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View Full Version : Broncos sacrifice riches on offense for sake of fortifying defense



Denver Native (Carol)
03-23-2014, 10:58 AM
If there has been improvement to the Broncos in the past few weeks, it has been not so much through addition as rebalancing.

Yes, the Broncos dropped a high-dive, free-agent splash on their defensive side of the ball. But the overall roster picture shows that while the Broncos added three standout defensive players DeMarcus Ware, Aqib Talib and T.J. Ward they also lost three offensive starters in Eric Decker, Knowshon Moreno and Zane Beadles.

Ware, Talib and Ward will bring $32 million in 2014 salaries to the Broncos' defense this year. Decker and Beadles will make a combined $17.5 million in 2014 with other NFL teams. To get something on one side, the Broncos had to give up from the other.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25401576/broncos-sacrifice-riches-offense-sake-fortifying-defense

atwater27
03-23-2014, 12:02 PM
Good. Just what I wanted them to do.

topscribe
03-23-2014, 12:11 PM
Mike Klis is one of the few reporters for the DP who consistently offers good
articles, and he has some good things to say here. However, I believe his
opinion of the downgrade of the offense is less than accurate.

The departures of Moreno, Beadles, and Decker, he says, weakens the offense.
Really, my only concern is at LG. Not that Beadles was that good -- he wasn't,
IMO. Nonetheless, there is a hole there. It wouldn't surprise me to see Denver
go for Stanford's David Yankey, UCLA's Xavier Su'a-Filo, or Colorado State's
Weston Richburg with their #31.

I don't believe Montee Ball is a downgrade from Moreno, much as I have been
a fan of Moreno's. Ball is a better natural runner. He just needed to get better
at blocking and receiving, which he has. I believe Ball is ready to take the
reins and actually upgrade the starting position. I would dearly love, however,
to see Moreno back because he certainly would be better depth than either
Hillman or C.J. Anderson.

While we bemoan Decker's departure, I believe the Broncos maintained at
least status quo with the addition of Emmanuel Sanders. "Experts" are saying
that Sanders has never achieved more than 700-some-odd receiving yards or
six touchdowns. However, has anyone checked Decker's stats pre-Manning?
Decker may be bigger and stronger, but when encountering tough, physical
defenders, he never seemed to elevate himself beyond whining to the refs.
The mauling he took from the Seahawks reminded me of the old U.S. Marine
scenario: "Thank you , sir. May I have another?" Sanders may not be as big,
but he never seemed to back down from anybody, and he's much quicker
and faster than Decker.

To me, Elway's beefing up the defense while maintaining the talent level of
the offense was a masterpiece. The offense will remain an irresistible force,
while adding Ward, Talib, and Ware and getting Miller, Wolfe, Vickerson,
Harris, and Moore off IR promises a slobber-knocker defense of which we
will be proud.

IMHO.
.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2014, 01:08 PM
I would have rather replaced Welker than Decker, keeping DT and Decker here as a duo for future QBs since Welker will be gone, soon, anyway.

That being said, it's not as important WHILE we have Manning here. So Sanders will be fine for the short term. I agree that Ball is a better runner than Moreno and we haven't lost anything there, and I believe that OG is the easiest positions on the OL to replace.

But the article was right on. The offense will NOT be as good as last season, it just won't. But we have room to "give" in that area. The injuries to our Defense hurt a lot, and adding players as we have, will just boost to the BOOSTED defense we have with healthy bodies (although I don't think Miller will be back at 100% for the year next season).

The draft will be Huge. Not because we have a LOT of holes to fill, but because the "depth" we add in the draft will bolster an already strong team. The rookies can add some SERIOUS weapons (offensively or defensively) without having to RELY on them to be beasts early on.

Cugel
03-23-2014, 01:38 PM
It wasn't the DEFENSE that was the problem in the SB! It was the offense turning the ball over and scoring only 8 points!

There's ZERO chance of winning if you score 8 points. NONE. So, what was the offensive problem? The Seahawks DL got a pass rush in Peyton Manning's face with 4 DL and no blitzing. They pushed LT Chris Clark and RT Orlando Franklin right into Manning and gave him no time at all to throw.

So what have the Broncos done this offseason to shore up the weakness on the OL? Chris Kuper retired and they let Zane Beadles walk and have replaced him with NOTHING!

And what is the proposed solution? Draft a ROOKIE to start at LG on a SB contender?

Does nobody else see how completely idiotic this plan is? Before they went out and blew their entire wad of cash on defensive players, maybe they should have thought about replacing Orlando Franklin at RT, because CLEARLY he can't pass-block worth a damn!

I would have no problem with them letting Beadles go IF they intended to UPGRADE the OL, but NO! They've just got a huge hole! So, if they went out and signed a veteran RT who can pass-block and wanted to move Franklin inside to RG, and then move the rest of their line around to accommodate Ryan Clady when he returns, fine.

But they tried to sign a couple of FAs and totally WHIFFED!

And no, some rookie OL is not going to be able to step right in and make an impact on a SB contender. It will take him a couple of seasons to know what the hell he's doing out there. And Manning doesn't have a couple of seasons. It's now or never. At most he's got 2 more years and then God help the Broncos!

Because the chances of Brock Osweiler winning a SB in a Broncos uniform are somewhere between slim and none. The team went thirteen years between Elway and Manning and that's about what you can expect after Manning (unless like the Colts you just get unbelievably Lucky).

REALITY 101: The Broncos are not going to be able to win a SB the way the Seahawks did - on defense. In fact the Seahawks aren't going to be able to repeat as SB champions unless Russell Wilson starts playing a lot better.

Teams have won with all-time great defenses 4 times since the '85 Bears. The '85-86 Bears, the 2000 Ravens, the 2003 Bucs and now the 2013 Seahawks. That's 4 times in 23 seasons. So, statistically, your chances are about 17%.

And not one of those teams of the past repeated. Without an elite QB you've simply got no chance of a repeat even if you win. The Seahawks may not even win their own division this season. They've got the Cardinals who beat them at home last year and the 49ers who are probably the 2nd best team in the NFL. It wouldn't take much for the 49ers to win that division.

As much as people keep wanting more defense, this team is built around Peyton Manning. They need to concentrate on strengthening their OL and giving him more time to throw.

