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Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2014, 02:47 PM
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. — As the Denver Broncos continue to search for reasons why Super Bowl XLVIII went horribly awry, Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman divulged a trade secret that he says helped his team win the game 43-8.

Sherman told Sports Illustrated the Seahawks were able to decipher some of the complex hand signals Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning was using in the game, and that it helped he and his teammates successfully predict plays before they happened.

“All we did was play situational football,” Sherman told the magazine. “We knew what route concepts they (the Broncos) liked on different downs, so we jumped all the routes. Then we figured out the hand signals for a few of the route audibles in the first half.”

rest - http://kdvr.com/2014/02/04/richard-sherman-seahawks-figured-out-peyton-mannings-hand-signals/

blamkin86
02-04-2014, 03:52 PM
This is just so hard for me to read. Not exactly sportsmanlike. I guess that doesn't matter any more.

Honestly, if it is true, why in God's name would he reveal that? Next year we will light them up with oddball signals.

I think I read that Indy did that during the season too. Takes the shine off the NFL if you ask me.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-04-2014, 03:53 PM
This is just so hard for me to read. Not exactly sportsmanlike. I guess that doesn't matter any more.

Honestly, if it is true, why in God's name would he reveal that? Next year we will light them up with oddball signals.

I think I read that Indy did that during the season too. Takes the shine off the NFL if you ask me.

I don't think so....and I think it's good to know because it tells us we need to make better adjustments next year. At the end of the day I still think we could have made plays if Manning wasn't under durress for at least half of his passes.

Poet
02-04-2014, 03:55 PM
Manning does the same things to defenses. This is just paying attention to film and watching tape. I never thought I'd see a Peyton Manning offense get outsmarted. Wow.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2014, 04:03 PM
I was glad to read this. Now I understand why the Broncos looked so bad on offense. Makes me feel much better. Hard to execute on offense if the other team knows what you will be doing on each play.

artie_dale
02-04-2014, 04:04 PM
This is what I found and it makes much more sense than this silly hand-signal bizz.

http://www.denverpost.com/


But really, the game MVP was Dan Quinn. Wait, who? He is Seattle's defensive coordinator, who not only developed a historic defense with many overlooked low draft picks but also admitted he found a flaw in Denver's offense, a mole on Mona Lisa. After the game, Quinn and some Seahawks told The Newark Star-Ledger that quarterback Peyton Manning often reveals where he'll throw the ball with his eyes. As explained by the vicious Kam Chancellor, Seattle's fifth-round safety: "It just allowed us to see the routes develop. We were able to jump a few routes. Just see everything that develops in front of you, playing off Peyton's eyes. He takes you right to the ball every time. He's a great quarterback, but he definitely has tendencies and he takes you to the ball.

Peyton DOES change up his signal words and his hand signals all the time. This "reading his eyes" thing is new.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2014, 04:08 PM
This is what I found and it makes much more sense than this silly hand-signal bizz.

http://www.denverpost.com/





Peyton DOES change up his signal words and his hand signals all the time. This "reading his eyes" thing is new.

That might be true in regards to passing, but they were stopping anything the Broncos tried on offense, not just passing.

blamkin86
02-04-2014, 04:31 PM
I was glad to read this. Now I understand why the Broncos looked so bad on offense. Makes me feel much better. Hard to execute on offense if the other team knows what you will be doing on each play.

I guess I see your point.

tomjonesrocks
02-04-2014, 04:34 PM
I was glad to read this. Now I understand why the Broncos looked so bad on offense. Makes me feel much better. Hard to execute on offense if the other team knows what you will be doing on each play.

I don't understand why this would help. He also said if Denver had bothered to run some double moves Denver could have exposed Seattle.

It's outright mockery, and makes all the coaches look incompetent.

silkamilkamonico
02-04-2014, 05:00 PM
It's outright mockery, and makes all the coaches look incompetent.

I don't see it as mockery, he was just telling it how it was. The film may validate his comment with that too.

Definitely agree with the incompetent aspect. Just completely outcoached. At least I won't have to hear anymore about Adam Gase being the next best thing in a head coaching gig anytime soon.

LawDog
02-04-2014, 05:06 PM
I call BS on Dick Sherman and his nonsense. Last I checked, Peyton completed a SB record 34 passes. Can't have it both ways mensa.

Joel
02-04-2014, 05:08 PM
I was glad to read this. Now I understand why the Broncos looked so bad on offense. Makes me feel much better. Hard to execute on offense if the other team knows what you will be doing on each play.
Well, that's why we need an effective running game, and, I'm sorry, but the 20th best yds/att is not "effective;" it's almost botton ten, which is pathetic for a record-setting offense.

