaking slot guys.

No team will stack box on peytyon he throws 40 times a game. I remember watching Clark at LT before manning was here and he was horrible. I think the only reason he was not horrible was because manning gets the ball out so quick nobody has time to get to him. Look at Colts game to see the normal Clark. He was smoked by Mathis on the edge over and over and over and over again. Seattle be him as well on edge. I just do not think he is a good starter. I think he will be owned at RT.

G_Money
05-27-2014, 02:06 PM
No team will stack box on peytyon he throws 40 times a game. I remember watching Clark at LT before manning was here and he was horrible. I think the only reason he was not horrible was because manning gets the ball out so quick nobody has time to get to him. Look at Colts game to see the normal Clark. He was smoked by Mathis on the edge over and over and over and over again. Seattle be him as well on edge. I just do not think he is a good starter. I think he will be owned at RT.

I was hoping that CJ Fiedorowicz would fall in the draft and we could pick him up as a blocking TE but no luck. We could deploy a heavy package though with Schofield playing a nominal "TE" position as a blocker and helping Clark out. It would cost us Julius Thomas in the flat for those plays.

I think we could manage, if we're playing a game where Clark is getting killed. I'm not thrilled about him at RT, but if Clady is back to being his old self and Franklin/ManRam/Vasquez are grinding it up front, then we can make it work.

~G

CrazyHorse
05-27-2014, 03:18 PM
I like this. I think it puts our 5 best offensive linemen on the field. As good as the unit was last year, with the exception of the Super Bowl, I think they could be even better.

TXBRONC
05-28-2014, 09:04 AM
No team will stack box on peytyon he throws 40 times a game. I remember watching Clark at LT before manning was here and he was horrible. I think the only reason he was not horrible was because manning gets the ball out so quick nobody has time to get to him. Look at Colts game to see the normal Clark. He was smoked by Mathis on the edge over and over and over and over again. Seattle be him as well on edge. I just do not think he is a good starter. I think he will be owned at RT.

Mathis had 19.5 sacks last season so he smoked a lot of left tackles. Overall in pass protection he did solid job but run blocking isn't something he does particularly well. Right tackles generally do not have to take on elite pass rushers so I could see him holding his own in pass protection. Run blocking is an entirely different story. A month or two ago it was pointed out by Mike Klis that the Denver averaged something like three yards per carry on the left and four yards per carry on the right this past season.

Cugel
05-28-2014, 06:11 PM
Still think it's a mistake to move Franklin from RT. This is one move I am not on board with. By fixing one hole we created another one with an unknown at RT. We don't know how Clark or anyone else will do at RT or if Franklin will be ok at LG. I liked the bookends of Clady and Franklin, two monsters on the edges that were very good at protecting the QB.

That's just it. Franklin was NOT "very good at protecting the QB." That's not my conclusion. That's the conclusion of John Fox and John Elway. Why do you think they are moving him? Duh!

They watched the SB and they did NOT conclude "it's just one game." They saw Franklin getting dominated by the Seahawks edge rushers and get beat again and again, and they said to themselves "we have to do better." So, they decided to draft a RT, move Chris Clark to RT and move Franklin inside where he'll compete at LG with Manny Ramirez.

Of course losing Clady was the worst injury suffered by the Broncos in 2013, and getting him back healthy for 2014 is key to their SB hopes.

Chis Clark played very well all season in relief of Clady, and the fact that he was outmatched at LT in the SB is not a strike against him. He's not an elite LT.

To give you an idea of the difference, Clady signed a 5 year $52 million contract in 2013, with $33 million guaranteed, PLUS $5 million additional in incentives such as All-Pro selections and performance bonuses.

Chris Clark signed a 3 year $5 million contract including a $677,000 roster bonus.

One of these things is not like another. Franklin signed a 4 year $4.3 million contract that expires this year. Next year he's an unrestricted FA.

Think of this as an extended trial period for Franklin. If the Broncos don't see some improvement in 2014 they are going to let him walk next season, just like they did Zane Beadles this year.

Don't like this or don't agree with it? Too bad. Elway and Fox are nobody's fools. They look at every practice, every game, every snap and evaluate the performance of all their players. Franklin didn't measure up, and if he doesn't improve this season (and they hope he can excel at G) he's gone next year.

Shazam!
05-28-2014, 06:29 PM
Still think it's a mistake to move Franklin from RT. This is one move I am not on board with. By fixing one hole we created another one with an unknown at RT. We don't know how Clark or anyone else will do at RT or if Franklin will be ok at LG. I liked the bookends of Clady and Franklin, two monsters on the edges that were very good at protecting the QB.

