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Dreadnought
04-07-2014, 10:06 PM
Hey gang! there's lots to choose from, but because Softskull may have wanted to focus on McDaniel's mad draft skillz I thought a poll encompassing his entire career might be fun and help draw us all together!

Please pick your favorite memory!

Dapper Dan
04-07-2014, 10:08 PM
When he beat the Patriots.

BroncoWave
04-07-2014, 10:10 PM
By far, this.

2pPCEXq4mgk

Simple Jaded
04-07-2014, 10:13 PM
One of my favorites was when he'd smack his lips like a valley girl, but the very ultimate was when he got fired.

Buff
04-07-2014, 10:28 PM
This has the makings of a 5-Star thread.

When you look at that list of offenses, the Alphonso Smith deal doesn't jump out at you... But it got my vote and here's why: under no circumstances is it ever a good idea to trade a 1st round draft pick straight up for a 2nd round draft pick. If you are going to do it - you better be sure that you end up with a productive player for years to come. Instead, we ended up with 5'9" Alphonso Smith, who after doing absolutely nothing productive for a couple years, was later traded for 7th rounder Dan Grankowski (that's the shitty Gronkowski btw).

As if that wasn't enough - Seattle took our future first rounder and drafted Earl Thomas.

Just an objectively awful move.

Ah, memories.

Simple Jaded
04-07-2014, 10:36 PM
He traded a 1st round pick in a loaded draft for a 2nd round pick in a shitty draft.

DenBronx
04-07-2014, 11:29 PM
Best thread I've seen in a long time!


Great job Dread!

DenBronx
04-07-2014, 11:30 PM
Oh and I picked 59-14.


Everything you need to know about Josh McDaniels is rolled into one big ball of shit for that game.




I was so tempted last night to do the annual bump for the FIRE MCDANIELS thread.....but this works! :)

Jsteve01
04-07-2014, 11:53 PM
Oh and I picked 59-14.


Everything you need to know about Josh McDaniels is rolled into one big ball of shit for that game.




I was so tempted last night to do the annual bump for the FIRE MCDANIELS thread.....but this works! :)

Had the pleasure of enduring that game with a good friend who's a raiders fan...zero shit was talked because he literally felt bad for me. That is the worst memory but the trades for Quinn, Smith, and Tebow were horrendous as well

DenBronx
04-08-2014, 12:00 AM
Had the pleasure of enduring that game with a good friend who's a raiders fan...zero shit was talked because he literally felt bad for me. That is the worst memory but the trades for Quinn, Smith, and Tebow were horrendous as well


Same here but I had a house full of them. They didnt say anything that day but the next day at work and everyday after that it was hell. I hate when my Broncos play like that....I can't think of anything worse. They were crackin wise jokes like hey whats you address again? Is it 5914 Critchett Way?? Hey is 5914 the last four of your phone #?? Just a bunch of stupid shit man....I never hated Josh McDaniels or anyone as much I did that day. All I could think about is how an axe going down onto his skull would feel.

Northman
04-08-2014, 05:05 AM
Forgot the "all of the above" but really for me its what really started it all, the Jay Cutler fiasco. While eventually Jay soured and pouted his way out of Denver none of it would of transpired if McD didnt try to get cute and secretly trade away a promising young QB with a team that already had the offensive nucleus to be a dominant power with some fine tuning. For me it was pretty much the beginning of the end for Josh as he had already showed the players and fans that he was not ready for primetime and most certainly was not intelligent enough to take what talent he had and mold it into his own system. Dude was way in over his head and was a horrible choice by Bowlen to succeed Shanahan by a large stretch. Just another BB underling who failed to live up to expectations although Denver as an organization should of learned that lesson after the first 3 underlings went on to fail as HC's before McDoosh.

TXBRONC
04-08-2014, 06:45 AM
It's hard to pick just one but I would pick Spygate because if anything epitomizes the "Patriot way" it was that mess. He lied to Bowlen and the public about his involvement in the original Spygate and then proceeded to do the same damn thing in Denver.

Pudge
04-08-2014, 07:14 AM
After getting my hopes up going 6-0 and then going 2-6 the rest of the season. That was hard to digest

Softskull
04-08-2014, 07:55 AM
Ah, my first McD "hhmmm" moment was the release of Mike Leach and bringing in the $5.5 million ex-Patriot long snapper that he couldn't live without. Coaches make changes so it hardly registered.
The Cutler move was my first "WTF" moment or as Dread delicately puts it, my first golden shower. By the time of his first draft, those showers became golden rain. When we reached spygate we were already in a golden hurricane.

Dreadnought
04-08-2014, 08:12 AM
Ah, my first McD "hhmmm" moment was the release of Mike Leach and bringing in the $5.5 million ex-Patriot long snapper that he couldn't live without. Coaches make changes so it hardly registered.
The Cutler move was my first "WTF" moment or as Dread delicately puts it, my first golden shower. By the time of his first draft, those showers became golden rain. When we reached spygate we were already in a golden hurricane.

Dammit, I forgot to include the Mike Leach/Lonnie Paxton stupidity. Broke Frauschieze's heart, and I won't forgive that.

CoachChaz
04-08-2014, 09:24 AM
I have to go with the Tebow pick. I suppose I can understand the issues with Cutler and in hindsight...he hasnt really turned into much anyway. I can also understand not having much time to prepare for his first draft and the cluster**** that turned into. Long snappers? Who gives a shit?

But when you end up in that corner and your team needs a QB to begin it's transition into something new...you have to do your homework and find the best option. If not for Elway luring Manning, this team would still be feeling the effects of the Tebow pick and God only knows what position we'd be in right now. Now...it's not like any of the other options have turned out to be anything either (Clausen, McCoy, etc), but that first round pick could have been packaged for something the following year or for a solid back up that was blocked. I think he jumped the gun and made a decision that could have hurt this organization for a long time.

OB
04-08-2014, 09:45 AM
I still think he was secretly sent here by the patriots to **** us over as hard as possible and then go back to Bellychick

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-08-2014, 10:04 AM
I have to go with the Tebow pick. I suppose I can understand the issues with Cutler and in hindsight...he hasnt really turned into much anyway. I can also understand not having much time to prepare for his first draft and the cluster**** that turned into. Long snappers? Who gives a shit?

But when you end up in that corner and your team needs a QB to begin it's transition into something new...you have to do your homework and find the best option. If not for Elway luring Manning, this team would still be feeling the effects of the Tebow pick and God only knows what position we'd be in right now. Now...it's not like any of the other options have turned out to be anything either (Clausen, McCoy, etc), but that first round pick could have been packaged for something the following year or for a solid back up that was blocked. I think he jumped the gun and made a decision that could have hurt this organization for a long time.

I am persuaded if McDaniels would have just let the Goodman's do there job the first draft would have been just fine.

Ravage!!!
04-08-2014, 10:09 AM
As Elway said it himself... "you don't trade away a Cutler."

From the moment he lied about NOT trying to trade for Matt Cassle that we had a coach that was COMPLETELY in over his head. He didn't know that his lil secret would hit the media, and then tried to blame everyone else and the "I just answered the phone" BS (as if teams ask if you are willing to trade away your 23 yrd old, first round pick, pro-bowl QB). That guy was such a twirp... man I hate that guy.

CoachChaz
04-08-2014, 10:12 AM
I am persuaded if McDaniels would have just let the Goodman's do there job the first draft would have been just fine.

I agree. But let's be honest. Tell me ANY coach that would walk into a new gig and not want to be a part of the process of bringing players in. I know I would have wanted to be involved. And it's not like there have been stories since then that say McD threw his weight around and selected players no one else wanted. Even if there were...I'd have a hard time believing it because Moreno, Ayers and Smith were highly rated prospects and if they had panned out to the positive...no one would be saying anything.

I'm not defending him by any means, but it's not like he drafted guys with 7th round projections.

Ravage!!!
04-08-2014, 10:14 AM
What was taht TE's name that he drafted???

Ravage!!!
04-08-2014, 10:15 AM
I'm not defending him by any means, but it's not like he drafted guys with 7th round projections.

No...but Tebow was pretty close.

Dzone
04-08-2014, 10:16 AM
Wow what memories. Looking back at that makes the present day scenario even sweeter. Mcdaniels was a disaster but we bounced back fast

Cugel
04-08-2014, 10:52 AM
The only problem with that poll was there was no "all of the above" choice. I was torn. Each of those items was a real low-life moment for me. If you love the Broncos it's painful to be ashamed of the team because of an evil, evil little toad as coach. Those years were not fun for me.

I got banned from the official Broncos site during that era because I wouldn't back down from calling McMoron by his rightful name. I know intellectually that Belichek didn't really send him here as a mole to destroy the Broncos organization, but it certainly FEELS that way.


As Elway said it himself... "you don't trade away a Cutler."

From the moment he lied about NOT trying to trade for Matt Cassle that we had a coach that was COMPLETELY in over his head. He didn't know that his lil secret would hit the media, and then tried to blame everyone else and the "I just answered the phone" BS (as if teams ask if you are willing to trade away your 23 yrd old, first round pick, pro-bowl QB). That guy was such a twirp... man I hate that guy.

Pretty much all of that. Lack of integrity is the kiss of death in sports. Players can stand losing, what nobody wants is to work for a lying weasel who can't listen to anybody, is constantly feuding with people because he's so thin-skinned, and will blame everybody around him for his mistakes.

In short, he had all Belichek's worst attributes of arrogance and dishonesty without any of Bill's brains or ability.

Cugel
04-08-2014, 10:59 AM
Wow what memories. Looking back at that makes the present day scenario even sweeter. Mcdaniels was a disaster but we bounced back fast

We bounced back because of one man. John Elway. He hired Fox who is the opposite of McMoron, a quiet unassuming and humble man who has great integrity. And that in turn made it possible for Peyton Manning to come here. Then suddenly, Denver went from a total laughing stock of the NFL and a dying plague ship of an organization that FAs wanted to avoid, to the place to be for FAs. You notice the success Denver has had in signing guys and getting real use out of them. Last year notably Pot Roast and DRC. This season signing Ward, Aqib Talib and DeMarcus Ware.Those guys all have other places they could have gone. They chose the Broncos because Denver is the best team in the AFC and because the Broncos organization is classy all the way from the top down.

Cugel
04-08-2014, 11:10 AM
Basically, in order to evaluate a SB team player personnel directors grade players into A - Elite, B - Solid Starter C - Role Player, D - filler. A team generally needs 6-10 elite players who are impact players considered All-Pro or among the best at their positions, and some on both sides of the ball.

The problem with the Broncos in 2013 is that almost all their real A players were on offense, and they lost their 2nd best, Ryan Clady. Outside of Von Miller who was suspended and ineffective there was no guy who opposing offenses had to worry about "where is he lined up."

Now there are potentially four such guys, just on defense. That change in culture would never have been possible under McMoron because top flight FAs like Talib and Ware would never have signed here.

CoachChaz
04-08-2014, 11:13 AM
No...but Tebow was pretty close.

Which is why I voted for that option

Northman
04-08-2014, 11:14 AM
What was taht TE's name that he drafted???

"Quinn! You get over here!"

Ravage!!!
04-08-2014, 11:20 AM
"Quinn! You get over here!"

That's right..that's his name. Man, I reember having to look that name up after hearing it and going...."wtf?" (who, not what)

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-08-2014, 11:49 AM
I agree. But let's be honest. Tell me ANY coach that would walk into a new gig and not want to be a part of the process of bringing players in. I know I would have wanted to be involved. And it's not like there have been stories since then that say McD threw his weight around and selected players no one else wanted. Even if there were...I'd have a hard time believing it because Moreno, Ayers and Smith were highly rated prospects and if they had panned out to the positive...no one would be saying anything.

