Why We Lost

[camdisco24]

Obviously we played a horrid game of Football... BUT, looking back, we lost before the game even started. Here's my opinion why:

The Broncos all week played it cool like this was just another game... no one showed that much excitement for being in the biggest game of the year. I thought all week it was a little odd how lifeless the Broncos were.

The Seahawks on the other hand??? Those guys actually acted like it was a big freakin' deal to be on the biggest stage of the year. The came out pumped up and full of life. They came to own, the pumped themselves up, and delivered.

This is the biggest downfall of having a guy like Manning lead your team, he WILL NOT light a fire under you BEFORE the game. And in the grand scheme of things, that mean a heck of a lot.

[Simple Jaded]

This argument literally goes both ways, if they acted like the Seahawks and lost we'd be talking about them not being loose enough.

[MOtorboat]

We lost because of our stretching routine in warm ups.

[camdisco24]

This argument literally goes both ways, if they acted like the Seahawks and lost we'd be talking about them not being loose enough.

If it was a close game, yes... But close it wasnt.

[Simple Jaded]

If it was a close game, yes... But close it wasnt.

Makes no difference, you can make this point regardless of the point differential. Of course, because of this is the nature of losing no one can say if you're wrong or right. What Seattle did worked like a charm for them, that much we know.

[MasterShake]

I blame Joe Namath. His wayward coin flip threw off the timing of the entire night!

[Simple Jaded]

We lost because of our stretching routine in warm ups.

Yes but more specifically they lost because of that 30 seconds of warm ups that was caught on tv, this truly is a game of inches.

[Shazam!]

Too soft.

Franklin got schooled up front there.

Broncos need to get bigger and more physical up front on both sides.

Manning was reacting to pressure all night.

[camdisco24]

Makes no difference, you can make this point regardless of the point differential. Of course, because of this is the nature of losing no one can say if you're wrong or right. What Seattle did worked like a charm for them, that much we know.

What I'm saying is... Manning led teams have a tendency to come out flat in big games. In Indy, and now here. I see a trend, and I think tonight it was put on display to an extreme degree. Of course, there are tons of other factors, but preparation is HUGE in the NFL and I just dont think our Broncos were mentally in it.

[MasterShake]

Seriously though, the minute we didn't get to receive the kick after the half I knew it was bad. And the first play resulting in a safety? I had flashbacks to the crazy start to the Patriots Super Bowl against the Giants when Brady got a safety on the first drive. It just felt bad right from the start and got progressively worse. I just had to laugh and take a shot of rum with my dad when Harvin took the kickoff back after the half.

[Day1BroncoFan]

We lost because we got flat beat from the first play of the game to the last play of the game.

[camdisco24]

Seriously though, the minute we didn't get to receive the kick after the half I knew it was bad. And the first play resulting in a safety? I had flashbacks to the crazy start to the Patriots Super Bowl against the Giants when Brady got a safety on the first drive. It just felt bad right from the start and got progressively worse. I just had to laugh and take a shot of rum with my dad when Harvin took the kickoff back after the half.

I guess I should have titled this "Why We Lost: Because EVERYTHING"

[Broncolingus]

Too soft.


Broncos need to get bigger and more physical up front on both sides.



I'll get in that foxhole, brother...as I totally agree.

I'm sure they'll be a lot of other comments about other things, but that's exactly what's going to have to happen if Denver wants to hoist that Lombardi again.

Well said...

[atwater27]

We lost because the NFC is better than the AFC this year. Got outclassed with a monstrous defense.

[Jsteve01]

Too soft.

Franklin got schooled up front there.

Broncos need to get bigger and more physical up front on both sides.

Manning was reacting to pressure all night. Quick and simple fix. slide Franklin to LG, let Beadles walk and plug Clarke in at RT when Clady comes back. Franklin showed us again why he's not more than an average RT and he'll continue to get beaten by speed rushers ala AVril

[ForgettingBrandonMarshall]

Why we lost?

Eric Decker…see ya

[Jsteve01]

Why we lost?

Eric Decker…see ya Boom!! All the talk of him being a fringe number one can be put to bed now. Our elite WR showed up. Our o line and ED did not. I didn't get to watch the last three quarters of the game but that stat line for Decker was horrid

[ForgettingBrandonMarshall]

Boom!! All the talk of him being a fringe number one can be put to bed now. Our elite WR showed up. Our o line and ED did not. I didn't get to watch the last three quarters of the game but that stat line for Decker was horrid

He can make his money elsewhere. I'm not sure a pornstar exists with a bigger vag than Eric Decker.

[Simple Jaded]

Quick and simple fix. slide Franklin to LG, let Beadles walk and plug Clarke in at RT when Clady comes back. Franklin showed us again why he's not more than an average RT and he'll continue to get beaten by speed rushers ala AVril

While I'd love to see Franklin move to LG I think this game is a poor barometer for his play at RT, he just doesn't struggle with bullrush often and that's what made the difference in his performance tonight.

[wayninja]

We lost because the seahawks are more juiced than a Jack Lalanne infomercial.

[OrangeHoof]

I don't see anyone giving the correct answer, which is team speed. Particularly Seattle's back seven fly to the football and make big hits. That plus Harvin's speed and Denver had no answer.

The safety could have been overcomeable. Even after the two FGs, we're still down by just one touchdown which should be easy for the highest scoring team in NFL history to overcome, right?

But then you had the two interceptions which led to 14 points and that was pretty much the ballgame there. Manning started to move the team well but when they had the 4th-and-2 under two minutes to go in the first half, I understood the need to go for it but I also understood the season was over if they didn't convert and they didn't. Ballgame.

Congratulations to Seattle. They had a great run and delivered when it mattered. It's their first major sports championship since the Sonics of the late 70s so they should be justifiably happy.

Denver needed to take the lead and make the Seahawks one-dimensional on offense. Instead, Seattle did it to us.

But, whatever you do, don't blame this one on the defense. They weren't responsible for 9 of the 22 first half points and you could argue they weren't responsible for 16 of the 22 first half points.

You have to blame the offense and especially Manning and I'm sure he's a big enough man to take the responsibility. It was just one of those days where nothing went right. Part of that's to Seattle's credit and part of it was Manning having a bad game.

[Northman]

Cant disagree more with the OP. When Elway and company won their championships they didnt act like little kids, they went about their business as usual so i dont really see that as a reason for our lackluster performance. The real reason we lost is right in front of our face.

1) Turnovers. Everytime we have lost this year we have turned the ball over multiple times.

2) Offensive ineptitude. This team lives or dies by our offense, so while the defense was able to keep us in the game even at 15-0 the fact that our offense couldnt generate ANY points in the first half was a obvious sign of trouble.

3) leadership. Outside of Manning we have no leaders on this team, not like when we did back in 98' when their were multiple players who would get various players motivated not only in verbal communication but by their own play.

4) Special Teams: Just like in the preseason meeting we gave up a run back only this time it buried us to start the second half.


The exact way we lost to the Hawks in pre-season is the exact way we lost tonight. We didnt learn a damn thing from that game. Everything that we couldnt afford to do we did and they flat out embarrassed us a second time.

[atwater27]

Cant disagree more with the OP. When Elway and company won their championships they didnt act like little kids, they went about their business as usual so i dont really see that as a reason for our lackluster performance. The real reason we lost is right in front of our face.

1) Turnovers. Everytime we have lost this year we have turned the ball over multiple times.

2) Offensive ineptitude. This team lives or dies by our offense, so while the defense was able to keep us in the game even at 15-0 the fact that our offense couldnt generate ANY points in the first half was a obvious sign of trouble.

3) leadership. Outside of Manning we have no leaders on this team, not like when we did back in 98' when their were multiple players who would get various players motivated not only in verbal communication but by their own play.

