PDA

View Full Version : Broncos seek free agents, including top-flight pass rusher



Denver Native (Carol)
03-06-2014, 03:48 PM
Once again, John Elway can change the Broncos' momentum.

Not with his arm or legs, as he used to, but through his offseason transactions as the Broncos' general manager.

Melancholy has hovered about the Broncos. Yes, they reached the Super Bowl, but nothing sends a community to the doldrums quite like getting blown out from the opening snap.

That makes two years in a row the Broncos have suffered a rotten ending to an otherwise outstanding season. The prospect of starting over at 0-0 seems more daunting than exciting.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25285268/broncos-seek-free-agents-including-top-flight-pass

DenBronx
03-06-2014, 03:50 PM
Jared Allen for the win!

DenBronx
03-06-2014, 03:53 PM
Wolfe at LDE and Allen at RDE.

Two white bad asses rushing the edges. Tell me what else isnt there to like about that?

MOtorboat
03-06-2014, 03:58 PM
Wolfe at LDE and Allen at RDE.

Two white bad asses rushing the edges. Tell me what else isnt there to like about that?

I'm convinced that Wolfe is only really an asset in the scheme they play when miller is in the lineup and he's lined up inside Miller in a 3, 4 or 5 tech. Out wide in a regular 4-3 I don't particularly like him at all. Jared Allen opposite Miller would be awesome in that 4-3 over technique. I'll take Allen in just about any formation, though.

CoachChaz
03-06-2014, 04:22 PM
Allen if they are looking short term...Bennett or Johnson if it's long term.

I agree on Wolfe. If Miller isnt in there...he disappears.

underrated29
03-06-2014, 04:31 PM
I want Allen at Lde and Phillips at rde. Von will do his trying and Wolfe at dt

DenBronx
03-06-2014, 04:35 PM
Wolfe seemed to disappear after he injured his spine then had siezures. If he comes back 100% then we will be in good shape.

Miller makes everyone else look better because there is only so many guys the OL can block. Of course Wolfes production goes up when Miller is playing. They compliment each other.

DenBronx
03-06-2014, 04:37 PM
Now, having Wolfe and Miller and Allen and Phillips on the other side would be freakishly hard to stop. The QBs would shit their pants.

Ravage!!!
03-06-2014, 04:42 PM
The Chief fans HATED losing Allen in FA. It would be such a FUN victory to listen to their cries if he comes to Denver.

Slick
03-06-2014, 04:43 PM
I am really curious about which of the Bronco free agents gets resigned. There's quite a few guys from other teams I would love to see us get.

I think Elway wants to try to do better than Phillips and Ayers.

weazel
03-06-2014, 04:45 PM
I wouldnt count on Wolfe just yet

Slick
03-06-2014, 04:52 PM
I wouldnt count on Wolfe just yet

Yeah. I hope when John Fox said he giddy from moving magnets around on the player/positional depth chart, he wasn't moving Wolfe, Harris, Miller, or Q Carters magnets into the starting positions.

broncohead
03-06-2014, 05:13 PM
Both Wolfe and Miller made our defense better. Wolfe was battling injuries and think he would have had a good season if it wasnt for the injury regardless if Miller was there. Hope Wolfe can come back healthy but the FO should plan like he won't

dogfish
03-06-2014, 05:18 PM
I think Elway wants to try to do better than Phillips and Ayers.

how about philips and allen?

:defense:

slim
03-06-2014, 05:20 PM
I'll take Allen in just about any formation, though.

I bet you would.

Slick
03-06-2014, 05:23 PM
how about philips and allen?

:defense:

That would be nice. I don't know if I like Allen as much as you do though. Of the Vikings action I saw while watching redzone this season, I watched Allen blow run assignment after run assignment as he blazed his way to the QB while the running back cut inside of him for big gains.

Lancane
03-07-2014, 12:56 AM
Bennett is using free agency to get the most he can from Seattle, and the mere fact that money is key...no thanks. Michael Johnson is an interesting prospect, but he'll be competing with Bennett in a market that will set the standard for Pass Rushers. Even Jared Allen will be in the mix, and while I respect him the one factor that causes me to shy away from him is his age, despite what he did this past season, age eventually takes it's toll and he'd be a stop gap. I believe Denver should go after Lamarr Houston, move him to LDE, he has the size and then if you can, you re-sign Shaun Phillips to man the RDE position who should come cheaper then Allen, Johnson and especially Bennett. With Jackson backing up Houston, Smith behind Phillips, they could also probably bring back Jeremy Mincey to be a third option at both positions and as rotation depth. It's better then signing just one of the bigger names and not having enough to really protect the position or have depth.

Cornerback is more simple, Denver needs to re-sign DRC, Harris is not a great corner but sufficient so hopefully he returns but the Broncos could walk into the 2014 season with them as the starters and it doesn't look so grim. Carter is replaceable but Webster is in the wings and Denver could easily draft someone or sign someone for the fourth spot. I believe safety is in a similar position, we could do worse then Ihenacho and Moore, but I am sure the Broncos want to improve, Byrd is who they should go after but being that the Broncos are thriftier, Louis Delmas makes sense, concerns about concussions is a given, but I love the wood he lays on players, the boy can hit. Byrd would be better because he is a better cover safety, which Moore was suppose to be. Either way Denver has options.

Obviously mike linebacker has been their biggest concern so far, they wasted no time meeting with Jackson and Tatupu, I would like to see them go after Perry Riley of Washington, but Denver could go with a low risk, high reward addition like Tatupu or Connor and then taking someone early in the draft.

luckyseven
03-07-2014, 01:06 AM
That would be nice. I don't know if I like Allen as much as you do though. Of the Vikings action I saw while watching redzone this season, I watched Allen blow run assignment after run assignment as he blazed his way to the QB while the running back cut inside of him for big gains.

sounds a lot like doom used to do and then Miller did that his first season. so lazer focused onto QB they simply blocked him out of the paly.

