Would You Be Surprised If John Traded Von Miller?

[WARHORSE]

I REALLY didnt like the fact that Miller was trying to go to a club after the superbowl (the one that rejected him).

Not that grown men cant go to clubs. But guys with year long suspensions over their heads?

Hes a wrong step away from a year suspension, coming off an ACL tear, and (imo) a little overweight.

Does anyone want to lose his talent? I dont.


But if he gets suspended for a year......Ill flip a wig.


If we did trade him, it most definitely would have to be for a great price.


But.......would I be surprised if John traded him away?



No I wouldnt.

[Ravage!!!]

We can't expect these guys to simply stay at home all the time. Some people get so upset when these athletes get hurt doing activities outside of football, as if they are supposed to live a life wrappedin bubble-wrap. Going to a club isn't a problem that will get Von in trouble.... since he's most likely not going to light up in public, ANYWAY. If he's going to do it, it will be at home.

So going out to a club isn't really a big deal.

However, consdiering Von could be the next Derrick Thomas, I would be VERY surprised if we traded him at this point.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

We can't expect these guys to simply stay at home all the time. Some people get so upset when these athletes get hurt doing activities outside of football, as if they are supposed to live a life wrappedin bubble-wrap. Going to a club isn't a problem that will get Von in trouble.... since he's most likely not going to light up in public, ANYWAY. If he's going to do it, it will be at home.

So going out to a club isn't really a big deal.

However, consdiering Von could be the next Derrick Thomas, I would be VERY surprised if we traded him at this point.

Who knows, Von might have just been trying to meet up with one of his buddies. He played college ball at A&M with somebody who's on the Seahawks roster.

[G_Money]

I would be surprised because it would be selling low, and that's a dumb way to spend most assets.

Let him come back as a monster and we won't want to trade him. If he comes back average, his cap figure of 6.6 million is pretty high, but not killer. He basically has to not make it back from surgery to not be worth it, and if you can't get a first plus other stuff for a currently-one-legged Miller (who's one strike away from a year long suspension) then what would be the point?

Miller should be on this team next year. We need pass-rushers, he's one of the best in the business, and we just need him to grow up a little so as not to get hammered by that looming suspension for any more misdeeds.

We might not pay him after the season if we don't think he can hold up his end, but I do expect him back this coming year.

~G

[Shazam!]

This team needs all the help it can get on Defense. No way in hell Elway pulls this.

Oh, how I hate the early beginning of the offseason...

[WARHORSE]

All valid points.

But what happens if he does something dumb........and gets suspended for the year.


Then what do we have on defense?


There are pros and cons unfortunately. Id love a Derrick Thomas but not suspended for a year.

Id rather have a Hardy on the field than a Derrick Thomas clone on the couch.



BUT...........I love the way Von played in 2012.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

All valid points.

But what happens if he does something dumb........and gets suspended for the year.


Then what do we have on defense?


There are pros and cons unfortunately. Id love a Derrick Thomas but not suspended for a year.

Id rather have a Hardy on the field than a Derrick Thomas clone on the couch.



BUT...........I love the way Von played in 2012.

Von has had plenty of time to do something dumb, and so far, so good. Hopefully it stays that way.

[NightTerror218]

You are assuming he gets suspended. Wtf

He is going to be rehab for knee and training to get back. He learned a hard lesson.

Fyi there are 3 texas a&m alum on Seattle's roster.

[ShaneFalco]

/wrists

[BroncoWave]

Yes, I'd be very surprised if John Elway were that stupid.

[Buff]

Exactly what G said.

His stock is at an all time low - plus rare, elite talents will always get more chances than other guys.

So it would actually shock me because I categorically don't think we want to move Von, and even if we did now would be the exact wrong time to do so.