4) Special Teams: Just like in the preseason meeting we gave up a run back only this time it buried us to start the second half.


The exact way we lost to the Hawks in pre-season is the exact way we lost tonight. We didnt learn a damn thing from that game. Everything that we couldnt afford to do we did and they flat out embarrassed us a second time.
North, sometimes good teams just meet an amazing team in the super bowl. You can't even break it down meaningfully any deeper than that.

[EastCoastBronco]

I'll throw my hat into the crowd here...

I think we lost because Manning lost his shit after the first play.
He walked up to the line, started to do his "Manning Stuff", the ball got snapped over his head.

After that I didn't see any more "Manning Stuff" at the line.
Not once.
Not one "Omaha" that I can recall.
He just plain lost it and I'm not sure why.

I realize it was loud but he didn't even look like he was taking the time to look over the D like he ALWAYS does.

Did no one else notice this?

[Mike]

North, sometimes good teams just meet an amazing team in the super bowl. You can't even break it down meaningfully any deeper than that.

Bullshit.

[7DnBrnc53]

I'll throw my hat into the crowd here...

I think we lost because Manning lost his shit after the first play.
He walked up to the line, started to do his "Manning Stuff", the ball got snapped over his head.

After that I didn't see any more "Manning Stuff" at the line.
Not once.
Not one "Omaha" that I can recall.
He just plain lost it and I'm not sure why.

I realize it was loud but he didn't even look like he was taking the time to look over the D like he ALWAYS does.

Did no one else notice this?

My dad even said that he didn't hear him saying Omaha. Good point.

[CoachChaz]

Other than the 1st INT...I dont think Manning played all that bad. JT, Welker and DT caught the ball well. Decker disappeared...and the OL sucked something fierce. If they can hold their block one extra second per play last night, it would have been a different ball game. Not to say we would have won...because god knows our secondary was disgusting.

[Jaws]

I just wish we could have seen what they could have done had they not fluffed that 1st snap.

[Mike]

Other than the 1st INT...I dont think Manning played all that bad. JT, Welker and DT caught the ball well. Decker disappeared...and the OL sucked something fierce. If they can hold their block one extra second per play last night, it would have been a different ball game. Not to say we would have won...because god knows our secondary was disgusting.

Manning played bad. The offensive line played worse. They gave him no time. The WRs couldn't beat the jam at the LOS. The OC didn't compensate for the o-line failure to give Manning time. The game plan was just atrocious. Just an all-around failure by the offense. ST we are used to sucking.

The defense, while not great, kept Denver in the game in the first half despite being put in bad situations repeatedly.

Denver just looked old, slow, and undisciplined.

[Robert3750]

It makes no sense to me to simply say that the team was physically overpowered. They looked psychologically unprepared for this game, and it frankly mystifies me why that was. The botched snap was just the first indication. The excuse was the crowd noise. So WHAT if it was loud? You're supposed to be PREPARED for that. They failed to execute in every phase of the game--offense, defense, special teams.

[Nomad]

Manning played bad. The offensive line played worse. They gave him no time. The WRs couldn't beat the jam at the LOS. The OC didn't compensate for the o-line failure to give Manning time. The game plan was just atrocious. Just an all-around failure by the offense. ST we are used to sucking.

The defense, while not great, kept Denver in the game in the first half despite being put in bad situations repeatedly.

Denver just looked old, slow, and undisciplined.

I agree, and Seattle would have easily beat any team they faced yesterday even the Patriots.

[Northman]

Denver just looked old, slow, and undisciplined.

This

[MasterShake]

The nice thing about a loss like this is that you get to feel a lot better about blowing up the team in some ways and rebuilding. Before yesterday I felt that we had a delicate balance with Decker, Moreno, etc. that needed to be kept together win or lose. But the WAY we lost tells me that maybe a shakeup is needed. I think Manning, Julius and Demaryius Thomas, and Montee Ball is a good nucleus to keep. After that I want to see our O-line shored up and to get faster and more aggressive on Defense. This off season is going to be very interesting. At this point I'm not even sure I still want John Fox around.

[BronColt]

Been a Manning fan since Indy. My expectations were already pretty low before the game. Peyton has let me down year after year. The only solace I have in 16 years is that Peyton beat up a sad wet Rex Grossman in a Super Bowl just about any other team could have won. Other than that, the Saints and the Seahawks showed the blueprint for beating Peyton and he will never be back to a Super Bowl again. Make him move and he is done. It's called an Achilles heel for a reason; it's his weakness and it was exposed to the whole world...AGAIN!

Never felt more embarrassed in my whole life. It was the saddest performance I have ever seen on a football field. Since there's nothing left to lose, how bout some conspiracy theories huh?! Didn't it look like Peyton knew he was gonna lose when the Confetti was coming down after the AFC Championship game? He had that losing look on his face the whole time. Shouldn't you smile after beating the Patriots the second time to get to a Super Bowl? The game was over before it began. Guess the refs felt bad bout Steelers Seahawks Super Bowl and gave the Hawks free reign to cheat the entire game. How many holding penalties DIDNT get called during that game? Plenty on the Broncos, NONE on the Seahawks!

I live in Vegas and have seen the corruption first hand in fixing sports. If you can only imagine the billions that were made off this game tonight, it's not a stretch to think how many millions were spent on paying off the refs to call this in Seattles favor. I don't give a flying f*** what anyone else thinks, this game was set up for the hawks to win plain and simple, there's no way you could play a game that was so obviously set up for the Vegas money makers. Money makes the world go round, and money made this Super Bowl go down the way it did. Anyone watch finals game 6 of the Heat last year? Tell me money doesn't make playoff games go one way or the other!

So disappointed in sports right now it's not even worth watching anymore!! The powers that be have planned it all out....ever been in the Denver Airport? It oozes from every corner. We watch our TVs hoping for competitive sports when all were seeing is games won or lost on whoever pays the most for said result. Any coincidence the owner of the hawks happens to be partnered with Bill Gates, one of the richest men on the planet? I guarantee his bank account is lighter after this Super Bowl and you all know exactly why!

Yeah, I'm blaming the refs, blaming Manning, blaming the coaches, blaming Decker, blaming the paid off whoevers that set this game up to be the biggest circus act I have ever witnessed on TV, I'll even blame Obama too. (Make sure the black quarterback wins) There are no coincidences in life, results are paid for by the highest bidder; welcome to the real world...should have taken the blue pill.

[Northman]

The nice thing about a loss like this is that you get to feel a lot better about blowing up the team in some ways and rebuilding. Before yesterday I felt that we had a delicate balance with Decker, Moreno, etc. that needed to be kept together win or lose. But the WAY we lost tells me that maybe a shakeup is needed. I think Manning, Julius and Demaryius Thomas, and Montee Ball is a good nucleus to keep. After that I want to see our O-line shored up and to get faster and more aggressive on Defense. This off season is going to be very interesting. At this point I'm not even sure I still want John Fox around.

I agree with a lot of this but im also kind of on board with Gem in another thread. Manning really cant be a guarantee at keeping either unless he decides to restructure. Even cutting loose some of those guys wont be enough im afraid to getting the type of players we need in here. If we are going to rebuild than lets rebuild from top to bottom. If Manning wants to continue to give it another go i think he is going to have to make some sacrifices himself. IMO

[Mike]

Been a Manning fan since Indy. My expectations were already pretty low before the game. Peyton has let me down year after year. The only solace I have in 16 years is that Peyton beat up a sad wet Rex Grossman in a Super Bowl just about any other team could have won. Other than that, the Saints and the Seahawks showed the blueprint for beating Peyton and he will never be back to a Super Bowl again. Make him move and he is done. It's called an Achilles heel for a reason; it's his weakness and it was exposed to the whole world...AGAIN!