Slick
03-07-2014, 08:50 AM
sounds a lot like doom used to do and then Miller did that his first season. so lazer focused onto QB they simply blocked him out of the paly.

True. However, I posted that like I knew what defense was called. For all I know, his job on that play was to get to the QB and so eone else had the run assignment behind him on that play.

I'd love it if we got Allen but I have learned over the years to never get my hopes up for Denver to sign or draft a particular player because I always wind up disappointed.

CoachChaz
03-07-2014, 09:35 AM
Vets that want to win now are going to be our likely focus and where we'll have the most success. I was reading that D'Qwell Jackson chose Indy because he wanted to go to a team that had a plan for the future with their front office, coaching and QB. I think that is legit and the fact that we dont know what we have after Manning retires could be a deciding factor for younger players.

Jaded
03-07-2014, 11:08 AM
I think/hope Allen is the first call they make, according to Klit they will be calling though.

There's just something about the idea of Phillips as a starter at RDE that I don't like, I like him but he should be Von insurance and part time player. If Houston lands in Denver I would hope it's to start at RDE with Jackson or Wolfe at LDE, I love this idea.

I wouldn't mind Everson Griffen at RDE either, as he could move inside to make room for Phillips and/or Smith in sub-packages.

dogfish
03-07-2014, 03:20 PM
Vets that want to win now are going to be our likely focus and where we'll have the most success. I was reading that D'Qwell Jackson chose Indy because he wanted to go to a team that had a plan for the future with their front office, coaching and QB. I think that is legit and the fact that we dont know what we have after Manning retires could be a deciding factor for younger players.

if d'qwell's not a vet in win now mode, we better be targetting some old guys. . . :laugh:

CoachChaz
03-07-2014, 03:27 PM
if d'qwell's not a vet in win now mode, we better be targetting some old guys. . . :laugh:

The point is he knows what the team's vision is for the 4 years of his contract. He can see they are a young team with a bright future. Denver cant say that and it probably plays into players decisions.


That being said...I would have turned him down at the 5.5 mil Indy is paying him

silkamilkamonico
03-07-2014, 05:09 PM
Indy offers jackson an opportunity to win now and for the rest of his career.

Denver offers him a chance to win the next 2 years max. Maybe just 1.

Lancane
03-07-2014, 05:24 PM
Indy offers jackson an opportunity to win now and for the rest of his career.

Denver offers him a chance to win the next 2 years max. Maybe just 1.

And that will be a continuous problem so long as they keep signing geriatric veterans to start at key positions and not signing younger veterans to long-term deals.

dogfish
03-07-2014, 06:00 PM
meh. . . you guys could absolutely be right about jackson, but i don't for a second buy it as indicative of our overall status. . . we're a destination franchise, as much as there is such a thing. . . and i think you're wasting your time if you expect us to make a serious bid at guys like michael johnson, who are going to get those long-term, high-dollar deals. . . i really don't think that's our mode now, aside from potentially retaining DRC on that type of deal-- the bulk of our big spending will be in house over the next couple of years. . . as for free agency, i'm pretty sure the FO wants to bring in win-now type vets on shorter deals. . . it just makes sense to play out the string with manning, while hopefully drafting and developing the next core. . .

Jaded
03-07-2014, 06:15 PM
Those short free agent deals are what's going to make extending core players possible, I like the plan.

Ziggy
03-07-2014, 06:37 PM
Give me Lamaar Houston. He's a beast against the run and a very underrated pass rusher.

luckyseven
03-07-2014, 11:56 PM
True. However, I posted that like I knew what defense was called. For all I know, his job on that play was to get to the QB and so eone else had the run assignment behind him on that play.

I'd love it if we got Allen but I have learned over the years to never get my hopes up for Denver to sign or draft a particular player because I always wind up disappointed..

Yet in his second year that rarely happened he learned how to read the run first while getting to the QB.

His run stopping and tackling for loss improved dramatically.

As yoi said perhaps he was told to only pass rush, but do you really think that.

DenBronx
03-08-2014, 12:08 AM
Give me Lamaar Houston. He's a beast against the run and a very underrated pass rusher.


6 sacks is underrated? More like overrated.


He is averaging about 4 sacks a year. Robert Ayers says hello.


Meanwhile, Jarred Allen wants to put a team contending for a trophy over the top.

Lancane
03-08-2014, 05:18 AM
6 sacks is underrated? More like overrated.


He is averaging about 4 sacks a year. Robert Ayers says hello.


Meanwhile, Jarred Allen wants to put a team contending for a trophy over the top.

Rushing the passer is more then simple sacks, you know this DB. Ayers and Houston are so far different then one another it's a joke to even compare the two, take a deeper look before you start slamming a player simply because you got a 'hard-on' for another - it's below you bro. I like Allen, but his play has declined, and he'll only be a stopgap for a championship run, whereas Houston could be had for five or six years and help sure up the position for that length of time. I get that everyone loves his sack totals, the man is without a doubt a first ballot HOFer...but how about these stats, Denver was tied for 13th in sacks in 2013, the Seahawk's were tied for 8th, New England was 5th, Carolina, Buffalo, St. Louis and New Orleans round out the top five with New England. Even better, Denver was the second best pass rushing defense in the post-season, behind San Francisco...Seattle was tied for 4th. Our problem isn't rushing the passer, we could literally start the season with the same squad and be about as successful, where we need to improve is in overall toughness, aggressiveness and in causing turnovers, Allen is pretty good at causing turnovers but so is Houston.