That's just it. Franklin was NOT "very good at protecting the QB." That's not my conclusion. That's the conclusion of John Fox and John Elway. Why do you think they are moving him? Duh!

They watched the SB and they did NOT conclude "it's just one game." They saw Franklin getting dominated by the Seahawks edge rushers and get beat again and again, and they said to themselves "we have to do better." So, they decided to draft a RT, move Chris Clark to RT and move Franklin inside where he'll compete at LG with Manny Ramirez.

Of course losing Clady was the worst injury suffered by the Broncos in 2013, and getting him back healthy for 2014 is key to their SB hopes.

Chis Clark played very well all season in relief of Clady, and the fact that he was outmatched at LT in the SB is not a strike against him. He's not an elite LT.

To give you an idea of the difference, Clady signed a 5 year $52 million contract in 2013, with $33 million guaranteed, PLUS $5 million additional in incentives such as All-Pro selections and performance bonuses.

Chris Clark signed a 3 year $5 million contract including a $677,000 roster bonus.

One of these things is not like another. Franklin signed a 4 year $4.3 million contract that expires this year. Next year he's an unrestricted FA.

Think of this as an extended trial period for Franklin. If the Broncos don't see some improvement in 2014 they are going to let him walk next season, just like they did Zane Beadles this year.

Don't like this or don't agree with it? Too bad. Elway and Fox are nobody's fools. They look at every practice, every game, every snap and evaluate the performance of all their players. Franklin didn't measure up, and if he doesn't improve this season (and they hope he can excel at G) he's gone next year.

Exactly what ive been saying since the game. Franklin got abused in ways nobody could have predicted, it was horrible. It reminded me of the SBs in years past.

Cugel
05-28-2014, 06:31 PM
No team will stack box on peytyon he throws 40 times a game. I remember watching Clark at LT before manning was here and he was horrible. I think the only reason he was not horrible was because manning gets the ball out so quick nobody has time to get to him. Look at Colts game to see the normal Clark. He was smoked by Mathis on the edge over and over and over and over again. Seattle be him as well on edge. I just do not think he is a good starter. I think he will be owned at RT.

Several points refute pretty much all of this.

#1 As others have pointed out Robert Mathis is one of the top 3 pass rushers in the NFL and guess what? He had a monster year in 2013, with 19.5 sacks, 8 (EIGHT!) forced fumbles and a safety. Had he been going against Clady, he might well have dominated him, just as he dominated virtually every single OL he faced all year.

#2 Chris Clark is not considered by anybody other than maybe his mother as an elite LT. He did a great job filling in at the second most difficult position in the NFL, LT. Nobody expects him to go up against pass-rushers like Mathis one on one. Nobody is going to want any Broncos OL to go up against Aldon Smith one on one this season when the Broncos play the 49ers. Does that mean that Ryan Clady is no good?

#3 You may think he'll be "owned at RT." Obviously Elway and Fox don't agree or they wouldn't bother to put him there. We'll have to see, but he's smaller and faster than Franklin and not as strong. His strengths are his technique and agility. Obviously the Broncos staff saw enough that they decided to try him out at RT. We'll see how he does. If he struggles, they can always move Franklin back over to RT.

#4 Here's what Franklin said about moving inside to guard
"It's easier to get your hands on them at guard. I feel like the play begins when you get your hands on them. At tackle, you are dealing with a lot smaller guys who are a lot faster," Franklin said. "The battle is before you get your hands on them."

I.e. he's a big man who struggles against "a lot [of] smaller guys who are faster" and he thinks he can get his hands on the defensive Ts a lot better and move them with his strength (which is after all pretty enormous). Inside at G it's less of a hands battle for technique, and more pure mauling your opponent. That's a battle he looks to win most of the time and he's looking forward to it.

As for next year, Franklin is NOT going to get the same contract offer as a starting LG as he would as a starting RT. So, he's losing millions by this move, but he can still hope to get a lot more money than what he's being paid under his old contract.

Cugel
05-28-2014, 06:50 PM
Exactly what ive been saying since the game. Franklin got abused in ways nobody could have predicted, it was horrible. It reminded me of the SBs in years past.

The entire Broncos OL got horribly abused, with the possible exception of Louis Vasquez. That was Elway's incentive to shake up the entire OL this season. Look at all the changes:

1. LT - Get Ryan Clady back. Pray he stays healthy. Pray real hard. Now you have an All-Pro elite LT.

2. LG - Let Zane Beadles walk. He was nothing special, and the Broncos are looking to upgrade his position with Franklin or Ramirez.

3. C - Sign Will Montgomery to compete with Ramirez. Draft Matt Paradis to compete at C, and Michael Schofield to compete for the RT or LG positions. He could start the season as a backup, and how soon he sees action will depend on his development this off-season.