[OrangeHoof]

I would be shocked if Von were traded. We need pass rushers as much as anything else and Von is already under contract. It should be noted, however, that the baseball Cardinals traded Keith Hernandez to the Mets back around 1983 in part because he was dong cocaine and the team thought they should trade him before he got caught. He was caught during the 1985 baseball-cocaine scandal but was able to plea away the suspension and wound up winning the 1986 World Series. My point being that Elway might dump Von if he has inside information that Miller still isn't clean and knows the suspension is coming.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I would kick a puppy if we traded John Miller. Then I would shout angrily in the air at wte, whether or not anyone was watching.

[BroncoWave]

No. I wouldn't be surprised. He disappointed me big time and I felt meh. Broncos have won more games without him. Sure, trade him for an outstanding player from somewhere.

Like whom?

[Magnificent Seven]

Like whom?

A blockbuster trade... a solid CB?

[BroncoWave]

A blockbuster trade... a solid CB?

Once again...who?

[chazoe60]

Let's trade Miller and Manning to GB for Aaron Rodgers and Mathews.

[Buff]

Let's trade Miller and Manning to GB for Aaron Rodgers and Mathews.

Maybe if we threw in Prater for Crosby they'd bite.

[Magnificent Seven]

Once again...who?

CB Joe Haden, Cleveland Browns

CB Antonio Cromartie, New York Jets

CB Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals

CB Charles Tillman, Chicago Bears

CB Brandon Flowers, Kansas City Chiefs

[Buff]

We had the best CB in the league for years and never won anything. Trading an elite pass rusher for a CB - no matter how good - sounds like a really bad idea to me.

[Mike]

Bring in a solid vet who is a natural leader and it will go a long way helping Miller mature. No way should Denver part with him, no way they get value with his history and now injury.

[luckyseven]

I would kick a puppy if we traded John Miller. Then I would shout angrily in the air at wte, whether or not anyone was watching.

Ah John Miller, pretty sure they would have a tough time finding someone that would give us much of anything for him.

[luckyseven]

Bring in a solid vet who is a natural leader and it will go a long way helping Miller mature. No way should Denver part with him, no way they get value with his history and now injury.

If the kid is addicted to MJ, (living in Colorado would be torture for him) even having his Dad (can't get much more mature than that) living with him may not stop him from doing something dumb.

living in Colorado could mean just walking into the wrong place or by a couple of folks smoking could cause him a potential problem, either kill his will power or just have bad luck of being tested the next day..

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

[Buff]

If the kid is addicted to MJ, (living in Colorado would be torture for him) even having his Dad (can't get much more mature than that) living with him will not stop him from doing something dumb.

living in Colorado could mean just walking into the wrong place or by a couple of folks smoking could cause him a potential problem, either kill his will power or just have bad luck of being tested the next day..

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

There are weed smokers in every NFL locker room. I don't think availability is the issue.

[BroncoWave]

CB Joe Haden, Cleveland Browns

CB Antonio Cromartie, New York Jets

CB Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals

CB Charles Tillman, Chicago Bears

CB Brandon Flowers, Kansas City Chiefs

Every single one of those trades would be absolutely retarded from Denver's end other than MAYBE Patrick Peterson, but there is no way AZ is trading him.

[luckyseven]

There are weed smokers in every NFL locker room. I don't think availability is the issue.

perhaps not just availability, but it potentially being almost everywhere. could easily walk into a friends house with someone smoking and bang he is gone.

being in a state that makes it easy to buy, not a "legal" issue could make it very temptable for a kid that has been caught by the NFL.

[luckyseven]

We had the best CB in the league for years and never won anything. Trading an elite pass rusher for a CB - no matter how good - sounds like a really bad idea to me.

precisely unless you have 4 great CBs and a couple of great safeties that can cover for 5-10 seconds they will be beat at some point. not having a pass rush IMO cost us the superbowl the year before. flacko simply had all day to find WRs and for them to beat our Cbs.