Never felt more embarrassed in my whole life. It was the saddest performance I have ever seen on a football field. Since there's nothing left to lose, how bout some conspiracy theories huh?! Didn't it look like Peyton knew he was gonna lose when the Confetti was coming down after the AFC Championship game? He had that losing look on his face the whole time. Shouldn't you smile after beating the Patriots the second time to get to a Super Bowl? The game was over before it began. Guess the refs felt bad bout Steelers Seahawks Super Bowl and gave the Hawks free reign to cheat the entire game. How many holding penalties DIDNT get called during that game? Plenty on the Broncos, NONE on the Seahawks!

I live in Vegas and have seen the corruption first hand in fixing sports. If you can only imagine the billions that were made off this game tonight, it's not a stretch to think how many millions were spent on paying off the refs to call this in Seattles favor. I don't give a flying f*** what anyone else thinks, this game was set up for the hawks to win plain and simple, there's no way you could play a game that was so obviously set up for the Vegas money makers. Money makes the world go round, and money made this Super Bowl go down the way it did. Anyone watch finals game 6 of the Heat last year? Tell me money doesn't make playoff games go one way or the other!

So disappointed in sports right now it's not even worth watching anymore!! The powers that be have planned it all out....ever been in the Denver Airport? It oozes from every corner. We watch our TVs hoping for competitive sports when all were seeing is games won or lost on whoever pays the most for said result. Any coincidence the owner of the hawks happens to be partnered with Bill Gates, one of the richest men on the planet? I guarantee his bank account is lighter after this Super Bowl and you all know exactly why!

Yeah, I'm blaming the refs, blaming Manning, blaming the coaches, blaming Decker, blaming the paid off whoevers that set this game up to be the biggest circus act I have ever witnessed on TV, I'll even blame Obama too. (Make sure the black quarterback wins) There are no coincidences in life, results are paid for by the highest bidder; welcome to the real world...should have taken the blue pill.


:lol: Alrighty then.

[Nomad]

I agree with a lot of this but im also kind of on board with Gem in another thread. Manning really cant be a guarantee at keeping either unless he decides to restructure. Even cutting loose some of those guys wont be enough im afraid to getting the type of players we need in here. If we are going to rebuild than lets rebuild from top to bottom. If Manning wants to continue to give it another go i think he is going to have to make some sacrifices himself. IMO

I agree. I don't want to see Manning go, but I do think he needs to take a pay cut for the better of the team.

[BroncoNut]

I guess I should have titled this "Why We Lost: Because EVERYTHING"

Camdisco, you're doing fine keep it up. **** these ********. Every last one of them


I think we lost because we just weren't mentally prepared. seemed like there was just a lack of enthusiasm, vigor, and spirit.

[Northman]

I agree. I don't want to see Manning go, but I do think he needs to take a pay cut for the better of the team.

Yea, i know people laugh at that thought but a 3rd year QB just won the SB and while it wasnt really due to him he still gets the ring. Having a great QB is fine and gives you an edge in most cases but even when he is sucking up a lot of cap space when you need a LOT more help in other areas that can pose as a problem.

[Mike]

I agree with a lot of this but im also kind of on board with Gem in another thread. Manning really cant be a guarantee at keeping either unless he decides to restructure. Even cutting loose some of those guys wont be enough im afraid to getting the type of players we need in here. If we are going to rebuild than lets rebuild from top to bottom. If Manning wants to continue to give it another go i think he is going to have to make some sacrifices himself. IMO

Rebuilds take time. I expect Denver to push forward with what they have and slowly restock. Finished product will be post-Manning. It took SF and Seattle a few years to put it all together.

The biggest question for me is what to do about coaching. Does Elway look at yesterday and see Reeves in Fox? Does it alter the extension talks that they are supposed to look at this offseason? What do they do with the coordinators? I have very little confidence in any of them.

[MOtorboat]

Making your best players take paycuts is not always the answer.

Dear Peyton,

You had the greatest season anyone has ever had in the history of the game.

But now you're going to need to take a pay cut.

Sincerely,


Wait. Really?

[Nomad]

Making your best players take paycuts is not always the answer.

Dear Peyton,

You had the greatest season anyone has ever had in the history of the game.

But now you're going to need to take a pay cut.

Sincerely,


Wait. Really?

Whining about it won't fix the team. Many holes needing money to pay for them and Manning is a cash cow. Sometimes to keep the company afloat, you gotta take a pay cut regardless how well you did.

[Northman]

Rebuilds take time. I expect Denver to push forward with what they have and slowly restock. Finished product will be post-Manning. It took SF and Seattle a few years to put it all together.

The biggest question for me is what to do about coaching. Does Elway look at yesterday and see Reeves in Fox? Does it alter the extension talks that they are supposed to look at this offseason? What do they do with the coordinators? I have very little confidence in any of them.

Agree on all those accounts as well. It was one of main concerns with Fox when we got him but the problem is who is out there that would be a good fit? Do you take a chance and mess up what little chemistry we have between Fox and Manning and continue to push with that group or do you rebuild starting with dumping the coaching staff alone with Manning? Im just not sure you can replace Fox and some of the coaching staff and keep Manning where it might create chemistry issues. If your rebuilding from the bottom its a lot easier to get a younger guy in the coaching ranks and allow the younger players to grow with him.

[Northman]

Making your best players take paycuts is not always the answer.

Dear Peyton,

You had the greatest season anyone has ever had in the history of the game.

But now you're going to need to take a pay cut.

Sincerely,


Wait. Really?


I think it is when you clearly have other areas of concern and you got a couple of guys eating up a lot of that cap space. Its not like the team would be asking Manning to give up his first born. If the ultimate goal is to win a championship and you go out and get absolutely manhandled by a team in the biggest game of the year its going to take more than just letting guys like Deck, KnowMo, or Beadles walk. It just is and anyone who thinks it wont is severely kidding themselves.

[MasterShake]

Another thing I couldn't believe last night is how much of a factor the noise was. Seattle was very well represented and that kind of made me sick.

[Mike]

Agree on all those accounts as well. It was one of main concerns with Fox when we got him but the problem is who is out there that would be a good fit? Do you take a chance and mess up what little chemistry we have between Fox and Manning and continue to push with that group or do you rebuild starting with dumping the coaching staff alone with Manning? Im just not sure you can replace Fox and some of the coaching staff and keep Manning where it might create chemistry issues. If your rebuilding from the bottom its a lot easier to get a younger guy in the coaching ranks and allow the younger players to grow with him.

No, press forward with Fox. But don't give him an extension. I think you leave the offensive side alone this season, but look at defensive and ST changes.

[G_Money]

The good news is, if Harris and Von can come back healthy somewhere in the beginning of next year, and Clady is okay, we're getting a huge talent infusion from the team that took the field for the Super Bowl. Anybody think a healthy Clady can't stop some of that pass rush we saw? Or that Miller's QB pressure wasn't missed, or that Harris couldn't have made a difference in the secondary?

I don't expect Vickerson back, sadly. Dislocated hips on 340 pound men don't usually end well.

But we'll get some talent from that, and then need to figure out what else we need. I expect Woodyard to be gone, since we like Trevathan better and won't play Woody in the middle any more, and not being a starter demolishes his leadership capability. He wants a starting contract at Will, and will get it - just not from us, sadly. Which leaves us with zero defensive leaders.