4. RG - Nothing. Louis Vasquez ain't broke, so they won't try and fix his position.

5. RT - Move Franklin out of there and put in Chris Clark who did a great job as a backup. Schofield could also compete for playing time here, and if nothing works out as expected, then you still have Franklin who could wind up moving back over to RT if they need him there.

All these moves indicate a Broncos coaching staff that was not at all happy with the OL play for 2013. A lot of pass-blocking deficiencies were covered up by Peyton Manning getting rid of the ball so quickly all year. Those deficiencies got exposed in the SB and the Broncos are clearly committed to doing something about them.

Simple Jaded
05-28-2014, 11:58 PM
First of all, we don't know if Franklin stays at LG, second, Franklin was moved because Manning needs a clean pocket and because he is a massive upgrade over Beadles, both in the run game and pass pro.

Had the Stealers not drafted David DeCastro two years ago I'm convinced the Broncos OL would be Clady, DeCastro, Ramirez, Vasquez and Franklin. Dude was never a liability, I'm not even sure how this is even debatable.

Cugel
05-29-2014, 12:12 PM
First of all, we don't know if Franklin stays at LG, second, Franklin was moved because Manning needs a clean pocket and because he is a massive upgrade over Beadles, both in the run game and pass pro.

Had the Stealers not drafted David DeCastro two years ago I'm convinced the Broncos OL would be Clady, DeCastro, Ramirez, Vasquez and Franklin. Dude was never a liability, I'm not even sure how this is even debatable.

#1 - The Broncos did not draft DeCastro so that's irrelevant.

#2 - Franklin was a liability in pass protection at RT and the Broncos coaches see him as such or they would never in hell have moved him would they? He admits he struggles with "smaller faster" DEs. You don't see them moving Louis Vasquez out of his RG spot do you? Why not? Because he is NOT a liability at pass-blocking. He does an outstanding job of it.

They could have simply moved Manny Ramirez back to LG and started Montgomery at C. They still might. It would have been easier to move Franklin inside to RG and move Vasquez over to the LG spot, but that would take their best OL other than Clady out of his natural position.

#3 You don't make all these changes on the OL if everything is just great. My previous post was designed to point out that they are shifting not just one, but 4 out of the five starters on the OL! That's a LOT of changes for one off season.

Think about this for a moment. This team just had the greatest offensive performance in NFL history and went to the SB. And they are totally revamping the OL the next off-season?

Doesn't that ring any bells with you all? Remember also that for the OL cohesion and playing together is a key component. So, it's doubly odd that they would make this many changes.

Answer: They believe that Peyton Manning covered up for some suspect OL pass-blocking and want to strengthen it significantly. And the move of Franklin inside to G is proof of this.

P.S. There is no argument that Franklin is a massive upgrade over Beadles who under achieved so much they didn't even try and re-sign him.

Slick
05-29-2014, 12:41 PM
I thought Franklin graded out as the top RT in the league last year. Or at least top 3.

Cugel
05-29-2014, 08:23 PM
I thought Franklin graded out as the top RT in the league last year. Or at least top 3.

If you're grading them solely as run blockers. . . maybe. He's a HUGE dude, just completely immense if you've ever seen him in person. He's literally as strong as an ox. But, he admits he struggles with smaller speedier pass-rushers, whereas Chris Clark may not be as strong a run blocker, but he's got quicker feet and hands and handled himself well all year at LT which is a more demanding position than RT because the LT is going up against (usually) the opponent's best pass-rusher and often has to handle him one-on-one depending on the blocking scheme.

Since G is not as important a position as T this is definitely a demotion for Franklin, and it will cost him millions of dollars in FA (the difference between the starting salary of RTs in the NFL versus LGs is significant). Whereas the RT blocks the LDE (who could be an elite pass-rusher depending on how the defense lines up), the LG handles the RDT who is not always a pass-rusher at all. And if he is, he more often than not is a bull-rusher, who tries to jack the OG back into the QB.

Well, nobody is going to bull-rush Orlando Franklin. That's his game. He should be able to handle DTs one-on-one just fine. A very few elite DTs like J.J. Watt could give him trouble with their speed and moves if they line up against him, but a guy like that requires a double-team on every play in any case, so he should get some help there.

Shazam!
05-29-2014, 08:27 PM
Cugel has become Joel.

NightTerror218
05-29-2014, 08:38 PM
Several points refute pretty much all of this.

#1 As others have pointed out Robert Mathis is one of the top 3 pass rushers in the NFL and guess what? He had a monster year in 2013, with 19.5 sacks, 8 (EIGHT!) forced fumbles and a safety. Had he been going against Clady, he might well have dominated him, just as he dominated virtually every single OL he faced all year.

