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View Full Version : Denver Broncos planning to let freedom ring for 16 players



Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2014, 11:02 AM
JERSEY CITY, N.J. — To fans of the popular Eric Decker or 15 other Broncos free agents, nervous times are ahead.

John Elway, the Broncos' executive vice president of football operations, said the team's prospective free agents most likely would be allowed to test the NFL market when the 2014 league season opens March 11.

Pre-emptive deals with star players such as wide receiver Decker, cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and running back Knowshon Moreno are unlikely. This way, the player and the club will have a better understanding of the player's market value.

"Then we'll see if we're in the ballpark," Elway said.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25055334/denver-broncos-planning-let-freedom-ring-16-players

CoachChaz
02-04-2014, 11:09 AM
Makes sense to me

BroncoJoe
02-04-2014, 11:34 AM
Makes sense to me

Elway was not only a great player, but continues to show his outstanding business acumen.

TXBRONC
02-04-2014, 11:42 AM
Makes sense to me

I think the Broncos are far better off having a player like Decker back but I think don't want them to overpay for talent. Maybe Elway already has pretty good idea what these players are going to be worth on the open market.

CoachChaz
02-04-2014, 11:57 AM
I think the Broncos are far better off having a player like Decker back but I think don't want them to overpay for talent. Maybe Elway already has pretty good idea what these players are going to be worth on the open market.

I agree. We'd all like to have Decker back...but his value on the market just doesnt fit with what we can offer.

weazel
02-04-2014, 12:00 PM
meh... Broncos dont need a WR like Decker. They have a burner in DT, they have a slot guy in WW, and they have the new prototype TE in JT. Now they need that physically dominant receiver that likes to dish it out as much as he gets it like Bolden. Decker is a vagina

Lancane
02-04-2014, 12:08 PM
My biggest concern is should Rodgers-Cromartie take another deal, that leaves Denver with a far weaker cornerback group then we've seen in awhile. I understand regarding Decker, Moreno, etc. but as to DRC, that is one where I would be hesitant to say it is a smart move.

silkamilkamonico
02-04-2014, 12:11 PM
meh... Broncos dont need a WR like Decker. They have a burner in DT, they have a slot guy in WW, and they have the new prototype TE in JT. Now they need that physically dominant receiver that likes to dish it out as much as he gets it like Bolden. Decker is a vagina

Agreed. Decker addition makes the unit one of the better ones in the histroy of the NFL. You take him out you still have DT, WW, and JT, and whomever coomplimnets them. If Manning can't be successful with a unit like that then we're asking the wrong questions about the organization.

CoachChaz
02-04-2014, 12:17 PM
My biggest concern is should Rodgers-Cromartie take another deal, that leaves Denver with a far weaker cornerback group then we've seen in awhile. I understand regarding Decker, Moreno, etc. but as to DRC, that is one where I would be hesitant to say it is a smart move.

We still need to see where he fits in the market. I figure it to be somewhere between Verner and Shields...but another team might feel he deserves more. I think 6 mil a year would be my cap...but DRC and other teams may feel otherwise.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-04-2014, 12:21 PM
I think the Broncos are far better off having a player like Decker back but I think don't want them to overpay for talent. Maybe Elway already has pretty good idea what these players are going to be worth on the open market.

It also makes sense to not offend the player. If Denver throws out what they perceive his market value to be he could easily get offended (Elvis anyone?) and perceive it as a low ball offer. It's better for Eric to see what his value on the market really is, then Denver can either match it, or tell him they can't match it with their cap restraints and let him know what their best offer is.

Northman
02-04-2014, 12:24 PM
It also makes sense to not offend the player. If Denver throws out what they perceive his market value to be he could easily get offended (Elvis anyone?) and perceive it as a low ball offer. It's better for Eric to see what his value on the market really is, then Denver can either match it, or tell him they can't match it with their cap restraints and let him know what they're best offer is.

Agreed.

Lancane
02-04-2014, 12:24 PM
We still need to see where he fits in the market. I figure it to be somewhere between Verner and Shields...but another team might feel he deserves more. I think 6 mil a year would be my cap...but DRC and other teams may feel otherwise.

Which could backfire for a team that is facing the loss of seven starters in free agency not to mention will have issues fielding a competitive team. I get the reasoning, but sounds a little like Elway and Fox are content to ride Manning's offensive coattails into another playoff run and not fix what is broken, especially when you consider that the Broncos despite being in the Super Bowl have lost a lot of sexiness around the league, I don't see Free Agents lining up to come to Denver in the wake of our *** kicking, while the Chiefs, Chargers have gained momentum in that aspect as has the entire NFCW.

CoachChaz
02-04-2014, 12:33 PM
Which could backfire for a team that is facing the loss of seven starters in free agency not to mention will have issues fielding a competitive team. I get the reasoning, but sounds a little like Elway and Fox are content to ride Manning's offensive coattails into another playoff run and not fix what is broken, especially when you consider that the Broncos despite being in the Super Bowl have lost a lot of sexiness around the league, I don't see Free Agents lining up to come to Denver in the wake of our *** kicking, while the Chiefs, Chargers have gained momentum in that aspect as has the entire NFCW.

It could...but that's why you contact other players in the event it happens. It's not like Elway is just going to sit back and rest on his laurels and watch 16 players walk away with no back up plan. DRC says he wants to stay in Denver. So, Elway says "go see what you're worth and let us know". If he finds something that exceeds where Elway wants to go, then it is what it is. But to just throw money at a good (not great) player probably isnt the smartest thing.

Like I said...I personally think he fits in the 4 year, 24 mil range. Maybe Elway thinks he's worth more...I dont know. But if this was the case and someone else offers him 5, 38...well...adios MF.

As far as "losing sexiness", I dont think that's an issue. My guess is players see a dominant team with a good VP and a player's coach with a legend at QB. If they think Rivers or Smith have a better chance of getting them a title, then so be it.

silkamilkamonico
02-04-2014, 12:40 PM
I don't see how the Chiefs and Chargers have gained momentum on Denver in terms of players wanting to go there. For one, Denver is going to be attractive to players that want an opportunity to win in the next year or 2. That carried over to guys like DRC and Phillips, and it will to others this year.

Drafting has to be better. Period. Out of all the playoff teams, Denver had the least impact of players from the last 3 drafts. I'm sick and tired of this organization continuing to fail on a year by year basis with the draft and then having to patchwork the team. Depth is a major issue and that's because Denver hasn't been able to round the team out through the draft. If we draft another f'n RB in the top 3 rounds (because RB will more than likely be a need), I won't even know what to think about their strategy.

Lancane
02-04-2014, 12:42 PM
It could...but that's why you contact other players in the event it happens. It's not like Elway is just going to sit back and rest on his laurels and watch 16 players walk away with no back up plan. DRC says he wants to stay in Denver. So, Elway says "go see what you're worth and let us know". If he finds something that exceeds where Elway wants to go, then it is what it is. But to just throw money at a good (not great) player probably isnt the smartest thing.

Like I said...I personally think he fits in the 4 year, 24 mil range. Maybe Elway thinks he's worth more...I dont know. But if this was the case and someone else offers him 5, 38...well...adios MF.

As far as "losing sexiness", I dont think that's an issue. My guess is players see a dominant team with a good VP and a player's coach with a legend at QB. If they think Rivers or Smith have a better chance of getting them a title, then so be it.

