Soft?

[spikerman]

We've all talked about the Broncos being "soft" or a "finesse" team, but what exactly does that mean? I've called them that too, but as I think about it, I'm not sure what makes a team soft. These are NFL players so I would imagine that they're all tough enough, but is it an attitude or a physical attribute? Obviously Seattle was playing on a different level than Denver last night, but why is that? How does one group of men seem so much tougher than another group when they're all coming from the same talent pool? Moreover, how do you fix the problem? Last night's team reminded me way too much of the 80s Broncos, who would have been beaten by the other teams' cheerleaders.

[CoachChaz]

I dont know what makes a team soft or hard, but what I saw last night was one team that wanted a championship and another that was just...there. Maybe that's the answer to your question. Hunger. It was obvious from the beginning that Seattle was there to win the title and Denver was there to play another game.

[Mike]

We've all talked about the Broncos being "soft" or a "finesse" team, but what exactly does that mean? I've called them that too, but as I think about it, I'm not sure what makes a team soft. These are NFL players so I would imagine that they're all tough enough, but is it an attitude or a physical attribute? Obviously Seattle was playing on a different level than Denver last night, but why is that? How does one group of men seem so much tougher than another group when they're all coming from the same talent pool? Moreover, how do you fix the problem? Last night's team reminded me way too much of the 80s Broncos, who would have been beaten by the other teams' cheerleaders.

For me, it is the fire, intensity, and God help me for saying it, but swagger. It is about play that just comes out and hits you right in the mouth, is not intimidated, plays physical and pushes your shit in. Seattle layed the wood...Denver layed an egg. Does that come from coaching, a type of player or a group of players feeding off each other, I don't know. Whatever it is, I wish Denver would find it, hire it, sign it, draft it.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think there is something about the physicallity of this team. Our offense was built on Manning outsmarting everyone and getting the ball to recievers on crossing routes or in places down the field where they could have open catches. Our running game was designed to relieve the passing game, or change of pace, or to take advantage of teams weak against the run. On defense we had spead and a stout DLine to stop the run, but no heavy hitters at LB or S to punish the oposition. These teams remind me of the teams of the 80's where they got exposed against the physical powerhouses in the NFC.

Our teams in the late 90's imposed their will on both defense and offense with a dominant running attack, big physical pass catchers at WR and TE, and LB's and S's that would hit you and were nasty. The way we manhandled the Packers DLine in our 1st SB victory is my happiest moment as a fan, true it wasn't by overpowering them but we played tougher and nastier. Our current team doesn't have that.

Our best bet would be to rebuild the defense to get that big and nasty streak. We have some of the building blocks, but we need the MLB and safties that can bring it and some more pass rush options. We also need a year where these guys aren't hurt all the time.

[CoachChaz]

I think there is something about the physicallity of this team. Our offense was built on Manning outsmarting everyone and getting the ball to recievers on crossing routes or in places down the field where they could have open catches. Our running game was designed to relieve the passing game, or change of pace, or to take advantage of teams weak against the run. On defense we had spead and a stout DLine to stop the run, but no heavy hitters at LB or S to punish the oposition. These teams remind me of the teams of the 80's where they got exposed against the physical powerhouses in the NFC.

Our teams in the late 90's imposed their will on both defense and offense with a dominant running attack, big physical pass catchers at WR and TE, and LB's and S's that would hit you and were nasty. The way we manhandled the Packers DLine in our 1st SB victory is my happiest moment as a fan, true it wasn't by overpowering them but we played tougher and nastier. Our current team doesn't have that.

Our best bet would be to rebuild the defense to get that big and nasty streak. We have some of the building blocks, but we need the MLB and safties that can bring it and some more pass rush options. We also need a year where these guys aren't hurt all the time.


Amen!!!!

[GEM]

God damn right we're soft. While Seahawks took our heads off during tackles, we were whiffing arm tackles....AGAIN!

[LRtagger]

When you have a soft coach you have to have a couple fiery leaders to motivate. We have a soft coach and soft leaders.

Name one individual on this team that has the personality and respect to fire up the rest of the guys when they are down. We don't have a single one - it's one of the reasons we had to have Dawkins come in and talk to the team before they traveled. Our motivation for the game was "we want to help cement Peyton's legacy". That's bullshit. Our motivation should have been to knock the piss out of the guys on the other team.

