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Shazam!
04-01-2014, 08:54 PM
Former Skins C now a Bronco, one year deal -

http://teamstre.am/1jWq2kqnullviable.ac/teamstream

VonDoom
04-01-2014, 09:15 PM
I guess he didn't get any other offers, since he was here visiting us and left a week or two ago, right? Deal is $1.3 million, from what I've read. I know nothing about this guy, really. Is it just depth, or are they really planning to start him at C?

topscribe
04-01-2014, 09:27 PM
I guess he didn't get any other offers, since he was here visiting us and left a week or two ago, right? Deal is $1.3 million, from what I've read. I know nothing about this guy, really. Is it just depth, or are they really planning to start him at C?

Here's a short article that will tell you a little about him (http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/4/1/5572506/report-broncos-agree-to-terms-with-center-will-montgomery).
.

Denver Native (Carol)
04-01-2014, 09:38 PM
Easy, Orlando.

The Broncos may not need Orlando Franklin, their starting right tackle, to move inside to left guard, after all. Not after the Broncos reached agreement Tuesday with veteran center Will Montgomery on a one-year, $1.325 million deal.

Montgomery, who can earn additional pay by reaching play-time incentives, will compete with Manny Ramirez for the Broncos' starting center position. If Montgomery wins the starting spot, the Broncos could move Ramirez to his more natural guard position.

The Broncos have a vacancy at left guard after four-year starter Zane Beadles became a free agent and signed a five-year, $30 million contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25471899/broncos-reach-agreement-veteran-center-will-montgomery

Dapper Dan
04-01-2014, 09:42 PM
April Fools joke by John.

Denver Native (Carol)
04-01-2014, 09:54 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- As far as NFL players go, Will Montgomery is a bit of a late bloomer.

In his first five seasons, spent with the Carolina Panthers, the New York Jets and Washington, Montgomery was usually a backup, starting 15 games of the 52 in which he played in that span. Until joining Washington late in the 2008 season, he had been waived three times in a 14-month span.

But in Washington, Montgomery found a home at center. So even though he's 31, Montgomery has just three seasons of experience as a full-time starter, and has enjoyed good health and solid play. The 6-foot-3, 304-pounder should be at the cusp of his prime years, and his reasonable contract is part of why Washington's decision to release him this month was so unexpected.

With Montgomery in place, the dominoes will fall. Manny Ramirez, a guard who moved to center last year, could shift back to guard, where he'd have the opportunity to replace Zane Beadles, who signed with the Jaguars this offseason. This would also keep Orlando Franklin at right tackle; since the offseason began, there had been speculation that he could be moved to guard, a position he played at the University of Miami.

rest - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/What-Montgomery-Brings-to-Broncos/20ba82c8-e353-4f5f-aa5f-c1968d48c024

luckyseven
04-01-2014, 09:56 PM
rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25471899/broncos-reach-agreement-veteran-center-will-montgomery

Thanks as always for posting snipets to the forum.

I see this as TC. Fodder as I believe John will go after a top OC in the draft with pick one.

Or at worst a the top OG and then an OC later on.

If he becomes the real deal which I doubt at 304 and has been exclusively used as a zone blocking center the past three years. Not sure how it fits into our power blocking game and pass protection for Manning , as Manning is less mobile then RG three of us

VonDoom
04-01-2014, 10:15 PM
Here's a short article that will tell you a little about him (http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/4/1/5572506/report-broncos-agree-to-terms-with-center-will-montgomery).
.

Thanks, Top. I didn't realize he played nearly every snap for the last three years, and graded out well too. I don't know if he'll start here, but I like that he'll come in with a starter's mentality and at the very least push Ramirez or whoever in TC. I still think we go OG in the first round, but we have some more flexibility along the line than we had before. I'd like Franklin to stay where he is, and I like the idea of Clark as the super sub backup plan.

luckyseven
04-01-2014, 10:30 PM
Thanks, Top. I didn't realize he played nearly every snap for the last three years, and graded out well too. I don't know if he'll start here, but I like that he'll come in with a starter's mentality and at the very least push Ramirez or whoever in TC. I still think we go OG in the first round, but we have some more flexibility along the line than we had before. I'd like Franklin to stay where he is, and I like the idea of Clark as the super sub backup plan.

Myself I do not see franklin happy as a OG. He will bolt next year for OT money, if the force him to OG IMO.

As you said it give the coaching staff loads of flexibility on who plays and who is backup in all sorts of ways.

There is little doubt they will draft either an OG or OC in the first IMO.

Simple Jaded
04-01-2014, 10:31 PM
Just when they finally get rid of Beadles.

This dude better damn well be a depth signing.

luckyseven
04-01-2014, 10:33 PM
Just when they finally get rid of Beadles.

This dude better damn well be a depth signing.

At 304 he is going to have to put on some weight to play either OG OC. He was a finesse ZBS player in DC.

Power blocking is probably not in his quiver.

Dapper Dan
04-01-2014, 10:37 PM
I thought I posted this, but he's an 87 overall on Madden. :coffee:

Simple Jaded
04-01-2014, 10:37 PM
At 304 he is going to have to put on some weight to play either OG OC. He was a finesse ZBS player in DC.

Power blocking is probably not in his quiver.

Totally agree, don't much care about the weight but the very fact that he was a Shanatan OL takes him out of consideration for me. Hopefully I'm wrong but Shanatan has the very worst eye for OL.

Dapper Dan
04-01-2014, 10:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8nUQogJsfw

Dapper Dan
04-01-2014, 10:44 PM
Totally agree, don't much care about the weight but the very fact that he was a Shanatan OL takes him out of consideration for me. Hopefully I'm wrong but Shanatan has the very worst eye for OL.