I'm not defending him by any means, but it's not like he drafted guys with 7th round projections.

I agree...I think he just drafted off of Mayock's board. I got the impression he micromanaged the process because the Goodman's were let go shortly after the draft.

DenBronx
04-08-2014, 02:37 PM
The Jay Cutler deal is sort of tied with 59-14. There was no option so I had to go with the final product, which was 59-14. But the Cutler deal really showed McDaniels arrogance and immaturity. How do you as a rookie HC go to a team that just traded up to get a QB a couple years prior then want to trade him? Jay I thought was doing better than what we had in years. Then he kept going down the list and releasing all of the GOOD players and keeping the shitty ones.

Northman
04-08-2014, 02:40 PM
The Jay Cutler deal is sort of tied with 59-14. There was no option so I had to go with the final product, which was 59-14. But the Cutler deal really showed McDaniels arrogance and immaturity. How do you as a rookie HC go to a team that just traded up to get a QB a couple years prior then want to trade him? Jay I thought was doing better than what we had in years. Then he kept going down the list and releasing all of the GOOD players and keeping the shitty ones.

I truly think that McD thought he was smarter than the rest of the world and could win with backup's and journeyman. Goes back to that arrogance you spoke of. What a buffoon.

DenBronx
04-08-2014, 02:42 PM
And how any Bronco fan could ever defend him sort of blows my mind. Just glad Bowlen had enough and fired his ass.

Ravage!!!
04-08-2014, 03:14 PM
I truly think that McD thought he was smarter than the rest of the world and could win with backup's and journeyman. Goes back to that arrogance you spoke of. What a buffoon.

This. This was shown to another example when got onto Nolan, as if Nolan was some rookie DC. He STILL thinks he is smarter than everyone else. He thought he was SOOo innovative and smart. The fact is, he hasn't succeeded without Brady.

DenBronx
04-08-2014, 03:16 PM
Or Billy boy. He hides behind Brady and Bill but then gets exposed when he is anywhere else.

Northman
04-08-2014, 03:18 PM
And how any Bronco fan could ever defend him sort of blows my mind. Just glad Bowlen had enough and fired his ass.

I cant say for sure why anyone would, but for two individuals who i know liked McD i think the common denominator was Cutler getting traded out of town. I know for those two individuals they have a very dislike for Jay overall but whether or not thats the catalyst for their McD love i dont know.

Dreadnought
04-08-2014, 03:21 PM
I am almost surprised that the great squashy soft smoldering dog log of a defense he helped assemble in 2010 hasn't gotten any votes. It was worst in the League and at the time, and amongst the 20 worst in NFL history in terms of surrendering yards. They made the flaccid defense of 2007 and 2008 look pretty stout by comparison.

Dreadnought
04-08-2014, 03:26 PM
...I wonder how Bosco will vote...

He must be debating this

Northman
04-08-2014, 03:29 PM
Personally im hoping he picks "other" and elaborates.

TXBRONC
04-08-2014, 04:09 PM
And how any Bronco fan could ever defend him sort of blows my mind. Just glad Bowlen had enough and fired his ass.

Even if McDaniels had made it to the end of the season Bowlen was going fire him.

Ravage!!!
04-08-2014, 05:22 PM
...I wonder how Bosco will vote...

He must be debating this


Personally im hoping he picks "other" and elaborates.

He'll take the blame of McDick and blame Bowlen for hiring him....as if that extinquishes the moves that joshy made.

spikerman
04-08-2014, 05:49 PM
Un-ban JR. I want to get his take on this.

Pudge
04-08-2014, 06:14 PM
I am almost surprised that the great squashy soft smoldering dog log of a defense he helped assemble in 2010 hasn't gotten any votes. It was worst in the League and at the time, and amongst the 20 worst in NFL history in terms of surrendering yards. They made the flaccid defense of 2007 and 2008 look pretty stout by comparison.

And even with that horrible of a defense we still managed to win four games :offensivegenius:

TXBRONC
04-08-2014, 06:16 PM
Un-ban JR. I want to get his take on this.

Has history taught you nothing Spike? :tsk:

TXBRONC
04-08-2014, 06:24 PM
...I wonder how Bosco will vote...

He must be debating this

He'll vote other and proceed to tell us how every bad thing that happened to McDork was someone elses fault. He'll provided articles that will support his position and tell us how any opposing articles are illegitimate.

spikerman
04-08-2014, 06:52 PM
Has history taught you nothing Spike? :tsk:

Ha ha... I loved Jr. I almost never agreed with him, but his posts always entertained the hell out of me.

Dzone
04-08-2014, 08:39 PM
The picture of Mcdaniels driving off with in his Range Rover full of boxes was hilarious

spikerman
04-08-2014, 08:47 PM
The picture of Mcdaniels driving off with in his Range Rover full of boxes was hilarious

It still pisses me off. He had a "cat that ate the canary" look on his face. Kind of like he was thinking "mission accomplished."

spikerman
04-08-2014, 08:49 PM
So it seems like BW and I are the only ones with sense. :D You all do realize that McDaniels traded multiple picks in order to move up to take a TE that had 12 total catches in college, right?

Dzone
04-08-2014, 08:56 PM
So it seems like BW and I are the only ones with sense. :D You all do realize that McDaniels traded multiple picks in order to move up to take a TE that had 12 total catches in college, right?
Dick Quinn?

Softskull
04-08-2014, 09:11 PM
So it seems like BW and I are the only ones with sense. :D You all do realize that McDaniels traded multiple picks in order to move up to take a TE that had 12 total catches in college, right?

It was an exceptional move. Especially if you hate the Broncos.

spikerman
04-08-2014, 09:19 PM
It was an exceptional move. Especially if you hate the Broncos.
A thing of genius, really.

I can still hear Al Davis laughing.

Softskull
04-08-2014, 09:25 PM
A thing of genius, really.

I can still hear Al Davis laughing.

From the fire of hell. I can see it now. "Hey Al, is hell really that bad?" "No boys, McDaniels isn't here yet"

Nomad
04-08-2014, 09:33 PM
59-14 stings.

TXBRONC
04-08-2014, 10:41 PM
Ha ha... I loved Jr. I almost never agreed with him, but his posts always entertained the hell out of me.

I guess One man's entertainment is another man's aggravation. :D

Buff
04-08-2014, 10:46 PM
So it seems like BW and I are the only ones with sense. :D You all do realize that McDaniels traded multiple picks in order to move up to take a TE that had 12 total catches in college, right?

That still wasn't as bad as the 'Phonz Smith deal... For crying out loud, he traded our 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick... Straight up! That's like trading a $2 bill for a $1 bill.

weazel
04-08-2014, 10:58 PM
I gotta go with when he got fired

Simple Jaded
04-09-2014, 12:18 AM
I am almost surprised that the great squashy soft smoldering dog log of a defense he helped assemble in 2010 hasn't gotten any votes. It was worst in the League and at the time, and amongst the 20 worst in NFL history in terms of surrendering yards. They made the flaccid defense of 2007 and 2008 look pretty stout by comparison.

It's hard to rebuild a defense when you're replacing a perfectly good offense piece by piece.

MOtorboat
04-09-2014, 12:54 AM
I love him SOOO much.

sneakers
04-09-2014, 01:47 AM
hahhaha golden showers

Valar Morghulis
04-09-2014, 02:19 AM
I liked Cutler and was gutted when he was traded - but on the upside, we got Kyle Orton........nice piece of business.

TXBRONC
04-09-2014, 06:36 AM
I love him SOOO much.

We know you do. You've said it multiple times. :D

reimx007
04-09-2014, 07:32 AM
Anybody read Nate Jackson's book? His descriptions of JMCD was pretty hilarious

Dreadnought
04-09-2014, 08:09 AM
Anybody read Nate Jackson's book? His descriptions of JMCD was pretty hilarious

Yes. Jackson was complimentary to almost everybody in his book, except for McD and Eric Mangini.

Mike
04-09-2014, 09:04 AM
I liked Cutler and was gutted when he was traded - but on the upside, we got Kyle Orton........nice piece of business.

Well, in the long run, it led to Elway. The McD's and Orton's are what makes you appreciate it more when things start going right.

wcben
04-09-2014, 09:04 AM
I'm sure it's been said but I'll never forget McDumbass dropping the F bomb on NFL Network. I loved that but have hated him since he traded Cutler because the week before I had bought a stitched Cut jersey that was instantly out of date. Grrrrrr.

Northman
04-09-2014, 09:23 AM
Anybody read Nate Jackson's book? His descriptions of JMCD was pretty hilarious

I havent but am curious too what he said.

Cugel
04-09-2014, 09:37 AM
I liked Cutler and was gutted when he was traded - but on the upside, we got Kyle Orton........nice piece of business.

:laugh: "I used to love living in my nice comfortable house until an arsonist burned it down - but on the upside, I got to live in a trailer next to the railroad tracks, and get woken up at 3 in the morning every day when the freight trains rolled right by my bedroom window blowing their horns."

artie_dale
04-09-2014, 09:37 AM
I had to go with the Jay Cutler fiasco. It really set the tone for him as far as I'm concerned. ALL of the talent we were happy to have at the end of Shanahan's final season, ALL WERE TRADED AWAY because of Josh McDaniels:

Jay Cutler (I know a lot resent him, but he was the first to sniff McDaniels out and is an above average QB, imo)
Peyton Hillis (EVERYONE was high on him at the time)
Brandon Marshall (he's still a valuable top 5 rcvr)
Tony Scheffler (he was a speedy rcving TE we enjoyed having)

The only people who gave McDaniels the majority of the credit he got while he was coaching our boys were the Jack Wagon Tim Tebow fanatics. If you became a Bronco fan because of Tim Tebow and are no longer a Bronco fan, you Sir/Ma'am, are a Jack Wagon. For those of you Bronco fans that were fans BEFORE Tebow arrived but still liked Tebow, you are not a Jack Wagon.

artie_dale
04-09-2014, 09:40 AM
Well, in the long run, it led to Elway. The McD's and Orton's are what makes you appreciate it more when things start going right.

I will never "appreciate" McDaniels or Orton. I don't care where we are. They get ZERO credit for our current situation because the team had to GET RID OF THEM in order for us to be here. They get nothing from me. Same goes for Tebow.

Dreadnought
04-09-2014, 09:41 AM
I had to go with the Jay Cutler fiasco. It really set the tone for him as far as I'm concerned. ALL of the talent we were happy to have at the end of Shanahan's final season, ALL WERE TRADED AWAY because of Josh McDaniels:

Jay Cutler (I know a lot resent him, but he was the first to sniff McDaniels out and is an above average QB, imo)
Peyton Hillis (EVERYONE was high on him at the time)
Brandon Marshall (he's still a valuable top 5 rcvr)
Tony Scheffler (he was a speedy rcving TE we enjoyed having)

The only people who gave McDaniels the majority of the credit he got while he was coaching our boys were the Jack Wagon Tim Tebow fanatics. If you became a Bronco fan because of Tim Tebow and are no longer a Bronco fan, you Sir/Ma'am, are a Jack Wagon. For those of you Bronco fans that were fans BEFORE Tebow arrived but still liked Tebow, you are not a Jack Wagon.

There was also a small contingent of bitter Jake Plummer fans who adopted McD as their Golden Boy

artie_dale
04-09-2014, 09:42 AM
I liked Cutler and was gutted when he was traded - but on the upside, we got Kyle Orton........nice piece of business.