I'd rather have 4-6 pass rushing demons that can stop the over having all of those listed CBs at the same time on the field. give me average DB's and an elite LOS play and you will win more often than not. the great guys up front make the guys behind them just a bit better than they are.

Does anyone really think that the seahawks DBs are that great or is the pressure up front making them better than they are.. do not get me wrong they are good, but without that pass rush there would have been a heck of a lot less picks and passes defensed

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Ah John Miller, pretty sure they would have a tough time finding someone that would give us much of anything for him.

I'll bet SF would give us Alan Smith and a 5th.

[Joel]

I would be surprised because it would be selling low, and that's a dumb way to spend most assets.

Let him come back as a monster and we won't want to trade him. If he comes back average, his cap figure of 6.6 million is pretty high, but not killer. He basically has to not make it back from surgery to not be worth it, and if you can't get a first plus other stuff for a currently-one-legged Miller (who's one strike away from a year long suspension) then what would be the point?

Miller should be on this team next year. We need pass-rushers, he's one of the best in the business, and we just need him to grow up a little so as not to get hammered by that looming suspension for any more misdeeds.

We might not pay him after the season if we don't think he can hold up his end, but I do expect him back this coming year.

~G
Anything that makes us desperate to dump him lowers his value (especially since the price would be chunky AND he'll want a new contract next year) so we couldn't get much.

Alternatively, anything that would make him worth a high draft pick or excellent player makes him the kind of player we don't want to dump at 25.

Just play it out and see if he earns a big contract this season; whether he does or doesn't, our decision will be far easier.

When it looked like he tried to crash the after party for the team that globally humiliated us, that was one thing, but it turns out he just went to a club to drink after the game and got turned away because they were at capacity. He didn't break any laws, and I wanted to get good and plowed after that game, too (and did) so no harm, no foul.

[Simple Jaded]

Charles Tillman is a free agent and Cromartie will be soon after the Jets cut him, but hey, this might actually be the kind of shit you could expect in return for comfirmed idiot whose coming off ACL surgery and is one Molly away from a one year suspension.

I love how a players mistake can really impair fans judgement.

[Lancane]

I'd be shocked, not really surprised. Over the years we've seen different ****. Who on here thought we'd allow Shannon Sharpe to go or Steve Atwater for that matter, who thought we'd trade Clinton Portis? Look at Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall. I could see Denver doing it 'if' they had the inside track on him being suspended or doing things off the field that could lead to it. But I don't see Elway doing it at this point.

[MOtorboat]

I'd be shocked, not really surprised. Over the years we've seen different ****. Who on here thought we'd allow Shannon Sharpe to go or Steve Atwater for that matter, who thought we'd trade Clinton Portis? Look at Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall. I could see Denver doing it 'if' they had the inside track on him being suspended or doing things off the field that could lead to it. But I don't see Elway doing it at this point.

Oh thank the football gods Jay Cutler is gone!

[Northman]

Would i be surprised? Yes and no.

I dont think John cuts ties with him right now but i would be willing to bet he is on very thin ice. Any more slip ups/suspensions and i could see him being traded away.

[TXBRONC]

I don't see Elway doing that. It would be historically stupid on the level of Josh McDaniels.

[SR]

I thought Chop started this one at first

[sneakers]

You won't get any value for him now, so if they were going to trade him at any point, it would be after he has a monster season (but then why would you want to trade him)?

[WARHORSE]

You are assuming he gets suspended. Wtf

He is going to be rehab for knee and training to get back. He learned a hard lesson.

Fyi there are 3 texas a&m alum on Seattle's roster.

Im not at all assuming he gets suspended. But unlike other players, he has violated policy.....twice......then tried to undermine the process thereby getting an even bigger suspension.


Of course our hope is that he stays straight the rest of the way. And Im not judging him, I think Marshawn Lynch said it best when he said let people grow up like me, then give them all their dreams come true, and lets see how many mistakes they make.

I understand.

But the fact is, hard lesson or not, a GM has to consider the possibility of impact should Von get set down for a year.....and that to me, is a huge impact.