Didn't he draft Ryan Clady?

Simple Jaded
04-01-2014, 10:46 PM
Didn't he draft Ryan Clady?

And Kuper, broken clock. Between Clady/Kuper and Stink/Zimmerman there was far too many Ben Hamilton's.

luckyseven
04-01-2014, 10:58 PM
Totally agree, don't much care about the weight but the very fact that he was a Shanatan OL takes him out of consideration for me. Hopefully I'm wrong but Shanatan has the very worst eye for OL.


For his style of play ZBS and a running/mobile QB he has done pretty good.

But since he left Denver we have been moving to power blocking and pocket pass protection.

luckyseven
04-01-2014, 10:59 PM
Didn't he draft Ryan Clady?

A broken clock is correct twice a day.

It was also the first first he used since Foster, which kind of averages out a c-

Most of his drafted OL types were 4th or later.

Dapper Dan
04-01-2014, 11:02 PM
I just think it's crazy when you say someone is the "worst" at something and then whenever they're right it's luck or something. Be reasonable.

luckyseven
04-01-2014, 11:03 PM
And Kuper, broken clock. Between Clady/Kuper and Stink/Zimmerman there was far too many Ben Hamilton's.

Yet again Kuper was a ZBS guy. He was the best ofthe rest. But probably could not hack it on today's OL.

topscribe
04-01-2014, 11:10 PM
Didn't he draft Ryan Clady?
And Chris Kuper, Chris Myers, and Kory Lichtensteiger . . .
.

Cugel
04-01-2014, 11:22 PM
Myself I do not see franklin happy as a OG. He will bolt next year for OT money, if the force him to OG IMO.

As you said it give the coaching staff loads of flexibility on who plays and who is backup in all sorts of ways.

There is little doubt they will draft either an OG or OC in the first IMO.

John Elway's frank talk with Franklin's agent + the signing of Montgomery means the following:

1. The Broncos are not thrilled with Orlando's pass-blocking ability or they would never consider moving him at all. After all, they could have simply have signed a veteran guard or drafted a G in one of the top 3 rounds and left Franklin at RT -- in which case there would be nothing to talk to his agent about and Franklin wouldn't be "pissed". They still might draft one anyway.

2. Montgomery will compete with Manny Ramirez to start at C. If he looks good then they can move Ramirez back to LG in Zane Beadles' spot. They obviously didn't think much of Beadles or they would have made him an offer. If not, then they still need a LG and look to see Franklin moved inside to G on an experimental basis.

3. This probably leaves Franklin competing with Chris Clark for the starting RT spot. Franklin is a better run blocker, but Clark is MUCH better at pass-blocking. I wouldn't put much money on Franklin keeping his starting job barring injuries at this point.

4. Either way it shakes out, the Broncos would have depth at both tackle spots, if they start Clark at RT because if either Clady isn't ready to go they can move Clark back over and start him again at LT. And if he gets hurt, they just move Franklin into the starting RT spot.

5. Even if they draft a G, look to see the Broncos either try and pick up a veteran guard during training camp or the pre-season. The last 2 seasons they picked up several veterans who hit the waiver wire and who played significant minutes during the season. This off-season they will be looking to add reasonably priced depth along the OL and in the LB corps.

I think it's quite likely that Franklin will be moving on after this season as his rookie contract expires this year and the team certainly does not appear wedded to him and he's not happy.

His comment "I'm committed to me" -- translation: "I'm not happy the team didn't have more confidence in me, but I'm going to bust my butt to prove them wrong! I'm entering my salary drive and am determined to have a big year despite those ********!"

Cugel
04-01-2014, 11:24 PM
Yet again Kuper was a ZBS guy. He was the best ofthe rest. But probably could not hack it on today's OL.

Well, considering that his ankles were shot, no. He would have had to sign a veteran minimum contract with some team and come in with no guarantees he'd even make the 53 man roster. And with his injuries it would have been an uphill struggle just to hang on in the league, with the probability that he'd never start again. Better to leave with a little dignity, than get cut in training camp like Jerry Rice did here.

topscribe
04-01-2014, 11:33 PM
Well, considering that his ankles were shot, no. He would have had to sign a veteran minimum contract with some team and come in with no guarantees he'd even make the 53 man roster. And with his injuries it would have been an uphill struggle just to hang on in the league, with the probability that he'd never start again. Better to leave with a little dignity, than get cut in training camp like Jerry Rice did here.
True. I have to disagree with my friend luckyseven, though. I believe a truly healthy
Kuper would have done just fine today . . .
.

Simple Jaded
04-01-2014, 11:39 PM
I just think it's crazy when you say someone is the "worst" at something and then whenever they're right it's luck or something. Be reasonable.

Fine, he was great at finding OL that sucked.

Dapper Dan
04-01-2014, 11:42 PM
Then shouldn't this guy be good since that idiot Shanatan let him go? I mean, if he sucks at grading OL then he probably let a great Center go.

Ziggy
04-02-2014, 12:30 AM
Here is a PFF article about him from his year 2 seasons ago.


Though he had shown signs that he could be a decent player on that Redskins offensive line, his level of play in 2012 was a bit of a surprise. Missing just six of the team’s offensive snaps throughout the entire year, he played well enough to finish as our fifth highest graded center, ahead of impressive players like Nick Mangold and Chris Myers.

Solid as a pass blocker, where his Pass Blocking Efficiency rating of 98.2 was 11th among all players at the position, it was as a run blocker where he really stood out. His run blocking grade of +16.0 was the fourth best mark of all centers in 2012, and tied for 16th best since we began grading in 2008.