Better get defensive leadership, and increase the talent and nastiness on this team. For our offense, the OL is PARAMOUNT, and for the last couple years we've made sure our backups are basically worthless (no offense Clark, you did better than anyone could have hoped). If Manning doesn't have a pocket, he gets messed up. He's as mobile as a paraplegic iguana, so you'd better plan better for that. We need a tougher WR than Decker who can fight through press coverage. Teaching Julius how to block wouldn't be amiss, but if you can't then dammit GET A BLOCKING TE who can catch to back him up. I thought we had those, but apparently not.

A game breaker wouldn't hurt, but we're not gonna get everything. Peyton can make average players into great ones with time. Get him the time, get some defensive fire and leadership, and see what happens. We lost because we were punched in the face and couldn't respond. As long as we're the ones punching, we play great. When someone hits us in the mouth or we come out flat, we start turning the ball over and get scared.

I hate scared football. I really hate it in the biggest game of the year. Things won't always go your way, but the team needs to not shit its collective pants when that happens. Whichever members of this team don't seem up to the task need to get replaced or demoted. There's still no AFC team that dominates us, but it looks like we'd have lost last year's game to the Niners too since they play defense the exact same way the Seahawks do. And we lost to the Ravens, who played physical ball.

You can't just be a finesse team in this league. Anybody who gets through Seattle and SF is gonna be similarly physical. Best join them since you can't beat them playing the way we play now. The 90s champs dominated the trench battle on offense, had a bunch of tough receivers and a killer RB, and played hard and aggressive on defense. That soft zone crap to end the game? Ridiculous. Never once pinned our ears back, always let them dictate to us. If you can't take chances being down by 30, when exactly can you take chances?

Maybe we'll take some in the offseason. Manning's time is running out and I think Oz is a waterboy, so before we sink back toward the average teams, we'd better try our damnedest to make something more than an AFC champ out of the Manning years.

~G

[NightTerror218]

I think manning played well, his TO were because of pressure. His first int I think JT could have slowed up for ball and adjust since he was starring at manning whole time. Second int Manning was hit and Ball stood there waiting for it to come to him.

DT repeatly was running side to side on his underneath routes and not going vertical and only getting 2-3 yards.

Manning went deep like twice. Seahawks had awesome game plan, rush 3-4 and sit on can crossing routes and man up.

Good game Seattle and congrats on first SB win.

[BigDaddyBronco]

The good news is, if Harris and Von can come back healthy somewhere in the beginning of next year, and Clady is okay, we're getting a huge talent infusion from the team that took the field for the Super Bowl. Anybody think a healthy Clady can't stop some of that pass rush we saw? Or that Miller's QB pressure wasn't missed, or that Harris couldn't have made a difference in the secondary?

I don't expect Vickerson back, sadly. Dislocated hips on 340 pound men don't usually end well.

But we'll get some talent from that, and then need to figure out what else we need. I expect Woodyard to be gone, since we like Trevathan better and won't play Woody in the middle any more, and not being a starter demolishes his leadership capability. He wants a starting contract at Will, and will get it - just not from us, sadly. Which leaves us with zero defensive leaders.

Better get defensive leadership, and increase the talent and nastiness on this team. For our offense, the OL is PARAMOUNT, and for the last couple years we've made sure our backups are basically worthless (no offense Clark, you did better than anyone could have hoped). If Manning doesn't have a pocket, he gets messed up. He's as mobile as a paraplegic iguana, so you'd better plan better for that. We need a tougher WR than Decker who can fight through press coverage. Teaching Julius how to block wouldn't be amiss, but if you can't then dammit GET A BLOCKING TE who can catch to back him up. I thought we had those, but apparently not.

A game breaker wouldn't hurt, but we're not gonna get everything. Peyton can make average players into great ones with time. Get him the time, get some defensive fire and leadership, and see what happens. We lost because we were punched in the face and couldn't respond. As long as we're the ones punching, we play great. When someone hits us in the mouth or we come out flat, we start turning the ball over and get scared.

I hate scared football. I really hate it in the biggest game of the year. Things won't always go your way, but the team needs to not shit its collective pants when that happens. Whichever members of this team don't seem up to the task need to get replaced or demoted. There's still no AFC team that dominates us, but it looks like we'd have lost last year's game to the Niners too since they play defense the exact same way the Seahawks do. And we lost to the Ravens, who played physical ball.

You can't just be a finesse team in this league. Anybody who gets through Seattle and SF is gonna be similarly physical. Best join them since you can't beat them playing the way we play now. The 90s champs dominated the trench battle on offense, had a bunch of tough receivers and a killer RB, and played hard and aggressive on defense. That soft zone crap to end the game? Ridiculous. Never once pinned our ears back, always let them dictate to us. If you can't take chances being down by 30, when exactly can you take chances?

Maybe we'll take some in the offseason. Manning's time is running out and I think Oz is a waterboy, so before we sink back toward the average teams, we'd better try our damnedest to make something more than an AFC champ out of the Manning years.

~G

Yea, having Clady back and another nasty guy at LG would totally solidify the OLine. I'm ok losing Decker for a guy who is ok with going over the middle (might need one after the shots Welker took last night). Moreno is gone, not worth the money and Ball is better. ****. The defense is a two year project. We need to draft or get a FA leader. A stub MLB or S would be awesome, but at a minimum we need more pass rush. You need layers of guys who can put pressure on the QB, that is what makes the 49ers and Seahawks so good to go with their good secondary. I swear if Ayers is on this team next year I'm going to lose it.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think manning played well, his TO were because of pressure. His first int I think JT could have slowed up for ball and adjust since he was starring at manning whole time. Second int Manning was hit and Ball stood there waiting for it to come to him.

DT repeatly was running side to side on his underneath routes and not going vertical and only getting 2-3 yards.

Manning went deep like twice. Seahawks had awesome game plan, rush 3-4 and sit on can crossing routes and man up.

Good game Seattle and congrats on first SB win.

2nd INT was Moreno.

[Northman]

No, press forward with Fox. But don't give him an extension. I think you leave the offensive side alone this season, but look at defensive and ST changes.

Yea, but with the limited cap space there has to be some adjustment on the offensive side of ball. We just dont have the room to simply start signing guys right now.

[Northman]

DT repeatly was running side to side on his underneath routes and not going vertical and only getting 2-3 yards.



OMG, that shit was driving me insane. I almost threw my beer at my friends TV. Then his costly fumble later on just infuriated me even more.

[Mike]

Yea, but with the limited cap space there has to be some adjustment on the offensive side of ball. We just dont have the room to simply start signing guys right now.

I was talking about coaches. I expect to see a bit of player changes on both sides of the ball.

[EastCoastBronco]

I'll say it again.
No Omaha. No #@$%# win.

[GEM]

I agree with a lot of this but im also kind of on board with Gem in another thread. Manning really cant be a guarantee at keeping either unless he decides to restructure. Even cutting loose some of those guys wont be enough im afraid to getting the type of players we need in here. If we are going to rebuild than lets rebuild from top to bottom. If Manning wants to continue to give it another go i think he is going to have to make some sacrifices himself. IMO

If the purpose of bringing Manning in here is/was to get Super Bowl, yesterday proved we don't have the team to do that. If Manning's point of being here is to get more rings, he needs to keep/add players that will help him do that. Logic being....he needs to give up some money for the team to have the parts needed to win. He can't win it on his own.

[GEM]

Camdisco, you're doing fine keep it up. **** these ********. Every last one of them


I think we lost because we just weren't mentally prepared. seemed like there was just a lack of enthusiasm, vigor, and spirit.

Nut, quit trolling threads, ya goofball.

[GEM]

Making your best players take paycuts is not always the answer.

Dear Peyton,

You had the greatest season anyone has ever had in the history of the game.

But now you're going to need to take a pay cut.

Sincerely,


Wait. Really?

Dear Mo,

Having the greatest year ever meant jack squat in the big game.

