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View Full Version : Terrance Knighton wants more money.



BroncoWave
02-11-2014, 09:35 AM
Yet another reason why it's so difficult to get back to a Super Bowl. So many players want more money after it.

From Brandon Krisztal on Twitter:


A source close to #Broncos DT Terrance Knighton told me he & his reps feel he's outperformed his contract & seeks a new deal

CoachChaz
02-11-2014, 09:47 AM
He's probably right.

BroncoWave
02-11-2014, 09:49 AM
He's probably right.

He's definitely right. We're probably going to lose some quality guys this offseason. Just not enough money to go around.

CoachChaz
02-11-2014, 09:52 AM
He's definitely right. We're probably going to lose some quality guys this offseason. Just not enough money to go around.

I think we just have to be smart about it and we'll be fine

vettesplus
02-11-2014, 10:20 AM
my response to some of these guys would be, " don't ask for a raise til you win one"!!! they should take a pay cut for sucking so bad.

7DnBrnc53
02-11-2014, 10:23 AM
my response to some of these guys would be, " don't ask for a raise til you win one"!!! they should take a pay cut for sucking so bad.

Knighton didn't suck. The O-line sucked, and the offense in general.

Northman
02-11-2014, 10:25 AM
Knighton was far from sucking this year. Hard to argue paying the man more money.

BroncoWave
02-11-2014, 10:26 AM
my response to some of these guys would be, " don't ask for a raise til you win one"!!! they should take a pay cut for sucking so bad.

Then you would be left wondering where all the talent on your team went and why you are out of a GM job. But at least you could say you stuck by your guns!

Buff
02-11-2014, 10:26 AM
Too bad - he's not getting a new deal before this year - especially given that he was only on a two year contract anyway. General Managers dream of signing free agent defensive tackles and having them outperform their deal.

CoachChaz
02-11-2014, 10:50 AM
While I agree that he is right in the sense he outplayed his contract, I'm not one for rewarding players for ONE year of excellence. If he had been worth this much before this season, he would have been offered and signed to a better deal.

GEM
02-11-2014, 11:02 AM
While he did perform very well, he was one team away from no NFL career. Perform well for 2 years and you'll get your deal.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 11:06 AM
Terrance Knighton is due a little over 2.5 million this upcoming year and he's entering his 6th Season. 2013 wasn't his best year statistically, it's his second best though.

Compared to the likes of Marcell Dareus, Nick Fairley, Ndamukong Suh, Kyle Williams, Ahtyba Rubin, Geno Atkins, Randy Starks, Haloti Ngata and so forth, his stats are more akin to second tier defensive tackles not elite, he's more or less in the same category as Domata Peko, Phil Taylor, Stephen Paea and the like. His current salary is comparable to his peers that are comparable to his output. I don't believe he's worth 6 million plus a season like Randy Starks and company. I do believe that Denver would be smart to lock him down for the next three to four years due to his production throughout his career and youth, when you look at his stats he's only had one unproductive year and he's arguably the best defensive tackle the Broncos have had since Pryce moved inside and better then those who manned the middle during our back-to-back Super Bowl Championships of the late 90's.

The Broncos would be smart to give him a contract extension that boosted his base to about 3 mil with more incentives and bonuses.

TXBRONC
02-11-2014, 11:08 AM
I don't see Elway giving him a new deal this year.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 11:10 AM
While he did perform very well, he was one team away from no NFL career. Perform well for 2 years and you'll get your deal.

That is untrue GEM, he was benched in 2012 due to his behavior, even then he was productive, the year before he was hampered by injury and it was statistically his worst season since being drafted. He's been a starter for most of his career and has been about on even keel in overall production. As I pointed out above, he is literally the best interior lineman the Broncos have had on defense in what, three decades? And his stats support that - I'm not saying to pay him 8 million a season, he's not elite, but he is above average and that is something Denver is not use to, we're all use to below average.

Buff
02-11-2014, 11:10 AM
Terrance Knighton is due a little over 2.5 million this upcoming year and he's entering his 6th Season. 2013 wasn't his best year statistically, it's his second best though.

Compared to the likes of Marcell Dareus, Nick Fairley, Ndamukong Suh, Kyle Williams, Ahtyba Rubin, Geno Atkins, Randy Starks, Haloti Ngata and so forth, his stats are more akin to second tier defensive tackles not elite, he's more or less in the same category as Domata Peko, Phil Taylor, Stephen Paea and the like. His current salary is comparable to his peers that are comparable to his output. I don't believe he's worth 6 million plus a season like Randy Starks and company. I do believe that Denver would be smart to lock him down for the next three to four years due to his production throughout his career and youth, when you look at his stats he's only had one unproductive year and he's arguably the best defensive tackle the Broncos have had since Pryce moved inside and better then those who manned the middle during our back-to-back Super Bowl Championships of the late 90's.

The Broncos would be smart to give him a contract extension that boosted his base to about 3 mil with more incentives and bonuses.

Knighton has always struggled with his weight. Jacksonville wasn't really trying to keep him. I worry about paying a guy after one good year - especially someone who has struggled to stay in shape.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 11:15 AM
I don't see Elway giving him a new deal this year.

I think Elway is going to surprise some of us regarding this, because next off-season will be a free agent nightmare for the organization. I don't expect them to give Miller, Welker or Franklin new contracts at this time for various reasons, but there is an argument to signing your best Wide Receiver, Tight End and Defensive Tackle so not to lose your core in a year that will leave the team depleted.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 11:20 AM
Knighton has always struggled with his weight. Jacksonville wasn't really trying to keep him. I worry about paying a guy after one good year - especially someone who has struggled to stay in shape.

He's struggled to maintain certain weight, but that is something that could literally be misconstrued due to the staff of each team. Del Rio wanted him in Denver and he wanted to come to Denver, so it could be said that it was that staff - the same staff fired a year later. And beside that it never effected his production. And the NFL is about production. Let's be honest, Vickerson has had weight issues himself as have other well known defensive tackles, but if we keep playing musical defensive lineman, well then who the hell of any caliber would want to come here?

GEM
02-11-2014, 11:21 AM
That is untrue GEM, he was benched in 2012 due to his behavior, even then he was productive, the year before he was hampered by injury and it was statistically his worst season since being drafted. He's been a starter for most of his career and has been about on even keel in overall production. As I pointed out above, he is literally the best interior lineman the Broncos have had on defense in what, three decades? And his stats support that - I'm not saying to pay him 8 million a season, he's not elite, but he is above average and that is something Denver is not use to, we're all use to below average.

He was an issue on the team he was on and didn't start out here on the best footing. Many said he was lazy and that not much had improved in his attitude in changing teams. Then the light bulb went off and he got his shit together. Does that garner changing the contract HE signed? Nope. If he can continue on the good path and not go back to his old ways over a 2 year period...he has earned a new contract. Until then, he's under contract at an amount that at one time he thought worthy.

BroncoWave
02-11-2014, 11:28 AM
He was an issue on the team he was on and didn't start out here on the best footing. Many said he was lazy and that not much had improved in his attitude in changing teams. Then the light bulb went off and he got his shit together. Does that garner changing the contract HE signed? Nope. If he can continue on the good path and not go back to his old ways over a 2 year period...he has earned a new contract. Until then, he's under contract at an amount that at one time he thought worthy.

So we have now heard stories of Del Rio, Knighton, and Mincey being lazy in Jacksonville. Is it just me, or does there seem a common theme here? Eventually it seems like you just have to ignore any shortcomings a guy had in Jacksonville, because clearly once people leave there that changes.

GEM
02-11-2014, 11:35 AM
So we have now heard stories of Del Rio, Knighton, and Mincey being lazy in Jacksonville. Is it just me, or does there seem a common theme here? Eventually it seems like you just have to ignore any shortcomings a guy had in Jacksonville, because clearly once people leave there that changes.

But it took some time here. There were questions if he was even going to make the team.

