Miami Dolphins to meet with free agent RB Knowshon Moreno

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ORLANDO -- The Miami Dolphins, quiet shoppers for the past week in free agency, are about to make some noise.

They are set to host Denver Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno for a free agent visit, according to a league source. Moreno is expected to meet with the team Friday.

Moreno rushed for a career-high 1,038 yards and 10 touchdowns last season, averaging 4.3 yards per carry. He also caught 60 passes for 548 yards and three scores.

rest - http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/03/20/4007495/miami-dolphins-to-host-denver.html

[aberdien]

Are we content with only one semi-proven running back?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Are we content with only one semi-proven running back?

I hear ya - I was hoping the Broncos would bring Knowshon back

[BroncoWave]

Are we content with only one semi-proven running back?

I guess so. It's hard to fault Elway for much given his moves his offseason, but not even trying to bring Knowshon back is a blunder IMO. I think the offense will miss him more than people realize. i hope I'm wrong though, and that we find another good complimentary back that we can plug in to go along with Ball.

[NightTerror218]

I want him back as tandem back with ball. Guess Fox wants Hillman to compete with ball.

[broncohead]

I don't think our offense will miss a beat as long as Ball is healthy or doesn't get suspended for some reason. With that said I think we will be in a world of hurt if Hillman has to be the starter. I like Hillman as a situational player but if forced to be the starter it could be bad.

[NightTerror218]

I don't think our offense will miss a beat as long as Ball is healthy or doesn't get suspended for some reason. With that said I think we will be in a world of hurt if Hillman has to be the starter. I like Hillman as a situational player but if forced to be the starter it could be bad.

Ball/moreno way better then ball/hillman. Hillman was a fumble machine who cant block.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

March 5th DP article


Steady, Montee. Keep it rolling, C.J.

The Broncos believe it's time to take the training wheels off their kid running backs, Montee Ball and C.J. Anderson.

"I can't wait," Anderson said Tuesday. "It's an opportunity. It's up to us to take advantage of the opportunity."

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25277209/broncos-likely-ride-young-horses-at-running-back#axzz2wWeZM9vl

Looks like it might be Ball and Anderson

[dogfish]

boooo! damn it, john. . .

[tomjonesrocks]

Denver has made it obvious there's just zero interest. Not sure I understand the full reason why, as he seems in for a modest salary.

[CrazyHorse]

I'm guessing we draft a RB; Likely in the later rounds.

[luckyseven]

Denver has made it obvious there's just zero interest. Not sure I understand the full reason why, as he seems in for a modest salary.

I'd say anything more than Vet Min is more than John is willing to spend.

Ball and Anderson with Hillman as COP.

[CrazyHorse]

Chris Johnson with Manning intrigues me.

[Simple Jaded]

Allow Virgil Green to play some RB like he did in PO's, go all Rod Bernstein on their ass.

Regardless of whether the Broncos ever legitimately miss Moreno or not his reputation has exceeded his actually play to the point that any time a RB misses a block or drops a pass people are gonna be all like "Told you we'd miss Moreno!", completely ignoring the fact that Moreno had his share of mistake as well.

When it comes to fan favorites I think teams are in a no-win situation, but say the Broncos do want him back, if his price is anywhere north of $1.5-or-so million that actually constitutes a raise compared to the '14 club option the Broncos chose not to pick up.

I sincerely doubt that's an appealing scenario to the Broncos FO.

[DenBronx]

Chris Johnson with Manning intrigues me.



Chris Johnson without a Chris Johnson contract intrigues me.

[dogfish]

Allow Virgil Green to play some RB like he did in PO's, go all Rod Bernstein on their ass.

Regardless of whether the Broncos ever legitimately miss Moreno or not his reputation has exceeded his actually play to the point that any time a RB misses a block or drops a pass people are gonna be all like "Told you we'd miss Moreno!", completely ignoring the fact that Moreno had his share of mistake as well.

When it comes to fan favorites I think teams are in a no-win situation, but say the Broncos do want him back, if his price is anywhere north of $1.5-or-so million that actually constitutes a raise compared to the '14 club option the Broncos chose not to pick up.

I sincerely doubt that's an appealing scenario to the Broncos FO.

i just don't see how you justify keeping hillman over bringing knowshon back, if you can-- with this particular team's aspirations, don't you at least make the call and find out the price?

if ball gets dinged, who's supposed to pass block? anderson never has at this level, and hillman is pretty much physically incapable of blocking anyone bigger than a corner. . . i know RB isn't exactly a critical position, but we DO rely on them a lot in the passing game-- and certainly wouldn't suffer from being a little more balanced team, either. . . it just seems like hubris to me to say our backfield is fine for an all-or-nothing team. . . i realize you only have so much salary cap, and have to "get by" somewhere, but the almost total lack of NFL experience behind ball (and his one year) admittedly makes me a little nervous. . . guess that's how we wanna roll though, so i hope it works awesome. . .

[dogfish]

Chris Johnson without a Chris Johnson contract intrigues me.

lol, no shit. . . i don't think we have 8 million left in total salary cap, let alone that much for one player. . . more so, it doesn't look like we want to spend anything on a vet, nevermind bringing in a premiere name like CK1K. . . i'll admit, i really wanted us to go after a high-end vet back like MJD when we first signed manning, but the FO never seemed to have any interest in that direction. . .

[TXBRONC]

I'm guessing we draft a RB; Likely in the later rounds.

My thoughts exactly.

[luckyseven]

i just don't see how you justify keeping hillman over bringing knowshon back, if you can-- with this particular team's aspirations, don't you at least make the call and find out the price?

if ball gets dinged, who's supposed to pass block? anderson never has at this level, and hillman is pretty much physically incapable of blocking anyone bigger than a corner. . . i know RB isn't exactly a critical position, but we DO rely on them a lot in the passing game-- and certainly wouldn't suffer from being a little more balanced team, either. . . it just seems like hubris to me to say our backfield is fine for an all-or-nothing team. . . i realize you only have so much salary cap, and have to "get by" somewhere, but the almost total lack of NFL experience behind ball (and his one year) admittedly makes me a little nervous. . . guess that's how we wanna roll though, so i hope it works awesome. . .

If I had to make the choice between Hillman and Moreno. I woudl want to see it be revenue neutral Which means about 480k. I guess that would never happen

We flat do not have much money to spend at this moment unless we cut other players. Dressen maybe but Tamme is Mannings security blanket IIRC Dressen is injured and would entail a settlement.

[Simple Jaded]

i just don't see how you justify keeping hillman over bringing knowshon back, if you can-- with this particular team's aspirations, don't you at least make the call and find out the price?

if ball gets dinged, who's supposed to pass block? anderson never has at this level, and hillman is pretty much physically incapable of blocking anyone bigger than a corner. . . i know RB isn't exactly a critical position, but we DO rely on them a lot in the passing game-- and certainly wouldn't suffer from being a little more balanced team, either. . . it just seems like hubris to me to say our backfield is fine for an all-or-nothing team. . . i realize you only have so much salary cap, and have to "get by" somewhere, but the almost total lack of NFL experience behind ball (and his one year) admittedly makes me a little nervous. . . guess that's how we wanna roll though, so i hope it works awesome. . .

To be honest with ya I woulda picked up his club option, even with as much as I've been a critic of his I thought it was a solid move at the time. Worse thing that coulda happened was he went on to price himself outta my price range next offseason.

When they signed McGahee it was for $3 mil, something like that, well that appears to be the high end of the starting FA RB range this year. Moreno's plan might be waiting it out to see if he can find that job, but atm I don't think anybody considers him their '14 starter.

As for the blocking aspect, with a full year with the team if the Broncos can't get Ball and Anderson to the point where they're both solid then that's on them. And if they can get two backs to where they can trust them that's one more than they had for most of last season.

As for Hillman, at the least he can help replace Moreno's receiving. Personally, I wouldn't give up on him because he can't pass pro, he does add a quickness element to the offense. However, who knows how he fits in the Broncos new plan to run better.

[Dzone]

Bring Knowshon back. That will suck if he signs with the dolphins

[Hawgdriver]

i just don't see how you justify keeping hillman over bringing knowshon back, if you can-- with this particular team's aspirations, don't you at least make the call and find out the price?

if ball gets dinged, who's supposed to pass block? anderson never has at this level, and hillman is pretty much physically incapable of blocking anyone bigger than a corner. . . i know RB isn't exactly a critical position, but we DO rely on them a lot in the passing game-- and certainly wouldn't suffer from being a little more balanced team, either. . . it just seems like hubris to me to say our backfield is fine for an all-or-nothing team. . . i realize you only have so much salary cap, and have to "get by" somewhere, but the almost total lack of NFL experience behind ball (and his one year) admittedly makes me a little nervous. . . guess that's how we wanna roll though, so i hope it works awesome. . .

Our passing game, as in, our offense, as in, the Denver Broncos.

I was on the fence about him, quick to say he underachieved, but last season he was a vital piece. Apparently staff believes Ball is ready, but there are legitimate questions of depth and experience at the position. I'd like to know the full story on why I'm not seeing it the way the FO does.

[Northman]

Are we content with only one semi-proven running back?

Doubt it. They will probably draft another one.

[Northman]

I guess so. It's hard to fault Elway for much given his moves his offseason, but not even trying to bring Knowshon back is a blunder IMO. I think the offense will miss him more than people realize. i hope I'm wrong though, and that we find another good complimentary back that we can plug in to go along with Ball.

Its ok, breathe. It wont be the end of the world. Jman knows what he is doing, have faith.

[sneakers]

I'm guessing we draft a RB; Likely in the later rounds.

I keep forgetting the draft hasn't occurred

[BroncoWave]

Its ok, breathe. It wont be the end of the world. Jman knows what he is doing, have faith.

Um, ok? I'm not sure where you got out of that that I think it will be the end of the world if we don't sign Knowshon. It's simply one move I disagree with Elway on. If you read my posts at all, you would know that I have supreme faith in Elway and I back almost every move he makes. This just happens to be one I disagree with. That doesn't suddenly mean I think Elway doesn't know what he's doing.

[Northman]

Um, ok? I'm not sure where you got out of that that I think it will be the end of the world if we don't sign Knowshon. It's simply one move I disagree with Elway on. If you read my posts at all, you would know that I have supreme faith in Elway and I back almost every move he makes. This just happens to be one I disagree with. That doesn't suddenly mean I think Elway doesn't know what he's doing.

I was ribbing you dude. lol

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'm gonna miss Knowshon and Woodyard. They're two of my favorite Broncos. Knowshon signed my kids hat during the 11' season. It was a pretty cool birthday treat to my son to go to Denver for his 13th birthday and get his hat signed by Moreno.

I loved the passion both of those guys played with.

[artie_dale]

I'm glad for Moreno. I'm not going to miss him much if Ball and C.J. can step in. Ball was getting it together in the latter part of the season and C.J. showed flashes of quickness Knowshon never had. I like Knowshon's passion, but I want a dangerous running attack. Hillman reminds me WAY TOO MUCH of Tatum Bell. Scat back that runs out of gas during breakaways... or what SHOULD HAVE BEEN breakaways. Fumbles are game changers too. Tatum Bell had a bit of a problem with that also.

So yeah, Monte Ball & C.J. Anderson can be a very productive combo.

Knowshon had a total of almost 1,600 yds (all) and 13 totall TDs. How much of that can he get without the likes of Peyton Manning? I don't think an RB should get anything close to top dollar if he can't do what he does in another system.

[dogfish]

i WISH hillman reminded me of tater! dude isn't half as fast. . .

