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CrazyHorse
02-04-2014, 07:02 PM
Is it just me or does this seem to be the mantra in the playoffs. You don't want games decided by the refs so they shy away from calling anything unless it's blatantly obvious. Playoff games tend to have fewer penalties called than regular season games. I know Seattle lead the NFL for PI and defensive holding. I've heard the reason being refs aren't likely to throw flags on consecutive plays. In that case it's worth the risk to them. I plan on re-watching the game when possible to look for this. It's hardly the reason we lost but is a bit troubling. I know the 49ers have been vocal about this. Also does it seem to be called with consistently? Do teams like Seattle tend to get away with more because that's their identity? Would Sherman have been called if he made the play Carter did? What about Kam Chancellor running into Julius? Those are the only examples I can think of but I'll look for more.

silkamilkamonico
02-04-2014, 07:14 PM
Have to adjust to the refs regardless of how they are calling it. I like that they let them play.

Dapper Dan
02-04-2014, 07:41 PM
I agree. I think the refs do a good job of letting them play in the playoffs. I wish they did that during the regular season more.

CrazyHorse
02-04-2014, 07:52 PM
Why should it be called any differently in the playoffs versus the regular season?

Tned
02-04-2014, 07:53 PM
No excuse for not throwing a flag on the PI on DT's TD.
Among other things, they need to lose the all star crews.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

Joel
02-04-2014, 08:07 PM
The story of Super Bowl XLVIII was Seattles powerful front four clubbing our QB and RBs to death with our own limp scared linemen—without even blitzing much!

If people want us to get to a Lombardi by getting tougher and meaner, that's where we should start. Our defensive linemen (the starters, half of whom were out with injury) are huge, powerful and dominant players. Porkchop became a sensation for plowing through blockers, but only AFTER Vickersons injury meant he was no longer doing the same. Both are >330 lbs, most of it muscle. Malik Jackson and Derek Wolfe are strong AND quick, and, at 290 and 284 lbs, could play DE in most 3-4s, let alone a 4-3.

Our offensive linemen are... not that. It's great Beadles, Ramirez and Franklin pull and leadblock 20 yds downfield on screens, flattening guys 100 lbs. lighter. It sure would be nice if they could do that AT THE LINE vs. guys their OWN size or bigger. Sure would've been nice if they had in the SB, instead of being outmuscled AND outrun all night. That might've been a good game to watch.

Instead we got utterly humiliated in a global broadcast. :tsk:

slim
02-04-2014, 08:23 PM
Why should it be called any differently in the playoffs versus the regular season?

It shouldn't.

Phil Simms talked about this quite a bit in the AFCCG (and defended it), but it's total BS. The rules are the rules and they should be enforced consistently throughout the year and in the playoffs.

DenBronx
02-04-2014, 08:31 PM
I like that they let them play. I also didnt like that we never got a PI called in our favor when clearly there were several no calls.


Can't have it both ways. When we don't get those kinds of calls then I fully expect our WRs to get more physical. We have huge WRs and TEs but they don't get mad and aggressive. Steve Smith wouldnt have took that. I keep saying it and I'll say it again. This needs to be taught in practice. If our WRs go up against physical DBs and LBs in practice then that will transition onto the field. Our defense is soft....which makes or WRs look too finesse at times. I am ok with finesse when we are running up the score but sometimes you have to get in a dog fight.

DenBronx
02-04-2014, 08:34 PM
The story of Super Bowl XLVIII was Seattles powerful front four clubbing our QB and RBs to death with our own limp scared linemen—without even blitzing much!

If people want us to get to a Lombardi by getting tougher and meaner, that's where we should start. Our defensive linemen (the starters, half of whom were out with injury) are huge, powerful and dominant players. Porkchop became a sensation for plowing through blockers, but only AFTER Vickersons injury meant he was no longer doing the same. Both are >330 lbs, most of it muscle. Malik Jackson and Derek Wolfe are strong AND quick, and, at 290 and 284 lbs, could play DE in most 3-4s, let alone a 4-3.

Our offensive linemen are... not that. It's great Beadles, Ramirez and Franklin pull and leadblock 20 yds downfield on screens, flattening guys 100 lbs. lighter. It sure would be nice if they could do that AT THE LINE vs. guys their OWN size or bigger. Sure would've been nice if they had in the SB, instead of being outmuscled AND outrun all night. That might've been a good game to watch.

Instead we got utterly humiliated in a global broadcast. :tsk:

That really sums it up. It allowed their secondary to go hog wild. Didn't help that they knew the plays, routes and hand signals either. I expected the Broncos to change all of that before the SB. They had TWO full weeks to figure all of that out and they did.

DenBronx
02-04-2014, 08:36 PM
Why should it be called any differently in the playoffs versus the regular season?