If we all knew Von would go violation free from here on out....we wouldnt be discussing.

Sadly, thats an unknown, but an unknown that can hugely impact our team.

[G_Money]

Even if Von gets suspended, that means his money comes off the books. If he gets suspended in the offseason, then we have extra dollars to throw around either to start the season or at the trade deadline (suspended players don't count against the cap unless they have pro-rated bonus money left, and Von's rookie contract does not IIRC). Remember all the buzz about adding Jaren Allen? If Von is gone we'll have several million bucks available to spend.

I believe Von would ALSO lose out on free agency after the year due to this suspension - his contract with us would be automatically extended by a year due to his suspension (his team is not penalized for his actions other than losing the services of the player. It works like a contract holdout where the next year "vests" automatically because the player chose not to fulfill his contract to the team).

Somebody who's better with salary cap ramifications can feel free to correct me, but if:

a) A year of awesome Von is better than whatever else we could get, and
b) A year or partial year of mediocre Von is still basically worth his contract, and
c) If Von screws up this offseason and gets suspended for a year it doesn't hurt our cap figure AND gives us another year of Von control...

Then what's the problem?

~G

[G_Money]

The only concern would be losing out on the delta between what Von can bring us in trade at his current (lowered) value due to injury and general dumbness, and the nothing we could get for him after a year long suspension.

But unless you think you can get multiple firsts for him, why bother? Brandon Marshall brought two 2nd-round picks under a similar looming suspension problem, and got a big deal. Would that deal make you trade Miller, even if you could get it?

It cost us a first round pick and a couple years of development to replace Marshall with DT. We don't have a couple of years to wait for another pass-rusher like Von to emerge (I think Oz is a waste and we're gonna sink back to the .500 muck as soon as Manning retires, so we need that title NOW). Just roll with the pass-rusher we got.

~G

[luckyseven]

Even if Von gets suspended, that means his money comes off the books. If he gets suspended in the offseason, then we have extra dollars to throw around either to start the season or at the trade deadline (suspended players don't count against the cap unless they have pro-rated bonus money left, and Von's rookie contract does not IIRC). Remember all the buzz about adding Jaren Allen? If Von is gone we'll have several million bucks available to spend.

I believe Von would ALSO lose out on free agency after the year due to this suspension - his contract with us would be automatically extended by a year due to his suspension (his team is not penalized for his actions other than losing the services of the player. It works like a contract holdout where the next year "vests" automatically because the player chose not to fulfill his contract to the team).

Somebody who's better with salary cap ramifications can feel free to correct me, but if:

a) A year of awesome Von is better than whatever else we could get, and
b) A year or partial year of mediocre Von is still basically worth his contract, and
c) If Von screws up this offseason and gets suspended for a year it doesn't hurt our cap figure AND gives us another year of Von control...

Then what's the problem?

~G
from over the cap pro rated bonus money is $3,443,250.00 but would save $3,238,688.00 in salary.
http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Von%20Miller&Position=43OLB&Team=Broncos

[Lancane]

Another reason I don't see Elway trading Von Miller is because he is his greatest successful draftee. Most of this team was put in place by other regimes and the choices made under them. Besides Miller he hasn't drafted an elite prospect, he drafted starters in Moore, Trevathan, Wolfe, Franklin and Thomas (who is about the closest to being an elite at this point) all others besides those few have been fodder or backups, where Elway has been solid is in Free Agency. Miller represents the change in guard and philosophy, not to mention as I stated earlier is the one unquestionable elite drafted and arguably the only elite on the defensive side of the ball to boot.

[Ravage!!!]

How many elite players should Elway have drafted over the three years?

[luckyseven]

How many elite players should Elway have drafted over the three years?

Considering there are but a few elite players at each position in the NFL odds are we are not going to be able to draft but a few total over a 10 year cycle. Then as a general rule unless they are sleepers unlikely we are going to get one outside the top 20 pick in each draft.