[CoachChaz]

i just don't see how you justify keeping hillman over bringing knowshon back, if you can-- with this particular team's aspirations, don't you at least make the call and find out the price?

if ball gets dinged, who's supposed to pass block? anderson never has at this level, and hillman is pretty much physically incapable of blocking anyone bigger than a corner. . . i know RB isn't exactly a critical position, but we DO rely on them a lot in the passing game-- and certainly wouldn't suffer from being a little more balanced team, either. . . it just seems like hubris to me to say our backfield is fine for an all-or-nothing team. . . i realize you only have so much salary cap, and have to "get by" somewhere, but the almost total lack of NFL experience behind ball (and his one year) admittedly makes me a little nervous. . . guess that's how we wanna roll though, so i hope it works awesome. . .

CJ was actually a pretty good pass blocker at Cal and I think he can easily develop into a good one in Denver. I've been singing his praises since last year's draft and I wont stop now. If given a fair chance...and leaving politics of draft location out of the mix...I think Anderson would prove to be better overall than Ball and maybe even Moreno.

[dogfish]

CJ was actually a pretty good pass blocker at Cal and I think he can easily develop into a good one in Denver. I've been singing his praises since last year's draft and I wont stop now. If given a fair chance...and leaving politics of draft location out of the mix...I think Anderson would prove to be better overall than Ball and maybe even Moreno.

yea, i have high hopes for CJ-- i'm good with that use of a roster spot. . . i just wish we'd use that third RB spot for a more useful player than hillman-- for a win-now team, a vet just brings more to the table, IMO. . . in any case, we haven't even looked at any backs, so it seems like the FO thinks we're set there, other than the inevitable UDFA camp bodies or later round pick. . .

[CoachChaz]

yea, i have high hopes for CJ-- i'm good with that use of a roster spot. . . i just wish we'd use that third RB spot for a more useful player than hillman-- for a win-now team, a vet just brings more to the table, IMO. . . in any case, we haven't even looked at any backs, so it seems like the FO thinks we're set there, other than the inevitable UDFA camp bodies or later round pick. . .

A Sproles clone in later rounds would be fine with me. Someone with actual speed to be that change of pace speed back would be nice.

[luckyseven]

CJ was actually a pretty good pass blocker at Cal and I think he can easily develop into a good one in Denver. I've been singing his praises since last year's draft and I wont stop now. If given a fair chance...and leaving politics of draft location out of the mix...I think Anderson would prove to be better overall than Ball and maybe even Moreno.

from what I have seen of him I believe he will also be our longer term RB.


I do not see them dumping hillman just yet

[luckyseven]

yea, i have high hopes for CJ-- i'm good with that use of a roster spot. . . i just wish we'd use that third RB spot for a more useful player than hillman-- for a win-now team, a vet just brings more to the table, IMO. . . in any case, we haven't even looked at any backs, so it seems like the FO thinks we're set there, other than the inevitable UDFA camp bodies or later round pick. . .

I think they have looked at RBs or they would not be able to make a good choice as you suggest in the latter part of your post.

[tomjonesrocks]

I flat out don't know what they see in Hillman at this point. I mean, what would be his ceiling if he emerged? A slower Sproles? Who was just unloaded for a mid-rd pick?

He's frankly a terrible no-substitution/all-scenarios-you-stay-in back. Just does not seem a good fit.

Maybe they're just that enamored with backs in the draft? Seems risky to me.

[GEM]

Thinking back just a couple short years ago and can't believe the turnaround I feel about Moreno. I was really hoping they would grab him back. :( If he goes, I will miss his light on this team.

[tomjonesrocks]

Thinking back just a couple short years ago and can't believe the turnaround I feel about Moreno. I was really hoping they would grab him back. :( If he goes, I will miss his light on this team.

The only thing I can think of is that because of the SB, Denver wants a power back to grind out the clock--an Eddie Lacy or Marshawn Lynch-type. Is there a guy like that in the draft?

[luckyseven]

The only thing I can think of is that because of the SB, Denver wants a power back to grind out the clock--an Eddie Lacy or Marshawn Lynch-type. Is there a guy like that in the draft?

Lynch was irrelevant in the past SB. He had 30 something yards.

I see NO reason to overpay for irrelevance.

[GEM]

I flat out don't know what they see in Hillman at this point. I mean, what would be his ceiling if he emerged? A slower Sproles? Who was just unloaded for a mid-rd pick?

He's frankly a terrible no-substitution/all-scenarios-you-stay-in back. Just does not seem a good fit.

Maybe they're just that enamored with backs in the draft? Seems risky to me.

There really isn't any upside to Hillman. He's just bad all around.

[Ravage!!!]

I think Hillman gets too much shit and I think he's just the newest recipiant of the HIGHLY exaggerated "hate" around the boards. He isn't NEARLY as bad as you guys are making him out to be.... not near.

If Moreno had any kind of speed,he would still be on the roster.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 1h

The Broncos gave a tryout earlier this week to CB-S Jordan Pugh and RB Kendial Lawrence. Neither was signed.

I do not understand. They would not be bringing in a RB, if they are satisfied what they have. What is their problem with bringing Knowshon back????

[luckyseven]

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 1h

The Broncos gave a tryout earlier this week to CB-S Jordan Pugh and RB Kendial Lawrence. Neither was signed.

I do not understand. They would not be bringing in a RB, if they are satisfied what they have. What is their problem with bringing Knowshon back????

Carol they know what they had with moreno. Warts and all, they also know he is at this moment out of their price range.

Even if they are happy with Ball and Anderson, no team passes on looking at potential players. So looking at someone is always good .

Perhaps Moreno will bring his prices down and comes back, if not adios.

[DenBronx]

I flat out don't know what they see in Hillman at this point. I mean, what would be his ceiling if he emerged? A slower Sproles? Who was just unloaded for a mid-rd pick?

He's frankly a terrible no-substitution/all-scenarios-you-stay-in back. Just does not seem a good fit.

Maybe they're just that enamored with backs in the draft? Seems risky to me.

There really isn't any upside to Hillman. He's just bad all around.


Agreed. He fumbles at the worst times with the game on the line. We could have beat NE in regular season if I recall right.

[Simple Jaded]

The way people talk about Hillman you'd think he was a huge waste of the 12th overall pick.

[MOtorboat]

Agreed. He fumbles at the worst times with the game on the line. We could have beat NE in regular season if I recall right.

He fumbled once with the game on the line. Against the Colts.

[CrazyHorse]

A Sproles clone in later rounds would be fine with me. Someone with actual speed to be that change of pace speed back would be nice.

Dri Archer

[ForgettingBrandonMarshall]

Dri Archer

He's got speed, but I know a lot of Kent State football fans who say he's always nursing an injury. From what I've heard, his hamstrings are worse than Hillman's.

[luckyseven]

He's got speed, but I know a lot of Kent State football fans who say he's always nursing an injury. From what I've heard, his hamstrings are worse than Hillman's.

do you suppose Luke could use some of his Jedi Magic on those hamstrings?

he has done wonders for the rest of the broncos in that matter. Hardly a mention since he came to town.

he could be worth a late round pick. Any idea how big his hands are?

[Hawgdriver]

There really isn't any upside to Hillman. He's just bad all around.

Hillman is undersized and may have a fundamental size issue in the league especially regarding fumbles, but I see quality and glimpses of production. I'm far from ready to give up on him, but I respect your sentiment.

[Ravage!!!]

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 1h

The Broncos gave a tryout earlier this week to CB-S Jordan Pugh and RB Kendial Lawrence. Neither was signed.

I do not understand. They would not be bringing in a RB, if they are satisfied what they have. What is their problem with bringing Knowshon back????

Looking at a guy like this is looking for depth. You don't being Moreno back for depth, or for "depth cost." Guys like this play special teams, you don't bring Moreno back and expect him to play special teams.

They want to move forward with Ball and CJ. It's like when you draft a QB in the first round to take over for your current QB, you do NOT keep the incumbant around as a back-up. People thought we would keep Plummer around as a back-up, or Orton around as a back-up.

[BroncoWave]

Looking at a guy like this is looking for depth. You don't being Moreno back for depth, or for "depth cost." Guys like this play special teams, you don't bring Moreno back and expect him to play special teams.

They want to move forward with Ball and CJ. It's like when you draft a QB in the first round to take over for your current QB, you do NOT keep the incumbant around as a back-up. People thought we would keep Plummer around as a back-up, or Orton around as a back-up.

Quarterback isn't the same as running back. Obviously you can't keep the incumbant QB around when you replace him, but with RB you usually need two good guys. We made Moreno/Ball work last season, why not again?

[Ravage!!!]

Quarterback isn't the same as running back. Obviously you can't keep the incumbant QB around when you replace him, but with RB you usually need two good guys. We made Moreno/Ball work last season, why not again?

Because they are ready to move ON with Ball and CJ, and odn't want to pay Moreno to pay the money to be a backup. Plus, you can bring in a young RB for less money, and have HIM play special teams...Moreno isn't playing special teams. They are moving ON from Moreno, and don't want the distractions. I mean by distractions, as the fanbase "pushing" for the guy on the bench. It's different, but it's the same. John is moving on from Moreno and, if he isn't on the roster, so are the fans.

[BroncoWave]

Because they are ready to move ON with Ball and CJ, and odn't want to pay Moreno to pay the money to be a backup. Plus, you can bring in a young RB for less money, and have HIM play special teams...Moreno isn't playing special teams. They are moving ON from Moreno, and don't want the distractions. I mean by distractions, as the fanbase "pushing" for the guy on the bench. It's different, but it's the same. John is moving on from Moreno.

But both Moreno and Ball would get plenty of snaps, as happened last year, so your theory of fans "screaming for Moreno" wouldn't happen. You are acting as if the #2 RB never plays. Also, your #2 RB doesn't have to play special teams.

[Ravage!!!]

But both Moreno and Ball would get plenty of snaps, as happened last year, so your theory of fans "screaming for Moreno" wouldn't happen. You are acting as if the #2 RB never plays. Also, your #2 RB doesn't have to play special teams.

He's not the #2... CJ is. You are still talking bout paying Moreno to come back, and they don't NEED to. They ahve Ball and CJ to take the snaps. Your #2 doesn't "need" to play special teams, but its common.... and VERY common for the #3. See what I mean about the fans asking for Moreno, and he's not even on the team. John has moved ON from Moreno and is comfortable with Ball and CJ. Lookign at other RBs for depth and special teams is pretty common. I bet we draft a RB in the late rounds.

[BroncoWave]

He's not the #2... CJ is. You are still talking bout paying Moreno to come back, and they don't NEED to. They ahve Ball and CJ to take the snaps. Your #2 doesn't "need" to play special teams, but its common.... and VERY common for the #3. See what I mean about the fans asking for Moreno, and he's not even on the team. John has moved ON from Moreno and is comfortable with Ball and CJ. Lookign at other RBs for depth and special teams is pretty common. I bet we draft a RB in the late rounds.

If Moreno came back, CJ would not be the #2. Bring Moreno back, CJ is the #3 and plays special teams. Simple.

[Ravage!!!]

If Moreno came back, CJ would not be the #2. Bring Moreno back, CJ is the #3 and plays special teams. Simple.

But they don't need to pay Moreno to be the #2 when they have a #2 in CJ. Simple. Now they can find a guy to be the #3 and play special teams.

[BroncoWave]

But they don't need to pay Moreno to be the #2 when they have a #2 in CJ. Simple. Now they can find a guy to be the #3 and play special teams.

How do you know they have a #2 in CJ? What did he show last year to prove that? For all we know, he could very well be a total scrub. Moreno is a proven commodity.