Come on Coach, even you know without question the Broncos have lost a lot of their sex appeal in regards to players, not simply because of the whooping we took, but look at the collapse, the quarterback shouldering the blame and the cheesy-*** "We're still proud of our accomplishments" sentimentality. If your a defensive player, do you want to play for the team that is content or a team that his hungry and still has some balls? Offensively I think that Denver will be fine, they'd be better if they adopted the zone blocking scheme fulltime which would make Ball a monster. But offensive players will want to come here, I believe that side of the ball has at least maintained some level of sexiness, but defensively? I think we're in deep ****, especially if we stick with Del Rio and his craptastic defense.

CoachChaz
02-04-2014, 12:46 PM
Come on Coach, even you know without question the Broncos have lost a lot of their sex appeal in regards to players, not simply because of the whooping we took, but look at the collapse, the quarterback shouldering the blame and the cheesy-*** "We're still proud of our accomplishments" sentimentality. If your a defensive player, do you want to play for the team that is content or a team that his hungry and still has some balls? Offensively I think that Denver will be fine, they'd be better if they adopted the zone blocking scheme fulltime which would make Ball a monster. But offensive players will want to come here, I believe that side of the ball has at least maintained some level of sexiness, but defensively? I think we're in deep ****, especially if we stick with Del Rio and his craptastic defense.

No...I cant say that I know that without question. What the hell is so unattractive about a team that has gone 28-8 in the last 2 years and just went to the Super Bowl? Did the Niners lose their luster last year when they lost? How about the Pats?

Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2014, 12:47 PM
Which could backfire for a team that is facing the loss of seven starters in free agency not to mention will have issues fielding a competitive team. I get the reasoning, but sounds a little like Elway and Fox are content to ride Manning's offensive coattails into another playoff run and not fix what is broken, especially when you consider that the Broncos despite being in the Super Bowl have lost a lot of sexiness around the league, I don't see Free Agents lining up to come to Denver in the wake of our *** kicking, while the Chiefs, Chargers have gained momentum in that aspect as has the entire NFCW.

IMO, there could also be another factor for letting all free agents test the market. Once the figures are known as to what the players are worth on the open market, in regards to the players which the Broncos want to keep, there is the possibility of sitting down with Peyton and Champ to see if they would be willing to rework their contracts to free up money.

Also, some of the free agents will put "I want the most money I can get" as the only factor, and it would not matter to them which team offers that. In Eric's case, in the article I posted, he stated that he loves Denver, he loves the Broncos' organization, etc. He has been very involved with the community. I also think in the article that DRC and Adams both stated they wanted to stay with the Broncos. Therefore, I would imagine some of the free agents will weigh all factors, rather than just the money, and if the Broncos are not too much lower than what they can get elsewhere, IMO, they would stay with the Broncos.

weazel
02-04-2014, 12:51 PM
No...I cant say that I know that without question. What the hell is so unattractive about a team that has gone 28-8 in the last 2 years and just went to the Super Bowl? Did the Niners lose their luster last year when they lost? How about the Pats?

it's not that they lost, it's HOW they lost. I would say they lost some mojo with the upcoming FA's

Lancane
02-04-2014, 12:52 PM
I don't see how the Chiefs and Chargers have gained momentum on Denver in terms of players wanting to go there. For one, Denver is going to be attractive to players that want an opportunity to win in the next year or 2. That carried over to guys like DRC and Phillips, and it will to others this year.

Drafting has to be better. Period. Out of all the playoff teams, Denver had the least impact of players from the last 3 drafts. I'm sick and tired of this organization continuing to fail on a year by year basis with the draft and then having to patchwork the team. Depth is a major issue and that's because Denver hasn't been able to round the team out through the draft. If we draft another f'n RB in the top 3 rounds (because RB will more than likely be a need), I won't even know what to think about their strategy.

McCoy is a young coach, he is hungry and he got the better of us this past year and the team is improving and they're passionate, something Denver is lacking Silk. The Chiefs had a defensive collapse, but their defense is close to elite with a little help and boom, they become the favorites in the west. Seattle just laid the ultimate blueprint of how to destroy the Broncos, don't think Reid and McCoy were not taking notes, hell I wouldn't be surprised if the Allen and the Raiders gave us a run for our money next season. Unless we change what is broken and make some changes to fix our image, we'll be nothing more then a high powered offensive team in a copycat league looking to improve defensively.

You mentioned players who want to win, but take into consideration that Denver has been Super Bowl favorites two seasons in a row, coming up short each season despite the opportunities. Not saying you Silk, but some fans are giving this team way too much credit in certain aspects, like Coach Fox. Let me ask you, if you we're a veteran player, would you want to play for the cool, collected and content Coach Fox or the more charismatic Harbaugh in San Fran, Carroll in Seattle, McCoy in San Diego or Kelly in Philadelphia?

weazel
02-04-2014, 12:55 PM
McCoy is a young coach, he is hungry and he got the better of us this past year and the team is improving and they're passionate, something Denver is lacking Silk. The Chiefs had a defensive collapse, but their defense is close to elite with a little help and boom, they become the favorites in the west. Seattle just laid the ultimate blueprint of how to destroy the Broncos, don't think Reid and McCoy were not taking notes, hell I wouldn't be surprised if the Allen and the Raiders gave us a run for our money next season. Unless we change what is broken and make some changes to fix our image, we'll be nothing more then a high powered offensive team in a copycat league looking to improve defensively.

You mentioned players who want to win, but take into consideration that Denver has been Super Bowl favorites two seasons in a row, coming up short each season despite the opportunities. Not saying you Silk, but some fans are giving this team way too much credit in certain aspects, like Coach Fox. Let me ask you, if you we're a veteran player, would you want to play for the cool, collected and content Coach Fox or the more charismatic Harbaugh in San Fran, Carroll in Seattle, McCoy in San Diego or Kelly in Philadelphia?

I dont think anyone is giving the Broncos much credit now... until they prove me wrong, my prediction for every game next year is 43-8 for the opposition. You're only as good as your last game.

silkamilkamonico
02-04-2014, 12:59 PM
McCoy is a young coach, he is hungry and he got the better of us this past year and the team is improving and they're passionate, something Denver is lacking Silk. The Chiefs had a defensive collapse, but their defense is close to elite with a little help and boom, they become the favorites in the west. Seattle just laid the ultimate blueprint of how to destroy the Broncos, don't think Reid and McCoy were not taking notes, hell I wouldn't be surprised if the Allen and the Raiders gave us a run for our money next season. Unless we change what is broken and make some changes to fix our image, we'll be nothing more then a high powered offensive team in a copycat league looking to improve defensively.

You mentioned players who want to win, but take into consideration that Denver has been Super Bowl favorites two seasons in a row, coming up short each season despite the opportunities. Not saying you Silk, but some fans are giving this team way too much credit in certain aspects, like Coach Fox. Let me ask you, if you we're a veteran player, would you want to play for the cool, collected and content Coach Fox or the more charismatic Harbaugh in San Fran, Carroll in Seattle, McCoy in San Diego or Kelly in Philadelphia?

With all due respect, I think the blueprint that was laid was a physical, disciplined, well coached, smash mouth football team that plays with a ton of swagger and confidence. IMO there are only 3 teams in the NFL that is playing like that right now, and they all play in the NFCWest. I think it's a divisional brand that has created a divisional style. All divisions have their own personality. There will be other defenses that are very good in the NFL next year, but the only one that concerns me is whats playing in the NFCWest.

People talk about smash mouth and being more physical, we physically dominated the Patriots and the Chargers in the playoffs. There aren't any AFC teams that scare me right now. That will change in the immediate future, but not in the next year or 2, IMO.

silkamilkamonico
02-04-2014, 01:01 PM
I dont think anyone is giving the Broncos much credit now... until they prove me wrong, my prediction for every game next year is 43-8 for the opposition. You're only as good as your last game.

If that's the honest case, then we're in great hands playing in the AFC.