If that is a given, odds are we are not going see any until manning retires and we dip back up under #10 picks again.

So many fans expect us to have pro bowl players at every spot, that is simply not feasible.

Right now the elites on this team would be Manning( not drafted), Von, Clady, Vasquez(not drafted), on the verge DT, JT and IMO DRC ( soon to be gone).

IMO John has been a wizard at aquirring talent.

But long term goals have to be drafting well, every year keeping at least half of your starting team in rookie contracts. Filling in the rest with seasoned vets, and resigned draftees on second maybe third contracts.

[Ravage!!!]

Considering there are but a few elite players at each position in the NFL odds are we are not going to be able to draft but a few total over a 10 year cycle. Then as a general rule unless they are sleepers unlikely we are going to get one outside the top 20 pick in each draft.

If that is a given, odds are we are not going see any until manning retires and we dip back up under #10 picks again.

So many fans expect us to have pro bowl players at every spot, that is simply not feasible.

Right now the elites on this team would be Manning( not drafted), Von, Clady, Vasquez(not drafted), on the verge DT, JT and IMO DRC ( soon to be gone).

IMO John has been a wizard at aquirring talent.

But long term goals have to be drafting well, every year keeping at least half of your starting team in rookie contracts. Filling in the rest with seasoned vets, and resigned draftees on second maybe third contracts.

So what you are saying is drafting 1 Elite talent in 3 years isn't too bad, right? Ok, because I was confused at the statement that Elway hasn't drafted any elite talent OTHER than Von Miller in the 3 years he's been in charge.

[luckyseven]

So what you are saying is drafting 1 Elite talent in 3 years isn't too bad, right? Ok, because I was confused at the statement that Elway hasn't drafted any elite talent OTHER than Von Miller in the 3 years he's been in charge.

off hand I'd say that looks to be par for the course. considering the draft position maybe even below par.

[dogfish]

How many elite players should Elway have drafted over the three years?

moar!

[TXBRONC]

Should Bowlen fire Elway if the Broncos don't win the Super Bowl next season?

[Pudge]

Should Bowlen fire Elway if the Broncos don't win the Super Bowl next season?

I can't believe he still has a job

[TXBRONC]

I can't believe he still has a job

Neither can I.

[OrangeHoof]

I've been toying with the feasibility of trading Von to Houston for Andre Johnson and their third round choice (the first of the third round). It would be an enormous risk and particularly too costly but the Broncos have three ways to win - Johnson could be the offensive weapon that makes the Broncos unstoppable, Miller could get suspended or the third-rounder can be a producer, possibly even a pass-rusher to replace Miller. But Miller could also get himself clean, heal his knee and the Broncos would be left with an old, expensive receiver and a questionable rookie. Like I said, very risky but also a short-term push that helps their Super Bowl chances.

[Buff]

I've been toying with the feasibility of trading Von to Houston for Andre Johnson and their third round choice (the first of the third round). It would be an enormous risk and particularly too costly but the Broncos have three ways to win - Johnson could be the offensive weapon that makes the Broncos unstoppable, Miller could get suspended or the third-rounder can be a producer, possibly even a pass-rusher to replace Miller. But Miller could also get himself clean, heal his knee and the Broncos would be left with an old, expensive receiver and a questionable rookie. Like I said, very risky but also a short-term push that helps their Super Bowl chances.

Andre Johnson is 32 years old, and has chronic injury problems. Miller is 24 years old. Assuming the Broncos wanted to make such a silly deal (no offense), Houston would have to include a 1st rounder. Granted, they likely wouldn't include the #1 overall pick... But it would take a 1st rounder.

[dogfish]

just stop!

[spikerman]

Call me stupid (I've been called worse), but I would not be upset with a trade. I simply don't trust Miller to have the common sense to stay clean.