Dzone
03-23-2014, 01:50 PM
We wont miss Decker or Beadles but we will miss Moreno

MOtorboat
03-23-2014, 02:01 PM
It wasn't the DEFENSE that was the problem in the SB! It was the offense turning the ball over and scoring only 8 points!

There's ZERO chance of winning if you score 8 points. NONE. So, what was the offensive problem? The Seahawks DL got a pass rush in Peyton Manning's face with 4 DL and no blitzing. They pushed LT Chris Clark and RT Orlando Franklin right into Manning and gave him no time at all to throw.

So what have the Broncos done this offseason to shore up the weakness on the OL? Chris Kuper retired and they let Zane Beadles walk and have replaced him with NOTHING!

And what is the proposed solution? Draft a ROOKIE to start at LG on a SB contender?

Does nobody else see how completely idiotic this plan is? Before they went out and blew their entire wad of cash on defensive players, maybe they should have thought about replacing Orlando Franklin at RT, because CLEARLY he can't pass-block worth a damn!

I would have no problem with them letting Beadles go IF they intended to UPGRADE the OL, but NO! They've just got a huge hole! So, if they went out and signed a veteran RT who can pass-block and wanted to move Franklin inside to RG, and then move the rest of their line around to accommodate Ryan Clady when he returns, fine.

But they tried to sign a couple of FAs and totally WHIFFED!

And no, some rookie OL is not going to be able to step right in and make an impact on a SB contender. It will take him a couple of seasons to know what the hell he's doing out there. And Manning doesn't have a couple of seasons. It's now or never. At most he's got 2 more years and then God help the Broncos!

Because the chances of Brock Osweiler winning a SB in a Broncos uniform are somewhere between slim and none. The team went thirteen years between Elway and Manning and that's about what you can expect after Manning (unless like the Colts you just get unbelievably Lucky).

REALITY 101: The Broncos are not going to be able to win a SB the way the Seahawks did - on defense. In fact the Seahawks aren't going to be able to repeat as SB champions unless Russell Wilson starts playing a lot better.

Teams have won with all-time great defenses 4 times since the '85 Bears. The '85-86 Bears, the 2000 Ravens, the 2003 Bucs and now the 2013 Seahawks. That's 4 times in 23 seasons. So, statistically, your chances are about 17%.

And not one of those teams of the past repeated. Without an elite QB you've simply got no chance of a repeat even if you win. The Seahawks may not even win their own division this season. They've got the Cardinals who beat them at home last year and the 49ers who are probably the 2nd best team in the NFL. It wouldn't take much for the 49ers to win that division.

As much as people keep wanting more defense, this team is built around Peyton Manning. They need to concentrate on strengthening their OL and giving him more time to throw.

This is the type of dumb overreaction to one game that I'm glad Elway didn't have.

Cugel
03-23-2014, 02:12 PM
This is the type of dumb overreaction to one game that I'm glad Elway didn't have.

Overreaction?

"Just one game?" What planet are you living on?

Have you missed the fact that Orlando Franklin is not a good pass-blocking RT and never has been? All season long the OL game Manning insufficient time to throw. That's why he threw so many short passes.

But, very few teams have the DL to get consistent pressure in his face without blitzing. If teams blitz him, he will make them pay. But, the Seahawks didn't have to. The Broncos got away with weak OL play all year, made up for by Manning's quickness. But in the SB it finally caught up with them.

On Sportscenter they showed several plays where Decker and D. Thomas got open for what should have been big plays and first downs, but Manning never got them the ball. He had pressure in his face and had to get rid of it in a hurry. Sometimes with devastating consequences.

As for "one game" -- try and put your head in a little deeper there bud! The Broncos play the NFC West this year and there are THREE defenses in that division comparable to Seattle's! The Cardinals argue that their defense is actually better than Seattle's -- and they made an impressive statement to that effect by coming into their house and whipping the Seahawks at home and outplaying the Seattle defense in that game. The 49ers D is comparable and they're getting Aldon Smith back to full strength this season.

So, no. I wouldn't say "it's just one game!" because the Broncos were able to dominate weak defenses in the AFC. It's going to be a lot harder next season when they play the NFC West.

MOtorboat
03-23-2014, 02:19 PM
Overreaction?

"Just one game?" What planet are you living on?

Have you missed the fact that Orlando Franklin is not a good pass-blocking RT and never has been? All season long the OL game Manning insufficient time to throw. That's why he threw so many short passes.

But, very few teams have the DL to get consistent pressure in his face without blitzing. If teams blitz him, he will make them pay. But, the Seahawks didn't have to. The Broncos got away with weak OL play all year, made up for by Manning's quickness. But in the SB it finally caught up with them.

On Sportscenter they showed several plays where Decker and D. Thomas got open for what should have been big plays and first downs, but Manning never got them the ball. He had pressure in his face and had to get rid of it in a hurry. Sometimes with devastating consequences.

As for "one game" -- try and put your head in a little deeper there bud! The Broncos play the NFC West this year and there are THREE defenses in that division comparable to Seattle's! The Cardinals argue that their defense is actually better than Seattle's -- and they made an impressive statement to that effect by coming into their house and whipping the Seahawks at home and outplaying the Seattle defense in that game. The 49ers D is comparable and they're getting Aldon Smith back to full strength this season.

So, no. I wouldn't say "it's just one game!" because the Broncos were able to dominate weak defenses in the AFC. It's going to be a lot harder next season when they play the NFC West.

So, you wanted Denver to sign a right tackle and a left guard and ignore the combination of which defensive position? Cornerback and safety? Safety and pass rusher? Pass rusher and cornerback? Which two did you want ignored to make the best offense in football better?

Because the obvious upgrades at those three positions were markedly more of an improvement upon what we had over what we could have got on the free agent market for offensive lineman. And yes, it looks like there will likely be a rookie starting at left guard. You can't have a veteran free agent at every position because of the salary cap.

The talent level on offense isn't the problem. It's quite obvious that Elway sees it that way too, and he's right. The offense had a bad game in the worst possible place to have it. That's it. Nothing more. We had a shitty defense all season, so fix/bolster that. Trying to overpay a left guard doesn't make the team better.

Cugel
03-23-2014, 02:21 PM
I would have rather replaced Welker than Decker, keeping DT and Decker here as a duo for future QBs since Welker will be gone, soon, anyway.

That being said, it's not as important WHILE we have Manning here. So Sanders will be fine for the short term. I agree that Ball is a better runner than Moreno and we haven't lost anything there, and I believe that OG is the easiest positions on the OL to replace.