Yet they didn't stop our offense because they read Mannings hand signals or his eyes (really? Peyton freakin' Manning has tunnel vision and locks in on WRs? We're supposed to believe that?)

They smashed our offense because they smashed our offensive line, so it opened no holes for our RBs and gave them no push, while Manning had to make hot reads all game. It's really easy to read a QBs eyes and jump routes when every throw's rushed because he's trying to avoid getting pulverized, and that'll usually be his situation if the team can't run, so the defense ALWAYS knows what's coming, and can just tee off on the QB. Our league-low 20 sacks say more about Manning than about his linemen.

I'm one of the folks who thinks Manning our OC in all but name; that Fox gets too much flak for offensive playcalls he doesn't make, and Gase—like McCoy before him—has the sweetest job on Earth "running" an offense Manning designed. Every Sunday announcers tell us Gase sends in two plays and Manning picks the one he likes; then we watch him audible to a third or fourth one.

Manning's not ACTUALLY a coach though, and certainly not a GM, which limits how much he can compensate for the failings of those who are. He can't go out and pay $4 million for a 330 lb. guard who runs a 4.6 40, pancakes every DT and pulls out in front of every RB to be 5 yds downfield blocking a LB before the handoff. Manning can't coach tackles to use their hands and stay up in their stance and off their heels so the Robert Mathis' of the world don't strip him. He's one man, and can only do so much.

Seattle "figured out" our offense the same way a freight train "figures out" a school bus, with similar results. Manning needs better offensive linemen like nobodys business; in the SB, Vasquez was the only one who even occasionally looked worth a darn. Clark looked like the backup he was, but the real embarrassment was Beadles pretending a trip is a block, Franklin impersonating a turnstile and Ramirez snapping balls through the end zone. All the hand signals and audibles in the world can't fix that.

BroncoWave
02-04-2014, 05:13 PM
I call BS on Dick Sherman and his nonsense. Last I checked, Peyton completed a SB record 34 passes. Can't have it both ways mensa.

They were letting him complete short passes all day though, because they knew they could stop them for 3-4 yard gains. Yeah he completed a lot of passes, but the defense was giving him the underneath passes then clobbering our WRs.

We probably would have had more success stretching out the field, but our o-line wasn't giving those types of routes enough time to develop. The truth is, there just wasn't much we could have done effectively in that game the way our o-line was playing and the way their defense was playing.

Sucks, but those are the breaks.

LawDog
02-04-2014, 05:23 PM
They were letting him complete short passes all day though, because they knew they could stop them for 3-4 yard gains. Yeah he completed a lot of passes, but the defense was giving him the underneath passes then clobbering our WRs.

We probably would have had more success stretching out the field, but our o-line wasn't giving those types of routes enough time to develop. The truth is, there just wasn't much we could have done effectively in that game the way our o-line was playing and the way their defense was playing.

Sucks, but those are the breaks.

Exactly, I put it on the fact that they were getting pressure early after the snap, not that the secondary figured out hand signals. I will go back and watch the game again in a week or two and look to see what was going on with the intermediate to longer routes, but wounds to fresh for that now.

Joel
02-04-2014, 06:08 PM
Exactly, I put it on the fact that they were getting pressure early after the snap, not that the secondary figured out hand signals. I will go back and watch the game again in a week or two and look to see what was going on with the intermediate to longer routes, but wounds to fresh for that now.
That's exactly what it was, and Sherman making Peyton freakin' Manning sound like some low round rookie who can't go through progressions and tips DBs with his eyes is just more of his trash talk. Manning and Moreno have been making our offensive line look a lot better than they are for two seasons, but they can only compensate for so much. Sunday they were on us at the snap, and it was all over before it began; I'm frankly amazed our D kept us in it as long as they did with half their starters out for the year.

If we want to get more physical and mean so smashmouth teams don't beat us (as I agree we should) we should start with our soft offensive line, not the big, powerful and dominating guys Del Rio brought in for the defensive line. Vickerson and Knighton aren't "soft;" both are >335 lbs. of raw muscle. Same with Wolfe and Jackson at DE, except they're "just" 284 and 290, but play like they're 250. We could use a real Mike, but our softness isn't in the front seven, and that's not who got pushed around Sunday: It was our offensive line, who had all but one starter.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2014, 06:11 PM
from article:


"All we did was play situational football," Sherman told the website in an interview held during one of the Seahawks' postgame victory parties. "We knew what route concepts they liked on different downs, so we jumped all the routes. Then we figured out the hand signals for a few of the route audibles in the first half."