[MOtorboat]

I've been toying with the feasibility of trading Von to Houston for Andre Johnson and their third round choice (the first of the third round). It would be an enormous risk and particularly too costly but the Broncos have three ways to win - Johnson could be the offensive weapon that makes the Broncos unstoppable, Miller could get suspended or the third-rounder can be a producer, possibly even a pass-rusher to replace Miller. But Miller could also get himself clean, heal his knee and the Broncos would be left with an old, expensive receiver and a questionable rookie. Like I said, very risky but also a short-term push that helps their Super Bowl chances.

If Denver can't afford to pay Decker, how could they afford to pay Johnson? Might as well sign Decker and keep Miller.

[underrated29]

Call me stupid (I've been called worse), but I would not be upset with a trade. I simply don't trust Miller to have the common sense to stay clean.



What compensation? Say a team like jax... Their first and a player? But maybe he is worth less because issues....but his play is worth so much more...

[Buff]

just stop!

Meh - the off season is boring. I kind of like thinking about players' hypothetical values, no matter how unlikely they are to be dealt.

What if the 49ers called and wanted Manning? I may start a thread...

[spikerman]

What compensation? Say a team like jax... Their first and a player? But maybe he is worth less because issues....but his play is worth so much more...
I'll admit that I haven't really thought much about compensation, but I agree that his play is worth more than the Broncos could get for him - if, that is, he's on the field.

[Nomad]

Keep your great defensive players intact to become a great defense! Obviously, the greatest offense is no match for a great defense. Right now, Manning needs blockers, not more weapons.

[Simple Jaded]

Houston would jump all over that deal.

[OrangeHoof]

If Denver can't afford to pay Decker, how could they afford to pay Johnson? Might as well sign Decker and keep Miller.

Because you couldn't keep both. You would use Miller's future salary to pay for Johnson, not Decker's. But you wouldn't do this deal unless you thought Miller was going to slip again and get suspended. Otherwise, it's not a good deal. Like I said R I S K Y.

[MOtorboat]

Because you couldn't keep both. You would use Miller's future salary to pay for Johnson, not Decker's. But you wouldn't do this deal unless you thought Miller was going to slip again and get suspended. Otherwise, it's not a good deal. Like I said R I S K Y.

But Denver's decision on Decker isn't exclusively, or really related at all for that matter, to Miller's potential deal.

In the short term, paying Johnson over Miller puts a hit on the cap, and you lose BOTH your young receiver and your young pass rusher/defensive stud.

There's no way I see that as ever being a good deal for Denver.

Denver has receivers anyway, Johnson wouldn't be much of a difference maker, and losing Miller would be a big hit for the play on defense.

[DenBronx]

I hate the idea of losing Miller.


Just want the guy to straighten up and stay out of trouble. When he is healthy he is the NFLs best OLB. Period!

[MOtorboat]

I hate the idea of losing Miller.


Just want the guy to straighten up and stay out of trouble. When he is healthy he is the NFLs best OLB. Period!

He's the NFL's best edge player. Period. (Position be damned)

[spikerman]

He's the NFL's best edge player. Period. (Position be damned)

I think that's debatable, but assuming it's true, he's not the best edge player if he's not on the field.

[MOtorboat]

I think that's debatable, but assuming it's true, he's not the best edge player if he's not on the field.

True.

He's also not Denver's best defensive player if he's traded :)

[spikerman]

True.

He's also not Denver's best defensive player if he's traded :)

I can't argue with that. If I knew that he was going to keep his nose clean (and drop the weight) I'd love to have him on the team for the rest of his career. I'm only saying that I think he's a big enough risk that I would listen to offers.

[MOtorboat]

I can't argue with that. If I knew that he was going to keep his nose clean (and drop the weight) I'd love to have him on the team for the rest of his career. I'm only saying that I think he's a big enough risk that I would listen to offers.

That leaves you shopping him when his value is at its lowest. Injured and one step short of a year-long suspension.