I don't see how that was a nice piece of business. A 1st rnd pick was what we basically got for Cutler (and more) and Kyle Orton was like the consolation prize...

Lovie: "Hey so we don't need this guy anymore... you want him?"

McDaniels: "Uh, sure. We'll take him off your hands. We'll make him compete with who we draft."

smh

artie_dale
04-09-2014, 09:46 AM
There was also a small contingent of bitter Jake Plummer fans who adopted McD as their Golden Boy

I was a pretty huge Jake Plummer fan, but I didn't give up on Shanahan because of it. I thought it sucked, but its still a business and Jay Cutler was wowing fans and teammates during practices and Jake Plummer... well, I thought it showed that he was discouraged.

I also had really high hopes for the young Coaching Prospect that helped Tom Brady and Randy Moss break records because we definitely had the offensive weapons to do something similar (Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler). But, that all ended after Cutler saw what McDaniels was going to bring to the table, and the fact that the other talent who were traded didn't get along with him only solidified McDaniels wasn't a good coach.

Mike
04-09-2014, 09:48 AM
I will never "appreciate" McDaniels or Orton. I don't care where we are. They get ZERO credit for our current situation because the team had to GET RID OF THEM in order for us to be here. They get nothing from me. Same goes for Tebow.

I didn't say appreciate them. I said we can really enjoy the good of now because of the hell that was McD and Orton.

Cugel
04-09-2014, 10:00 AM
I cant say for sure why anyone would, but for two individuals who i know liked McD i think the common denominator was Cutler getting traded out of town. I know for those two individuals they have a very dislike for Jay overall but whether or not thats the catalyst for their McD love i dont know.

That's just the thing. People can criticize Cutler all they want, but there was certainly no better option. That's why teams don't trade their young franchise QB. Because the chances of getting something better are almost nil.

Just look at the 2009 draft and the QBs taken.

#1 overall, Matt Stafford, Lions. Would the Lions have traded their #1 overall pick for Jay Cutler? That's the million dollar question that can never be answered because McMoron never was open to a straight up trade. They might have wanted additional compensation for trading that pick. They might have been in love with Stafford and wanted him over Cutler. But, it was a real possibility. What Stafford could have done here is another story.

#5 -- Jets traded up from #17 to get Mark Sanchez. We all know how that turned out. The Jets wanted Cutler badly and obviously that would have been a lot better for them than Mark Sanchez. We would just be getting rid of him after the Broncos pinned their hopes to that bust for 4 seasons.

#17 -- Tampa Bay took Josh Freeman with this pick. The less said about Josh Freeman the better.

#44 -- Second round, the Dolphins took Pat White. They are still looking for a QB in this draft.

There were seven other QBs taken in later rounds and none of them have done anything worth mentioning, except suck. 2nd and later round QBs are almost always worthless. Out of something like 116 QBs taken in the mid second round and later since Tom Brady in 2000, only Russell Wilson has been any good. And the jury is really still out on him.

(That includes Kyle Orton, 4th round, Matt Schaub, 3rd round, and Tony Romo FA.)

The list of 1st round QBs taken since Tom Brady also includes such stand-outs as:

2002: David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2003: Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman
2004: J.P. Losman
2005: Jason Campbell
2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinart
2007: JaWalrus Russell, Brady Quinn
2009: Sanchez, and Freeman.
2010: Tim Tebow
2011: Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder
2012: Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden

In short, in most years, unless you have the #1 overall pick there's nobody good to choose at all! And sometimes there's simply nobody at all even if you have the #1 pick, like 2011 (unless you think Cam Newton is going to become great which I don't).

artie_dale
04-09-2014, 10:08 AM
I didn't say appreciate them. I said we can really enjoy the good of now because of the hell that was McD and Orton.

No, I will enjoy the good of now, not because of the hell they brought, but because the team finally got a clue and rid themselves of those guys. Credit to the team for making the change, nothing more, nothing less.

Mike
04-09-2014, 10:18 AM
No, I will enjoy the good of now, not because of the hell they brought, but because the team finally got a clue and rid themselves of those guys. Credit to the team for making the change, nothing more, nothing less.

Whatever floats your boat, brah.

artie_dale
04-09-2014, 10:29 AM
Whatever floats your boat, brah.

I'm sorry man, I just don't have it in me to give McDaniels ANY credit for anything, other than ruining what was supposed to be a pretty good thing... watching our best offensive talents go away and watching 1st round picks get wasted, only to also see horrible offensive play (after starting 6-0) and it all coming to an end via Spygate II.

MOtorboat
04-09-2014, 10:35 AM
Jay Cutler sucks.

TXBRONC
04-09-2014, 10:44 AM
Jay Cutler sucks.

I disagee. Josh McDaniel hasn't had ANY success outside of New England everywhere else he's been he's suck ass. That is factual.

MOtorboat
04-09-2014, 10:47 AM
I disagee. Josh McDaniel hasn't had ANY success outside of New England everywhere else he's been he's suck ass. That is factual.

Jay Cutler hasn't been successful anywhere. The two are not mutually exclusive.

artie_dale
04-09-2014, 10:58 AM
Jay Cutler hasn't been successful anywhere. The two are not mutually exclusive.

He did take the Bears to the NFCC. It could have been a different outcome had he not got dinged up. It was an ugly battle where both Chi QB's did suck though.

Valar Morghulis
04-09-2014, 11:02 AM
I liked Cutler and was gutted when he was traded - but on the upside, we got Kyle Orton........nice piece of business.

I don't see how that was a nice piece of business. A 1st rnd pick was what we basically got for Cutler (and more) and Kyle Orton was like the consolation prize...

Lovie: "Hey so we don't need this guy anymore... you want him?"

McDaniels: "Uh, sure. We'll take him off your hands. We'll make him compete with who we draft."

smh

I agree, I was attempting to be ironic.

artie_dale
04-09-2014, 11:07 AM
I agree, I was attempting to be ironic.

rog. My irony-radar sucks online.

Northman
04-09-2014, 11:57 AM
Josh McDaniels sucks.

fify

Nomad
04-09-2014, 03:07 PM
Jay Cutler sucks.

Jay got butthurt when his boytoy, Bates, was let go. Then it went from there.

Nomad
04-09-2014, 03:15 PM
Jay Cutler hasn't been successful anywhere. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Yeah, he's overrated.

Slick
04-09-2014, 03:19 PM
Jay Cutler sucks.

I was pretty pissed when Denver made that deal but after watching him in Chicago I got over it quickly.

TXBRONC
04-09-2014, 04:45 PM
Jay Cutler hasn't been successful anywhere. The two are not mutually exclusive.

That is not true. Cutler did take the Bears to the NFCCG McDaniels on the other hand has done nothing outside New England.

slim
04-09-2014, 04:47 PM
That is not true. Cutler did take the Bears to the NFCCG McDaniels on the other hand has done nothing outside New England.

They both suck :listen:

MOtorboat
04-09-2014, 05:39 PM
That is not true. Cutler did take the Bears to the NFCCG McDaniels on the other hand has done nothing outside New England.

Tell me all your thoughts on Jake Plummer.

And ask her why we're who we are...

Bonus points for song reference.

Ravage!!!
04-09-2014, 05:41 PM
"You don't trade away a Jay Cutler." - John Elway

MOtorboat
04-09-2014, 05:42 PM
You don't win with him, either.

TXBRONC
04-09-2014, 05:49 PM
Tell me all your thoughts on Jake Plummer.

And ask her why we're who we are...

Bonus points for song reference.

Plummer had talent but didn't work at getting better and he was not a very good pocket passer.


I don't know what song you're referencing MO. I haven't listening to much music these days.

Simple Jaded
04-09-2014, 08:47 PM
Am I very far now? Am I very far now? Am I very far now?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-09-2014, 09:36 PM
The right play would have been to keep Plummer and draft Ngata.

Simple Jaded
04-09-2014, 09:40 PM
Yeah but Ngata can't play QB.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-09-2014, 09:57 PM
Yeah but Ngata can't play QB.

He would have strengthened the weakest part of our team. We needed him a lot more than we needed Cuddles.

Northman
04-10-2014, 04:19 AM
You don't win with him, either.

Unless your John Elway. :listen:

chazoe60
04-10-2014, 07:01 AM
59-14 to the Raiders. Watching our pathetic QB at the time mope in and out of the huddle as a mediocre team, a mediocre team I happen to hate more than the Taliban, beat us worse than Mike Tyson would beat Hellen Keller in a boxing match, yeah that was the lowest.


If I was Bowlen, McDaniels would have been fired at halftime of that game and so would at least half of the players.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-10-2014, 09:23 AM
59-14 to the Raiders. Watching our pathetic QB at the time mope in and out of the huddle as a mediocre team, a mediocre team I happen to hate more than the Taliban, beat us worse than Mike Tyson would beat Hellen Keller in a boxing match, yeah that was the lowest.


If I was Bowlen, McDaniels would have been fired at halftime of that game and so would at least half of the players.

I agree, that loss to the Raiders was possibly the most humiliating thing I've ever seen as a Broncos fan.

artie_dale
04-10-2014, 09:51 AM
Yes, I was still stationed in Germany that season. The Sunday early games started at 7pm Sunday night for me. Then 10pm for the second round and then 2am for the prime time games. I was up late, watching our boys get demolished... that was the first time I ever turned a Broncos game off (PISSED!). I tried to play some COD to get my mind off of it but it ended up pissing me off more because I was sucking at COD as bad as the Broncos were sucking at football.

TXBRONC
04-10-2014, 09:53 AM
59-14 to the Raiders. Watching our pathetic QB at the time mope in and out of the huddle as a mediocre team, a mediocre team I happen to hate more than the Taliban, beat us worse than Mike Tyson would beat Hellen Keller in a boxing match, yeah that was the lowest.


If I was Bowlen, McDaniels would have been fired at halftime of that game and so would at least half of the players.

Orton had no mental toughness.


Anyway the one that puts the cherry on the top for me is Spygate II. When McDaniel brought in New England's version of Spygate was only two years in the past and he when he became the head coach. He was asked specifically about he claimed to know nothing about it. A year and half when Spygate II happened Jay Glazer broke a story how McDaniels went in a coaches' meeting and explained in detail the difference between what happened in New England verse what happened in Denver. So he lied to the public and his boss.

artie_dale
04-10-2014, 10:20 AM
Orton had no mental toughness.


Anyway the one that puts the cherry on the top for me is Spygate II. When McDaniel brought in New England's version of Spygate was only two years in the past and he when he became the head coach. He was asked specifically about he claimed to know nothing about it. A year and half when Spygate II happened Jay Glazer broke a story how McDaniels went in a coaches' meeting and explained in detail the difference between what happened in New England verse what happened in Denver. So he lied to the public and his boss.

Orton's mental toughness... I've always thought that Orton was damaged goods because of the way he became a Bronco. I still can't stand the guy, but I always thought that he felt abandoned and betrayed by the Bears and Lovie Smith, and just never got over it. Tebow Mania didn't help either. Good riddance.

Northman
04-10-2014, 11:09 AM
I agree, that loss to the Raiders was possibly the most humiliating thing I've ever seen as a Broncos fan.

I dont know, this past SB was pretty bad...

SM19
04-10-2014, 12:27 PM
I voted for benching Marshall and Scheffler, which if I'm honest was probably not actually the worst thing he did, but was certainly the most Josh McDaniels thing he did. McDaniels' tenure can best be described as one irreconcilable personality conflict after another, with McDaniels himself being the common factor in all of those conflicts. His relationships with Marshall and Scheffler (and for that matter, Hillis) were probably the best examples of that.