[WTE]

Guys, I have Peeps. And my Peeps are telling me Knowshon to New England is very real. It's him or Blount. It won't be both.

Stay tuned.

[Ravage!!!]

How do you know they have a #2 in CJ? What did he show last year to prove that? For all we know, he could very well be a total scrub. Moreno is a proven commodity.

He's a proven RB that doesn't have speed and doesn't have power. They have seen enough of CJ, and so have many people, to obviously move forward with him as the #2. Many believe CJ to be the best on the roster, and Ball has already (imo) proved to be a better RB than Moreno.

Besides, my comment isn't based on what I believe. I'm basing it off the simple fact that CJ is the #2 and Moreno isn't on the roster. They don't need to sign Moreno to the roster when they have CJ as the #2. Paying Moreno to come back isn't in Denver's plans.

[BroncoWave]

Guys, I have Peeps. And my Peeps are telling me Knowshon to New England is very real. It's him or Blount. It won't be both.

Stay tuned.

If those little sugar-coated marshmellow candies are talking to you, you should probably seek psychiatric help. :D

[Ravage!!!]

Guys, I have Peeps. And my Peeps are telling me Knowshon to New England is very real. It's him or Blount. It won't be both.

Stay tuned.

Hah.. this wouldn't suprise me one bit.

[BroncoWave]

He's a proven RB that doesn't have speed and doesn't have power. They have seen enough of CJ, and so have many people, to obviously move forward with him as the #2. Many believe CJ to be the best on the roster, and Ball has already (imo) proved to be a better RB than Moreno.

Besides, my comment isn't based on what I believe. I'm basing it off the simple fact that CJ is the #2 and Moreno isn't on the roster. They don't need to sign Moreno to the roster when they have CJ as the #2. Paying Moreno to come back isn't in Denver's plans.

The simple fact of the matter is that Moreno is a proven commodity and CJ is not. If Elway sees a lot in CJ and wants to move forward with him that's fine, but there is no guarantee that he will ever be as good as or better than Moreno.

I respect Elway and will roll with whatever he does, but if I were in his shoes I would have tried to bring Moreno back. Given our win now mode, I'd rather bring back the proven guy than the guy who looked good in a couple of preseason games.

[WTE]

My Peeps are reminding me that Moreno was Josh McDaniels first ever draft choice. # 12 overall. The connection is there.

[Ravage!!!]

The simple fact of the matter is that Moreno is a proven commodity and CJ is not. If Elway sees a lot in CJ and wants to move forward with him that's fine, but there is no guarantee that he will ever be as good as or better than Moreno.

I respect Elway and will roll with whatever he does, but if I were in his shoes I would have tried to bring Moreno back. Given our win now mode, I'd rather bring back the proven guy than the guy who looked good in a couple of preseason games.

Yes you would, but you have always had a larger impression of Moreno than nearly everyone else. He's slow, isn't going to break a long one, and certainly isn't power. The Broncos drafted Ball to replace him, and it doesn't make cap friendly sense to pay Moreno to come in when we have our #1 and #2. RB is the easiest position to fill on a team. Today's NFL doesn't need to play a lot of money to the RB position, and paying two guys at #1 money would be paying a lot for the position.

[Ravage!!!]

My Peeps are reminding me that Moreno was Josh McDaniels first ever draft choice. # 12 overall. The connection is there.

I hope that McDaniels has a LOT to do with your team's personnel decisions!!! :lol:

[BroncoWave]

Yes you would, but you have always had a larger impression of Moreno than nearly everyone else. He's slow, isn't going to break a long one, and certainly isn't power. The Broncos drafted Ball to replace him, and it doesn't make cap friendly sense to pay Moreno to come in when we have our #1 and #2. RB is the easiest position to fill on a team. Today's NFL doesn't need to play a lot of money to the RB position, and paying two guys at #1 money would be paying a lot for the position.

And you have a lower impression of Moreno than most people here, so it balances out.

Moreno could be had for substantially less than #1 money at this point IMO. RBs are getting pretty shafted on contracts this offseason. And Ball is still on his rookie deal, so it will be a few years before he is getting paid #1 money. We could bring Moreno back and still be paying less than 3 million bucks combined for both of them this season.

[WTE]

I hope that McDaniels has a LOT to do with your team's personnel decisions!!! :lol:

Some of the best players on your team were Josh's picks.

[Ravage!!!]

Some of the best players on your team were Josh's picks.

DT? Considering the number of complete failures, I 'll take the chances of him making ALLLLLL your selections.

[Ravage!!!]

And you have a lower impression of Moreno than most people here, so it balances out.

Moreno could be had for substantially less than #1 money at this point IMO. RBs are getting pretty shafted on contracts this offseason. And Ball is still on his rookie deal, so it will be a few years before he is getting paid #1 money. We could bring Moreno back and still be paying less than 3 million bucks combined for both of them this season.

Actually, it doesn't even out because I'm not the one making the contract decisions for the Broncos.

But you again, are missing the point. There is no reason to bring back Moreno for ANY contract that he woudl be asking for becasue no matter what it is, its MORE than what we are paying now....and we don't need it. YOU want to bring him back because you think he's special. ELway obviously doesn't believe him to be special. In fact, it appears that the entire NFL has passed on him up to this point, and he isn't highly sought after.

Its pretty simple. The reason that Elway isn't bringing Moreno back is because he believes that Moreno is already replaced.

[BroncoWave]

To answer your point of "not wanting to pay two guys #1 RB money". Montee Ball's contract for this season is $562,000 and given the market for RB, Moreno will probably get around 1.5-2 million. So for two pretty good RBs you are paying 2-2.5 million total. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me. (I know you don't think Moreno is good, but your assessment that we would be paying two guys "#1 RB money" is still incorrect)

[BroncoWave]

Also, the "Well Elway agrees with me that Moreno is not that good, so obviously I'm right" argument is not a very good one. Just because Elway isn't bringing him back doesn't prove you right on Moreno or me wrong on him. Even the absolute best GMs get moves wrong from time to time. Hiding behind Elway's decision is kinda weak IMO.

[Ravage!!!]

To answer your point of "not wanting to pay two guys #1 RB money". Montee Ball's contract for this season is $562,000 and given the market for RB, Moreno will probably get around 1.5-2 million. So for two pretty good RBs you are paying 2-2.5 million total. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me. (I know you don't think Moreno is good, but your assessment that we would be paying two guys "#1 RB money" is still incorrect)

I already answered this in my next post. It odesn't MATTER the cost of what our RBs are being paid or what Moreno is going to get paid. We don't need to pay him.

[BroncoWave]

I already answered this in my next post. It odesn't MATTER the cost of what our RBs are being paid or what Moreno is going to get paid. We don't need to pay him.

You seemed to think it mattered when you didn't want to pay two guys #1 money.

[Ravage!!!]

Also, the "Well Elway agrees with me that Moreno is not that good, so obviously I'm right" argument is not a very good one. Just because Elway isn't bringing him back doesn't prove you right on Moreno or me wrong on him. Even the absolute best GMs get moves wrong from time to time. Hiding behind Elway's decision is kinda weak IMO.

Dude.. READ what I said. I said the reason that Elway hasn't resigned him is because he believe Moreno is already REPLACED. That doesn't have ANYTHING to do with what I believe Elway feels about Moreno's skill set. Quit being so defensive and so childish. Quit looking up stats on payscale when the "stats" on the money isn't waht is actually being talked about. PAYING him #1 money is paying him to be on the roster, no matter WHAT the cost....because we don't NEED him on the roster.

Elway has shown that he doesn't feel he's worth the money..and that is probably because he feels taht Moreno has been replaced on this roster. IF he wasn't replaced, he would have either signed Moreno back, or signed another RB to do the job. Just as he did with Corner, DE, and Safety.

Quit this crap of trying so hard to correct people, and actually read what is being typed out.

[Ravage!!!]

You seemed to think it mattered when you didn't want to pay two guys #1 money.

GOD Damn you are ******* stubborn when you don't want to read what is actually being said. THE NUMBER DOESN"T MATTER when your team already HAS a #1 RB and a #2. NO MATTER WHAT IS BEING PAID TO MORENO, IT'S MORE THAN THEY WOULD BE PAYING NOW. Period.

[BroncoWave]

How do you know Elway thinks he already has Moreno replaced? This seems like more of an assumption on your part than fact.

[Ravage!!!]

How do you know Elway thinks he already has Moreno replaced? This seems like more of an assumption on your part than fact.

Really? Ok.. fine there brilliant one. :lol: I'm going to assume that Elway feels that our last year's pick in Ball is the replacement for Moreno. I'm taking a GIANT leap on that assumption and I'm going to stick with it.

[BroncoWave]

Really? Ok.. fine there brilliant one. :lol: I'm going to assume that Elway feels that our last year's pick in Ball is the replacement for Moreno. I'm taking a GIANT leap on that assumption and I'm going to stick with it.

I'm talking about CJ, not Ball. We're in agreement that Ball is the #1 guy regardless, but you seem 100% sure that Elway thinks we already have our #2 guy in CJ. To me, that is still a pretty big assumption given the little we have seen of CJ.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm talking about CJ, not Ball. We're in agreement that Ball is the #1 guy regardless, but you seem 100% sure that Elway thinks we already have our #2 guy in CJ. To me, that is still a pretty big assumption given the little we have seen of CJ.

I think Elway feels confident enough to move forward with CJ as the #2. I also stated that it doesn't surprise me that Elway is looking at other RBs on the market to bring in as depth...and said that I believe that we use a late round pick on a RB. But I think CJ showed some very good skill in college, and all the reports from people at the camps were pretty high on CJ. How things progress from here, is obviously unknown.

[Simple Jaded]

We can't assume that Denver considers Anderson to be the clear No2 back anymore than we can assume that they DON'T consider Hiillman the No2.

[DenBronx]

Hillman sucks!!!

[WTE]

Hillman sucks!!!

Eureka!

[GEM]

Moreno has tested the market with little interest. Hes going top be cheap four the taking now. Do it!

[WTE]

Moreno has tested the market with little interest. Hes going top be cheap four the taking now. Do it!

I guess you didn't hear what my peeps are saying.

[GEM]

I guess you didn't hear what my peeps are saying.

Your sons Easter marshmallows talk to you? I think he laced them in LSD!! :lol:

[BroncoWave]

Your sons Easter marshmallows talk to you? I think he laced them in LSD!! :lol:

No, I think WTE is just naturally that stoopid. :D

[WTE]

No, I think WTE is just naturally that stoopid. :D

We'll see who's stoopid when Knowshon signs with New England.

That's right Broncos fans, you heard it here first!

[MOtorboat]

We'll see who's stoopid when Knowshon signs with New England.

That's right Broncos fans, you heard it here first!

But you think he sucks, remember?

[WTE]

But you think he sucks, remember?

I never actually said that, did I Mo?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Moreno signing with NE would be like the Pope joining Hezbollah

[BroncoWave]

I'm not gonna lie, I would be really butthurt if Moreno signed with NE. It would definitely take some of the luster off this offseason for me.

[WTE]

I'm not gonna lie, I would be really butthurt if Moreno signed with NE. It would definitely take some of the luster off this offseason for me.

Well. we will see. My sources are beginning to dry up on this report. I will let you know if I hear more.

[Simple Jaded]

I'm not gonna lie, I would be really butthurt if Moreno signed with NE. It would definitely take some of the luster off this offseason for me.

Butthurt at who, Broncos or Moreno?

[Simple Jaded]

Hillman sucks!!!

So did Moreno.