There's no way Denver gets $1 for $1 value for Miller right now.

[spikerman]

That leaves you shopping him when his value is at its lowest. Injured and one step short of a year-long suspension.

There's no way Denver gets $1 for $1 value for Miller right now.

I have no doubt that his value is low right now, but I would at least listen. If somebody surprises me with a decent deal then I jump on it and give Von ShaneFalco's address on his way out of town. I would move on, hopefully with a player with more common sense than a pet rock.

[luckyseven]

I can't argue with that. If I knew that he was going to keep his nose clean (and drop the WEED) I'd love to have him on the team for the rest of his career. I'm only saying that I think he's a big enough risk that I would listen to offers.

fixed that for you.

[Lancane]

How many elite players should Elway have drafted over the three years?

I think the point went over your head bro, it's not the amount of elite in question. but if you eliminate Miller from his draft record then it could easily be said that Denver has had less then ideal drafts over the course of the past three off-seasons (I think most of us would agree with that) and in that just as some new regimes are tied to new quarterbacks they draft, Elway is so tied to Von Miller and he won't easily part with the best draftee he has selected to date, at least not without what would likely be asinine compensation.

[Northman]

I can't argue with that. If I knew that he was going to keep his nose clean (and drop the weight) I'd love to have him on the team for the rest of his career. I'm only saying that I think he's a big enough risk that I would listen to offers.

Elway would be an idiot not too keep that option open.

[WARHORSE]

Even if Von gets suspended, that means his money comes off the books. If he gets suspended in the offseason, then we have extra dollars to throw around either to start the season or at the trade deadline (suspended players don't count against the cap unless they have pro-rated bonus money left, and Von's rookie contract does not IIRC). Remember all the buzz about adding Jaren Allen? If Von is gone we'll have several million bucks available to spend.

I believe Von would ALSO lose out on free agency after the year due to this suspension - his contract with us would be automatically extended by a year due to his suspension (his team is not penalized for his actions other than losing the services of the player. It works like a contract holdout where the next year "vests" automatically because the player chose not to fulfill his contract to the team).

Somebody who's better with salary cap ramifications can feel free to correct me, but if:

a) A year of awesome Von is better than whatever else we could get, and
b) A year or partial year of mediocre Von is still basically worth his contract, and
c) If Von screws up this offseason and gets suspended for a year it doesn't hurt our cap figure AND gives us another year of Von control...

Then what's the problem?

~G

A guy like Von Miller you build your defense around. The man can play anywhere from play to play along the front seven.

So missing him for a partial year.....imo....is devastating.

He is the big play. The gamechanger.

BUT, on the bench he is still a gamechanger because he will be a waste of money AND time.


My hope is Von stays and PLAYS.

But I would trade him straight up for Jimmy Graham right now and give Graham the big TE money. And draft defense.

Why Graham? Because hes a difference maker like Von and Id rather take that then a maybe.

[artie_dale]

I think of guys like Von Miller as a person with "tunnel vision". His inability to think outside the box or at the bigger picture, will likely cause him to run into a wall that he won't be able to get around because of his inability to understand what it is and why its even there.

These guys have had everything handed to them ever since high school (well, everything that had to do with education and some living). For a guy to try to go to the same place as the team that just showed his team up... what is he looking for? What is he going to get out of it? There are PLENTY of other places he can go, why that one? Just like, of all the times out of the year he can smoke weed, he chose to smoke during the time right around league testing. Why??? Why instead of accepting the consequences did he do so much to try to get away with being caught? Why didn't he just go get his license so he can drive legally? Why did he continue to drive after the first and second time of being pulled over without a license?

So many little things add up, and that is what worries me. Drives without a license and gets caught & continues to drive without a license and gets caught, smokes weed and tests positive & continues to smoke weed and test positive (had to have tested positive more than once before we fans hear anything about it).