Sincerely,
Fans

[GEM]

I was upset with all the throws where the receiver had to plant, catch and turn around to run. Against that fast of a defense, it needs to be a catch in stride and go. Planting like that with that kind of speed, there is no chance for YAC. It was disappointing to watch them do it over and over and over and not figure it out until the 3rd quarter after it was too late.

[CoachChaz]

Dear Mo,

Having the greatest year ever meant jack squat in the big game.

Sincerely,
Fans


Unfortunately, the fans have little say in regards to a legally binding contract. Whether we like it or not...he's getting 20 mil next year.

[weazel]

beat in every aspect of the game... on the field and off. Not really much more to say than that.

[Nomad]

Unfortunately, the fans have little say in regards to a legally binding contract. Whether we like it or not...he's getting 20 mil next year.

Contracts can be changed as long as both parties agree to it. Whether Denver asks or Manning offers remains to be seen.

[Tned]

I agree with a lot of this but im also kind of on board with Gem in another thread. Manning really cant be a guarantee at keeping either unless he decides to restructure. Even cutting loose some of those guys wont be enough im afraid to getting the type of players we need in here. If we are going to rebuild than lets rebuild from top to bottom. If Manning wants to continue to give it another go i think he is going to have to make some sacrifices himself. IMO

On the one hand you keep using the term "rebuild" but on the other hand what you are describing is spending money on free agents to patch holes, which I guess would include QB once Manning is gone. That makes no sense. Is it a rebuild, or getting key free agents to win now? If win now, then who's your new QB? If rebuild, why would you be using Manning's money to bring in free agents?

Do you see the problem with this logic?

[GEM]

Unfortunately, the fans have little say in regards to a legally binding contract. Whether we like it or not...he's getting 20 mil next year.

He COULD restructure. Of course his contract says he's getting it, that's not the debate. It's whether he opens his eyes and sees that his salary hurts his chances of accomplishing his goals. If he realizes that, he COULD restructure. Just like we will most likely ask Champ, we could ask Manning to do the same. We all know what the contract says, that's not the point.

[Northman]

Unfortunately, the fans have little say in regards to a legally binding contract. Whether we like it or not...he's getting 20 mil next year.

Thanks Capt obvious.

[GEM]

On the one hand you keep using the term "rebuild" but on the other hand what you are describing is spending money on free agents to patch holes, which I guess would include QB once Manning is gone. That makes no sense. Is it a rebuild, or getting key free agents to win now? If win now, then who's your new QB? If rebuild, why would you be using Manning's money to bring in free agents?

Do you see the problem with this logic?

He would need to restructure just to keep what we have, much less bring in anyone new. It was proven last night that this team doesn't have enough to win against the likes of Seattle, so do we just stick with what we have, lose some key players, not get any new players and expect better results?

[BroncoNut]

Nut, quit trolling threads, ya goofball.

I call things as I see them GEm, not trolling, maybe pssing some people off, but not trolling I don't think. my brother CAm was getting some Grief from some jerkoffs among the membership and I thought he needed a kind word/support for his thread

[CoachChaz]

Thanks Capt obvious.

No problem, Major Dick

[Tned]

He would need to restructure just to keep what we have, much less bring in anyone new. It was proven last night that this team doesn't have enough to win against the likes of Seattle, so do we just stick with what we have, lose some key players, not get any new players and expect better results?

What's the alternative, Joe's mystical replace Manning with five amazing pro-bowlers that will take us to the promised land?

The Broncos were thoroughly defeated yesterday, but a few FA's isn't going to change that. Bring back Clady, beef up RT and Manning doesn't fight the pressure all game. Ball becoming the every down ball carrier gives us more power at RB, and the offense will be fine. Let's be honest, if the Broncos offense, with a little better O-line protection can't move the ball against Seattle, then NO offense in the history of football is going to. No couple free agents are going to make a difference there.

On defense, get some of the injured players back and we get a pass rush again. The biggest weakness on the team is pass rush and coverage, which goes hand in hand.

We ran into a team that was playing lights out. Wilson played better in this game than he had in the previous five or six games. The Broncos had one of those games where everything started to go wrong, and the mistakes started compounding.

[Tned]

On related news, per Vic.

RT @VicLombardi: DRC told me last night he wants to play next year. And he wants to play for the Broncos. I consider him their top FA priority.

[Northman]

On the one hand you keep using the term "rebuild" but on the other hand what you are describing is spending money on free agents to patch holes, which I guess would include QB once Manning is gone. That makes no sense. Is it a rebuild, or getting key free agents to win now? If win now, then who's your new QB? If rebuild, why would you be using Manning's money to bring in free agents?

Do you see the problem with this logic?


Actually it would be a combination of both bringing in FA's and drafting well and having money to sign said draft picks. When i speak of rebuilding it isnt about starting over ala McD era. There is some young talent here already, we also have a few vets who still have some gas left as well. Here is the two scenarios that i think could or should play out.

1) Manning restructures. What this will do is allow us to keep some of the offensive talent here that he is comfortable with while also adding some defensive help via FA and the draft. But this will also mean cutting some dead weight which i wont get into because i dont want this to turn into "you cant get rid of my favorite player" yada yada yada. But i there are some players i would certainly cut loose on both sides of the ball.

2) If Manning is not willing to restructure and it still hogties our cap than letting him walk is a possibility. Young QB's have gotten to the SB in recent years and won so the idea that you NEED to have a HOF QB at the helm is null. People have told me even just winning one SB is worth it even if you have a guy like Tebow at the helm. There is some truth to that because winning is winning.

So if Manning walks than we hand the reigns over to Oz as he has had time to sit and learn from one of the best. This doesnt mean that when he takes over we will be back in the SB next year but it could lead to another appearance in the next 2-3 years depending on how we draft and the FA's we sign. There is enough young talent here to do that but doing this we could concentrate far more on the defensive side and get that area built up better than it currently is. So to kind of ride Coach's coattails you take a bit of a hit in the offensive production but you become a more well rounded football team in the process.

None of these scenarios means you scrap the team entirely, but you do have to worry about how much cap space you have to work with and in any of these cases the defense really has to improve dramatically. As Mike pointed out we need to find some nasty players who are not afraid to be hit or go out and lay the smack down on opposing offenses.

[CoachChaz]

He COULD restructure. Of course his contract says he's getting it, that's not the debate. It's whether he opens his eyes and sees that his salary hurts his chances of accomplishing his goals. If he realizes that, he COULD restructure. Just like we will most likely ask Champ, we could ask Manning to do the same. We all know what the contract says, that's not the point.

Look at the logistics of it. Why do players restructure? It's easy to say it's to help the team, but there is more to it than that. Example...Brady. He restructured, but in doing so, he guaranteed himself more money over the long haul. A long haul that he expects to play in. In that event or any other player, it makes sense. But does Manning really expect to play into his 40's? So, let's say he restructures his current contract by extending it 2 years. Now we're just spreading the remaining 58 mil out over 5 years. That still pays him 11.6 mil a year...GUARANTEED. So if he is useless in the last few years of that deal...we still have to pay it. So then, we are saddled with that on the cap, even if he isnt playing.

The flip side to it...his money is already guaranteed. So other than putting the team in a position to win NOW and being screwed for a few years after...what advantage is it to Manning to restructure?

[GEM]

On related news, per Vic.

RT @VicLombardi: DRC told me last night he wants to play next year. And he wants to play for the Broncos. I consider him their top FA priority.

He left off the part at the end of he wants to play for the Broncos...as long as they are the highest bidder.