Nomad
04-10-2014, 01:40 PM
The right play would have been to keep Plummer and draft Ngata.

You are correct, sir.

Dreadnought
04-10-2014, 02:42 PM
I voted for benching Marshall and Scheffler, which if I'm honest was probably not actually the worst thing he did, but was certainly the most Josh McDaniels thing he did. McDaniels' tenure can best be described as one irreconcilable personality conflict after another, with McDaniels himself being the common factor in all of those conflicts. His relationships with Marshall and Scheffler (and for that matter, Hillis) were probably the best examples of that.


That's a solid argument. That episode demonstrated the classic McDaniels combo of petulance, pettiness, spite, and immaturity perfectly. It may not have been his stupidest move, but it certainly ranks as perhaps his most pointless and self-defeating.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-10-2014, 05:48 PM
I dont know, this past SB was pretty bad...

Yeah, but it was the SB, against possibly the best team in the league and we were playing with a depleted team. The Raiders weren't even a playoff caliber team, and the freaking game happened in our house.

sneakers
04-10-2014, 06:20 PM
Hhahahahha golden showers

Simple Jaded
04-10-2014, 08:39 PM
He would have strengthened the weakest part of our team. We needed him a lot more than we needed Cuddles.

Nobody needs a DT over a QB.

TXBRONC
04-11-2014, 07:28 AM
Orton's mental toughness... I've always thought that Orton was damaged goods because of the way he became a Bronco. I still can't stand the guy, but I always thought that he felt abandoned and betrayed by the Bears and Lovie Smith, and just never got over it. Tebow Mania didn't help either. Good riddance.

I don't think the trade bothered him because it was pretty clear early on in his first camp that he was going to be the starter. It seemed when faced adversity in games he didn't have the ability to overcome it.

BroncoJoe
04-11-2014, 07:52 AM
I don't think the trade bothered him because it was pretty clear early on in his first camp that he was going to be the starter. It seemed when faced adversity in game he did have the ability to come up big the vast majority of the time.
:confused:

chazoe60
04-11-2014, 08:02 AM
I don't think the trade bothered him because it was pretty clear early on in his first camp that he was going to be the starter. It seemed when faced adversity in game he did have the ability to come up big the vast majority of the time.

You and I were watching different things apparently. Orton pissed down his leg when adversity struck. He earned the "fainting goat" moniker. Did you see the game he started for Dallas this season, with the playoffs on the line he wet himself. It was so awesome to watch because I knew it was coming.

atwater27
04-11-2014, 08:36 AM
Say what you want about Cutty, but he didn't put up with that assclown McDaniels for one minute, and that should earn anybody's respect. He figured him out before anybody else.

BroncoJoe
04-11-2014, 08:43 AM
Say what you want about Cutty, but he didn't put up with that assclown McDaniels for one minute, and that should earn anybody's respect. He figured him out before anybody else.
I just don't like the dude. Either one of them.

They were both children who got into a fight.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-11-2014, 08:55 AM
Nobody needs a DT over a QB.

Right, unless you already have a QB

TXBRONC
04-11-2014, 10:18 AM
:confused:

I fixed it.

TXBRONC
04-11-2014, 10:21 AM
You and I were watching different things apparently. Orton pissed down his leg when adversity struck. He earned the "fainting goat" moniker. Did you see the game he started for Dallas this season, with the playoffs on the line he wet himself. It was so awesome to watch because I knew it was coming.

I fixed the post because that is not what I meant to say. I agree Orton always seemed to choke when the game was on the line.

TXBRONC
04-11-2014, 10:22 AM
Right, unless you already have a QB

We didn't have a good quaterback.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-11-2014, 11:33 AM
We didn't have a good quaterback.

He wasn't elite, but Cutler wasn't enough of an improvement to warrant moving up to take him.

I understand not everybody agrees with me. I wanted Ngata that year. He was my mancrush. He turned out to be the best DT in football when healthy.

Cutler didn't really improve the offense. I know Jake was bad his last year here, but in his two years before that his QB rating was just as good as Cutler's ever was here.

Nomad
04-11-2014, 11:49 AM
He wasn't elite, but Cutler wasn't enough of an improvement to warrant moving up to take him.

I understand not everybody agrees with me. I wanted Ngata that year. He was my mancrush. He turned out to be the best DT in football when healthy.

Cutler didn't really improve the offense. I know Jake was bad his last year here, but in his two years before that his QB rating was just as good as Cutler's ever was here.

My thoughts exactly.

Northman
04-11-2014, 12:08 PM
He wasn't elite, but Cutler wasn't enough of an improvement to warrant moving up to take him.

I understand not everybody agrees with me.

Cutler didn't really improve the offense.


I definitely disagree with that assessment. Cutler has his faults (some of it his own fault, some of it not) but he was just a much better QB in terms of athleticism and arm strength than Jake ever was. Jake had a lot more fire in his belly but he didnt work near as hard as Jay did when it came to being a student of the game. Was taking Jay the right move at that time over a guy like Ngata? Probably not but i personally didnt mind the move as i knew Jake was never going to be the answer there.

chazoe60
04-11-2014, 01:06 PM
I definitely disagree with that assessment. Cutler has his faults (some of it his own fault, some of it not) but he was just a much better QB in terms of athleticism and arm strength than Jake ever was. Jake had a lot more fire in his belly but he didnt work near as hard as Jay did when it came to being a student of the game. Was taking Jay the right move at that time over a guy like Ngata? Probably not but i personally didnt mind the move as i knew Jake was never going to be the answer there.
Jay has never proven to be a winner like Jake was. Say what you want about Jake but he won a lot of games here.

Dreadnought
04-11-2014, 01:09 PM
Jay has never proven to be a winner like Jake was. Say what you want about Jake but he won a lot of games here.

He sucked in 2006. Flat awful. Sub-Kyle Orton awful. Sub Kordell Stewart awful. There is no escaping that brutal truth. He played good ball for us from 2003-05, but he was just starting to get on in years, didn't work all that hard at his craft, and then of course 2006 clinched it. I think his work ethic and attitude pissed Shanahan off more than we know.

Northman
04-11-2014, 02:12 PM
He sucked in 2006. Flat awful. Sub-Kyle Orton awful. Sub Kordell Stewart awful. There is no escaping that brutal truth. He played good ball for us from 2003-05, but he was just starting to get on in years, didn't work all that hard at his craft, and then of course 2006 clinched it. I think his work ethic and attitude pissed Shanahan off more than we know.

Indeed.

Jake also had the luxury of playing with at the very least a better defense than Jay EVER had while in Denver. Those 3 years that Jay was here our defense was downright deplorable on so many levels.

Cugel
04-11-2014, 02:53 PM
I just don't like the dude. Either one of them.

They were both children who got into a fight.

Yes. That's true. Cutler whined. Well, so what? Who is supposed to exercise maturity and put the team's interests first in this situation?

The head coach. But, coach Dugie Howser always acted like he was a 15 year old who was put in charge for the day by daddy, and has to constantly "prove that I'm the boss."

Nobody could tell him anything, he was utterly ignorant and arrogant. Why did he instantly get rid of the Goodmans if (as he later admitted) he only took control of Broncos drafting "because somebody had to" -- Brian Xanders was a glorified cap-ologist and not a real player personnel director and Dr. Duggie had never run a player pro personnel department either (that's Belichek's department).

Answer: He was an immature child who couldn't get along with anybody and always had a hair trigger if he felt "his authority" was being "challenged."

You think John Fox worries for 2 seconds about his "authority?" Or John Elway.

People who know how to exercise authority properly feel comfortable in their own shoes and aren't always looking to put someone down for "disrespecting them." Fox and Elway just make decisions and everybody respects them. There's no question about who's boss and they never get into "power fights" with anybody. That would be absurd.

That is what they call "leadership." Not some emotionally retarded child-man.

Cugel
04-11-2014, 03:02 PM
Indeed.

Jake also had the luxury of playing with at the very least a better defense than Jay EVER had while in Denver. Those 3 years that Jay was here our defense was downright deplorable on so many levels.

Jake Plummer was not considered by the vast majority of teams as a starting quality NFL QB. He was invited (along with every other FA QB they could get their hands on) to come to the Dolphins training camp where he would have had to compete with Jay Fiedler, or somebody like that not actually named Jay Fiedler, but basically . . . you get the picture).

And he declined. He realized that his career as a serious starting QB was basically over. He could hang around the NFL and hold a clip-board for about $1M + a year for maybe a couple more years. And if the starter didn't work out or got hurt at any time, he might get another chance to start. Or he might beat out the Jay Fiedler of the moment down in Miami.

And he didn't want to go through the brain damage. So, he quit. It actually ended up costing him a couple of million $ because he had to give back a portion of his signing bonus for not reporting to Dolphins camp.

There is no serious thought that if the Broncos had kept Jake and drafted Haloti Ngata or someone else that they would have repeated their 13-3 season from 2005. That team was a "last hurrah" built with aging veterans like Al Wilson and Courtney Brown, soon to be gone. It would never have worked in 2006.

That persistent fantasy is just the idiotic revisionist history of the Jake lovers. If anybody in the NFL really thought Jake was a serious SB caliber QB they would have offered a lot more than a 4th round draft pick for him. And he would have stayed around a lot longer too.

Northman
04-11-2014, 03:57 PM
Jake Plummer was not considered by the vast majority of teams as a starting quality NFL QB. He was invited (along with every other FA QB they could get their hands on) to come to the Dolphins training camp where he would have had to compete with Jay Fiedler, or somebody like that not actually named Jay Fiedler, but basically . . . you get the picture).

And he declined. He realized that his career as a serious starting QB was basically over. He could hang around the NFL and hold a clip-board for about $1M + a year for maybe a couple more years. And if the starter didn't work out or got hurt at any time, he might get another chance to start. Or he might beat out the Jay Fiedler of the moment down in Miami.

And he didn't want to go through the brain damage. So, he quit. It actually ended up costing him a couple of million $ because he had to give back a portion of his signing bonus for not reporting to Dolphins camp.

There is no serious thought that if the Broncos had kept Jake and drafted Haloti Ngata or someone else that they would have repeated their 13-3 season from 2005. That team was a "last hurrah" built with aging veterans like Al Wilson and Courtney Brown, soon to be gone. It would never have worked in 2006.

That persistent fantasy is just the idiotic revisionist history of the Jake lovers. If anybody in the NFL really thought Jake was a serious SB caliber QB they would have offered a lot more than a 4th round draft pick for him. And he would have stayed around a lot longer too.

I think you mean the Bucs, it was the Bucs and Gruden that were pursuing him after he chose to retire.

TXBRONC
04-11-2014, 04:41 PM
He wasn't elite, but Cutler wasn't enough of an improvement to warrant moving up to take him.

I understand not everybody agrees with me. I wanted Ngata that year. He was my mancrush. He turned out to be the best DT in football when healthy.

Cutler didn't really improve the offense. I know Jake was bad his last year here, but in his two years before that his QB rating was just as good as Cutler's ever was here.

Yes he was and yes he did improve the offense. I think Shanahan a better understanding of the strengthens and weakness of each quarterback than we ever will.

TXBRONC
04-11-2014, 04:44 PM
Jay has never proven to be a winner like Jake was. Say what you want about Jake but he won a lot of games here.

No Plummer never proved that he was a winner.

slim
04-11-2014, 04:59 PM
No Plummer never proved that he was a winner.

Plummer never had a losing season in Denver. Culter never had a winning season.

vettesplus
04-11-2014, 05:07 PM
Tim Teboner hands down....

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-11-2014, 06:13 PM
No Plummer never proved that he was a winner.