I know he played great and has he possibly earned a relook...possibly. But with all the other things on going, not sure if that's something we should be focusing or spending money on. If it happens, cool. I would like to hang on to him. It wouldn't make me angry or anything, I just hope that he isn't the type that he gets the money and goes back to being lazy. His MO has been more his last 6 problem years than his 1 good year.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 11:37 AM
He was an issue on the team he was on and didn't start out here on the best footing. Many said he was lazy and that not much had improved in his attitude in changing teams. Then the light bulb went off and he got his shit together. Does that garner changing the contract HE signed? Nope. If he can continue on the good path and not go back to his old ways over a 2 year period...he has earned a new contract. Until then, he's under contract at an amount that at one time he thought worthy.

That's a fair argument, if we're basing it off attitude, but from a production standpoint I believe he's earned it. And I suspect all the media coverage he received will cause him to be a bit more copasetic in regards to his attitude dilemma, not only that but he's earned a bunch of respect around the NFL and I don't think he wants to lose that. According to several defensive personnel, Knighton took the leadership role late in the season about the time the defense improved as well. So I guess I could see them going either way.

What does concern me is say that he keeps on track, the Broncos are headed for roster disaster at this rate, you don't want to have multiple core players, the best you have become free agents on a yearly basis and Denver next year, well it's three times worse then this off-season. And if Elway allows them to test the market to set their price tags like he is doing this year, then the Broncos could be closer to a rebuilding mode then as a competitor.

GEM
02-11-2014, 11:42 AM
That's a fair argument, if we're basing it off attitude, but from a production standpoint I believe he's earned it. And I suspect all the media coverage he received will cause him to be a bit more copasetic in regards to his attitude dilemma, not only that but he's earned a bunch of respect around the NFL and I don't think he wants to lose that. According to several defensive personnel, Knighton took the leadership role late in the season about the time the defense improved as well. So I guess I could see them going either way.

What does concern me is say that he keeps on track, the Broncos are headed for roster disaster at this rate, you don't want to have multiple core players, the best you have become free agents on a yearly basis and Denver next year, well it's three times worse then this off-season. And if Elway allows them to test the market to set their price tags like he is doing this year, then the Broncos could be closer to a rebuilding mode then as a competitor.

I already think we're at rebuilding. I know that isn't going to be popular sentiment around here, but this past season was "THE" year. Now it gets ugly. Salary cap casualties will take a toll on this team that was built to win this past season. Now too many moving parts are going to probably do us in.

I hope that's wrong, but I just don't see getting our starters back as enough when we start losing players to money issues. That's part of the black cloud of having an all-time offense...those players will be overvalued and we will lose some just because we won't and can't overpay them. Is Decker as good as he is with the Broncos somewhere else...I don't think so, but someone will pay him like he is. Same with Beadles. (Even though he's already not that good even with the Broncos, except for pulling guard, he's damn good at that)

Buff
02-11-2014, 11:44 AM
He's struggled to maintain certain weight, but that is something that could literally be misconstrued due to the staff of each team. Del Rio wanted him in Denver and he wanted to come to Denver, so it could be said that it was that staff - the same staff fired a year later. And beside that it never effected his production. And the NFL is about production. Let's be honest, Vickerson has had weight issues himself as have other well known defensive tackles, but if we keep playing musical defensive lineman, well then who the hell of any caliber would want to come here?

The guy had a career year and got more national exposure than ever before. His stock is at an all time high. It's bad business to give him a new deal right now when we have him at a discount.

BroncoNut
02-11-2014, 11:46 AM
cue Gloria Bunker

"of course he does, we all do"

Lancane
02-11-2014, 12:02 PM
I already think we're at rebuilding. I know that isn't going to be popular sentiment around here, but this past season was "THE" year. Now it gets ugly. Salary cap casualties will take a toll on this team that was built to win this past season. Now too many moving parts are going to probably do us in.

I hope that's wrong, but I just don't see getting our starters back as enough when we start losing players to money issues. That's part of the black cloud of having an all-time offense...those players will be overvalued and we will lose some just because we won't and can't overpay them. Is Decker as good as he is with the Broncos somewhere else...I don't think so, but someone will pay him like he is. Same with Beadles. (Even though he's already not that good even with the Broncos, except for pulling guard, he's damn good at that)

I think what is about to come into play will have people questioning the validity of Elway in a GM role to be honest. Despite his prowess in Free Agency, since parting with Brian Xanders, Denver's drafts have produced less production and starters then when Xanders was GM. In fact, even though many Broncos' fans dislike Brian Xanders there could be an argument made that even though he capitulated to McDaniels in his dismantling of the Broncos that he was a far better General Manager then we might have expected, especially considering the core of this roster, those who make it as good as it is were drafted under his watch. Since then Denver drafts could be said to have become weaker or less productive to put it nicely. Not that they've been awful, but neither have they been great and if you take Manning out of the equation then the questions would have arisen sooner rather then later.

I think 2015 is going to be a major stepping stone in one direction or another, Manning I feel will have to part from the team - his salary is far too much right now with Denver's core getting ready to come undone and to maintain some sort of semblance with the fans, keeping Manning as the core falls apart could put him on the outs with the fan base, as much as we love and respect Manning, he's not Elway, Atwater, Mecklenberg, Davis, Sharpe, Jackson, he's on his last leg looking for a title, but he's not homegrown as best to describe it and Plummer suffered that as well and that made a difference to some. Personally, if Elway is smart he'll lock up as much as the core as possible in order to maintain that semblance or we'll be in for a complete rebuild.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 12:07 PM
The guy had a career year and got more national exposure than ever before. His stock is at an all time high. It's bad business to give him a new deal right now when we have him at a discount.

He did not have a career year, it was his second best season since entering the league and he's stayed pretty consistent in production give the year he suffered injuries and being benched part of the following season. And let me ask you this Buff, what if he has a better year next year? How do the Broncos pay him then when they will be forced to face the possible losses of Miller, Franklin, Welker, J. Thomas, D. Thomas and others entering free agency?

It's not bad business, they could go either way and I understand, but to be cheapskates and thrifty in the sport is even worse for business.

GEM
02-11-2014, 12:08 PM
I think what is about to come into play will have people questioning the validity of Elway in a GM role to be honest. Despite his prowess in Free Agency, since parting with Brian Xanders, Denver's drafts have produced less production and starters then when Xanders was GM. In fact, even though many Broncos' fans dislike Brian Xanders there could be an argument made that even though he capitulated to McDaniels in his dismantling of the Broncos that he was a far better General Manager then we might have expected, especially considering the core of this roster, those who make it as good as it is were drafted under his watch. Since then Denver drafts could be said to have become weaker or less productive to put it nicely. Not that they've been awful, but neither have they been great and if you take Manning out of the equation then the questions would have arisen sooner rather then later.

I think 2015 is going to be a major stepping stone in one direction or another, Manning I feel will have to part from the team - his salary is far too much right now with Denver's core getting ready to come undone and to maintain some sort of semblance with the fans, keeping Manning as the core falls apart could put him on the outs with the fan base, as much as we love and respect Manning, he's not Elway, Atwater, Mecklenberg, Davis, Sharpe, Jackson, he's on his last leg looking for a title, but he's not homegrown as best to describe it and Plummer suffered that as well and that made a difference to some. Personally, if Elway is smart he'll lock up as much as the core as possible in order to maintain that semblance or we'll be in for a complete rebuild.

I've said and have been laughed at that Manning needs to restructure...if he isn't willing, then it is perhaps time to reconsider if we are playing for right now and screw the future. We lose a lot of the core and then Manning leaves and where are we left? Ugh...

BroncoWave
02-11-2014, 12:08 PM
Man, fans complained for YEARS about how much we ignored the DT position and how badly we needed a good one. Now we have a VERY good one, and seems like most everyone would be happy enough seeing him play out his last year then sign somewhere else for more.

GEM
02-11-2014, 12:09 PM
He did not have a career year, it was his second best season since entering the league and he's stayed pretty consistent in production give the year he suffered injuries and being benched part of the following season. And let me ask you this Buff, what if he has a better year next year? How do the Broncos pay him then when they will be forced to face the possible losses of Miller, Franklin, Welker, J. Thomas, D. Thomas and others entering free agency?

It's not bad business, they could go either way and I understand, but to be cheapskates and thrifty in the sport is even worse for business.