[WTE]

So did Moreno.

I like his burst through the LOS.

[Simple Jaded]

I like his burst through the LOS.

Lmao, yeah compared to Blount I could see why.

[BroncoWave]

Butthurt at who, Broncos or Moreno?

Probably more at the Broncos. I really want Elway to bring him back. It wouldn't kill me if he went elsewhere, but it would really suck if it were NE.

[Simple Jaded]

Probably more at the Broncos. I really want Elway to bring him back. It wouldn't kill me if he went elsewhere, but it would really suck if it were NE.

Which would be followed by the obligatory media "brilliant move by Belicheat" reaction.

[BroncoWave]

Which would be followed by the obligatory media "brilliant move by Belicheat" reaction.

Kinda seems like that's the reaction anytime they sign anyone. I just find it funny at this point.

[WTE]

Moreno was your best RB.

[SoCalImport]

I didn't give it too much thought till a Faiders Fan I know mentioned how Oakland should bring in Moreno. SUddenely I was very emotionally invested in where Knowshon ends up. Pbviously that's not gonna happen (thank god)

[Simple Jaded]

Kinda seems like that's the reaction anytime they sign anyone. I just find it funny at this point.

I think it's contractually obligated.

[BroncoWave]

Moreno was your best RB.

Anyone from our offense last season would be the best player at that position on NE's offense if plugged in there (other than TE, which is getting closer). Kinda cool, huh?

[Simple Jaded]

I didn't give it too much thought till a Faiders Fan I know mentioned how Oakland should bring in Moreno. SUddenely I was very emotionally invested in where Knowshon ends up. Pbviously that's not gonna happen (thank god)

Hehe, same here, I was cool either way if the Broncos brought him back or not until the Patriots were brought up.

[Simple Jaded]

Anyone from our offense last season would be the best player at that position on NE's offense if plugged in there (other than TE, which is getting closer). Kinda cool, huh?

RB was the bottom of totem pole when it comes to their loaded offense, too.

[WTE]

Anyone from our offense last season would be the best player at that position on NE's offense if plugged in there (other than TE, which is getting closer). Kinda cool, huh?

You couldn't be more wrong. And if that was the case you wouldn't have lost 43-8.

[Simple Jaded]

You couldn't be more wrong. And if that was the case you wouldn't have lost 43-8.

WR, LT, RT, C, RG, QB, RB to LG and TE. TE is up in the air too.

[BroncoWave]

You couldn't be more wrong. And if that was the case you wouldn't have lost 43-8.

What does the Super Bowl have to do with how much better Denver is than New England?

[Simple Jaded]

What does the Super Bowl have to do with how much better Denver is than New England?

You did forget about LG, apparently Mankins woulda made all the difference in that game.

[WTE]

Then it must be coaching if your players are that far superior? Fox and JDR must really suck!

Because I guarantee you NE would never have been as thoroughly embarrassed against SEA as you guys were.

That's a WTE Guarantee.

[Simple Jaded]

Then it must be coaching if your players are that far superior? Fox and JDR must really suck!

Because I guarantee you NE would never have been as thoroughly embarrassed against SEA as you guys were.

That's a WTE Guarantee.

Prove it.

[WTE]

Prove it.

NE has been to five SB's since the last time Denver has been there and BB's team has never lost by more than four I believe.

If your players are so "superior" to everyone else's, it just leaves one denominator. Fox and JDR are horrible!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

UPDATE: After meeting with the Dolphins as expected, Moreno left South Beach without a deal. Stay tuned.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000335252/article/which-player-best-fits-where

[Davii]

NE has been to five SB's since the last time Denver has been there and BB's team has never lost by more than four I believe.

If your players are so "superior" to everyone else's, it just leaves one denominator. Fox and JDR are horrible!

Stop trolling. This thread is about Knowshon Moreno and his free agent visits. He hasn't visited the Patriots, this also isn't the rehash the Super Bowl, the my coach is better, or genitalia measuring thread.

Take your trolling smack bullshit where it belongs.

[Simple Jaded]

NE has been to five SB's since the last time Denver has been there and BB's team has never lost by more than four I believe.



None of that has anything to do with the Seattle Seahawks on Feb 2 2014.

Btw, the discussion was about how Denver's offensive players are better than NE's, not "everyone else's".

Also, Fox and Del Rio do not coach Denver's offense any more than they coach NE's offense.

[Davii]

None of that has anything to do with the Seattle Seahawks on Feb 2 2014.

Don't feed the troll Jaded!

[luckyseven]

How do you know they have a #2 in CJ? What did he show last year to prove that? For all we know, he could very well be a total scrub. Moreno is a proven commodity.

Facts are Moreno is going to want 3-5+ mil a year. (he made 3.2 last year)

They do not have that to spend.


They know what he can do and what his limitations are. he only started because the other RBs were hurt late in 2012 and was listed as 3rd sting this past year until the other RBs proved not to have ball security.

FACT is they do not like him as much as they do Ball, Anderson and probably Hillman. they were all John and Johns picks they are invested in them and not moreno even though he carried the freight

They obviously liked what they saw in Ball late in the year much of last year. he got a 120 carries and had 4.7 YPC and caught 20 passes. and totaled 4 TDs in very limited action.

anderson had a 5.4 YPC in even less action.

Fox has always liked bigger backs moreno was not fast enough, and was limited.

These coaches saw these player everyday in practice and in the film rooms, I think they know more than the average fan.

the reason Moreno has not signed with anyone should be telling .

[TXBRONC]

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 1h

The Broncos gave a tryout earlier this week to CB-S Jordan Pugh and RB Kendial Lawrence. Neither was signed.

I do not understand. They would not be bringing in a RB, if they are satisfied what they have. What is their problem with bringing Knowshon back????

The team still needs some depth at that position.

[BroncoWave]

Facts are Moreno is going to want 3-5+ mil a year. (he made 3.2 last year)

They do not have that to spend.


They know what he can do and what his limitations are. he only started because the other RBs were hurt late in 2012 and was listed as 3rd sting this past year until the other RBs proved not to have ball security.

FACT is they do not like him as much as they do Ball, Anderson and probably Hillman. they were all John and Johns picks they are invested in them and not moreno even though he carried the freight

They obviously liked what they saw in Ball late in the year much of last year. he got a 120 carries and had 4.7 YPC and caught 20 passes. and totaled 4 TDs in very limited action.

anderson had a 5.4 YPC in even less action.

Fox has always liked bigger backs moreno was not fast enough, and was limited.

These coaches saw these player everyday in practice and in the film rooms, I think they know more than the average fan.

the reason Moreno has not signed with anyone should be telling .

Moreno is not getting 3-5 mil this year. Tate only got 2 and he is better than Moreno.

[luckyseven]

Moreno is not getting 3-5 mil this year. Tate only got 2 and he is better than Moreno.

I used that number only as a reference sinc eye made 3.2 last year.

I have not followed the market for Rbs so you may be correct, but you can bet he or his agent is looking for that much money as a huge part of the SB team having his best year those are his expectations.

That is his starting point simple as that, he has money in the bank like several vets last year they waited till an injury happened and then got paid. Maybe not 4-5 but he will get paid.

[BroncoWave]

I used that number only as a reference sinc eye made 3.2 last year.

I have not followed the market for Rbs so you may be correct, but you can bet he or his agent is looking for that much money as a huge part of the SB team having his best year those are his expectations.

That is his starting point simple as that, he has money in the bank like several vets last year they waited till an injury happened and then got paid. Maybe not 4-5 but he will get paid.

And what if he doesn't get paid like he wants? He still has to play somewhere. If the market shows that he won't get more than 2 mil, why not bring him back if you're Denver?

[Davii]

And what if he doesn't get paid like he wants? He still has to play somewhere. If the market shows that he won't get more than 2 mil, why not bring him back if you're Denver?

I think he might give the Broncos the chance to match whatever he's offered. Maybe not, maybe he does and they decline, who knows. I just know I wouldn't mind seeing KnoMo back.

[TXBRONC]

Moreno is as replaceable as any other player outside of quarterback.

[Jsteve01]

Listen from Knowshon's perspective he's not been valued or appreciated by the current regime since he got hurt in Fox's first season as coach. He's been 3rd string in consecutive seasons until forced into duty. If I felt i was a number one back and knew my former employer did not, why would I choose to resign there? I'm not saying Ball and Anderson don't have more potential, but from Moreno's perspective other than us giving him the biggest deal, which btw I can't see happening, why would he choose Denver?

[dogfish]

Listen from Knowshon's perspective he's not been valued or appreciated by the current regime since he got hurt in Fox's first season as coach. He's been 3rd string in consecutive seasons until forced into duty. If I felt i was a number one back and knew my former employer did not, why would I choose to resign there? I'm not saying Ball and Anderson don't have more potential, but from Moreno's perspective other than us giving him the biggest deal, which btw I can't see happening, why would he choose Denver?

because it's a fantastic place to live and he's already familiar and comfortable here. . . because he fits better in this offense than anywhere else. . . because it's a chance to play with peyton manning on a title contender. . .

but all that aside, it doesn't look as though we're going to offer him the chance, at least as of right now. . .

[Simple Jaded]

because it's a fantastic place to live and he's already familiar and comfortable here. . . because he fits better in this offense than anywhere else. . . because it's a chance to play with peyton manning on a title contender. . .

but all that aside, it doesn't look as though we're going to offer him the chance, at least as of right now. . .

I'd be willing to bet they give him a call if they don't find a RB in the draft, if he's still out there.

[tomjonesrocks]

Stop trolling. This thread is about Knowshon Moreno and his free agent visits. He hasn't visited the Patriots, this also isn't the rehash the Super Bowl, the my coach is better, or genitalia measuring thread. Take your trolling smack bullshit where it belongs.

I'm really getting sick of his ******* posts. Thank you.

[DenBronx]

Any validity to the Chris Johnson trade to the Broncos rumors?

We would have to cut either Dreesen or Tamme to make it work.

[MOtorboat]

Any validity to the Chris Johnson trade to the Broncos rumors?

We would have to cut either Dreesen or Tamme to make it work.

No.

[Ravage!!!]

Chris Johnson wouldn't add anything to this offense.

[Ravage!!!]

I like his burst through the LOS.

wait... Moreno's or Hillman's?

[Dzone]

We would miss Knowshon. I hope he can stay in Denver

[DenBronx]

I never asked if Chris Johnson would add.anything to this offense. I asked if the rumor was true or false.

[DenBronx]

We would miss Knowshon. I hope he can stay in Denver

Yeah me too. Hope he finds his way back home when its all said and done.

[luckyseven]

Any validity to the Chris Johnson trade to the Broncos rumors?

We would have to cut either Dreesen or Tamme to make it work.

IIRC Dressen is going to get cut when he heals up and they do not have to have an injury settlement.
as far as tamme is concenred Manning like him and while he may be asked to restructure.

beside cutting them both leaves us with only Green as a tested TE besides JT whon blocks like a bull fighter.

[BroncoWave]

IIRC Dressen is going to get cut when he heals up and they do not have to have an injury settlement.
as far as tamme is concenred Manning like him and while he may be asked to restructure.

beside cutting them both leaves us with only Green as a tested TE besides JT whon blocks like a bull fighter.

Yeah, with JT's emergence there is really no need to keep both Dreesen and Tamme, but I agree they won't get rid of both.

[luckyseven]

Yeah, with JT's emergence there is really no need to keep both Dreesen and Tamme, but I agree they won't get rid of both.

JT is a force but if he goes down or has a minor injury, those that wanted to dumo Tamme or Dressen will be crying in their beer.