His consistency was key too, with just 51 negatively graded plays and three penalties in 1,112 snaps showing that, while he may not have been mauling opposing defensive linemen downfield, he did a solid job as a blocker to open holes for the Redskins running game.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/06/14/secret-superstar-will-montgomery/

Obviously he didn't have as good of a season last year, but he was still decent. I'll be interested to see how he competes leaving the ZBS that the Skins run. I think he's a better fit for the Broncos scheme. He should provide good depth and challenge ManRam for a starting position. I really hope that the plan isn't to move Montgomery into the starting center spot and move Ramirez to guard. He's far better at the center position.

Dzone
04-02-2014, 12:51 AM
George Foster was a brilliant Shanahan pick...20th overall pick 2003...Thanks shanatan...Ya shanahan knows OL alright...but He did draft clady ..
Montgomery sounds decent, but is no way as physically powerful and manram but maybe is a smarter player. I dont know manrams grade and how many penalties were caused by manny. Could see him sliding over to Beadles spot if Monty comes through

luckyseven
04-02-2014, 01:46 AM
John Elway's frank talk with Franklin's agent + the signing of Montgomery means the following:

1. The Broncos are not thrilled with Orlando's pass-blocking ability or they would never consider moving him at all. After all, they could have simply have signed a veteran guard or drafted a G in one of the top 3 rounds and left Franklin at RT -- in which case there would be nothing to talk to his agent about and Franklin wouldn't be "pissed". They still might draft one anyway.

2. Montgomery will compete with Manny Ramirez to start at C. If he looks good then they can move Ramirez back to LG in Zane Beadles' spot. They obviously didn't think much of Beadles or they would have made him an offer. If not, then they still need a LG and look to see Franklin moved inside to G on an experimental basis.

3. This probably leaves Franklin competing with Chris Clark for the starting RT spot. Franklin is a better run blocker, but Clark is MUCH better at pass-blocking. I wouldn't put much money on Franklin keeping his starting job barring injuries at this point.

4. Either way it shakes out, the Broncos would have depth at both tackle spots, if they start Clark at RT because if either Clady isn't ready to go they can move Clark back over and start him again at LT. And if he gets hurt, they just move Franklin into the starting RT spot.

5. Even if they draft a G, look to see the Broncos either try and pick up a veteran guard during training camp or the pre-season. The last 2 seasons they picked up several veterans who hit the waiver wire and who played significant minutes during the season. This off-season they will be looking to add reasonably priced depth along the OL and in the LB corps.

I think it's quite likely that Franklin will be moving on after this season as his rookie contract expires this year and the team certainly does not appear wedded to him and he's not happy.

His comment "I'm committed to me" -- translation: "I'm not happy the team didn't have more confidence in me, but I'm going to bust my butt to prove them wrong! I'm entering my salary drive and am determined to have a big year despite those ********!"

The key to #1 is no one knows if there was a frank conversation. It is all speculation as John is not talking.

As for the rest your thoughts are as good as anyone's.

luckyseven
04-02-2014, 01:50 AM
Well, considering that his ankles were shot, no. He would have had to sign a veteran minimum contract with some team and come in with no guarantees he'd even make the 53 man roster. And with his injuries it would have been an uphill struggle just to hang on in the league, with the probability that he'd never start again. Better to leave with a little dignity, than get cut in training camp like Jerry Rice did here.
With or without the bad ankles he was not going compete with the studs that Johns is loading up with. shanahans OL was being phased out as not big enough or good enough to pocket pass protect. Clady being the lone exception mainly because he actually used a top draft choice to get him.

tomjonesrocks
04-02-2014, 08:53 AM
I thought I posted this, but he's an 87 overall on Madden. :coffee:

How's his speed if we send him on a go route?

broncofaninfla
04-02-2014, 09:17 AM
Good depth signing

Ravage!!!
04-02-2014, 10:15 AM
I'm glad seven isn't our OL coach.

Other than Foster and Clady, Shanahan didn't use high round picks on OL...thus...getting the production he did with the talent he found in the later rounds proves, to me, that he actually was pretty damned good with OL talent. It's easier to pick "right" on high round picks....unless you are Belicheck.

Would seem that this Montgomery has the starting caliber and ability to be a decent player. Is he the starter, we don't know, but he CERTAINLY has the capabilities to be. If there isn't a top center in the draft available, then this is plan B. This gives John the flexibility to take the BPA without having to draft for "need." I don't think Montgomeries weight is a problem, either. I'm pretty sure Manning played most of his career under a center that was right around 300lbs.

Cugel
04-02-2014, 11:32 AM
The key to #1 is no one knows if there was a frank conversation. It is all speculation as John is not talking.

As for the rest your thoughts are as good as anyone's.

Why else would Franklin post on twitter that he's "pissed" if they're not moving him? He has to be "pissed" about something, right? They clearly told him something that he didn't like enough to lash out about it, then after thinking that saying you're "pissed" with the team might not be the smartest move any player ever made, he removes the comment.

Without Franklin's comments we just have the story leaked by his agent (we know it was leaked by Rosenhaus because Elway was the only other witness and he's not commenting, so clearly the story comes from Rosenhaus's side of the conversation).

But, Franklin essentially confirms the story by getting angry about the proposed move.

And from Franklin's POV you can understand it. THIS is is last year before he enters FA and he's looking for that BIG$$$ contract. Then suddenly he's possibly being shuffled to a new position where he might struggle or even wind up as a backup.

This could cost him MILLIONS of $ in FA whether he stays here in Denver or goes to another team. The difference is the difference between the salary of a starting NFL RT and a backup. Lots and lots. About as much $ as you might make in 25 years or so (if you're an average wage earner in Denver). That's a lot to lose, so he's not happy.