AND


Chancellor and Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn also said they anticipated Denver's plays, telling The Star-Ledger earlier this week that Seattle's players were able to read Manning's eye movement.

"We were able to jump a few routes," Chancellor told the paper. "Just see everything that develops in front of you, playing off of Peyton's eyes. He takes you right to the ball every time.

"He's a great quarterback, but he definitely has tendencies and he takes you to the ball."

full article - http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/10403077/super-bowl-richard-sherman-claims-seattle-seahawks-anticipated-denver-broncos-plays-based-peyton-manning-hands

Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2014, 06:21 PM
The final score of Super Bowl XLVIII was so surprising in part because the Denver Broncos' offense was predictable. Seattle knew what Denver's offense liked to do, and the Broncos didn't deviate much from the script.

"We picked up on a lot of stuff," Seahawks defensive end Michael Bennett said Tuesday on NFL Network's "NFL AM." "When you get two weeks to study, we picked up on a lot of tendencies."

Bennett said the Seahawks were very prepared for what the Broncos were doing, which dovetails with what cornerback Richard Sherman told TheMMQB.com's Robert Klemko after the game.

"We knew what route concepts they liked on different downs, so we jumped all the routes," Sherman said. "Then we figured out the hand signals for a few of the route audibles in the first half. ... Now, if Peyton had thrown in some double moves, if he had gone out of character, we could've been exposed."

rest - plus Bennett on phone
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000323584/article/michael-bennett-we-picked-up-broncos-tendencies

BroncoWave
02-04-2014, 06:26 PM
Exactly, I put it on the fact that they were getting pressure early after the snap, not that the secondary figured out hand signals. I will go back and watch the game again in a week or two and look to see what was going on with the intermediate to longer routes, but wounds to fresh for that now.

You are a stronger man than I. I deleted that shit off of TiVo pretty much the second the game was over. If I never see a highlight of it again it will be too soon.

tomjonesrocks
02-04-2014, 06:33 PM
You are a stronger man than I. I deleted that shit off of TiVo pretty much the second the game was over. If I never see a highlight of it again it will be too soon.

Oh **** yeah. If I hadn't had people over I'd have deleted that shit in the 3rd quarter. It didn't last 5 minutes after they were gone.

I will NEVER watch that thing again.

weazel
02-04-2014, 06:52 PM
all this tells me is the entire offense and coaches were too stupid to pick up on the fact Seattle was reading their plays. This makes it even worse IMO

weazel
02-04-2014, 06:53 PM
You are a stronger man than I. I deleted that shit off of TiVo pretty much the second the game was over. If I never see a highlight of it again it will be too soon.

I gotta be honest, I had about 20 people over and I actually stopped watching the game and a few of my buddies even left at half.

BroncoWave
02-04-2014, 06:55 PM
I gotta be honest, I had about 20 people over and I actually stopped watching the game and a few of my buddies even left at half.

I was at a party at someone else's house and left at the beginning of the 4th, and most people left before that. I watched the end of it when I got home because it's still Broncos football and the last chance I would get to see it until August.

artie_dale
02-04-2014, 06:56 PM
So, am I the only one who took the denverpost article where the D-coordinator said that he would look where he was planning on throwing the ball BEFORE the snap. If the DBs and LBers had a hint on where he was planning on going, not only would the bump on the WRs on the line would make Peyton wait, but if there were defensive players in position where he was planning on throwing the ball, it would force him to wait even longer before he could throw it. But, by then, the DL was getting on him and he had to move.

CrazyHorse
02-04-2014, 07:14 PM
Why he would even open his mouth about this is stupid. It only benefits us to let everyone know that they are reading signals. Now we know maybe we should disguise it better or go away from the no huddle in situations.

tomjonesrocks
02-04-2014, 07:30 PM
Why he would even open his mouth about this is stupid. It only benefits us to let everyone know that they are reading signals. Now we know maybe we should disguise it better or go away from the no huddle in situations.

Because the game is over and he's letting us and the world know what chumps the Broncos are. Manning stayed late to congratulate this guy.

CrazyHorse
02-04-2014, 07:34 PM
Because the game is over and he's letting us and the world know what chumps the Broncos are. Manning stayed late to congratulate this guy.

True, it doesn't matter now. I was talking about when we play them next year for what it's worth.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2014, 07:39 PM
Because the game is over and he's letting us and the world know what chumps the Broncos are. Manning stayed late to congratulate this guy.

Both Sherman and Bennett have said the same thing, and nothing wrong with Peyton being classy after the game.