#2 Chris Clark is not considered by anybody other than maybe his mother as an elite LT. He did a great job filling in at the second most difficult position in the NFL, LT. Nobody expects him to go up against pass-rushers like Mathis one on one. Nobody is going to want any Broncos OL to go up against Aldon Smith one on one this season when the Broncos play the 49ers. Does that mean that Ryan Clady is no good?

#3 You may think he'll be "owned at RT." Obviously Elway and Fox don't agree or they wouldn't bother to put him there. We'll have to see, but he's smaller and faster than Franklin and not as strong. His strengths are his technique and agility. Obviously the Broncos staff saw enough that they decided to try him out at RT. We'll see how he does. If he struggles, they can always move Franklin back over to RT.

#4 Here's what Franklin said about moving inside to guard

I.e. he's a big man who struggles against "a lot [of] smaller guys who are faster" and he thinks he can get his hands on the defensive Ts a lot better and move them with his strength (which is after all pretty enormous). Inside at G it's less of a hands battle for technique, and more pure mauling your opponent. That's a battle he looks to win most of the time and he's looking forward to it.

As for next year, Franklin is NOT going to get the same contract offer as a starting LG as he would as a starting RT. So, he's losing millions by this move, but he can still hope to get a lot more money than what he's being paid under his old contract.

You make to many assumption and pass off as facts. And if you know fox and elway so well can I have their numbers?



They are putting their best 5 OL out there. Manny is C not competing for G unless Montgomery beats him out. The reason Franklin is on that contract is because its a rookie contract . Clark is not and that is comparing apples or oranges. He will make more on next contract then Clark. If he can not play guard he may be moved back to RT and we will see another shifting of the OL with Manny at LG and Clark on bench.


Clark survived because Manning got ball out so fast. Clark lost to elite pass rushers or strong pass rushers. I only saw him protect well with edge rushers that over committed and he could push out and past Manning. Mathis got what 3 sacks and a FF against Clark. He forced an int with hit on Manning arm and had like 10 knock downs. That was pure dominance. Imagine his stats if he did that for 16 games rather then 1 sack a game and .5 a FF a game and a hell of a lot less constant pressure from one guy.

dogfish
05-29-2014, 10:07 PM
heard part of a manning interview the other day. . . they asked him about this-- he said now is time to do it if you want to try new O-line combos, and that big O will be one of the five starters one way or another. . .

Simple Jaded
05-29-2014, 11:14 PM
PFF had Franklin rated 4th overall at RT with the 5th highest grade in pass pro. And before we get carried away with how much Manning masks his deficiencies, the highest rated RT in pass pro blocks for Drew Brees.

How's that for relevant?