Bunch of soft spoken vaginas that have a hard time dealing with getting punched in the mouth = SOFT

[Northman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUlnzyb_LNE

[Nomad]

I think there is something about the physicallity of this team. Our offense was built on Manning outsmarting everyone and getting the ball to recievers on crossing routes or in places down the field where they could have open catches. Our running game was designed to relieve the passing game, or change of pace, or to take advantage of teams weak against the run. On defense we had spead and a stout DLine to stop the run, but no heavy hitters at LB or S to punish the oposition. These teams remind me of the teams of the 80's where they got exposed against the physical powerhouses in the NFC.

Our teams in the late 90's imposed their will on both defense and offense with a dominant running attack, big physical pass catchers at WR and TE, and LB's and S's that would hit you and were nasty. The way we manhandled the Packers DLine in our 1st SB victory is my happiest moment as a fan, true it wasn't by overpowering them but we played tougher and nastier. Our current team doesn't have that.

Our best bet would be to rebuild the defense to get that big and nasty streak. We have some of the building blocks, but we need the MLB and safties that can bring it and some more pass rush options. We also need a year where these guys aren't hurt all the time.

How do you suppose they fix that?

[BigDaddyBronco]

How do you suppose they fix that?

That is just luck. WE accomplished a lot with the injuries we had this year. No doubt about that. We had all the pieces in place last year but lost to Balt, that is why that hurt so much. It was kind of a miracle to even make it this far with the defensive issues we had.

[G_Money]

Definitions:

Finesse team - when your team looks terrific as long as no one gets in their way. On offense, this means crisp execution and receivers can run their routes exactly as they do in practice, perhaps even those no-contact padless practices. When a physical team takes it to a finesse team (by mugging their receivers to mess up timing, or jamming the LOS, or pressuring the QB) the finesse aspects fall apart. The offensive mechanism is a finely tuned watch - it doesn't work when you drop it in the mud. We are a finesse team, as are the Saints (demolished twice by the Seahawks) and the Bengals, the Texans were a finesse team, the Falcons are... it hasn't gone well for finesse teams recently.

For a finesse team to beat a physical team, they need to be more talented. We were not more talented than Seattle, so we lost. Because we were improperly prepared to play them, we got crushed.

Soft - Being punched in the mouth and crying instead of punching back. I don't mind that Seattle landed the first blow. The first couple blows. But then you swing back. Momentum is a myth. Momentum happens to teams that cannot take getting punched in the mouth, get back up, and pound back on their opponent. This team has a lot of pugilistic skill, and a glass jaw. We look great as long as we're the only ones landing blows.

So IMO we played like BOTH a soft team AND a finesse team. Worst of both worlds in that game. At least in other games this year we did it to ourselves. We came out of the gate like morons but fought back. Our soft losses were to SD and NE. The Indy game we lost because of stupid errors we could not overcome, but we did fight back.

But this team, for this game, played like the worst version of itself, and it seems like it did so because nobody told them it was gonna be a fight. It would be hard. They would have to scrap and claw. This is not a team that likes to scrap and claw. That's gotta change.

~G

[Mike]

I hate to say it, but we need some just dirty/tough/jawing football players. We focus on class and good players as fans. But I am ready for some tone-setting, trash talking, I'm coming to destroy and pillage and I don't give a **** about your PC world type of players.

[Nomad]

I hate to say it, but we need some just dirty/tough/jawing football players. We focus on class and good players as fans. But I am ready for some tone-setting, trash talking, I'm coming to destroy and pillage and I don't give a **** about your PC world type of players.

So Shannon Sharp (talked a lot, but backed it up on the field), Bill Romonawski (considered dirty) and Steve Atwater (heavy hitter) weren't all that bad:lol:

[Northman]

Definitions:

Finesse team - when your team looks terrific as long as no one gets in their way. On offense, this means crisp execution and receivers can run their routes exactly as they do in practice, perhaps even those no-contact padless practices. When a physical team takes it to a finesse team (by mugging their receivers to mess up timing, or jamming the LOS, or pressuring the QB) the finesse aspects fall apart. The offensive mechanism is a finely tuned watch - it doesn't work when you drop it in the mud. We are a finesse team, as are the Saints (demolished twice by the Seahawks) and the Bengals, the Texans were a finesse team, the Falcons are... it hasn't gone well for finesse teams recently.

