Have the Broncos improved their roster this off season?

[Timmy!]

Obviously it's only May, but I'm curious. Did the Broncos get better or worse?

[Valar Morghulis]

Douchecanoe is up there with fuctard on the awesome scale!

I would be amazed if anyone did not think we were potentially a better team now than last season.

We filled holes with quality and never lost anyone of significance. I would like to have held onto woodyard - but picking up Vilma in free agency would make up for that - but apart from that, i think we are set in all positions and deep (enough) everywhere apart from QB.

[Shazam!]

I think this team will miss Moreno big time.

[Timmy!]

I think this team will miss Moreno big time.

RB is the only position I feel uneasy about. I think Ball is going to be fine, but I have 0 faith in Hillman, and CJ is completely unproven at this point. Hopefully one of the UDFA's impress.

[BroncoWave]

I think this team will miss Moreno big time.

This I agree with. We pretty much improved our defense across the board and our WRs are still fine, but the backfield worries me. Lord help us if Ball goes down.

[Valar Morghulis]

I think Ball is going to be a beast this year.

[BroncoWave]

I think Ball is going to be a beast this year.

I'm fine with Ball, but the depth behind him is the problem. RB is one of the most injury-susceptible positions, and we really have 0 proven depth if Ball were to go down at any point. This is a position that I hope we are not done addressing before week 1.

[Valar Morghulis]

I'm fine with Ball, but the depth behind him is the problem. RB is one of the most injury-susceptible positions, and we really have 0 proven depth if Ball were to go down at any point. This is a position that I hope we are not done addressing before week 1.

Fair point - all i have to go on is a 'gut feeling' but i really think CJ could step up to the plate this year. Out of curiosity who would you like to see us sign in FA?

[Northman]

Ill miss Moreno's heart but i think we will be fine with Ball. Hillman is a different story for me though. But as too the question i think we are much more rounded than we were last year. The only hiccups i can see that would put a dent in all that would be if players get suspended or seriously injured along the way. But as of now if everyone remains healthy i think we are a much better team.

[BroncoWave]

Fair point - all i have to go on is a 'gut feeling' but i really think CJ could step up to the plate this year. Out of curiosity who would you like to see us sign in FA?

I don't really know who is still out there. I was thinking we could probably get one from a team who is deep at RB after some of their camp cuts.

[VonDoom]

RB is the only position I feel uneasy about. I think Ball is going to be fine, but I have 0 faith in Hillman, and CJ is completely unproven at this point. Hopefully one of the UDFA's impress.

I think Bibbs will be on the roster. But I'm confused - you say CJ is unproven, but you want a UDFA to impress? CJ has already proven something by virtue of being with this team last year and learning the system. I doubt Bibbs or anyone else will show any more than CJ did in his first year.

[Joel]

An important part of whether we're better "on paper," as you put it, is that we have FIVE starters coming off serious injury who were 100% healthy this time last year. Two of them tore ACLs in the last month of the season, so we'll have to suffer through the first part of the season without them.

We're better at safety and DE, but it's hard to see how much of anywhere else, and we're worse many places.

-LT: I'm far more worried about Clady than this time last year; he played on a bad knee throughout most of 2011, then missed most of last year with a lis-franc injury to that foot.
+LG: Here's hoping Franklin transitions well; I concede he probably can't be much worse than Beadles.
+C: Ramirez will start unless someone outplays him, and he's better than Walton (Koppen was better than both, but this time last year we hadn't un-retired him due to Waltons injury.) +
0RG: Vasquez should still be solid, but he was last year, too.
-RT: Clark? Schofield? The latters scouting report says he struggles with quick edge rushers as much as Clark and Franklin do (which is a lot,) and neither have Franklins push.
-QB: A year older, and unlikely to shatter all the records he set last year.
-RB: Starter's gone; hopefully Ball can passblock now—and so can his backup (whoever that is....)
-WR: #2 is gone; I doubt a second round rookie's ready to fill his shoes, and if Caldwell could he'd have done it last year.

-DT: This time in 2013 our best DT wasn't coming off a dislocated hip (at 330+ lbs.!)
-DE: This time last year was pre-Faxgate; Ware's a stud, but is he better than Doom+Ayers? Doubtful, and even if a healthy Quanterus Smith is more hit than hype it's still a net loss.
0MLB: Still as crappy as the whole past decade; I guess once you hit rock bottom and stay there it CAN'T get worse. Yea...? :twitch:
-OLB: Our former DRoY Pro Bowler's no longer suspended 6 games—he's on IR with an ACL torn just before Christmas. Woodyard's in TN: Anyone know EITHER of our starters? HUGE downgrade.
-CB: Let's be simple/generous and say DRC→Talib's a wash; (even a 1st round) rookie for (even an aging) Champ isn't, and Harris tore his ACL nearly a month after Miller. MASSIVE downgrade.
0SS: Presumably Nacho, so no change.
+FS: Presumably Ward, who I expect will be better than Moore was even before compartment syndrome got him.

Before anyone leaps to mention mid-round picks/Economy Class FAs: Nearly HALF last years starters are gone/severely injured; the bargain bin and midround rookies can't replace SB starters.

So we've improved in 3 areas, stayed put in 3 and worsened in 9. That's only a quantitative rather than qualitative assessment, and YMMV, but I doubt many objectives ones will vary a lot.

"You may be right; I may be crazy but" I'd bet money the only people saying we're better than we were this time last year are the ones who say that EVERY year.

[VonDoom]

An important part of whether we're better "on paper," as you put it, is that we have FIVE starters coming off serious injury who were 100% healthy this time last year. Two of them tore ACLs in the last month of the season, so we'll have to suffer through the first part of the season without them.

We're better at safety and DE, but it's hard to see how much of anywhere else, and we're worse many places.

-LT: I'm far more worried about Clady than this time last year; he played on a bad knee throughout most of 2011, then missed most of last year with a lis-franc injury to that foot.
+LG: Here's hoping Franklin transitions well; I concede he probably can't be much worse than Beadles.
+C: Ramirez will start unless someone outplays him, and he's better than Walton (Koppen was better than both, but this time last year we hadn't un-retired him due to Waltons injury.) +
0RG: Vasquez should still be solid, but he was last year, too.
-RT: Clark? Schofield? The latters scouting report says he struggles with quick edge rushers as much as Clark and Franklin do (which is a lot,) and neither have Franklins push.
-QB: A year older, and unlikely to shatter all the records he set last year.
-RB: Starter's gone; hopefully Ball can passblock now—and so can his backup (whoever that is....)
-WR: #2 is gone; I doubt a second round rookie's ready to fill his shoes, and if Caldwell could he'd have done it last year.

-DT: This time in 2013 our best DT wasn't coming off a dislocated hip (at 330+ lbs.!)
-DE: This time last year was pre-Faxgate; Ware's a stud, but is he better than Doom+Ayers? Doubtful, and even if a healthy Quanterus Smith is more hit than hype it's still a net loss.
0MLB: Still as crappy as the whole past decade; I guess once you hit rock bottom and stay there it CAN'T get worse. Yea...? :twitch:
-OLB: Our former DRoY Pro Bowler's no longer suspended 6 games—he's on IR with an ACL torn just before Christmas. Woodyard's in TN: Anyone know EITHER of our starters? HUGE downgrade.
-CB: Let's be simple/generous and say DRC→Talib's a wash; (even a 1st round) rookie for (even an aging) Champ isn't, and Harris tore his ACL nearly a month after Miller. MASSIVE downgrade.
0SS: Presumably Nacho, so no change.
+FS: Presumably Ward, who I expect will be better than Moore was even before compartment syndrome got him.

Before anyone leaps to mention mid-round picks/Economy Class FAs: Nearly HALF last years starters are gone/severely injured; the bargain bin and midround rookies can't replace SB starters.

So we've improved in 3 areas, stayed put in 3 and worsened in 9. That's only a quantitative rather than qualitative assessment, and YMMV, but I doubt many objectives ones will vary a lot.

"You may be right; I may be crazy but" I'd bet money the only people saying we're better than we were this time last year are the ones who say that EVERY year.

Okay, I'll play.

I can understand concern about Clady, but I'm not that worried at this point.
Vasquez was more than "solid" last year.
Sanders is our #2 WR, not Latimer or Caldwell.
Our best DT is Knighton, and Vickerson is probably backing up Sly this year. Not that concerned.
Can we wait to see what Barrow is before we declare MLB a lost cause?
When Von's back, he'll be fine. Until then ... McCray? Our other OLB, as you may remember, is Trevathan, who had a great year and is only getting better.
Again, let's see what Roby is before we judge, but my suspicion is he's better than an over the hill Bailey. If Champ were still here, you'd be complaining about his injury history. "Massive" downgrade is BS.
Ward is a SS, so better than Duke.
I'm concerned about FS, as Moore is coming back from injury and we have almost no depth. So ironically, one of the only things you give a plus to is a question mark in my mind.

Missed ya, Joel!

[BroncoJoe]

LT should be even. All reports are Clady is recovering nicely - all the hardware is out of his foot and he is excelling in rehab. His return, even if not 100% is a net plus.

Don't know enough about RT.

Your -QB is just stupid. I doubt Manning will have another year of record-setting numbers, but mainly because we'll focus on being more balanced than any reduction in skill level.

RB should be even as well. I've been a big supporter of Moreno, but he had one "good" year out of four. I believe Ball is a more than adequate replacement. Depth could be an issue, but it's not worse than last year.

WR - Your comment on Caldwell is kind of silly because Decker was entrenched in that position. I'll give you the minus, but just barely.

DT - Big Vick is expected back, and we have Sly and Knighton. That's even IMO.

DE - Doom wasn't even here last year, not sure why you bring him up. We also brought in one of, if not the best DE available. That's a plus.

CB is even, if not a plus. Champ barely played last year and was a shadow of the player we all have known and loved. Most reports on our rookie are solid.

[LTC Pain]

Ill miss Moreno's heart but i think we will be fine with Ball. Hillman is a different story for me though. But as too the question i think we are much more rounded than we were last year. The only hiccups i can see that would put a dent in all that would be if players get suspended or seriously injured along the way. But as of now if everyone remains healthy i think we are a much better team.

I really don't know what to expect from Hillman. But my gut says "not much". And if he gets the fumbleitis again........

[Ravage!!!]

well, I think BALL is going to be fine. However, look how the NFL views RBs now. RBs weren't getting squat in FA, and it took the longest in the history of the draft for the FIRST RB to be drafted this year. There WILL be pretty good RBs that hit the market after cuts, and I feel that we might very well add another RB that we've heard of for depth. However, I think both RBs we have are better than people give credit...or... are giving too much credit to other RBs.