But the article was right on. The offense will NOT be as good as last season, it just won't. But we have room to "give" in that area. The injuries to our Defense hurt a lot, and adding players as we have, will just boost to the BOOSTED defense we have with healthy bodies (although I don't think Miller will be back at 100% for the year next season).

The draft will be Huge. Not because we have a LOT of holes to fill, but because the "depth" we add in the draft will bolster an already strong team. The rookies can add some SERIOUS weapons (offensively or defensively) without having to RELY on them to be beasts early on.

Replacing Welker and keeping Decker was never an option. The Broncos just signed Welker. His contract terms:


3/13/2013: Signed a two-year, $12 million contract. The deal is fully guaranteed (http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/den/broncos), including a $4 million signing bonus. Another $150,000 is available through incentives for each year Welker catches 90-plus passes. 2014: $3 million (+ $3 million roster bonus due 3/12), 2015: Free agent

So, the Broncos have guaranteed Welker at least $8 million this season -- including the pro-rated signing bonus, and would have to pay that amount if they cut him or traded him. Not to mention the problem of replacing him.

So, it was never remotely an option.

I won't miss Decker. Let him take his stupid reality show to NY where his idiot wife can continue to try and jump start her worthless singing career some more at his expense. Bubba Caldwell can do fine at his spot.

topscribe
03-23-2014, 02:26 PM
Cug, love ya, man, but, to listen to you, the Broncos will be selecting #1 overall
in the 2015 draft.

First, one of the prime reasons Denver's O-line couldn't hold was because Beadles
was at LG. Another was Clady's absence. This year, Clady will be back, and, from
Elway's performance at GM so far, I am sure he has something in mind for the
position (thankfully) vacated by Beadles. For one, I don't agree with you that a
rookie can't start effectively there. Rookies have done well on the O-line,
especially when surrounded by experienced vets, which would be the case in
Denver. I wouldn't discount the ability of David Yancey, Xavier Su'a-Filo, or
Weston Richburg to start there. And I would still be in favor of at least trying
out Franklin The Road Grader at LG. Clark did a credible job at LT last year,
so I believe he would be at least credible at RT.

As I said earlier, I believe the starting position at RB has been upgraded, and
Decker's old position is at least status quo.

The defense will sport no less than eight (8) different players than the Broncos
fielded in the Super Bowl. That is going to be a NFCW caliber defense, IMO.

But for you to keep referring back to the Seattle game as an indicator of how
the next game will go is not realistic. That will be a different team going into
Seattle this year...a significantly better one, IMO.
.

MOtorboat
03-23-2014, 02:37 PM
The Ravens won with a rookie right tackle.

dogfish
03-23-2014, 02:46 PM
Rabble rabble rabble!!

:mad:



:lol: :lol:

Nomad
03-23-2014, 02:52 PM
I'm glad BRONCOS are shoring up the defense (MIKE and a great CB needed as well), but I will agree with Cugel as well. Manning needs a great oline especially since they're playing the NFC West this year.

Cugel
03-23-2014, 03:11 PM
So, you wanted Denver to sign a right tackle and a left guard and ignore the combination of which defensive position? Cornerback and safety? Safety and pass rusher? Pass rusher and cornerback? Which two did you want ignored to make the best offense in football better?

Because the obvious upgrades at those three positions were markedly more of an improvement upon what we had over what we could have got on the free agent market for offensive lineman. And yes, it looks like there will likely be a rookie starting at left guard. You can't have a veteran free agent at every position because of the salary cap.

The talent level on offense isn't the problem. It's quite obvious that Elway sees it that way too, and he's right. The offense had a bad game in the worst possible place to have it. That's it. Nothing more. We had a shitty defense all season, so fix/bolster that. Trying to overpay a left guard doesn't make the team better.

It ain't a question of either offense or defense. The Broncos made a big splash with a lot of big-names when they would have probably been better off paying less money to more modest FAs, including, YES, a RT or veteran G.

I wouldn't have bothered to sign Aquib Talib. Is he really that much of an upgrade on DRC? I think not and here's rotoworld's assessment:


Giants agreed to terms with CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie on a five-year, $39 million contract. A source tells ProFootballTalk that free agent CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie turned down a six-year, $54 million offer from the Broncos. The offer was made prior to the Broncos reached out to Darrelle Revis and Aqib Talib. . . . .Still only 28 (in April), Rodgers-Cromartie was a borderline shutdown corner in Denver last season, intercepting three passes and allowing just one touchdown over the Broncos' final 14 games. He'll bookend Prince Amukamara as the Giants' starting corners. Expect Thurmond to cover the slot on passing downs. These are major upgrades to the back end of Big Blue's defense.

Sounds like DRC gave up a bunch of money right to sign in NY, right? Wrong.

Most of that Broncos money was in the "you're never going to see this if we ever get to year 6" category. Only guaranteed money means anything in the NFL. The Giants offered more cash up front. Frankly, the Broncos could have signed both Talib and DRC if they were really serious about upgrading their secondary.

It would have cost Pat Bowlen a lot of up-front cash, but not a lot more overall. He was just being cheap as usual.

Result:

Chris Harris suffered a serious ACL tear late in the season. He will be lucky to be back to his old form at all next year and could miss significant playing time. Talib is a top 5 CB but who plays opposite him? And who takes over Harris's slot inside?

You need FOUR starter quality CBs to be great in this league -- 3 starters and one veteran backup. Last year the Broncos had Champ Bailey. Now he's gone too. And, once again they've replaced him with nobody. So the Broncos needed both DRC and Talib as their starters, and could then move Harris into the lineup at his natural spot nickel CB and backup in case of injury when he's completely healthy.

No-one would argue the Broncos should have paid Bailey anything like his $10 million for 2014. But could they not have at least offered him something like $2 million to move inside and play safety. He might have refused, but they didn't even try. Now he's going elsewhere, but nobody's going to pay him a lot of $ to make him the oldest starting CB in the NFL. Not after the last 2 seasons. He might still have been useful.

So, landing Talib and losing DRC is pretty much a wash. He's a bit better defender against the run, but overall it's not going to have a tremendous net impact. And he's costing them $26M guaranteed over the next 6 yrs.