And I hate the continuous bull**** comments by posters that Shaun Phillips was brought in to make up for what we lost in Miller, he was signed to replace what we lost in Dumervil not Miller, he didn't lineup in Miller's position and he was thrust into the starting role due to Ayer's lazy *** and he was statistically 4th best against the run, not yet convinced, well how about this - Jared Allen only had a sack and half up on Phillips, they both had the same number of passes defended, both had 2 forced fumbles, and oh, Phillips had an interception which Allen didn't have. Is he really much better then Phillips? Not to mention they are both better at the same position, but the fans want to move him to the opposite position, whereas Houston is a mammoth defensive end could easily take up Wolfe's spot or start in place of Ayers who couldn't even keep his spot, he is more versatile.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-08-2014, 10:21 AM
Having both Wolfe and Houston would give us a lot of flexibility. We would see a lot of 5-2 looks.

underrated29
03-08-2014, 12:14 PM
De is a top priority for this team because we can't consistently rush the passer. That's what the FO wants. That's why Allen is a great fit- word is he likes New England and they like him. But let's make no mistake Allen does everything Houston does only better.

dogfish
03-08-2014, 02:10 PM
philips' sack numbers may have been close to allen's last year, but allen's numbers would have been better playing in our defense-- we kinda played with the lead a bit more than the scrub-ass vikings, philips got to pin his ears back all year. . . houston makes a ton of sense if the FO doesn't think wolfe can come back healthy. . . otherwise, not so much. . .

Ravage!!!
03-08-2014, 02:48 PM
I would love the signing of either Houston or Allen. I think Phillips has been great, and filled the need for a replacement for Doom. Phillips played excellent all year, and was a great signing. Adding a guy like Houston or Allen, would be a big step for this defense.

Adding a MLB would be HUGe, imo.

nevcraw
03-08-2014, 05:22 PM
Wolfe seemed to disappear after he injured his spine then had siezures. If he comes back 100% then we will be in good shape.

Miller makes everyone else look better because there is only so many guys the OL can block. Of course Wolfes production goes up when Miller is playing. They compliment each other.

most players disappear when they are not on the field after November.

Dzone
03-08-2014, 05:25 PM
So Red Bryant just signed with the Jaguars? Hows that? I thought free agency didnt start until march 11

silkamilkamonico
03-08-2014, 06:48 PM
If Lamar Houston signed with Denver, he would be their next kicking boy next on this message board. I can feel it.

silkamilkamonico
03-08-2014, 06:48 PM
So Red Bryant just signed with the Jaguars? Hows that? I thought free agency didnt start until march 11

I think he just agreed to terms..

MOtorboat
03-08-2014, 06:51 PM
Bryant falls under the same rule as D'Qwell Jackson. Veteran so the March 11 date doesn't apply.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-08-2014, 06:54 PM
I think he just agreed to terms..

That's correct, between now and Tuesday teams and FA's can discuss terms they just can't sign contracts.

Joel
03-09-2014, 08:30 AM
I think Elway wants to try to do better than Phillips and Ayers.
Then he better get a console, because in the real world he can't improve on a DE who led the team in sacks and plays the run well, backed by a guy who's quality depth vs. both pass and run. I hope we re-sign Phillips but doubt we keep Ayers—yet I'd be pretty content if we did. A lot depends on that, whether Wolfe can ever play again and whether Quanterus Smith is 1) healthy and 2) vindicates his pick. HOWEVER, if we had Wolfe/Jackson on one side and Phillips/Ayers on the other, I'd be comfortable with our DEs.

Just as having Vickerson and Knighton in the middle backed by Williams would make me pretty comfortable with our DTs. Our LB corps is a bigger issue, IMHO, than our front four. We don't need (and I don't want) four Dooms or Mathises on the line; opponents would literally run all over those guys (and frequently do IRL.) There's (far) more to D than sacks and picks.

MOtorboat
03-09-2014, 09:20 AM
Then he better get a console, because in the real world he can't improve on a DE who led the team in sacks and plays the run well, backed by a guy who's quality depth vs. both pass and run. I hope we re-sign Phillips but doubt we keep Ayers—yet I'd be pretty content if we did. A lot depends on that, whether Wolfe can ever play again and whether Quanterus Smith is 1) healthy and 2) vindicates his pick. HOWEVER, if we had Wolfe/Jackson on one side and Phillips/Ayers on the other, I'd be comfortable with our DEs.

Just as having Vickerson and Knighton in the middle backed by Williams would make me pretty comfortable with our DTs. Our LB corps is a bigger issue, IMHO, than our front four. We don't need (and I don't want) four Dooms or Mathises on the line; opponents would literally run all over those guys (and frequently do IRL.) There's (far) more to D than sacks and picks.

Except the real world has Jared Allen. So yes, they can improve upon Phillips.

Jaded
03-09-2014, 11:38 AM
This just in, Shaun Phillips is the G.O.A.T.

Joel
03-09-2014, 02:05 PM
Except the real world has Jared Allen. So yes, they can improve upon Phillips.
Sure they can improve on Phillips, but can't improve on the tandem of Phillips backed by Ayers. No chance we can find a quality starter AND quality depth as good as or better than Phillips+Ayers against both pass AND run. We have too many other (bigger) holes, because the cap won't let any team stack itself 2 Pro Bowlers deep at all positions.

dogfish
03-09-2014, 03:03 PM
Sure they can improve on Phillips, but can't improve on the tandem of Phillips backed by Ayers. No chance we can find a quality starter AND quality depth as good as or better than Phillips+Ayers against both pass AND run.

:spit: :rofl:

utterly wrong. . . they could bring back philips and draft another malik jackson type of player who's better than ayers in the fifth round. . . philips will be back unless we sign someone better, and ayers is easily replaced. . . if you're going to be back, nut the hell up, joel! nobody can stand your pitiful doom and gloom crap for a whole off-season, dude. . .

Joel
03-10-2014, 10:12 AM
:spit: :rofl:

utterly wrong. . . they could bring back philips and draft another malik jackson type of player who's better than ayers in the fifth round. . . philips will be back unless we sign someone better, and ayers is easily replaced. . . if you're going to be back, nut the hell up, joel! nobody can stand your pitiful doom and gloom crap for a whole off-season, dude. . .
Hey, I'm not the one insisting half our defense needs replacing. We need a Mike, but that's been true for a decade, and we need a solid FS if Champ's not the answer there (which his release suggests is the FOs opinion.) It's not doom and gloom to say a Phillips/Ayers rotation opposite Wolfe/Jackson is a strong pair of bookends, and that Vickerson and Knighton backed by Williams makes our whole front four solid all the way to the bench.