His reaction is to prove everybody wrong by having a great season and then going elsewhere for the big payday. If he does, fine. That doesn't hurt Denver.

Cugel
04-02-2014, 11:38 AM
Would seem that this Montgomery has the starting caliber and ability to be a decent player. Is he the starter, we don't know, but he CERTAINLY has the capabilities to be. If there isn't a top center in the draft available, then this is plan B. This gives John the flexibility to take the BPA without having to draft for "need." I don't think Montgomeries weight is a problem, either. I'm pretty sure Manning played most of his career under a center that was right around 300lbs.

Skipping over arguments about really OLD stuff (Shanahan) I'd say you're right about Montgomery. Even if there's a top center in the draft that doesn't mean a raw rookie can come right in and master Peyton Manning's offense. Think about that for one moment. The center is going to be responsible for checking the line assignments.

You need a veteran at that position, which is why Elway went out and got one. Either Montgomery does what he's expected to, or he doesn't. If not, he's a backup and they need to pick up a veteran G in FA sometime this summer. They could even trade for somebody. It's possible to get a G somewhere. There are always guys at that position who are looking for work, and some are reasonably promising.

Like Montgomery. If he works out, then they can try moving Clark to RT and have him compete with Franklin, or else just try Franklin out at G and see if he can backup and Chris Clark would be a better pass-blocker at RT.

Franklin might wind up not starting this season if they try him out at G, which could be why he's "pissed." Clearly Manny Ramirez is a better LG than Franklin would be.

Dapper Dan
04-02-2014, 11:43 AM
I think the FO likes versatility on the line. We get DE/DT like Wolfe. A RT that could play guard. Two guys that could play guard or center. A guy like Garland(?) that switch from DL to OL. Stuff like that helps when the injury bug hits.

topscribe
04-02-2014, 12:42 PM
Good depth signing
And that's exactly what Montgomery is. Here is a realistic assessment of his
abilities and he has (and doesn't have) to offer the Broncos from a Mile High
Report Article (http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/4/2/5574442/scouting-will-montgomery):


The major red flags for me are his lack of strength and his footwork.
Strength is a huge issue because in everygame I reviewed he was pushed back in
the pocket quite a bit. As far as footwork it causes him to lose the leverage game
when moving laterally to the line of scrimmage and to take bad angles when zone
blocking to the 2nd level.

In my honest opinion he is a downgrade from Manny at C and a downgrade from
Beadles at LG. You are not going to get the same strength from him at C and
you're not going to get the same agility from him at LG.

Rest - http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/4/2/5574442/scouting-will-montgomery
.

Bosco
04-02-2014, 01:04 PM
I'm glad seven isn't our OL coach.

Other than Foster and Clady, Shanahan didn't use high round picks on OL...thus...getting the production he did with the talent he found in the later rounds proves, to me, that he actually was pretty damned good with OL talent. It's easier to pick "right" on high round picks....unless you are Belicheck. He spent a 2nd on Lennie Friedman in 1999 and thirds on Dan Neil and Ryan Harris.

Ravage!!!
04-02-2014, 01:10 PM
He spent a 2nd on Lennie Friedman in 1999 and thirds on Dan Neil and Ryan Harris.

ok.

Ziggy
04-02-2014, 01:10 PM
He spent a 2nd on Lennie Friedman in 1999 and thirds on Dan Neil and Ryan Harris.

Ryan Harris was well worth a 3rd. You can't predict injuries. When healthy he was a good player.

luckyseven
04-02-2014, 01:53 PM
Why else would Franklin post on twitter that he's "pissed" if they're not moving him? He has to be "pissed" about something, right? They clearly told him something that he didn't like enough to lash out about it, then after thinking that saying you're "pissed" with the team might not be the smartest move any player ever made, he removes the comment.

Without Franklin's comments we just have the story leaked by his agent (we know it was leaked by Rosenhaus because Elway was the only other witness and he's not commenting, so clearly the story comes from Rosenhaus's side of the conversation).

But, Franklin essentially confirms the story by getting angry about the proposed move.

And from Franklin's POV you can understand it. THIS is is last year before he enters FA and he's looking for that BIG$$$ contract. Then suddenly he's possibly being shuffled to a new position where he might struggle or even wind up as a backup.

This could cost him MILLIONS of $ in FA whether he stays here in Denver or goes to another team. The difference is the difference between the salary of a starting NFL RT and a backup. Lots and lots. About as much $ as you might make in 25 years or so (if you're an average wage earner in Denver). That's a lot to lose, so he's not happy.

His reaction is to prove everybody wrong by having a great season and then going elsewhere for the big payday. If he does, fine. That doesn't hurt Denver.

I understand your thought process, but there is nothing but drews commentary about the supposed conversation, which he may have embellished to rile up Franklin.

So if he did talk trash to Franklin even without any comments from John more than Franklin needs to step it up next year he got beat badly in the SB.

John is to Classy to talk bad about players in the press, so WHO knows what the real conversation was.

Could have been we are not going to renew contracts until we see what how he plays this coming year. To we are going to make him a backup OG behind Vasquez.

To say for sure what it was, is IMO guessing.

luckyseven
04-02-2014, 01:56 PM
Skipping over arguments about really OLD stuff (Shanahan) I'd say you're right about Montgomery. Even if there's a top center in the draft that doesn't mean a raw rookie can come right in and master Peyton Manning's offense. Think about that for one moment. The center is going to be responsible for checking the line assignments.

You need a veteran at that position, which is why Elway went out and got one. Either Montgomery does what he's expected to, or he doesn't. If not, he's a backup and they need to pick up a veteran G in FA sometime this summer. They could even trade for somebody. It's possible to get a G somewhere. There are always guys at that position who are looking for work, and some are reasonably promising.