Is it being a cheapskate when we have so many other things on the table? I don't think that's the right word, we just don't have the spending prowess and ability to get it done, not with everything else already on the table.

BroncoNut
02-11-2014, 12:09 PM
I hope we can swing a deal to keep his big fatass in Denver for another year

GEM
02-11-2014, 12:11 PM
Man, fans complained for YEARS about how much we ignored the DT position and how badly we needed a good one. Now we have a VERY good one, and seems like most everyone would be happy enough seeing him play out his last year then sign somewhere else for more.

I don't want to see him sign elsewhere. I just don't know if we have the ability to sign a bigger contract to a guy already under contract when we have so many contracts expiring and having to sign. If we don't pay him much more, we could probably get it done, if he's looking for big money....so are 21 other guys that are actually in contract year while he's not.

jhildebrand
02-11-2014, 12:15 PM
He was projected by many at the break of camp to be cut. Now he wants to get paid. He saw the writing on the wall at some point and decided he was going to get it together. Good for him. By the end of the post season he was a force. But I fear the 'Shaun Alexander' effect with this guy if you pay him now because he has shown that lazy streak. Play it out and let him go elsewhere. That is how the Pats and Steelers remained dominant for so long.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 12:20 PM
I've said and have been laughed at that Manning needs to restructure...if he isn't willing, then it is perhaps time to reconsider if we are playing for right now and screw the future. We lose a lot of the core and then Manning leaves and where are we left? Ugh...

Elway will be left holding that bag, as much as I love and respect him like all other Broncos' fans. It may be for the best should that happen, because he'll then realize that he actually needs a qualified General Manager and that Coach Fox despite the record is not the right coach for the job. Without Manning the Broncos are closer to a .500 club, we lose the core of this team, even if they keep Manning, we'll be a .500 team that should have fewer wins then even that on principal. I agree with you that certain fans shrug off what the Broncos as an organization are soon going to face, but that is not surprising either, after all there has long been dissension between the rational members of the base and those who are blind and loyal beyond reason.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 12:33 PM
Is it being a cheapskate when we have so many other things on the table? I don't think that's the right word, we just don't have the spending prowess and ability to get it done, not with everything else already on the table.

GEM, we've long been considered one of the thriftiest teams in the league, we also have been able to continuously put descent teams on the field which was overloaded with capable players, but not much in the way of talent, especially elite talent. When you think about the Broncos who won a Super Bowl, there was a lot of elite talent that was grown in Denver; Elway, Sharpe, Davis, Smith, Nalen, Mobley and Atwater, Think about what elite talent the Broncos had in the 00's, we had Wilson and Bailey, that was pretty much it. Eventually we had Marshall, but we've been depleted of elite talent and part of that is due to holding back the checkbook in order to save a dime. Not since our last Super Bowl Championship have we had as much talent as we do now, and what is the process to maintaining that? You have to spend to keep a core and continually move the other pieces around them through the draft and continue to do that.

BroncoNut
02-11-2014, 12:35 PM
GEM, we've long been considered one of the thriftiest teams in the league, we also have been able to continuously put descent teams on the field which was overloaded with capable players, but not much in the way of talent, especially elite talent. When you think about the Broncos who won a Super Bowl, there was a lot of elite talent that was grown in Denver; Elway, Sharpe, Davis, Smith, Nalen, Mobley and Atwater, Think about what elite talent the Broncos had in the 00's, we had Wilson and Bailey, that was pretty much it. Eventually we had Marshall, but we've been depleted of elite talent and part of that is due to holding back the checkbook in order to save a dime. Not since our last Super Bowl Championship have we had as much talent as we do now, and what is the process to maintaining that? You have to spend to keep a core and continually move the other pieces around them through the draft and continue to do that.

decent

jhildebrand
02-11-2014, 12:46 PM
we've been depleted of elite talent and part of that is due to holding back the checkbook in order to save a dime

I think you are either revising history a bit or glossing over it a bit, Lancane. This team had no choice but to reign in the spending after almost a decade of a policy of an open checkbook for Shanny in FA. That policy is the reason the Broncos found themselves in the situation they were in. He was spending big on FA's whose bust status was bigger than their contracts time and again all while basically ignoring that side of the ball in the draft. The problem was compounded with the firing of Shanahan shortly after an extension requiring the payment of multiple Head Coaches.

I will argue that at times Bowlen has had cashflow problems but it is a very hard argument to make that the man has ever been cheap.



. Not since our last Super Bowl Championship have we had as much talent as we do now, and what is the process to maintaining that? You have to spend to keep a core and continually move the other pieces around them through the draft and continue to do that.

The Pats rarely spent in similar situations. In fact, if they didn't get a hometown discount, the player was usually gone and replaced. The problem for Denver is the Defense has been ignored for so long when it comes to the higher rounds of the draft and compounded by the revolving door at the D Coordinator position. The NFL is a league where you don't find elite talent on the D in FA. You have to grow it and that takes time.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 12:48 PM
He was projected by many at the break of camp to be cut. Now he wants to get paid. He saw the writing on the wall at some point and decided he was going to get it together. Good for him. By the end of the post season he was a force. But I fear the 'Shaun Alexander' effect with this guy if you pay him now because he has shown that lazy streak. Play it out and let him go elsewhere. That is how the Pats and Steelers remained dominant for so long.

That's strange, he was inked and labeled the starter next to Vickerson from day one and that never changed as far as I knew. Funny how Knighton who was praised by Elway since signing him was on the verge of being cut, never having to earn his way in the starting lineup, he was just kept there despite all that. So confusing to me...

Lancane
02-11-2014, 12:57 PM
I think you are either revising history a bit or glossing over it a bit, Lancane. This team had no choice but to reign in the spending after almost a decade of a policy of an open checkbook for Shanny in FA. That policy is the reason the Broncos found themselves in the situation they were in. He was spending big on FA's whose bust status was bigger than their contracts time and again all while basically ignoring that side of the ball in the draft. The problem was compounded with the firing of Shanahan shortly after an extension requiring the payment of multiple Head Coaches.

I will argue that at times Bowlen has had cashflow problems but it is a very hard argument to make that the man has ever been cheap.

The Pats rarely spent in similar situations. In fact, if they didn't get a hometown discount, the player was usually gone and replaced. The problem for Denver is the Defense has been ignored for so long when it comes to the higher rounds of the draft and compounded by the revolving door at the D Coordinator position. The NFL is a league where you don't find elite talent on the D in FA. You have to grow it and that takes time.

Jhil, despite the hee-hawing of Bowlenites, the fact remains that Denver has long had a problem with maintaining a level of any more then average to mediocre talent. It could be argued that without Shanahan for those years we win less then half our games a season. And while Shanahan had overspent at times, Denver was continually noted for having a lot of room under the cap, we're not the only team - that is why now teams now have to spend so much of the cap, what is it, 98 or 99 percent? I'm not arguing that Denver had a bad policy, but even drafted talent of some repute was allowed to walk in favor of saving a penny or two.

The Pats also knew how to draft and maintain above average and elite talent, especially defensively which is ironic because now they can not maintain a cold. They maintained a core and moved players around that core to continually win. And who gives a damn about the Pats or Steelers even? Both have become so depleted that they are starting to struggle to keep atop even their divisions.

GEM
02-11-2014, 01:14 PM
GEM, we've long been considered one of the thriftiest teams in the league, we also have been able to continuously put descent teams on the field which was overloaded with capable players, but not much in the way of talent, especially elite talent. When you think about the Broncos who won a Super Bowl, there was a lot of elite talent that was grown in Denver; Elway, Sharpe, Davis, Smith, Nalen, Mobley and Atwater, Think about what elite talent the Broncos had in the 00's, we had Wilson and Bailey, that was pretty much it. Eventually we had Marshall, but we've been depleted of elite talent and part of that is due to holding back the checkbook in order to save a dime. Not since our last Super Bowl Championship have we had as much talent as we do now, and what is the process to maintaining that? You have to spend to keep a core and continually move the other pieces around them through the draft and continue to do that.

So...it would be nice to see their list of priorities. :) Can you put a call into Elway and make that happen? Thanks!