Lancane
02-04-2014, 01:01 PM
No...I cant say that I know that without question. What the hell is so unattractive about a team that has gone 28-8 in the last 2 years and just went to the Super Bowl? Did the Niners lose their luster last year when they lost? How about the Pats?

The Patriots have lost their sexiness, who the hell is lining up to sign with the team? Last I checked poor Tom Brady was throwing to unknowns and pretty much made them better then people thought they'd be. There are two kinds of free agents, there are the money hungry and then the want to win now sort. All the hype around the NFCW and these younger or more passionate coaches and the shift of respectability going on does change things. Right now the majority of the NFL fans believe the NFC Championship was the true Super Bowl and that Denver was nothing more then a hiccup on the path to the Lombardi, is that sexy to you? Who in the hell wants to be considered chumps who fold under pressure? I guess we'll just have to disagree on this.

G_Money
02-04-2014, 01:08 PM
We should absolutely let the market come to us. Some guys will be valued by other teams more than they are by us, and we'll have to let them go (like Decker). Pierre Garcon got a 5/42 mil contract after his time with Peyton, and Decker's #s blow Garcon's away for his pre-FA time. I expect a team like Carolina to pay him. They had the 29th ranked passing offense (yards), had a TE as their leading pass-catcher, and their main (only?) wideout is 67 year old Steve Smith. Decker can block in the run game and on screens, he's a way bigger target than Smith, and an extra passing threat might help open some extra lanes for the ground game as well.

What's it worth to them? My guess is that Coach is right and his contract is gonna be 8-9 mil a season, which we pretty much can't afford. Not with DT up for a new contract next year along with Von and Chris Harris. We can't pay Decker too and fill our other needs, so we won't.

I don't expect to keep Moreno either, but if the RB market is sluggish we might. I'm still hoping to retain DRC.

But we have to spend our money and draftpicks well this offseason. Getting guys who will peak in 2017 won't help us as much (which means I'd prefer free-agent DL instead of draftees). Gotta be smarter than the average bear; fingers crossed.

~G

Lancane
02-04-2014, 01:12 PM
With all due respect, I think the blueprint that was laid was a physical, disciplined, well coached, smash mouth football team that plays with a ton of swagger and confidence. IMO there are only 3 teams in the NFL that is playing like that right now, and they all play in the NFCWest. I think it's a divisional brand that has created a divisional style. All divisions have their own personality. There will be other defenses that are very good in the NFL next year, but the only one that concerns me is whats playing in the NFCWest.

People talk about smash mouth and being more physical, we physically dominated the Patriots and the Chargers in the playoffs. There aren't any AFC teams that scare me right now. That will change in the immediate future, but not in the next year or 2, IMO.

We physically dominated the Chargers and Patriots for a few quarters, we also let up in both contests and let them almost back in those games thanks to that content nature of the coaching staff not to mention their conservative coaching style. San Francisco had the 5th best defense in the regular season, Seattle was tops but on that list is Carolina, New Orleans and Cincinnati, granted Denver did beat a couple top ten defenses, but again this is a copycat league and teams with defenses close enough to the fold are going to rely heavily on the blueprint. We'll face at least eight such teams capable of such play, two within our own division. We're not that sexy on defense and unless we improve greatly on that side of the ball, no matter what our offense does we'll likely end up holding the short end of the stick.

jhildebrand
02-04-2014, 01:34 PM
The only players I would like to see the Broncos pursue before FA begins (in order) would be: DRC, Shaun Phillips, and maybe Jeremy Mincey. As for the rest of them, I would only want to see movement if they are willing to offer hometown discounts a la New England.

jhildebrand
02-04-2014, 01:38 PM
If Carolina goes after Decker hopefully we can get Tavarres King back.

Lancane
02-04-2014, 01:47 PM
The only players I would like to see the Broncos pursue before FA begins (in order) would be: DRC, Shaun Phillips, and maybe Jeremy Mincey. As for the rest of them, I would only want to see movement if they are willing to offer hometown discounts a la New England.

The Broncos, especially if they're sticking with the 4-3 have no choice but to pursue free agents, too many holes that need filled to compete and not enough in the way of developed players on the roster to fill those roles or enough draft picks to make much of a difference. If Wolfe does not return Denver will have two defensive ends in Smith and Jackson, we have no Mike linebacker to speak of and our corner and safety positions are thin and less capable then expected, and that is just defensively, oh and we'll need some tackle depth as well since Unrein is being allowed to test the market, along with Phillips and DRC.

Northman
02-04-2014, 02:08 PM
it's not that they lost, it's HOW they lost. I would say they lost some mojo with the upcoming FA's

Maybe, maybe not. On the other hand if im a Jared Allen or the like and i see that with the injuries and the heavy reliance on Manning that they were still able to make the SB that might also be enticing.

Joel
02-04-2014, 02:19 PM
My biggest concern is should Rodgers-Cromartie take another deal, that leaves Denver with a far weaker cornerback group then we've seen in awhile. I understand regarding Decker, Moreno, etc. but as to DRC, that is one where I would be hesitant to say it is a smart move.
Yeah, I don't get DRC. We have no idea how completely Harris will recover from his ACL tear, but do know Champ was a shadow of his former greatness last week; we need DRC just to ensure we have at least ONE solid CB next year. And it's one of those premier positions where players can often parlay a single good season and deep playoff run into a big contract because some owner is stupid and/or desperate enough to massively overpay him.

CoachChaz
02-04-2014, 02:19 PM
Maybe, maybe not. On the other hand if im a Jared Allen or the like and i see that with the injuries and the heavy reliance on Manning that they were still able to make the SB that might also be enticing.

The other question is this. When players look at the top 2 or 3 teams in each conference that have a chance at playing in the Super Bowl...which one actually needs them and plays a style that fits their skill? Example...I dont see Allen going to a 3-4 team and Seattle doesnt need DE's

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-04-2014, 02:43 PM
The other question is this. When players look at the top 2 or 3 teams in each conference that have a chance at playing in the Super Bowl...which one actually needs them and plays a style that fits their skill? Example...I dont see Allen going to a 3-4 team and Seattle doesnt need DE's

Agreed, if Allen feels like he's made more than enough and just wants a chance to compete I'm sure Denver would be one of his top two or three choices. If he just wants another big contract he could land anywhere. I would love to see him in Denver at RE.

Joel
02-04-2014, 02:57 PM
IMO, there could also be another factor for letting all free agents test the market. Once the figures are known as to what the players are worth on the open market, in regards to the players which the Broncos want to keep, there is the possibility of sitting down with Peyton and Champ to see if they would be willing to rework their contracts to free up money.
That's a good point; with 2 starters >35 due far >$25 million next year and a ton of OTHER starters due entirely new contracts, it makes sense to add up the latters demands and get an idea how high we must jump before asking Manning and Champ to restructure. That said, they're just insultingly low, that's also a good reason to at least make reasonable initial offers, so some desperate deep-pocketed team doesn't come along and set the bar impossibly high. Maybe Elway doesn't want to risk alienation by appearing to play favorites.


Also, some of the free agents will put "I want the most money I can get" as the only factor, and it would not matter to them which team offers that. In Eric's case, in the article I posted, he stated that he loves Denver, he loves the Broncos' organization, etc. He has been very involved with the community. I also think in the article that DRC and Adams both stated they wanted to stay with the Broncos. Therefore, I would imagine some of the free agents will weigh all factors, rather than just the money, and if the Broncos are not too much lower than what they can get elsewhere, IMO, they would stay with the Broncos.
Well, let's be real, they're not going to head into contract negotiations saying, "screw the team, fans and city: I gots to get paid." That incenses current owners right along with fans and media, and is a huge red flag for new ones because it tells them they'll be in the same boat in a few years.