[Jsteve01]

Dreesen is by far the better blocker of the two. We definitely could have used a healthy Joel out there during the big game. Two TE sets and sent the nonexistent Eric Decker to the bench

[BroncoWave]

JT is a force but if he goes down or has a minor injury, those that wanted to dumo Tamme or Dressen will be crying in their beer.

Meh, not really. We could still get by with Virgil and whichever of the other 2 we keep. Having 4 TEs is more of a luxury than a need.

[DenBronx]

Dreesen is by far the better blocker of the two. We definitely could have used a healthy Joel out there during the big game. Two TE sets and sent the nonexistent Eric Decker to the bench


Deesens actually the better pass catching TE of the two. I would release Tamme over Dreesen but I doubt that would ever happen since him and Manning are bros. Having dual TE sets with JT and Dreesen opens up much more, when we actually do run dual TE sets.

[Simple Jaded]

Who cares if Manning likes Tamme? He also likes the 3-Wide, he may have to choose. Anything Tamme can do can be replaced by a rookie.

Personally, I'd dump him for J.C Copeland and be done with 4 TE rosters.

[DenBronx]

Meh, not really. We could still get by with Virgil and whichever of the other 2 we keep. Having 4 TEs is more of a luxury than a need.


There is no need for 4 TEs.Id say release Virgil Green but he makes beans compared to the other guys plus provides depth if we release Tamme or Dreesen.


NE would be smart to pick up whoever gets released.

[TXBRONC]

Who cares if Manning likes Tamme? He also likes the 3-Wide, he may have to choose. Anything Tamme can do can be replaced by a rookie.

Personally, I'd dump him for J.C Copeland and be done with 4 TE rosters.

Tamme is pretty versatile as a receiver. He's a little better receiver than Dreesen but Dreesen isthe better blocker. So rather have the better overall tight end.

[Bosco]

I doubt Tamme goes anywhere. He and Manning are very comfortable with each other and Tamme adds versatility in the slot. Dreessen is probably toast though. Virgil Green...who has a lot of potential as a receiver and has developed into a good blocker...is cheaper.

[Simple Jaded]

Tamme is redundant, a receiving "TE" who can't block, he's also 1 of 2 $3 mil backups.

[luckyseven]

Meh, not really. We could still get by with Virgil and whichever of the other 2 we keep. Having 4 TEs is more of a luxury than a need.

yet it seems that is Johns MO.

[luckyseven]

Tamme is redundant, a receiving "TE" who can't block, he's also 1 of 2 $3 mil backups.

could be said of JT also.

Hopefully he will learn to be something more than O'lay..

[BroncoWave]

could be said of JT also.

That was his point. That's why he called Tamme redundant.

[luckyseven]

That was his point. That's why he called Tamme redundant.

yet Manning likes him and has his confidence. in light of losing Decker Tamme will get some of those passes.

[Simple Jaded]

could be said of JT also.

Hopefully he will learn to be something more than O'lay..

They have two receiving TE's that can't block and two backups making $3 mil, Tamme is redundant. I'm sure the Broncos could get more for Thomas if they wanted to (fat chance) but they don't have to keep both. I actually don't care either way, keep all 4 or a combination of 3.

Personally, I'd be tempted to cut both Dreessen and Tamme so I could roll over more cap space into the '15 free agent class. That $6 mil alone is almost enough to franchise Julius Thomas.

[luckyseven]

They have two receiving TE's that can't block and two backups making $3 mil, Tamme is redundant. I'm sure the Broncos could get more for Thomas if they wanted to (fat chance) but they don't have to keep both. I actually don't care either way, keep all 4 or a combination of 3.

Personally, I'd be tempted to cut both Dreessen and Tamme so I could roll over more cap space into the '15 free agent class. That $6 mil alone is almost enough to franchise Julius Thomas.

Normally if say carry it over. But the last time I looked we will have some 50mil (not counting rookie contracts) to spend next year. A lot of players to sign but still a bunch of money to be spent

So they will be keeping 3-4 of the UFAs from next years crop and hopefully more of the rookies from the existing class and last years. Plus more rookies from this coming year will be required to contribute.

They are. It going to cut dressen until he is cleared medically. Not happening.

As for Tamme they may ask him to reup and cut his cap value. Manning is comfortable with Tamme he can be used as that slot guy and outside coverage. Not many CBs can cover his size.

So IMO he will be back with a lesser
Contract.

Please stop beating the TE drum because the Johns like having 3-4 on the roster.

[Simple Jaded]

:GetsoutdrumpaintsTEonitandstartsbeating:

[DenBronx]

could be said of JT also.

Hopefully he will learn to be something more than O'lay..


JT is so explosive as a recieving TE that I could careless if he can block or not. His talents greatly outweigh his bad. The more he plays the better he will get at blocking. IMO, he is a top 3 TE in the NFL right now.

[MOtorboat]

JT is so explosive as a recieving TE that I could careless if he can block or not. His talents greatly outweigh his bad. The more he plays the better he will get at blocking. IMO, he is a top 3 TE in the NFL right now.

If Fox would have benched Thomas for Dreesen, Manning would have never been sacked at all.

:coffee:

[TXBRONC]

JT is so explosive as a recieving TE that I could careless if he can block or not. His talents greatly outweigh his bad. The more he plays the better he will get at blocking. IMO, he is a top 3 TE in the NFL right now.

I do care because there are times he's asked to block in the running game and the passing game. He doesn't have to be all world but I like he become more competent in that area.

[VonDoom]

Cecil Lammey says in a Tweet that Moreno could be back. Which is more than I could say for any of our other FA who left; I don't think there was any effort to bring back Decker, Woodyard, etc (DRC is an exception, and we know how that turned out)

Cecil Lammey @cecillammey
Follow

John Fox says "Most definitely." when asked if door is open for Moreno "He may be back with us." told @mortreport at Owners Meetings

[BroncoWave]

Cecil Lammey says in a Tweet that Moreno could be back. Which is more than I could say for any of our other FA who left; I don't think there was any effort to bring back Decker, Woodyard, etc (DRC is an exception, and we know how that turned out)

Cecil Lammey @cecillammey
Follow

John Fox says "Most definitely." when asked if door is open for Moreno "He may be back with us." told @mortreport at Owners Meetings

Huh, that's interesting given that a certain few poaters absolutely KNOW that we have no plans to bring Moreno back.

[tomjonesrocks]

The Moreno to the Pats rumors that emerged over the weekend didn't exactly thrill me...

[dogfish]

Cecil Lammey says in a Tweet that Moreno could be back. Which is more than I could say for any of our other FA who left; I don't think there was any effort to bring back Decker, Woodyard, etc (DRC is an exception, and we know how that turned out)

Cecil Lammey @cecillammey
Follow

John Fox says "Most definitely." when asked if door is open for Moreno "He may be back with us." told @mortreport at Owners Meetings

that's what i like to hear. . . let's get this done, john. . .

[Ravage!!!]

Huh, that's interesting given that a certain few poaters absolutely KNOW that we have no plans to bring Moreno back.

YOu can name me, homie. I have never said I KNOW anything. But just going by the evidence given, there are no PLANS to persue him coming back. You really need to start reading what people are saying rather than get so defensive and put everything into such black-n-white categories and act as if everyone is talking/speaking/typing in definitives.

But I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't give a care either way. Moreno doesn't thrill me or excite me in the least. He's slow and doesn't have power. I think he's easy to replace and am not worried if we don't resign him. However, if we do, then ok. I'm not going to be upset or disappointed either way.

But I'm still very confident that there are no plans to bring Moreno back.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Cecil Lammey says in a Tweet that Moreno could be back. Which is more than I could say for any of our other FA who left; I don't think there was any effort to bring back Decker, Woodyard, etc (DRC is an exception, and we know how that turned out)

Cecil Lammey @cecillammey
Follow

John Fox says "Most definitely." when asked if door is open for Moreno "He may be back with us." told @mortreport at Owners Meetings

:pray::pray::pray:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ORLANDO, Fla. – The Miami Dolphins made some headlines late last week with their visit with free-agent running back Knowshon Moreno. However, Moreno's visit Friday concluded with the tailback leaving without signing a contract.

Dolphins general manager Dennis Hickey said at the NFL's league meetings Monday that Miami hasn't closed the door on Moreno.

"Free agency is ongoing, so we have talks," Hickey said. "We’ll continue to go through [it] and continue dialogue and see where it goes from there."

rest - http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/584850-NFL-officials-to-use-wireless-communication-in-2014

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Northman]

I wonder what the hangup is in Miami? Is Moreno asking for the moon?

[DenBronx]

Cecil Lammey says in a Tweet that Moreno could be back. Which is more than I could say for any of our other FA who left; I don't think there was any effort to bring back Decker, Woodyard, etc (DRC is an exception, and we know how that turned out)

Cecil Lammey @cecillammey
Follow

John Fox says "Most definitely." when asked if door is open for Moreno "He may be back with us." told @mortreport at Owners Meetings




Id like that. I know MJD and possibly Chris Johnson are available but Morenos our homeboy. You could make a case that those other two RBs are better but you could also say Morenos way more up to speed on this offense. Having Moreno and Ball together solidifies our RB core with either Hillam or CJ as the 3rd option.


Seems Moreno tested the market, as well as MJD and there wasnt really a high demand for them on the open market. I think we will try to sign him but most likely a TE is going to get cut to make it happen.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I wonder what the hangup is in Miami? Is Moreno asking for the moon?

As posted earlier


Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey 2h

John Fox says "Most definitely." when asked if door is open for Moreno "He may be back with us." told @mortreport at Owners Meetings

With Coach Fox stating that Moreno may be back with us, I am assuming the Broncos have had talks with Moreno's agent, to see what the Broncos' best offer would be, vs what Miami's best offer would be.

[DenBronx]

I wonder what the hangup is in Miami? Is Moreno asking for the moon?


No, he's probably just asking for Pluto.

[VonDoom]

Id like that. I know MJD and possibly Chris Johnson are available but Morenos our homeboy. You could make a case that those other two RBs are better but you could also say Morenos way more up to speed on this offense. Having Moreno and Ball together solidifies our RB core with either Hillam or CJ as the 3rd option.


Seems Moreno tested the market, as well as MJD and there wasnt really a high demand for them on the open market. I think we will try to sign him but most likely a TE is going to get cut to make it happen.

If we're signing a veteran running back (and that's still a big if at this point), I'd want Moreno back over either of those two you mentioned. I'm not that excited about MJD at this point in his career, and I have no real interest in Johnson at all.

[luckyseven]

No, he's probably just asking for Pluto.

Pluto has been devalued over the past decade.

I would not pay him much more than 2 mil a year he has no more value to the team than did magahee probably less since he was never able to beat him out in straight up competition.

[VonDoom]

Pluto has been devalued over the past decade.

I would not pay him much more than 2 mil a year he has no more value to the team than did magahee probably less since he was never able to beat him out in straight up competition.

I think you're being a little unfair to Moreno. McGahee's only full year with us was 2011. Take a look compared to Knowshon's 2013:

McGahee - 249 att, 1,199 yds, 4.8 ypc, 4 TD. 12 rec, 51 yds, 1 TD. 30 years old at the time
Moreno - 241 att, 1,038 yds, 4.3 ypc, 10 TD. 60 rec, 548 yds, 3 TD. 26 years old.

I don't want to pay Moreno more than $2 mil anyway, but I think at this point he's more valuable than a comparable McGahee, no?

[DenBronx]

If we're signing a veteran running back (and that's still a big if at this point), I'd want Moreno back over either of those two you mentioned. I'm not that excited about MJD at this point in his career, and I have no real interest in Johnson at all.