BronColt
02-04-2014, 08:22 PM
Been a Colts fan only since Peyton was there, and followed him to the Broncos. After the Saints loss to the Super Bowl, they suspected Manning had been caught eyeballing his moves pre-snap, so they started next year with manning in a blacked out visor. Peyton claimed it took away part of his vision away so they stopped using it. They all but admitted that was the reason Tracy Porter took the pick 6 in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. I think the Seahawks went back to that game to see what Greg Williams schemes against the Colts and what Manning was doing. It was the best of the Saints defense for 4 quarters with Seattle. Peyton has been figured out. 4273
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2010/8/3/1602859/peyton-manning-wore-a-dark-visor

Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2014, 09:19 PM
Sherman video, talking with Mike & Mike, in regards to Peyton talking to him after the game

http://www.nfl.com/videos

tomjonesrocks
02-04-2014, 09:33 PM
Sherman video, talking with Mike & Mike, in regards to Peyton talking to him after the game http://www.nfl.com/videos

All Sherman has really done since is talked shit. Kind of doing his best to make a fool of Manning IMO.

tomjonesrocks
02-04-2014, 09:41 PM
Been a Colts fan only since Peyton was there, and followed him to the Broncos. After the Saints loss to the Super Bowl, they suspected Manning had been caught eyeballing his moves pre-snap, so they started next year with manning in a blacked out visor. Peyton claimed it took away part of his vision away so they stopped using it. They all but admitted that was the reason Tracy Porter took the pick 6 in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. I think the Seahawks went back to that game to see what Greg Williams schemes against the Colts and what Manning was doing. It was the best of the Saints defense for 4 quarters with Seattle. Peyton has been figured out. <img src="http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4273"/> http://www.stampedeblue.com/2010/8/3/1602859/peyton-manning-wore-a-dark-visor

And you are here why?

Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2014, 09:53 PM
All Sherman has really done since is talked shit. Kind of doing his best to make a fool of Manning IMO.

Did you listen to what Sherman had to say on the video I posted?

tomjonesrocks
02-04-2014, 10:32 PM
Did you listen to what Sherman had to say on the video I posted?

He praises Manning one moment and then says they had him totally figured out. That if they had bothered to run a double move at some point in the game they could have been burned, but he/our coaches were too inept and pathetic to see it. Manning's eyes give him away. But he's a hall of famer and all class.

I think they're sick of hearing about what a genius Manning is and basically is saying **** all that, we are the geniuses, and Manning is a joke. But that's just my take. I think the praise is just an excuse to hit on his larger objective.

DenBronx
02-04-2014, 10:39 PM
I call BS on Dick Sherman and his nonsense. Last I checked, Peyton completed a SB record 34 passes. Can't have it both ways mensa.


Seattle was willing to give up 3 or 4 yards here and there. They actually baited us into doing that so a record 34 has nothing to do with it. They made us play their game.

DenBronx
02-04-2014, 10:43 PM
Been a Colts fan only since Peyton was there, and followed him to the Broncos. After the Saints loss to the Super Bowl, they suspected Manning had been caught eyeballing his moves pre-snap, so they started next year with manning in a blacked out visor. Peyton claimed it took away part of his vision away so they stopped using it. They all but admitted that was the reason Tracy Porter took the pick 6 in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. I think the Seahawks went back to that game to see what Greg Williams schemes against the Colts and what Manning was doing. It was the best of the Saints defense for 4 quarters with Seattle. Peyton has been figured out. 4273
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2010/8/3/1602859/peyton-manning-wore-a-dark-visor

Cool story bro.


How exactlly did the other 30 teams figure him out?

CrazyHorse
02-04-2014, 11:03 PM
Been a Colts fan only since Peyton was there, and followed him to the Broncos. After the Saints loss to the Super Bowl, they suspected Manning had been caught eyeballing his moves pre-snap, so they started next year with manning in a blacked out visor. Peyton claimed it took away part of his vision away so they stopped using it. They all but admitted that was the reason Tracy Porter took the pick 6 in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. I think the Seahawks went back to that game to see what Greg Williams schemes against the Colts and what Manning was doing. It was the best of the Saints defense for 4 quarters with Seattle. Peyton has been figured out. 4273
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2010/8/3/1602859/peyton-manning-wore-a-dark-visor

Even at this stage in his career it's something that can be fixed, especially with his attention to detail. He could incorporate more receiver look offs and pump fakes. Roethlisberger has made a career with this.

BroncoWave
02-04-2014, 11:05 PM
Cool story bro.


How exactlly did the other 30 teams figure him out?