GEM
02-11-2014, 01:23 PM
That's strange, he was inked and labeled the starter next to Vickerson from day one and that never changed as far as I knew. Funny how Knighton who was praised by Elway since signing him was on the verge of being cut, never having to earn his way in the starting lineup, he was just kept there despite all that. So confusing to me...

He's right, Cane. Numerous reports during camp had Knighton not even making the team. Reports were he was lazy and didn't provide the footwork needed in order to crack the starting lineup. He really didn't get put in there on a full time basis until Wolfe went down. That's when he really stepped up and you started hearing his name in the news.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 01:26 PM
He's right, Cane. Numerous reports during camp had Knighton not even making the team. Reports were he was lazy and didn't provide the footwork needed in order to crack the starting lineup. He really didn't get put in there on a full time basis until Wolfe went down. That's when he really stepped up and you started hearing his name in the news.

I'm not arguing the truthfulness of his statement, just laughing and mocking the contradictory that I've heard from the front office or coaching staff or other sources that is all.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 01:31 PM
So...it would be nice to see their list of priorities. :) Can you put a call into Elway and make that happen? Thanks!

Yeah, why not...I mean it's so obvious we have an open line of communication with one another! :lol:

Then again, I could tail him to the office and use a glass marker and make the demand for such evident on his windshield, I am sure he'd be friendly and openly responsive to such!

:beer:

GEM
02-11-2014, 01:32 PM
I'm not arguing the truthfulness of his statement, just laughing and mocking the contradictory that I've heard from the front office or coaching staff or other sources that is all.

That's where I get nervous paying him the money. Is he solely motivated by money? If so, once he gets it, does his play deteriorate? I've listened to interviews with him and his words say otherwise, but his actions in the past say it's a possibility. Just makes me nervous.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 01:55 PM
That's where I get nervous paying him the money. Is he solely motivated by money? If so, once he gets it, does his play deteriorate? I've listened to interviews with him and his words say otherwise, but his actions in the past say it's a possibility. Just makes me nervous.

I can fully understand the trepidation with some character concerns, but I also wasn't saying to give him a Randy Stark comparable contract, he's not worth 8 million a year. But to lock him down for a few seasons with a reasonable contract that has incentives and bonuses laced into the overall deal itself and would appeal to his fiscal desires but based on his production and behavior, etc.

Tned
02-11-2014, 02:08 PM
Knighton was far from sucking this year. Hard to argue paying the man more money.

Except for two things.

1. He signed that contract because things went south in Jax and he lost his starting job.
2. Would he have given back part of his '13 salary if he had under performed?

Now, if the Broncos want to extend him, as he's only 27 or so, this is a good time, but I don't have too much sympathy on the "I was underpaid" because it is directly a result of his performance before coming to Denver that resulted in him only signing the $4.5 million contract.

BroncoWave
02-11-2014, 02:13 PM
Except for two things.

1. He signed that contract because things went south in Jax and he lost his starting job.
2. Would he have given back part of his '13 salary if he had under performed?

Now, if the Broncos want to extend him, as he's only 27 or so, this is a good time, but I don't have too much sympathy on the "I was underpaid" because it is directly a result of his performance before coming to Denver that resulted in him only signing the $4.5 million contract.

I don't think he's looking for any sympathy. I think he just wants his salary to reflect his level of play with the Broncos, which I think it fair. Teams cut players when they fail to produce, so it's only fair that players ask for a little more financial security when their play warrants it.

I'm also not asking Denver to break the bank on him, but he is 27 years old and is a very solid defensive tackle. If we don't give him an extension now, I feel like he will probably look to go elsewhere after this season. I'd personally prefer to lock him up now. As Broncos fans very well know, a good DT is a hard commodity to come across.

Northman
02-11-2014, 02:26 PM
Except for two things.

1. He signed that contract because things went south in Jax and he lost his starting job.
2. Would he have given back part of his '13 salary if he had under performed?

Now, if the Broncos want to extend him, as he's only 27 or so, this is a good time, but I don't have too much sympathy on the "I was underpaid" because it is directly a result of his performance before coming to Denver that resulted in him only signing the $4.5 million contract.

I never said i have sympathy for him.

BroncoWave
02-11-2014, 02:30 PM
I never said i have sympathy for him.

Yeah, not really sure where the sympathy comment came from. It's simply business. The player wants more money, the team wants to keep him on the cheap. This is one the player always wins, because if the current team doesn't pay him, another one will. Given what a valuable commodity a good DT is, we might as well have him on our team.

CoachChaz
02-11-2014, 02:33 PM
Yeah, not really sure where the sympathy comment came from. It's simply business. The player wants more money, the team wants to keep him on the cheap. This is one the player always wins, because if the current team doesn't pay him, another one will. Given what a valuable commodity a good DT is, we might as well have him on our team.

If he can maintain this level of play, he's probably got 4-5 more good years in him. An extension wouldnt be a bad thing...especially considering our luck at that position in recent years/decades

BroncoWave
02-11-2014, 02:35 PM
If he can maintain this level of play, he's probably got 4-5 more good years in him. An extension wouldnt be a bad thing...especially considering our luck at that position in recent years/decades

And it's the NFL, so if he does suck after signing an extension, we can just cut him. It's not like the NBA where you're screwed if a player flops after signing him long-term.

Tned
02-11-2014, 02:52 PM
That's a fair argument, if we're basing it off attitude, but from a production standpoint I believe he's earned it. And I suspect all the media coverage he received will cause him to be a bit more copasetic in regards to his attitude dilemma, not only that but he's earned a bunch of respect around the NFL and I don't think he wants to lose that. According to several defensive personnel, Knighton took the leadership role late in the season about the time the defense improved as well. So I guess I could see them going either way.

What does concern me is say that he keeps on track, the Broncos are headed for roster disaster at this rate, you don't want to have multiple core players, the best you have become free agents on a yearly basis and Denver next year, well it's three times worse then this off-season. And if Elway allows them to test the market to set their price tags like he is doing this year, then the Broncos could be closer to a rebuilding mode then as a competitor.

Let's face it, while we've, the Denver fans and media, seen him produce pretty regularly on the field, and even more so after Vickerson went down, the ONLY reason he's gotten national recognition is because of the 4th down sack on Brady (even though the second down RB stop for loss setup the sack) and his nickname. It's almost a fluke that he jumped from national obscurity to one of the biggest stories of the SB.

Ziggy
02-11-2014, 03:17 PM
The Denver defense did one thing right all season, in the playoffs, and in the super bowl on defense. They shut down the run. Look at Marshawn Lynch's numbers in the super bowl. The only thing teams couldn't do against the Denver D was run up the middle. The only thing the Seahawks couldn't do on offense in the super bowl was run up the middle and unleash the Beast. Forget the stats. Knighton's value is in the double teams that he ate up and the pockets that he collapsed. He was a top 3 NT in the NFL this season, and once Vick went down he single handedly stuffed the run up the middle of our D. Was anyone else watching our DT play the last 20 years? He outplayed his contract by a mile.

Still, you don't tear up a player's contract after one good season unless you want every player on your team holding out after they've had a good season. I think that Elway tells him to do it again and he'll be rewarded.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 05:29 PM
Again, it wouldn't be so bad if Denver wasn't facing a roster holocaust in 2015. Even if you trim the fodder from the 2015 list and take in that if they don't cut or restructure Champ Bailey their will be some relief, the Broncos will be faced with Wes Welker, Demaryius Thomas, Orlando Franklin, Von Miller, Jacob Tamme, Joel Dreesen, Kevin Vickerson, Rahim Moore, Terrance Knighton, Sione Fua, Virgil Green, Julius Thomas, Quinton Carter and Nate Irving, not to mention anyone else we ink to one year deals which we do often enough (see Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Shaun Phillips). We're talking the almost all of the Defensive Tackle group give Sly Williams, the entire Tight End stable including our Pro-Bowl Starter, our starting number one and our starting slot receiver who could end up being the number two this year, our starting right tackle, the only decent safety we've drafted, our special teams standout and backup linebacker as well as the only elite talented defender Denver has drafted in three and half decades. Not that dire right?

I would blow bubbles right now at anyone who looks at that and is fine and dandy with what this team faces. Oh, and if Manning stays, his base salary jumps up a few million. But who gives a damn when we're looking at our core talent of the offense and defense.