MJD is drawing interest from about 5 teams anyway so I dont think you need to worry about him. Broncos wont get into a bidding war. Make no mistake about it though, Chris Johnson is still very explosive and a change of scenery with the right team would do him some good. I could see him having a huge year here and I think he compliments Ball to the T.


But, like I said, Morenos my first choice because he has been a part of this organization and is up to speed with this offense.

[DenBronx]

I think you're being a little unfair to Moreno. McGahee's only full year with us was 2011. Take a look compared to Knowshon's 2013:

McGahee - 249 att, 1,199 yds, 4.8 ypc, 4 TD. 12 rec, 51 yds, 1 TD. 30 years old at the time
Moreno - 241 att, 1,038 yds, 4.3 ypc, 10 TD. 60 rec, 548 yds, 3 TD. 26 years old.

I don't want to pay Moreno more than $2 mil anyway, but I think at this point he's more valuable than a comparable McGahee, no?



Good point on Moreno. He is a really good pass catching RB out of the backfield. That means first downs, keeping the drive alive and eventually touchdowns.

[TXBRONC]

If we're signing a veteran running back (and that's still a big if at this point), I'd want Moreno back over either of those two you mentioned. I'm not that excited about MJD at this point in his career, and I have no real interest in Johnson at all.

If Moreno signs with the Dolphins then I'm pretty sure Denver will draft a running back. MJD is used up and Chris Johnson isn't worth trading for.

[VonDoom]

If we're signing a veteran running back (and that's still a big if at this point), I'd want Moreno back over either of those two you mentioned. I'm not that excited about MJD at this point in his career, and I have no real interest in Johnson at all.

If Moreno signs with the Dolphins then I'm pretty sure Denver will draft a running back. MJD is used up and Chris Johnson isn't worth trading for.

Are we really going to draft another RB for the third year in a row? I think either Elway rolls with what we have or we try to bring in a cheap vet for depth.

[DenBronx]

Are we really going to draft another RB for the third year in a row? I think either Elway rolls with what we have or we try to bring in a cheap vet for depth.


I bet he brings in a vet on the cheap. Our other RBs are still reletively young.

[luckyseven]

I think you're being a little unfair to Moreno. McGahee's only full year with us was 2011. Take a look compared to Knowshon's 2013:

McGahee - 249 att, 1,199 yds, 4.8 ypc, 4 TD. 12 rec, 51 yds, 1 TD. 30 years old at the time
Moreno - 241 att, 1,038 yds, 4.3 ypc, 10 TD. 60 rec, 548 yds, 3 TD. 26 years old.

I don't want to pay Moreno more than $2 mil anyway, but I think at this point he's more valuable than a comparable McGahee, no?

while you have a valid point MAgahee was a proven comodity when he was signed.

Fox and John both know what morenos limitations are.

I have been a very big moreno supporter, his inability to break runs thru the middle of the OL worries me. He is not a long time player IMO.

I like both Ball and Anderson because of their size and speed, considering this is a passing first team I believe they will be able to get a tough yard or two when we have to get it. Something that neither Hillman or Moreno was known for.

Let me add if moreno comes back he will be the presumptive starter and will stifle growth of the young studs.

[TXBRONC]

I think you're being a little unfair to Moreno. McGahee's only full year with us was 2011. Take a look compared to Knowshon's 2013:

McGahee - 249 att, 1,199 yds, 4.8 ypc, 4 TD. 12 rec, 51 yds, 1 TD. 30 years old at the time
Moreno - 241 att, 1,038 yds, 4.3 ypc, 10 TD. 60 rec, 548 yds, 3 TD. 26 years old.

I don't want to pay Moreno more than $2 mil anyway, but I think at this point he's more valuable than a comparable McGahee, no?

This isn't in context. Tim Tebow was the quarterback for the majority of the year who couldn't hit broad side of barn and beside that Denver was running the ball about 60% of time. It's kind hard to catch passes if their running ball that much. In fact Denver ran the ball 546 times 2011 and last year we ran the ball 461 times.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This isn't in context. Tim Tebow was the quarterback for the majority of the year who couldn't hit broad side of barn and beside that Denver was running the ball about 60% of time. It's kind hard to catch passes if their running ball that much. In fact Denver ran the ball 546 times 2011 and last year we ran the ball 461 times.

McGahee was a little better between the tackles, but Moreno was a better receiver all day on Sunday.

[TXBRONC]

McGahee was a little better between the tackles, but Moreno was a better receiver all day on Sunday.

That's a myth. McGahee was very good receiver in 2012 he was on pace to about 40 reception. When he's been incorporated into a passing attack he's been productive.

[MOtorboat]

That's a myth. McGahee was very good receiver in 2012 he was on pace to about 40 reception. When he's been incorporated into a passing attack he's been productive.

He had a decent receiving season that year, but he's not the asset in the passing game that Moreno is.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He had a decent receiving season that year, but he's not the asset in the passing game that Moreno is.

That's the point I was trying to make. I was not suggesting McGahee wasn't a decent receiver. He's just not as good on 3rd down as Moreno is. They might be equal in blocking ability, but Moreno has some of the best hands at his position in the league. I can't remember the last time I saw him drop a pass. People might suggest that's not that big of a deal because he usually catches swing passes, but in the game of football swing passes get dropped all of the time. The timing of a swing pass isn't as simple as it appears on tv.

[VonDoom]

This isn't in context. Tim Tebow was the quarterback for the majority of the year who couldn't hit broad side of barn and beside that Denver was running the ball about 60% of time. It's kind hard to catch passes if their running ball that much. In fact Denver ran the ball 546 times 2011 and last year we ran the ball 461 times.

I realized this when I posted it, and I figured someone would make the Tebow argument. I can't really argue with that logic, either. I'm just saying that I don't think even Moreno's rushing numbers were that far off from McGahee's in that year. And while McGahee was fine in 2012 before he got hurt, I remember him having a case of the fumbles. That, plus the injury, plus the age made me feel like I had no desire to bring him back last year. I just feel differently about Moreno. Maybe because he's "one of us" and plays with a passion, but getting him cheap at age 27 when he already knows the system would be a plus. On the other hand ...


while you have a valid point MAgahee was a proven comodity when he was signed.

I like both Ball and Anderson because of their size and speed, considering this is a passing first team I believe they will be able to get a tough yard or two when we have to get it. Something that neither Hillman or Moreno was known for.

Let me add if moreno comes back he will be the presumptive starter and will stifle growth of the young studs.

My opinion is that no matter who is here, they're essentially going to be supporting Ball. I think he's ready to be our bell cow next year. I like the little I've seen from Anderson, but having him as our presumptive number two with almost no game experience is a little scary. I'd rather have Moreno play second fiddle and be a mentor to Ball, and I'd hope his hypothetical salary would reflect that. I'm not down for bringing in any veteran to keep Ball away from the field.

[DenBronx]

Moreno stifle the growth of our other RBs??


That is about as lame of a comment I have read since talking to OR in smack talk. If these young RBs are going to prove they are starter material then they will take FULL ADVANTAGE of their given opportunities and believe me they all get their chance to shine. Moreno isnt holding any of them back.

[TXBRONC]

I realized this when I posted it, and I figured someone would make the Tebow argument. I can't really argue with that logic, either. I'm just saying that I don't think even Moreno's rushing numbers were that far off from McGahee's in that year. And while McGahee was fine in 2012 before he got hurt, I remember him having a case of the fumbles. That, plus the injury, plus the age made me feel like I had no desire to bring him back last year. I just feel differently about Moreno. Maybe because he's "one of us" and plays with a passion, but getting him cheap at age 27 when he already knows the system would be a plus. On the other hand ...



My opinion is that no matter who is here, they're essentially going to be supporting Ball. I think he's ready to be our bell cow next year. I like the little I've seen from Anderson, but having him as our presumptive number two with almost no game experience is a little scary. I'd rather have Moreno play second fiddle and be a mentor to Ball, and I'd hope his hypothetical salary would reflect that. I'm not down for bringing in any veteran to keep Ball away from the field.

Anderson's lack of game experience doesn't concern me because he does have years worth practice experience under his belt. When Ball became the number two last year he didn't have that much game experience. If Denver can bring him back Moreno that's fine. There is a comfort level with because he played extremely well last year but I would like to see Denver draft another running back who is more explosive and is capable of replacing Ball if need be.

[CoachChaz]

We already have a more explosive runner than Ball. His name is Anderson.

[LTC Pain]

If the Broncos don't re-sign Moreno then they will draft a RB in round 4 or later.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport 3h

Broncos coach John Fox did say on ESPN Insiders the team has not closed door on return by Knowshon Moreno. Price must be right, obviously

[bcbronc]

YOu can name me, homie. I have never said I KNOW anything. But just going by the evidence given, there are no PLANS to persue him coming back. You really need to start reading what people are saying rather than get so defensive and put everything into such black-n-white categories and act as if everyone is talking/speaking/typing in definitives.

But I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't give a care either way. Moreno doesn't thrill me or excite me in the least. He's slow and doesn't have power. I think he's easy to replace and am not worried if we don't resign him. However, if we do, then ok. I'm not going to be upset or disappointed either way.

But I'm still very confident that there are no plans to bring Moreno back.

Nearly 1600 yards from scrimmage and 13 TDs are "easy" to replace? I don't know if Moreno will be back or not, but I think you're taking his productivity last season a bit for granted.

[BroncoWave]

Nearly 1600 yards from scrimmage and 13 TDs are "easy" to replace? I don't know if Moreno will be back or not, but I think you're taking his productivity last season a bit for granted.

I've never seen someone who is slow and lacks power amass those kinds of stats. Rav is off his rocker, as usual.

[DenBronx]

Nearly 1600 yards from scrimmage and 13 TDs are "easy" to replace? I don't know if Moreno will be back or not, but I think you're taking his productivity last season a bit for granted.


I've never seen someone who is slow and lacks power amass those kinds of stats. Rav is off his rocker, as usual.



If we are in must win now mode then Moreno makes the most sense. His productivity will be hard to match because he does so many other things than most people realize. I think he had a fantastic season last year.

[nevcraw]

Elway wants a better running game than last year. is that an indictment on Moreno, the line, Ball and back ups or all of the above? Moreno played his best ever benefitting from Manning's spread offense and manning's threats.. not sure he can be better. so either Ball is going to be better or they will bring in other help.

[luckyseven]

Elway wants a better running game than last year. is that an indictment on Moreno, the line, Ball and back ups or all of the above? Moreno played his best ever benefitting from Manning's spread offense and manning's threats.. not sure he can be better. so either Ball is going to be better or they will bring in other help.

you hit that one on the head.

I do not think they plan to run more, just that they want to be able to when they have to. something that was lacking at times last regular season and ALL OF the SUPERBOWL.

[dogfish]

Elway wants a better running game than last year. is that an indictment on Moreno, the line, Ball and back ups or all of the above? Moreno played his best ever benefitting from Manning's spread offense and manning's threats.. not sure he can be better. so either Ball is going to be better or they will bring in other help.


you hit that one on the head.

I do not think they plan to run more, just that they want to be able to when they have to. something that was lacking at times last regular season and ALL OF the SUPERBOWL.

if they want to actually run the ball better instead of just talking about it, they should maybe get a couple runs in the playbook that aren't shotgun draws-- that would probably be more useful than changing out the backs. . .

[luckyseven]

if they want to actually run the ball better instead of just talking about it, they should maybe get a couple runs in the playbook that aren't shotgun draws-- that would probably be more useful than changing out the backs. . .

the key to your comment is IF.