For a finesse team to beat a physical team, they need to be more talented. We were not more talented than Seattle, so we lost. Because we were improperly prepared to play them, we got crushed.

Soft - Being punched in the mouth and crying instead of punching back. I don't mind that Seattle landed the first blow. The first couple blows. But then you swing back. Momentum is a myth. Momentum happens to teams that cannot take getting punched in the mouth, get back up, and pound back on their opponent. This team has a lot of pugilistic skill, and a glass jaw. We look great as long as we're the only ones landing blows.

So IMO we played like BOTH a soft team AND a finesse team. Worst of both worlds in that game. At least in other games this year we did it to ourselves. We came out of the gate like morons but fought back. Our soft losses were to SD and NE. The Indy game we lost because of stupid errors we could not overcome, but we did fight back.

But this team, for this game, played like the worst version of itself, and it seems like it did so because nobody told them it was gonna be a fight. It would be hard. They would have to scrap and claw. This is not a team that likes to scrap and claw. That's gotta change.

~G

Totally agree.

[Northman]

So Shannon Sharp (talked a lot, but backed it up on the field), Bill Romonawski (considered dirty) and Steve Atwater (heavy hitter) weren't all that bad:lol:

Maybe not but i would take them all in a heartbeat right now (in their prime of course)

[GEM]

I hate to say it, but we need some just dirty/tough/jawing football players. We focus on class and good players as fans. But I am ready for some tone-setting, trash talking, I'm coming to destroy and pillage and I don't give a **** about your PC world type of players.

But everyone hates players like Romanowski. :laugh:

[GEM]

So Shannon Sharp (talked a lot, but backed it up on the field), Bill Romonawski (considered dirty) and Steve Atwater (heavy hitter) weren't all that bad:lol:

We're on the same vibes this morning, Nomad! :D

[Mike]

But everyone hates players like Romanowski. :laugh:

I loved Romo when he was a Bronco. Hated him as a Raider. I want those players that everyone hates except for the team he plays for.

[turftoad]

I think there is something about the physicallity of this team. Our offense was built on Manning outsmarting everyone and getting the ball to recievers on crossing routes or in places down the field where they could have open catches. Our running game was designed to relieve the passing game, or change of pace, or to take advantage of teams weak against the run. On defense we had spead and a stout DLine to stop the run, but no heavy hitters at LB or S to punish the oposition. These teams remind me of the teams of the 80's where they got exposed against the physical powerhouses in the NFC.

Our teams in the late 90's imposed their will on both defense and offense with a dominant running attack, big physical pass catchers at WR and TE, and LB's and S's that would hit you and were nasty. The way we manhandled the Packers DLine in our 1st SB victory is my happiest moment as a fan, true it wasn't by overpowering them but we played tougher and nastier. Our current team doesn't have that.

Our best bet would be to rebuild the defense to get that big and nasty streak. We have some of the building blocks, but we need the MLB and safties that can bring it and some more pass rush options. We also need a year where these guys aren't hurt all the time.

Agreed. That was a game where you have to have your guys in there. Clady, Miller, Wolfe, Big Vick! Harris and Moore would have made a diff in that game.

[GEM]

I loved Romo when he was a Bronco. Hated him as a Raider. I want those players that everyone hates except for the team he plays for.

I don't care what anyone says....he's a needed evil. I loved him.

[GEM]

Agreed. That was a game where you have to have your guys in there. Clady, Miller, Wolfe, Big Vick! Harris and Moore would have made a diff in that game.

They would have helped, yes. BUT they weren't in there for quite a bit of the season and we never looked as bad as we did yesterday. I don't even want to consider Miller for next season. He will be getting tested on the weekly and I don't think he's smart enough to stay off the wacky tobacci. I have closed myself off to believing we'll see a year long suspension sooner rather than later. :(

[DenBronx]

Romonowski was a badass. We have been missing that intensity on our defense for years.

Damn right we are soft. We need that edge again.