Simple Jaded
05-29-2014, 11:18 PM
Ratings
# Pos. Name Team Snaps Overall Pass Block Screen Block Run Block Penalty # of Pen QB Sk QB Ht QB Hu
1 LT (16), RT (0) Trent Williams WAS 1170 38.2 22.9 1.0 9.4 4.9 6-2 8 6 21
2 LT (16), RT (0) Joe Thomas CLV 1149 35.2 29.8 1.5 3.0 0.9 11-1 2 9 26
3 LT (16), RT (0) Jordan Gross CAR 1014 31.5 19.6 0.5 4.6 6.8 1-1 6 1 22
4 LT (16), RT (0) Jason Peters PHI 1040 30.0 15.2 1.5 9.1 4.2 4-0 4 3 28
5 LT (16), RT (0) Tyron Smith DAL 1023 28.3 17.8 1.0 6.4 3.1 7-2 1 3 27
6 LT (16), RT (0) Joe Staley SF 958 27.7 15.0 0.5 8.5 3.7 3-1 4 2 14
7 LT (0), RT (15) Zach Strief NO 1062 26.5 21.7 -0.5 -0.1 5.4 4-0 3 4 26
8 LT (15), RT (0) Jake Long SL 872 25.8 7.1 0.0 14.8 3.9 5-1 6 4 22
9 LT (15), RT (0) Nate Solder NE 1104 25.6 12.2 0.5 6.5 6.4 4-1 10 2 23
10 LT (0), RT (15) Phil Loadholt MIN 970 25.0 11.9 0.0 9.6 3.5 3-0 4 5 27
11 LT (11), RT (0) King Dunlap SD 687 24.4 3.2 1.0 16.5 3.7 4-1 3 3 13
12 LT (11), RT (0) Eugene Monroe BLT 801 24.0 14.5 0.0 6.1 3.4 4-2 4 3 17
13 LT (0), RT (16) Demar Dotson TB 1066 23.0 15.7 0.0 2.9 4.4 4-0 5 2 27
13 LT (16), RT (0) Cordy Glenn BUF 1180 23.0 13.6 0.0 4.3 5.1 6-0 2 5 23
15 LT (9), RT (0) Andrew Whitworth CIN 587 20.2 7.9 3.0 7.3 2.0 5-2 4 3 11
16 LT (16), RT (0) Michael Roos TEN 1088 20.0 4.4 3.0 8.0 4.6 4-1 2 7 36
17 LT (0), RT (15) Orlando Franklin DEN 1114 19.2 13.7 0.0 0.9 4.6 11-1 2 4 18
18 LT (0), RT (16) Doug Free DAL 1025 18.9 14.4 0.5 2.9 1.1 8-1 6 0 34
19 LT (0), RT (16) Tyler Polumbus WAS 1172 18.7 15.4 0.0 -4.6 7.9 1-0 4 9 28
20 LT (0), RT (16) Andre Smith Jr. CIN 1120 18.5 12.2 -0.5 1.1 5.7 4-0 6 2 27
21 LT (14), RT (1) Chris Clark DEN 1077 16.8 9.0 2.0 -0.1 5.9 7-1 7 6 19
22 LT (14), RT (0) Duane Brown HST 973 14.6 13.0 2.0 -3.1 2.7 7-0 3 9 20
23 LT (0), RT (8) Sebastian Vollmer NE 516 14.5 10.5 1.0 -0.4 3.4 0-0 2 1 13
24 LT (14), RT (0) Anthony Collins CIN 592 14.0 12.8 0.5 -2.3 3.0 1-0 0 0 12
25 LT (0), RT (16) Gosder Cherilus IND 1092 12.2 8.3 1.0 -1.9 4.8 3-0 4 13 30
25 LT (0), RT (16) Joe Barksdale SL 838 12.2 11.9 0.0 -4.4 4.7 1-0 4 5 18
27 LT (16), RT (0) Anthony Castonzo IND 1088 11.8 -0.6 0.5 7.6 4.3 6-1 4 8 39
28 LT (12), RT (0) Branden Albert KC 800 10.0 14.4 -0.5 -2.4 -1.5 9-0 4 6 13
29 LT (0), RT (16) Anthony Davis SF 1005 9.4 8.8 0.0 -0.4 1.0 6-0 5 4 24
30 LT (0), RT (16) Mitchell Schwartz CLV 1150 8.2 3.3 0.5 -0.5 4.9 4-2 11 19 35
31 LT (16), RT (0) Donald Penn TB 1064 8.1 -2.2 0.0 4.4 5.9 5-2 12 6 28
32 LT (1), RT (8) LaAdrian Waddle DET 553 7.9 2.4 0.0 2.7 2.8 2-0 0 8 17
33 LT (0), RT (16) Justin Pugh NYG 1042 7.1 -1.6 0.0 2.5 6.2 3-0 5 4 43
34 LT (1), RT (7) Michael Bowie SEA 486 5.9 -1.7 0.0 7.3 0.3 3-0 5 3 11
35 LT (16), RT (0) Riley Reiff DET 1127 3.6 -1.7 0.5 1.0 3.8 5-0 7 8 34
36 LT (0), RT (12) David Stewart TEN 813 2.8 4.0 1.0 -6.9 4.7 3-1 5 5 23
37 LT (4), RT (8) Marcus Cannon NE 506 2.5 7.9 0.5 -6.3 0.4 5-0 0 4 9
38 LT (4), RT (11) D.J. Fluker SD 1075 0.4 -3.9 1.5 0.5 2.3 7-0 6 8 33