[Ravage!!!]

Caldwell is NOT the WR that Decker is, not even close. But the addition of Emanual Sanders, for some reason has been forgotton, plus our drafted WR will be a decent combo to supliment. Emanual will be the replacement for Decker, NOT Caldwell.

Defense, the additions we gained at safety and DE are HUGE. I'm not a big Talib fan at all, hopefully he can stay healthy enough for MOST of the season...especially the end. But I doubt it. The BIGGEST addition to our defense, will be getting the players back that were injured. Thats a giant upgrade in itself. How is it a downgrade because Champ isn't on our roster,when Champ didn't play all year??? :confused: Makes NO senses. Our Corners didn't downgrade at all, while our safeties were upgraded. I don't think we miss a weakside LB that was suplimented as the starter on the second half of the season. He leaving does not downgrade our defense, except for depth I suppose.

Another silly point. How can we compare Ware and Smith as a downgrade to a player that wasn't even ON the roster last year? :confused: Doom wasn't on the Broncos in 2013... so the addition of Ware to the roster shouldn't be even compared to that player as an up-grade/downgrade... at ALL.
Ayers was fodder, and Smith EASILY replaces his spot without problem, not to mention that Ware is a better player than Doom. Always has been.

The OL will be better this year. Getting players back, drafting players, moving players to their strength will just be btter than the patchwork we had last season. A no brainer.

[turftoad]

An important part of whether we're better "on paper," as you put it, is that we have FIVE starters coming off serious injury who were 100% healthy this time last year. Two of them tore ACLs in the last month of the season, so we'll have to suffer through the first part of the season without them.

We're better at safety and DE, but it's hard to see how much of anywhere else, and we're worse many places.

-LT: I'm far more worried about Clady than this time last year; he played on a bad knee throughout most of 2011, then missed most of last year with a lis-franc injury to that foot.
+LG: Here's hoping Franklin transitions well; I concede he probably can't be much worse than Beadles.
+C: Ramirez will start unless someone outplays him, and he's better than Walton (Koppen was better than both, but this time last year we hadn't un-retired him due to Waltons injury.) +
0RG: Vasquez should still be solid, but he was last year, too.
-RT: Clark? Schofield? The latters scouting report says he struggles with quick edge rushers as much as Clark and Franklin do (which is a lot,) and neither have Franklins push.
-QB: A year older, and unlikely to shatter all the records he set last year.
-RB: Starter's gone; hopefully Ball can passblock now—and so can his backup (whoever that is....)
-WR: #2 is gone; I doubt a second round rookie's ready to fill his shoes, and if Caldwell could he'd have done it last year.

-DT: This time in 2013 our best DT wasn't coming off a dislocated hip (at 330+ lbs.!)
-DE: This time last year was pre-Faxgate; Ware's a stud, but is he better than Doom+Ayers? Doubtful, and even if a healthy Quanterus Smith is more hit than hype it's still a net loss.
0MLB: Still as crappy as the whole past decade; I guess once you hit rock bottom and stay there it CAN'T get worse. Yea...? :twitch:
-OLB: Our former DRoY Pro Bowler's no longer suspended 6 games—he's on IR with an ACL torn just before Christmas. Woodyard's in TN: Anyone know EITHER of our starters? HUGE downgrade.
-CB: Let's be simple/generous and say DRC→Talib's a wash; (even a 1st round) rookie for (even an aging) Champ isn't, and Harris tore his ACL nearly a month after Miller. MASSIVE downgrade.
0SS: Presumably Nacho, so no change.
+FS: Presumably Ward, who I expect will be better than Moore was even before compartment syndrome got him.

Before anyone leaps to mention mid-round picks/Economy Class FAs: Nearly HALF last years starters are gone/severely injured; the bargain bin and midround rookies can't replace SB starters.

So we've improved in 3 areas, stayed put in 3 and worsened in 9. That's only a quantitative rather than qualitative assessment, and YMMV, but I doubt many objectives ones will vary a lot.

"You may be right; I may be crazy but" I'd bet money the only people saying we're better than we were this time last year are the ones who say that EVERY year.

Joel, I don't think the salary cap would allow us to have Pro Bowlers at every position. Just sayin.

[Joel]

Okay, I'll play.

I can understand concern about Clady, but I'm not that worried at this point.
To paraphrase the Teflon One, are you more worried about him than you were one year ago? If the answer's "yes," that's a minus.


Vasquez was more than "solid" last year.
Sure, but however good he was or wasn't, I expect Vasquez to be Vasquez; he won't be an improvement on HIMSELF (though he has been in the organization a full year now.)


Sanders is our #2 WR, not Latimer or Caldwell.
If you say so; he wasn't the #2 in Pitt, and they didn't have DT (even when Mike Wallace was still around,) so I doubt he's a wash for Decker, let alone an improvement.


Our best DT is Knighton, and Vickerson is probably backing up Sly this year. Not that concerned.
I dispute that first part, at least until Vickersons leg came out of its socket. How much did you hear about Knighton before that?


Can we wait to see what Barrow is before we declare MLB a lost cause?
If you insist; his scouting report still sounds like a slower thinner DJ to me, and DJ was horrifying at MLB, despite being very good at WLB and SLB.


When Von's back, he'll be fine. Until then ... McCray? Our other OLB, as you may remember, is Trevathan, who had a great year and is only getting better.
You're right I overlooked Trevathan; my bad. As far as Miller though, even in 2014, full ACL recovery's far from a given, and they can still SEEM 100% only to blow out again for no apparent reason a year or two later. Regardless, "when Von's back" is even less clear than it was this time last year.


Again, let's see what Roby is before we judge, but my suspicion is he's better than an over the hill Bailey. If Champ were still here, you'd be complaining about his injury history. "Massive" downgrade is BS.
One injury, even a serious one, isn't a history, but with all I hear about lis-francs, yeah, I'd be worried if Champ were still here; aren't we "lucky" we get to worry about how good a rookie is instead of how good an aging first ballot HoFer coming off a serious injury is?


Ward is a SS, so better than Duke.
I'm concerned about FS, as Moore is coming back from injury and we have almost no depth. So ironically, one of the only things you give a plus to is a question mark in my mind.
Yeah, if we're benching Nacho and starting a guy who had his leg muscles slit lengthwise to prevent them exploding half a year ago, he worries me "Moore" than this time last year (which is saying something, all things considered.)


Missed ya, Joel!
Use a sight.

[Joel]

LT should be even. All reports are Clady is recovering nicely - all the hardware is out of his foot and he is excelling in rehab. His return, even if not 100% is a net plus.
Compared to last year? Clady coming off a season-ending injury>fully healthy Clady? How's that work?


Don't know enough about RT.
Did 365 days ago.


Your -QB is just stupid. I doubt Manning will have another year of record-setting numbers, but mainly because we'll focus on being more balanced than any reduction in skill level.
BEST case, 38 year old Manning's no worse than 37 year old Manning. Technically, we could note people were still mumbling about him "losing his zip" this time last year, so you could cite that; turns out those concerns were groundless; it just took more than one offseason to get all his strength back, after which he was better than ever—but we didn't know that this time last year.


RB should be even as well. I've been a big supporter of Moreno, but he had one "good" year out of four. I believe Ball is a more than adequate replacement. Depth could be an issue, but it's not worse than last year.
We had Ball after last years draft, too, and a lot of folks were sure he'd be the starter instead of that bum Moreno. The CHANGE in personnel is instead of Moreno we now have... um Bibbs, is it?


WR - Your comment on Caldwell is kind of silly because Decker was entrenched in that position. I'll give you the minus, but just barely.
Ask Roethlisberger if he'd rather have Sanders (or Caldwell) than Decker and we both know what he'd say. And that Manning would say the same. And not just barely.


DT - Big Vick is expected back, and we have Sly and Knighton. That's even IMO.
It's even IF Vickerson fully recovers, but he dislocated the largest bone in his body, and it supports half his massive frame. It's like Clady: x returning from serious injury CAN'T be better than x.


DE - Doom wasn't even here last year, not sure why you bring him up. We also brought in one of, if not the best DE available. That's a plus.
A full year ago, Doom was still here, and most folks were convinced he was such a huge and critical part of our D we'd find SOME way to re-sign him. Ware's a stud, but it's hard to believe he and post-spine-contusion-and-seizing Wolfe better than Doom, Ayers and fully-healthy Wolfe.


CB is even, if not a plus. Champ barely played last year and was a shadow of the player we all have known and loved. Most reports on our rookie are solid.
Talib, a second rounder and Harris coming off a partial ACL tear a few months ago>DRC, Champ and a fully healthy Harris?

How's THAT work? Is Talib THAT much better than DRC, 'cause that ain't what Broncos fans were saying a few months ago.
Is Harris THAT much better with a repaired ACL than an uninjured one?
Or is a second round rookie just THAT much better than Champ :censored: Bailey?

I envy some of ya'll the ability to see sunrise/set 24/7 thanks to those shades with Thunder on 'em. ;)

[tripp]

I think this team will miss Moreno big time.

Aside from Moreno rarely ever fumbling, his best asset was the fact that he could pick up blocks on passing plays. I saw a few plays where Montee Ball failed to pick up the pass rusher and had a clear shot at Peyton. I also missed the fire Moreno possessed through out all of last year.

[dogfish]

lol!! nice friggin' thread, douchecanoe. . . .

[chazoe60]

We're gonna suck.

[Jsteve01]

Ok Joel agree on LT, SAM, Cb, and FS. Can't agree on the others. Emmanuel adds a game breaker element at the z plu he's an electric returner.

Vick may be coming off injury but sly was dominant in the last 4 games of the regular season. He is the more dynamic player, and knighton is in a contract year so potentially depth is worse but our starters are better.

RB same story starter should be better. Depth is questionable, but another year of seasoning for the young guys should balance that.

[dogfish]

stop kidding yourself, steve. . . we're clearly worse across the board. . . no hope at all. . .

[Simple Jaded]

I had just assumed the moves Denver had made was making them even better, but after careful consideration (Joel is bitching? Check) I feel certain that Denver has improved.

And Joel, before you accuse me of being "people saying we're better than we were this time last year are the ones who say that EVERY year.", remember, I was the whiny little bitch in '09 and '10.

Btw, Bitch, you've been predicting Manning's demise for how many years now? Just stick with it, you'll be right someday.

[underrated29]

We are not going to miss Moreno. You guys know how much I liked knowshon too, but I like ball waaaaasaaaay better. I think ball is being severely underrated by just about everyone. Last year with a cake schedule knowshon had 1k yards and about 500 receiving. This year with a harder schedule I bet ball eclipses the rush yards and gets 60% of knowshons receiving yards.