Look, the bottomline is this is the potential downside of a non-contender abandoning Rebuild Mode to go all in with a $20 million/year againg HoFer who puts them in Win Now Mode: If they don't win a SB within a couple years, decline and retirement starts to loom for some former stars, contracts expire for others, and most short term rentals added to fill in the last pieces fall into one of those two categories as well.

It's possible Elway (gasp!) screwed up by giving DRC and Phillips one year trial contracts rather than long term deals; now they've proven themselves and he must pay them accordingly or let them walk. In DRCs case that made sense because he's had an up and down career and was coming off the latter stage, so who wants to be on the hook for a big long contract if he doesn't get any better. With Phillips though, he's been a stud his whole career and doesn't have many years left anyway, so a 2-3 year deal probably would've been better.

It is what it is though, and hindsight's always 20/20. I'd like to get DRC, Phillips, Moreno, Woodyard and Ayers back, but this process can also trim some dead weight to make next years cap more manageable. I'd help Beadles pack if it saw him gone sooner, and consider Decker a good but not great WR; forced to choose, I don't think Caldwell would lose us much performance, and would save us lots of cash. If he can still run, I'd keep Adams just because I like his coverage and we have little safety depth.

Beyond that, we're mostly not looking at long time key Broncos we'd sorely miss, but rentals, many only signed in the first place due to midseason injury. Mincey, Huff, Cole, Justice and (IIRC) Vallos fall into that boat; none were on the team at the start of camp, but signed only when someone got hurt. Jammer may be done; he said he was just ran bad coverage due to rust in the divisional playoff, but I think age has just slowed him down too much. That leaves just Paris Lenon; I'd rather draft a stud Mike than pay him to impersonate one.

CoachChaz
02-04-2014, 03:00 PM
Agreed, if Allen feels like he's made more than enough and just wants a chance to compete I'm sure Denver would be one of his top two or three choices. If he just wants another big contract he could land anywhere. I would love to see him in Denver at RE.

Well...there was that rumor at the trade deadline that we were trying to work something out with Minny...so I guess there is at least interest on our part. I think he'd be great in Denver for a year or two.

Tned
02-04-2014, 03:00 PM
Come on Coach, even you know without question the Broncos have lost a lot of their sex appeal in regards to players, not simply because of the whooping we took, but look at the collapse, the quarterback shouldering the blame and the cheesy-*** "We're still proud of our accomplishments" sentimentality. If your a defensive player, do you want to play for the team that is content or a team that his hungry and still has some balls? Offensively I think that Denver will be fine, they'd be better if they adopted the zone blocking scheme fulltime which would make Ball a monster. But offensive players will want to come here, I believe that side of the ball has at least maintained some level of sexiness, but defensively? I think we're in deep ****, especially if we stick with Del Rio and his craptastic defense.

This is silly. Denver will clearly be one of the hot spots for free agents who want a chance to win a SB as they will be the favorite in the AFC to return.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

Lancane
02-04-2014, 04:37 PM
This is silly. Denver will clearly be one of the hot spots for free agents who want a chance to win a SB as they will be the favorite in the AFC to return.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

T, as much as I respect you and enjoy the knowledge you share with us, there comes a point that you hit a level of homerism in your faith in this team. Not that, that is actually bad, it sort of allows you to roll with the punches I suppose and not be surprised or let down by their actions or what happens to this team. But, your belief that Denver is a hotspot for free agents is sort of short sighted, last year Denver lost out on several defensive players, some of who chose Seattle over Denver, offensively this team remains sexy which has netted the likes of Vasquez and Welker, and of course it will remain such because Manning makes them look like All-Pro players, defensively? Knighton was benched the season before due to his attitude and such, he wasn't a hot commodity and likewise Rodgers-Cromartie had to prove that he was more then what he showed in Philadelphia. Do you really see Hardy, Melton, Byrd, Talib or Orakpo coming to Denver to play on a Broncos squad that got dismantled in the Super Bowl or going to an up and coming, more defensive capable team like Kansas City, San Francisco, Baltimore, etc.? Unless it's all about the money and Denver is willing to throw that sort of money, but we know the Broncos in most cases are considered a thrifty franchise. I would love to feel optimistic about the upcoming off-season, but Denver has not signed a big name free agent who isn't an aged veteran nearing the end or a player that has something to prove, and I don't believe this helped in anyway, if anything...I feel this made us a very unsexy organization in the eyes of defensive free agents, we may sign a 33 year old defensive end and a 31 year old corner, but what about the 26 year old elite defenders? The same sort that pretty much handed us our ***es and is needed to make a real run?

CoachChaz
02-04-2014, 04:46 PM
T, as much as I respect you and enjoy the knowledge you share with us, there comes a point that you hit a level of homerism in your faith in this team. Not that, that is actually bad, it sort of allows you to roll with the punches I suppose and not be surprised or let down by their actions or what happens to this team. But, your belief that Denver is a hotspot for free agents is sort of short sighted, last year Denver lost out on several defensive players, some of who chose Seattle over Denver, offensively this team remains sexy which has netted the likes of Vasquez and Welker, and of course it will remain such because Manning makes them look like All-Pro players, defensively? Knighton was benched the season before due to his attitude and such, he wasn't a hot commodity and likewise Rodgers-Cromartie had to prove that he was more then what he showed in Philadelphia. Do you really see Hardy, Melton, Byrd, Talib or Orakpo coming to Denver to play on a Broncos squad that got dismantled in the Super Bowl or going to an up and coming, more defensive capable team like Kansas City, San Francisco, Baltimore, etc.? Unless it's all about the money and Denver is willing to throw that sort of money, but we know the Broncos in most cases are considered a thrifty franchise. I would love to feel optimistic about the upcoming off-season, but Denver has not signed a big name free agent who isn't an aged veteran nearing the end or a player that has something to prove, and I don't believe this helped in anyway, if anything...I feel this made us a very unsexy organization in the eyes of defensive free agents, we may sign a 33 year old defensive end and a 31 year old corner, but what about the 26 year old elite defenders? The same sort that pretty much handed us our ***es and is needed to make a real run?

Actually...I see Hardy staying in Carolina...Melton a non-need...Orakpo not fitting on our 4-3 defense...and Byrd getting more money than he is worth with some other team.

That being said, the point is that we dont need the top players available. You dont think we'd be improved and nastier by adding guys like Allen, Beason, Pollard, Shields? No, they arent young stars, but they can get us through until our younger guys develop. We are in WIN NOW mode as long as Manning is on this team, so that's what we need to prepare for short term, while developing the young players for the long term.

But even if we did want a top player...why couldnt we land one? WHere is the history to suggest they only go to the top teams? Look at last year. Kruger left Baltimore for Cleveland, Wallace left Pittsburgh for Miami, Jennings went from GB to Minnesota, Goldson left SF for TB. SOme players actually want to to win and some just want money. The players that want to win will go to the class organizations. Especially if they've won 28 games the last 2 years.

broncohead
02-04-2014, 04:55 PM
CoachCaz why wouldn't Orakpo not fit into a 4-3 defense? I only ask because I believe he could be a very good RDE. Not advocating we should seriously pursue him becasue he'll prob command a big contract.

Also I see a lot of people saying we should just let Decker walk cause he's soft and just get another big WR that is physical. Thats easier said than done. WR is one of the hardest positions to draft and the way the FA market looks the big WRs have baggage. Again I don't think we should dish out a huge contract for him but if it's reasonable for what we know his skillset to be then we should try and keep him. DRC is the only player I would heavily pursue. I also believe that Champ need to restructure and hopefully Manning will though if he doesn't he's earned what he's getting imo

Lancane
02-04-2014, 05:01 PM
Actually...I see Hardy staying in Carolina...Melton a non-need...Orakpo not fitting on our 4-3 defense...and Byrd getting more money than he is worth with some other team.