Like Montgomery. If he works out, then they can try moving Clark to RT and have him compete with Franklin, or else just try Franklin out at G and see if he can backup and Chris Clark would be a better pass-blocker at RT.

Franklin might wind up not starting this season if they try him out at G, which could be why he's "pissed." Clearly Manny Ramirez is a better LG than Franklin would be.

There is another possibility we draft a top OC move Rameriez to OG and let him make the protection calls until the rookie gets it.

There are so many permutations now with all the signees I think no ones job is for sure, Magzu is going to keep the pressure on.

luckyseven
04-02-2014, 01:57 PM
He spent a 2nd on Lennie Friedman in 1999 and thirds on Dan Neil and Ryan Harris.

Neil was a keeper the other two while starters for awhile neither world beaters.

luckyseven
04-02-2014, 02:00 PM
Ryan Harris was well worth a 3rd. You can't predict injuries. When healthy he was a good player.

Harris had a bad back in college and they knew that or should have, so they rolled the dice.

The point is and should be none of those that were drafted other than Clady a much higher pick IIRC at 12 can play power blocking or be great at pocket pass protect.

Simple Jaded
04-02-2014, 09:12 PM
Lennie. . .Freidman. :banghead:

Bosco
04-02-2014, 09:54 PM
Ryan Harris was well worth a 3rd. You can't predict injuries. When healthy he was a good player.

I was a big fan of Ryan Harris. He was an elite RT for 2008 and the start of 2009. Shame it turned out the way it did for him.


Harris had a bad back in college and they knew that or should have, so they rolled the dice. Two foot injuries are what derailed his career here in Denver. I don't believe the back was ever an issue. Also, he's still playing with the Texans as a backup.

Simple Jaded
04-02-2014, 10:01 PM
Ryan Harris is a free agent.

Dapper Dan
04-02-2014, 10:08 PM
I guess we had better hope Elway isn't listening to Fox about these linemen. Fox is the worst at grading OL. How about that Jeff Otah? How many OL did he draft and then send to other teams? Sheesh. The worst.

Simple Jaded
04-02-2014, 10:20 PM
Jeff Otah was a beast.

Dapper Dan
04-02-2014, 10:23 PM
Jeff Otah was a beast.

What's he doing now?

Simple Jaded
04-02-2014, 10:55 PM
What's he doing now?

Tearin me apart, fillin up my mind and emptyin my heart.

dogfish
04-04-2014, 04:01 PM
I guess we had better hope Elway isn't listening to Fox about these linemen. Fox is the worst at grading OL. How about that Jeff Otah? How many OL did he draft and then send to other teams? Sheesh. The worst.

lol! now you're just making stuff up. . . jordan gross, ryan kahlil and jeff otah were all developed into pro bowl caliber OLs during fox's carolina tenure, and they got some really solid years from travelle wharton at OT as well. . . fox and magazu are among the best at getting the most out of OL talent. . . they've gotten every drop of ability out of guys like chris clark, orlando franklin, manny ramirez and zane beadles-- and made a good guard, vasquez, into an all-pro. . .

CoachChaz
04-04-2014, 04:05 PM
lol! now you're just making stuff up. . . jordan gross, ryan kahlil and jeff otah were all developed into pro bowl caliber OLs during fox's carolina tenure, and they got some really solid years from travelle wharton at OT as well. . . fox and magazu are among the best at getting the most out of OL talent. . . they've gotten every drop of ability out of guys like chris clark, orlando franklin, manny ramirez and zane beadles-- and made a good guard, vasquez, into an all-pro. . .

Didnt Mike Wahle make a Pro-Bowl once as well?

dogfish
04-04-2014, 04:13 PM
Didnt Mike Wahle make a Pro-Bowl once as well?

yep, sure did-- i'm not positive if he made one in carolina, but he was another good OL they had, good call. . . although they don't get credit for development in that case, he was a good vet they signed. . . still got good production out of him, though. . . either way, the point stands-- carolina had consistently good O-line play, when they weren't all hurt. . .

TXBRONC
04-04-2014, 08:03 PM
Tearin me apart, fillin up my mind and emptyin my heart.

Do you need some alone time? :vroam:

Cugel
04-05-2014, 11:09 AM
they've gotten every drop of ability out of guys like chris clark, orlando franklin, manny ramirez and zane beadles-- and made a good guard, vasquez, into an all-pro. . .

Frankly, I think that having Peyton Manning throw the ball in under 2 seconds makes every OL here look like an All-Pro, until they got to the SB where they were totally exposed as inadequate.

Yes they got the most out of Chris Clark and Manny Ramirez.

But, clearly Elway isn't satisfied and he shouldn't be. He's shaking up the OL:

1. Let Beadles go. Didn't even make him an offer. Vote of ZERO confidence.
2. Tried to sign several players and wound up with Montgomery. This gives them the option of starting Montgomery at C and moving Ramirez back to G where he would be a significant upgrade on Beadles.
3. With Ryan Clady coming back to start at LT, move Chris Clark to RT, move Orlando Franklin inside to G and make him a backup (because he's wildly unlikely to start ahead of Ramirez).

As you can see. Elway is upgrading virtually the entire OL. Louis Vasquez is probably the only OL starter from the SB who's going to be playing in his same position starting next season.

Elway saw what the entire country saw: the Seattle D-line just storming in on Manning with only 4 guys, and pushing the Broncos OL right back on every snap. This was the biggest reason the Broncos didn't have a chance in the SB. Their OL got simply dominated right from the start.