Ball is legit in the biggest understatement.

I think over the last 6 games only Jamal Charles had a higher ypc. Now ball didn't get a whole lot of touches but he got a lot more than the beginning of the year. This guy is a runner, a grinder. He is going prey on the 6 and 7 man boxes we are going to see!

[BroncoWave]

We are not going to miss Moreno. You guys know how much I liked knowshon too, but I like ball waaaaasaaaay better. I think ball is being severely underrated by just about everyone. Last year with a cake schedule knowshon had 1k yards and about 500 receiving. This year with a harder schedule I bet ball eclipses the rush yards and gets 60% of knowshons receiving yards.

Ball is legit in the biggest understatement.

I think over the last 6 games only Jamal Charles had a higher ypc. Now ball didn't get a whole lot of touches but he got a lot more than the beginning of the year. This guy is a runner, a grinder. He is going prey on the 6 and 7 man boxes we are going to see!

I don't think it's Ball any of us are worried about. It's the depth behind him if he goes down.

[Jsteve01]

We are not going to miss Moreno. You guys know how much I liked knowshon too, but I like ball waaaaasaaaay better. I think ball is being severely underrated by just about everyone. Last year with a cake schedule knowshon had 1k yards and about 500 receiving. This year with a harder schedule I bet ball eclipses the rush yards and gets 60% of knowshons receiving yards.

Ball is legit in the biggest understatement.

I think over the last 6 games only Jamal Charles had a higher ypc. Now ball didn't get a whole lot of touches but he got a lot more than the beginning of the year. This guy is a runner, a grinder. He is going prey on the 6 and 7 man boxes we are going to see!

And in old school Broncos fashion wear down the back seven of opposing defenses

[MOtorboat]

This is a different roster. I think it's hard to compare the two, honestly.

Still the best team in the AFC, if that means anything.

The defense is markedly better.

[aberdien]

It would be nice to have more than one competent running back.

[MOtorboat]

It would be nice to have more than one competent running back.

Really my only worry about this team.

[dogfish]

It would be nice to have more than one competent running back.

CJ sez, "don't sweat it, homie, i got it covered". . .

:defense:

[Timmy!]

I think Bibbs will be on the roster. But I'm confused - you say CJ is unproven, but you want a UDFA to impress? CJ has already proven something by virtue of being with this team last year and learning the system. I doubt Bibbs or anyone else will show any more than CJ did in his first year.

CJ made the roster and shows potential but had what, one good preseason game? Id hardly consider that "proven." So ya, it would be nice if one of the udfas turns out to be a beast. Is CJ better than any of our udfas? Probably....even likely, but maybe we can have the best of both worlds.

[VonDoom]

I think Bibbs will be on the roster. But I'm confused - you say CJ is unproven, but you want a UDFA to impress? CJ has already proven something by virtue of being with this team last year and learning the system. I doubt Bibbs or anyone else will show any more than CJ did in his first year.

CJ made the roster and shows potential but had what, one good preseason game? Id hardly consider that "proven." So ya, it would be nice if one of the udfas turns out to be a beast. Is CJ better than any of our udfas? Probably....even likely, but maybe we can have the best of both worlds.

Right, I think we're basically saying the same thing anyway. A UDFA would have to be amazing to get reps during the season. CJ impressed last TC and still had limited opportunities once the season started. I assume any new back would be behind CJ on the depth chart and therefore have less touches.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

If you say so; he wasn't the #2 in Pitt, and they didn't have DT (even when Mike Wallace was still around,) so I doubt he's a wash for Decker, let alone an improvement.

How do you figure that he wasn't the #2 WR? I don't know where you're getting your info from but he was second on the team in receptions (67) to Antonio Brown (101). Their only other WR of note is Jericho Cotchery (46). Sanders played and started every game for them. Cotchery played in the slot when they went 3 wide.

How does that not make him the #2?
:confused:

[TXBRONC]

Yes I think the Broncos improved the roster and I don't think losing Moreno is going to impact the team significantly. That said, we'll see how it all shakes out.

[Softskull]

I'm completely drinkin' the kool-aid. With a bit of luck in the health department, this team is off to the Super Bowl.

[Simple Jaded]

I think Montee Ball is clearly an upgrade but that's about the extent of it, their actions tell me they're not as serious about beefing up the running game as they let on. I don't watch CSU and I don't see why an UDFA couldn't be as good as Moreno, but it sure doesn't appear to be much of an effort to upgrade the running game.

We'll see about Bibbs but I think they landed the wrong OU RB.

[chazoe60]

Timmy is a douchecanoe is the only real answer.

[Nomad]

I haven't paid attention this offseason, so I'll wait and see when the season starts.
GO BRONCOS!

[TXBRONC]

Timmy is a douchecanoe is the only real answer.

Yeah there was huge disconnect between the poll and the thread.

[Traveler]

This is a different roster. I think it's hard to compare the two, honestly.

Still the best team in the AFC, if that means anything.

The defense is markedly better.

On paper.

[MOtorboat]

On paper.

Yes. I'm pretty sure that's the only thing we can discuss at this point.

[Tned]

On paper.

Well, you can only look at it on paper.

QB: No change

RB: At best even, possible downgrade, since it's the same case of characters minus Moreno. However, with Ball possibly having the experience to carry the load, it could be more productive.

OL: Even +/- The return of Clady, if healthy, gives the line a big boost. I didn't count this as an offseason improvement, because it wasn't through the draft/FA. However, the fact is that his return should be an immediate upgrade to the line. My best guess is that we see Franklin at LG, the combination of Clady/Franklin will be a big upgrade over Clark/Beadles. Only time will tell, but Clady/Franklin/Ramirez/Vasquez/Clark will almost certainly be an upgrade from last year. If Franklin stays at RT, then LG becomes a big unknown.

WR/TE: Even +/- Basically, Decker has been swapped for Sanders. It's possible that Latimer could have an impact this year, but odds are against it. Assuming Welker doesn't lose several steps or have the concussions become a recurring theme, then the WR corp will likely be about even, but that's less due to Sanders being equivalent to Decker and more about the emergence of JT and Manning's ability to get the most out of receivers and spread the ball around.

On defense is where the Broncos appear to be improved, at least on paper.

DL: Improved. Should be greatly improved. Trading Ayers/phillips for Ware is likely an upgrade, combined Sylvester Williams with a year under his belt, Wolf back, Q. Smith healthy and ready to compete, Malik Jackson shining with playing time. Right now, the defensive line looks stacked. Three or four big bodies that can be rotated in the middle, and a lot of speed guys that can play end or inside on passing downs.

LB: Even +/- Considering how much the Broncos played nickel with two LBs, the loss of Woodyard, as much as I hate it, probably won't hurt. Having Miller from the start of the season (assuming no more immature idiocy on his part) will have the greatest impact, along with Trevathon having another year under his belt. Irving seemed to come into his own last year with all the playing time with the injuries to Woodyard and others, and the Miller suspension. There is likely no drop off here, and they should be an improved squad compared to most of last year.

DBs: Improved, assuming Harris comes back healthy. Just going to lump these into one group. Champ played in only five games last year, and most of those he was a shell of his former self and playing injured. So, his loss when comparing 2013 to 2014 is a non factor. So, then we look at losing DRC and replacing him with Talib. This is probably close to a wash, but I will give Talib an edge on being a tougher/nastier player. DRC was more of a speed finesse guy.

TJ Ward will be an immediate upgrade, and should punish his share of WR's going over the middle, not to mention stuffing the box against the run. Nacho started off great, but then trailed off, and the Broncos had a bit of a revolving door at safety. Now, Nacho, Moore, Carter and Bolden should battle for the other starting S spot. The Broncos should be in good shape at safety. If Harris comes back healthy, the secondary should be greatly improved. Before his injury, Harris was statistically the Broncos best corner. When it comes to nickel, the Broncos will have a number of players (Webster, Roby & Carter plus any TC surprises) competing for the nickel/dime spots, or starting RCB is Harris isn't healthy.

All in all, the offense should be close to even with last year, BUT it's possible the loss of Moreno and Decker could hurt a bit. The fact is that if their offense is even close to last year, then even if there is a slight downgrade, it shouldn't be much of an issue. If Franklin does move to LG, when combined with the return of Clady, the Broncos should be a better running team.

On defense, with the DL and secondary improved, and the LB corp about a wash (not counting "upgrade" from the fact that they will have Miller all year), then the defense on paper has been upgrade quite a bit, especially in terms of "toughness" and making opposing receivers pay the price.

[OrangeHoof]

Being as objective as possible....

Losing Moreno and not finding a replacement is troubling. Ball should be improved but, behind him are just question marks.

I'm okay with losing Beadles and think moving Franklin inside and putting Clark at RT with Schofield as the new swingman is fine as long as Clady is 100%. If he's not, we're forced to revert back and that could be trouble.

Replacing Decker with Sanders and Latimer should be a net benefit. Plus, I think we move on from Welker after this season and still have three good WRs for Manning/Ozzie to throw to.

On the defense, so much depends on who returns to full health with Wolfe, Miller and Pork Chop all coming back from significant injury/illnesses. Ware should be better than Phillips and Williams should play a bigger role. Is Knighton's late season push a flash or is he really better?

Barrow helps the LB situation but the key is going to be Miller's health. I'd still like a better answer in the middle but I wasn't thrilled with Woodyard either.

In the secondary, I think Ward will help a lot in the middle and I question if Talib will be worth what DRC gave us. Champ really gave us nothing last year so we will have to see if Harris or Roby can step up on the other side.

Prater and Colquitt, there's nothing to complain about but we will need to find better answers in the kick return game, particularly with Holliday gone.

I clicked "not better or worse" because I think, overall, the Broncos are about the same although i think the tough schedule may knock them down to 10-6. I think the defense, if healthy, should be better while their offense, without Moreno, may be slightly worse. A lot will depend on injury recovery and whether a few suspicious character guys can stay out of trouble.

[Simple Jaded]

Porkchop played the whole season, Hoof, I think you mean Big Vick.

[OrangeHoof]

Porkchop played the whole season, Hoof, I think you mean Big Vick.

Yeah, you're right. I'm getting my slabs of beef mixed up.

[dogfish]

you guys ARE mixed up-- it's pot roast, not porkchop. . . :lol:

[Simple Jaded]

you guys ARE mixed up-- it's pot roast, not porkchop. . . :lol:

Pork Roast!

[Hawgdriver]

Use a sight.

Didn't (decide to) read (yet), but nice closer. Points for Joel.