He was my favorite draftee in a long time. But, just like a lot of people don't expect him to fully recover from his knee injury and return to form, I don't expect his personality to all of a sudden drastically change and he live his life outside of stupid decisions.

The way I see it, this past season being his 3rd year as a professional, It Is What It Is. So, we can hope that these poor decisions were just simply that, poor decisions made by a young guy... OR, we can accept that what he was this past season is who he really is.

[luckyseven]

I think of guys like Von Miller as a person with "tunnel vision". His inability to think outside the box or at the bigger picture, will likely cause him to run into a wall that he won't be able to get around because of his inability to understand what it is and why its even there.

These guys have had everything handed to them ever since high school (well, everything that had to do with education and some living). For a guy to try to go to the same place as the team that just showed his team up... what is he looking for? What is he going to get out of it? There are PLENTY of other places he can go, why that one? Just like, of all the times out of the year he can smoke weed, he chose to smoke during the time right around league testing. Why??? Why instead of accepting the consequences did he do so much to try to get away with being caught? Why didn't he just go get his license so he can drive legally? Why did he continue to drive after the first and second time of being pulled over without a license?

So many little things add up, and that is what worries me. Drives without a license and gets caught & continues to drive without a license and gets caught, smokes weed and tests positive & continues to smoke weed and test positive (had to have tested positive more than once before we fans hear anything about it).

He was my favorite draftee in a long time. But, just like a lot of people don't expect him to fully recover from his knee injury and return to form, I don't expect his personality to all of a sudden drastically change and he live his life outside of stupid decisions.

The way I see it, this past season being his 3rd year as a professional, It Is What It Is. So, we can hope that these poor decisions were just simply that, poor decisions made by a young guy... OR, we can accept that what he was this past season is who he really is.

Sometimes these kids GROW up into responsible adults, if he does we are better for it. if not then we missed on a chance for Darius, Jones, Watts, Smith, aj green it happens all the time. when he was drafted and after his first year everyone hailed him the next Derick Thomas, who BTW died a dumb death.

[Buff]

I think of guys like Von Miller as a person with "tunnel vision". His inability to think outside the box or at the bigger picture, will likely cause him to run into a wall that he won't be able to get around because of his inability to understand what it is and why its even there.

These guys have had everything handed to them ever since high school (well, everything that had to do with education and some living). For a guy to try to go to the same place as the team that just showed his team up... what is he looking for? What is he going to get out of it? There are PLENTY of other places he can go, why that one? Just like, of all the times out of the year he can smoke weed, he chose to smoke during the time right around league testing. Why??? Why instead of accepting the consequences did he do so much to try to get away with being caught? Why didn't he just go get his license so he can drive legally? Why did he continue to drive after the first and second time of being pulled over without a license?

So many little things add up, and that is what worries me. Drives without a license and gets caught & continues to drive without a license and gets caught, smokes weed and tests positive & continues to smoke weed and test positive (had to have tested positive more than once before we fans hear anything about it).

He was my favorite draftee in a long time. But, just like a lot of people don't expect him to fully recover from his knee injury and return to form, I don't expect his personality to all of a sudden drastically change and he live his life outside of stupid decisions.

The way I see it, this past season being his 3rd year as a professional, It Is What It Is. So, we can hope that these poor decisions were just simply that, poor decisions made by a young guy... OR, we can accept that what he was this past season is who he really is.

I don't disagree with anything you said... But I am reminded of the Brandon Marshall situation.

Somewhere along the way he made the decision to get help and has done a complete 180. I would have thought that to be impossible in his last year here. Hopefully Von has a similar epiphany.

[luckyseven]

I don't disagree with anything you said... But I am reminded of the Brandon Marshall situation.

Somewhere along the way he made the decision to get help and has done a complete 180. I would have thought that to be impossible in his last year here. Hopefully Von has a similar epiphany.

we can only hope he does the same, if he can get past his own ego and dependency he can be the best.