Sure, we could replace Phillips OR Ayers with someone better, but upgrading BOTH in one year is a pipe dream. That's not just because of the limits of NFL talent and the cash we have to spend on it (though both are very real,) but also because Phillips and Ayers are both pretty good players. Hell, Phillips led the team in sacks despite splitting time with Ayers much of the season, plus he's equally strong against the run. Just how many Jared Allens do people think the NFL has, or Denver needs and can afford?

Most of the doom and gloom I see is on the offensive line, at MLB and at safety; I've never understood how the perennial call for pass rushers can solve those problems.

CoachChaz
03-10-2014, 10:29 AM
I'll disagree. I think we are a much better defense if we add a legit pass rusher opposite Miller. I dont have a ton of faith in Phillips repeating what he did for us this year and I actually think he is much more effective in a role similar to Von. He would definitely be a situational player for us. Plus, I dont think he'll be all that expensive. I really font think his agents phone is blowig up and if someone wants to give him more than he's worth...adios.

Joel
03-10-2014, 12:47 PM
I'll disagree. I think we are a much better defense if we add a legit pass rusher opposite Miller. I dont have a ton of faith in Phillips repeating what he did for us this year and I actually think he is much more effective in a role similar to Von. He would definitely be a situational player for us. Plus, I dont think he'll be all that expensive. I really font think his agents phone is blowig up and if someone wants to give him more than he's worth...adios.
Well, both are ideally 3-4 OLBs, not 4-3 DEs, but both are also well above average vs. the run for that position in addition to delivering the blitz required. Phillips has been reliable and versatile in production throughout his career; the only question is how much he has left, but he was the only guy on our roster with double digit sacks last year, and a steal at $1 million.

This isn't a legit pass rusher? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PhilSh20.htm Remember, he led the Broncos in sacks DESPITE the absence of any other legit pass rushers to prevent double teaming him when Miller and Wolfe missed half the season. Seriously, what do people want from the guy? I can understand replacing Ayers (though I still think him quality versatile depth, I also think him better suited to a role much larger Wolfe and Jackson play better) but my sole complaint with Phillips is we found no way to lock him up for 3-4 years while he was cheap.

Even with HALF our defensive starters on IR, our D was still good enough to get us to the SB, which we lost because historys best passing didn't have a first down till the second quarter, not because of our D, so I don't understand why so many people want to rebuild the whole D. Yet even IF I bought into that and thought more sacks would've scored some points in the first half, dumping the best pass rusher we had last year seems a poor way to improve our pass rush.

CoachChaz
03-10-2014, 12:57 PM
I'm all for signing him. I just dont want him as a full time DE. I think he'd be better as a rotational guy. He can play DE on some downs and LB on others. But I'm not interested in him being a full time hand on the ground DE. His skill set just isnt designed for that and he isnt exactly getting younger.

Lancane
03-10-2014, 01:27 PM
While I disagree with you Joel about the need for a pass rusher or having issues at the end position, about Phillips being a better outside linebacker and especially on Ayers' value on the roster. I agree with you that the distain against Phillips is not only unwarranted but legitimately foolish. It was alright when Denver had a 5'11 255 to 260lbs. defensive end, you know the same one so many ****ed about losing to Free Agency, but he is replaced by a 6'3 255lbs. defensive end who has a great season and the world is wrong, he's not good enough and the Broncos would do better by signing instead or also another aged veteran pass rusher, because it will make all the difference...even though without our best pass rusher, Von Miller we didn't have trouble passing the rusher. And yes, the Broncos contacted Minnesota about a trade for Jared Allen, when they lost Dumervil. I don't get the 'hard-on' for Jared Allen, I really don't, not that I don't respect him and think it would be awesome with him in a Broncos Jersey, I'd much rather have Lamarr Houston, Arthur Jones or hell, even Antonio Smith (despite his age) beefing up the edge, if Wolfe returns with Malik in the wings and you have Houston and Wolfe at the end position, your going to be hard as hell to run on, you then have Miller, Phillips and Smith rushing from different positions on the field, on passing downs you move the ends in and have Miller and Phillips coming off the edge, maybe even using Smith and Mincey if they re-sign him.

CoachChaz
03-10-2014, 01:41 PM
While I disagree with you Joel about the need for a pass rusher or having issues at the end position, about Phillips being a better outside linebacker and especially on Ayers' value on the roster. I agree with you that the distain against Phillips is not only unwarranted but legitimately foolish. It was alright when Denver had a 5'11 255 to 260lbs. defensive end, you know the same one so many ****ed about losing to Free Agency, but he is replaced by a 6'3 255lbs. defensive end who has a great season and the world is wrong, he's not good enough and the Broncos would do better by signing instead or also another aged veteran pass rusher, because it will make all the difference...even though without our best pass rusher, Von Miller we didn't have trouble passing the rusher. And yes, the Broncos contacted Minnesota about a trade for Jared Allen, when they lost Dumervil. I don't get the 'hard-on' for Jared Allen, I really don't, not that I don't respect him and think it would be awesome with him in a Broncos Jersey, I'd much rather have Lamarr Houston, Arthur Jones or hell, even Antonio Smith (despite his age) beefing up the edge, if Wolfe returns with Malik in the wings and you have Houston and Wolfe at the end position, your going to be hard as hell to run on, you then have Miller, Phillips and Smith rushing from different positions on the field, on passing downs you move the ends in and have Miller and Phillips coming off the edge, maybe even using Smith and Mincey if they re-sign him.

Problems...

Miller is a move away from a long suspension and returning from an ACL injury
Phillips will be 33 and is not a true DE. Never has been. And apparently, Tennessee is making a strong run at him for their new 3-4 scheme
Smith has proven absolutely nothing and has never been much of a run stopper.


I dont think people are necessarily advocating the removal of Phillips, but adding a guy like Allen along with him. Getting a bunch of run stuffing DE's on the roster isnt going to help. We face passing situations on defense probably 60-70 % of the time and our run defense is already pretty damn good. We need to improve at getting to the quarterback.