[GEM]

Look at the logistics of it. Why do players restructure? It's easy to say it's to help the team, but there is more to it than that. Example...Brady. He restructured, but in doing so, he guaranteed himself more money over the long haul. A long haul that he expects to play in. In that event or any other player, it makes sense. But does Manning really expect to play into his 40's? So, let's say he restructures his current contract by extending it 2 years. Now we're just spreading the remaining 58 mil out over 5 years. That still pays him 11.6 mil a year...GUARANTEED. So if he is useless in the last few years of that deal...we still have to pay it. So then, we are saddled with that on the cap, even if he isnt playing.

The flip side to it...his money is already guaranteed. So other than putting the team in a position to win NOW and being screwed for a few years after...what advantage is it to Manning to restructure?

That he might actually have some parts around him to win a ring? Right now, he won't so what is the use of playing?

[GEM]

What's the alternative, Joe's mystical replace Manning with five amazing pro-bowlers that will take us to the promised land?

The Broncos were thoroughly defeated yesterday, but a few FA's isn't going to change that. Bring back Clady, beef up RT and Manning doesn't fight the pressure all game. Ball becoming the every down ball carrier gives us more power at RB, and the offense will be fine. Let's be honest, if the Broncos offense, with a little better O-line protection can't move the ball against Seattle, then NO offense in the history of football is going to. No couple free agents are going to make a difference there.

On defense, get some of the injured players back and we get a pass rush again. The biggest weakness on the team is pass rush and coverage, which goes hand in hand.

We ran into a team that was playing lights out. Wilson played better in this game than he had in the previous five or six games. The Broncos had one of those games where everything started to go wrong, and the mistakes started compounding.

Would those hurt players helped enough to compete last night? Maybe? I don't know that. Counting on Ball becoming "that" player sounds nice, I just don't see that much improvement in 1 offseason. Which leads to the scouts...how did they pick him over Lacy? Lacy is a God damned beast...to which I don't think Ball will ever match. :shrugs:

While these other teams are finding gems in the draft, we're picking alright guys, nothing special.

[CoachChaz]

That he might actually have some parts around him to win a ring? Right now, he won't so what is the use of playing?

I'm sure he can think of 58 million reasons. The only way this works is if he agrees to a NEW contract that pays less money. Even if he wanted to do something that crazy...a year after breaking all kinds of records...the NFLPA would have a field day on his ass.

[Tned]

He left off the part at the end of he wants to play for the Broncos...as long as they are the highest bidder.

Yep, that's the way it works. It's the rare team that gets lucky enough to have the best CB in the game and SB winning QB making about $600k each.

[Tned]

I'm sure he can think of 58 million reasons. The only way this works is if he agrees to a NEW contract that pays less money. Even if he wanted to do something that crazy...a year after breaking all kinds of records...the NFLPA would have a field day on his ass.

Kind of like when A-Rod tried to take a pay reduction and the MLB PA went ballistic trying to block it.

[CoachChaz]

Kind of like when A-Rod tried to take a pay reduction and the MLB PA went ballistic trying to block it.

Exactly. Then when you look at the contract extensions that top QB's are getting today...it compounds it even more.

[weazel]

I think everyones looking for an excuse as to why they lost so bad... the simple truth is the NFL is a man's game and yesterdays game looked like men playing boys. A physical, athletic team overpowered a team that didn't want to get dirty and got their balls handed to them.

[Tned]

Would those hurt players helped enough to compete last night? Maybe? I don't know that. Counting on Ball becoming "that" player sounds nice, I just don't see that much improvement in 1 offseason. Which leads to the scouts...how did they pick him over Lacy? Lacy is a God damned beast...to which I don't think Ball will ever match. :shrugs:

While these other teams are finding gems in the draft, we're picking alright guys, nothing special.

Lacy was an injury concern. End of story. We've been on the other end of that plenty of times, rolling the dice on an injured player that didn't pan out. If it wasn't for the injury, Lacy would never have gotten past the Broncos, if he had made it that far. How many times have we criticized the Broncos for taking a chance on an injury guy who didn't come back from the injury?

Yea, getting those injured guys back probably would make that much of a difference, along with some key pickups (need to improve pass rush and pass coverage).

[GEM]

Yep, that's the way it works. It's the rare team that gets lucky enough to have the best CB in the game and SB winning QB making about $600k each.

Who is asking them to make that? Really? One is making $20 mil for a year and one is making $9 mil. Come on now...no one is asking that and it's ridiculous that you went down to such a low number as if that's the kind of number I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

[GEM]

Lacy was an injury concern. End of story. We've been on the other end of that plenty of times, rolling the dice on an injured player that didn't pan out. If it wasn't for the injury, Lacy would never have gotten past the Broncos, if he had made it that far. How many times have we criticized the Broncos for taking a chance on an injury guy who didn't come back from the injury?

Yea, getting those injured guys back probably would make that much of a difference, along with some key pickups (need to improve pass rush and pass coverage).

How do we pick up anyone new? We have no money.

[Tned]

I just posed a question to Andrew Mason, who does not root for the Broncos (he covers them, but it isn't his team). I said that many of us founds were ready to step off the ledge -- jettison Manning and rebuild, and asked if he had any thoughts on why we should step off that ledge. His response (emphasis mine):

RT @MaseDenver: @BroncosForums Yes. This team went 15-4 with 96 man-games lost to injuries & suspension by starters.

[weazel]

Who is asking them to make that? Really? One is making $20 mil for a year and one is making $9 mil. Come on now...no one is asking that and it's ridiculous that you went down to such a low number as if that's the kind of number I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

GEM I think he was just commenting on Seattle's roster

[GEM]

GEM I think he was just commenting on Seattle's roster

I get that, but I'm not and wouldn't demean Manning to $600K a year. I mean seriously. Knock Champ down to about $4 mil, Manning to about $12-13 mil.

[GEM]

I just posed a question to Andrew Mason, who does not root for the Broncos (he covers them, but it isn't his team). I said that many of us founds were ready to step off the ledge -- jettison Manning and rebuild, and asked if he had any thoughts on why we should step off that ledge. His response (emphasis mine):

RT @MaseDenver: @BroncosForums Yes. This team went 15-4 with 96 man-games lost to injuries & suspension by starters.

Without cap relief, we're already going to be in a rebuild. We will be losing quite a bit of the players on the team as is. Who replaces them?

[weazel]

I get that, but I'm not and wouldn't demean Manning to $600K a year. I mean seriously. Knock Champ down to about $4 mil, Manning to about $12-13 mil.

Champ isn't worth 4 million a year anymore. He simply doesn't have it anymore, he lost a lot the last couple years. They need to move on and free up the cap hit.

[Tned]

How do we pick up anyone new? We have no money.

We have more money available than most years in the last decade. We are carrying over $6.6 mil from last year. The cap is increasing by over $3 million. $5 million Doom counted this year is gone, along with $4 mil or so from other players. Lammey did a couple articles on this earlier in the month. The Broncos should be something like $33 million under the cap heading into free agency. Even after signing draft class, should have $25+ million to spend in free agency and he expects the Broncos to be one of the more active teams.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1940633-5-biggest-splashes-the-denver-broncos-could-realistically-make-in-free-agency

Again, Manning's salary wasn't a problem in '13 (we had $6.6 million in cap space we didn't spend) and it won't be in '14. He brings FAR, FAR more to the table than any other use of that $20 million.

[GEM]

We have more money available than most years in the last decade. We are carrying over $6.6 mil from last year. The cap is increasing by over $3 million. $5 million Doom counted this year is gone, along with $4 mil or so from other players. Lammey did a couple articles on this earlier in the month. The Broncos should be something like $33 million under the cap heading into free agency. Even after signing draft class, should have $25+ million to spend in free agency and he expects the Broncos to be one of the more active teams.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1940633-5-biggest-splashes-the-denver-broncos-could-realistically-make-in-free-agency

Again, Manning's salary wasn't a problem in '13 (we had $6.6 million in cap space we didn't spend) and it won't be in '14. He brings FAR, FAR more to the table than any other use of that $20 million.