Elway needs to get on the ball and extend some of these kids, if they are able to test the market, some of them will take the deals that give the major signing bonus upfront and the guaranteed money over the loyalty of the team, no matter the love of the fan base...this isn't the 70's, 80's and 90's.

If the Broncos brass could extend (not overpay) Knighton for three more seasons and likewise extend J. Thomas and D. Thomas, then they'll only be stuck with figuring if they should or should not give Orlando Franklin and Rahim Moore a contract and same for Von Miller, who they could end up tagging for trade purposes. If we have too many core players that franchise tag could become a lifeline have having to rebuild in too many areas otherwise. And that's just the way I see it, because I fully expect the 2015 Broncos at this rate to be a whole other team.

Buff
02-11-2014, 05:40 PM
Again, it wouldn't be so bad if Denver wasn't facing a roster holocaust in 2015. Even if you trim the fodder from the 2015 list and take in that if they don't cut or restructure Champ Bailey their will be some relief, the Broncos will be faced with Wes Welker, Demaryius Thomas, Orlando Franklin, Von Miller, Jacob Tamme, Joel Dreesen, Kevin Vickerson, Rahim Moore, Terrance Knighton, Sione Fua, Virgil Green, Julius Thomas, Quinton Carter and Nate Irving, not to mention anyone else we ink to one year deals which we do often enough (see Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Shaun Phillips). We're talking the almost all of the Defensive Tackle group give Sly Williams, the entire Tight End stable including our Pro-Bowl Starter, our starting number one and our starting slot receiver who could end up being the number two this year, our starting right tackle, the only decent safety we've drafted, our special teams standout and backup linebacker as well as the only elite talented defender Denver has drafted in three and half decades. Not that dire right?

I would blow bubbles right now at anyone who looks at that and is fine and dandy with what this team faces. Oh, and if Manning stays, his base salary jumps up a few million. But who gives a damn when we're looking at our core talent of the offense and defense.

Elway needs to get on the ball and extend some of these kids, if they are able to test the market, some of them will take the deals that give the major signing bonus upfront and the guaranteed money over the loyalty of the team, no matter the love of the fan base...this isn't the 70's, 80's and 90's.

If the Broncos brass could extend (not overpay) Knighton for three more seasons and likewise extend J. Thomas and D. Thomas, then they'll only be stuck with figuring if they should or should not give Orlando Franklin and Rahim Moore a contract and same for Von Miller, who they could end up tagging for trade purposes. If we have too many core players that franchise tag could become a lifeline have having to rebuild in too many areas otherwise. And that's just the way I see it, because I fully expect the 2015 Broncos at this rate to be a whole other team.

Everything was structured around Manning having a 3-year window to win the SB.

I am actually perfectly fine and dandy with what this team faces. Guys are going to take our money if we give it to them. It's not like we're the Browns and need to keep guys from testing the market because they'd never re-sign here.

This is infinitely preferable to panicking and locking up everybody and then sorting out dead money cap issues down the road.

Hawgdriver
02-11-2014, 05:42 PM
Let's face it, while we've, the Denver fans and media, seen him produce pretty regularly on the field, and even more so after Vickerson went down, the ONLY reason he's gotten national recognition is because of the 4th down sack on Brady (even though the second down RB stop for loss setup the sack) and his nickname. It's almost a fluke that he jumped from national obscurity to one of the biggest stories of the SB.

Exactly.

But that's what good players do, too. Chaz said it all, reward the good performance without taking on a risky contract.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 05:55 PM
Everything was structured around Manning having a 3-year window to win the SB.

I am actually perfectly fine and dandy with what this team faces. Guys are going to take our money if we give it to them. It's not like we're the Browns and need to keep guys from testing the market because they'd never re-sign here.

This is infinitely preferable to panicking and locking up everybody and then sorting out dead money cap issues down the road.

As I pointed out earlier, this organization has been known for it's thriftiness when it comes to spending money on key individuals, we're better known to overspend on unproven free agents then on those who've earned contracts within the organization, granted that it's been awhile since we had so many. But what makes you so sure that these athletes want to feel underappreciated? Because Manning is here? When they could go elsewhere and given the money they deserve? And the point of dead money would only be in contracts of individuals that the team releases, so we're going to cut J. Thomas or D. Thomas? Some of these kids have proven themselves, some contracts are based on potential that hasn't peaked but they've shown signs of on the field. And I really hate the whole Cleveland Browns argument because it's shallow and weak, their owner is responsible for the state of the franchise, if they turn it around that changes, the Browns during before the 90's were a well respected organization.

And while Manning was expected to have a three year window to win a Championship, should that also be a three year window to have to near completely rebuild? That is utterly asinine, and of course according to Elway will not be allowed to happen, he's building for the future as well as the now...so I guess we'll see.

Good for you that you're fine and dandy with the state of the Broncos after the upcoming season, I'm not and that is how I see it Buff.

Buff
02-11-2014, 06:11 PM
As I pointed out earlier, this organization has been known for it's thriftiness when it comes to spending money on key individuals, we're better known to overspend on unproven free agents then on those who've earned contracts within the organization, granted that it's been awhile since we had so many. But what makes you so sure that these athletes want to feel underappreciated? Because Manning is here? When they could go elsewhere and given the money they deserve? And the point of dead money would only be in contracts of individuals that the team releases, so we're going to cut J. Thomas or D. Thomas? Some of these kids have proven themselves, some contracts are based on potential that hasn't peaked but they've shown signs of on the field. And I really hate the whole Cleveland Browns argument because it's shallow and weak, their owner is responsible for the state of the franchise, if they turn it around that changes, the Browns during before the 90's were a well respected organization.

And while Manning was expected to have a three year window to win a Championship, should that also be a three year window to have to near completely rebuild? That is utterly asinine, and of course according to Elway will not be allowed to happen, he's building for the future as well as the now...so I guess we'll see.

Good for you that you're fine and dandy with the state of the Broncos after the upcoming season, I'm not and that is how I see it Buff.

You're going to give yourself an ulcer with all of that stress. Take a few deep breaths.

The reputation you speak of was under Shanahan/McDaniels leadership... We've done a 180 degree turn under Elway, starting with Champ's deal that McDaniels had pulled off the table.

This isn't college. Guys want to get paid, have a chance to win, and play for a coach who isn't going to run the team like a drill sergeant. We are a very attractive destination for those reasons. And we have cap room. And we have the Duke pulling the trigger. That's good enough for me.

The contracts will work themselves out.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 06:17 PM
The Denver defense did one thing right all season, in the playoffs, and in the super bowl on defense. They shut down the run. Look at Marshawn Lynch's numbers in the super bowl. The only thing teams couldn't do against the Denver D was run up the middle. The only thing the Seahawks couldn't do on offense in the super bowl was run up the middle and unleash the Beast. Forget the stats. Knighton's value is in the double teams that he ate up and the pockets that he collapsed. He was a top 3 NT in the NFL this season, and once Vick went down he single handedly stuffed the run up the middle of our D. Was anyone else watching our DT play the last 20 years? He outplayed his contract by a mile.

Still, you don't tear up a player's contract after one good season unless you want every player on your team holding out after they've had a good season. I think that Elway tells him to do it again and he'll be rewarded.

What bothers me most Zig, is that Denver could literally set themselves up for disaster in 2015, as I've said before the Super Bowl, Chris Kuper and Champ Bailey are both likely cap casualties when you look at what they'll be due this up coming season especially considering the level of contribution. We already have some quality players we're allowing to test free agency in order to set their price tag, which could easily backfire. Not everyone has a bluebook that has a set value per player per position. Chris Harris could be offered a three year 10 million dollar deal and Denver will either have to match or accept a draft pick in return, if not and Elway holds true to his one year deal mentality then it's possible that Harris joins a long list of key free agents the following off-season. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie especially considering his age could be looking at top corner money despite that he's wasn't that interested, but agents have a way of buzzing in these guy's ears and cause more harm, as we all learned with Dumervil. Denver will be in dire straights if come the 2015 off-season if the 90% of the core of the future they depended on is up for contracts, even thinking reasonably, it will be hard to keep many of them and that can set the team back. Part of the reason extensions are utilized in that business world to begin with, to alleviate facing such straights.