Jsteve01
03-10-2014, 02:50 PM
I am just praying wolfe comes back healthy. I really felt prior to the injury that he would have a breakout season ( by that I mean 8 or 9 sacks while maintaining his stout run defense). Jackson looked much improved this year. I also believe that in today's league the model is pressure the passer and have some play makers on the back end defensively. You just can't have too many solid pass rushers. Especially when you're airing it out yourselves at a record clip. Mike is definitely a concern. Irving doesn't look like he'll ever be that guy but he definitley played well in spots last season. i've always felt with his skill set he is more suited to playing outside.

Lancane
03-10-2014, 03:49 PM
Problems...

Miller is a move away from a long suspension and returning from an ACL injury Phillips will be 33 and is not a true DE. Never has been. And apparently, Tennessee is making a strong run at him for their new 3-4 scheme Smith has proven absolutely nothing and has never been much of a run stopper.

Miller is the only elite player on the defensive side of the ball, the loss of his caliber of talent will be felt no matter what because the defense lacks such talent elswhere to counterbalance such a loss, period. Phillips will be 33 years old, Jared Allen is 31 years old and the two were comparable this past season, Allen didn't do anything I feel Phillips can not do. And despite you saying that he is not a true Defensive End, I would argue that is pathetically hypocritical, because he's played the position enough and the same was said about Dumervil before and he did well too. “And apprently, Tennessee is making a strong run at him for their new 3-4 scheme.” - I haven't heard that, what I've been hearing is that Denver is in talks with Phillips agent on a new deal. If Phillips goes to Tennessee then Jared Allen makes a lot of sense to fill that void. Also, Denver brought in Phillips for a couple reasons, A) Minnesota wouldn't trade Allen and B) Miller had a relationship with Phillips and the Broncos felt it would help the loss of Elvis with Von. We've seen that the loss of one might have caused him to falter, could the loss of another friend to the same to Miller at this stage?

As to your comment about Smith...of course he hasn't proven anything, neither has Osweiler according to three-quarters of the fanbase – but the team is grooming him to be the future. Smith is a second year player who is basically returning from severe injury and is going to be entering what is more like his freshman season then his sophomore year. The Broncos really like what they have in him, that is not saying he will live up to or exceed expectations, but the fact that they have expectations should mean something to those who believe in this regime.


I dont think people are necessarily advocating the removal of Phillips, but adding a guy like Allen along with him. Getting a bunch of run stuffing DE's on the roster isnt going to help. We face passing situations on defense probably 60-70 % of the time and our run defense is already pretty damn good. We need to improve at getting to the quarterback.

Miller, Allen and Phillips may end up being one too many roosters in the same hen house. Those ends I mentioned are solid against the run but also solid in rushing the passer, they might not have sack totals comparable to Phillips and Allen, but they are known for disrupting the backfield and making plays and pressuring the quarterback which is sometimes far more important then sacks, because it can lead to turnovers. People are hung up on sacks, and I am not saying it's not important...it's just that everyone else is focusing on that one statistic which is utterly useless at times. Our run defense included Phillips who was ranked 4th among defensive ends against the run. And we were 13th in sacks, 2nd in sacks in the post-season! As I said before, some are too hung up on that one statistic, which is at times empty.

If Phillips goes to Tennessee or talks stall between him and the team, then I am all for signing Allen.

CoachChaz
03-10-2014, 04:00 PM
Miller is the only elite player on the defensive side of the ball, the loss of his caliber of talent will be felt no matter what because the defense lacks such talent elswhere to counterbalance such a loss, period. Phillips will be 33 years old, Jared Allen is 31 years old and the two were comparable this past season, Allen didn't do anything I feel Phillips can not do. And despite you saying that he is not a true Defensive End, I would argue that is pathetically hypocritical, because he's played the position enough and the same was said about Dumervil before and he did well too. “And apprently, Tennessee is making a strong run at him for their new 3-4 scheme.” - I haven't heard that, what I've been hearing is that Denver is in talks with Phillips agent on a new deal. If Phillips goes to Tennessee then Jared Allen makes a lot of sense to fill that void. Also, Denver brought in Phillips for a couple reasons, A) Minnesota wouldn't trade Allen and B) Miller had a relationship with Phillips and the Broncos felt it would help the loss of Elvis with Von. We've seen that the loss of one might have caused him to falter, could the loss of another friend to the same to Miller at this stage?

As to your comment about Smith...of course he hasn't proven anything, neither has Osweiler according to three-quarters of the fanbase – but the team is grooming him to be the future. Smith is a second year player who is basically returning from severe injury and is going to be entering what is more like his freshman season then his sophomore year. The Broncos really like what they have in him, that is not saying he will live up to or exceed expectations, but the fact that they have expectations should mean something to those who believe in this regime.



Miller, Allen and Phillips may end up being one too many roosters in the same hen house. Those ends I mentioned are solid against the run but also solid in rushing the passer, they might not have sack totals comparable to Phillips and Allen, but they are known for disrupting the backfield and making plays and pressuring the quarterback which is sometimes far more important then sacks, because it can lead to turnovers. People are hung up on sacks, and I am not saying it's not important...it's just that everyone else is focusing on that one statistic which is utterly useless at times. Our run defense included Phillips who was ranked 4th among defensive ends against the run. And we were 13th in sacks, 2nd in sacks in the post-season! As I said before, some are too hung up on that one statistic, which is at times empty.

If Phillips goes to Tennessee or talks stall between him and the team, then I am all for signing Allen.

http://nfltraderumors.co/titans-reportedly-have-de-shaun-phillips-on-their-radar/

Buff
03-10-2014, 04:11 PM
As far as I'm concerned - we have a one-year Super Bowl window before we need to rebuild. I'm ready to go after every aging veteran with something left in the tank out there. Jared Allen makes so much sense.