That being said, the point is that we dont need the top players available. You dont think we'd be improved and nastier by adding guys like Allen, Beason, Pollard, Shields? No, they arent young stars, but they can get us through until our younger guys develop. We are in WIN NOW mode as long as Manning is on this team, so that's what we need to prepare for short term, while developing the young players for the long term.

But even if we did want a top player...why couldnt we land one? WHere is the history to suggest they only go to the top teams? Look at last year. Kruger left Baltimore for Cleveland, Wallace left Pittsburgh for Miami, Jennings went from GB to Minnesota, Goldson left SF for TB. SOme players actually want to to win and some just want money. The players that want to win will go to the class organizations. Especially if they've won 28 games the last 2 years.

I wish I could be so optimistic, but alas...I am not. And while those veterans may help, when as an organization are we going to learn that quality is better then quantity and that youth is needed? Name another Pro-Bowl player drafted by Denver since Elway took over other then Von Miller? Especially in regards to the defensive side of the ball... We're not getting better and older doesn't exactly mean improvement despite their accomplishments before, this is what got the Broncos in the long rut under Shanahan, the whole 15 years of waiting, do you really want to wait another 15 after next season? Sorry, I just think it's fruitless and a waste. Seattle just showed what talented youth can do, San Francisco has been showing it for three years while teams like the Giants and Patriots, once powerhouses are falling to the wayside because they've strayed from the formula that got them their championships.

dogfish
02-04-2014, 05:04 PM
jared allen could be our neil smith. . . make it happen. . .

Joel
02-04-2014, 05:51 PM
All these proposed additions to a defense that played a SB with HALF its starters out yet only gave up 20 pts to a top team are fine, but can't fix the record-setting offense that had all but one starter and STILL got its head kicked in from kickoff to gun.

The injury situation may demand new defensive starters; I don't know how well Miller and Harris' ACLs will rehab, compartment syndrome can do permanent damage if not promptly treated (which it sounds like Moores wasn't) and only God knows wtf is wrong Wolfe or if he'll ever play again. As someone already noted, dislocated hips on 340 lbers like Big Vick usually end badly.

Yet: Can we do something about our porous anemic offensive line that just got shoved around for >3 hours straight on live global TV? I know, I know; record-setting offense, don't fix what ain't broke, etc. 8 pts in a full game of play; that's not just broken, it's disintegrated. #1 defense or not, we were in more danger of breaking the record for LEAST SB points than most. It wasn't because of our first ballot HoFer QB or 3 Pro Bowl receivers. It wasn't even because of Morenos supposed softness or slowness.

Our offensive line got demolished all night, and we must do something about that. Otherwise, the next time our D plays its guts out for a whole SB without half its starters won't end any better than last time. We can't know how Cladys lis-franc is rehabbing, but even if he's 100% Beadles is one of those FAs testing the waters, and I frankly hope we push him in if he won't jump. Franklin looked much improved most of this year but got abused Sunday; replacing an abused RT with an abused backup LT (Clark) can't fix that.

Maybe Franklin's the solution at LG, though I still don't think hoping for a good castoff or converting a failed tackle is the recipe for an All Pro guard. Regardless, we need at LEAST one more good guard or tackle (i.e. MORE than JUST one of each) and preferably both. Even if Clady's 100%, he'll be 28 next year and has been plagued by injury in recent years; he's still the only OT on our roster that MAY be great next year.

I just don't get it. Everyone sees and agrees we got out-physicalled in the SB, yet most people seem to think that means that means our DEFENSIVE line needs work. Historically, that's usually been the case in Denver the last decade or more, but our defensive line has gotten MUCH bigger and stronger since Del Rio arrived. Vickerson and Knighton are monsters; both are >330, and very little of it's fat: Williams is our "small" DT at "just" 314. Derek Wolfe's a fleet 284 and Malik Jackson an equally swift 290; those guys are big enough to be 3-4 DEs.

Our defensive line is plenty big, strong, aggressive and mean enough: It's our OFFENSIVE line that tries to finesse its way around smashmouth opponents. That's not just my opinion; during the playoff games, Simms said so many people have called our offensive line soft that it got back to them and pissed them off, so they came out wanting to make a statement against NE and SD. Well, they made their biggest statement on the global stage Sunday, and it was less a declaration than cry for mercy.

When we're adding FAs to find the final pieces of the championship puzzle, we should begin with the offensive line; Vasquez was a good start last year, but only a start. I've been screaming for a REAL Mike since the end of '05, and will keep screaming till I get him, but convalescence will cure most other ills on our D. It can't fix our offensive line, because they were only down one man and still got devastated all night long.

Lancane
02-04-2014, 06:10 PM
Joel, the offense for the most part will stay intact. The defense is about to be stripped to the core, Unrein, Ayers, Phillips, Woodyard, Lenon, Rodgers-Cromartie, Harris, Carter, Adams, Ihenacho among others are being allowed to test free agency. Your question would make sense, if we had a F'n defense bro. If Denver had a scrimmage right now, the offense could compete without Decker, Beadles, Clady and Moreno, the defense would get schooled. The concern of defense is not simply their level of play, it's about how to fill the holes about to be left and at the same time improve. If the draft was today, Denver would need two defensive ends, a mike linebacker, a safety and a cornerback, each of starter capability at least. And while the defense had injuries, the defense was at the bottom of the barrel even with Miller, Vickerson and Harris in the lineup, that side of the ball needed to improve anyways, injuries are just an excuse (as Elway said). The defense needs to improve, period, but right now the Broncos don't have enough bodies to have a defense.

OrangeHoof
02-04-2014, 06:33 PM
I reject the "sexiness" argument outright. Most players will go where the dollars are before they look at anything else. Only if they have multiple offers that are close on the dollars will a player consider things like climate, taxes or post-season ambitions. Now, if you want to argue that players will take a discount to come here, I think that's a player-by-player situation and players will make their decisions based on a number of factors.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
02-04-2014, 06:50 PM
DRC, Phillips, and Adams (for depth)

Maybe Ayers too if his market value is on the cheap.

Let freedom ring for everybody else.

Lancane
02-04-2014, 06:51 PM
I reject the "sexiness" argument outright. Most players will go where the dollars are before they look at anything else. Only if they have multiple offers that are close on the dollars will a player consider things like climate, taxes or post-season ambitions. Now, if you want to argue that players will take a discount to come here, I think that's a player-by-player situation and players will make their decisions based on a number of factors.

You can reject the argument if you like Hoof, but if you are a defensive player and money is not the key element then sexiness, the attractiveness of the organization does factor, especially in Denver where it's pretty well known that the front office is a bit thrifty. Add in the let downs of the past two seasons, elevation, climate, etc. and it makes Denver a hard choice, especially when you just got raped on national television in the biggest game of them all. I would say had Denver lost 35-43 that the Broncos would still have some sex appeal value, after that *** whooping? Former slaves in their graves rolled over and went "Damn...that's a beatin!"

So, let's say your a pretty good corner, Denver has need but they have few pieces of a good defense compared to Kansas City, San Diego, Seattle, San Francisco, Carolina, Houston or Cincinnati, who would you rather go play for? See, as fans we're bias, we love the Broncos no matter and think of them as the greatest, but in the eyes of players? It's that perspective that matters, not our own. Cleveland fans love the Browns no matter what, the same of Washington fans and I am sure like some on here, they still think those teams are sexy to free agents, that is hindsight. Reality is sometimes different then what we think or believe we know.