And this season the Broncos play three teams in the NFC West with top rated defenses, so Elway is not content to let that happen again if he can prevent it. Why I think Elway's a fricken genius! :beer:

Ravage!!!
04-05-2014, 12:55 PM
You never can sit on your laurels and be pacified to do nothing. Considering the number or injuries we took to the OL, I think they did a fantastic job. Considering the number of injuries our entire TEAM took, the players and coaches did a fantastic job.

broncohead
04-05-2014, 06:27 PM
Saying anyone other than Franklin will start at RT is speculation

Cugel
04-06-2014, 06:22 PM
There is another possibility we draft a top OC move Rameriez to OG and let him make the protection calls until the rookie gets it.

There are so many permutations now with all the signees I think no ones job is for sure, Magzu is going to keep the pressure on.

Oh, I think drafting an OL is a serious possibility if one they like is available. But, to imagine a raw rookie coming in and starting at C in Peyton Manning's offense?

It normally takes an OL a couple of years to get the hang of the play-book, but Manning's silent count, formation shifts, changes at the line of scrimmage, etc? No rookie is going to be able to absorb all that in his first off-season.

You just can't count on a rookie coming in and starting on the Broncos OL no matter how talented he is.

Cugel
04-06-2014, 06:24 PM
Saying anyone other than Franklin will start at RT is speculation

Not anymore. Not since Franklin confirmed that he was "pissed" about the possibility of being moved to a new position where he will have to prove himself.

And also remember that the Broncos are probably not done yet picking up veteran OL. They are going to look over the waiver wire this summer very carefully to see if some G or C they like gets cut or is available in a trade.

topscribe
04-06-2014, 06:28 PM
Not anymore. Not since Franklin confirmed that he was "pissed" about the possibility of being moved to a new position where he will have to prove himself.

And also remember that the Broncos are probably not done yet picking up veteran OL. They are going to look over the waiver wire this summer very carefully to see if some G or C they like gets cut or is available in a trade.
I've fallen out of touch the last couple days, but did Franklin ever reveal specifically why he was upset?
.

Softskull
04-06-2014, 06:58 PM
I've fallen out of touch the last couple days, but did Franklin ever reveal specifically why he was upset?
.

I heard it was because he didn't get a high five.

broncohead
04-06-2014, 07:27 PM
Not anymore. Not since Franklin confirmed that he was "pissed" about the possibility of being moved to a new position where he will have to prove himself.

And also remember that the Broncos are probably not done yet picking up veteran OL. They are going to look over the waiver wire this summer very carefully to see if some G or C they like gets cut or is available in a trade.

He never said why he was pissed. No one on this board knows why he was pissed.

broncohead
04-06-2014, 07:28 PM
I've fallen out of touch the last couple days, but did Franklin ever reveal specifically why he was upset?
.

No he didn't

Cugel
04-06-2014, 09:27 PM
I've fallen out of touch the last couple days, but did Franklin ever reveal specifically why he was upset?
.

He stated later on twitter that position moves are a part of the business and that he can deal with it. That's what he was upset about. He didn't say "that's what I was pissed about" but it is the only thing he mentioned so that still confirms that the potential position change is what he was unhappy about.

The coaching staff indicated that they are considering moving him inside to G.

Rosenhaus confronted Elway about that on behalf of his client. Then the Broncos went out and got Montgomery who will compete for the starting C job. They are probably going to get more OL between now and opening day as well.

Obviously the Broncos are trying to figure out where Clark fits in. Clark did a decent job at starting LT which is harder than RT, but with Clady coming back they either have to move Clark back to backup or else find him another starting spot. Hence the consideration of moving Franklin to G.

Changes are coming on the OL. Franklin is going to have to compete for a starting job either at T or G. I say good.

luckyseven
04-07-2014, 01:35 AM
Oh, I think drafting an OL is a serious possibility if one they like is available. But, to imagine a raw rookie coming in and starting at C in Peyton Manning's offense?

It normally takes an OL a couple of years to get the hang of the play-book, but Manning's silent count, formation shifts, changes at the line of scrimmage, etc? No rookie is going to be able to absorb all that in his first off-season.

You just can't count on a rookie coming in and starting on the Broncos OL no matter how talented he is.


IIRC Rameriez did just that last year. A rookie center who had not played with manning at all and he was not even a high draft choice.

If they take either a OC or OG in the first odds are they will indeed be more talented that Rameriez is.

Ziggy
04-07-2014, 10:32 AM
He never said why he was pissed. No one on this board knows why he was pissed.

Yes, he did. It's here in this interview:

http://www.1043thefan.com/podcasts/Episodes.aspx?PID=1623

Go the the interview on 4/2/14 Hour 2. I believe it's at the bottom of the page this morning. Listen at the 21:10 mark and you can hear from Orlando himself what the tweet was about.

Cugel
04-08-2014, 11:42 AM
IIRC Rameriez did just that last year. A rookie center who had not played with manning at all and he was not even a high draft choice.

If they take either a OC or OG in the first odds are they will indeed be more talented that Rameriez is.

I'm not opposed to their drafting a G or C with their #1 overall pick if someone they like is available. Normally at #31 the top franchise LTs are long gone, along with the impact pass-rushers and elite QB prospects, as well as the best cover CBs. But there should still be some G's or C's or RT prospects at that spot who might be upgrades.

I still think upgrading the OL is the Broncos #1 remaining need after revamping the defense, although they still might want to find another inside LB or CB to play the slot. A RB is also a possibility along with TE.

It all depends on who falls. At #31 your draft is entirely dependent on what other teams do ahead of you. You have to have a fairly large # of prospects on your board because most of them will probably be gone by the time you pick in the first 2 rounds.