Lancane
03-10-2014, 04:20 PM
As far as I'm concerned - we have a one-year Super Bowl window before we need to rebuild. I'm ready to go after every aging veteran with something left in the tank out there. Jared Allen makes so much sense.

Buff, that was also the Shanahan route which eventually left us void of talent and created a subpar .500 culture for nearly a decade. No thanks.

Buff
03-10-2014, 04:22 PM
Buff, that was also the Shanahan route which eventually left us void of talent and created a subpar .500 culture for nearly a decade. No thanks.

Shanny did that every year for 10 years straight and it's left people like you extremely gun shy - to the extent that you want to be conservative at the exact wrong moment.

Peyton Manning is a once-in-a-lifetime QB with 1-2 years left. We need to do everything we can to win right now. Period.

Lancane
03-10-2014, 04:30 PM
Shanny did that every year for 10 years straight and it's left people like you extremely gun shy - to the extent that you want to be conservative at the exact wrong moment.

Peyton Manning is a once-in-a-lifetime QB with 1-2 years left. We need to do everything we can to win right now. Period.

Elway has proven more adept at free agency then in the draft (without Xanders) until otherwise proven, but the mere fact that everyone is ready to sell the future for a ring makes me ill. I'd rather have a long-term winning culture then a temporary one that will leave this team in another complete rebuilding situation so soon. I don't want the Broncos to be the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, 49ers, Packers, Saints or Seahawks, what I want is them to be more like the Colts, that the team is able to transition without selling the future and continue to win. Banking on veterans for a short run will leave a team devoid of needed talent, and if this team doesn't improve with younger, better talent...it won't make a **** of difference Buff, because the teams that have that in their favor will still have the upper hand against us.

dogfish
03-10-2014, 04:30 PM
Buff, that was also the Shanahan route which eventually left us void of talent and created a subpar .500 culture for nearly a decade. No thanks.

the only difference being that shanny's teams were always five years away from contending, where this one is actually ready now. . . bit of a difference starting the year with jake plunger as your QB compared to PFM, coming off a super bowl appearance. . .


also, it's a vastly different NFL. . . one- and two-year deals are the norm for vets over 27 or 28 now. . . you don't have to sign some old injury risk to a crippling five-year deal the way mike loved to do. . .

underrated29
03-10-2014, 04:31 PM
Elway has said that you build the team for now through FA and build for the future through the draft. He will buy and buy big in FA for anyone who can help us win now. He will then double up and build the team through the draft for the future.

Our team is pretty young...

Who do we have that is old?
Mike adams (who will be gone soon maybe this year)
shaun phillips (he will be gone soon. The titans are looking at him this year)
Manning- he will be gone soon...3 years tops.
Welker- he is a boss but only has 1 year left with us
Vasquez? No clue on his age....

The rest of our team is really young. We have the core in place. You need the wiley vets and the PROVEN starters when you window is NOW like ours is.

dogfish
03-10-2014, 04:37 PM
Elway has proven more adept at free agency then in the draft (without Xanders) until otherwise proven, but the mere fact that everyone is ready to sell the future for a ring makes me ill. I'd rather have a long-term winning culture then a temporary one that will leave this team in another complete rebuilding situation so soon. I don't want the Broncos to be the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, 49ers, Packers, Saints or Seahawks, what I want is them to be more like the Colts, that the team is able to transition without selling the future and continue to win. Banking on veterans for a short run will leave a team devoid of needed talent, and if this team doesn't improve with younger, better talent...it won't make a **** of difference Buff, because the teams that have that in their favor will still have the upper hand against us.

you aren't talking about the colts, though, because they did get one. . . what you're saying sounds like you'd rather be philly under andy reid-- always competitive-- than baltimore under harbaugh, where they loaded up and did win one, and then had to fall off to rebuild. . .

in any case, you don't have to trust elway, but most of us do. . . there's no reason we can't stock up for a short window while still building for the future-- why else did they spend a pick on oz? we don't have the cap space to load up with 26-year-old FAs, which you know quite well. . . we stil managed to land an all-pro guard in his prime last year, and are looking at younger players like DRC, verner and mike mitchell. . . you can only add so many guys in their prime, the rest have to be older guys on shorter deals, or scrub journeymen. . .

luckyseven
03-10-2014, 05:58 PM
As far as I'm concerned - we have a one-year Super Bowl window before we need to rebuild. I'm ready to go after every aging veteran with something left in the tank out there. Jared Allen makes so much sense.

I do not see that we need to rebuild.
Everything I have seen from what John E has done is bringing in solid talent, Vaquesz, while building this team via the draft and UDFA. there are 7 legit players on the team including a kicker and QB that have more than 7 years in the NFL.( did not include Koppen or Paris) for obvious reasons.

SO I do not see the rebuild issue you are.


Buff, that was also the Shanahan route which eventually left us void of talent and created a subpar .500 culture for nearly a decade. No thanks.

He brought in expensive players that for the most part were well over the hill.

John has went out of his way to find solid vets on super cheap contracts to fill a immediate need due to injury mostly or in Phillips case dumervilles faxgate.

luckyseven
03-10-2014, 06:04 PM
Elway has said that you build the team for now through FA and build for the future through the draft. He will buy and buy big in FA for anyone who can help us win now. He will then double up and build the team through the draft for the future.

Our team is pretty young...

Who do we have that is old?
Mike adams (who will be gone soon maybe this year)
shaun phillips (he will be gone soon. The titans are looking at him this year)
Manning- he will be gone soon...3 years tops.
Welker- he is a boss but only has 1 year left with us
Vasquez? No clue on his age....

The rest of our team is really young. We have the core in place. You need the wiley vets and the PROVEN starters when you window is NOW like ours is.

Vasquez is 26 with Clady being the old man at 27 not counting Rameriz at 31, but I'll bet his replacement is hanging in the war room at this time.

11 rookies
25 players with more than one year less than 3
14 more between 4-5 years
this is a pretty young team.

Magnificent Seven
03-10-2014, 06:22 PM
I am not sold on Wolfe. He was that damn good... however, I am not sure he is 100% healthy... what if he has another seizures in season 2014?