3/11/2014: Signed a six-year, $57 million contract. The deal contains $26 million guaranteed, including a $5 million signing bonus and first-year roster bonus of $2 million. Another $1.5 million is available through playing-time incentives. 2014: $4.5 million (+ $500,000 in per-game roster bonuses), 2015: $5.5 million (+ $500,000 in per-game roster bonuses), 2016: $8.5 million (+ $500,000 in per-game roster bonuses), 2017-2018: $11 million, 2019: $8 million, 2020: Free Agent


The Giants got DRC for about 1/2 as much guaranteed money.

Similarly, they signed DeMarcus Ware, but he's 32 and coming off an injury plagued season. Hopefully, he'll be the beast of a player he was a few years ago. But at $20 guaranteed for the next 2 seasons that's rather a gamble. Meanwhile they let Shaun Phillips and Robert Ayers walk. Neither is remotely in Ware's class if he's healthy but they might have tried to keep Phillips at least.

Plus, they have to remember that this is the last year on Von Miller's 4 year $21M guaranteed contract so they need to figure out his future as well. Cause he's going to cost somebody a boodle next season.

A lot of churning but it doesn't look like a ton of progress to me.

The best move so far this off-season seems to be the T.J. Ward signing:


Broncos agreed to terms with SS T.J. Ward, formerly of the Browns, on a four-year, $23 million contract. The $5.75 million annual average is far less than Ward was expected to get, but he does land $14 million guaranteed. Ward is reunited with ex-Browns GM Tom Heckert, who drafted Ward with the 38th pick in the 2010 draft. Ward will take over for SS Duke Ihenacho in Denver. An already elite Broncos run defense gets stronger.

That's more of the kind of move I expected the Broncos to make this off-season.

1. Sign a veteran hard-hitting SS. Got Ward. Best off-season move. And he wasn't too expensive either.
2. Sign a veteran replacement for RT Orlando Franklin and either trade him, release him or move him to G. Nothing there.
3. Sign a backup S in case neither Carter returns to play well in 2014. No guarantees when a player is coming off a season on the DL.
4. Sign another top elite CB because Champ is gone and Chris Harris may struggle coming of ACL surgery. Got Talib but lost DRC so that's not much of a gain. And Talib cost a LOT more.
5. Re-sign or replace Beadles at G. Failed to get anybody there -- and NO a rookie draft pick doesn't count!
6. Replace Moreno with somebody at RB -- Done in my opinion. Montee Ball can take his place and they can draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round if one they like is there.

Lost Robert Ayers and Shaun Phillips of a DL that was none too strong to begin with outside the surprising Pot-Roast. If DeMarcus Ware has the impact he's expected to have, then great. Don't let the door hit you on your way out of town there Shaun. But, it wouldn't have hurt to have held onto him. Broncos don't have a lot of rotation depth at DE and they lost some more. Once again Broncos putting all their money into one big-name FA who's coming off elbow surgery and was playing on basically 1 leg all last year and whose production has been declining for several years now.

What Ware are we going to get? Because if he's totally healthy and back to the player he was 3 years ago, then great. But, if not, he's a HUGE $ drain for not a lot of production and they would have been better served getting several players instead of paying it all to him.

Bonus Feature: They do get Kevin Vickerson back at T next year so that's a big plus. He does well with Pot-Roast.

MOtorboat
03-23-2014, 03:19 PM
Well, I don't know what to tell you. Elway seems to disagree with a lot of your assessments.

OrangeHoof
03-23-2014, 03:26 PM
We have Sanders to replace Decker and we have Ball to take up the slack for Moreno (though I would appreciate a mid-round RB in the draft for depth). We've got the bodies to replace Beadles (although I'd love to draft Yankey or Sua-Filo at #31). So, I don't see a drop-off on offense.

OTOH, we just made the defense more capable of shutting down a good offense. I'd prefer to see some help at CB and MLB in the draft but we have some solid building blocks to start with everywhere else.

It's been an excellent off-season. Yes, the defense was not to blame for the SB loss, that's on the offense. But we also clearly needed to upgrade the defense and simply keep as productive on offense. The schedule will be tougher but the roster we are putting together will be better, not worse, than 2013.

King87
03-23-2014, 03:38 PM
Denver defense didn't want the game,but they didn't have the horses to go out there and win a game for Denver. As it stands right now, your defense looks like it has that ability. You guys signed a top five corner and a top three strong safety. Ware is still capable of ten plus sacks, too.

DenBronx
03-23-2014, 04:50 PM
Deckers reality show had no harm on his NFL career. NONE! He was able to have his own show yet still produce in the NFL at a very high level.


Sounds like some of you guys are just jealous of his life.

Jsteve01
03-23-2014, 05:40 PM
Orlando Franklin had a bad day during the big game, and I as many overreacted, but for you to state he's not nor will he ever be a good pass blocking tackle is hyperbole at it's finest. Franklin was PFF's highest rated right tackle in the category of....wait for it....pass blocking yes. Orlando Franklin

luckyseven
03-23-2014, 05:43 PM
Good. Just what I wanted them to do.

before the offense was paid slightly more than twice the dollars than those on defense.

Even though almost all of those players that left were still on rookie contracts.

Jsteve01
03-23-2014, 05:44 PM
Right tackle Orlando Franklin is often mentioned as a future guard, but he lead all offensive tackles in Pass Blocking Efficiency last season, even when factoring in his subpar Super Bowl performance.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/03/10/2014-team-needs-denver-broncos/

dogfish
03-23-2014, 06:53 PM
Orlando Franklin had a bad day during the big game, and I as many overreacted, but for you to state he's not nor will he ever be a good pass blocking tackle is hyperbole at it's finest. Franklin was PFF's highest rated right tackle in the category of....wait for it....pass blocking yes. Orlando Franklin

no. . .

he got beat in the super bowl, so obviously, we need to replace him with someone who can't be beat. . . i'd expect you to understand these things, steve. . .

:coffee:

King87
03-23-2014, 07:35 PM
no. . .

he got beat in the super bowl, so obviously, we need to replace him with someone who can't be beat. . . i'd expect you to understand these things, steve. . .

:coffee:

Just go get Anthony Munoz or Walter Jones in their primes via time machine, sounds great.

BroncoWave
03-23-2014, 07:39 PM
Just go get Anthony Munoz or Walter Jones in their primes via time machine, sounds great.

Whatever team invents the time machine first is going to have a serious competitive advantage.

dogfish
03-23-2014, 07:39 PM
Just go get Anthony Munoz or Walter Jones in their primes via time machine, sounds great.

hot tub time machine-- that's the only way my ass is travelin' through time. . .