CrazyHorse
02-04-2014, 07:21 PM
I think Cromartie is our top priority. He was one of the few positives on a sorry pass D. I'd love if we did what Chaz is saying and went after guys like Allen, Dansby, Whitner. Solid guys who can come in and contribute from day one while we draft players to transition into those positions. We're in win mode for next year and possibly on and this wouldn't entirely mortgage our future.

Lancane
02-04-2014, 07:29 PM
I think Cromartie is our top priority. He was one of the few positives on a sorry pass D. I'd love if we did what Chaz is saying and went after guys like Allen, Dansby, Whitner. Solid guys who can come in and contribute from day one while we draft players to transition into those positions. We're in win mode for next year and possibly on and this wouldn't entirely mortgage our future.

However, age isn't always the answer. We might be in a win now mode, but overpaying veterans on their last leg instead of infusing youth that are better and more competitive could well backfire. Besides, Elway said last off-season that he was against too many such moves and that the Broncos wanted to get younger, faster, etc. Wasn't that why he said we wouldn't go after Urlacher?

broncohead
02-04-2014, 07:35 PM
Going after older vets on an already good defense to shore up a couple positions works. But with the lack of talent that we have I don't believe signing a bunch of vets is the answer. Shanny always tried to fix the real problem with signing vets a bunch of vets for defense

CrazyHorse
02-04-2014, 07:50 PM
Going after older vets on an already good defense to shore up a couple positions works. But with the lack of talent that we have I don't believe signing a bunch of vets is the answer. Shanny always tried to fix the real problem with signing vets a bunch of vets for defense

In some cases it worked, for example Lynch. In other cases it failed miserably like Simeon Rice. It all depends if it's the right fit and price. We would still draft those players at those positions but with the "WIN NOW" state we're in rookies can't always come in right away and contribute. Vets are also capable of providing leadership. You don't think a guy like Jared Allen wouldn't fire up the defense?

I don't think we have a lack of talent. I think the injury bug was a big issue. Besides loss of Dumervil this was pretty much the same defense that ranked second in yards a year ago. It remains to be seen if Wolfe, Miller, Harris, Vickerson, and Moore can regain their form and be productive. If they can however, that's awesome. Couple that with some of the aforementioned guys like Whitner, Dansby, Beason, and Allen were looking pretty good.

Tned
02-04-2014, 07:51 PM
With few exceptions, free agents go to a team for one of two reasons. Highest bidder or chance to win SB.

Sex appeal is down there below state tax rate, endorsement opportunities and other less critical factors.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

Joel
02-04-2014, 08:33 PM
Unless Harris, Miller, Moore, Vickerson and/or Wolfe can't return from injury, we don't need to shore up our D. We need a real Mike like a junkie needs smack, and have for a decade, but that's it.

It wasn't our DEFENSE that got blown off the ball so badly from the kickoff that it needed FOUR DRIVES to get a SINGLE FIRST DOWN! Good grief, people, our D spent practically the whole first half on the field, yet only gave up ONE TD at the end, on a 37 yd "drive." The Super Bowls leading rusher had <50 yds. And that was with HALF the starters not even dressed.

Seriously, what the expletive-deleted do ya'll want from them?! Our D did their "bend but don't break" thing well, but the offense that beats FGs with TDs only managed ONE TD ALL GAME.

I dare ANYONE to look back at the drive charts—especially how ours ended and where Seattles began—and tell me our D lost that game because they weren't mean or tough enough.

Give our HoF QB, 1000 yd rusher/500 yd receiver and Pro Bowl receiving corps an offensive line HALF as mean and tough as our defensive line, and they'll win you a Super Bowl against ANYONE.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
02-04-2014, 08:43 PM
Unless Harris, Miller, Moore, Vickerson and/or Wolfe can't return from injury, we don't need to shore up our D. We need a real Mike like a junkie needs smack, and have for a decade, but that's it.

It wasn't our DEFENSE that got blown off the ball so badly from the kickoff that it needed FOUR DRIVES to get a SINGLE FIRST DOWN! Good grief, people, our D spent practically the whole first half on the field, yet only gave up ONE TD at the end, on a 37 yd "drive." The Super Bowls leading rusher had <50 yds. And that was with HALF the starters not even dressed.

Seriously, what the expletive-deleted do ya'll want from them?! Our D did their "bend but don't break" thing well, but the offense that beats FGs with TDs only managed ONE TD ALL GAME.

I dare ANYONE to look back at the drive charts—especially how ours ended and where Seattles began—and tell me our D lost that game because they weren't mean or tough enough.

Give our HoF QB, 1000 yd rusher/500 yd receiver and Pro Bowl receiving corps an offensive line HALF as mean and tough as our defensive line, and they'll win you a Super Bowl against ANYONE.

The issue I have with this in your first sentence. There's too much speculation to think one, if any, of those players you listed will come back the same. Two might be done for life and the other 3 will still be recovering when the season starts next year. Before those injuries, we needed a dime corner, safety, and true MLB.

The defense didn't lose the game and did play better in the postseason, but that doesn't mean it doesn't need improved.

DenBronx
02-04-2014, 09:08 PM
Joel I am shocked I agree with you but I do. Lol



"We need a real MIKE like a junkie needs smack"

Lancane
02-04-2014, 09:16 PM
Unless Harris, Miller, Moore, Vickerson and/or Wolfe can't return from injury, we don't need to shore up our D. We need a real Mike like a junkie needs smack, and have for a decade, but that's it.

It wasn't our DEFENSE that got blown off the ball so badly from the kickoff that it needed FOUR DRIVES to get a SINGLE FIRST DOWN! Good grief, people, our D spent practically the whole first half on the field, yet only gave up ONE TD at the end, on a 37 yd "drive." The Super Bowls leading rusher had <50 yds. And that was with HALF the starters not even dressed.

Seriously, what the expletive-deleted do ya'll want from them?! Our D did their "bend but don't break" thing well, but the offense that beats FGs with TDs only managed ONE TD ALL GAME.

I dare ANYONE to look back at the drive charts—especially how ours ended and where Seattles began—and tell me our D lost that game because they weren't mean or tough enough.

Give our HoF QB, 1000 yd rusher/500 yd receiver and Pro Bowl receiving corps an offensive line HALF as mean and tough as our defensive line, and they'll win you a Super Bowl against ANYONE.

Joel, we don't have a defense to speak of. Wolfe (Unsure Status) Rodgers-Cromartie (Testing Free Agency), Harris (Testing Free Agency), Lenon (Testing Free Agency), Unrein (Testing Free Agency), Moore (Unsure Status), Ihenacho (Testing Free Agency), Carter (Testing Free Agency), Phillips (Testing Free Agency), Woodyard (Testing Free Agency) and I am sure I am forgetting some names as well...everyone of those names have started at some point for this organization. You want to bet all your money on a defense that has a backfield manned by Bailey and who? Miller could be suspended and needs to get back on the field, Trevathan is our best linebacker right now, the interior is alright with Williams, Knighton and Vickerson, but needs depth and defensive end? Wolfe, Smith and Jackson are the three ends we have under contract, Wolfe and Jackson are bigger ends, more 3-4 ends then 4-3 and Smith is more of a 3-4 OLB. This defense is far from being complete... I don't care if they play bend don't break, but they need to be better, period.

As to the last statement you made, the Broncos had the best offense in NFL history and they got schooled, you really think they're good enough to face San Francisco or Seattle in another Super Bowl?