I believe they want to run when they want to. so even IF Manning comes to the LOS and sees 8 in the box they can move the LOS enough to make that successful.

Once they have done that a few times then defenses have to totally respect the run from our club. they will not be able to clog the rightside and slow down the RB.

As much as John has been a run first HC in the past his transformation to a Manning HC has been great. But even PM knows he has to be able to run it. the defenses can not stop anything they do unless someone drops the ball.

[TXBRONC]

If we are in must win now mode then Moreno makes the most sense. His productivity will be hard to match because he does so many other things than most people realize. I think he had a fantastic season last year.

Well according Elway Denver isn't a win now mode as in Denver load up for just the small window of time they have with Manning. Moreno is replaceable. In fact I would say losing Moreno won't impact running game as badly as losing Dumervil impacted the pass rush.

[TXBRONC]

If the Broncos don't re-sign Moreno then they will draft a RB in round 4 or later.

Why the 4th round?

[CrazyHorse]

Why the 4th round?

Better value.

[dogfish]

Well according Elway Denver isn't a win now mode as in Denver load up for just the small window of time they have with Manning. Moreno is replaceable. In fact I would say losing Moreno won't impact running game as badly as losing Dumervil impacted the pass rush.

if things bounce wrong, i'm more worried about losing moreno having an impact on the passing game. . . i feel confident that ball can hold his own there after he showed real progress at the end of last year-- but the other guys are unknowns. . . doesn't mean they can't do it if called on, but it's not guaranteed, either. . . as well as moreno fits this offense, i certainly think he's worth having back if the price is right. . . which it should be in this market, but obviously my opinion of right may well not be the same as JFE's. . .

[Simple Jaded]

Nearly 1600 yards from scrimmage and 13 TDs are "easy" to replace? I don't know if Moreno will be back or not, but I think you're taking his productivity last season a bit for granted.

No, his thoroughly average skill set is easy to replace.

[BroncoWave]

No, his thoroughly average skill set is easy to replace.

I think you severely underrate his skillset in the passing game if you call it "thoroughly average".

[Northman]

if things bounce wrong, i'm more worried about losing moreno having an impact on the passing game. . . i feel confident that ball can hold his own there after he showed real progress at the end of last year-- but the other guys are unknowns. . . doesn't mean they can't do it if called on, but it's not guaranteed, either. . . as well as moreno fits this offense, i certainly think he's worth having back if the price is right. . . which it should be in this market, but obviously my opinion of right may well not be the same as JFE's. . .

Its alright doggy, if he doesnt come back i will console you. :cool:

[Mike]

if they want to actually run the ball better instead of just talking about it, they should maybe get a couple runs in the playbook that aren't shotgun draws-- that would probably be more useful than changing out the backs. . .

The problem is that Denver struggles throwing the ball when Manning is under center. So anytime he was there, it was probably a 90% chance or greater that Denver was going to run. Huge tipoff. Denver runs the shotgun so much because the oline, despite what people here may think, was a problem last year. Upgrade the oline, Manning won't have to run shotgun so much and it won't be a tipoff that they are running when he is under center.

[TXBRONC]

Its alright doggy, if he doesnt come back i will console you. :cool:

If I were Dog I might be just ever so slightly suspecious.

[TXBRONC]

The problem is that Denver struggles throwing the ball when Manning is under center. So anytime he was there, it was probably a 90% chance or greater that Denver was going to run. Huge tipoff. Denver runs the shotgun so much because the oline, despite what people here may think, was a problem last year. Upgrade the oline, Manning won't have to run shotgun so much and it won't be a tipoff that they are running when he is under center.

Good grief Mike the reason Denver uses the shotgun so much is because that's Manning is most comfortable with.

[TXBRONC]

Better value.

I would guess there will be just as good of value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

[VonDoom]

Legwold has an article on ESPN.com talking about this. Phillips is also mentioned. As far as Moreno, this is exactly what I and others were saying above:

But the Broncos have moved Montee Ball to the top of the depth chart at the position as they move to improve their run game overall. If Moreno were to return, it would be with the understanding, barring an injury, it would be in a reserve role.

"With a guy like Knowshon, who was the starter and would have to come back in a different role, would look at how he would handle that," Elway said.

http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/5823/broncos-still-open-to-phillips-moreno

[TXBRONC]

Legwold has an article on ESPN.com talking about this. Phillips is also mentioned. As far as Moreno, this is exactly what I and others were saying above:

But the Broncos have moved Montee Ball to the top of the depth chart at the position as they move to improve their run game overall. If Moreno were to return, it would be with the understanding, barring an injury, it would be in a reserve role.

"With a guy like Knowshon, who was the starter and would have to come back in a different role, would look at how he would handle that," Elway said.

http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/5823/broncos-still-open-to-phillips-moreno

I remember that with Phillips. The intent wasn't that he would be starter but rather that he would be playing mostly passing downs circumstances forced into the starting line up.

In Moreno's case that would be a tough pill to swallow going from to back up especially after having a very good year.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I remember that with Phillips. The intent wasn't that he would be starter but rather that he would be playing mostly passing downs circumstances forced into the starting line up.

In Moreno's case that would be a tough pill to swallow going from to back up especially after having a very good year.

If Knowshon accepts not being the starter, there are different things that could happen, which would move him up to starter - i.e. injuries, Ball not producing as a starter should, etc. Knowshon has been thru being removed from starter before.

[Northman]

If Knowshon wasnt given the starting position upon coming back to Denver i probably would not come back if i were him. That would be a slap in the face after the great year he had, it just sounds to me like Denver is ready to move forward with Ball as the starter and if (a big if) Moreno wants to come back he would have to do it as a backup. Personally, i dont see that happening in a FA year for him.

[Ravage!!!]

If Knowshon wasnt given the starting position upon coming back to Denver i probably would not come back if i were him. That would be a slap in the face after the great year he had, it just sounds to me like Denver is ready to move forward with Ball as the starter and if (a big if) Moreno wants to come back he would have to do it as a backup. Personally, i dont see that happening in a FA year for him.

Which is why I compared this situation to the situations where you replace the QB with the new rookie, and you don't see teams keeping the back-up. Different positions, but you still have the "incumbant" taking the back-up role that doesn't sit well with the player (normally) and many fans. Not to mention, there are people in the locker room that are friends with the older player, and that causes a divide. It's normally better if the team is ready to move on to a different starter, to let the player move on to a different team.

[TXBRONC]

If Knowshon accepts not being the starter, there are different things that could happen, which would move him up to starter - i.e. injuries, Ball not producing as a starter should, etc. Knowshon has been thru being removed from starter before.

I know he has and he may not want to go through that again. He had a career year so if I were him I be reluctant unless there no other option.

[Ravage!!!]

Nearly 1600 yards from scrimmage and 13 TDs are "easy" to replace? I don't know if Moreno will be back or not, but I think you're taking his productivity last season a bit for granted.

No, I'm not taking the production amassed by our RB, that was accumulated in the most prolific passing attack in NFL history, for granted.

I'm saying that considering Moreno's lack of speed (and he is slow), and lack of power (lets be honest, he isn't someone tht is going to bowl very many over), that many RBs could have amassed the same production given the same opportunity in that same offense.

[underrated29]

I know he has and he may not want to go through that again. He had a career year so if I were him I be reluctant unless there no other option.




Just curious my man, after this past year of knowshons, do you rank him any higher in terms of RBs and hands/catching?

[dogfish]

Its alright doggy, if he doesnt come back i will console you. :cool:

hold me, big fella. . . :laugh:

[luckyseven]

The problem is that Denver struggles throwing the ball when Manning is under center. So anytime he was there, it was probably a 90% chance or greater that Denver was going to run. Huge tipoff. Denver runs the shotgun so much because the oline, despite what people here may think, was a problem last year. Upgrade the oline, Manning won't have to run shotgun so much and it won't be a tipoff that they are running when he is under center.

Fwiw manning also likes the shotgun because he can see the field better and saves a second in the drop back. He can get the ball off faster.

Even with a much better OL he will take most snaps out of the shotgun.

[TXBRONC]

Just curious my man, after this past year of knowshons, do you rank him any higher in terms of RBs and hands/catching?

No. He's good but there a lot running backs who can do what he does. I think it's being over estimated what his receiving skills means to the offense.

[TXBRONC]

hold me, big fella. . . :laugh:

You two need to get a room. :laugh:

[luckyseven]

I remember years ago about Morenos nickname on the other boards being noshow

There was little if any support for him, a first round bust was used 50 times more than he is a good Rb and great out of the backfield.

How was it here back in those dark days of Mc D. Bet it was not much better.

[DenBronx]

Moreno was your best RB.


Agreed.

[DenBronx]

If Moreno comes back then I don't see how he isn't the starter still. Ball hasn't done anything to prove he is that guy yet. Plus, Manning is pass happy and Moreno is catch happy.

[Ravage!!!]

Moreno is catch ahppy because Manning is pass happy. Ball showed that he was the better runner.

[GEM]

Moreno is catch ahppy because Manning is pass happy. Ball showed that he was the better runner.

Moreno has always been a good pass catcher out of the backfield. That was not all Manning. We get it, you don't like the kid, but face it, if the price is cheap we are better with him here than with Ball and Hillman or Ball and Anderson. Don't let your personal feelings on him get in the way of reality.

[Simple Jaded]

I think you severely underrate his skillset in the passing game if you call it "thoroughly average".

Severely? He's got below average speed, quickness, size, power and vision, he's above average toughness, receiving and blocking, let's not even get into durability, it could go either way at this point in his career. If I'm selling him short it isn't severely.

[Simple Jaded]

If Moreno comes back then I don't see how he isn't the starter still. Ball hasn't done anything to prove he is that guy yet. Plus, Manning is pass happy and Moreno is catch happy.

Please, Ball was brought in to be a starter and let's not pretend Moreno is a clear cut starter on any team.

Maybe this notion is why the Broncos haven't made an attempt to bring him back, from everything I've read/heard they wanna hand it over to Ball. He's a better player anyway.

[DenBronx]

Please, Ball was brought in to be a starter and let's not pretend Moreno is a clear cut starter on any team.

Maybe this notion is why the Broncos haven't made an attempt to bring him back, from everything I've read/heard they wanna hand it over to Ball. He's a better player anyway.



Well Ball had a chance to win the job last year so what stopped him? Oh yeah that's right, Moreno out performed him. If Moreno does come back then what will be the excuse he if retains the starter position? Not saying Ball sucks or anything like that, I think he's a great #2 right now with potential to be the #1. But if he couldnt beat out Moreno then what does that say about him? Says he was a rookie with alot to learn still.....


And make no mistake. Ball is going to split time not matter if Moreno comes back or not.

[Ravage!!!]

Moreno has always been a good pass catcher out of the backfield. That was not all Manning. We get it, you don't like the kid, but face it, if the price is cheap we are better with him here than with Ball and Hillman or Ball and Anderson. Don't let your personal feelings on him get in the way of reality.

"Catch happy" doesn't refer to his ability to catch the ball. I've never discredited his pass catching abilities, but I think they are GREATLY exaggereted around here in attempts to pump up his skill set.

But I don't "dislike" the kid, I just don't think he's special. My personal feelings are pretty simple, he's nothing to write home about he isn't exciting, and he isn't a game breaker. THat's it. Having him on the team doesn't bother me in the least. Having a RB with as a STARTER, and his set of skills, DOES bother me because it's pretty boring. We certainly can't rely on him to carry the team in any fashion. THAT is the reality.