39 LT (0), RT (16) Lane Johnson PHI 1127 0.2 -7.7 -1.0 6.7 2.2 8-2 10 8 39
40 LT (16), RT (0) D'Brickashaw Ferguson NYJ 1073 0.1 6.0 0.0 -9.7 3.8 4-1 8 4 31
41 LT (0), RT (9) Breno Giacomini SEA 552 -0.2 1.0 0.5 -1.5 -0.2 5-0 4 1 19
41 LT (11), RT (1) Kelvin Beachum PIT 738 -0.2 4.2 0.5 -8.0 3.1 4-0 6 5 18
43 LT (0), RT (12) Tony Pashos OAK 735 -0.5 5.5 0.0 -8.9 2.9 3-2 6 1 19
44 LT (0), RT (16) Marcus Gilbert PIT 965 -0.7 2.2 1.5 -6.7 2.3 8-0 11 5 30
45 LT (0), RT (15) Tyson Clabo MIA 962 -0.8 0.6 1.5 -8.4 5.5 2-0 11 10 31
45 LT (8), RT (0) Russell Okung SEA 441 -0.8 -4.4 0.0 2.2 1.4 7-1 2 3 9
47 LT (0), RT (16) Austin Howard NYJ 1071 -1.0 1.9 1.0 -10.2 6.3 2-0 2 15 21
48 LT (0), RT (9) Corey Hilliard DET 459 -1.5 1.8 0.0 -6.4 3.1 0-0 1 1 14
48 LT (16), RT (0) Matt Kalil MIN 1059 -1.5 4.1 -0.5 -7.7 2.6 5-2 4 12 33
50 LT (16), RT (0) Jermon Bushrod CHI 1070 -2.0 -6.3 0.5 -0.9 4.7 7-2 4 9 42
51 LT (1), RT (8) Ryan Schraeder ATL 315 -2.3 -0.3 0.0 -3.2 1.2 2-0 4 0 12
52 LT (0), RT (16) Byron Bell CAR 1026 -2.8 -1.4 0.0 -5.3 3.9 5-0 9 6 31
53 LT (0), RT (12) Jeremy Trueblood ATL 641 -2.9 -2.0 0.5 -2.7 1.3 4-0 2 7 24
54 LT (5), RT (0) Jared Veldheer OAK 335 -4.0 -0.1 0.0 -3.1 -0.8 6-1 1 0 13
55 LT (0), RT (14) Don Barclay GB 979 -4.7 3.3 0.0 -11.7 3.7 5-0 8 6 22
56 LT (0), RT (16) Erik Pears BUF 1180 -5.0 5.6 0.0 -15.2 4.6 6-2 4 6 29
57 LT (3), RT (12) Ryan Harris HST 485 -5.3 -3.5 -0.5 -2.6 1.3 3-0 2 12 14
58 LT (16), RT (0) William Beatty NYG 1019 -6.3 -14.3 0.0 4.0 4.0 9-2 13 7 39
59 LT (11), RT (0) Khalif Barnes OAK 735 -6.4 1.0 0.0 -6.4 -1.0 11-4 3 2 30
60 LT (6), RT (1) Jonathan Martin MIA 458 -6.9 -3.0 0.5 -5.5 1.1 3-1 7 7 15
60 LT (16), RT (0) David Bakhtiari GB 1138 -6.9 2.8 0.0 -15.0 5.3 11-3 8 4 27
62 LT (7), RT (7) Mike Adams PIT 485 -7.3 -8.5 0.0 -1.0 2.2 2-0 4 8 24
62 LT (0), RT (12) Austin Pasztor JAX 808 -7.3 4.0 0.0 -13.8 2.5 3-0 5 10 18
64 LT (7), RT (6) Donald Stephenson KC 543 -8.7 -4.1 0.0 -5.7 1.1 6-0 1 5 22
65 LT (10), RT (0) Bryant McKinnie MIA 664 -8.9 -5.1 0.0 -8.2 4.4 1-1 7 9 23
66 LT (15), RT (0) Charles Brown NO 974 -9.2 -13.6 0.0 1.8 2.6 12-1 7 9 33
67 LT (5), RT (0) Bryant McKinnie BLT 380 -11.8 -2.9 0.0 -9.5 0.6 2-0 1 4 15
68 LT (0), RT (16) Michael Oher BLT 1125 -12.6 -0.2 0.0 -17.0 4.6 5-0 8 7 42
69 LT (0), RT (16) Eric Winston ARZ 1086 -16.3 -7.8 0.5 -8.4 -0.6 8-0 7 8 43
70 LT (0), RT (14) Eric Fisher KC 811 -17.8 -13.3 0.5 -6.5 1.5 6-0 7 5 35
71 LT (9), RT (0) Paul McQuistan SEA 570 -23.2 -17.5 0.0 -7.6 1.9 2-0 8 5 21
72 LT (0), RT (16) Derek Newton HST 848 -24.3 -17.3 1.5 -9.3 0.8 13-6 6 7 37
73 LT (12), RT (2) Cameron Bradfield JAX 811 -24.7 -13.4 0.5 -14.3 2.5 5-1 7 14 29
74 LT (0), RT (16) Jordan Mills CHI 1022 -31.1 -32.5 1.0 -5.5 5.9 2-0 3 13 62
75 LT (13), RT (3) Lamar Holmes ATL 1075 -32.3 -17.4 2.0 -15.2 -1.7 12-1 10 13 53
76 LT (12), RT (2) Bradley Sowell ARZ 842 -38.4 -26.9 1.0 -16.3 3.8 3-1 7 12 40