Jay never won more than 8 games in Denver, and never won a playoff game. If we're gonna talk about winning, it's a pretty easy decision.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-11-2014, 06:14 PM
Yes he was and yes he did improve the offense. I think Shanahan a better understanding of the strengthens and weakness of each quarterback than we ever will.

He had more yards, but he also had a lot more turnovers. At the end of the day, with all of those yards we racked up we still only finished 16th in scoring. The only advantage Jay had over Plummer was arm strength.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-11-2014, 06:15 PM
I definitely disagree with that assessment. Cutler has his faults (some of it his own fault, some of it not) but he was just a much better QB in terms of athleticism and arm strength than Jake ever was. Jake had a lot more fire in his belly but he didnt work near as hard as Jay did when it came to being a student of the game. Was taking Jay the right move at that time over a guy like Ngata? Probably not but i personally didnt mind the move as i knew Jake was never going to be the answer there.

That's the first time I've ever heard of Jay being referred to as a student of the game. John Lynch suggested he was a complete jackass.

Northman
04-11-2014, 07:31 PM
That's the first time I've ever heard of Jay being referred to as a student of the game. John Lynch suggested he was a complete jackass.

I think your confusing a player who puts in the work at his trade vs his character or attitude. Its pretty common knowledge by now that Jay is a jackass. That wasnt what i was referring too.

Cugel
04-11-2014, 08:22 PM
I think you mean the Bucs, it was the Bucs and Gruden that were pursuing him after he chose to retire.

I thought he was traded to the Dolphins for a 4th round pick and refused to report. Was it the Bucs or was that approach by Jon Gruden later? Either way he preferred to hang out in Montana with Collette and play handball so it's irrelevant.

If any team thought he was a SB caliber QB they would have offered a lot more to the Broncos -- like the 1st round picks they offered for Jay Cutler, who had of course never won a playoff game in 2006.

Cugel
04-11-2014, 08:32 PM
The thing to remember about Cutler was that there was no better option available. He may never win a SB, but certainly changing him for Matt Cassel was an insanely stupid idea. Kyle Orton was a lot worse, despite all the idiots who flamed me endlessly for insisting in 2009 that Orton was just a career backup and not remotely to be compared with Cutler, who at least still has a starting job.

Then there were the draft alternatives: Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman. Oh, God! Even if the Broncos had gotten the #1 pick, would Matt Stafford really have been better? The Lions had to pay him close to $60 M and I doubt anybody would really say he's worth 3 years of Peyton Manning or Tom Brady's salary.

That in a nut-shell is why you don't do what McMoron did and try and trade your franchise QB if he's got any real potential. The overwhelming odds are they you will end up in a worse position than when you started, because there usually aren't any available replacements who will make things better. Sometimes it takes a team years to get a decent starting QB. Just ask Miami.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-11-2014, 08:37 PM
I think your confusing a player who puts in the work at his trade vs his character or attitude. Its pretty common knowledge by now that Jay is a jackass. That wasnt what i was referring too.

A student is teachable. If Jay is teachable why was he ignoring a HOF player before a game? If Jay is a student why are his mechanics a dumpster fire?

Simple Jaded
04-11-2014, 10:02 PM
Right, unless you already have a QB

Yeah but the Broncos had Jake Plummer, don't get me wrong I'm a Plummer fan, but please. Cutler had him beat in preseason.

TXBRONC
04-11-2014, 10:18 PM
Jay never won more than 8 games in Denver, and never won a playoff game. If we're gonna talk about winning, it's a pretty easy decision.

Yeah he had one playoff and three beat downs. Also as it's been mentioned before the defense was better for Plummer than it was for Cutler. Plummer had no desire to make himself a better player. A guy who can only read half the field in the passing isn't going to win championships without a defense like Seattle's.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-12-2014, 01:12 AM
Yeah but the Broncos had Jake Plummer, don't get me wrong I'm a Plummer fan, but please. Cutler had him beat in preseason.

I'm not a fan of either one, but Ngata, Ngata is a difference maker.

Simple Jaded
04-12-2014, 01:31 AM
I'm not a fan of either one, but Ngata, Ngata is a difference maker.

I'll take the QB, besides, with Shanatan drafting a talented defensive player was never a realistic option.

Northman
04-12-2014, 08:23 AM
A student is teachable. If Jay is teachable why was he ignoring a HOF player before a game? If Jay is a student why are his mechanics a dumpster fire?

I think its safe to say his road since leaving Denver has been pretty rocky in terms of consistency with coaching, etc. Hate on the kid all you want thats fine but no one can convince me that under guys like Elway and Fox he wouldnt of flourished. We just have to agree to disagree here.

Northman
04-12-2014, 08:25 AM
Ngata also had a HUGE luxury to play with a guy like Ray Lewis.

chazoe60
04-12-2014, 08:30 AM
Ngata also had a HUGE luxury to play with a guy like Ray Lewis.
Actually it was Ray Lewis who had the luxury of playing Ngata.

Northman
04-12-2014, 08:54 AM
Actually it was Ray Lewis who had the luxury of playing Ngata.

Bwhahahahahahahahaha

Dude, Lewis was an all pro before Ngata even arrived. Even you cant be that dumb.

chazoe60
04-12-2014, 09:09 AM
Bwhahahahahahahahaha

Dude, Lewis was an all pro before Ngata even arrived. Even you cant be that dumb.

I guess you don't understand the mechanics of a defense.

atwater27
04-12-2014, 10:22 AM
Actually it was Ray Lewis who had the luxury of playing Ngata.

I second that motion. Ray is obviously one of the best ever at the position, but he had a huge decline in production when he didn't have a good DT or 2 to clear the way for him.

Nomad
04-12-2014, 11:49 AM
AW4M.....you're doing a damn good job in here.

Dzone
04-12-2014, 12:16 PM
Trying to bring in Matt Cassel was a stroke of utter stupidity

Simple Jaded
04-12-2014, 02:59 PM
Trying to bring in Matt Cassel was a stroke of utter stupidity

Yeah, out of all the offers the Broncos received for Cutler the one they took was still only the second worst to the original POS offer that starter the entire whirlpool of bullshit.

Ravage!!!
04-12-2014, 03:01 PM
That's the first time I've ever heard of Jay being referred to as a student of the game. John Lynch suggested he was a complete jackass.

Every coach he's had as commented on how he studies film and how he's a student. John Lynch's comment has NOTHING to do with your first sentence.

Ravage!!!
04-12-2014, 03:03 PM
He wasn't elite, but Cutler wasn't enough of an improvement to warrant moving up to take him.

I understand not everybody agrees with me. I wanted Ngata that year. He was my mancrush. He turned out to be the best DT in football when healthy.

Cutler didn't really improve the offense. I know Jake was bad his last year here, but in his two years before that his QB rating was just as good as Cutler's ever was here.

Cutler didn't improve the offense when, his rookie year when he jumped the points per game?

Jake was NOT good, and the Broncos knew that they needed to IMPROVE that position. The fact that we had a chance to grab one of the top QBs in the draft was what this team needed. JAKE was NOT the answer, and was not the long-term answer. The ONLY way you get to improve and move forward to a LONG term answer, is to draft a QB.

Northman
04-12-2014, 05:59 PM
You are killing it in this thread Rav.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-12-2014, 06:37 PM
Every coach he's had as commented on how he studies film and how he's a student. John Lynch's comment has NOTHING to do with your first sentence.

It has everything to do with it. If a HOF player is trying to explain something to you before the game you LISTEN. Yes, Plummer was awful his last half season here because his confidence was shot. However, the two seasons before that the offense was just as good as it ever was with Cutler.

What exactly is impressive about Jay watching film? Every QB in the NFL watches film. The only reason coaches who were current with Jay have commented on his work ethic is a direct result of his reputation as a jack ass.

Tell me Rav, if he's such a great student, why are his mechanics so freaking crappy?

Jsteve01
04-12-2014, 06:41 PM
He wasn't elite, but Cutler wasn't enough of an improvement to warrant moving up to take him.

I understand not everybody agrees with me. I wanted Ngata that year. He was my mancrush. He turned out to be the best DT in football when healthy.

Cutler didn't really improve the offense. I know Jake was bad his last year here, but in his two years before that his QB rating was just as good as Cutler's ever was here.

Cutler didn't improve the offense when, his rookie year when he jumped the points per game?

Jake was NOT good, and the Broncos knew that they needed to IMPROVE that position. The fact that we had a chance to grab one of the top QBs in the draft was what this team needed. JAKE was NOT the answer, and was not the long-term answer. The ONLY way you get to improve and move forward to a LONG term answer, is to draft a QB.. So heimerdunger completely tossing the playbook that kubes had used the previous year. A season in which Jake looked to be turning the corner and we made the AFC championship game. I guess that had zero to do with it. They completely scrapped the rollout game and determined to make snake a pocket passer.


And haloti ngata when healthy is the best tackle in football. Ray lewis had the benefit of playing with siragusa and sam adams prior to ngata. He's a very good player but to try to imply that a dt benefits as much from linebacker play as backers benefit from strong line play is a complete stretch. All those players were very good but I'd have loved to watch lewis try toget off with the garbage lines thebroncos trotted out in the shanahan era

sneakers
04-14-2014, 03:50 PM
Hhahahahha golden showers

Ravage!!!
04-15-2014, 10:28 AM
. So heimerdunger completely tossing the playbook that kubes had used the previous year. A season in which Jake looked to be turning the corner and we made the AFC championship game. I guess that had zero to do with it. They completely scrapped the rollout game and determined to make snake a pocket passer.
Horseshit. Jake threw in the towel when Cutler was drafted. He played TERRRIBLE that year, and it's allb ecause his feelings were hurt. Everyone already knew that Jake didn't like to study, and idnd't like practice...that was a given. When Cutler was drafted, the writing was on the wall, and Jake folded mentally. This entire "They threw out the playbook and tried to make Jake something different" is total and complete BS.



And haloti ngata when healthy is the best tackle in football. Ray lewis had the benefit of playing with siragusa and sam adams prior to ngata. He's a very good player but to try to imply that a dt benefits as much from linebacker play as backers benefit from strong line play is a complete stretch. All those players were very good but I'd have loved to watch lewis try toget off with the garbage lines thebroncos trotted out in the shanahan era

No one is taking away fron Ngata's play. But hindsight is ALWAYS dead on, right? There is an article out right now that is talking about how teams HAVE to take QBs if they don't have one, even if they dont like any in the draft. Why? Because you NEED a top QB to be successful in this league anymore, and Plummer was NOT a good QB. The Broncos NEEDED a QB of the future, and the ONLY way you get a QB of the future is to DRAFT a QB. Just because you don't like Cutler doesn't mean the draft choice wasn't sound, it was VERY sound. Cutler today is a better QB than Plummer, despite the hatred around the boards.

Ravage!!!
04-15-2014, 10:32 AM
It has everything to do with it. If a HOF player is trying to explain something to you before the game you LISTEN. Yes, Plummer was awful his last half season here because his confidence was shot. However, the two seasons before that the offense was just as good as it ever was with Cutler.

No, you said Jay wasn't a student of the game and tried to use what Lynch said as proof. Those two things don't coincide. I'm sorry, but they don't.


What exactly is impressive about Jay watching film? Every QB in the NFL watches film. The only reason coaches who were current with Jay have commented on his work ethic is a direct result of his reputation as a jack ass.'

:lol: Dude, this isn't making any sense. You said he wasn't a student of the game, and yet the coaches are making points on how he IS a student of the game. Then you want to say "how is that a big deal?" :confused: Make up your mind. JAKE was NOT a student of the game. He hated practice, and he hated game film study. THAT is known.


ell me Rav, if he's such a great student, why are his mechanics so freaking crappy?

