PDA

View Full Version : The Current state of our Denver Defense (Mar 13 2014)



artie_dale
03-13-2014, 09:54 AM
Prior to free agency, even with the many releases on Defense (DRC, Champ, Woodyard, Ayers, etc...), we all still believed we had some talent left (especially in Von, Harris, & Moore), but lets just see what our new Broncos bring to the table.


A Healthy Moore + TJ Ward = pretty damn good safety corps that is good enough to stay with the better TEs or RBs

A healthy Harris + a healthy Aqib Talib = one above average CB and one of THE BEST shut down CBs who will shut down our opponent's best rcvr (WR or TE)

A healthy Von Miller + a healthy DeMarcus Ware = edge pass rushers from hell (TWO handfuls)

We all loved what Travethon brought to the table and Irving showed spurts in the latter part of the season and Chris Carter still has good potential (at least in my eyes)...

Let that sink in.

Now, just picture this... Our offense putting up nearly the same pts (if we average 28 pts a game) as last season and our opponents being forced to pass against that setup above.


Yes, the key word is "healthy", but boy the possibilities.

While the health issues always concern me, I don't bother letting it make my glass half empty. My glass is definitely half full.

Buff
03-13-2014, 10:00 AM
I am cautiously optimistic - love the new talent... But man we have a ton of health question marks.

Ravage!!!
03-13-2014, 10:08 AM
I am cautiously optimistic - love the new talent... But man we have a ton of health question marks.

Yeah.. Von won't be back at 100% early in the season. Harris? Who knows how he will recover. Then we don't even know if Moore will every be able to recover from his injury. Then we have Wolf, who is suffering from something serious and we dont' know if he'll come back. We still have a HUGE hole at MLB (imo).

I LOVE the additions, and I'm hoping that he injury bug doesn't hit us this coming season like it did last....because we sure could use a break.

artie_dale
03-13-2014, 10:30 AM
Yeah.. Von won't be back at 100% early in the season. Harris? Who knows how he will recover. Then we don't even know if Moore will every be able to recover from his injury. Then we have Wolf, who is suffering from something serious and we dont' know if he'll come back. We still have a HUGE hole at MLB (imo).

I LOVE the additions, and I'm hoping that he injury bug doesn't hit us this coming season like it did last....because we sure could use a break.

Yeah, my realistic expectations is that we do not rush these guys back so when it matters most (the 2nd half of the season) is when we'll need to hit our stride. I've accepted that teams can win Super Bowls with up to 8 regular season loses. I am going to keep an eye on how the team plays in those losses and hope for a healthy team by the time we reach week 9 or 10 (heck, even week 12).

BigDaddyBronco
03-13-2014, 11:45 AM
Prior to free agency, even with the many releases on Defense (DRC, Champ, Woodyard, Ayers, etc...), we all still believed we had some talent left (especially in Von, Harris, & Moore), but lets just see what our new Broncos bring to the table.


A Healthy Moore + TJ Ward = pretty damn good safety corps that is good enough to stay with the better TEs or RBs

A healthy Harris + a healthy Aqib Talib = one above average CB and one of THE BEST shut down CBs who will shut down our opponent's best rcvr (WR or TE)

A healthy Von Miller + a healthy DeMarcus Ware = edge pass rushers from hell (TWO handfuls)

We all loved what Travethon brought to the table and Irving showed spurts in the latter part of the season and Chris Carter still has good potential (at least in my eyes)...

Let that sink in.

Now, just picture this... Our offense putting up nearly the same pts (if we average 28 pts a game) as last season and our opponents being forced to pass against that setup above.


Yes, the key word is "healthy", but boy the possibilities.

While the health issues always concern me, I don't bother letting it make my glass half empty. My glass is definitely half full.

Healthy is the key word. Here is what I'm worried about.

S - TJ Ward, Moore, Nacho, and Q Carter, also have Bruton and Omar Boldin -- Moore is recovering from something that could have taken his leg or even his life, he might not be back. Carter has a hard time being healthy and might not be worth a shit (hasn't played in a long time). Nacho will be a backup to Ward. Hopefully Bruton plays ST exclusively. Overall we should be better, but maybe not entirely fixed.

CB - Talib, Harris, K. Webster, Tony Carter, someone else eventually - Talib has averaged something like 13 games a year throughout his career and was dinged up at times last year. I think he has been a hippy lettuce fan in the past as well which might be a bad thing now that he lives in Denver. Didn't Harris blow out an ACL? Why do we think he'll be ready this season? Maybe in November or December. Hopefully they get someone in the draft and get a vet body to provide depth until Harris is ready.

LB - Von, Trevathan, Irving, Johnson, B. Marshall - Von is recovering from an ACL, but Irving can fill in until he is ready. Johnson and Marshall are ST players. We really need a MLB or two. Draft one and get a vet I guess.