King87
03-23-2014, 08:35 PM
hot tub time machine-- that's the only way my ass is travelin' through time. . .

Go get Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, and Willie Anderson, too.

Jaded
03-23-2014, 08:36 PM
I expect Decker's production to come from Sanders and Welker, leaving LG as (literally) the only hole in the starting lineup. I always say "careful what you wish for" but I don't think Beadles will be hard to replace, not hard to find G's that don't fit the scheme, it's actually improving at LG that is the key.

At the risk of pissing off the likes of Joel, the offense didn't play anywhere near as good in the SB as they're capable of playing. Ridiculous how it took the offense 18 weeks to build a solid reputation and only one game to get "exposed", yet the defense generally sucked for 18 weeks and has earned a solid reputation.

TXBRONC
03-23-2014, 10:50 PM
It wasn't the DEFENSE that was the problem in the SB! It was the offense turning the ball over and scoring only 8 points!

There's ZERO chance of winning if you score 8 points. NONE. So, what was the offensive problem? The Seahawks DL got a pass rush in Peyton Manning's face with 4 DL and no blitzing. They pushed LT Chris Clark and RT Orlando Franklin right into Manning and gave him no time at all to throw.

So what have the Broncos done this offseason to shore up the weakness on the OL? Chris Kuper retired and they let Zane Beadles walk and have replaced him with NOTHING!

And what is the proposed solution? Draft a ROOKIE to start at LG on a SB contender?

Does nobody else see how completely idiotic this plan is? Before they went out and blew their entire wad of cash on defensive players, maybe they should have thought about replacing Orlando Franklin at RT, because CLEARLY he can't pass-block worth a damn!

I would have no problem with them letting Beadles go IF they intended to UPGRADE the OL, but NO! They've just got a huge hole! So, if they went out and signed a veteran RT who can pass-block and wanted to move Franklin inside to RG, and then move the rest of their line around to accommodate Ryan Clady when he returns, fine.

But they tried to sign a couple of FAs and totally WHIFFED!

And no, some rookie OL is not going to be able to step right in and make an impact on a SB contender. It will take him a couple of seasons to know what the hell he's doing out there. And Manning doesn't have a couple of seasons. It's now or never. At most he's got 2 more years and then God help the Broncos!

Because the chances of Brock Osweiler winning a SB in a Broncos uniform are somewhere between slim and none. The team went thirteen years between Elway and Manning and that's about what you can expect after Manning (unless like the Colts you just get unbelievably Lucky).

REALITY 101: The Broncos are not going to be able to win a SB the way the Seahawks did - on defense. In fact the Seahawks aren't going to be able to repeat as SB champions unless Russell Wilson starts playing a lot better.

Teams have won with all-time great defenses 4 times since the '85 Bears. The '85-86 Bears, the 2000 Ravens, the 2003 Bucs and now the 2013 Seahawks. That's 4 times in 23 seasons. So, statistically, your chances are about 17%.

And not one of those teams of the past repeated. Without an elite QB you've simply got no chance of a repeat even if you win. The Seahawks may not even win their own division this season. They've got the Cardinals who beat them at home last year and the 49ers who are probably the 2nd best team in the NFL. It wouldn't take much for the 49ers to win that division.

As much as people keep wanting more defense, this team is built around Peyton Manning. They need to concentrate on strengthening their OL and giving him more time to throw.

No I don't see it as idiotic plan. John Elway knows what he's doing.

Reality 101 is not to get sucked into gloom and doom hyperbole.

LRtagger
03-24-2014, 08:33 AM
But, very few teams have the DL to get consistent pressure in his face without blitzing. If teams blitz him, he will make them pay. But, the Seahawks didn't have to.

As for "one game" -- try and put your head in a little deeper there bud! The Broncos play the NFC West this year and there are THREE defenses in that division comparable to Seattle's! The Cardinals argue that their defense is actually better than Seattle's -- and they made an impressive statement to that effect by coming into their house and whipping the Seahawks at home and outplaying the Seattle defense in that game. The 49ers D is comparable and they're getting Aldon Smith back to full strength this season.

So, no. I wouldn't say "it's just one game!" because the Broncos were able to dominate weak defenses in the AFC. It's going to be a lot harder next season when they play the NFC West.

This is exactly why they invested heavily in Defense.

Instead of "we need to make the best offense in league history even better", why not say "we need to build a physical and aggressive defense that can compete with the other elite defenses in the league and pair it with an already elite offense"?

Northman
03-24-2014, 08:48 AM
I would have rather replaced Welker than Decker,

Same here, however Deck's contract is pretty pricey and unfortunately we only have so much room to work with. But yea, i would of rathered kept Deck over Welker in a heartbeat but you just have to deal with what you can at this point.

Northman
03-24-2014, 08:50 AM
Overreaction?

It's going to be a lot harder next season when they play the NFC West.

Its also going to be a lot harder for teams to score on our defense.

Dzone
03-24-2014, 10:24 AM
Lots of money spent on FAs, but Fox still hasnt got the new contract. Would he ever be replaced by Del Rio, as this article suggests?
http://milehighsports.com/2014/03/24/john-fox-continues-to-twist-in-the-wind/

CoachChaz
03-24-2014, 11:21 AM
PFF also has Larry Warford rated as the #4 guard in the NFL. He allowed 0 sacks and had a 98% pass blocker rating...

...but since he was a rookie, I guess it doesn't count since rookie guards are useless.

Ravage!!!
03-24-2014, 01:03 PM
I won't miss Decker. Let him take his stupid reality show to NY where his idiot wife can continue to try and jump start her worthless singing career some more at his expense. Bubba Caldwell can do fine at his spot.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Bubba Caldwell?????? Seriously? Dude, you need to release the hate you have for Decker (for whatever odd reason it may be) and realize that its absolutely clouding your vision.

Ravage!!!
03-24-2014, 01:05 PM
The Ravens won with a rookie right tackle.

Hell, the indianapolis colts won with a rookie left tackle.

luckyseven
03-24-2014, 01:20 PM
Lots of money spent on FAs, but Fox still hasnt got the new contract. Would he ever be replaced by Del Rio, as this article suggests?
http://milehighsports.com/2014/03/24/john-fox-continues-to-twist-in-the-wind/

Let's hope to hell JDR is not the replacement. Especially after his showing last year.