I think the refs just don't want to blow a big game either way by one simple call. They let the plays go longer and wernt so quick to just throw a flag. I can respect that.

echobravo
02-06-2014, 04:48 PM
Letting them play. . . more like letting them cheat. I would love to see just one NFL game that is called clean in my lifetime. Might as well be watching the NBA when it comes to officiating. The rules are the rules, and penalties should be called. Would also like to see rules enforced equally. Remember the Giants game where at one point we had like nine penalties and the Giants had none? That kind of crap should not happen. The refs always have the final say in who wins the game. Goodell made damn sure that the regular refs would win their strike by hiring the sorriest lot of referees ever assembled so that the union guys would look like geniuses by comparison. Now the refs can get away with anything because if anyone complains all they have to do is say "fail mary."

Joel
02-06-2014, 07:09 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Goodell didn't intentionally do ANYTHING to help the refs union (just the opposite is far more likely.) That's like saying Ford deliberately made bad cars to help a UAW strike.

spikerman
02-06-2014, 07:20 PM
Letting them play. . . more like letting them cheat. I would love to see just one NFL game that is called clean in my lifetime. Might as well be watching the NBA when it comes to officiating. The rules are the rules, and penalties should be called. Would also like to see rules enforced equally. Remember the Giants game where at one point we had like nine penalties and the Giants had none? That kind of crap should not happen. The refs always have the final say in who wins the game. Goodell made damn sure that the regular refs would win their strike by hiring the sorriest lot of referees ever assembled so that the union guys would look like geniuses by comparison. Now the refs can get away with anything because if anyone complains all they have to do is say "fail mary."

sigh :rolleyes:

Joel
02-06-2014, 09:00 PM
sigh :rolleyes:
Hey, man, if one team has double digit penalties and the other has none, YOU ZEBRAS are clearly doing things wrong. :tongue:

spikerman
02-06-2014, 09:04 PM
Hey, man, if one team has double digit penalties and the other has none, YOU ZEBRAS are clearly doing things wrong. :tongue:

Or... and I'm just throwing this out there... maybe one of the teams is doing something wrong. Contrary to popular belief, it's not up to us to even out the penalties.

OB
02-06-2014, 09:16 PM
Or... and I'm just throwing this out there... maybe one of the teams is doing something wrong. Contrary to popular belief, it's not up to us to even out the penalties.

Really? Are you saying -and I'm asking - there couldn't reasonably be a penalty called on every play?

spikerman
02-06-2014, 09:18 PM
Really? Are you saying -and I'm asking - there couldn't reasonably be a penalty called on every play?

That is correct.

Joel
02-06-2014, 09:21 PM
Or... and I'm just throwing this out there... maybe one of the teams is doing something wrong. Contrary to popular belief, it's not up to us to even out the penalties.
That's just shameless propaganda. WWEHD? :tongue:


That is correct.
I thought it an axiom that SOMEBODY holds on EVERY play, and it's just a question of whether the refs see it and it's bad enough to stop the play. Seems like a lot of holds get called away from the play, too, and I thought that wasn't supposed to be a penalty. Not that I really buy that "the refs favorite team is whoever's playing us" argument; I kinda pity you guys (MOST of the time.)

OB
02-06-2014, 09:24 PM
Going with the point of this thread - did anyone see the video of the breakdown of penalties that hurt sf in the NFCCG? Granted the video should go both ways and not just show SF getting screwed - if u broke down every critical penalty on both sides thir point would be more legitimate. BUT some of those plays were sooooooo blatantly wrong it makes u to hmmmmm :shot: and by no means do I feel the refs screwed us in the SB - I do not!!! We were too busy ******* ourselves that the refs never had to break open their jar of KY. But had we had SF in the SB it would've been a whole different game :duh:

OB
02-06-2014, 09:25 PM
That is correct.


I'm throwing the flag and calling BS. Just like in BB where there is almost always a foul - in FB there is almost always holding. Just cause someone doesn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

spikerman
02-06-2014, 09:30 PM
That's just shameless propaganda. WWEHD? :tongue:


I thought it an axiom that SOMEBODY holds on EVERY play, and it's just a question of whether the refs see it and it's bad enough to stop the play. Seems like a lot of holds get called away from the play, too, and I thought that wasn't supposed to be a penalty. Not that I really buy that "the refs favorite team is whoever's playing us" argument; I kinda pity you guys (MOST of the time.)
It's rare that a penalty for holding away from the play is called. Usually you'll see that called if the hold is against an eligible receiver. The reason for that is because the hold may have had a direct effect on the play. For instance, who is to say that the receiver who was held couldn't get to a specific spot to receive the pass because of the hold? If it's a running play, etc. the officiating philosophy is that there has to be a material restraint and it has to be at the point of attack. When calling holding we're always looking for two verbs (grab and restrict, hook and turn, etc.) with one exception and that's a takedown. Coaches always yell about their player being grabbed and I'll say to them, "Ok, and what else?"

spikerman
02-06-2014, 09:31 PM
I'm throwing the flag and calling BS. Just like in BB where there is almost always a foul - in FB there is almost always holding. Just cause someone doesn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I used to think the same thing until I started officiating.