Lancane
02-11-2014, 06:32 PM
You're going to give yourself an ulcer with all of that stress. Take a few deep breaths.

The reputation you speak of was under Shanahan/McDaniels leadership... We've done a 180 degree turn under Elway, starting with Champ's deal that McDaniels had pulled off the table.

This isn't college. Guys want to get paid, have a chance to win, and play for a coach who isn't going to run the team like a drill sergeant. We are a very attractive destination for those reasons. And we have cap room. And we have the Duke pulling the trigger. That's good enough for me.

The contracts will work themselves out.

Buff, I'm not going to give myself an ulcer, I already have one that developed during the Super Bowl and is still agitating the **** out of me! (Kidding)

I'm just airing what I see as a possible downfall for a franchise. Granted it's not collegiate football, and while all those other little perks are grand, we both know that humans have in them the 'me-me' aspect, just depends on it that aspect wins out or not. I'm of the opinion that Denver needs to have a core intact, key individuals at certain positions that are mainstays no matter the transitional state of a team and that is the key to maintaining dominance and competing year in and year out, if I was to point to those I feel are worthy of that, then Knighton would be on the short end of the stick. But looking at the whole of it, Denver is already faced with having those keys stripped from the team. At this point we're all pretty much in the dark about Miller, after his rookie season I felt he was without question one of them, but now I am not so sure. We need a mainstay on the offensive line, I believed it would be Clady but could end up being Vasquez, Demaryius Thomas and Julius Thomas are such figures for the offense, whereas I believe Manning is expendable - not that I don't like Manning, but after the upcoming season I believe it will be Osweiler's turn under center. I'm hoping that Ball becomes such a figure in the backfield, but we all know how that works. Defensively, I believe we are yet to attain the key figure on the line, Trevathan is heading that way and I was hoping Miller would be there too, but as I've said it's up in the air right now. DRC pretty much played himself into that role in the defensive backfield and really, other then him who is worth so much? It's the lack thereof on the defensive side and the fact that the offense has two entering the final season of their contract. If we had long-term deals with J. Thomas, D. Rodgers-Cromartie, D. Thomas and V. Miller then I'd be far less concerned about the turnaround, it's part of the business.

I just hope you're right about the rest. :beer:

Tned
02-11-2014, 07:53 PM
Everything was structured around Manning having a 3-year window to win the SB.

I am actually perfectly fine and dandy with what this team faces. Guys are going to take our money if we give it to them. It's not like we're the Browns and need to keep guys from testing the market because they'd never re-sign here.

This is infinitely preferable to panicking and locking up everybody and then sorting out dead money cap issues down the road.

Exactly. Elway turned around a club in a tailspin and got us in the SB in three years, one of which was wasted on Orton/Tebow.

It's like Cane doesn't even acknowledge how low the Broncos had fallen (even if divine intervention kept us from getting Andrew Luck).

It's ridiculous to assume that Elway will screw the pooch, when to date most of his moves have turned out Rosie and he got the Broncos to the SB three short years after the worst period in Broncos history (certainly the Bowlen era).

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-11-2014, 08:06 PM
Exactly. Elway turned around a club in a tailspin and got us in the SB in three years, one of which was wasted on Orton/Tebow.

It's like Cane doesn't even acknowledge how low the Broncos had fallen (even if divine intervention kept us from getting Andrew Luck).

It's ridiculous to assume that Elway will screw the pooch, when to date most of his moves have turned out Rosie and he got the Broncos to the SB three short years after the worst period in Broncos history (certainly the Bowlen era).

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

I agree, but at times it has seemed as though the finances have gotten pretty conservative since Joe Ellis took over, and I don't know how much power Elway has there.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-11-2014, 08:10 PM
Terrance Knighton ‏@MrKnighton2u 7h

I don't know why people are mad at me. All I do is play football. The business part is controlled by my agent.

He is pretty much getting drilled on twitter
https://twitter.com/MrKnighton2u

OrangeHoof
02-11-2014, 08:27 PM
If Vickerson comes back healthy and Sylvester Williams plays like the first round pick he was, we can afford to let Knighton walk. Let's see how he does in 2014 before discussing extensions and raises. It might turn out he's not truly necessary.

Tned
02-11-2014, 08:40 PM
I agree, but at times it has seemed as though the finances have gotten pretty conservative since Joe Ellis took over, and I don't know how much power Elway has there.

Broncos spent something like $10 million over the salary cap and were the sixth biggest cash spenders in '13

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

Denver Native (Carol)
02-11-2014, 09:26 PM
If this is accurate, here are the Broncos' players salaries

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/

Tned
02-11-2014, 10:07 PM
If this is accurate, here are the Broncos' players salaries

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/

If you click on a players name and look at their details, it can be "misleading" how Spotrac lists what it calls dead money (which is a bit different than how it's traditionally viewed), but other than that, I believe their data is accurate based on how I've compared it to other sources.

As contract details are never officially released, it's hard to know. For instance, Spotrac has Manning's contract showing a "salary advance" of $10 million, that functions as a $10 mil signing bonus in terms of spreading the cap impact over the last four years of his contract, and I've seen nobody else report that. So, that means that Spotrac may have more details than most sites, or that they have guessed at contract details.

BroncoWave
02-11-2014, 10:14 PM
He is pretty much getting drilled on twitter
https://twitter.com/MrKnighton2u

People who go on twitter and tweet at athletes bashing or threatening them are basically as big of losers as you could possibly be.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-11-2014, 11:28 PM
Broncos spent something like $10 million over the salary cap and were the sixth biggest cash spenders in '13

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

Then how is it we have 6.5 orso of surprlus? Why are we not punished for going over the cap?

jhildebrand
02-12-2014, 01:16 AM
That's strange, he was inked and labeled the starter next to Vickerson from day one and that never changed as far as I knew. Funny how Knighton who was praised by Elway since signing him was on the verge of being cut, never having to earn his way in the starting lineup, he was just kept there despite all that. So confusing to me...

If you attended camp you could see and hear the coaches on the field with Knighton. It was clear they weren't too keen on him. If you read or looked at any of the reports, many were talking about him being guaranteed so many million only to be cut. It was there! DMac and Al were going over it again the other day and before them the guys on the Locker Room on ESPN had done the same.

jhildebrand
02-12-2014, 01:18 AM
I'm not arguing the truthfulness of his statement, just laughing and mocking the contradictory that I've heard from the front office or coaching staff or other sources that is all.

A guy cannot progress and change people's minds throughout the season? :confused:

jhildebrand
02-12-2014, 01:25 AM
The Pats also knew how to draft and maintain above average and elite talent, especially defensively which is ironic because now they can not maintain a cold. They maintained a core and moved players around that core to continually win. And who gives a damn about the Pats or Steelers even? Both have become so depleted that they are starting to struggle to keep atop even their divisions.

The Pats drafts have been hardly stellar by any means on D. They cannot draft a DB to save them hence Samuel, Talib and a host of other DBs having been brought in. Other than the most recent drafts, they look pretty spotty to me. Without actually getting into it, it looks as though their drafting isn't much better than Denvers. Why do I "give a damn" about how NE or Pitt? Because when you are as dominant as they have been they have to be doing something right. One thing they don't do is over pay on their own guys or the one's they bring in! I'll take 10 years like they have had.

Tned
02-12-2014, 08:52 AM
Then how is it we have 6.5 orso of surprlus? Why are we not punished for going over the cap?

The new CBA let's you roll unused cap money over from one year to the next. So, I believe, but am not 100% sure, that they rolled enough money over from the previous year to be well above the league wide salary cap. This year, they have something like $6 million that they are rolling over from last year.

Also, when it comes to the total cash spend, of which they were fifth or sixth highest in the league, some of that cash will be signing bonuses and spread out over future cap years.

TXBRONC
02-12-2014, 09:15 AM
That's where I get nervous paying him the money. Is he solely motivated by money? If so, once he gets it, does his play deteriorate? I've listened to interviews with him and his words say otherwise, but his actions in the past say it's a possibility. Just makes me nervous.