Was slow on game day decisions. Some of them that were made were less than wise.

I believe that Fox is way to conservative, while he has become less so because he trusts Manning.
I do not see JDR as an improvement.

If we Are not going to renew Fox then we need to look out side.

Fox is extremely well liked by the players. Until someone better comes along they will keep him.

Ravage!!!
03-24-2014, 01:24 PM
Seems we were doing a LOT of bragging on JDR before all the injuries hit out defense. I was VERY VERY impressed with how stout our defense was looking early on and even in the Super Bowl they played outstanding. Although I agree that I don't really want him as our HC (just as I didn't want Kubiak).... I think he's been an outstanding DC.

As far as Fox.. I think he's done an OUTSTANDING job as an OC and didn't see this "too conservative" BS that seems to be the new flavor of the offseason to throw around.

MOtorboat
03-24-2014, 01:43 PM
Seems we were doing a LOT of bragging on JDR before all the injuries hit out defense. I was VERY VERY impressed with how stout our defense was looking early on and even in the Super Bowl they played outstanding. Although I agree that I don't really want him as our HC (just as I didn't want Kubiak).... I think he's been an outstanding DC.

As far as Fox.. I think he's done an OUTSTANDING job as an OC and didn't see this "too conservative" BS that seems to be the new flavor of the offseason to throw around.

You mean Gase?

Denver Native (Carol)
03-24-2014, 01:53 PM
Wanted to throw the following in this thread:

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey 13m

.@markschlereth says Left Guard is "the best place for Orlando Franklin"

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey 2h

"Demarcus will be given the same flexibility [as Von Miller as a pass-rusher]." Fox says We'll see Ware in 2pt or 3pt stance pre-snap

Denver Native (Carol)
03-24-2014, 02:01 PM
Lots of money spent on FAs, but Fox still hasnt got the new contract. Would he ever be replaced by Del Rio, as this article suggests?
http://milehighsports.com/2014/03/24/john-fox-continues-to-twist-in-the-wind/

Jeff Legwold ‏@Jeff_Legwold 1h

John Elway said at #NFL meetings today talks for a contract extension for John Fox are "next on the agenda'' for him/team

Ravage!!!
03-24-2014, 02:31 PM
You mean Gase?

No. I typed out OC instead of HC. Was just a typo.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-24-2014, 02:54 PM
Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey 7m

@mark_mac18 that means CB and WR are options for them in the 1st, they won't take them off since they signed Talib/Sanders

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey 37m

.@MikeKlis says "#Broncos won't take CB or WR off their 1st round list...[and Klis says] I don't think they'll go DL" @CJandLesShow

luckyseven
03-24-2014, 03:31 PM
Jeff Legwold ‏@Jeff_Legwold 1h

John Elway said at #NFL meetings today talks for a contract extension for John Fox are "next on the agenda'' for him/team

Which will put this crap to bed.

topscribe
03-24-2014, 04:52 PM
Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey 7m

@mark_mac18 that means CB and WR are options for them in the 1st, they won't take them off since they signed Talib/Sanders

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey 37m

.@MikeKlis says "#Broncos won't take CB or WR off their 1st round list...[and Klis says] I don't think they'll go DL" @CJandLesShow
Sounds like OL or LB . . .
.

underrated29
03-24-2014, 05:34 PM
It wasn't the DEFENSE that was the problem in the SB! It was the offense turning the ball over and scoring only 8 points!

There's ZERO chance of winning if you score 8 points. NONE. So, what was the offensive problem? The Seahawks DL got a pass rush in Peyton Manning's face with 4 DL and no blitzing. They pushed LT Chris Clark and RT Orlando Franklin right into Manning and gave him no time at all to throw.

So what have the Broncos done this offseason to shore up the weakness on the OL? Chris Kuper retired and they let Zane Beadles walk and have replaced him with NOTHING!

And what is the proposed solution? Draft a ROOKIE to start at LG on a SB contender?

Does nobody else see how completely idiotic this plan is? Before they went out and blew their entire wad of cash on defensive players, maybe they should have thought about replacing Orlando Franklin at RT, because CLEARLY he can't pass-block worth a damn!

I would have no problem with them letting Beadles go IF they intended to UPGRADE the OL, but NO! They've just got a huge hole! So, if they went out and signed a veteran RT who can pass-block and wanted to move Franklin inside to RG, and then move the rest of their line around to accommodate Ryan Clady when he returns, fine.

But they tried to sign a couple of FAs and totally WHIFFED!

And no, some rookie OL is not going to be able to step right in and make an impact on a SB contender. It will take him a couple of seasons to know what the hell he's doing out there. And Manning doesn't have a couple of seasons. It's now or never. At most he's got 2 more years and then God help the Broncos!

Because the chances of Brock Osweiler winning a SB in a Broncos uniform are somewhere between slim and none. The team went thirteen years between Elway and Manning and that's about what you can expect after Manning (unless like the Colts you just get unbelievably Lucky).

REALITY 101: The Broncos are not going to be able to win a SB the way the Seahawks did - on defense. In fact the Seahawks aren't going to be able to repeat as SB champions unless Russell Wilson starts playing a lot better.

Teams have won with all-time great defenses 4 times since the '85 Bears. The '85-86 Bears, the 2000 Ravens, the 2003 Bucs and now the 2013 Seahawks. That's 4 times in 23 seasons. So, statistically, your chances are about 17%.

And not one of those teams of the past repeated. Without an elite QB you've simply got no chance of a repeat even if you win. The Seahawks may not even win their own division this season. They've got the Cardinals who beat them at home last year and the 49ers who are probably the 2nd best team in the NFL. It wouldn't take much for the 49ers to win that division.

As much as people keep wanting more defense, this team is built around Peyton Manning. They need to concentrate on strengthening their OL and giving him more time to throw.






What a terrible assessment cuges.

Yes, you nailed the part where manning had no time to throw in the SB.. You got that right but thats about it.


Franklin didnt suck all year. He sucked that game, you know why? Because we had Clark at LT and we slid most of the protection over to clark because he was getting worked over hardcore. Franklin was on an island because beadles and clark were not getting it done. Franklin is still a very good RT....

Let us not forget we still have Vinston Painter a guy the FO is very very high on. He can come in a play something for us.