OB
02-06-2014, 09:42 PM
I used to think the same thing until I started officiating.

Have you seen the video going around about the calls in the NFCCG? Granted I'm not so dumb that I don't see the video is very one sided by not showing any of the penalties called against SF but you have to admit some of those calls - ESP the reviewed ones make a fan go hmmmmmm

spikerman
02-06-2014, 09:45 PM
Have you seen the video going around about the calls in the NFCCG? Granted I'm not so dumb that I don't see the video is very one sided by not showing any of the penalties called against SF but you have to admit some of those calls - ESP the reviewed ones make a fan go hmmmmmm

I have to admit that I haven't seen any footage from that game. I was traveling when it was on and I haven't seen any of it.

OB
02-06-2014, 10:01 PM
I have to admit that I haven't seen any footage from that game. I was traveling when it was on and I haven't seen any of it.


Check it out. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Like I said its very biased as to SF but it also makes you wonder at the same time.

Joel
02-06-2014, 10:17 PM
I have to admit that I haven't seen any footage from that game. I was traveling when it was on and I haven't seen any of it.
Some of it was pretty awful; easily the worst was when Navarro Bowman forced a ball out on a catch at his goal line, then his teammate drove the WR into him from the other side and tore Bowmans ACL (NASTY looking hit; don't watch that part too closely) yet Bowman STILL caught the ball as he hit the ground, and it clearly never hit the ground—yet the refs ruled the WR caught it and was down by contact. Even Mike Pereira said at the time it was so bad it should spur the move to make non-fumble/score plays reviewable.

Here's the thing though: Of all those "indisputably," "conclusively" BAD calls, I doubt ANY changed the game a whit. On the one just described, it was still 4th and G, Seattle went for it, and fumbled the snap 15 yds back, where SF took over and threw a pick two plays later. All the bad call "against" SF did was GIVE them 15 yds of field position, and probably prevent a Seattle FG (though they did throw a 50 yd TD on 4th and long later in the game.)

There was another one, much earlier, that sure looked like a shoulder-to-head hit to me when I saw it live, but the slo mo replay the refs didn't get to check clearly showed it was shoulder-to-shoulder. Awful 15 yd penalty and automatic first; inexcusable, right? Except SF never got another first down, took a holding penalty two plays later (insult to injury, stripes! :tongue:) and wound up punting from pretty much the same place they started.

So, yeah, there were a lot of bad calls (IMO, though hardly JUST mine) and they shouldn't have been made. Did they change anything though? Not really; Kaep lost that game, not the refs.

Simple Jaded
02-06-2014, 10:53 PM
The Tony Carter penalty gives the feeling that if the game were actually a game I would be a lot more pissing off at the officiating than I am.

Buff
02-06-2014, 10:57 PM
The Tony Carter penalty gives the feeling that if the game were actually a game I would be a lot more pissing off at the officiating than I am.

His PI call in the back of the end zone? I thought that he blatantly interfered. He never tried to look for the ball, and he pushed the WR out of the back of the endzone.

Simple Jaded
02-06-2014, 11:02 PM
His PI call in the back of the end zone? I thought that he blatantly interfered. He never tried to look for the ball, and he pushed the WR out of the back of the endzone.

I agree.

Buff
02-06-2014, 11:06 PM
I agree.

I think I'm missing some context here... But I'm too lazy to read back through the thread to find out.

chazoe60
02-06-2014, 11:10 PM
I think Seattle's mantra is "they won't call holding on us every play so we'll just do it every play"

Next year when we play them we just have to get nastier. I'm all for decleating a couple of the ******s with pick plays or whatever means necessary.

Simple Jaded
02-06-2014, 11:36 PM
I think I'm missing some context here... But I'm too lazy to read back through the thread to find out.

Had the game been closer I have a feeling that the Broncos would've seen a lot more of those penalties, which is fine if Seattle did too (which I doubt).

Joel
02-07-2014, 12:01 AM
I think Seattle's mantra is "they won't call holding on us every play so we'll just do it every play"

Next year when we play them we just have to get nastier. I'm all for decleating a couple of the ******s with pick plays or whatever means necessary.
Sadly, decleating guys after the QB and ball both hit the ground is a 15 yd late hit. Well, it's not sad that's a penalty, just that our line gave us no time to set picks (which are also fouls, btw.)

CrazyHorse
02-07-2014, 04:33 AM
I think Seattle's mantra is "they won't call holding on us every play so we'll just do it every play"

Next year when we play them we just have to get nastier. I'm all for decleating a couple of the ******s with pick plays or whatever means necessary.

That's a crucial part of it. They basically dare the refs to throw the flag.