[Hawgdriver]

Hey, so douchecaneo. What do you mean this offseason? I'm reading about Morambar comparing us to faxgate and Doom. Offseason means after the end of the season right? So have we improved since the Superbowl? This one ought to be easy to line up and knock down. I don't have all the names in front of me, but seems like we got way more physical, lost a hot reality show chick, and hope for the best at RB. I'm not sure what the point of your poll is, but you can pencil us in for knocking the teeth out of Seattle if that's what you want to know.

[Timmy!]

Hey, so douchecaneo. What do you mean this offseason? I'm reading about Morambar comparing us to faxgate and Doom. Offseason means after the end of the season right? So have we improved since the Superbowl? This one ought to be easy to line up and knock down. I don't have all the names in front of me, but seems like we got way more physical, lost a hot reality show chick, and hope for the best at RB. I'm not sure what the point of your poll is, but you can pencil us in for knocking the teeth out of Seattle if that's what you want to know.

I take offense at u calling me a douchecanoe. This aggression will not stand. But yes, I meant our Superbowl roster vs now

[WARHORSE]

I think this team will miss Moreno big time.


Not me.

I think CJ Anderson is gonna be more than ample in backing up Ball, and I wouldnt be surprised if he ends up the starter before the end of the season one way or another.

[CrazyHorse]

By just getting back the players who were injured in the Super Bowl back healthy we should be better.

On paper though it's pretty much a wash. No one really knows. We look more balanced at least.

[WARHORSE]

I dont agree with Joel.

LT-Clady is better than Clark. If he starts, hes better. +
LG-Beadles vs Franklin........no contest whatsoever. Franklin kills in the run game and his 6'7" height brings with it a huge reach. No one will come over him and get to Manning. +
C- Ramirez starts again, and if one of the rookies wins second string, we're better. If not, we're the same. Im thinking former. +
RG-Solid as a rock. Even.
RT-Clark gonna struggle at RT? I love Franklin but hes stiff in the hips bigtime. His reach and strenth helped him get by in pass protection. He was flagged more than anyone else. Peyton takes a ton of weight off of Olinemen. Clark may not drive guys off the ball quite like Franklin, but he was a guard in college too and was a good run blocker. In pass protection he'll be better. If he gets the starting spot. If Schoefield or Painter beat him out, even better. He adds depth across the board. +
WR-We added a first round talent, a very good number 2 in the league who will be better once Peyton gets ahold of him. I also feel DT is in a contract year and after the superbowl, hes going into beastmode. Atminimum.....even.
TE- Julius will be worse or better as a second year starter in his contract year? Nuff said. +
QB-We are worse? HOW? Peyton only has to throw it 15 yards down the field and his mind is as sharp if not sharper than ever. Another year with Oz...... Even at minimum, and keep your eye on Renner. Played very well under center. Even
RB-Ball was averaging over 6ypc over the last five or six games. CJ Anderson is the darkhorse no one is talking about much. A Ball that has pass protection and the offense down is better than Knowshon.... +


RDE-Um.....Demarcus Ware.........better. +
RDT- Knighton....Still young, second year in system........ even.
LDT- Williams had 3 sacks over last few games....+
LDE- Wolfe back in the saddle. + all day long.
SLB- Missed Von first six games, then he comes in too heavy. He'll be coming off injury, but guarantee lighter. Wash. Even.
MLB- Call me dumb, but Barrow sure looks like a stud. A BIG FAST stud too. +
WLB-Trevathan....awesome. Wash
SS- TJ Ward...nuff said. +
FS- Moore comes back, takes over what he was dominating. +
LCB- Talib for Champ....Better.+
RCB- Rookie or coming off injury Chris Harris. Harris ACL was only partially torn. I see him coming back whole. -

[CoachChaz]

Not me.

I think CJ Anderson is gonna be more than ample in backing up Ball, and I wouldnt be surprised if he ends up the starter before the end of the season one way or another.

Glad to see others appreciate CJ's skills.

[Hawgdriver]

I take offense at u calling me a douchecanoe. This aggression will not stand. But yes, I meant our Superbowl roster vs now

Well, you invited it. Besides, I didn't call you a douchecanoe.

Douchecaneo. Worlds apart.

[ForgettingBrandonMarshall]

I think a lot--not all--of the worry regarding our RBs is the fact that one of them is Hillman.

[jhildebrand]

Glad to see others appreciate CJ's skills.

Despite those of us who, during the season and preseason, clamored to see more of him based on his preseason performance being called all kinds of names. Now it is ok for some of them to assume Anderson will be ok. :confused:

[CoachChaz]

Despite those of us who, during the season and preseason, clamored to see more of him based on his preseason performance being called all kinds of names. Now it is ok for some of them to assume Anderson will be ok. :confused:

I wanted him in the late rounds of last years draft and was thrilled when we grabbed him as a UDFA, so I've been on his bandwagon for awhile. I believe I even made an argument at one point that he'd be a better option than Ball. None of that is worth a damn until he gets on the field and proves it, but as it stands...I'm not worried about him as a back-up. Hell...I think he'd be a stud as a starter.

[G_Money]

Okay, let's break it down:

OL: Clady will be back, the only question is how healthy he is. 80% of Clady is still better than 100% of Clark, but I do worry about his foot. It's a tough injury to come back from for a 300 pound dude and still be a Pro-Bowler. We should be deeper on the line than last year's squad, and have flexibility. Might even keep an extra OL as a precaution and for heavy unit play over a TE.Verdict: better than last year.

RB: We lost Moreno, which stings, but if Ball is ready (and he looked far better toward the end of the year than at the beginning when he was a lil overwhelmed) then we should be all right. Moreno was versatile, tho - we may have to mix and match to get everything he offered last season. Until we see how the rooks are and whether CJ or Hillman can step up, we're without a proven backup. Verdict: worse than last year (or at least there are legit questions).

WR: Sanders makes up for most of what we used Decker for, IMO, and Latimer makes the squad deeper. The hope is also that the lingering concussion issues with Welker will now be fully recovered from. He seemed fine at the Derby. ;). Verdict: about the same, maybe a little better if that's even possible.

TE: Same dudes, basically. Verdict: about the same.

QB: Same dude, and I care less about his records and more about his effectiveness. Old age ain't catching up with him yet.Verdict: about the same.

DL: With the addition of Ware and the return of healthy Wolfe, it's better. I'm not sold on Big Vick returning from his hip injury (if you think Clady's foot injury might hamper him, figure out how 350 pounds handles a previously dislocated hip) but if he's back at 100% as well, we're definitely better. Verdict: better than last year.

LB: I'm gonna miss Woodyard. We started getting vulnerable when they replaced him with Trevathan, who might be a better Will backer (debatable, but might be) but is not the leader that Woody was. Woodyard couldn't play the Mike for us, but we're setting the defense up to essentially play without one for a large portion of games. Von will be strictly a pass-rusher for half the games and we'll have a cadre of safeties and pass-covering LBs handling the back end. Still, Von has to fully recover from the ACL surgery first, and you never know how that'll go (not that he was 100% badass after his suspension last year anyway). With that in mind... Verdict: worse than last year (or at least there are legit questions).

DBs: Talib and Ward added to a healthy Moore and Harris should be great, even without DRC. Are they healthy? Harris for one certainly seems to think he is, which is good. Then we have Kayvon in his second year, and the new kid Roby who's as talented as any of em. No more one-legged Champ. No Tony Carter. Verdict: better than last year.

And our positions where we might be worse could actually be BETTER. That's where the question marks are as far as young performance. Can Ball and some of the kids destroy at RB? Can one or two of the young LBs come in and kill it, or can Von return to 2012 form?

We could be MUCH improved over the team that lost in the Super Bowl and was starting 3rd or 4th stringers at some positions.

I'm looking forward to finding out.

~G

[G_Money]

Of more interest: How did the rest of the AFC West do in improving THEIR teams? In the draft, I liked a lot of what KC and Oakland did (unfortunately). We'll see if it helps on the field, but while we beat KC twice last year it's no gimme game, and the Raiders are trying to climb out of doormat status with a lot of money deployed and some very interesting draftpicks.

We could get better and still come back to the pack in the AFC West anyway. We'll see.

[NightTerror218]

I think bibbs will be on roster for return duties.

Holman will be backup going into camp with Cj behind him. But Hillman can easily be cut after his issues and then his attitude after being benched.

Sanders can return as well but better to not have your #2 WR do that.

[NightTerror218]

Of more interest: How did the rest of the AFC West do in improving THEIR teams? In the draft, I liked a lot of what KC and Oakland did (unfortunately). We'll see if it helps on the field, but while we beat KC twice last year it's no gimme game, and the Raiders are trying to climb out of doormat status with a lot of money deployed and some very interesting draftpicks.

We could get better and still come back to the pack in the AFC West anyway. We'll see.

Oakland killed it in draft. KC took a lot of risk but still have major holes at WR amd OL. Chargers will be our competition in the west.

[TXBRONC]

Oakland killed it in draft. KC took a lot of risk but still have major holes at WR amd OL. Chargers will be our competition in the west.

Did you watch NFLAM this morning? :D

They said the same thing about the K.C. They didn't fill any major holes especially at wide receiver and offensive line.

[G_Money]

I think bibbs will be on roster for return duties.

Holman will be backup going into camp with Cj behind him. But Hillman can easily be cut after his issues and then his attitude after being benched.

Sanders can return as well but better to not have your #2 WR do that.

We also added Isaiah Burse for return duties. Bibbs and Burse might split it, if both make it. Caldwell might be out of a job if that happens. DT, Sanders, Latimer, Welker and Burse is 5. We took 5 wides out of the pre-season last year.

Should be some good camp competition this year. :salute:

~G

[G_Money]

Did you watch NFLAM this morning? :D

They said the same thing about the K.C. They didn't fill any major holes especially at wide receiver and offensive line.

Depends where they use D'Anthony Thomas, I guess, but Andy Reed puts his offenses together in interesting ways. It's easier to take an awful team and make em decent than to take a decent team and make em great.

We'll see if the chiefs are up for the next stage.

~G

[NightTerror218]

Did you watch NFLAM this morning? :D

They said the same thing about the K.C. They didn't fill any major holes especially at wide receiver and offensive line.

I have basic cable and do not get NFL channel. I just paid attention. To our division. KC lost LTS and LG. They will move last years number one pick over to LT but Albert was major loss. Rookie thomas will be interesting. Could be McCluster or worse.

[TXBRONC]

Depends where they use D'Anthony Thomas, I guess, but Andy Reed puts his offenses together in interesting ways. It's easier to take an awful team and make em decent than to take a decent team and make em great.

We'll see if the chiefs are up for the next stage.