Aww man, don't do this, you aren't making sense. Manning doesn't have good feet work, Rodgers throws sidearm, and Rivers has a weird throwing motion. What does that have a SINGLE thing to do about being a student of the game???? I think you are confused as to what is being discussed when someone refers to being a student of the game.

BroncoJoe
04-15-2014, 12:19 PM
Manning doesn't have good foot (feet) work?

artie_dale
04-15-2014, 12:58 PM
I've watched Manning (and have been a fan) since he was drafted and has played for Indi. IMO, he has had better footwork the last year and a half, than he's had with Indi. He's not fast by any means, but he has moved better and seems more condition than he has the last few yrs in Indi.

Ravage!!!
04-15-2014, 02:49 PM
I've watched Manning (and have been a fan) since he was drafted and has played for Indi. IMO, he has had better footwork the last year and a half, than he's had with Indi. He's not fast by any means, but he has moved better and seems more condition than he has the last few yrs in Indi.

Well, I'm more referring to his jittery feet when standing in the pocket. It's not "sound" or "perfect" foot mechanics for the QB position. But who cares, right? Studying the game doesn't have anything to do with mechanics.

Kerry Collins is one of the QBs that is always mentioned when talking about a QB that has/had "perfect" form. His technique and form mechanics, was spot on.

Ravage!!!
04-15-2014, 02:51 PM
Manning doesn't have good foot (feet) work?

Hmmm...now that you mention it, foot probably should have been the way to go.

Jsteve01
04-16-2014, 03:02 PM
. So heimerdunger completely tossing the playbook that kubes had used the previous year. A season in which Jake looked to be turning the corner and we made the AFC championship game. I guess that had zero to do with it. They completely scrapped the rollout game and determined to make snake a pocket passer.
Horseshit. Jake threw in the towel when Cutler was drafted. He played TERRRIBLE that year, and it's allb ecause his feelings were hurt. Everyone already knew that Jake didn't like to study, and idnd't like practice...that was a given. When Cutler was drafted, the writing was on the wall, and Jake folded mentally. This entire "They threw out the playbook and tried to make Jake something different" is total and complete BS.



And haloti ngata when healthy is the best tackle in football. Ray lewis had the benefit of playing with siragusa and sam adams prior to ngata. He's a very good player but to try to imply that a dt benefits as much from linebacker play as backers benefit from strong line play is a complete stretch. All those players were very good but I'd have loved to watch lewis try toget off with the garbage lines thebroncos trotted out in the shanahan era

No one is taking away fron Ngata's play. But hindsight is ALWAYS dead on, right? There is an article out right now that is talking about how teams HAVE to take QBs if they don't have one, even if they dont like any in the draft. Why? Because you NEED a top QB to be successful in this league anymore, and Plummer was NOT a good QB. The Broncos NEEDED a QB of the future, and the ONLY way you get a QB of the future is to DRAFT a QB. Just because you don't like Cutler doesn't mean the draft choice wasn't sound, it was VERY sound. Cutler today is a better QB than Plummer, despite the hatred around the boards.. If you couldnt see the change in game plan between the two coordinators then I have nothing left to say to you. We moved the pocket and ran a ton of rollout action to play to Jakes strengths under kubes and scrapped that style under dinger. I'm not saying Cutler wasn't a solid candidate but how do you draft the most important position on the team without even interviewing him?. We were a playoff team prior to Jakes benching even with the obvious attempts by dinger and shanny to undermine the guy.

Northman
04-16-2014, 03:27 PM
While Steve is right in terms of the offensive change he's wrong with Shanny "purposely" trying to undermine Jake. The only problem in the long run with the rollout was defenses were starting to snuff it and figure it out and it was no longer effective like it was for the 3 or so years prior. This is why Kubes rarely used the rollout in Houston. So while the offense did change under Dinger it wasnt an attempt to destroy Plummer as a QB and had Kubes stayed my guess is the rollout would of become less and less anyway. And once that happened and once Shanahan knew that Jake wasnt the guy he needed he drafted a QB in Cutler who he believed could be both a mobile QB and a premier pocket passer. Jake admitted himself that he only played for fun and it showed when he didnt want to put the extra effort in during the 06' season.

Ravage!!!
04-16-2014, 04:29 PM
. If you couldnt see the change in game plan between the two coordinators then I have nothing left to say to you. We moved the pocket and ran a ton of rollout action to play to Jakes strengths under kubes and scrapped that style under dinger. I'm not saying Cutler wasn't a solid candidate but how do you draft the most important position on the team without even interviewing him?. We were a playoff team prior to Jakes benching even with the obvious attempts by dinger and shanny to undermine the guy.

Oh come on. Why would they try to "undermine" Jake? :confused: For what purpose, and what would they gain? They could fire, or bench, him at ANY time.

As far as drafting a guy that they didnt' interview. Do you REALLY think they need to interview the guy to get knowledge and know about him? You don't think they watched hundreds of tapes and talked with everyone that was involved/coached him in the past?? It's not uncommon to draft a guy that you haven't interviewed, especially if you want to move up and draft the guy without people knowing you are interested. It worked, we got the best QB in that draft class.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-16-2014, 07:02 PM
No, you said Jay wasn't a student of the game and tried to use what Lynch said as proof. Those two things don't coincide. I'm sorry, but they don't.

'

:lol: Dude, this isn't making any sense. You said he wasn't a student of the game, and yet the coaches are making points on how he IS a student of the game. Then you want to say "how is that a big deal?" :confused: Make up your mind. JAKE was NOT a student of the game. He hated practice, and he hated game film study. THAT is known.



Aww man, don't do this, you aren't making sense. Manning doesn't have good feet work, Rodgers throws sidearm, and Rivers has a weird throwing motion. What does that have a SINGLE thing to do about being a student of the game???? I think you are confused as to what is being discussed when someone refers to being a student of the game.


I'm not sure why what I said is confusing to you. This discussion is probably pointless anyway because neither one of us is going to persuade the other. You're a fan of Cutler, and I am not. BTW, I am not out to defend Plummer. I'm not a fan of his either. My initial post was based solely on the fact that Ngata was my man crush that year, and I was disappointed when we didn't draft him.

What I am trying to say in a nutshell about Jay is:

I've heard coaches comment on his work ethic usually as a response to a question about his coachability. When I've heard someone comment on it they were defending him. Why were they defending him? Because he has a reputation that might be contrary to that. Personally, I don't care if he watches film. Every QB watches film. Students of the game are guys like Brady and Manning. I just don't see Cutler being anything like that, and for what it's worth, Rodgers isn't really considered a student of the game either, at least not according to what I've heard.

Also, comparing Jay's mechanics to Manning's is a little silly Rav. You know Jay is on par with Matt Stafford mechanically. They both throw 3\4 to sidearm more often than not, and frequently throw off their back foot.

Once again, I'm not defending Plummer. I'm just saying I was a big fan of Ngata coming out of Oregon and I didn't like the fact we passed on him and traded up to take a guy I never really cared for....to each his own.

TXBRONC
04-17-2014, 06:52 AM
. If you couldnt see the change in game plan between the two coordinators then I have nothing left to say to you. We moved the pocket and ran a ton of rollout action to play to Jakes strengths under kubes and scrapped that style under dinger. I'm not saying Cutler wasn't a solid candidate but how do you draft the most important position on the team without even interviewing him?. We were a playoff team prior to Jakes benching even with the obvious attempts by dinger and shanny to undermine the guy.

J, Shanahan didn't undermine Plummer. It's not true that He gave Plummer a new playbook. What Shanahan did was re-insert plays he had previously taken out because Plummer either was incapable of running them or just didn't want to take the time to get better at them. The interview thing has been explained many times. Shanahan didn't interview him but he did have scouted.

Ravage!!!
04-17-2014, 10:14 AM
Also, comparing Jay's mechanics to Manning's is a little silly Rav. You know Jay is on par with Matt Stafford mechanically. They both throw 3\4 to sidearm more often than not, and frequently throw off their back foot.

you are right, we aren't going to change each other's minds.

I wasn't comparing the mechanics of Cutler to Manning, I was saying that being a "student of the game" has NOTHING to do with mechanics. Zero. Nearly every QB has "bad" mechanics ify ou are going to be technical. I think you are overly critical of Cutler because you don't like him...ok. But saying that he's not on the likes of Manning and Brady as your explanation as to how he's not a student of the game, doesn't make sense. Just like in school, some people don't have to study math a whole lot to just "get it"...and others have to study a ton just to keep up. Manning and Brady are at the TOP of their class on this subject of reading defenses, but that doesn't mean others in the class aren't studying.

DenBronx
04-17-2014, 03:47 PM
Suprised the Cutler deal is winning the polls, I thought alot of Broncos fans hated the guy once that deal went down.

I never disliked Cutler at all and really hated when McDaniels caused the trade. If you guys search through those threads you will see where I stand on the issue. More than estactic for Manning now and he's a way better QB but I was glad we had Jay back then.


We should bump each of the threads for the poll then merge them all together in one big fat cluster f*** up thread.

Northman
04-17-2014, 03:57 PM
Suprised the Cutler deal is winning the polls, I



Honestly i was kind of surprised at that too. Especially considering how many things there was to choose from. lol

TXBRONC
04-17-2014, 04:11 PM
Suprised the Cutler deal is winning the polls, I thought alot of Broncos fans hated the guy once that deal went down.

I never disliked Cutler at all and really hated when McDaniels caused the trade. If you guys search through those threads you will see where I stand on the issue. More than estactic for Manning now and he's a way better QB but I was glad we had Jay back then.


We should bump each of the threads for the poll then merge them all together in one big fat cluster f*** up thread.


Honestly i was kind of surprised at that too. Especially considering how many things there was to choose from. lol

That makes three of us.

Ravage!!!
04-17-2014, 04:36 PM
That makes three of us.

Yeah...considering the 'hate' that the Cutler thing brought out of some fans, I'm very surprised. To me, Cutler just happened to be the first person to witness what a douche McDick was, and he took the brunt of the blow. It took about a year for the rest of us to catch on.

Dreadnought
04-17-2014, 04:42 PM
Honestly i was kind of surprised at that too. Especially considering how many things there was to choose from. lol

It was hard to limit the poll to only ten choices, frankly. Mike Leach and the Lamont Jordan/Laurence Maroney/Peyton Hillis hijinks at RB didn't even make the cut, and there were probably other flubs and miscues I could have added

TXBRONC
04-17-2014, 05:02 PM
It was hard to limit the poll to only ten choices, frankly. Mike Leach and the Lamont Jordan/Laurence Maroney/Peyton Hillis hijinks at RB didn't even make the cut, and there were probably other flubs and miscues I could have added

As someone pointed out the worst part of the Maroney trade is that McDaniels could have had Marshawn Lynch for the same price he got Maroney.

Ravage!!!
04-17-2014, 05:08 PM
As someone pointed out the worst part of the Maroney trade is that McDaniels could have had Marshawn Lynch for the same price he got Maroney for.

Fraaaaaaaaaaackkkkkkkkkk

Ravage!!!
04-17-2014, 05:09 PM
To me, just the IDEA of wanting to trade for Matt Cassel made me want to puke...

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-17-2014, 06:35 PM
Yeah...considering the 'hate' that the Cutler thing brought out of some fans, I'm very surprised. To me, Cutler just happened to be the first person to witness what a douche McDick was, and he took the brunt of the blow. It took about a year for the rest of us to catch on.