DE - Wolfe, Ware, Q. Smith, M. Jackson - Uh oh. Wolfe is recovering from a spinal injury, says he is good to go, I hope he is. Q. Smith is coming back from an ACL and has never played. Hope he is a beast. Ware hasn't really been healthy for the last 3 years. He is a baller and will play through injuries, but it cripled him last year. I hope he isn't slowing down too much. Malik Jackson is the man.

DT - T. Knighton, Big Vick, S. Williams, Unrein, S. Fua - Knighton = total beast but he wanted more money, hope he doesn't mope. Williams and Unrein are fine and do their part. Big Vick is another health concern. He dislocated a hip. That is pretty ****** up and he might have a hard time coming back. I think Fua is camp fodder. If big Vick comes back we are fine here.

So we have a couple guys who are coming back from ACL's that we shouldn't count on at the start of the season. Some older guys who have had injury issues (some pretty severe) and a young safety who had a really scary issue. If they come back healthy we should be improved....

CoachChaz
03-13-2014, 11:50 AM
Depth is an issue

artie_dale
03-13-2014, 11:55 AM
I know it's not possible, but Charles "Peanut" Tillman left Tampa without a contract. I love this guy. He was banged up a bit this last season too and is probably seeking a big payday (which is why it's probably impossible for us) but man-o-man would it be fun to have his turnover producing butt on our team.

BigDaddyBronco
03-13-2014, 11:56 AM
I know it's not possible, but Charles "Peanut" Tillman left Tampa without a contract. I love this guy. He was banged up a bit this last season too and is probably seeking a big payday (which is why it's probably impossible for us) but man-o-man would it be fun to have his turnover producing butt on our team.

Having Talib, Tillman, and Harris would be awesome.

topscribe
03-13-2014, 12:17 PM
As I mentioned elsewhere, Elway just the same as said in his most recent interview
with Dave Logan that our worries are all but over regarding Moore and Wolfe. He
said Moore is almost 100%, and Wolfe looks fine now.
.

artie_dale
03-13-2014, 12:30 PM
As I mentioned elsewhere, Elway just the same as said in his most recent interview
with Dave Logan that our worries are all but over regarding Moore and Wolfe. He
said Moore is almost 100%, and Wolfe looks fine now.
.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Updates-on-Moore-Wolfe-Miller-Harris-Jr/3156c32a-7728-44a4-a006-d59a6d126b93

WORD!

Ziggy
03-13-2014, 12:32 PM
I'm not worried about CB. Talib and Harris are fine. Kayvon has a year under his belt now and can learn from a physical corner like Talib. Elway stated when he drafted Kayvon that one of the reasons they grabbed him was for his size and physicality. He should be much better this season, although I think he did fine as a rookie when he wasn't made to play zone. Hopefully JDR goes to more of a man D in the secondary to play to our corner's strengths.

MLB is my only concern. The Broncos still need that man in the middle, and he needs to be good in coverage. Smith would be a perfect fit. Other than that, this D is good to go. It's a lot more physical D, with a lot more attitude just with the 3 guys that were signed. We also added a ton of leadership.

Poet
03-13-2014, 12:36 PM
Tillman has been poor to average in coverage his entire career. As soon as he has to step out of a cover two scheme he gets burned. My point is that his worth is going to be entirely predicated on how much zone coverage you guys run. So, uhh, how much zone-coverage do you guys run?

CoachChaz
03-13-2014, 12:37 PM
CB's are like currency in this league...you simply cant ever have enough. Sitting still with Talib, Harris, Webster and (choke) Carter is a very bad idea

artie_dale
03-13-2014, 12:38 PM
I'm not worried about CB. Talib and Harris are fine. Kayvon has a year under his belt now and can learn from a physical corner like Talib. Elway stated when he drafted Kayvon that one of the reasons they grabbed him was for his size and physicality. He should be much better this season, although I think he did fine as a rookie when he wasn't made to play zone. Hopefully JDR goes to more of a man D in the secondary to play to our corner's strengths.

MLB is my only concern. The Broncos still need that man in the middle, and he needs to be good in coverage. Smith would be a perfect fit. Other than that, this D is good to go. It's a lot more physical D, with a lot more attitude just with the 3 guys that were signed. We also added a ton of leadership.

Yes! "Attitude" is what I realized on my drive to work this morning listening to sports talk radio. I always thought that Champ was sometimes too quiet of a leader when we needed a "rah rah" guy every now and then. I think Talib can be that "rah rah" guy now and DeMarcus can be that quiet-lead-by-example leader.

artie_dale
03-13-2014, 12:39 PM
Tillman has been poor to average in coverage his entire career. As soon as he has to step out of a cover two scheme he gets burned. My point is that his worth is going to be entirely predicated on how much zone coverage you guys run. So, uhh, how much zone-coverage do you guys run?