Simple Jaded
05-29-2014, 11:20 PM
One other thing, Beadles didn't "underachieve", he sucked.

Plus, the Broncos wouldn't move Franklin to RG simply because it's one of two OL positions he's never played and there's a hole at LG, I have zero idea why RG would be easier.

Simple Jaded
05-29-2014, 11:32 PM
And another thing, you seem to be a fan of Chris Clark, perhaps (and I'm just spitballing here) perhaps the Franklin move is nothing more than the Broncos solution to keep Clark in the starting lineup.

dogfish
05-30-2014, 12:03 AM
And another thing, you seem to be a fan of Chris Clark, perhaps (and I'm just spitballing here) perhaps the Franklin move is nothing more than the Broncos solution to keep Clark in the starting lineup.

i think that's clearly what it is ATM. . . you want your best five veteran OLs on the field, and with clady coming back and beadles leaving, circumstances dictated that the line was gonna get shuffled. . .

TXBRONC
05-30-2014, 09:19 AM
And another thing, you seem to be a fan of Chris Clark, perhaps (and I'm just spitballing here) perhaps the Franklin move is nothing more than the Broncos solution to keep Clark in the starting lineup.


i think that's clearly what it is ATM. . . you want your best five veteran OLs on the field, and with clady coming back and beadles leaving, circumstances dictated that the line was gonna get shuffled. . .

Im not so sure Chris Clark is one of Denver's five best offensive line. I mean as in both run and pass blocking. If we're talking just pass blocking skill he is but as a run blocker is wasn't very good.

Cugel
05-30-2014, 11:17 AM
PFF had Franklin rated 4th overall at RT with the 5th highest grade in pass pro. And before we get carried away with how much Manning masks his deficiencies, the highest rated RT in pass pro blocks for Drew Brees.

How's that for relevant?

You must have mistaken me for John Elway or John Fox! I don't get a vote on this! Newsflash: The Broncos coaches do not agree with you! The move of Franklin proves it. :laugh:

Frankly, it seemed to me that the Broncos OL struggled in pass-protection a lot last year, so I'm not surprised by the moves. It actually encourages me that they are making changes, because it means they saw a problem area and want to address it.

All your arguments fall right to the ground, unless you think John Fox is some kind of idiot and you are just a genius. Why are they moving Franklin to G?

RT is a more important position than LG. The RT is facing a DE. Sometimes the LDE of course, but often the defense will switch sides, especially in obvious passing downs, to put their fastest and best pass-rusher against the RT.

So, if Franklin did such a great job as a pass-blocker last year, why are they moving him inside?

The answer is NOT "because they want to play Chris Clark at RT." That begs the question of "why?" You simply do not move your starting T to G unless he doesn't do his job.

They could have decided to move one of their G's to G, e.g. move Ramirez back to LG, which was his original position and start Will Montgomery at C and leave Franklin at RT. They also have G Ben Garland for instance who they could give a try.

Why not for instance try moving Clark inside to LG? If Franklin can move from T to G why not Clark?

Answer: They feel, even if YOU don't, that Clark did his job and they want him to start, and that Franklin did not, and they want to try him inside.

For decades now, guys who don't pan out at LT get moved to RT, and RTs who for one reason or another don't measure up get tried out at G. A lot of times a RT who doesn't have quick enough feet to handle speed rushers at the T position makes a successful transition to G because he's dealing with DTs rather than DEs, and they are bigger and slower.

I recently heard Alfred Williams on 104.3 the Fan saying that "Orlando Franklin had the worst game of his career in the Super Bowl." Pretty clearly the Broncos coaching staff agreed with this assessment and they're doing something about it.

What all your blather amounts to is that you don't agree with Elway and Fox's decision. You think Franklin did a great job and they don't.

Cugel
05-30-2014, 11:27 AM
Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
i think that's clearly what it is ATM. . . you want your best five veteran OLs on the field, and with clady coming back and beadles leaving, circumstances dictated that the line was gonna get shuffled. . .

What you're ignoring here is that RT is more important and a more difficult position to play than G, obviously so because they are facing better pass-rushers (DEs). So, if you have a guy who's doing a great job at RT you simply don't move him. You leave him there and try out other guys at LG. They've got lots of guys; Ben Garland, Manny Ramirez, Winson Justice, etc. (Justice is a T but if Franklin can make the transition, then why not him?)

The point is they had lots of options. The answer is simple: they like Orlando Franklin and want to keep him as a starter, yes, but not at RT. They prefer Chris Clark as a pass-blocker to Franklin, so they're moving Franklin and promoting Clark to RT.

This simple answer seems to offend all the people who think Franklin is great, when obviously the Broncos coaches do not think he's done the job as a pass-blocker.