I don't see Knighton as another Albert Haynesworth who was a lazy slob but given how many guys that are going be free agents this year Elway and his staff already have full plate. They don't giving a new deal to guy who is already under contract. Personally I believe it will work itself in due time.

TXBRONC
02-12-2014, 09:21 AM
If Vickerson comes back healthy and Sylvester Williams plays like the first round pick he was, we can afford to let Knighton walk. Let's see how he does in 2014 before discussing extensions and raises. It might turn out he's not truly necessary.

Knighton is head and shoulder above Vickerson in overall ability and as someone pointed out a while back Vickerson is coming off of a hip injury and for guy who weighs as much as he does it might be dicey as well he comes back from it.

GEM
02-12-2014, 10:07 AM
If this is accurate, here are the Broncos' players salaries

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/

Quentin Jammer $1.5 mil, Chris Harris under $500K....whatchoooooo talkin bout Willis?

GEM
02-12-2014, 10:09 AM
People who go on twitter and tweet at athletes bashing or threatening them are basically as big of losers as you could possibly be.

And a good way to piss the player off. I don't want him to go and under normal circumstances, I'd be ok with giving him more money. Right now, in our situations with 21 other guys actually in a contract year, it's hard to say, "Yea, you're worth it, here's some more money" and then say to a guy like Knowshon, "Sorry, we just don't have the cash." When they've both had 1 good year in our system.

Runamok
02-12-2014, 10:28 AM
He's probably right.

I can see a guy wanting to get paid, but re-writing a contract is playing foul.

You signed it, man, and it looked fine then, so live with it.


Ok, having said that, you don't want to lose this guy, no way.

GEM
02-12-2014, 10:29 AM
I can see a guy wanting to get paid, but re-writing a contract is playing foul.

You signed it, man, and it looked fine then, so live with it.


Ok, having said that, you don't want to lose this guy, no way.

You don't or we don't? I guess a Pats fan wouldn't really care...

Runamok
02-12-2014, 10:36 AM
I don't think he's looking for any sympathy. I think he just wants his salary to reflect his level of play with the Broncos, which I think it fair. Teams cut players when they fail to produce, so it's only fair that players ask for a little more financial security when their play warrants it.

I'm also not asking Denver to break the bank on him, but he is 27 years old and is a very solid defensive tackle. If we don't give him an extension now, I feel like he will probably look to go elsewhere after this season. I'd personally prefer to lock him up now. As Broncos fans very well know, a good DT is a hard commodity to come across.

The solution to everyone's problems is to tie pay to performance in any given year. The union wouldn't go for that approach, I wager, but it would put an end to Hainsworths and Krafts of the world. What could be fairer.

Runamok
02-12-2014, 10:41 AM
You don't or we don't? I guess a Pats fan wouldn't really care...

Who's "we"? I meant "you" in the overall sense. "You", havin a player like that, you don't want to lose him. Anyone in that situation = "you".

chazoe60
02-12-2014, 11:29 AM
I can see a guy wanting to get paid, but re-writing a contract is playing foul.

You signed it, man, and it looked fine then, so live with it.


Ok, having said that, you don't want to lose this guy, no way.

I would agree with you if contracts were guaranteed. As long as NFL teams can dump guys mid contract and not have to pay the remainder of said contract then I will never begrudge a guy doing whatever he feels necessary financially.

Runamok
02-12-2014, 11:38 AM
I would agree with you if contracts were guaranteed. As long as NFL teams can dump guys mid contract and not have to pay the remainder of said contract then I will never begrudge a guy doing whatever he feels necessary financially.

yeah, there's no easy answer.

BroncoJoe
02-12-2014, 11:41 AM
Most pre-Superbowl reports mentioned PotRoast, and most of them raved about him. He had a good year, don't get me wrong, but he's also trying to capitalize on his popularity. Can't really blame him, but he's picking the wrong year from a Broncos standpoint.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-12-2014, 12:16 PM
I would agree with you if contracts were guaranteed. As long as NFL teams can dump guys mid contract and not have to pay the remainder of said contract then I will never begrudge a guy doing whatever he feels necessary financially.

It's also human nature. How many of us would feel it was unfair to the company if we had outperformed our current contract and wanted to ask to be paid our fair market value? Most of us would feel well within our rights to ask for a raise.

Knighton has been unfairly ripped by the fan base over this. No where has he said he would hold out. His agent was just doing his job by saying his client had outperformed his contract. The end result is the city of Denver starts to riot. :laugh:

CoachChaz
02-12-2014, 12:22 PM
And a good way to piss the player off. I don't want him to go and under normal circumstances, I'd be ok with giving him more money. Right now, in our situations with 21 other guys actually in a contract year, it's hard to say, "Yea, you're worth it, here's some more money" and then say to a guy like Knowshon, "Sorry, we just don't have the cash." When they've both had 1 good year in our system.

I think the difference there is the amount. Yes, Knighton and Knowshon outperformed their contract, but the reply to Moreno gets easier when you consider terms. "Yes, you also earned more money, Knowshon...but under the circumstances, it's easier to give Knighton 4 mil than to give you 7 mil"


Just using 4 and 7 mil as an example...not specifics.

Buff
02-12-2014, 12:24 PM
It's also human nature. How many of us would feel it was unfair to the company if we had outperformed our current contract and wanted to ask to be paid our fair market value? Most of us would feel well within our rights to ask for a raise.

Knighton has been unfairly ripped by the fan base over this. No where has he said he would hold out. His agent was just doing his job by saying his client had outperformed his contract. The end result is the city of Denver starts to riot. :laugh:

It's all part of the game though. Players are free to advocate on behalf of themselves - and fans are certainly entitled to rip them for taking a selfish approach at the expense of the team. Everyone is self interested. It's silly to think that fans should respect the players' self interest but deny their own.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-12-2014, 12:29 PM
It's all part of the game though. Players are free to advocate on behalf of themselves - and fans are certainly entitled to rip them for taking a selfish approach at the expense of the team. Everyone is self interested. It's silly to think that fans should respect the players' self interest but deny their own.

I suppose that's true, but I won't fail to point out the hypocrisy of it. :D

TXBRONC
02-12-2014, 12:58 PM
I suppose that's true, but I won't fail to point out the hypocrisy of it. :D

Why is it that's only players should live up to their contracts yet the organization doesn't have too?

BroncoNut
02-12-2014, 01:00 PM
Why is it that's only players should live up to their contracts yet the organization doesn't have too?

working for the man.

Tned
02-12-2014, 01:15 PM
Most pre-Superbowl reports mentioned PotRoast, and most of them raved about him. He had a good year, don't get me wrong, but he's also trying to capitalize on his popularity. Can't really blame him, but he's picking the wrong year from a Broncos standpoint.

Exactly, after losing his starting job in Jax, and getting off to a slow start in Denver, he got better and better as the year went on, and really picked up the slack when Vick went down. Then, made a highlight reel play on the AFCCG and the crowd went wild over his Pot Roast nickname (glad it wasn't something like blue balls). The reality is that he should be thanking the Broncos for giving him a shot at resurrecting his career. Go out there and repeat the same performance two years in a row, and then sign on the dotted line for a big pay day.

Lancane
02-12-2014, 02:02 PM
Exactly, after losing his starting job in Jax, and getting off to a slow start in Denver, he got better and better as the year went on, and really picked up the slack when Vick went down. Then, made a highlight reel play on the AFCCG and the crowd went wild over his Pot Roast nickname (glad it wasn't something like blue balls). The reality is that he should be thanking the Broncos for giving him a shot at resurrecting his career. Go out there and repeat the same performance two years in a row, and then sign on the dotted line for a big pay day.

However, if the Broncos signed him to an extension with performance based incentives (not overspend) then they will not have to overpay in an off-season where they'll have far bigger concerns then an above average defensive tackle, like finding a way to keep their Pro-Bowl number one receiver, Pro-Bowl tight end and All-Pro pass rusher. I know that might not make a difference is some fans' opinions, but the difference could be in what is guaranteed to the player as well. Would much rather see the Broncos extend him for an additional three years at 10 mil with less guaranteed, then sign him to a two year 12 million dollar deal a year later that is fully guaranteed. Just my opinion of course.