~G

From what I've heard D'Anthony Thomas is in the same mold as Dexter McCuster whom they lost to free agency. If that's the case then it sounds like they replaced one utility player with another.

[Buff]

The only offseason move that I'm still on the fence about was bringing in Demarcus Ware. I just worry that we paid full price for damaged goods. The fact that he's not 100% this offseason worries me.

I would have rather had Jared Allen or maybe even Shaun Phillips and someone else. If Jared Allen ends up having an awesome year and Ware ends up hurt, then I think history will show that Elway might have been a little hasty in his negotiation tactics.

Otherwise I feel like we've upgraded virtually everywhere that I was hoping except for RB.

[BroncoNut]

like a lot of things in life Timmy, we wont' really know what's going to happen until it does. we may look back and say, yeah, we did improve the roster, or look back and say, no we did not. time will tell I guess

[BroncoNut]

do we still have Peyton and Knighton? yes,. how about Miller? yes. I would say that we lost some good men, but we proabley imporved. Dumerville probably the biggest loss, the one the pissed me off most. like Buff, I'm a little wary of D. Ware.

[Valar Morghulis]

I think history will show that Elway might have been a little hasty in his negotiation tactics.

Possibly - but it sets a precendent where players know if Elway makes an offer, he is not messing about, that might stop the likes of DRC holding out for more in future. Even if it bites us in the ass with Ware - i think in the long run this strategy will pay of for the club.

[BroncoNut]

Possibly - but it sets a precendent where players know if Elway makes an offer, he is not messing about, that might stop the likes of DRC holding out for more in future. Even if it bites us in the ass with Ware - i think in the long run this strategy will pay of for the club.

ok buff, you can put your clothes on now

[OrangeFanatic]

I think this team will miss Moreno big time.

As much as I never liked no-show, I'm feeling the same thing...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The oddsmakers feel the Broncos have improved

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/6077/seahawks-lose-ground-in-the-betting-odds

[Hawgdriver]

The oddsmakers feel the Broncos have improved

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/6077/seahawks-lose-ground-in-the-betting-odds

That seems like good information. A lot of analysis by well-paid professionals goes into that result. Still, those same oddsmakers didn't see 43-8 coming.

[7DnBrnc53]

If you say so; he wasn't the #2 in Pitt, and they didn't have DT (even when Mike Wallace was still around,) so I doubt he's a wash for Decker, let alone an improvement.

Yes Sanders was, Joel. He was the other starter along with Antonio Brown, and he was second to Brown with 67 receptions.

[Simple Jaded]

Yes Sanders was, Joel. He was the other starter along with Antonio Brown, and he was second to Brown with 67 receptions.

Standby for War and Peace style response using big words and witty passive aggressiveness that demonstrate how Joel may not be right but never wrong.

[Hawgdriver]

A receiving corps of

1. DT
2. Welker
3. Sanders
4. Caldwell
5. Latimer
6. JT
7. Tamme

is arguably better than a corps of

1. DT
2. Decker
3. Welker
4. Caldwell
5. JT
6. Tamme

Even after an injury or two it's a great set or receivers.

[jhildebrand]

I am not sure if the Broncos improved via the draft. These guys haven't played a down in the NFL as of yet. I am also not sure the idea of drafting positions at high picks that were just addressed in FA with high dollar. Seems a bit superfluous to me.

[Ravage!!!]

I am not sure if the Broncos improved via the draft. These guys haven't played a down in the NFL as of yet. I am also not sure the idea of drafting positions at high picks that were just addressed in FA with high dollar. Seems a bit superfluous to me.

Its smart. Harris hasn't proved to be back after his inury, and Talib WILL miss time during the season, because he always does. We NEEDED a corner, no matter what. We needed youth at WR. Can NEVER have too much talent at WR and corner. Our OL obviously needed bodies and depth. Seems to me that this draft hit everything this team was looking for.

[dogfish]

I am not sure if the Broncos improved via the draft. These guys haven't played a down in the NFL as of yet. I am also not sure the idea of drafting positions at high picks that were just addressed in FA with high dollar. Seems a bit superfluous to me.

you can't have enough good corners-- let alone too many. . .

[TXBRONC]

you can't have enough good corners-- let alone too many. . .

Or pass rushers. :nod:

[TXBRONC]

I am not sure if the Broncos improved via the draft. These guys haven't played a down in the NFL as of yet. I am also not sure the idea of drafting positions at high picks that were just addressed in FA with high dollar. Seems a bit superfluous to me.

We lost two corners during the offseason so getting Talib only filled one vacancy.

[jhildebrand]

Its smart. Harris hasn't proved to be back after his inury, and Talib WILL miss time during the season, because he always does. We NEEDED a corner, no matter what. We needed youth at WR. Can NEVER have too much talent at WR and corner. Our OL obviously needed bodies and depth. Seems to me that this draft hit everything this team was looking for.

Other than MLB which has been an issue since Al Wilson retired. This team lacked a major leader, let alone a vocal leader, on Defense. I guess they are absolutely confident, after missing out on Jackson and Mosley, that Larentee McCray or Quanterus Smith might be able to be that guy. Or perhaps Irving will finally step up.


you can't have enough good corners-- let alone too many. . .

I would rather have too many pass rushers and D line than DB's. If you can get pressure with the front 4 like seattle does, you don't have to be a DB heavy roster. Also, we carried quite a few DBs last year only to have them lining up 8 yards off like Slowik and Bates were back in town. If you do that or if you allow the opposing QB forever to throw from a clean pocket you can have a roster full of Sherman, Revis, Peterson, et al and it doesn't matter. +/- is dictated by the front 4 more than the back end. Our +/- wasn't very good and was down right poor most of the season.


Or pass rushers. :nod:

Agreed.


We lost two corners during the offseason so getting Talib only filled one vacancy.

Right. But Champ was already coming off the bench and the team still has Kayvon.

For me, this draft would have been a lot more tolerable if Elway hadn't centered the Osweiler draft around Osweiler. LaVontae David was there for the taking. I was calling for him before the draft and at the time of the Os pick. He would be a pretty good solution for this team. As of now it appears this team will go for broke with offense despite just having the most potent offense in NFL history stonewalled by a great defense. Seems a bit like a head in the sand approach to me.

[Simple Jaded]

Get the **** over the Osweiler pick, already. Lavonte David plays the same position that Woodyard played, right when he was cementing himself as a starter and leader.

[jhildebrand]

Get the **** over the Osweiler pick, already.

Who the F are you to tell me to get over anything? :confused: Get over yourself! If you don't like my mentioning Os, move along!

If I have a problem with the Osweiler pick, I am going to say something about it. It is a valid point for multiple reasons. It is especially valid when the GM of the team says: "Plan B? There is no plan B! We are going Plan A" and then promptly uses a valuable draft pick (not to mention centers THE ENTIRE DRAFT around) that doesn't support the "plan A" line on a player who can't help the team with regard to "plan A." It should be questioned especially knowing what we know and seeing our team get stomped in a SB-something that hasn't happened in a SB for some time!

[Simple Jaded]

Who the F are you to tell me to get over anything? :confused: Get over yourself! If you don't like my mentioning Os, move along!

If I have a problem with the Osweiler pick, I am going to say something about it. It is a valid point for multiple reasons. It is especially valid when the GM of the team says: "Plan B? There is no plan B! We are going Plan A" and then promptly uses a valuable draft pick (not to mention centers THE ENTIRE DRAFT around) that doesn't support the "plan A" line on a player who can't help the team with regard to "plan A." It should be questioned especially knowing what we know and seeing our team get stomped in a SB-something that hasn't happened in a SB for some time!

The Broncos had one QB under contract going into that draft, one, and he was coming off IR so if you can't see the need for Osweiler over a backup WLB than you're an idiot. Borderline retarded.

You have to have a Plan B, that was Osweiler.

Btw, you know what else is borderline retarded? The notion that a 220lb backup WLB woulda made the difference in 43-8.

[dogfish]

As of now it appears this team will go for broke with offense despite just having the most potent offense in NFL history stonewalled by a great defense. Seems a bit like a head in the sand approach to me.

J, how do you even say this with a straight face when we signed demarcus freakin' ware? we went after jared allen, we went after revis, we went after darryl smith and jarius byrd. . . we signed talib, we signed ward, and we spent our first round pick on a defensive player. . . this whole off-season has been about rebuilding the defense. . .

:defense:

[MOtorboat]

J, how do you even say this with a straight face when we signed demarcus freakin' ware? we went after jared allen, we went after revis, we went after darryl smith and jarius byrd. . . we signed talib, we signed ward, and we spent our first round pick on a defensive player. . . this whole off-season has been about rebuilding the defense. . .

:defense:

Yeah, the whole offseason has been nothing but trying to build the defense.

[jhildebrand]

The Broncos had one QB under contract going into that draft, one, and he was coming off IR so if you can't see the need for Osweiler over a backup WLB than you're an idiot. Borderline retarded.

You have to have a Plan B, that was Osweiler.

Btw, you know what else is borderline retarded? The notion that a 220lb backup WLB woulda made the difference in 43-8.

Retarded is that poor pathetic use of logic you just spewed all over the screen. Absolutely stupid retarded is thinking a team is going to have two top notch QBs on the roster and happy. A chimpanzee deep in the grips of syphilis could have come up with something better. So because this team needed a "plan B" they needed to center an entire draft around Osweiler? Please! They could have had that year's Zach Dysert just like they did last year. No different than the Colts having had the ever powerful Jim Sorgi's and Curtis Painter's around. Your idea is so popular I see the Colts centered their draft around a back up QB this year. :rolleyes:

Finally, I can say with certainty that having a LaVontae David around or any other decent MLB prospect around would have been far better in the past couple of years than trotting out 62 year old Keith Brooking and 49 year Paris Lenon. Almost anything would have been better.

By the way, to pile on the retarded train that you seem to be commandeering, if Manning plays put his contract, there is a chance Osweiler doesn't even play for this team. Then what good is/was he? Do me a favor and choke and that shit sandwich you seem to be eating.

[jhildebrand]

J, how do you even say this with a straight face when we signed demarcus freakin' ware? we went after jared allen, we went after revis, we went after darryl smith and jarius byrd. . . we signed talib, we signed ward, and we spent our first round pick on a defensive player. . . this whole off-season has been about rebuilding the defense. . .

:defense:
I like the Ward pick up. A LOT. Especially knowing Moore and his injury. I like Talib better than Revis. So that is a win. I like the Ware pick up but he has to show he is healthy. At the end of the day, the team tried to address MLB with Jackson from Cleveland and lost out. They entertained getting Mosley but in my opinion shouldn't have given up there. This team simply doesn't have the presence at MLB'er that it needs.