Cugel
04-08-2014, 11:49 AM
Yes, he did. It's here in this interview:

http://www.1043thefan.com/podcasts/Episodes.aspx?PID=1623

Go the the interview on 4/2/14 Hour 2. I believe it's at the bottom of the page this morning. Listen at the 21:10 mark and you can hear from Orlando himself what the tweet was about.

I can't figure out why people are resisting this idea. :confused:

What do they think the Broncos want to do with Chris Clark? He played excellently well as a backup filling in at LT, which is a terribly difficult transition. You're normally facing the other team's best pass-rusher every down. LT is an elite position and they pay Clady $10 million a year to play it. Elite LTs are taken in the top 1/2 of the first round -- Clady at #11 overall.

So, do they want to just shove Clark back to backup on the depth chart? Or does he deserve a chance to start? And where? Obviously, if Clady is healthy he moves back into his starting LT spot. Just as obviously, Clark would be capable of moving to the right side and playing RT, but what do you then do with Franklin?

In short, they want to get the best use out of Clark who has played well. And it could easily be that he beats out Franklin to start at RT. In that case Franklin could be moved inside to G. It all makes sense, even if Franklin doesn't like it.

Still, nothing is set in stone and a lot will depend on whether Clady can come back 100% healthy this off-season. If not, then Clark remains at LT for now, and it's unlikely that Franklin will be moved, unless the Broncos acquire another RT somewhere.

Ravage!!!
04-08-2014, 12:37 PM
again, I'm pretty sure that Manning won the Super Bowl with a rookie LT while in Indy.

CoachChaz
04-08-2014, 12:42 PM
I dont think Clark is such an obvious answer at RT. You typically want a strong run blocker in that spot and Clark is NOT a strong run blocker

Cugel
04-08-2014, 01:42 PM
I dont think Clark is such an obvious answer at RT. You typically want a strong run blocker in that spot and Clark is NOT a strong run blocker

Well, it's pretty clear that the Broncos coaching staff do not agree with you. Let's review.

We now know that they are considering moving Franklin inside because he's confirmed it. Well, who would they put in his place? Clark is about the only guy on the roster they could even consider starting at RT.

So, unless they acquire somebody somewhere, what they're considering is moving Clark over to the right side and either having Franklin backup or move inside to G.

I doubt any of this is set in stone yet. After all, Clady is coming off serious knee surgery and who knows when he'll be 100%? Until he is, Clark has to stay at LT. And that could be most of the pre-season.

I mean is there even 1 other OL on the roster they could consider starting at RT instead Franklin?

CoachChaz
04-08-2014, 02:04 PM
Well, it's pretty clear that the Broncos coaching staff do not agree with you. Let's review.

We now know that they are considering moving Franklin inside because he's confirmed it. Well, who would they put in his place? Clark is about the only guy on the roster they could even consider starting at RT.

So, unless they acquire somebody somewhere, what they're considering is moving Clark over to the right side and either having Franklin backup or move inside to G.

I doubt any of this is set in stone yet. After all, Clady is coming off serious knee surgery and who knows when he'll be 100%? Until he is, Clark has to stay at LT. And that could be most of the pre-season.

I mean is there even 1 other OL on the roster they could consider starting at RT instead Franklin?

Until ANY of this actually happens, it's all speculation. I dont run the team, but based on a full season of play...I think it would be a mistake to move Clark to RT. Just my opinion.

Denver Native (Carol)
04-08-2014, 08:15 PM
The contract details on new Broncos center Will Montgomery are in. They suggest Montgomery, who started the three previous seasons with Mike Shanahan’s Washington Redskins, may begin the organized team activities (OTAs) as a backup but with a chance to compete with Manny Ramirez for the starting center position.

Montgomery received a one-year contract with a non-guaranteed $1.2 million salary. Free agents who are signed to start generally get at least $2 million a year.

If Montgomery remains on the Broncos’ roster by Aug. 15, he will receive a $50,000 roster bonus. He would get another $75,000 bonus if he’s on the Broncos’ opening-day 53-man roster. If Montgomery earns the starting job — which could happen if the Broncos move Ramirez to left guard — he could make another $600,000 in incentives. So that would get him close to the $2 million mark.

AND


Here are three Broncos offensive line options, in no particular order:

full article - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2014/04/08/will-montgomery-contract-says-hes-yet-starter/26836/

DenBronx
04-08-2014, 08:16 PM
I would have rather seen us sign Chris Johnson instead of this guy. We could have just drafted depth.

dogfish
04-08-2014, 10:11 PM
Well, it's pretty clear that the Broncos coaching staff do not agree with you. Let's review.

We now know that they are considering moving Franklin inside because he's confirmed it. Well, who would they put in his place? Clark is about the only guy on the roster they could even consider starting at RT.

So, unless they acquire somebody somewhere, what they're considering is moving Clark over to the right side and either having Franklin backup or move inside to G.

I doubt any of this is set in stone yet. After all, Clady is coming off serious knee surgery and who knows when he'll be 100%? Until he is, Clark has to stay at LT. And that could be most of the pre-season.

I mean is there even 1 other OL on the roster they could consider starting at RT instead Franklin?

if only they held a thing called a "draft," where you could acquire new players. . .

Simple Jaded
04-09-2014, 12:43 AM
Franklin is easily the Broncos 3rd best OLman, I wanna see the Broncos OL that he can't earn a starting job on.

Cugel
04-09-2014, 10:14 AM
if only they held a thing called a "draft," where you could acquire new players. . .

The may very well try and draft an OL, but they can't count on getting a starter at RT drafting at #31. All the top T prospects they like might very well be gone at that point, we don't know.

Plus, I don't think they are going to want to start a rookie T for a SB contender with Peyton Manning's complicated offense. I don't think a rookie would beat out Franklin.