Umm- do you know who cooper is? Larry Warford? Pick a Pouncey- I dont care which? David Decastro? You know- Rookie OL who came in and dominated......So. No. A rookie can and will start and be successful.
So concentrating on manning and giving him time means one of these three things:

Franklin moves to LG and Painter/clark takes over RT (clady, franklin, manram, vas, painter/clark)
Painter moves into LG and same line as last year (clady, painter, manram, vas, franklin)
We draft a LG (we have looked at a bunch already) like Xavier Sia Filo, Gabe Watson, Dakota Dozier and boomshakalaka (clady,rook,manram,vas,franklin)




Beadles has always been a liability in pass pro and run game. We sucked running to the left for several years. Right side we have done much better. So take in beadles weakness and clark filling in for clady and its a lot harder. Bring back a top 5 LT in clady and plug in a big mauler and manning can now set his alarm clack at 7 seconds- regardless if its AZ, Sea, Niners etc.




And for the record- how many defensive touchdowns (not ST) did the hawks score against us? I honestly do not know. I know there was the knowshon pick 6...was there another?
The entire team blew their wad against NE and played like they had the game in the bag.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-24-2014, 05:36 PM
One darkhorse possibility to replace Zane Beadles at left guard: Ben Garland.

The former Air Force Academy defensive tackle has been on the Broncos' practice squad the past two years. Last season he switched from defensive tackle to offensive guard, where he received a season's worth of tutoring from offensive line consultant Alex Gibbs.

"He's got that mentality you want," Elway said of Garland. "He's tough, he's strong and he's smart. Obviously, he's very inexperienced, but he's got a chance to come in and compete."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25409664/john-elway-simplifies-broncos-goal-2014-were-chasing

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-24-2014, 06:01 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25409664/john-elway-simplifies-broncos-goal-2014-were-chasing

Wouldn't that be a feel good story?

Jaded
03-24-2014, 11:50 PM
The Denver Broncos and their hard-on for "character guys". :rolleyes:

luckyseven
03-25-2014, 12:03 AM
The Denver Broncos and their hard-on for "character guys". :rolleyes:

would you rather have NON character guys. How about Incognito as a starter?

John Elway is strong on leaders and character.

I suspect it was because he played with low lifes when he was playing, he saw what kind of problems they caused.

I'd rather have a strong player with a bit less skill, than 22 different egos trying to run the team.

Jaded
03-25-2014, 12:25 AM
would you rather have NON character guys. How about Incognito as a starter?

John Elway is strong on leaders and character.

I suspect it was because he played with low lifes when he was playing, he saw what kind of problems they caused.

I'd rather have a strong player with a bit less skill, than 22 different egos trying to run the team.

I'll take the better player. There is no starter at LG atm, so for Garland to be a dark horse they'd have to have already pegged him as an option, otherwise they'd have no choice but to fill the position some other way, this would qualify as sheer lunacy.

When the season rolls around dude will not have played a meaningful game in over 4 years at a position he's never played before.

luckyseven
03-25-2014, 12:33 AM
I'll take the better player. There is no starter at LG atm, so for Garland to be a dark horse they'd have to have already pegged him as an option, otherwise they'd have no choice but to fill the position some other way, this would qualify as sheer lunacy.

When the season rolls around dude will not have played a meaningful game in over 4 years at a position he's never played before.

Ok I undersatnd what you are saying..

My comment was I'd always take a guy with a little less skill (not inferring Garland had a bit less ) than I would take say an Incognito.

Garlnd is a feel good story I;d love to see him make good in the NFL, but not at the expense of passing on a first round OG. Would love for him to be quality deth IF he gets it?


But then years ago we took a TE that never played OT in college and made him our starting OLT after he was instructed by Gibbs.


SO who knows what Garland has under his superman cape?

dogfish
03-25-2014, 12:37 AM
The Denver Broncos and their hard-on for "character guys". :rolleyes:

what, talib isn't low-character enough for ya?

:noidea:

Jaded
03-25-2014, 12:42 AM
what, talib isn't low-character enough for ya?

:noidea:

Yes, moar please.

Ravage!!!
03-25-2014, 11:04 AM
Yeah.. give me the talent over the character, I'll all for that as well. But if eerything else is equal, then of course I would much rather have the player with the good character. But if there is a significant difference in quality of play, players are the ones that win games.

underrated29
03-25-2014, 11:19 AM
Then I would like to introduce you guys to Xavier Sia Filo. Super Talented and on the field he is a Punk ass biotch, who is one shade of anger shy of pulling a marcus vick and stomping on peoples throats he has just pancaked. Off the field he is a good ol' mormon boy who likes to spend his leisure time reading romance novels, staying fit, gardening, community service jobs, long walks on the beach, basking in scented oils and incense and pondering the term team player and leader.

he has all the low level characteristics of Aqib Talib, Ryan Leaf, travis henry and richie incognito on the field. As well as all the team player and good boy characteristics of Elway, the 30 year old virgin the broncos used to have, Mother Theresa and a Mary who had a little lamb.

LRtagger
03-25-2014, 12:00 PM
Then I would like to introduce you guys to Xavier Sia Filo. Super Talented and on the field he is a Punk ass biotch, who is one shade of anger shy of pulling a marcus vick and stomping on peoples throats he has just pancaked. Off the field he is a good ol' mormon boy who likes to spend his leisure time reading romance novels, staying fit, gardening, community service jobs, long walks on the beach, basking in scented oils and incense and pondering the term team player and leader.

he has all the low level characteristics of Aqib Talib, Ryan Leaf, travis henry and richie incognito on the field. As well as all the team player and good boy characteristics of Elway, the 30 year old virgin the broncos used to have, Mother Theresa and a Mary who had a little lamb.

Yea he's a stud but I think he will be off the board by 31.

underrated29
03-25-2014, 12:44 PM
me too

Ravage!!!
03-25-2014, 12:48 PM
I"ve seen him projected as a 2-3 rounder.

LRtagger
03-26-2014, 12:08 PM
I think his stock is climbing. And I also think there will be a run at Olineman to close out the first round.

TXBRONC
03-26-2014, 12:12 PM
I think his stock is climbing. And I also think there will be a run at Olineman to close out the first round.

So you think Denver will take an offensive lineman in the first round?

LRtagger
03-26-2014, 12:17 PM
So you think Denver will take an offensive lineman in the first round?