I certainly hope it works out like that. But with all the talk of all we are going to lose, I just don't see it that rosy.

Given, I am in a deep funk today. I just don't see a rosy future ahead. This was the year that we had to do and to fail so miserably, I am completely deflated on all things Broncos right now. I told my dad last night that I was going to probably need to take a break here, it would probably do me some good, I just don't think I could really take myself out of the loop, so I'm not going to make that announcement. :laugh: I'm leaving...and still be here cause I have a big mouth and can't keep my opinions to myself. :laugh:

[Northman]

I just don't see it that rosy.



Its really not that rosy. lol

[jlarsiii]

There is always over-reaction this close following a loss like yesterday's. We got beat in all phases and it wasn't that close. The team didn't respond exactly like a boxer who fails to get up from the mat. It is how much fight your dog has, and our dog whimpered a lot last night.

Still, it isn't as bad as it appears. Everything went wrong for us and just about everything went right for Seattle. Congrats to them for a well played game. The way I look at it is this: does Seattle even make the superbowl with the losses we sustained just on defense this year. Take away a couple d-linemen, Sherman, Thomas, and Chancellor and their defense is in shambles like ours was. In this persepective our team actually did well to even make the super bowl. However, they couldn't holdup without some relief from the offense and by the time the shock wore off the game was essentially over.

I don't know how next year will turn out because we will start the season without some of our defensive stars, but I am hoping that they grow from this and come back hungrier than ever. Will have to be patient and continue to update the depth and talent over the next few years...

Knee jerk reactions like asking Manning to restructure aren't going to make last night sting less. It isn't the answer. Continue to build and hope our impact players stay healthy next year.

[CoachChaz]

I certainly hope it works out like that. But with all the talk of all we are going to lose, I just don't see it that rosy.

Given, I am in a deep funk today. I just don't see a rosy future ahead. This was the year that we had to do and to fail so miserably, I am completely deflated on all things Broncos right now. I told my dad last night that I was going to probably need to take a break here, it would probably do me some good, I just don't think I could really take myself out of the loop, so I'm not going to make that announcement. :laugh: I'm leaving...and still be here cause I have a big mouth and can't keep my opinions to myself. :laugh:

I figured the number to be closer to 20 mil, but a lot depends on a few guys that may or may not be back. So, even assuming we have 25 mil...do we really give 9-10 of that to Decker? Then hope we can fill the other multiple voids with 15? 25 seems like a lot until you start spending it on quality. Personally, I think the best thing to do since we have Manning is to look at some cheaper vets and draft for the future. I could see picking up guys like Jared Allen and Karlos Dansby and drastically improving the defense, while not spending too much. They would be short term answers to go with the short term QB. Use some of Champ's money on DRC and then you really just need to find another corner and a safety.

At the end of the day, there are a million ways we could go. It really just depends on what Elway and Co. think is best. They got us this far, so I'll trust them tomorrow

[weazel]

I figured the number to be closer to 20 mil, but a lot depends on a few guys that may or may not be back. So, even assuming we have 25 mil...do we really give 9-10 of that to Decker? Then hope we can fill the other multiple voids with 15? 25 seems like a lot until you start spending it on quality. Personally, I think the best thing to do since we have Manning is to look at some cheaper vets and draft for the future. I could see picking up guys like Jared Allen and Karlos Dansby and drastically improving the defense, while not spending too much. They would be short term answers to go with the short term QB. Use some of Champ's money on DRC and then you really just need to find another corner and a safety.

At the end of the day, there are a million ways we could go. It really just depends on what Elway and Co. think is best. They got us this far, so I'll trust them tomorrow

Theres more important holes to fill than WR2... Let some other team overpay for Decker. I'd be happy with Caldwell taking his spot, actually.

[CoachChaz]

Theres more important holes to fill than WR2... Let some other team overpay for Decker. I'd be happy with Caldwell taking his spot, actually.

Like I said...if the offense scores 7 less per game and the defense is retooled to give up 8 less per game...that's a win.

[TimHippo]

There is always over-reaction this close following a loss like yesterday's. We got beat in all phases and it wasn't that close. The team didn't respond exactly like a boxer who fails to get up from the mat. It is how much fight your dog has, and our dog whimpered a lot last night.

Still, it isn't as bad as it appears. Everything went wrong for us and just about everything went right for Seattle. Congrats to them for a well played game. The way I look at it is this: does Seattle even make the superbowl with the losses we sustained just on defense this year. Take away a couple d-linemen, Sherman, Thomas, and Chancellor and their defense is in shambles like ours was. In this persepective our team actually did well to even make the super bowl. However, they couldn't holdup without some relief from the offense and by the time the shock wore off the game was essentially over.
.

Seattle lost their 6 foot 4 all pro cornerback Brandon Browner due to suspension and their #1 receiver 6-4 Sidney Rice for the season as well. So you can't really use the injury excuse.

[slim]

Seattle lost their 6 foot 4 all pro cornerback Brandon Browner due to suspension and their #1 receiver 6-4 Sidney Rice for the season as well. So you can't really use the injury excuse.

Half of our starting defense is on IR. I'm not into making excuses, but c'mon...we clearly had more to overcome.

[Northman]

Our defense wasnt nearly as good as theirs even with our starters. It wouldnt of been that much of a difference and people are kidding themselves if they think it would of mattered last night.

[slim]

Our defense wasnt nearly as good as theirs even with our starters. It wouldnt of been that much of a difference and people are kidding themselves if they think it would of mattered last night.

I agree, it wouldn't have changed the game much....but I don't want to hear how Seattle overcame losing two marginal players. It's not the same thing.

[Nomad]

So Seattle stays healthier than Denver, what/where is the problem? I know luck plays a factor, but is Denver soft on conditioning?:shrugs:

[slim]

So Seattle stays healthier than Denver, what/where is the problem? I know luck plays a factor, but is Denver soft on conditioning?:shrugs:

Just luck.

[Northman]

So Seattle stays healthier than Denver, what/where is the problem? I know luck plays a factor, but is Denver soft on conditioning?:shrugs:

We are a finesse team no getting around that, thats just how we are built. But i was amazed at how well the play calling and aggressiveness of the Hawk defense played.

On our quick screens those guys were all over us in a heartbeat. On one particular play i was BLOWN away by the play of Chancellor. It was the pass that was intended for Welker and he and JT were crossing routes and Chance had JT but then cut him loose to go with Welk and when Welker tried to bring in the pass Chance leveled him legally to break it up. The bad news is on the same play it left JT WIDE open on the middle right which would of been a good 20-30 yd gain. They knew what we were doing before we even did.

[buzzinra]

I noticed all season Payton is still recovering from the neck surgery he's still good and accurate from 10-25 yards other than that u can tell he new he couldn't make the strong 30 yards or better pass. Seattle game plan was simple dbl.the tight end Sherman man up solo and linebackers drop back 5-7 yards.

[Mike]

I noticed all season Payton is still recovering from the neck surgery he's still good and accurate from 10-25 yards other than that u can tell he new he couldn't make the strong 30 yards or better pass. Seattle game plan was simple dbl.the tight end Sherman man up solo and linebackers drop back 5-7 yards.

In his defense, he didn't have time to throw anything deeper.

[jhildebrand]

I don't buy the OP. Pete Carol is the antithesis of the typical nfl head coach as laid back as he is.

This team got their ass handed to them. It is simple as that. I can tolerate this loss a lot more than the Baltimore loss for so many reasons.