I think it'll be obvious how effective Talib's technique is, so much so that I'm sure the other younger CBs would be willing to either learn it or shore up what they already know.

Poet
03-13-2014, 12:49 PM
I think it'll be obvious how effective Talib's technique is, so much so that I'm sure the other younger CBs would be willing to either learn it or shore up what they already know.

What?

NightTerror218
03-13-2014, 12:52 PM
Harris had partial tear i believe that is why his recovery is expected to be less than Miller's. Miller I am worried about the most but I think he is a freak and will bounce back fast. Q. Smith has had almost 2 seasons to heal and cant wait to see what he brings.

Compartment syndrome is serious when it is not fixed immediately. He should be fine after some rehab of the leg muscle. Which he was suppose to be close to being back in January just was not quite there yet. So I am optimistic about him for train g camp being ready.

MLB is a concern. I think we will draft one but a stop gap will be signed.

Wolfe is a general concern until we see him on field.

Overall we will get healthier as the season goes on and I just hope we do not make a ton of changes on D will new personal and stick to our schemes and tailor new guys to it. Keep some consistency. I hope we do not have an injury plagued season again. I am excited D line is deep. OLB has some depth. Secondary is a lil thin for my liking but lets see how they do.

VonDoom
03-13-2014, 12:54 PM
I'm not worried about CB. Talib and Harris are fine. Kayvon has a year under his belt now and can learn from a physical corner like Talib. Elway stated when he drafted Kayvon that one of the reasons they grabbed him was for his size and physicality. He should be much better this season, although I think he did fine as a rookie when he wasn't made to play zone. Hopefully JDR goes to more of a man D in the secondary to play to our corner's strengths.

MLB is my only concern. The Broncos still need that man in the middle, and he needs to be good in coverage. Smith would be a perfect fit. Other than that, this D is good to go. It's a lot more physical D, with a lot more attitude just with the 3 guys that were signed. We also added a ton of leadership.

I think we need another CB, either a cheap vet or rookie, but I'm glad you brought up Webster. I've said this here a while back, but I think he's going to be much improved next year. A whole year under your belt can make a big difference, as can a full offseason program. He's big and physical, as you said, and Elway obviously saw something in him to spend a third rounder on him. Not all rookies produce immediately, and Sly and Ball were coming on towards the end of the year. I didn't care for Webster last year, but let's not all base an opinion on the guy on his rookie season.

CoachChaz
03-13-2014, 01:03 PM
I thought Webster had some moments where he looked good last year and I think he can develop into a solid player. The one negative is that his mentor is now gone.

But either way, we definitely need to get some depth in house. I think another vet AND something via the draft

artie_dale
03-13-2014, 01:06 PM
What?

Talib, Sherman, Revis, DRC, all play DB in a way that looks physical (because it is) but in a way that they don't get a lot of flags. Talib is an example that it works and is effective. The younger Denver DBs will probably learn from it.

OrangeHoof
03-13-2014, 07:43 PM
We need a healthy d-line and some run stoppers. Hopefully, the DTs provide this and I am hoping that we can still add a stud MLB and another pass-rusher. Fox and Del Rio make for a good pair to build a defense. I hope they stick around.

Jsteve01
03-13-2014, 08:08 PM
I'm very excited about Webster. He's another guy that was hampered by injury and scheme. With Harris and Talib starting, I can't imagine a scenario where we play nearly as much zone as we did last year and this plays to all of their strengths.

toodles_belle
03-13-2014, 10:00 PM
If the reports are true that browner just signed with the pats, we're screwed. Revis + browner.. that's a REALLY good secondary!! damn

MOtorboat
03-13-2014, 10:08 PM
If the reports are true that browner just signed with the pats, we're screwed. Revis + browner.. that's a REALLY good secondary!! damn

Agent is denying it.

And I'm not worried. Because our secondary is just as good and their wide receivers suck balls.

toodles_belle
03-13-2014, 10:42 PM
Agent is denying it.

And I'm not worried. Because our secondary is just as good and their wide receivers suck balls.

I'm a little bit worried, but not overly worried. Although I'd feel much better if browner signed with the redskins or something. Plus he does have that 4 game suspension. We'll see. I have confidence in our defense. the 3 new guys plus the current ones getting healthy.

Edelman is visiting SF tomorrow. I don't know what BB's plan is with the pats. It could be really good or really bad.

TXBRONC
03-13-2014, 10:55 PM
Harris had partial tear i believe that is why his recovery is expected to be less than Miller's. Miller I am worried about the most but I think he is a freak and will bounce back fast. Q. Smith has had almost 2 seasons to heal and cant wait to see what he brings.