Ravage!!!
04-09-2014, 12:23 PM
The may very well try and draft an OL, but they can't count on getting a starter at RT drafting at #31. All the top T prospects they like might very well be gone at that point, we don't know.

Plus, I don't think they are going to want to start a rookie T for a SB contender with Peyton Manning's complicated offense. I don't think a rookie would beat out Franklin.

Again, Peyton won the Super Bowl with a rookie LEFT tackle while in INdy.

CoachChaz
04-09-2014, 12:56 PM
And...there have been plenty of successful rookie guards in the NFL. And whaddayaknow...there will be some good ones available at 31.

Keep Franklin at RT

Cugel
04-11-2014, 09:13 PM
Again, Peyton won the Super Bowl with a rookie LEFT tackle while in INdy.

And Russell Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round and he won the SB, so that proves you can draft a QB in the 3rd round and in his second year he'll win a SB, right?

Actually what it really proves is that your chances are about 1 in 116, which is the # of QBs drafted in the late 2nd round or later since Tom Brady, versus the ONE guy (Wilson) who turned out to be really good.

Yes, it's possible, but nobody with a grain of sense would count on it. And just as I said, it's a lot more probable if you take an OL in the top 1/2 of the first and get lucky and get a guy like Ryan Clady, rather than draft at #31 where you probably don't get a guy who can step right in and start.

And even if he does start, is he going to be a stud in the SB, or are Seattle's DL going to eat him up like a small muffin?

Cugel
04-11-2014, 09:18 PM
And...there have been plenty of successful rookie guards in the NFL. And whaddayaknow...there will be some good ones available at 31.

Keep Franklin at RT

Keep talking to the wind there. Franklin has been weighed in the balance and found wanting.

By John Elway.

The Broncos don't think he's good enough to start at RT and are looking to replace him.

That's why they told him that they're moving him to G. You might as well get used to it.

Shazam!
04-11-2014, 10:56 PM
And...there have been plenty of successful rookie guards in the NFL. And whaddayaknow...there will be some good ones available at 31.

Keep Franklin at RT

Did you watch the Super Bowl?

dogfish
04-12-2014, 12:16 AM
Did you watch the Super Bowl?

i did-- unfortunately. . .

if we replace everyone who played like shit, we'll need a whole new team besides demaryious thomas. . .

i don't mind if they wanna move deebo inside, but that's based on his overall skill set, not one game. . . we'll see what they plan to do once the draft happens. . .

MOtorboat
04-12-2014, 02:21 AM
Did you watch the Super Bowl?

Did you overreact?

Shazam!
04-12-2014, 07:57 AM
Did you watch the Super Bowl?

Did you overreact?

Ask John Elway if he did.

dogfish
04-12-2014, 08:45 AM
Ask John Elway if he did.

john's documented response so far has been to let all the offensive guys walk, and spend a bunch of money on defense. . . clearly, he watched not just the stupid bowl, but the whole season. . .


:defense:

MOtorboat
04-12-2014, 09:35 AM
john's documented response so far has been to let all the offensive guys walk, and spend a bunch of money on defense. . . clearly, he watched not just the stupid bowl, but the whole season. . .


:defense:

And his first response was apparently to go after guards in free agency, not tackles.

Shazam!
04-12-2014, 11:05 AM
Ask John Elway if he did.

john's documented response so far has been to let all the offensive guys walk, and spend a bunch of money on defense. . . clearly, he watched not just the stupid bowl, but the whole season. . .


:defense:

That was not my point. Obviously Denver has many jokes to fill, everyone knows that. But to suggest all was ok with Franklin who got abused in the Game, is silly.

Simple Jaded
04-12-2014, 01:19 PM
To suggest Franklin needs to be replaced because of the Game is also silly.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-12-2014, 01:27 PM
Darryn Colledge was released by Arizona. What do you guys think?

Simple Jaded
04-12-2014, 01:47 PM
Colledge is a ZBS G, imo.

Shazam!
04-12-2014, 02:58 PM
Not replaced outright but moved, I didn't say he should be cut. But after watching him get smoked by Avril like that all day, need better T help there.

Simple Jaded
04-12-2014, 03:52 PM
Not replaced outright but moved, I didn't say he should be cut. But after watching him get smoked by Avril like that all day, need better T help there.

Either, I wanna see Franklin at G as bad as anybody, but I don't see the SB as absolutely defining his career. He's a damn good player at RT but I believe would be exceptional at G.

Iirc Bennett got fat against Clark and Vallos, so it wasn't even Franklin's performance in one game that we hold against him, it was just one player, Avril. He mostly stone walled an even better player in Justin Houston.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-12-2014, 07:54 PM
Colledge is a ZBS G, imo.

Why do you say that? I don't think he's ever played in a zone scheme.

Simple Jaded
04-13-2014, 04:07 AM
Why do you say that? I don't think he's ever played in a zone scheme.

Was drafted by GB, they've run zone for years.

Ziggy
04-13-2014, 10:50 PM
C Will Montgomery signed a one year contract worth $1.325 million with the Denver Broncos on April 2, 2014. The contract contains no guaranteed money. Montgomery can earn up to $125,000 in roster bonuses that are paid out in August and for being on the active roster for one game. He can maximize his contract via incentives that total $600,000. Montgomery's base salary is $1,200,000.

No guaranteed money. Nice move Elway. This makes me think that the signing of Montgomery in no way affects whether or not we draft another guard or center.

tomjonesrocks
04-13-2014, 10:56 PM
Seems shrewd. Read he's a power player miscast in a zone system. Wasn't a Beadles fan so...

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-14-2014, 03:43 PM
Was drafted by GB, they've run zone for years.


Gotcha...well he played in AZ the last few years. I think he's a little more versatile than just being a zone guy.