I think this is a great move and one I hoped they would make this off-season, but if they never made it I would NOT be sitting here on these boards talking about what a bunch of idiots Elway and Fox are because they don't do what I think they should do! I'd accept that they know about 1000% more than I do about their OL and what to do about it and accept that I was wrong about Franklin not measuring up, and move on.

You all should do the same.

Cugel
05-30-2014, 11:35 AM
One other thing, Beadles didn't "underachieve", he sucked.

Plus, the Broncos wouldn't move Franklin to RG simply because it's one of two OL positions he's never played and there's a hole at LG, I have zero idea why RG would be easier.

RG would be easier for Franklin to learn because he's used to playing on the right side. Everything is reversed when you shift to the left side so it's a tougher transition. Most knowledgeable football fans already know this, so I didn't bother to mention it.

Traveler
05-30-2014, 01:13 PM
RG would be easier for Franklin to learn because he's used to playing on the right side. Everything is reversed when you shift to the left side so it's a tougher transition. Most knowledgeable football fans already know this, so I didn't bother to mention it.

Don't think the LG position will be a problem for Franklin since he played there quite a bit at "THE U."

TXBRONC
05-30-2014, 03:10 PM
RG would be easier for Franklin to learn because he's used to playing on the right side. Everything is reversed when you shift to the left side so it's a tougher transition. Most knowledgeable football fans already know this, so I didn't bother to mention it.

I disagree. Playing guard isn't the same thing as being a right tackle moving to left tackle or vise versa.

NightTerror218
05-30-2014, 03:19 PM
I think Clark is going to get man handled at the line and RB will get tackled quicker on the right. Yards per carry are going to drop for RB going right.

dogfish
05-30-2014, 07:21 PM
Im not so sure Chris Clark is one of Denver's five best offensive line. I mean as in both run and pass blocking. If we're talking just pass blocking skill he is but as a run blocker is wasn't very good.

i would agree that he may not be one of our five best run-blocking OLs, but i highly doubt that schofield is a better overall player as a rookie. . . if clark's not one of our five best, who's better? besides, pass blocking is paramount in a manning offense-- doesn't mean it's right, but that's how it is. . .

dogfish
05-30-2014, 07:30 PM
Since G is not as important a position as T this is definitely a demotion for Franklin, and it will cost him millions of dollars in FA (the difference between the starting salary of RTs in the NFL versus LGs is significant).

you keep saying this, and it's simply not right. . . you trying to pull the wool over the jury's eyes, counselor, or did you just not do your research? :laugh:

http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=RT

the highest-paid RT in the league gets 7 mil per year, with 15 mil guaranteed. . . there are five other RT's who make north of the 6 mil mark, and none of them have total guaranteed money over 9 mil. . . there are five OGs who top 7 mil per year average, compared to just one RT-- 8 OGs have contracts with ten mil or more guaranteed, compared to just one RT. . . zane beadles-- the definition of an average guard-- would be tied for the second-highest contract (based on both yearly average, and total guaranteed money) at the position if he played RT instead of OG. . . top OGs are actually paid BETTER than right tackles these days, let's stop perpetuating that myth. . .

TXBRONC
05-31-2014, 08:39 AM
i would agree that he may not be one of our five best run-blocking OLs, but i highly doubt that schofield is a better overall player as a rookie. . . if clark's not one of our five best, who's better? besides, pass blocking is paramount in a manning offense-- doesn't mean it's right, but that's how it is. . .

I know pass blocking is the skill he needs to be dominate in but they still have to be able to run the ball. IIRC Denver ran the ball considerably better on the right than they did on the left. I think the difference was nearly a full yard. If the construct of the line stays with Franklin at left guard and Clark at right tackle maybe that will balance the line out a little better.

Simple Jaded
06-01-2014, 12:26 AM
RG would be easier for Franklin to learn because he's used to playing on the right side. Everything is reversed when you shift to the left side so it's a tougher transition. Most knowledgeable football fans already know this, so I didn't bother to mention it.

He's used to playing the left side too, specifically LT and. . .wait for it. . .LG. He has 3 years experience playing RT, one year playing LT and 3 years playing LG. He has zero experience playing RG. He made that ever-so-difficult shift to the opposite side (a side he'd never played) as a ******* rookie.

Your point about moving Vazquez was obscenely stupid, it boils down to nothing more than another made up theory and fantastical attempt to read Elway/Fox's minds.

Traveler
06-01-2014, 10:19 AM
I think Clark is going to get man handled at the line and RB will get tackled quicker on the right. Yards per carry are going to drop for RB going right.

My guess is Clark will begin the season at RT, but by the 8th game, Schofield will take over. My hope is that Schofield can get his weight up to around 320-325 lbs., and win the job outright in TC.