I doubt Culter was the first to witness it. Let's not forget there was a doctor who delivered McDoogy many years ago. :heh:

tomjonesrocks
04-17-2014, 06:43 PM
As someone pointed out the worst part of the Maroney trade is that McDaniels could have had Marshawn Lynch for the same price he got Maroney.

If BB is willing to accept a trade with you, ANY trade, it's best just to walk away.

FanInAZ
04-17-2014, 08:10 PM
Uuuuugh!

I didn't want to ever click on this thread because It's long past time to put McD to rest, but I did so by accident. Oh well, at least I didn't read a single post while making my way down to this comment line. :)

DenBronx
04-17-2014, 09:23 PM
You guys do realize not getting Marshawn Lynch really came back to bite us right? What a total moron McDaniels is...

DenBronx
04-17-2014, 09:25 PM
To me, just the IDEA of wanting to trade for Matt Cassel made me want to puke...

That was just adding insult to injury. Matt Cassel and Kyle Orton over Jay Cutler. What an awful idea...he let his ego get in the way of winning ball games.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-17-2014, 10:37 PM
'Hate'? Good grief, that's an exaggeration-

It's simple Rav, there's a difference between "imperfect" and "bad". Jay has "bad" mechanics. It's not overly critical, it's simple mechanics,which Jay doesn't have. It slows his delivery, causes inaccurate throws, and gets passes batted down.

Studying film is every qb's job. It doesn't make him a student. If he was a student he would try to fix what he's bad at. That's what "students"'do.

Simple Jaded
04-17-2014, 11:36 PM
Is it wrong that I hope Hillis hit Ms McDaniels rawdog and dumped his nut on Doogie's pillow?

DenBronx
04-18-2014, 12:28 AM
I really don't get why we're discussing Cutlers mechanics. He has very good mechanics. No one thinks he has Peyton Manning mechanics but he still has great NFL QB mechanics. You could make a case that Jay throws with better velocity, a deeper ball and perfect spirals. When he plants and makes good decisions he is on point.


Now if we want to debate decision making then that is a differant story. Jay doesn't always make the best decisions sometimes and that gets him into trouble. He did play with the worst OL in the NFL when he first joined the Bears....that doesn't help decision making. The great thing about Manning is his mind. His football IQ overrides mediocre play of WRs and poor protection from the OL. THAT'S the difference between a QB like Jay Cutler and Peyton Manning. A QB like Manning or Brady is a rarity in the NFL.....extremely hard to find. Really Manning is the mold for a QB. Jay is very good but he needs all of the tools around him for him to really shine. Has nothing to do with mechanics......just my two cents.

Northman
04-18-2014, 07:02 AM
'Hate'? Good grief, that's an exaggeration-

It's simple Rav, there's a difference between "imperfect" and "bad". Jay has "bad" mechanics. It's not overly critical, it's simple mechanics,which Jay doesn't have. It slows his delivery, causes inaccurate throws, and gets passes batted down.

Studying film is every qb's job. It doesn't make him a student. If he was a student he would try to fix what he's bad at. That's what "students"'do.

Well, but your not taking in account how bad the Chicago Oline is either. Even Manning when there is pressure in face has bad mechanics. (look no further than the SB and the Colts game). Jay has his share of problems but a lot of what your griping about has more to do with his limited time in the pocket. As i stated before, while Jay had his own hand in his leaving Denver his time in Bearland hasnt been the most ideal because of the lack of Oline protection and the constant coaching carousel going on around him.

BroncoJoe
04-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Whether you like Cutler or not - that could be the dumbest thing ever. I never really cared for Cutler, but I can admit when you have a young, potentially special QB you don't effing trade him!

It was the first indication something was terribly wrong in paradise.

chazoe60
04-18-2014, 08:22 AM
My favorite part of this thread was when Northman called me dumb for saying Ray Lewis benefitted more from playing with Ngata than Ngata benefitted by playing with Lewis. :laugh:

Dreadnought
04-18-2014, 08:29 AM
My favorite part of this thread was when Northman called me dumb for saying Ray Lewis benefitted more from playing with Ngata than Ngata benefitted by playing with Lewis. :laugh:

Well, MO calls you dumb all the time, so I'm not sure what the deal is. FTR they are wrong. You clearly have that crafty sort of cunning that mountain folk so often use to bamboozle the flatlanders.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-18-2014, 08:48 AM
For the record, I was upset when we traded Cutler. Our offense went backwards before we ever played a down.

Northman
04-18-2014, 10:30 AM
Well, MO calls you dumb all the time, so I'm not sure what the deal is. FTR they are wrong.

Me either, not too mention Chaz took what i said and twisted it entirely but thats kind of to be expected. :lol:

Ravage!!!
04-18-2014, 11:23 AM
'Hate'? Good grief, that's an exaggeration-
Not from what I'm reading, it's not.


It's simple Rav, there's a difference between "imperfect" and "bad". Jay has "bad" mechanics. It's not overly critical, it's simple mechanics,which Jay doesn't have. It slows his delivery, causes inaccurate throws, and gets passes batted down.
See, this is pure exaggeration.

Studying film is every qb's job. It doesn't make him a student. If he was a student he would try to fix what he's bad at. That's what "students"'do.
Al, mechanics and being a "student" of the game are COMPLETELY different things. Jay's mechanics aren't NEARLY as bad as you are trying to portray, and being a "student" of the game is more than just "watching film." YOU may not like to believe it, but every coach has commented on how good of a student Jay is of the game and the offense. He's a smart kid that is very coachable, DESPITE your "distaste" for him, those have been consistant comments from everyone that has worked with him.

Ravage!!!
04-18-2014, 11:24 AM
I think Ngata benefitted more from playing with the best LB to every play than the other way around.

Northman
04-18-2014, 11:30 AM
Im not really disputing that Ngata isnt a good player or that he has an effect on the team. But when you still have Suggs, Ngata, and then Doom and you defense ranking drops i think that says a lot about the importance that Lewis played on that team. It wasnt just Ray's talent that stood out but his ability to be an inspirational leader as well. Anyone who doesnt think that Lewis made those around him better just werent paying attention to that team in general.

chazoe60
04-18-2014, 01:26 PM
Bwhahahahahahahahaha

Dude, Lewis was an all pro before Ngata even arrived. Even you cant be that dumb.


Me either, not too mention Chaz took what i said and twisted it entirely but thats kind of to be expected. :lol:
Show me where I twisted something you said.

Northman
04-18-2014, 01:31 PM
Show me where I twisted something you said.

You took what i said in regards to Lewis being an allpro before Ngata even got drafted and made it sound like i said that Ngata was garbage and didnt contribute to the team. For further clarification for you see post 196.

chazoe60
04-18-2014, 02:25 PM
You took what i said in regards to Lewis being an allpro before Ngata even got drafted and made it sound like i said that Ngata was garbage and didnt contribute to the team. For further clarification for you see post 196.
I never insinuated anything even close to that. Holy shit, and I'm the one who "can't even be that dumb"? You said Ngata had the good fortune to play with Lewis and I simply said that it was my belief that Lewis had the good fortune to play with Ngata. A good DT helps a MLB much more than a good MLB helps a DT, it's just the nature of defense. You're the one that got all shitty and called me dumb for pointing out a fundamental aspect of defense.

slim
04-18-2014, 02:54 PM
I think I would rather have a golden shower than read anymore of this slap fight between Chaz and North.

chazoe60
04-18-2014, 02:58 PM
I think I would rather have a golden shower than read anymore of this slap fight between Chaz and North.

Yeah, but you'd rather have a golden shower than do most things.

Northman
04-18-2014, 03:59 PM
I think I would rather have a golden shower than read anymore of this slap fight between Chaz and North.

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd497/snorkack1/GIFs/630283_original.gif

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-18-2014, 06:27 PM
Not from what I'm reading, it's not.


See, this is pure exaggeration.

Al, mechanics and being a "student" of the game are COMPLETELY different things. Jay's mechanics aren't NEARLY as bad as you are trying to portray, and being a "student" of the game is more than just "watching film." YOU may not like to believe it, but every coach has commented on how good of a student Jay is of the game and the offense. He's a smart kid that is very coachable, DESPITE your "distaste" for him, those have been consistant comments from everyone that has worked with him.


Maybe your right about Jay, but saying I have hate for him IS an exaggeration. No, I don't care for him, but I dont hate him. Being critical of someone and having hostility towards them are not the same thing. I don't really know what to say if you think my critique of his game is hostility.

atwater27
04-19-2014, 09:38 AM
I just love seeing people piss all over Josh McDaniels. It makes me feel so happy in my heart.

Ravage!!!
04-19-2014, 09:59 AM
Maybe your right about Jay, but saying I have hate for him IS an exaggeration. No, I don't care for him, but I dont hate him. Being critical of someone and having hostility towards them are not the same thing. I don't really know what to say if you think my critique of his game is hostility.

Ok, fair enough. It just felt as though the 'disdain' was pretty deep. Even if you did, I still respect your opinion. :beer:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-19-2014, 12:51 PM
Ok, fair enough. It just felt as though the 'disdain' was pretty deep. Even if you did, I still respect your opinion. :beer:

Well, the conversation did make me think about my reaction. I shouldn't dislike him as much as I do. As a Denver fan my passion level is only a 6 out of 10, which isnt strong enough to hate. :heh:

I respect your opinion too. I do think Jay is a good football player. I just don't like his mechanics.

Jsteve01
04-19-2014, 08:16 PM
I think Ngata benefitted more from playing with the best LB to every play than the other way around.. Seriously? Come on man. A dt benefitted more from a backer than the reverse? They lost their entire linebacking corps last year not just lewis. Hence the drop . Lewis is a fantastic player but he benefitted mightily from playing with the likes of siragusa Adams and ngata

Simple Jaded
04-19-2014, 08:50 PM
Well, the conversation did make me think about my reaction. I shouldn't dislike him as much as I do. As a Denver fan my passion level is only a 6 out of 10, which isnt strong enough to hate. :heh:

I respect your opinion too. I do think Jay is a good football player. I just don't like his mechanics.

To be fair, Cutler didn't say all Broncos fans are a 6, I didn't take offense because I knew he wasn't talking about me.

Jsteve01
04-19-2014, 09:30 PM
Well I don't think any of mferss know diddly :-)

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-19-2014, 10:13 PM
To be fair, Cutler didn't say all Broncos fans are a 6, I didn't take offense because I knew he wasn't talking about me.

Right, because he was specific about fans who go to TC practices? Whether it offends you or not doesn't change the fact it.showed a lack of class.

Canmore
04-19-2014, 10:30 PM
Right, because he was specific about fans who go to TC practices? Whether it offends you or not doesn't change the fact it.showed a lack of class.

When it comes to class and Cutler the only thing they have in common is they both start with the letter c.

Simple Jaded
04-20-2014, 12:30 AM
Right, because he was specific about fans who go to TC practices? Whether it offends you or not doesn't change the fact it.showed a lack of class.

It showed a lack of class to pimp the fans of the team he currently played for and take a shot at a segment of fans that shit all over him?

He don't like you any more than you like him. Who cares anyway? When it comes to some players I'll take the 6, I'll take a big fat 0 when it comes to Tebow.

MOtorboat
04-20-2014, 12:42 AM
It showed a lack of class to pimp the fans of the team he currently played for and take a shot at a segment of fans that shit all over him?

He don't like you any more than you like him. Who cares anyway? When it comes to some players I'll take the 6, I'll take a big fat 0 when it comes to Tebow.

I'm sorry, but LOL.

Cutler is a classless douche. It has nothing to do with "the fans that shit all over him." It has everything to do with his character.