OrangeHoof
02-04-2014, 10:22 PM
So, let's say your a pretty good corner, Denver has need but they have few pieces of a good defense compared to Kansas City, San Diego, Seattle, San Francisco, Carolina, Houston or Cincinnati, who would you rather go play for? See, as fans we're bias, we love the Broncos no matter and think of them as the greatest, but in the eyes of players? It's that perspective that matters, not our own. Cleveland fans love the Browns no matter what, the same of Washington fans and I am sure like some on here, they still think those teams are sexy to free agents, that is hindsight. Reality is sometimes different then what we think or believe we know.

If I'm a corner and I have those choices and the money was completely equal, the Broncos would be very attractive and two big reasons are 1) you only have to face Peyton Manning in practice and 2) your odds of going deep in the playoffs are as good as practically anywhere.

Lancane
02-04-2014, 10:28 PM
If I'm a corner and I have those choices and the money was completely equal, the Broncos would be very attractive and two big reasons are 1) you only have to face Peyton Manning in practice and 2) your odds of going deep in the playoffs are as good as practically anywhere.

But you're also bias. When I played ball and dreamed of going pro, I also saw myself demanding a trade so that I could play for the Broncos...though we know that is far from realistic. I believe that the level of sexiness is there for offensive players, but for defensive players? I'd be more inclined to join a team that has several playmakers on that side of the ball rather then going to a team that has one or none, depending on who you ask.

Joel
02-04-2014, 10:51 PM
The issue I have with this in your first sentence. There's too much speculation to think one, if any, of those players you listed will come back the same. Two might be done for life and the other 3 will still be recovering when the season starts next year. Before those injuries, we needed a dime corner, safety, and true MLB.
That's a fair point as far as it goes, but until we know the outlook for at least some of those seriously injured starters we don't know whether heavily investing (either money or high draft picks) there is vital or would simply waste resources needed just as desperately on the offensive line. Put another way, we don't yet know if we need a new NT, RDE, SLB or CB, but DO ALREADY know we DEFINITELY need a new LG and OT, possibly even a C.

I completely agree on the MLB; no argument there. That's only one spot though; we could spend our top three picks on a G, MLB and OT (in whatever order one prefers) and still have later picks for safety depth. Webster had a baptism of fire his rookie year, so I feel pretty good about him as one of our 3 starting CBs next year if Champ moves to FS or simply leaves; if he does neither, I feel VERY good about a sophomore Webster as dimebackup.


The defense didn't lose the game and did play better in the postseason, but that doesn't mean it doesn't need improved.
Doesn't it? If our offense played like, well, OUR offense, we win that game going away, against what is (because our offense reeked) far and away the NFLs best team. Even without half our starters and forced to play pratically the entire first half against a ground 'n pound team, our offense gave up all of 10 pts. That's it; I won't dispute the 2 FGs, but Seattle got the ball on our 37 for their first TD (and still needed 3rd down PI in the end zone to punch it in) so I only count 4 of those points against the D. Definitely not the pick-six.


Joel, we don't have a defense to speak of. Wolfe (Unsure Status) Rodgers-Cromartie (Testing Free Agency), Harris (Testing Free Agency), Lenon (Testing Free Agency), Unrein (Testing Free Agency), Moore (Unsure Status), Ihenacho (Testing Free Agency), Carter (Testing Free Agency), Phillips (Testing Free Agency), Woodyard (Testing Free Agency) and I am sure I am forgetting some names as well...everyone of those names have started at some point for this organization.
I'm less concerned about losing guys who MIGHT be back and DIDN'T cost us a Super Bowl than keeping guys who I don't WANT back and DID cost us a Super Bowl.

Let's go through the list named:

Wolfe: (Unsure status) See above. As you say, he and Jackson could both be 3-4 DEs, playing both pass and run well with ability to move inside in 4-3 nickel; Jackson's contracted through 2015.

DRC: Testing Free Agency. That's a mistake, IMHO; we should lock him up now, because CB is one of those high profile spots where desperate teams will pay through the nose, often just for above average players. I can almost guarantee the market price will be higher than any offer he'd accept from us right now.

Harris: He's an RFA, so going nowhere till 2015. When I confirmed that via Rotoworld they also said his doctors said his ACL is "only" 30% torn, so he's expected to make a pretty good recovery; it sounds like there's no ALL issue and it won't need actual replacement, but the original ligament can heal. If so, that's HUGE.

Lenon: Testing Free Agency. I want a "franchise defensive QB," so test away and I'm fine with signing/drafting a longterm replacement starter.

Unrein: Testing Free Agency. Good luck with that, Mitch, but if Big Vick makes a full recovery I loved his play even more than Knightons; they're both powerful dominating DTs on the plus side of 330, and either can play NT, while, even as a first round rookie at 314, Sylvester Williams has shown himself more than capable of playing alongside either as sub or even starter.

Moore: (Unsure Status) Yeah, and it frankly doesn't sound good, but, just as frankly, I've never seen the big deal about Moore; I wanted Champ to take his FS spot when Moore was healthy last year, and see no reason to change that view. Were he a little younger, I'd rather re-sign Adams, and might anyway.

Ihenacho: Exclusive Rights Free Agent, which means he's a FA, but not really: No contract, but if we offer him third-year minimum wage, he MUST take it or sit out a year; going nowhere.

Carter: RFA. We might let him go if someone offers him a lot, but I doubt anyone will; if so, he'd not be a huge loss with DRC, Harris, Webster and possibly Champ. Backup spot, backup quality.

Phillips: Testing Free Agency. 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB is another premier spot at least one desperate team's usually willing to overpay for (enjoy the playoffs, Doom? ;)) but not for a guy who's 33 and won't finish a long/expensive contract anyway. I'd still sign him now, just like DRC (he or Moreno'd be my next priority,) but we should keep him or Ayers, and Quanterus Smith should be ready, too.

Ayers: Testing Free Agency. He's in the same boat as Phillips, but almost certainly has a lower market value even though 4 years younger. I'd be comfortable with either but prefer Phillips for Win Now Mode; I can't imagine we'd lose BOTH of them though.

Woodyard: Testing Free Agency. He'd be my fourth priority behind Moreno/Philliips, but I'd stick him back at Will where he belongs, with Trevathan a solid backup. It's a waste of talent, I know, and as long as Trevathan stayed healthy we could probably let Woodyard walk, but if we (FINALLY) get the Mike I've wanted for a decade the situation wouldn't be dire even sans Woodyard.

The defensive situation as a whole isn't actually that dire; we need a legit defensive QB who's stellar in coverage, run stuffing, pass rushing, reads and audibles, but the FA situation doesn't change that unless it gives us the cash to sign a guy like Beason (irony: I wanted him when the Giants signed him, but am NOT going into that debate again. ;)) Otherwise, we might need a 4/5th CB OR safety depth, but not BOTH unless Champ won't renegotiate. The defensive situation's uncertain, but not truly dire; we'll have the pieces, it's just not yet clear who'll they'll be.


You want to bet all your money on a defense that has a backfield manned by Bailey and who? Miller could be suspended and needs to get back on the field, Trevathan is our best linebacker right now, the interior is alright with Williams, Knighton and Vickerson, but needs depth and defensive end? Wolfe, Smith and Jackson are the three ends we have under contract, Wolfe and Jackson are bigger ends, more 3-4 ends then 4-3 and Smith is more of a 3-4 OLB. This defense is far from being complete... I don't care if they play bend don't break, but they need to be better, period.
DRC and Harris outside, Webster in the slot, Carter (or a comparable replacement; Carter's nothing special) at dimebackup
Champ at FS and Ihenacho at SS.

Or, if Champ doesn't go to safety, DRC and Harris outside, Champ in the slot, Webster at dimebackup, Ihenacho at SS and sign a FS if we can't/won't re-sign Mike Adams.