MLB and BOTH safety positions need to be a concern.

[Lancane]

But everyone hates players like Romanowski. :laugh:

Not everyone GEM, I miss Romo, my idle growing up was Lyle Alzado, we need some mean, gritty football players who are not afraid to tango. Screw sportsmanship and the nice guy crap, after that *** whooping and if I was Elway, I'd be looking for the 'crush' to go with the orange.

[Northman]

Bill was a dick but he was our dick.

[weazel]

I felt soft watching that game last night

[DenBronx]

They needed viagra.



This loss was unforgivable....absolutely unforgivable. We got punked and we tapped out early. This loss is painful because this game will always be remembered and thrown in our faces.


I really don't want to watch the news or sports until next year. My Facebook account is already getting trolled.



Yeah we didn't deserve go even go.




Maybe I'll choose hiking or something as a hobby now. Not proud of these soft Broncos anymore. I was in shock last night but I woke up very angry at my team.

[Lancane]

They needed viagra.



This loss was unforgivable....absolutely unforgivable. We got punked and we tapped out early. This loss is painful because this game will always be remembered and thrown in our faces.


I really don't want to watch the news or sports until next year. My Facebook account is already getting trolled.



Yeah we didn't deserve go even go.




Maybe I'll choose hiking or something as a hobby now. Not proud of these soft Broncos anymore. I was in shock last night but I woke up very angry at my team.

ROFLMAO... 'Viagra' might not even had helped, but I'm still proud of the team. I get that you're angry DB, but we could have been 8-8 again or worse. Did the coaching staff fail? In a big way and I am sure Elway will deal with it - heck, he got on their ***es after the loss to Seattle in the pre-season, I wouldn't have wanted to hear what he said to the team after the loss last night! But we'll be back...it's best at times like this to remember that it's a game, a sport based pastime that we are emotionally invested in and that now and then a break is necessary.

[silkamilkamonico]

All comparative.

We sure as hell weren't soft when we were beating the piss out of New England and San Diego.

[DenBronx]

I'm definitely emotionally invested in this team. It's sort of like a family member.

In some ways I wish we wouldn't have even went. I could have dealt with a loss but in this manner it's pretty difficult. Sort of like a loved one passing away naturally vs them dying by torture.


Very hard to face the day today. I know many of you guys feel like that. It just sucks man....I wish we could have just made it a better game.

[Northman]

All comparative.

We sure as hell weren't soft when we were beating the piss out of New England and San Diego.

To be fair none of those teams are that physical as Seattle.

[DenBronx]

All comparative.

We sure as hell weren't soft when we were beating the piss out of New England and San Diego.


I think both of those teams would have did better against Seattle. Just basing that on how we played yesterday.

[GEM]

To be fair none of those teams are that physical as Seattle.

That was my thought as well. :lol:

[silkamilkamonico]

Well if seattle is the ideal structure for toughness you need to cut ties with a contract like manning immediately.

We're not going to be tougher than seattle we just dont have that culture in denver.

[Lancane]

Well if seattle is the ideal structure for toughness you need to cut ties with a contract like manning immediately.

We're not ever going to be tougher than seattle we just dont have that culture in denver.

No, we don't have the culture but we need to be better then what we were, Denver's defense was suppose to be improved under Fox and it's steadily gotten worse after an initial surge and Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil were the key players of that unit. Since drafting Von Miller they are yet to draft another superior defensive talent, Wolfe, Williams and Moore have been solid but not astounding, none of those three have shown elite ability and then take out Miller and you have a defense that looked like most of those during Shanahan's tenure. The Orange Crush was a famous defense, they were not an elite defense and allowed a lot of yards between the lines but in the end zone there were none better. The defense does not have to be elite but at least in the top ten. Our 23rd ranked unit played well in the first half of the Super Bowl. We may not have the culture for defensive superiority but for well rounded football on both sides of the ball? We have two Lombardi Trophies using that formula.

[Northman]

Well if seattle is the ideal structure for toughness you need to cut ties with a contract like manning immediately.

We're not going to be tougher than seattle we just dont have that culture in denver.


I dont think they are the only structure but do agree that the mentality in Denver is one more of finesse than physicality. Whether we can still achieve that with Manning i dont know but something needs to happen in that regard.