Ball proved by the end of the season that he was the better RB. With one year under his belt in learning blocking schemes and recognition, I just don't see a problem. Considering the fact that RB is the easiest position to replace, pining for a slow RB isn't something I do. I don't "dislike" Moreno in the least, I just don't have a strong emotional attachement to him. I would be MUCHMUCH more upset to lose a guy like Julius (whome I've only see play for a single season) than I would Moreno. At least JT is well above average at his position.

[Ravage!!!]

Well Ball had a chance to win the job last year so what stopped him? Oh yeah that's right, Moreno out performed him. If Moreno does come back then what will be the excuse he if retains the starter position? Not saying Ball sucks or anything like that, I think he's a great #2 right now with potential to be the #1. But if he couldnt beat out Moreno then what does that say about him? Says he was a rookie with alot to learn still.....


And make no mistake. Ball is going to split time not matter if Moreno comes back or not.

No matter who is the starter, they will split time because that is the new generation of the NFL. But Ball is the better RB, and just because he didn't start as a rookie in a pass-happy offense....where recognizing blocking and blitzing packages is the hardest part of the RB position...doesn't mean he's not the better player. It means he needed time.

[luckyseven]

Well Ball had a chance to win the job last year so what stopped him? Oh yeah that's right, Moreno out performed him. If Moreno does come back then what will be the excuse he if retains the starter position? Not saying Ball sucks or anything like that, I think he's a great #2 right now with potential to be the #1. But if he couldnt beat out Moreno then what does that say about him? Says he was a rookie with alot to learn still.....


And make no mistake. Ball is going to split time not matter if Moreno comes back or not.

You realize that ball was a rookie last year going into a VERY complex scheme.

That Moreno was listed as 3-4 string until the season started. When Ball and hillman were fond to be lacking in ability.

Only then was Moreno let out of his dog house. It was a celebrated story that he preserved.

But they would not have drafted those two if they thought Moreno was the future. They will also bring in another RB before TC. If not more.


I liked Moreno but he clearly was not a favored player from the minute he was drafted by the fans and further dropped when McD left and Elway took over.

I'm guessing the determining factor on whether to cut him was more monetary than do we have to carry him as a backup.

[DenBronx]

I like how Moreno who was listed as the 3rd or 4th stringer beat everyone else out to become the #1.

[luckyseven]

I like how Moreno who was listed as the 3rd or 4th stringer beat everyone else out to become the #1.

Yep that was neat, but hillman has butter fingers, could not clear the LOS with the ball.
Ball simply was not tuned into the scheme yet.

So Moreno got the promotion until late in the year, when Ball and even Anderson (occasionally) was sent into give moreno a blow.

If you noted in some of those games Ball stayed in to finish the series, even after moreno had caught his breath. he totaled 120 (4.7 YPC) carries and 20 passes. after he understood Manning and his scheme. and Moreno had 241(4.3) YPC) runs and 60 passes.

it is funny that if moreno was so great why he only had 2xs the carries that Ball did.

I think it is time to stop worrying about your RB, you can follow him where ever he lands. Odds are he will not be back in Denver if he is he will be a back up only.

[NightTerror218]

I like how Moreno who was listed as the 3rd or 4th stringer beat everyone else out to become the #1.

Yep that was neat, but hillman has butter fingers, could not clear the LOS with the ball.
Ball simply was not tuned into the scheme yet.

So Moreno got the promotion until late in the year, when Ball and even Anderson (occasionally) was sent into give moreno a blow.

If you noted in some of those games Ball stayed in to finish the series, even after moreno had caught his breath. he totaled 120 (4.7 YPC) carries and 20 passes. after he understood Manning and his scheme. and Moreno had 241(4.3) YPC) runs and 60 passes.

it is funny that if moreno was so great why he only had 2xs the carries that Ball did.

I think it is time to stop worrying about your RB, you can follow him where ever he lands. Odds are he will not be back in Denver if he is he will be a back up only.

Carries were not everything . Moreno was also in to block as well.

[GEM]

Moreno isn't taking #1, but he is a much better# 2 then any of the others. If he comes cheap, he is a better alternative. Its really not even close so not sure what the issue is. Pretty sure we all want Ball to be the dude, but we have to have a #2 and Moreno is the best option. As well, Moreno showed last season that he brings some fire snd passion to the offense.

[GEM]

Oh ffs...drop the follow your qb elsewhere shit. He is notr my rb, one season ago I hated the dude. But I am not blind to the fact that he is better than Hillman or Anderson. If the market drives down his price and we can get him cheap, is worth it to have him back Ball.

[luckyseven]

Carries were not everything . Moreno was also in to block as well.

do you really think so? as the year went on Manning trusted the rookie to pass protect for him also.

but if Ball is getting half of his carries what can you deduce from that he was probably on the field half as many times as moreno was or close to it.

they did not just trot Ball on to run the ball when it was a run down and distance.

[TXBRONC]

Well Ball had a chance to win the job last year so what stopped him? Oh yeah that's right, Moreno out performed him. If Moreno does come back then what will be the excuse he if retains the starter position? Not saying Ball sucks or anything like that, I think he's a great #2 right now with potential to be the #1. But if he couldnt beat out Moreno then what does that say about him? Says he was a rookie with alot to learn still.....


And make no mistake. Ball is going to split time not matter if Moreno comes back or not.

Did you see the last four to five weeks of the season because Ball was the better back.

[TXBRONC]

Moreno isn't taking #1, but he is a much better# 2 then any of the others. If he comes cheap, he is a better alternative. Its really not even close so not sure what the issue is. Pretty sure we all want Ball to be the dude, but we have to have a #2 and Moreno is the best option. As well, Moreno showed last season that he brings some fire snd passion to the offense.

GEM with season Moreno had I don't think he's going to want to come back to play second fiddle unless he has no other alternatives.

[luckyseven]

Moreno isn't taking #1, but he is a much better# 2 then any of the others. If he comes cheap, he is a better alternative. Its really not even close so not sure what the issue is. Pretty sure we all want Ball to be the dude, but we have to have a #2 and Moreno is the best option. As well, Moreno showed last season that he brings some fire snd passion to the offense.

yes he played well in his contract year. he had a heck of a year, but so far NO one wants him so that may be the Manning raises all boats more than Moreno is great.

but you have to admit that many fans were wanting him cut last TC.


Oh ffs...drop the follow your qb elsewhere !@#$%^&*. He is notr my rb, one season ago I hated the dude. But I am not blind to the fact that he is better than Hillman or Anderson. If the market drives down his price and we can get him cheap, is worth it to have him back Ball.


I rest my point MOST fans wanted him gone they had the hots for Hillman, he was going to be take it to the house every time he touched the ball.

I think Moreno burned his bridges in some matter with John E, that or the coaching staff said not interested at almost any price. they know what he can do and stiffed him.

maybe they sign him to a year vet min contract IF they do not find someone in the draft.

he would be better than Hillman IMO but Anderson intriges me

[MOtorboat]

Are we really certain Moreno is the No. 2 if he, in fact, actually returns?

That apparently is the consensus opinion from posters in the thread, but I don't think that is necessarily true.

[GEM]

GEM with season Moreno had I don't think he's going to want to come back to play second fiddle unless he has no other alternatives.

No other teams want him. His market price and position drop each day no teams show interest.

[DenBronx]

I think it is time to stop worrying about your RB, you can follow him where ever he lands. Odds are he will not be back in Denver if he is he will be a back up only.



John Fox just said the team would be open to bringing back Moreno and Phillips. Not only are we discussing a Bronco who was drafted by us, was the starter last year on a record breaking offense but a player who could potentially come back.


I know your new on the forums but those kinds of statements are not going to gain you any respect among veteran fans/posters around here.

[GEM]

He started playing wel prior to his contact year. He was playing well prior top his acl. But forget facts. :lol:

[DenBronx]

Are we really certain Moreno is the No. 2 if he, in fact, actually returns?

That apparently is the consensus opinion from posters in the thread, but I don't think that is necessarily true.


Agreed.


Competition speaks for itself and let the best man win. We can only go by what happened the year prior.

[GEM]

Damn phone and auto correct.

[TXBRONC]

Are we really certain Moreno is the No. 2 if he, in fact, actually returns?

That apparently is the consensus opinion from posters in the thread, but I don't think that is necessarily true.

There is an article refered to in this thread with a quote Elway saying Moreno would have to accept a different role if he came. Granted that doesn't mean that he couldn't end up the the starter. That said Elway hasn't made much of an effort to bring him back.

[DenBronx]

He started playing wel prior to his contact year. He was playing well prior top his acl. But forget facts. :lol:

I think he started turning it on the year before last. He was benched something like 8 games and came in late in the season but played very very good. Last year was his first full year with Manning and from what I saw he fits the mold in what Manning likes.

He blocks well, catches well, was hitting the right lanes for good yardage and showed nothing but heart and passion. Moreno also seemed to embrace being a leader to these younger backs. Can't say enough good things about him. Many of us wrote him off as a bust but I like how he turned it around. Just think Moreno is perfectly geared for an offense like this. He didnt fit what we were trying to do when we had Orton, we needed a workhorse for that.

[TXBRONC]

No other teams want him. His market price and position drop each day no teams show interest.

As of right now it sure doesn't look like Denver wants him either.

[DenBronx]

There is an article refered to in this thread with a quote Elway saying Moreno would have to accept a different role if he came. Granted that doesn't mean that he couldn't end up the the starter. That said Elway hasn't made much of an effort to bring him back.


Moreno is a humble dude and I am sure he would agree to that. But you're right....he still might end up being the starter. Depends on if these other RBs take advantage of their opportunities. Hillman actually got the first crack and it was clear he wasnt ready. When Moreno got his chance he never looked back.....he was more than ready for it.


If Moreno comes back though.....I don't see how anything differant changes, expect maybe feed Ball more carries than we did last year to see what he's got. If Ball breakouts then I am sure no one will complain.

[tomjonesrocks]

Moreno is a humble dude and I am sure he would agree to that.

I say this as someone who Moreno has won over-- but dude was busted with a DUI rolling in a Bentley with "Sauced" plates.

I don't get on my high horse with DUIs, but "humble" and "Bentley" don't go together.

I hope he can somehow be back--but Moreno "humble"?

[DenBronx]

As of right now it sure doesn't look like Denver wants him either.


Actually, it does look like Denvers wants him back. According to ESPN, Jeff Legwold and John Elway we do want him back. If we had a couple more mill to work with then I bet Moreno would already have a new deal. Elways no dummy, he knows the markets soft for Moreno, as well as all other veteran RBs. MJD doesnt even have a deal yet. I bet we head into the draft and wait for a bargain after it.


Broncos still open to Phillips, Moreno


ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Denver Broncos aren't in a rush to sign any more checks in free agency.

But they do have their eyes, and minds, open when it comes to players still on the market. John Elway, the team's executive vice president of football operations and general manager, wouldn't rule out the return of some of the team's free agents. In particular, he said he would be willing to consider running back Knowshon Moreno and defensive end Shaun Phillips.

Both veterans are unsigned and would have to accept their roles with the Broncos if they came back.

READ FULL ARTICLE:
http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/5823/broncos-still-open-to-phillips-moreno

[DenBronx]

I say this as someone who Moreno has won over-- but dude was busted with a DUI rolling in a Bentley with "Sauced" plates.

I don't get on my high horse with DUIs, but "humble" and "Bentley" don't go together.


Doesnt mean he isnt humble as a player and in the locker room. For him to keep his mouth shut and just do his job after getting benched showed humility to me. Regardless of what the plates say on his car.