No, I dont necessarily think that. But I do think right around the Ravens or Dolphins picks you may see 4-5 lineman come off the board before our pick. I think it actually bodes well for us that a top prospect might drop a bit. Maybe Mosley or Roby.

CoachChaz
03-26-2014, 12:46 PM
Zack Martin

underrated29
03-26-2014, 12:47 PM
Zack Martin



Is he the C?

underrated29
03-26-2014, 12:48 PM
I do not like the idea of Manram at Guard. IMO he struggled there pretty well the few times he has filled in. I do however, LOVE him at Center...Aside from one or two bad exchanges (which happen to every C/QB) and the opening superbowl snap...I thought he was one of the better C out there.

CoachChaz
03-26-2014, 12:51 PM
Is he the C?

He played tackle at ND, but he'll be a guard in the NFL. Lokked very good there at the Senior Bowl. I expect Yankey and Sua Filo to be off the board by the time we pick and Martin would be my choice after them. A lot of people compare him to Logan Mankins. Hard to turn something like that down at a position of need.

underrated29
03-26-2014, 12:53 PM
He played tackle at ND, but he'll be a guard in the NFL. Lokked very good there at the Senior Bowl. I expect Yankey and Sua Filo to be off the board by the time we pick and Martin would be my choice after them. A lot of people compare him to Logan Mankins. Hard to turn something like that down at a position of need.


ill have to give him a look then. I like x and gabe better than yankey. But this guy may be better. Gabe, imo does not pull very well and could be more agressive, but he rarely gets pushed back and does not get beat.

CoachChaz
03-26-2014, 12:58 PM
ill have to give him a look then. I like x and gabe better than yankey. But this guy may be better. Gabe, imo does not pull very well and could be more agressive, but he rarely gets pushed back and does not get beat.

You'll have to look at senior bowl stuff if you want to see him at guard. He was a tackle that didnt move well...which could translate into a guard that does move well. I like his technique and he should be a damn good player

luckyseven
03-26-2014, 05:13 PM
I do not like the idea of Manram at Guard. IMO he struggled there pretty well the few times he has filled in. I do however, LOVE him at Center...Aside from one or two bad exchanges (which happen to every C/QB) and the opening superbowl snap...I thought he was one of the better C out there.

when did he play OG?

which players were around him?

aging at best OC's and a rookie ORG for the most part.

when you have to take up slack of players on each side of you it is hard to be great.

I'd rather have a top rated OC as they are hard to come by OGs are real deep in the draft.

underrated29
03-26-2014, 05:24 PM
when did he play OG?

which players were around him?

aging at best OC's and a rookie ORG for the most part.

when you have to take up slack of players on each side of you it is hard to be great.

I'd rather have a top rated OC as they are hard to come by OGs are real deep in the draft.



He played OG for us the year Kuper went out...aka two years ago.

He played with clady, beadles, walton, franklin.

I have no clue what you said here so.....potato

I do not think he had to pick up slack for players on either side of him. This is also evident and proven when kuper was in the lineup (before he got hurt and after- aside from the ravens game)...Look at the pressures allowed, sacks, and run blocking.

Is the Colorado guy, the best C in this draft, heads and shoulders above manrams play at center- VS- the LG we may draft vs beadles who is gone, manram at LG or whoever we choose to line up there? IMO- the difference between the best C in this draft and manram is likely not more than the LG at all, if any.


I would like to add, I fully expect us to add a C or two in this draft. Likely another as a UFDA.

luckyseven
03-26-2014, 05:39 PM
He played OG for us the year Kuper went out...aka two years ago.

He played with clady, beadles, walton, franklin.

I have no clue what you said here so.....potato

I do not think he had to pick up slack for players on either side of him. This is also evident and proven when kuper was in the lineup (before he got hurt and after- aside from the ravens game)...Look at the pressures allowed, sacks, and run blocking.

Is the Colorado guy, the best C in this draft, heads and shoulders above manrams play at center- VS- the LG we may draft vs beadles who is gone, manram at LG or whoever we choose to line up there? IMO- the difference between the best C in this draft and manram is likely not more than the LG at all, if any.


I would like to add, I fully expect us to add a C or two in this draft. Likely another as a UFDA.

Pretty sure it was with Koppen and his relief but not worth worrying about.

Get the best OC in the draft and he anchors your OL for maybe more than a decade.

If you watched the SB game man ram was being pushed back into Mannings Pocket he had NO where to step up and make a pass. there was DL guys draped all over him most of the game. that is what I saw in the game.

If the hawks do it it is a matter of time before everyone in the NFCW does it.

OGs are deep can get a really good one in round 3 maybe 4. OCs only 2 or 3 worth drafting. the kid from CSU is supposed to be in the top 2.

We had Nails for how long? once you get a great one you keep them. Ramirez is 31 this year. not many more seasons on that body.

MOtorboat
03-26-2014, 05:43 PM
He played OG for us the year Kuper went out...aka two years ago.

He played with clady, beadles, walton, franklin.

I have no clue what you said here so.....potato

I do not think he had to pick up slack for players on either side of him. This is also evident and proven when kuper was in the lineup (before he got hurt and after- aside from the ravens game)...Look at the pressures allowed, sacks, and run blocking.

Is the Colorado guy, the best C in this draft, heads and shoulders above manrams play at center- VS- the LG we may draft vs beadles who is gone, manram at LG or whoever we choose to line up there? IMO- the difference between the best C in this draft and manram is likely not more than the LG at all, if any.


I would like to add, I fully expect us to add a C or two in this draft. Likely another as a UFDA.

I think you mean Colorado State? Marcus Martin is probably the best center, from USC.

TXBRONC
03-26-2014, 06:05 PM
Pretty sure it was with Koppen and his relief but not worth worrying about.

Get the best OC in the draft and he anchors your OL for maybe more than a decade.

If you watched the SB game man ram was being pushed back into Mannings Pocket he had NO where to step up and make a pass. there was DL guys draped all over him most of the game. that is what I saw in the game.

If the hawks do it it is a matter of time before everyone in the NFCW does it.

OGs are deep can get a really good one in round 3 maybe 4. OCs only 2 or 3 worth drafting. the kid from CSU is supposed to be in the top 2.

We had Nails for how long? once you get a great one you keep them. Ramirez is 31 this year. not many more seasons on that body.

Koppen was Denver's starting center for all of 2012. Ramirez took Kuper's place on the line and until this season Ramirez had never played center.