SmilinAssasSin27
03-10-2014, 07:05 PM
I'd rather have a long-term winning culture then a temporary one that will leave this team in another complete rebuilding situation so soon. I don't want the Broncos to be the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, 49ers, Packers, Saints or Seahawks, what I want is them to be more like the Colts, that the team is able to transition without selling the future and continue to win.

Did you just say the Steelers dont have longevity in winning?

Buff
03-10-2014, 07:42 PM
I do not see that we need to rebuild.
Everything I have seen from what John E has done is bringing in solid talent, Vaquesz, while building this team via the draft and UDFA. there are 7 legit players on the team including a kicker and QB that have more than 7 years in the NFL.( did not include Koppen or Paris) for obvious reasons.

SO I do not see the rebuild issue you are.



He brought in expensive players that for the most part were well over the hill.

John has went out of his way to find solid vets on super cheap contracts to fill a immediate need due to injury mostly or in Phillips case dumervilles faxgate.

"Rebuild" was probably too strong a word... There is no true "rebuilding" in the NFL anymore, because there is so much turnover from year to year. I just meant that there are veteran guys who will get consideration on short term deals who might seem past their prime but actually fit what we're trying to do... So as Dog and others have mentioned, we can't act like this is the Shanny sign-everyone approach to free agency, the times and circumstances have changed. We are legit contenders, if not favorites in the AFC.

If ever there was a year to make a splash in free agency, it's this one.

DenBronx
03-10-2014, 07:51 PM
Broncos are reportedly early favorites to land Jarred Allen.

On a cell so I cant post the link.

DenBronx
03-10-2014, 07:54 PM
https://twitter.com/christomasson/status/443161994560958465

Source Would Be 'Shocked' If DEN Doesn't Land Allen

via ble.ac/teamstream-

luckyseven
03-10-2014, 08:18 PM
"Rebuild" was probably too strong a word... There is no true "rebuilding" in the NFL anymore, because there is so much turnover from year to year. I just meant that there are veteran guys who will get consideration on short term deals who might seem past their prime but actually fit what we're trying to do... So as Dog and others have mentioned, we can't act like this is the Shanny sign-everyone approach to free agency, the times and circumstances have changed. We are legit contenders, if not favorites in the AFC.

If ever there was a year to make a splash in free agency, it's this one.

ok I can understand this premise, we finally have a good amount of money to spend. But if we are going after UFA I only want to see long term solutions at this point, such as Vasquez, Knighton was with perhaps a splash of Tamme, Welker, Dresson, DRC and Phillips thrown in as pot hole fillers after the draft.

Actually there is rebuilding in the NFL, look at Cleveland and then there is Oakland. both pitiful franchises.

you can add Seattle and 49ers to the list of teams that have pretty much started with crap and with new GM's and HC's that turned them around, in a relatively short time.

those teams that are at the bottom of the draft pool, on a consistent basis KC, St Louis, Phoenix, all seem to have rebuilt over a couple of years.

then there is Jacksonville does anyone hold hope for them?

While you might be thinking rebuilding at every position, look at Denver over the past 6 years, one of the crappiest teams in the NFL. with some smart upgrades here and there (the entire OL except Clady) the entire defense except Champ.

I think you can agree rebuilding is very real.

Buff
03-10-2014, 08:27 PM
ok I can understand this premise, we finally have a good amount of money to spend. But if we are going after UFA I only want to see long term solutions at this point, such as Vasquez, Knighton was with perhaps a splash of Tamme, Welker, Dresson, DRC and Phillips thrown in as pot hole fillers after the draft.

Actually there is rebuilding in the NFL, look at Cleveland and then there is Oakland. both pitiful franchises.

you can add Seattle and 49ers to the list of teams that have pretty much started with crap and with new GM's and HC's that turned them around, in a relatively short time.

those teams that are at the bottom of the draft pool, on a consistent basis KC, St Louis, Phoenix, all seem to have rebuilt over a couple of years.

then there is Jacksonville does anyone hold hope for them?

While you might be thinking rebuilding at every position, look at Denver over the past 6 years, one of the crappiest teams in the NFL. with some smart upgrades here and there (the entire OL except Clady) the entire defense except Champ.

I think you can agree rebuilding is very real.

True. Oakland is a team who got themselves into salary cap hell and made some ill-advised trades, and then had no choice but to ride out a couple of years waiting for the dead money to come off the books and their draft picks to get replenished.

But I have every reason to believe that Elway will structure the veteran contracts accordingly, because that's what he's been doing with the other guys who've come in (Welker, Phillips, DRC, etc.)... Not only that, but this is a different era in the NFL post-lockout/new CBA. Teams don't throw insane money at UFAs like they did back when guys like Albert Haynseworth were getting paid.

luckyseven
03-10-2014, 08:29 PM
True. Oakland is a team who got themselves into salary cap hell and made some ill-advised trades, and then had no choice but to ride out a couple of years waiting for the dead money to come off the books and their draft picks to get replenished.

But I have every reason to believe that Elway will structure the veteran contracts accordingly, because that's what he's been doing with the other guys who've come in (Welker, Phillips, DRC, etc.)... Not only that, but this is a different era in the NFL post-lockout/new CBA. Teams don't throw insane money at UFAs like they did back when guys like Albert Haynseworth were getting paid.


rumor has it this year with the almost 10% increase in cap value lots of teams are going to drive prices up.

Buff
03-10-2014, 08:34 PM
rumor has it this year with the almost 10% increase in cap value lots of teams are going to drive prices up.

Yeah, there will be some overspending... But I don't think we'll see the egregious overspending from the old CBA when rookies were still getting their wild deals too.

luckyseven
03-11-2014, 12:12 AM
Yeah, there will be some overspending... But I don't think we'll see the egregious overspending from the old CBA when rookies were still getting their wild deals too.

The whole idea of the new CBA was to make sure the vets got paid and the rookies did. It get the big bucks without proving anything.