[LJD]

We need a nasty middle lb, another get after you type of d-end and a mean strong safety and I think our defense will be fine. Our o-line got the wood taken to them yesterday, I think clady helps next year, but not sure what to think about Orlando franklins performance. He can't hang with the speed rushers and that may need adjustment. Manny kind of set the tone for yesterday's game. Hope he uses this as motivation for next year. I think manny has some nasty in him that has shown this year.... I think a few tweets are needed, not a total remake.

[tomjonesrocks]

Yes.

[silkamilkamonico]

No, we don't have the culture but we need to be better then what we were, Denver's defense was suppose to be improved under Fox and it's steadily gotten worse after an initial surge and Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil were the key players of that unit. Since drafting Von Miller they are yet to draft another superior defensive talent, Wolfe, Williams and Moore have been solid but not astounding, none of those three have shown elite ability and then take out Miller and you have a defense that looked like most of those during Shanahan's tenure. The Orange Crush was a famous defense, they were not an elite defense and allowed a lot of yards between the lines but in the end zone there were none better. The defense does not have to be elite but at least in the top ten. Our 23rd ranked unit played well in the first half of the Super Bowl. We may not have the culture for defensive superiority but for well rounded football on both sides of the ball? We have two Lombardi Trophies using that formula.


I do agree with where you are going with defense, but I am having a hard time stomaching all this talk about our defense. We made it to the SuperBowl, and our injury riddled defense played very well for the first half. They did everything they possibly could given the circumstances to give the offense a chance to regain its composure and make a run at it.

After last night, I could not be more flat out disgusted with out offense. I think disgusted is a very harsh term in thoughts about a particular sports group, but good lord last night our offense was beyond pathetic.

[silkamilkamonico]

IMO, if we had a comparable offense to Seattle, we would have only lost the game last night something like 13-8, instead of 42-8. That's how f'n pathetic I feel our offense was.

[Northman]

IMO, if we had a comparable offense to Seattle, we would have only lost the game last night something like 13-8, instead of 42-8. That's how f'n pathetic I feel our offense was.

The offense was pretty pathetic and some of that is the lack of physicality coming from our WR's. DT is big but does not impose himself and often gets pushed around by DB's. Welker is tough but not really big enough to continually push defenders off of him. Decker has his own issues with the turf monster and getting separation. Last night we couldnt really use the running game because we just started falling behind so it was really just a matter of playing catch up but the Oline totally shit the bed.

[echobravo]

Our o line is decent on pass blocking but their run blocking is soft. To run the ball you need 5 nasty S.O.B.s up front, we barely have one.

[dogfish]

meh. . . not feelin' you guys on this one, it sounds like an excuse. . . i'd say we lost because they had more talent, not more toughness. . . it's not like they came out early and set the tone with lynch running all over us. . . i thought our lines played plenty physical down the stretch-- particularly given the absence of clady, vickerson and wolfe. . . franklin did get exposed in pass pro, but i don't think it was because he's not physical enough. . . IMO, we simply don't have the athletic ability in the back seven of our defense to match up with good teams-- again, particularly when we have injuries. . . and yes, the D did play hard in the first half, under terrible circumstances-- obviously, the turnovers weren't their fault. . . they still couldn't get off the field on thrid downs, though, and that really contributed to keeping our O out of rhythm. . . it's the same story it was in indy-- you can't win every single game solely on the strength of your passing attack, the other units have to be able to step up and carry you sometimes. . . this off-season, we need to fix our broken coverage units, and keep adding talent to the defense. . . i don't care about trash talk and swagger, just give me guys with speed and instincts. . . i never hear keuchly run his mouth, and he's as good as anyone in the game. . .

[Npba900]

How do you suppose they fix that?

It would help to implement some form of zone blocking scheme next year to help out Manning. Manning isn't going going to throw for 350-400 yards with 4-5 TD's in any future SB's. Manning still has a lot of fuel left in the tank. Peyton can play a a high level for the 2-3 years if he wants to; however, I'm thinking Manning is going to need a robust complementary rushing attack. The 97 SB victory I believe Elway threw for a mere 158 yards while the zone blocking scheme with TD rushed for 157 yards and several TD's.