I see the talent of Roby but he wasn't the most polished and NFL ready corner in the draft. Coaching him up remains to be seen. Again, my reservation comes from using multiple picks on the same position over multiple years AND using a HIGH DOLLAR FA at the position.

I guess all I am saying is it feels head in the sand in the approach to some degree. I would be ok with a close to record setting offense and a better D especially in the sacks and +/- department.


Yeah, the whole offseason has been nothing but trying to build the defense.
Trying. DT was a position of need that sat out there and was still a question mark going into last year. So much so that many clamored for Dareus over Miller. MLB is a position that has been a need for some time. It just would have been nice to see it addressed before the Lumin Barrow pick.

[MOtorboat]

I'm going to thoroughly disagree.

I'm not sure what else you want them to do? :whoknows:

They signed a safety, a cornerback, a pass rusher, drafted a young corner with speed and drafted a linebacker.

[Simple Jaded]

Retarded is that poor pathetic use of logic you just spewed all over the screen. Absolutely stupid retarded is thinking a team is going to have two top notch QBs on the roster and happy. A chimpanzee deep in the grips of syphilis could have come up with something better. So because this team needed a "plan B" they needed to center an entire draft around Osweiler? Please! They could have had that year's Zach Dysert just like they did last year. No different than the Colts having had the ever powerful Jim Sorgi's and Curtis Painter's around. Your idea is so popular I see the Colts centered their draft around a back up QB this year. :rolleyes:

Finally, I can say with certainty that having a LaVontae David around or any other decent MLB prospect around would have been far better in the past couple of years than trotting out 62 year old Keith Brooking and 49 year Paris Lenon. Almost anything would have been better.

By the way, to pile on the retarded train that you seem to be commandeering, if Manning plays put his contract, there is a chance Osweiler doesn't even play for this team. Then what good is/was he?

Denver needed a QB, they got one, if that's chimpanzee logic than he'd make a solid NFL GM.

If Osweiler never plays a down for Denver he'd have served the same exact role as any other backup QB in the history of backup QB's, up to and including whatever your genius Plan B would have been. It's literally just that simple.

Btw, the Colts didn't have to center anything around Plan B, they had a thoroughly healthy starter and a backup.

[MOtorboat]

Fair enough, MO. I wanted them at one point in the last 3 years to address MLB with a 1 or a 2 as opposed to using those picks on positions they addressed in a previous draft AND FA. How is that not clear? Seems to me LB is about the only position they haven't drafted high and multiple times. Barrow is a small/undersized LBer I am not sure how much he is going to be able to mix it up from MLB. At least we didn't take another stab at RB in the higher rounds.

They don't use a MLB.

[jhildebrand]

Denver needed a QB, they got one, if that's chimpanzee logic than he'd make a solid NFL GM.

If Osweiler never plays a down for Denver he'd have served the same exact role as any other backup QB in the history of backup QB's, up to and including whatever your genius Plan B would have been. It's literally just that simple.

Btw, the Colts didn't have to center anything around Plan B, they had a thoroughly healthy starter and a backup.

So Osweiler sits the bench better than Zach Dysert. Gotcha! Good thing we got him in the 3rd round so he can man the clipboard in a baseball cap like he does. After all, a PS QB or a 7th rounder like Dysert just can't be trusted with that function while using that 3rd and possibly 2nd on someone that would actually see the field.

[jhildebrand]

They don't use a MLB.

They did for Miller's entire absence. It just didn't seem like it because it was Paris Lenon. Before Lenon it was Brooking. Also, if they didn't use a MLB why did so many here state their desire for Denver to pursue Urlacher :confused:

[jhildebrand]

I guess the bright side is we won't be wasting a roster spot on Holiday anymore. Even better if T Carter is done too!

[MOtorboat]

They did for Miller's entire absence. It just didn't seem like it because it was Paris Lenon. Before Lenon it was Brooking. Also, if they didn't use a MLB why did so many here state their desire for Denver to pursue Urlacher :confused:

They don't know what they're talking about.

As long as Miller is healthy, this team will be in a 3-4, 3-3 hybrid. It's simply not a priority, no matter what the fans say.

They did pursue D'Qwell Jackson, a 3-4 inside thumper...

[Simple Jaded]

So Osweiler sits the bench better than Zach Dysert. Gotcha! Good thing we got him in the 3rd round so he can man the clipboard in a baseball cap like he does. After all, a PS QB or a 7th rounder like Dysert just can't be trusted with that function while using that 3rd and possibly 2nd on someone that would actually see the field.

2nd round, Osweiler was a 2nd round pick. :D

And teams don't draft QB's based on who sits the bench better, but I'm fairly sure you know that.

Shit, I don't even like Osweiler, or Dysert.

[TXBRONC]

Right. But Champ was already coming off the bench and the team still has Kayvon.

For me, this draft would have been a lot more tolerable if Elway hadn't centered the Osweiler draft around Osweiler. LaVontae David was there for the taking. I was calling for him before the draft and at the time of the Os pick. He would be a pretty good solution for this team. As of now it appears this team will go for broke with offense despite just having the most potent offense in NFL history stonewalled by a great defense. Seems a bit like a head in the sand approach to me.

Denver carries five corners they lost two main contributors and they needed to be replaced.

I don't see how this a head in the sand approach when you consider what they did free agency. Elway has shown he knows what he's doing.

[chazoe60]

I'm still pissed about the Tommy Maddox pick.

[Mike]

Denver improved the team. Health will determine whether they get to and win the SB.

[Tned]

A receiving corps of

1. DT
2. Welker
3. Sanders
4. Caldwell
5. Latimer
6. JT
7. Tamme

is arguably better than a corps of

1. DT
2. Decker
3. Welker
4. Caldwell
5. JT
6. Tamme

Even after an injury or two it's a great set or receivers.

Since it's unlikely that Latimer will win the starting job as a rookie (it happens, but rare for WR), it will come down to whether or not Sanders can be at least as productive as Decker. Tripping on blades of grass aside, Decker had been very productive during his time in Denver. He wasn't as physical against tough corners as I would like, but he was still very productive. So, right now I look at the WR group as taking a small step backwards, but with Manning's ability to spread the ball around, it might be a non-factor. Also, that could totally change if Latimer is productive as a rookie or if Sanders jumps to another level.

[Tned]

I like the Ward pick up. A LOT. Especially knowing Moore and his injury. I like Talib better than Revis. So that is a win. I like the Ware pick up but he has to show he is healthy. At the end of the day, the team tried to address MLB with Jackson from Cleveland and lost out. They entertained getting Mosley but in my opinion shouldn't have given up there. This team simply doesn't have the presence at MLB'er that it needs.

I see the talent of Roby but he wasn't the most polished and NFL ready corner in the draft. Coaching him up remains to be seen. Again, my reservation comes from using multiple picks on the same position over multiple years AND using a HIGH DOLLAR FA at the position.

I guess all I am saying is it feels head in the sand in the approach to some degree. I would be ok with a close to record setting offense and a better D especially in the sacks and +/- department.


Trying. DT was a position of need that sat out there and was still a question mark going into last year. So much so that many clamored for Dareus over Miller. MLB is a position that has been a need for some time. It just would have been nice to see it addressed before the Lumin Barrow pick.

What does DT have to do with this offseason? Nothing, they are stacked there. MLB is a questionable need, because they spend so much time in nickel, and as mentioned, due to the way Miller is used. That said, Klis reported they tried trading with four teams to move up to get Mosley.

It's very obvious the team's primary focus was to get faster and tougher on defense. Right now, except for MLB, the defense looks to be greatly improved (experience, return from injury/suspension, new additions).

I'm no sure where you are getting this head in the sand stuff. Reading your posts, you would think the Broncos did nothing but pick up offensive free agents and draft offensive players.

[broncofaninfla]

In Elway and company I trust. I was hoping for a sexy addition at Mike but all in all I feel we improved, especially in regards to depth.

[TXBRONC]

A receiving corps of

1. DT
2. Welker
3. Sanders
4. Caldwell
5. Latimer
6. JT
7. Tamme

is arguably better than a corps of

1. DT
2. Decker
3. Welker
4. Caldwell
5. JT
6. Tamme

Even after an injury or two it's a great set or receivers.

Caldwell was 4th on the depth on chart of wide receivers but he was more like a 5th or 6th option. J.Thomas was actually the 4th option. How Latimer fits in remains to be seen. I think it's highly likely that initially Caldwell plays head of Latimer while they break him slowly and hopefully by end of the year Latimer is playing ahead of Caldwell. If Latimer can come up with about 15 receptions then I believe that's pretty good rookie year in this offense and anything beyond that is gravy.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

In a perfect world Caldwell is highly motivated by Latimer being drafted and works his tail off and has a 1k yard season.

[TXBRONC]

I like the Ward pick up. A LOT. Especially knowing Moore and his injury. I like Talib better than Revis. So that is a win. I like the Ware pick up but he has to show he is healthy. At the end of the day, the team tried to address MLB with Jackson from Cleveland and lost out. They entertained getting Mosley but in my opinion shouldn't have given up there. This team simply doesn't have the presence at MLB'er that it needs.

I see the talent of Roby but he wasn't the most polished and NFL ready corner in the draft. Coaching him up remains to be seen. Again, my reservation comes from using multiple picks on the same position over multiple years AND using a HIGH DOLLAR FA at the position.

I guess all I am saying is it feels head in the sand in the approach to some degree. I would be ok with a close to record setting offense and a better D especially in the sacks and +/- department.


Trying. DT was a position of need that sat out there and was still a question mark going into last year. So much so that many clamored for Dareus over Miller. MLB is a position that has been a need for some time. It just would have been nice to see it addressed before the Lumin Barrow pick.

No J defensive tackle was in no way, shape, or form a need going into last season. Through free agency they brought in Knighton and followed that up a month or two later by drafting Slyvester Williams. How do you know that Denver didn't even try to get Mosely or even one of the other highly rated middle linebackers? A person has to be in the war room to know that.

I don't understand how anyone can think that Elway that has clueless when a person looks at what's happened since he became the V.P. of Player Operations or whatever his exact title is.

[Cugel]

We're better at safety and DE, but it's hard to see how much of anywhere else, and we're worse many places.