Buff
02-12-2014, 02:46 PM
However, if the Broncos signed him to an extension with performance based incentives (not overspend) then they will not have to overpay in an off-season where they'll have far bigger concerns then an above average defensive tackle, like finding a way to keep their Pro-Bowl number one receiver, Pro-Bowl tight end and All-Pro pass rusher. I know that might not make a difference is some fans' opinions, but the difference could be in what is guaranteed to the player as well. Would much rather see the Broncos extend him for an additional three years at 10 mil with less guaranteed, then sign him to a two year 12 million dollar deal a year later that is fully guaranteed. Just my opinion of course.

As a general rule - it's bad business to extend a player when his stock is at an all-time high because he is negotiating with maximum leverage. I'd feel much better about paying him $12 over 2 next year when he's proven that he wasn't a one-year wonder. He would still have his leverage - but we'd have piece of mind that we wouldn't have if we extended him this off season.

CoachChaz
02-12-2014, 03:22 PM
Unless your name is Suh, McCoy, Dareus or Atkins...I'm not so sure I'm handing out an extension at all.

Lancane
02-12-2014, 04:08 PM
Unless your name is Suh, McCoy, Dareus or Atkins...I'm not so sure I'm handing out an extension at all.

And what is the chances of drafting a defensive tackle of that caliber? I understand well and good the trepidation that some would have, but there can be repercussions in not trying to maintain a semblance of a core group, even if some are less then stellar as far as overall talent or ability goes. And we both know that drafting elite talent is harder then many fans have come to believe, hell...it's been that way for a long time, some even seem to believe that everyone is replaceable. And when you look at the Broncos and divvy the time it has taken to even get to this point and time regarding level of talent, it's actually humbling because it has been so long. Honestly, we would not be having this conversation if it was about extending J. Thomas, V. Miller or D. Thomas and you know I am right, almost everyone then would be all for it, even though it makes some arguments a bit hypocritical when they go on and on about honoring contracts. Knighton isn't an elite talent, in no way am I labeling him as such, because it's untrue. I just believe that Denver will find it difficult to actually re-sign him reasonably, especially if he has a another good season when faced with having to possibly re-sign three or four elite players that are the core of this team. Then the Broncos will be again back to the board trying to replace even his production, it's been years since we've had an interior this good and next year all but Sly Williams will be free agents.

Tned
02-12-2014, 04:14 PM
However, if the Broncos signed him to an extension with performance based incentives (not overspend) then they will not have to overpay in an off-season where they'll have far bigger concerns then an above average defensive tackle, like finding a way to keep their Pro-Bowl number one receiver, Pro-Bowl tight end and All-Pro pass rusher. I know that might not make a difference is some fans' opinions, but the difference could be in what is guaranteed to the player as well. Would much rather see the Broncos extend him for an additional three years at 10 mil with less guaranteed, then sign him to a two year 12 million dollar deal a year later that is fully guaranteed. Just my opinion of course.

First and foremost, players focus on the guaranteed these days. So, it is likely that your guaranteed is going to be real close whether it's a two year deal or three. If you extend him now, three years, 10 mil, $15 guaranteed or something like that, after only one good season, you arguably have a much higher risk than letting him play out his contract and then either resign him, let him walk or franchise him for $8.5 million or so.

CoachChaz
02-12-2014, 04:21 PM
And what is the chances of drafting a defensive tackle of that caliber? I understand well and good the trepidation that some would have, but there can be repercussions in not trying to maintain a semblance of a core group, even if some are less then stellar as far as overall talent or ability goes. And we both know that drafting elite talent is harder then many fans have come to believe, hell...it's been that way for a long time, some even seem to believe that everyone is replaceable. And when you look at the Broncos and divvy the time it has taken to even get to this point and time regarding level of talent, it's actually humbling because it has been so long. Honestly, we would not be having this conversation if it was about extending J. Thomas, V. Miller or D. Thomas and you know I am right, almost everyone then would be all for it, even though it makes some arguments a bit hypocritical when they go on and on about honoring contracts. Knighton isn't an elite talent, in no way am I labeling him as such, because it's untrue. I just believe that Denver will find it difficult to actually re-sign him reasonably, especially if he has a another good season when faced with having to possibly re-sign three or four elite players that are the core of this team. Then the Broncos will be again back to the board trying to replace even his production, it's been years since we've had an interior this good and next year all but Sly Williams will be free agents.

So what are we paying for? A player worth an amount of money because he is worth it...or a player that is good at a position that we have been weak at for awhile? I dont mind paying top dollar for top talent, but I do mind paying top dollar for nostalgia. There are always quality DT's available via FA and through the draft that could come in and be just as good. But because our front office CHOOSES to ignore it, we should pay more for it when it's actually here? I guess I just dont buy into that philosophy.

Northman
02-12-2014, 04:26 PM
I think we should just cut everyone. **** em.

CoachChaz
02-12-2014, 04:38 PM
I think we should just cut everyone. **** em.

I dont think it goes that far, but if we want to be in a situation where we have 21 free agents and want to have a glimmer of hope of signing the better ones...we have to make sure we are handing out smart contracts

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-12-2014, 05:34 PM
It's been a long time since I kicked me a puppy.

Lancane
02-12-2014, 06:20 PM
So what are we paying for? A player worth an amount of money because he is worth it...or a player that is good at a position that we have been weak at for awhile? I dont mind paying top dollar for top talent, but I do mind paying top dollar for nostalgia. There are always quality DT's available via FA and through the draft that could come in and be just as good. But because our front office CHOOSES to ignore it, we should pay more for it when it's actually here? I guess I just dont buy into that philosophy.

If you compare his career, it's easily arguable that while not elite that Knighton is consistent despite character concerns and in that likewise comparable with most starting defensive tackles in the NFL, not the elite but he's above average statistically. You say that there are always defensive tackles of equal quality available through the draft and free agency? So then let me ask you, why hasn't Denver had that in almost twenty-five years? Or how about other teams that have struggled in that aspect, and according to you there are a number to be had each year. Of course, I remember Albert Haynesworth as well, he was so elite that he got the biggest contract in history at his respective position, what happened then? Sometimes you have to lower your standards to keep a team competitive, and believing that elite or near enough talent is available on a whim is shortsightedness at best.

What your paying for isn't nostalgia or even greatness, it's the ability to field a team that can compete as best possible when elite talent eats up your budget. Demaryius Thomas is likely to receive a contract worth 7 to 14 million a year based on current salary projections, Julius Thomas will likely receive a contract that ranges from between 5 to 7 million a year and Von Miller if he bounces back will likely be looking at 5 million up to 8 million a season, if not more. As I said I am going off current projections and that on the low end is 17 million for three elite talents, now on the high end that is 29 million, about 10 million more then Manning will be due next season. Calculating depth and other players due bigger contracts or have them such as Clady, Vasquez, Manning and likely Rodgers-Cromartie, not to mention Champ Bailey, I want to know where the hell people believe that Denver will be able to dish out enough to maintain the core? Trim 8 million from Bailey or close thereto, but that likely covers DRC's contract only. If Knighton has a similar year, instead of extending him they'll be looking at closer to 4.5 plus million a year, especially considering he'll want a fat signing bonus, or Denver could let him walk and hope that the past doesn't foreshadow the state of the position in the future. After all, it shouldn't be all that hard to replace Knighton, Vickerson and the depth behind them in the same off-season, especially when they are probably wanting to lock down the franchise stars...

And it's not so much a philosophy, I just don't believe you simply spend all your grocery money at one time, cause you never know what the F' might happen, and you might need groceries later in the month, spend your entire grocery budget on lobster tails, steak, crab, prime rib, etc. when you need basic necessities later on, your then left holding your 'Johnson' in your hand.

capt. Jack
02-13-2014, 01:21 PM
I've said and have been laughed at that Manning needs to restructure...if he isn't willing, then it is perhaps time to reconsider if we are playing for right now and screw the future. We lose a lot of the core and then Manning leaves and where are we left? Ugh...

We got one possibility two shots at the thing moving forward, after that is when its going to get ugly.