Either way, we're looking at signing all of ONE player (who won't even start if Champ goes to FS) and some safety depth. That's if Moore doesn't return and one thinks no more than I of Bruton and Bolden. Same if Moore's back but Champ's not (though his recent comments suggest he's open to FS AND contract restructure.) We're in good shape either way; just need a backup.

I'm unaware of any additional suspension pending for Miller, so you're welcome and encouraged to enlighten me; my understanding was he got 2 weeks tacked onto his initial 4 for trying to cheat the test, but that was it. We don't know Wolfes future (or anyones, really) but Vickerson, Knighton and Williams would make the inside more than alright, and Phillips and Jackson are fine bookends, especially if Wolfe DOES come back and we can keep Ayers, too. Unless we lose Phillips AND Ayers we need one backup.

At LB, we need a Mike as desperately as ever, but IF we get one Woodyard and Trevathan would give us more talent than we need at Will, while Miller's a great Sam and Irving a good backup.

So we need a Mike and a couple backups; hardly a defense in distress. Even without them they still played a Hell of a Super Bowl, I don't care what anyone says. The ground 'n pound SB champs power run game produced a SB leading rusher with <50 yds, the only TD we allowed in the first half was midway through the second quarter after the D'd been on the field practically the whole game and all that happened without half the starters we get at least SOME of back next year.


As to the last statement you made, the Broncos had the best offense in NFL history and they got schooled, you really think they're good enough to face San Francisco or Seattle in another Super Bowl?
No; that's precisely my point. Our D didn't lose SB XLVIII and wouldn't lose SB IL against SF, especially not if half the starters don't even dress—but do you really think SFs defense wouldn't knock our Beadles and Franklins teeth down their throat as easily and often as Seattles did? Speaking of SF, if we want to win SBs, that's the kind of line we need.

Shoring up a defense that doesn't need it won't do that though; it just can't. Our offense must add FAR more than just one good starter and a couple backups. Especially if Moreno goes; Ball's gotten better at picking up blitzes, but still has a ways to go to match Moreno as an everydown back. And our offensive line is just awful; Vasquez and MAYBE Ramirez are the only really good ones, and we don't know Clady will fully recover from his injury either; it's a far more serious version of what sidelined Champ most of the year.

TXBRONC
02-04-2014, 11:51 PM
It also makes sense to not offend the player. If Denver throws out what they perceive his market value to be he could easily get offended (Elvis anyone?) and perceive it as a low ball offer. It's better for Eric to see what his value on the market really is, then Denver can either match it, or tell him they can't match it with their cap restraints and let him know what their best offer is.

Dumervil was already under contract so this isn't the same thing.

jhildebrand
02-05-2014, 12:39 AM
The D wasn't the reason this team lost but that doesn't mean the unit doesn't/shouldn't need to be addressed. There will be losses on D. Trevathan and Knighton are good pieces. We need to see what and how Miller comes back, not to mention he has a 1 year suspension that could happen at any moment. We need a solid MLB (although I believe and have that Irving should be that guy). Lastly we need S help all over the place! Our D could use an upgrade and some nastiness. They kept us in the game in the first half but that leaves more to be desired namely controlling a game or giving the O time to get their shit together. We could use a D that can set the tone and pace of a game and you do that with physical nastiness and speed. Our O has been addressed time and again and needs little.

Three FAs available are: Henry Melton, Greg Hardy, and Michael Jones. Jones has the best chance of hitting the market because he was tagged once and Cinci has already paid a couple of guys. I am sure King can speak to what kind of player the dude is.

jhildebrand
02-05-2014, 12:44 AM
Larentee McCray was looking good in camp and preseason prior to injury as was Quanterus Smith. Still it is a tall order expecting to hit on a bunch of late round/undrafted picks

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
02-05-2014, 12:46 AM
The D wasn't the reason this team lost but that doesn't mean the unit doesn't/shouldn't need to be addressed. There will be losses on D. Trevathan and Knighton are good pieces. We need to see what and how Miller comes back, not to mention he has a 1 year suspension that could happen at any moment. We need a solid MLB (although I believe and have that Irving should be that guy). Lastly we need S help all over the place! Our D could use an upgrade and some nastiness. They kept us in the game in the first half but that leaves more to be desired namely controlling a game or giving the O time to get their shit together. We could use a D that can set the tone and pace of a game and you do that with physical nastiness and speed. Our O has been addressed time and again and needs little.

Three FAs available are: Henry Melton, Greg Hardy, and Michael Jones. Jones has the best chance of hitting the market because he was tagged once and Cinci has already paid a couple of guys. I am sure King can speak to what kind of player the dude is.

I agree with this, but I'm not sure if this meets our FOs philosophy. Melton's recent arrest probably rules him out and Greg Hardy is not walking and/or he is out of our price range. Not sure who Michael Jones is.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-18-2014, 01:13 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000326367/article/eric-decker-i-need-to-do-whats-best-for-my-family


Yes, saying that you need to do what's "best for your family" is a cliche that athletes fall back on before free agency. But these comments should be put in context of what's been buzzing around Decker. NFL Media's Ian Rapoport reported on Super Bowl Sunday that the Broncos fear they will lose Decker because he wants more money than they are willing to pay. Internally, the team views Decker as a No. 2 receiver. Decker and his agent can't be thrilled with that news coming out.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-20-2014, 12:18 PM
Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 7m

@chris4428 If they can get Moreno for the right price, they'll keep him. They certainly won't over-extend.

Traveler
02-21-2014, 03:55 AM
The D wasn't the reason this team lost but that doesn't mean the unit doesn't/shouldn't need to be addressed. There will be losses on D. Trevathan and Knighton are good pieces. We need to see what and how Miller comes back, not to mention he has a 1 year suspension that could happen at any moment. We need a solid MLB (although I believe and have that Irving should be that guy). Lastly we need S help all over the place! Our D could use an upgrade and some nastiness. They kept us in the game in the first half but that leaves more to be desired namely controlling a game or giving the O time to get their shit together. We could use a D that can set the tone and pace of a game and you do that with physical nastiness and speed. Our O has been addressed time and again and needs little.

Three FAs available are: Henry Melton, Greg Hardy, and Michael Jones. Jones has the best chance of hitting the market because he was tagged once and Cinci has already paid a couple of guys. I am sure King can speak to what kind of player the dude is.

I think you mean Michael Johnson

Denver Native (Carol)
03-03-2014, 01:04 PM
Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 52m

RT @1_4_Wade: Why are the broncos not talking to any of their free agents?? --->>they're talking to the ones they want, trust me.

Lancane
03-03-2014, 01:35 PM
Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 52m

RT @1_4_Wade: Why are the broncos not talking to any of their free agents?? --->>they're talking to the ones they want, trust me.

We've heard that Shaun Phillips and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie's Agents are both in contract discussions with the Broncos. I've not heard of any others though I've also heard snippets about how the brass has plans to speak to Champ about his contract.

arapaho2
03-03-2014, 05:00 PM
With all due respect, I think the blueprint that was laid was a physical, disciplined, well coached, smash mouth football team that plays with a ton of swagger and confidence. IMO there are only 3 teams in the NFL that is playing like that right now, and they all play in the NFCWest. I think it's a divisional brand that has created a divisional style. All divisions have their own personality. There will be other defenses that are very good in the NFL next year, but the only one that concerns me is whats playing in the NFCWest.

People talk about smash mouth and being more physical, we physically dominated the Patriots and the Chargers in the playoffs. There aren't any AFC teams that scare me right now. That will change in the immediate future, but not in the next year or 2, IMO.


but whats the point of getting there again only to be man handled and made to look feeble and weak?