-LT: I'm far more worried about Clady than this time last year; he played on a bad knee throughout most of 2011, then missed most of last year with a lis-franc injury to that foot.
+LG: Here's hoping Franklin transitions well; I concede he probably can't be much worse than Beadles.
+C: Ramirez will start unless someone outplays him, and he's better than Walton (Koppen was better than both, but this time last year we hadn't un-retired him due to Waltons injury.) +
0RG: Vasquez should still be solid, but he was last year, too.
-RT: Clark? Schofield? The latters scouting report says he struggles with quick edge rushers as much as Clark and Franklin do (which is a lot,) and neither have Franklins push.
-QB: A year older, and unlikely to shatter all the records he set last year.
-RB: Starter's gone; hopefully Ball can passblock now—and so can his backup (whoever that is....)
-WR: #2 is gone; I doubt a second round rookie's ready to fill his shoes, and if Caldwell could he'd have done it last year.

This is all totally wrong! Completely!

The Broncos could have kept their OL intact, but after the miserable performance in the SB they didn't want to! That was the biggest reason the Broncos were not competitive with the Seahawks; because they got consistent pressure in Manning's face with just 4 DL, and never blitzing.

Thus, they moved Franklin to G where his lack of mobility won't hinder him. Clark held up pretty well at LT all year for a backup. He certainly deserves his shot at RT. He's not a road grader like Franklin, but to argue that he "struggles with quick edge rushers" is idiotic. What do you think he faced all last year at LT? The opponent's speed rusher! He did pretty well.

Schofield is a rookie and I think will backup this season, although Elways says they think he can compete to start at RT this season. But the Broncos have more flexibility at OL than at any time in recent memory. They also brought in Montgomery to start at C allowing Ramirez, who underachieved in the SB to move to LG, which is his more natural position and to compete with Franklin.

The OL will have 4 new starters from the SB and should be considerably better this season if Clady is fully recovered (he's had a full year to recover so he should be good to go).

And you blithely assume Clady won't be healthy to start the season. Nothing I've heard indicates anything like that. Clady is the best Offensive player not named Manning. If he's good to go in 2014 as I expect that's HUGE. They could really have used him in the SB!

The Broncos have Sanders who had 67 catches last year to replace Decker, and have drafted Cody Latimer who is a great blocking WR who is 6'3" 215 and runs a 4.38 40. He's bigger and faster than Decker and is a better blocker than Decker. He's also a rookie, but they have Caldwell and Sanders to start ahead of them


-DT: This time in 2013 our best DT wasn't coming off a dislocated hip (at 330+
-DE: This time last year was pre-Faxgate; Ware's a stud, but is he better than Doom+Ayers? Doubtful, and even if a healthy Quanterus Smith is more hit than hype it's still a net loss.


Again, Vickerson should be completely recovered from injury by the start of the season. Pot Roast proved he's an "immense asset." This is the best Broncos set of DTs since Trevor Pryce more than a decade ago.

Is Ware better than Doom + Ayers? A blocking dummy is better than Ayers! The Broncos certainly agree since they didn't even make Ayers any kind of offer. NONE. Good-bye and good riddance to Mr. Irrelevant.

Doom got 9.5 sacks last year for the Ravens. Shaun Phillips was better with 10. It was a big cap savings that Doom screwed up his fax. They got better production for less money. They won't miss Doom at all in 2014. Plus, Derek Wolfe says he's 100% recovered from the nervous system collapse of last year. The Broncos will be better on the DL even if he is limited.

Ware is an All-Pro and should be 100% healthy for the first time in 3 years, unless he suffers a different injury. If so, the Broncos pass rush is better than at any time in team history. Team history EVER. Ware + Miller is a LOT better than Miller and Doom. Ware can move inside or outside on any given play and will command constant double-teams. Doom does not do that. All too often he was handled by 1 OT. Nobody can do that with Ware.


0MLB: Still as crappy as the whole past decade; I guess once you hit rock bottom and stay there it CAN'T get worse. Yea...? :twitch:

-OLB: Our former DRoY Pro Bowler's no longer suspended 6 games—he's on IR with an ACL torn just before Christmas. Woodyard's in TN: Anyone know EITHER of our starters? HUGE downgrade.

The word from Miller's workout partners is that his recovery is progressing great and he should be fine by starting day 2014. He's about 20 lbs. lighter and this is restoring his quickness. No sign of any off-field incidents. With him and Ware on the field together who do you block? You can't double-team both of them all the time and leaving either in 1 on 1 coverage is going to cause big trouble for QBs.


-CB: Let's be simple/generous and say DRC→Talib's a wash; (even a 1st round) rookie for (even an aging) Champ isn't, and Harris tore his ACL nearly a month after Miller. MASSIVE downgrade.

This just gets more and more insane. Talib is a LOT better than DRC. He's a much better run defender, and is considered a top 5 CB in the NFL. Just ask Belichick who was very unhappy they lost Talib in the AFC Championship game. He said that was the key to their losing the game.

The Broncos certainly think so. When DRC rejected their first offer, they didn't offer him more money. They went out and signed Talib for the same guaranteed money DRC was demanding. MASSIVE upgrade overall. Both are good cover guys, but Talib is tougher and is a much better tackler against the run.

As for Champ, he barely played at all last year, and when he did he was burned toast. Champ is pretty much washed up at 36. Losing him is certainly not going to hurt the team. They're not losing the 2005 Champ Bailey! Did you even watch the SB?

Chris Harris's injury is certainly something to watch to see if he's 100% to start the season or not. But they expect Roby to compete to start at the #2 CB position this season. (Elway just said that). Until he's healthy they'll have to use Kayvon Webster, who definitely improved as the season progressed last year after a shaky start. They have expressed a lot of confidence in him. Bottom line, they are deeper and stronger at CB than last year when Bailey was out hurt with a Lis Franc and ineffective all year and Kayvon Webster was a rookie.


0SS: Presumably Nacho, so no change.

+FS: Presumably Ward, who I expect will be better than Moore was even before compartment syndrome got him.

You skip over this as if it's no big deal. It's a HUGE deal. Safety was probably the Broncos weakest area last year. Now with Ward it isn't. He was a top FA this off-season and his signing is a big step up. He's a ferocious and tenacious defender of exactly the type the Broncos have been missing since John Lynch retired. Seattle won the SB with guys like Sherman and Thomas with tough physical play in the secondary. The Broncos have decided they need some of the same.


Before anyone leaps to mention mid-round picks/Economy Class FAs: Nearly HALF last years starters are gone/severely injured; the bargain bin and midround rookies can't replace SB starters.

So we've improved in 3 areas, stayed put in 3 and worsened in 9. That's only a quantitative rather than qualitative assessment, and YMMV, but I doubt many objectives ones will vary a lot.

Aside from RB there's NOT ONE area where the Broncos are weaker than last year. Not one. And RB is the one area where a rookie can come in and make an immediate impact. They will need one or more of the rookies to step up and learn the system and push for playing time behind Montee Ball. But, Ball played a significant role last season in his rookie year and there's no reason C.J. Anderson can't do so this year in his 2nd year. As for the other undrafted FAs, NONE of them are important.

It will be a nice bonus if any of them make the roster, but none are essential. Personally, I'd like to see Capri Bibbs make the team and get into the rotation, but if he doesn't someone else will.

This team is a lot deeper than last year. They've shored up every significant weakness outside of MLB and there they are counting on Nate Irving. We will see if their confidence is well placed, but Elway's theory is that defenses are in nickel "65% of the time" (he said this in his latest interview on 104.3 The Fan - The Drive). Thus, their LBs have to be able to cover. They can do that.

[Fire Bronc]

I haven't posted anything on a Broncos forum since the old freak days, but this thread has gotten me motivated again. I couldn't agree more with Cugel, I believe Denver has improved considerably since the Superbowl, and since the start of last year. I don't believe losing Moreno will hurt either. Last year we had Moreno and a struggling Ball and Hillman to start the season. This year we have a much better Ball, a hopefully improved Hillman, and we need CJ or one of the rookies to step up, I have high hopes for both of our free agent backs, especially Bibbs. For those that believe losing Decker will hurt us, IMHO he was good, but overated. Sanders will add another dimension that we never had with Decker with his speed and run after the catch ability. He caught 67 balls in Pitt last year, with Manning, those numbers should go up considerably. I know that there are question marks with Harris, Miller, Clady, Moore and Big Vic, but with medical technology these days, recovery times are vastly improved (i.e. Petersen and Charles), I don't believe the injuries will be that big of an issue.

[Ravage!!!]

Well, i think Decker was a bit underrated around here. But that's just a difference of opinion. Welcome to the boards, Fire. :beer:

[Hawgdriver]

I haven't posted anything on a Broncos forum since the old freak days, but this thread has gotten me motivated again. I couldn't agree more with Cugel, I believe Denver has improved considerably since the Superbowl, and since the start of last year. I don't believe losing Moreno will hurt either. Last year we had Moreno and a struggling Ball and Hillman to start the season. This year we have a much better Ball, a hopefully improved Hillman, and we need CJ or one of the rookies to step up, I have high hopes for both of our free agent backs, especially Bibbs. For those that believe losing Decker will hurt us, IMHO he was good, but overated. Sanders will add another dimension that we never had with Decker with his speed and run after the catch ability. He caught 67 balls in Pitt last year, with Manning, those numbers should go up considerably. I know that there are question marks with Harris, Miller, Clady, Moore and Big Vic, but with medical technology these days, recovery times are vastly improved (i.e. Petersen and Charles), I don't believe the injuries will be that big of an issue.

Welcome.

[Buff]

I haven't posted anything on a Broncos forum since the old freak days, but this thread has gotten me motivated again. I couldn't agree more with Cugel, I believe Denver has improved considerably since the Superbowl, and since the start of last year. I don't believe losing Moreno will hurt either. Last year we had Moreno and a struggling Ball and Hillman to start the season. This year we have a much better Ball, a hopefully improved Hillman, and we need CJ or one of the rookies to step up, I have high hopes for both of our free agent backs, especially Bibbs. For those that believe losing Decker will hurt us, IMHO he was good, but overated. Sanders will add another dimension that we never had with Decker with his speed and run after the catch ability. He caught 67 balls in Pitt last year, with Manning, those numbers should go up considerably. I know that there are question marks with Harris, Miller, Clady, Moore and Big Vic, but with medical technology these days, recovery times are vastly improved (i.e. Petersen and Charles), I don't believe the injuries will be that big of an issue.

What was your name at the Freak?

[Fire Bronc]

Same name and avatar on the freak.

[broncohead]

Well, i think Decker was a bit underrated around here. But that's just a difference of opinion. Welcome to the boards, Fire. :beer:

Agreed but i believe his production will easily be replaced because of the weapons we have. DT, JT, Welker, and Sanders. Sanders doesn't have to match Deckers production not that Sanders can't he just doesn't have to. I think offensively it's more of a question whether Ball or another RB can match Moreno's consistency. I think Ball is the guy but I just need to see it.