It's the classic (stupid) "they figured out the blueprint to beating (insert player/team here) argument". It's one of the dumbest argument people make. Everyone knows the blueprint to beating Manning, and has known it for years. The trick is that pretty much no one has the personnel to execute said blueprint. Seattle has the personnel to do it.

DenBronx
02-04-2014, 11:19 PM
It's the classic (stupid) "they figured out the blueprint to beating (insert player/team here) argument". It's one of the dumbest argument people make. Everyone knows the blueprint to beating Manning, and has known it for years. The trick is that pretty much no one has the personnel to execute said blueprint. Seattle has the personnel to do it.


Bingo!


Not everyone has the front 4 that Seattle does. Not every team has the #1 defense....probably one of the best defenses ever in history.


Some of the other teams might have known how to stop Manning but they couldnt.


But Seattle IS beatable. Worse teams had succes against them. Heck Houston went to overtime with them. The Cards and Rams player very low scoring close games with them.



Which confuses the shit out of me. How does the best offense in history only score 8 points? Everything went wrong for us and everything went right for them. I truly believe on any other night we make it a close game either way. I still believe Denver is better than that and sorry but I can't just erase what I saw in the regular season AND post season. It's like we thought winning the AFCCG was the SB and we could finally just take a break. I believe we wanted it as bad but we just sort of gave up during the game.

Hawgdriver
02-04-2014, 11:35 PM
It's the classic (stupid) "they figured out the blueprint to beating (insert player/team here) argument". It's one of the dumbest argument people make. Everyone knows the blueprint to beating Manning, and has known it for years. The trick is that pretty much no one has the personnel to execute said blueprint. Seattle has the personnel to do it.

I think the Seattle coaches also focused on the proper things. They had 2 weeks and they used that precious time the right way.

The outcome of both WWI and WWII was heavily influenced by who had the best intelligence. Cracking codes has always been important. As long as it's not cheating, you have to admire their ability to uncover whatever clues they found.

Lancane
02-04-2014, 11:37 PM
It's the classic (stupid) "they figured out the blueprint to beating (insert player/team here) argument". It's one of the dumbest argument people make. Everyone knows the blueprint to beating Manning, and has known it for years. The trick is that pretty much no one has the personnel to execute said blueprint. Seattle has the personnel to do it.

They did just that, in a prison style fashion akin to 70's prison flicks!

artie_dale
02-05-2014, 11:55 AM
That might be true in regards to passing, but they were stopping anything the Broncos tried on offense, not just passing.

I find it very hard to believe that Seattle's defense figured out any hand-signals in the first quarter. Throughout the entire season, nobody has figured it out because the offense and Peyton are very proactive in changing them up. And, as far as the run game goes, Seattle is MORE than athletic enough to respond to the run game and be effective against it whether they knew hand-signals or not.

BUT, if their defense figured out a flaw in Peyton Manning (him eying the location he plans to go with the ball before the snap), Seattle can easily position it's players forcing Peyton to hold the ball longer and look else where, which disrupts everything else he has to offer. If Seattle solved THAT riddle, it's no wonder nothing the offense did was effective until Peyton, Demaryius, & Welker started actually FIGHTING to move the ball. But, by then, it was way too late and not even that effective anymore.

Seattle didn't have to worry about our run game because by the end of the 2nd quarter, Denver was forced to be one-dimensional.

Ravage!!!
02-05-2014, 12:58 PM
I think the ONLY "thing" they figured out was that Manning and the Broncos were in a hole when only 5 points down. Things were lookign UGLY fast for us, and they knew they could pin their ears back at full speed...giving Manning no time to wait for the deeper routes. DBs can get right on the receiver if they know the WR isn't going to go long. They knew they had our OL beat, and they proved it. Forcing Manning and Co to hit the short passes because that's all the time we had. Hell, Manning was actually ROLLING OUT on pass plays! Since when do we do that???

This "we had him figured out" crap is just BS shit from Sherman. Enjoy your Super Bowl victory, Seattle, you earned it.

LawDog
02-05-2014, 03:34 PM
Seattle was willing to give up 3 or 4 yards here and there. They actually baited us into doing that so a record 34 has nothing to do with it. They made us play their game.

They averaged over 8 yds per reception so not sure your math works out. However, the short passes were primarily due to the pass rush not Dick Sherman reading hand signals. The two picks had absolutely zero to do with knowing what the play/routes were and everything to do with poorly thrown balls, wait for it, due to the rush...

Denver Native (Carol)
02-13-2014, 08:30 PM
Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 1h

RT @JonHeathNFL: Richard Sherman says other NFL players helped Seattle crack Peyton Manning's code: http://sbn.to/1g1mcjg ---- such BS