If anything the GMs have shown remarkable restraint in not selling the farm for some of the UFAs.
John perhaps the best of them picking up bargains for some really good talent.

With the extra money out there not so sure those bargains are gonna to be around like they have been.

Lancane
03-11-2014, 12:29 AM
https://twitter.com/christomasson/status/443161994560958465

Source Would Be 'Shocked' If DEN Doesn't Land Allen

via ble.ac/teamstream-

I can only hope that means that talks with Phillips have stalled or he is going elsewhere. As I said before, having both along with Miller might be one rooster too many in the hen house.

Lancane
03-11-2014, 02:35 AM
I do not see that we need to rebuild. Everything I have seen from what John E has done is bringing in solid talent, Vaquesz, while building this team via the draft and UDFA. there are 7 legit players on the team including a kicker and QB that have more than 7 years in the NFL.( did not include Koppen or Paris) for obvious reasons.

SO I do not see the rebuild issue you are.

Lucky, Elway again has proven to be smart when it comes to free agency, and especially when it comes to not overpaying veterans. That said, he's also not proven to be at the same level in regards to drafting (as I mentioned before) not that he's horrible, but his first draft was his best, hard to miss when you have such high draft picks, but he also had Xanders, so how much of that first draft was due to having him there helping?

One year deals have taken hold, then again should the player prove himself the cost usually triples to retain that same said player. Even worse is Elway's obligatory forte in regards to contracts, if Denver locked down certain core players, not just free agents but players like Demaryius Thomas and Von Miller, etc. then come next off-season the Broncos will not be in as dire of a spot. And complete rebuilding would not be necessary. I'm not saying we need to sign youthful, elite talent at each and every position – this isn't Madden, but we need to have a core of such players to continuously compete.


He brought in expensive players that for the most part were well over the hill.
Not in the beginning, he brought in Mark Schlereth, Tony Jones, Neil Smith, Ed McCaffrey, Bill Romonowski, Mike Lodish, Michael Dean Perry, Alfred Williams, etc. Like Elway in some ways, he found early success in Free Agency more then in the draft. If that trend continues I think we could see some of the same repeat itself...I hope not, but of course I also hoped the Broncos would hire a true GM to help John, not name him General Manager atop his current position.


John has went out of his way to find solid vets on super cheap contracts to fill a immediate need due to injury mostly or in Phillips case dumervilles faxgate.
I'm not saying he hasn't, but I also know that not locking up talent and allowing too much to hit your pocketbook simutaneously can be just as detrimental to the success of any pro sport franchise.

luckyseven
03-11-2014, 04:07 PM
Lucky, Elway again has proven to be smart when it comes to free agency, and especially when it comes to not overpaying veterans. That said, he's also not proven to be at the same level in regards to drafting (as I mentioned before) not that he's horrible, but his first draft was his best, hard to miss when you have such high draft picks, but he also had Xanders, so how much of that first draft was due to having him there helping?

One year deals have taken hold, then again should the player prove himself the cost usually triples to retain that same said player. Even worse is Elway's obligatory forte in regards to contracts, if Denver locked down certain core players, not just free agents but players like Demaryius Thomas and Von Miller, etc. then come next off-season the Broncos will not be in as dire of a spot. And complete rebuilding would not be necessary. I'm not saying we need to sign youthful, elite talent at each and every position – this isn't Madden, but we need to have a core of such players to continuously compete.
Not in the beginning, he brought in Mark Schlereth, Tony nes, Neil Smith, Ed McCaffrey, Bill Romonowski, Mike Lodish, Michael Dean Perry, Alfred Williams, etc. Like Elway in some ways, he found early success in Free Agency more then in the draft. If that trend continues I think we could see some of the same repeat itself...I hope not, but of course I also hoped the Broncos would hire a true GM to help John, not name him General Manager atop his current position.
I'm not saying he hasn't, but I also know that not locking up talent and allowing too much to hit your pocketbook simutaneously can be just as detrimental to the success of any pro sport franchise.


Myself I'd rather had a great experienced GM also, While I thought Xanders was good for Mc D I also believe that his scouting staff did the heavy lifting.

I'm not convinced like some that his drafting has not been good.

This has been a good solid team with good to great starters the past two years. Hard to break that lineup, those players are going to get more playing time this year, and years to come. the omly third round or better draftee that has not worked out is Hillman IMO all the rest have started at some point and will get more time down the road as older players move on.

also he has hit a couple of home runs with Jackson (5) and Trevathan (6) so a couple more starters or first backups.

Williams was not ready as MOST DT are rarely ready to go in their first year. so that was no issue.

The only other player that you could call a bust is perhaps Bolden and he has played a heck of a lot of ST.

I think you are correct DT and MAYBE Von need early contracts but I'd like to see if Von can be up to speed before we do.

CoachChaz
03-11-2014, 04:09 PM
Vontae Davis re-signs with Colts. 4 years, 39 mil.

DRC and Verner arent going to be cheap.

Buff
03-11-2014, 04:25 PM
Can we still franchise tag guys? Or did that ship sail once FA opened?

CoachChaz
03-11-2014, 04:30 PM
Can we still franchise tag guys? Or did that ship sail once FA opened?

Last Monday was the deadline

Buff
03-11-2014, 05:20 PM
Last Monday was the deadline

Yeah, I thought so, most of the offseason I was expecting us to franchise DRC. And it just occurred to me that we don't have that as a fallback plan anymore.

tomjonesrocks
03-11-2014, 06:23 PM
Surprised McFadden reupped with the Raidaz.

Why would you continue to do that to yourself?

DenBronx
03-11-2014, 10:00 PM
Vontae Davis re-signs with Colts. 4 years, 39 mil.

DRC and Verner arent going to be cheap.

Npt cheap but now that the bar is set we go from there.

Bet we get DRC between 7-8 a year.

luckyseven
03-11-2014, 10:01 PM
Surprised McFadden reupped with the Raidaz.

Why would you continue to do that to yourself?

some guys are not real bright.
maybe he likes the black hole.