[Ravage!!!]

Agreed but i believe his production will easily be replaced because of the weapons we have. DT, JT, Welker, and Sanders. Sanders doesn't have to match Deckers production not that Sanders can't he just doesn't have to. I think offensively it's more of a question whether Ball or another RB can match Moreno's consistency. I think Ball is the guy but I just need to see it.

We've seen how the NFL execs feel about how important RB is. They didn't play the FAs much, and they waited longer than any other draft to take the first RB this year. I don't worry about replacing Moreno's ability, for he certainly isn't special.

Decker played well with guys like Orton and Tebow throwng the ball. Sure, Manning can make WRs have better stats than they would with other QBs, but I believe that Decker would have been VERY valuable for our NEXT QB. Big bodied and sure handed, Decker was better about getting open and finding the right hole in the defense that many want to give him credit for. Welker is GONE after this season.

So I'm pumped for our newly drafted WR and hoping he's everything I want him to be.

[broncohead]

We've seen how the NFL execs feel about how important RB is. They didn't play the FAs much, and they waited longer than any other draft to take the first RB this year. I don't worry about replacing Moreno's ability, for he certainly isn't special.

Decker played well with guys like Orton and Tebow throwng the ball. Sure, Manning can make WRs have better stats than they would with other QBs, but I believe that Decker would have been VERY valuable for our NEXT QB. Big bodied and sure handed, Decker was better about getting open and finding the right hole in the defense that many want to give him credit for. Welker is GONE after this season.

So I'm pumped for our newly drafted WR and hoping he's everything I want him to be.

Moreno isn't special but his greatest asset was that he did everything good. Understood the system and could pass block and catch out of the backfield. Ball showed stone hands and had trouble with the audibles and system as a whole. Hopefully a year under him and a full offseason with the 1's will get him there. Maybe it won't. We won't know till the whistle blows. As for Decker he would have been a great asset for the next QB but with his price it would have hurt the team more then helped. We drafted a WR at the right time to learn the system before Welker's contract is up

[TXBRONC]

I haven't posted anything on a Broncos forum since the old freak days, but this thread has gotten me motivated again. I couldn't agree more with Cugel, I believe Denver has improved considerably since the Superbowl, and since the start of last year. I don't believe losing Moreno will hurt either. Last year we had Moreno and a struggling Ball and Hillman to start the season. This year we have a much better Ball, a hopefully improved Hillman, and we need CJ or one of the rookies to step up, I have high hopes for both of our free agent backs, especially Bibbs. For those that believe losing Decker will hurt us, IMHO he was good, but overated. Sanders will add another dimension that we never had with Decker with his speed and run after the catch ability. He caught 67 balls in Pitt last year, with Manning, those numbers should go up considerably. I know that there are question marks with Harris, Miller, Clady, Moore and Big Vic, but with medical technology these days, recovery times are vastly improved (i.e. Petersen and Charles), I don't believe the injuries will be that big of an issue.

As my friend Ravage said welcome to Broncos Forums.

For the most part I agree with much of what you said. I agree that Ball struggled early on in the year but by the end of season he was doing everything Moreno could do. While we'll probably know for sure I would bet that one the main reasons that Denver let Moreno walk away is because of how well Ball preformed down the stretch. I don't think Decker is overrated he is a very good number two receiver who lead the team in touchdown receptions two of the last three seasons. I think Sanders is going to be solid replacement for Decker overall. Sanders is faster but he's also much smaller than Decker.

[TXBRONC]

Moreno isn't special but his greatest asset was that he did everything good. Understood the system and could pass block and catch out of the backfield. Ball showed stone hands and had trouble with the audibles and system as a whole. Hopefully a year under him and a full offseason with the 1's will get him there. Maybe it won't. We won't know till the whistle blows. As for Decker he would have been a great asset for the next QB but with his price it would have hurt the team more then helped. We drafted a WR at the right time to learn the system before Welker's contract is up

Well early in the season Ball struggled but by the end of season he was doing everything that Moreno could do. If he was 't I don't think Denver could let Moreno just walk away the way they did.

[broncohead]

Well early in the season Ball struggled but by the season he was doing everything that Moreno could do. If he was 't I don't think Denver could let Moreno just walk away the way they did.

I love Ball dont get me wrong. Those were just some issues he had. They are correctable and he did play better as the season went on. I'm excited to see him as a full time RB

[Ravage!!!]

Moreno isn't special but his greatest asset was that he did everything good. Understood the system and could pass block and catch out of the backfield. Ball showed stone hands and had trouble with the audibles and system as a whole. Hopefully a year under him and a full offseason with the 1's will get him there. Maybe it won't. We won't know till the whistle blows. As for Decker he would have been a great asset for the next QB but with his price it would have hurt the team more then helped. We drafted a WR at the right time to learn the system before Welker's contract is up

I agree, Decker's price was too high to keep. But that is a different issue. I'm excited for Lattimer.

As far as Moreno... I'll disagree. I don't think he did everything well. He didn't break tackles, he didn't hit holes with authority, and he CERTAINLY didn't have good speed. I also have to disagree that Ball has stone hands. We'll see on how much he's improved on blocking, but it didn't keep the offense from keeping him off the field the last 3rd of the season. So I can't imagine him getting worse. To me, it shows that the coaches and GM are pretty confident that Ball is the guy considering how cheap RBs were in the FA market.

[TXBRONC]

I agree, Decker's price was too high to keep. But that is a different issue. I'm excited for Lattimer.

As far as Moreno... I'll disagree. I don't think he did everything well. He didn't break tackles, he didn't hit holes with authority, and he CERTAINLY didn't have good speed. I also have to disagree that Ball has stone hands. We'll see on how much he's improved on blocking, but it didn't keep the offense from keeping him off the field the last 3rd of the season. So I can't imagine him getting worse. To me, it shows that the coaches and GM are pretty confident that Ball is the guy considering how cheap RBs were in the FA market.

Moreno became a better runner as went along but he was still inconsistent. Critics can't deny he had terrific season that being the case why did Denver let him go. It wasn't because he was a locker room problem according what has been by Fox and Moreno's former teamates and I don't see how a matter of money because Miami didn't shell out a lot for him iirc. As good of season it looks like Denver didn't see him as irreplaceable.

As mention earlier Ball did improved as the season went. They started using Ball in situation that required him stay in for picking up the blitz. Moreno was good at picking up the blitz and I don't see let him walk unless they're confident that Ball can handle that duty.

[Ravage!!!]

Moreno became a better runner as went along but he was still inconsistent. Critics can't deny he had terrific season that being the case why did Denver let him go. It wasn't because he was a locker room problem according what has been by Fox and Moreno's former teamates and I don't see how a matter of money because Miami didn't shell out a lot for him iirc. As good of season it looks like Denver didn't see him as irreplaceable.

As mention earlier Ball did improved as the season went. They started using Ball in situation that required him stay in for picking up the blitz. Moreno was good at picking up the blitz and I don't see let him walk unless they're confident that Ball can handle that duty.

Yeah, I know I've been pretty hard on Moreno over the years, but I did like how he ran last year. He still is slow, but he ran hard. I think the team let him go because they wanted to move forward with Ball.

Like you, I usually defer to the coache's and GM's when it comes to knowing what is what on the field. They know what they had to do to cover for a player's defincientcies and if a player can be replaced...or how easily. Considering how cheap RBs were this offseason around the league, it seems that our coaches and GM is pretty confident in the players we have on roster.

[broncohead]

I agree, Decker's price was too high to keep. But that is a different issue. I'm excited for Lattimer.

As far as Moreno... I'll disagree. I don't think he did everything well. He didn't break tackles, he didn't hit holes with authority, and he CERTAINLY didn't have good speed. I also have to disagree that Ball has stone hands. We'll see on how much he's improved on blocking, but it didn't keep the offense from keeping him off the field the last 3rd of the season. So I can't imagine him getting worse. To me, it shows that the coaches and GM are pretty confident that Ball is the guy considering how cheap RBs were in the FA market.

I agree on everything. I just don't think every RB needs those traits. Moreno was serviceable and did everything well but nothing good. He could block, catch, run (yes not fast, not explosive, didn't run with authority and so on but he was a smart runner, got the yards he could and didn't leave yards on the field by dancing or running around). He is what he is. Would have been a good #2 though I don't think losing him is that big of a deal. He is replaceable

[G_Money]

I'm fascinated to see the back-up RB competition. I agree that Moreno was the best all-around back that we had to start last year. He knew the system, could pass protect (with a few astonishing lapses) as well as catch, and finally gave 100% on every running play. He did everything he could, and that was just marginally enough to be better than the rookie. He'd have been the backup this year, and much like with Lance Ball we don't necessarily need to pay to keep that contribution around.

But Hillman needs to screw his head on straight, or he may be off the roster.

CJ knows the system now too, and there are a couple of interesting rookie RBs who might get a look if Hillman still can't apply his talents to on-the-field production. And hold on to the ball! Ahem.

~G

[broncohead]

I'm fascinated to see the back-up RB competition. I agree that Moreno was the best all-around back that we had to start last year. He knew the system, could pass protect (with a few astonishing lapses) as well as catch, and finally gave 100% on every running play. He did everything he could, and that was just marginally enough to be better than the rookie. He'd have been the backup this year, and much like with Lance Ball we don't necessarily need to pay to keep that contribution around.

But Hillman needs to screw his head on straight, or he may be off the roster.

CJ knows the system now too, and there are a couple of interesting rookie RBs who might get a look if Hillman still can't apply his talents to on-the-field production. And hold on to the ball! Ahem.

~G

I liked how Hillman was running but those fumbles just cant happen. I'd like to see him get another shot this season but who knows. RB will be very interesting.

[G_Money]

Hillman's a good bounce runner. I'm still not fond of him inside, though with bigger holes from moving Orlando inside to beast away, he might have a better shot. But first and foremost for him is ball security. It wasn't his strong suit in college either, so I'm not placing bets on him fixing it, but I certainly would love to be surprised.

If Kapri Bibbs can pick up the scheme, though, he's got the extra 10-15 pounds of muscle that Hillman just doesn't have, and might be faster on the football field to boot. I think Bibbs is probably destined for the PS - he's not exactly a pass-blocking machine, and only one year of college ball makes it tough to process a Manning offense. Hillman should have a definite leg up there.

They're giving Ronnie every chance: they removed a roster spot in Moreno, didn't bring in anybody but undrafted competition last year (CJ) and this year with a couple of backs, and even if they add another RB camp body it won't be a main hitter. He should have a spot.

If he loses it, that's kinda on him.

~G