Compartment syndrome is serious when it is not fixed immediately. He should be fine after some rehab of the leg muscle. Which he was suppose to be close to being back in January just was not quite there yet. So I am optimistic about him for train g camp being ready.

MLB is a concern. I think we will draft one but a stop gap will be signed.

Wolfe is a general concern until we see him on field.

Overall we will get healthier as the season goes on and I just hope we do not make a ton of changes on D will new personal and stick to our schemes and tailor new guys to it. Keep some consistency. I hope we do not have an injury plagued season again. I am excited D line is deep. OLB has some depth. Secondary is a lil thin for my liking but lets see how they do.

I heard that Von's acl tear wasn't severe.

NightTerror218
03-13-2014, 11:01 PM
Harris had partial tear i believe that is why his recovery is expected to be less than Miller's. Miller I am worried about the most but I think he is a freak and will bounce back fast. Q. Smith has had almost 2 seasons to heal and cant wait to see what he brings.

Compartment syndrome is serious when it is not fixed immediately. He should be fine after some rehab of the leg muscle. Which he was suppose to be close to being back in January just was not quite there yet. So I am optimistic about him for train g camp being ready.

MLB is a concern. I think we will draft one but a stop gap will be signed.

Wolfe is a general concern until we see him on field.

Overall we will get healthier as the season goes on and I just hope we do not make a ton of changes on D will new personal and stick to our schemes and tailor new guys to it. Keep some consistency. I hope we do not have an injury plagued season again. I am excited D line is deep. OLB has some depth. Secondary is a lil thin for my liking but lets see how they do.

I heard that Von's acl tear wasn't severe.

More severe the harris but its still an ACL and takes a lot of time. He will be back but how long until he is 100%

luckyseven
03-13-2014, 11:06 PM
I think we need another CB, either a cheap vet or rookie, but I'm glad you brought up Webster. I've said this here a while back, but I think he's going to be much improved next year. A whole year under your belt can make a big difference, as can a full offseason program. He's big and physical, as you said, and Elway obviously saw something in him to spend a third rounder on him. Not all rookies produce immediately, and Sly and Ball were coming on towards the end of the year. I didn't care for Webster last year, but let's not all base an opinion on the guy on his rookie season.

I thought he did pretty good considering..

the game slows down a lot after being on the field as much as he was last year.

TXBRONC
03-13-2014, 11:12 PM
More severe the harris but its still an ACL and takes a lot of time. He will be back but how long until he is 100%

That's true for both of them.

luckyseven
03-13-2014, 11:13 PM
We need a healthy d-line and some run stoppers. Hopefully, the DTs provide this and I am hoping that we can still add a stud MLB and another pass-rusher. Fox and Del Rio make for a good pair to build a defense. I hope they stick around.

there is no reason to think that Pot roast, Williams maybe vickerson will be able to keep the LOS stable, throw in Wolfe and Jackson the is pretty stout against the run.. last year tied for #7 and we were improving moreso in the last part of the season. We held some pretty good runners to a lot less than their averages. The one thing that hurt our averages last year was when running QB's broke contain.

I think with Ware and Miller on the field will cut down on containment issues.

TXBRONC
03-13-2014, 11:15 PM
I thought he did pretty good considering..

the game slows down a lot after being on the field as much as he was last year.

I think Chaz put t best when he said something to the effect that Webster showed flashes last year he might eventually make solid corner.

Bosco
03-14-2014, 06:50 PM
I'm still waiting for the people who tell us that Moore is a "good" safety to show me a single impact play he has made for his team in 3 years.*

(Preferably from a single high spot, but in fairness to his fanboys who might have trouble there, any impact play will suffice.)

NightTerror218
03-14-2014, 07:06 PM
I'm still waiting for the people who tell us that Moore is a "good" safety to show me a single impact play he has made for his team in 3 years.*

(Preferably from a single high spot, but in fairness to his fanboys who might have trouble there, any impact play will suffice.)

Look at moore his rookie season in the preseason he laid out a WR but got a penalty. He was fined and the team chipped in and paid it for him. Dawkins and bailey were main ones.

Sept 5th 2013 look at hit on dallas Clark to force incomplete pass.

tomjonesrocks
03-14-2014, 07:09 PM
Wow--what a reach. An "impact play" in preseason?

And that play pretty much got in his head and derailed his whole first season.

Bosco
03-14-2014, 07:26 PM
Look at moore his rookie season in the preseason he laid out a WR but got a penalty. He was fined and the team chipped in and paid it for him. Dawkins and bailey were main ones. You mean kinda similar to the one against Pittsburgh in 2012 where he gave them a free first down (with us ahead by only one point) as they were driving down the field because he went full retard and smashed a receiver in the head?

Impact plays for the other team.


Sept 5th 2013 look at hit on dallas Clark to force incomplete pass. I wouldn't go as far as calling that an "impact" play.