For everything McDaniels did (and didn't do) and the (classless) reactions fans had to him, he's never said anything like that. Yet look at all the idiotic insults you see in this thread.

**** Cutler.

Simple Jaded
04-20-2014, 12:45 AM
I'm sorry, but LOL.

Cutler is a classless douche. It has nothing to do with "the fans that shit all over him." It has everything to do with his character.

For everything McDaniels did (and didn't do) and the (classless) reactions fans had to him, he's never said anything like that. Yet look at all the idiotic insults you see in this thread.

**** Cutler.

He said Broncos fans weren't as good as Bears fans, boo hoo.

Simple Jaded
04-20-2014, 12:52 AM
Hey, y'all call him classless and even I think he's a world class ass-hole, so who cares what he thinks?

Northman
04-20-2014, 07:23 AM
A dt benefitted more from a backer than the reverse? They lost their entire linebacking corps last year not just lewis. Hence the drop .

Well, wait a minute. If the LB corps benefits so much from the DT's than why the drop? The Ravens have one of the best front guys in the league yet their defense was worse after Lewis left. If the LB's dont mean as much than there should of been no drop right? I mean come on, make up your mind here. I guess Ray Lewis will have to put an asterisk next to his name when going into the HOF because the only reason he and other great LB's get in is because of the guys up front. lmao

atwater27
04-20-2014, 09:35 AM
I'm sorry, but LOL.

Cutler is a classless douche.

For everything McDaniels did (and didn't do) and the (classless) reactions fans had to him, Yet look at all the idiotic insults you see in this thread.

**** Cutler.
Complaining about the classless and idiotic insults against McDaniels while at the same time applying the same rhetoric to Cutler. :coffee:

atwater27
04-20-2014, 09:41 AM
Well, wait a minute. If the LB corps benefits so much from the DT's than why the drop? The Ravens have one of the best front guys in the league yet their defense was worse after Lewis left. If the LB's dont mean as much than there should of been no drop right? I mean come on, make up your mind here. I guess Ray Lewis will have to put an asterisk next to his name when going into the HOF because the only reason he and other great LB's get in is because of the guys up front. lmao

What is this dropoff you speak of? We were all excited a few months ago at the thought of getting Daryl Smith as a free agent, but Baltimore wasn't having it and locked him up. They only plugged him into the defense in Ray's absence last year and he amazingly came up with career best numbers of 123 tackles, 2 FF, 5 sacks, 3 int's with a TD and 18 pas deflections, (which, by the way broke a Ray Lewis held Ravens record.) Either middle linebackers are a dime a dozen or both Daryl and Ray had a damn good line.

Northman
04-20-2014, 10:29 AM
What is this dropoff you speak of?

Total defense. Not too mention there were massive complaints last year about no leadership on the Ravens.

Simple Jaded
04-20-2014, 01:23 PM
I'll give you one thing MO, if either should be calling Broncos fans a "6" it would be McDaniels, considering fans actually wanted him to go.

They're both childish, both ass-holes and both now gone, yet only one was even remotely worth the brain damage.

Shazam!
04-20-2014, 01:33 PM
I don't know why people still even waste a moment rehashing McD and Cutler. For as bad as those years with McD were, Denver is clearly better off with Elway. They're a totally different franchise now.

Dzone
04-20-2014, 02:02 PM
I guess it helps to look back at how miserable things were, makes now look even sweeter, even after 43-8

Shazam!
04-20-2014, 02:16 PM
I'm done agonizing after the SB and looking towards 2014.

Nomad
04-20-2014, 02:33 PM
I had forgotten the BRONCOS even played in the Superbowl:lol:

spikerman
04-20-2014, 02:36 PM
I had forgotten the BRONCOS even played in the Superbowl:lol:

Well, in your defense, they really didn't.

chazoe60
04-20-2014, 03:38 PM
I guess Ray Lewis will have to put an asterisk next to his name when going into the HOF because the only reason he and other great LB's get in is because of the guys up front. lmao

Yep that's what everyone is saying. :rolleyes:

Northman
04-20-2014, 06:39 PM
I had forgotten the BRONCOS even played in the Superbowl:lol:

Yea, i had forgotten they were playing in it too when the second half started.

chazoe60
04-20-2014, 06:47 PM
Yea, i had forgotten they were playing in it too when the second half started.
So did the Broncos.

spikerman
04-20-2014, 06:56 PM
Yea, i had forgotten they were playing in it too when the second half started.

What took you so long?

Simple Jaded
04-20-2014, 11:46 PM
Ray Lewis was nowhere near as effective in the years between Adams/Siragusa and Ngata, he had no problem complaining about it either.

Northman
04-21-2014, 03:50 AM
Ray Lewis was nowhere near as effective in the years between Adams/Siragusa and Ngata, he had no problem complaining about it either.

Thats ok, Ngata wasnt near as effective this year either.

BroncoWave
04-21-2014, 07:22 AM
Man, if we are ever bad for more than a year and a half (which is the entirety of the time we were bad under McD) I think our fans might commit a mass suicide. You'd think we had a Browns/Lions stretch of futility from reading this thread. :lol:

atwater27
04-21-2014, 08:07 AM
Man, if we are ever bad for more than a year and a half (which is the entirety of the time we were bad under McD) I think our fans might commit a mass suicide. You'd think we had a Browns/Lions stretch of futility from reading this thread. :lol:

That's ok, because no other coach could be so inept as to do as much damage to a team as McD did in that amount of time. We have had the worst possible team situation with that tool. Everything else is gravy.

sneakers
04-22-2014, 03:46 AM
hahhaha golden showers

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-23-2014, 08:06 PM
Thats ok, Ngata wasnt near as effective this year either.

Ngata has been pretty banged up the last couple of years. The constant double teams take a toll. He might be in the twilight of his career.

Northman
04-24-2014, 04:51 AM
Ngata has been pretty banged up the last couple of years. The constant double teams take a toll. He might be in the twilight of his career.

:lol::lol:

Jsteve01
04-24-2014, 01:16 PM
Ngata has been pretty banged up the last couple of years. The constant double teams take a toll. He might be in the twilight of his career.

:lol::lol: can't post the link but google ngata banged up nd read the article from the sun last year

Northman
04-24-2014, 02:22 PM
can't post the link but google ngata banged up nd read the article from the sun last year

Thats not what made me laugh. I just found it funny that the injury card was brought out and yet Lewis not only has been on the decline age wise the last 5 years but has battled his own injury issues yet nothing got mentioned. Just struck me funny the excuses.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-24-2014, 03:05 PM
Thats not what made me laugh. I just found it funny that the injury card was brought out and yet Lewis not only has been on the decline age wise the last 5 years but has battled his own injury issues yet nothing got mentioned. Just struck me funny the excuses.

Excuses? I haven't said anything about Lewis, and what was inaccurate about what I said?

Could it be that both Lewis AND Ngata were great players?

Northman
04-24-2014, 03:38 PM
Could it be that both Lewis AND Ngata were great players?

Of course.

But i can guarantee only one of them is getting into the HOF and it isnt going to be Ngata.

BroncoWave
04-24-2014, 05:24 PM
We have had the worst possible team situation with that tool.

No, we didn't. This is absolute crazy talk. The 0-16 Lions had a worse team situation. The Browns who have not won a playoff game since coming back to Cleveland have had a worse situation. The Raiders last 12 years of futility is a worse situation. We were bad for literally one and a half seasons. The fact that you think the McD era was the worst possible situation a team could have shows how little perspective you have when it comes to other teams' situations.

Northman
04-24-2014, 06:40 PM
The fact that you think the McD era was the worst possible situation a team could have shows how little perspective you have when it comes to other teams' situations.

Not really.

The good news is that we just dont have an owner who is going to put up with that kind of shit for long. Had this team been run by someone like Al Davis or clubs like the Lions and Browns we would still be scraping the bottom of the division barrel. But again, thankfully we have a owner that saw the issue and took the opportunity to correct it before it got way out of hand and we ENDED up like the Lions or Browns. You just cant compare the other clubs to what happened with us because we just didnt have an owner who was going to let it get that bad.

SoCalImport
04-24-2014, 08:17 PM
Can we agree not to call it an "era"? I like "the Mcdaniels hickup" seems more fitting right?

spikerman
04-24-2014, 09:16 PM
Honestly, is there anyone who doesn't think that if given enough time McDaniels would have run the franchise into the ground?

Canmore
04-24-2014, 09:27 PM
Honestly, is there anyone who doesn't think that if given enough time McDaniels would have run the franchise into the ground?

He ran it into the ground. Make no mistake about that. Thank God we didn't stay there.

BroncoWave
04-24-2014, 10:53 PM
Not really.

The good news is that we just dont have an owner who is going to put up with that kind of shit for long. Had this team been run by someone like Al Davis or clubs like the Lions and Browns we would still be scraping the bottom of the division barrel. But again, thankfully we have a owner that saw the issue and took the opportunity to correct it before it got way out of hand and we ENDED up like the Lions or Browns. You just cant compare the other clubs to what happened with us because we just didnt have an owner who was going to let it get that bad.

You just made my point for me. The fact that we have an owner like Bowlen is EXACTLY why our team wasn't in "the worst possible team situation" as atwater put it.

Simple Jaded
04-24-2014, 10:57 PM
Can we agree not to call it an "era"? I like "the Mcdaniels hickup" seems more fitting right?

I like "Error", the Josh McDaniels Error.

Northman
04-25-2014, 04:27 AM
You just made my point for me. The fact that we have an owner like Bowlen is EXACTLY why our team wasn't in "the worst possible team situation" as atwater put it.

Well no, the year or so that McDaniels was here was pretty bad dude. While its great that Bowlen took the trash out it doesnt change how crappy that year and a half was and it was a very poor situation for this team to be in. You cant just wipe it away and say its not the worst possible team situation because before McD was cut loose it was a very bad situation. And thankfully our owner didnt allow the guy to further destroy the team.

BroncoWave
04-25-2014, 06:12 AM
Well no, the year or so that McDaniels was here was pretty bad dude. While its great that Bowlen took the trash out it doesnt change how crappy that year and a half was and it was a very poor situation for this team to be in. You cant just wipe it away and say its not the worst possible team situation because before McD was cut loose it was a very bad situation. And thankfully our owner didnt allow the guy to further destroy the team.

The 0-16 Lions team was a worse situation. The Raiders since their last SB appearance have been a worse situation. The Browns since returning to Cleveland is a worse situation. You are letting your McD hate blind you if you think the situation under him was worse than under those teams. The fact that it only lasted for a year and a half IS relevant. It shows that our roster wasn't nearly as bad off as many of you made it out to be. We've also found out that many of the players he got rid of (Cutler, Sheff, Hillis) weren't near the players Broncos fans thought they were. I'm not saying that last year under McD wasn't bad, but to say it was the worse NFL situation ever is hyperbole to an insane degree.

TXBRONC
04-25-2014, 06:44 AM
Not really.

The good news is that we just dont have an owner who is going to put up with that kind of shit for long. Had this team been run by someone like Al Davis or clubs like the Lions and Browns we would still be scraping the bottom of the division barrel. But again, thankfully we have a owner that saw the issue and took the opportunity to correct it before it got way out of hand and we ENDED up like the Lions or Browns. You just cant compare the other clubs to what happened with us because we just didnt have an owner who was going to let it get that bad.

If a person can't see that with McDaniels' continual public pissing contests with players and coaches, Spygate II, the lying, and the taking of his staff before Bowlen to dress them down after a lose show a very shallow understanding of just how bad things were. I don't recall hearing those kinds of things with the Lions or the Browns.