At the end of the day this team needs some major work on defense work that can be made over in one off season. So much focus went and goes into the offense. The undefeated Pats showed the world that a great O is easily stopped by a great D. Even then, our D wasn't "the reason" for the loss last night. When it mattered, they only allowed 13 points.

It was just one of those days where everything from the coin toss went wrong. I am not sure what can be done to change that but I do wish our team would have actually showed up and played better.

[jhildebrand]

One specific fault I had with this game and a lot of our games as of late is Del Rio and the DB coach had the db's so far off the line. I thought Slowick was back. :mad: It was clear very early on last night that Seattle was playing press and manhandling our guys at the line and beyond. As a coach you have to get your guys to respond. On O that means having the WR's fight back and on D you play the same way. Their receivers got a clean release at the line all game. That is too much respect for a guy like Russell Wilson! The refs weren't calling it at all and were letting the players play. Denver just chose not to play 'that game.' I guess maybe that lends some credence to the finesse argument.

[Nomad]

We are a finesse team no getting around that, thats just how we are built. But i was amazed at how well the play calling and aggressiveness of the Hawk defense played.

On our quick screens those guys were all over us in a heartbeat. On one particular play i was BLOWN away by the play of Chancellor. It was the pass that was intended for Welker and he and JT were crossing routes and Chance had JT but then cut him loose to go with Welk and when Welker tried to bring in the pass Chance leveled him legally to break it up. The bad news is on the same play it left JT WIDE open on the middle right which would of been a good 20-30 yd gain. They knew what we were doing before we even did.


I get that. I keep reading how Seattle had the advantage due to hardly any injuries to key players, or Denver the disadvantage due to so many injuries to key players. What did Seattle do to prevent that? As I said I know luck, but as physical as Seattle is and hardly any injuries.

[Lancane]

Poor coaching, the end, period. :coffee:

[Northman]

I get that. I keep reading how Seattle had the advantage due to hardly any injuries to key players, or Denver the disadvantage due to so many injuries to key players. What did Seattle do to prevent that? As I said I know luck, but as physical as Seattle is and hardly any injuries.

Part of it or i should say most of it is due to their youth. A lot of young players who dont take as near as much time to heal as some of our older guys. Conditioning can be a part of it as well and it seems to have been something that has plagued us for years now but whether or not we have been using the same guys i dont know. Luck does play a part but as physical as their division is i think youth is just the biggest part of it which is why they looked so much faster and aggressive as we did.

[tomjonesrocks]

Poor coaching, the end, period. :coffee:

The gameplan was absolute dogshit. Not the only reason, but Fox appears to not be a SB coach.

Del Rio's gone anyway, so I guess I won't worry about him.

[jhildebrand]

Poor coaching, the end, period. :coffee:

I was just working on a new thread title 'Should the Broncos take a look at Gase as HC.' I scrapped it and maybe I shouldn't have. I know wasn't keen on Fox's hiring. I know I had a long post showing his run on 1st offense/predictability. I know some of that has gone, especially with Gase as OC. However, it seems to me the bigger the game the more tight the team gets with Fox at the helm. They got tight and conservative against the Chargers in the PO game. Too tight. It wasn't until they opened up the playbook again that they got back on track and put the game away. When I think of Fox I just think of Reeves 2.0.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know there is no reason nor excuse to see an outing from a team built like ours and like we saw last night. None. Unacceptable.

[jhildebrand]

Del Rio's gone anyway, so I guess I won't worry about him.

He is? :confused: Did I miss something? :confused:

[jhildebrand]

To expand on my dislike of Fox:

He treated the game very early on as 4 down territory only to run a draw and later punted. Also, all of the half time I kept telling my company that we would be stupid to try anything like an onside or anything other than kicking it deep. We kick it, it bounced high, Harvin had to wait for the high kick and then wait for the bounce, and our coverage still couldn't get him on the ground. The better play is kick it deep and hope with the rest your D just received at half time can either make a play or get a 3,4, or 5 and out. Do that and score and you are almost back in it.

Some of the calls just blatantly contradicted other calls and gave the appearance of them being lost.

[Tned]

"@MileHighReport: #Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey says he will return for another season in Denver:... http://t.co/gFtJot4l7W"

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[Northman]

Meh.......

[Lancane]

"@MileHighReport: #Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey says he will return for another season in Denver:... http://t.co/gFtJot4l7W"

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

So he's going to force the Broncos' to cut ties with him for cap space...he's a nickel corner at best making way too much money for such a role.

[Lancane]

To expand on my dislike of Fox:

He treated the game very early on as 4 down territory only to run a draw and later punted. Also, all of the half time I kept telling my company that we would be stupid to try anything like an onside or anything other than kicking it deep. We kick it, it bounced high, Harvin had to wait for the high kick and then wait for the bounce, and our coverage still couldn't get him on the ground. The better play is kick it deep and hope with the rest your D just received at half time can either make a play or get a 3,4, or 5 and out. Do that and score and you are almost back in it.

Some of the calls just blatantly contradicted other calls and gave the appearance of them being lost.

To be honest, I got a bad feeling before the Super Bowl when I was watching the coach interviews and Carroll was excited and enthusiastic, he was hungry to win. Fox was subdued and next to his wife and focused on his thankfulness to coach and to play in the game, it was a man thankful to be alive but no fire or passion to win. When you look around the league, Carroll, the Harbaughs and so forth, you can see the difference. I don't think Gase is the answer, nor is Kubiak. I think Denver has to find someone looking to make a statement, who wants to win and put it all on the line. That's why the Texans hired from the collegiate ranks as did the Eagles, the old school coaches are not enough anymore, even Belichick struggles to coach against them.

[7DnBrnc53]

To be honest, I got a bad feeling before the Super Bowl when I was watching the coach interviews and Carroll was excited and enthusiastic, he was hungry to win. Fox was subdued and next to his wife and focused on his thankfulness to coach and to play in the game, it was a man thankful to be alive but no fire or passion to win. When you look around the league, Carroll, the Harbaughs and so forth, you can see the difference. I don't think Gase is the answer, nor is Kubiak. I think Denver has to find someone looking to make a statement, who wants to win and put it all on the line. That's why the Texans hired from the collegiate ranks as did the Eagles, the old school coaches are not enough anymore, even Belichick struggles to coach against them.

Carroll is actually a little older than Belichick and Fox. I don't really buy this argument.

[Northman]

To be honest, I got a bad feeling before the Super Bowl when I was watching the coach interviews and Carroll was excited and enthusiastic, he was hungry to win. Fox was subdued and next to his wife and focused on his thankfulness to coach and to play in the game, it was a man thankful to be alive but no fire or passion to win. When you look around the league, Carroll, the Harbaughs and so forth, you can see the difference. I don't think Gase is the answer, nor is Kubiak. I think Denver has to find someone looking to make a statement, who wants to win and put it all on the line. That's why the Texans hired from the collegiate ranks as did the Eagles, the old school coaches are not enough anymore, even Belichick struggles to coach against them.

Agreed.

I think you need to find someone like the Harbaughs or Carroll but not too over the top like Schwartz or McDaniels. I think we do need a younger more enthusiastic kind of coach but not one that is more childish than his players.

[silkamilkamonico]

Poor coaching, the end, period. :coffee:

I was just working on a new thread title 'Should the Broncos take a look at Gase as HC.' I scrapped it and maybe I shouldn't have. I know wasn't keen on Fox's hiring. I know I had a long post showing his run on 1st offense/predictability. I know some of that has gone, especially with Gase as OC. However, it seems to me the bigger the game the more tight the team gets with Fox at the helm. They got tight and conservative against the Chargers in the PO game. Too tight. It wasn't until they opened up the playbook again that they got back on track and put the game away. When I think of Fox I just think of Reeves 2.0.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know there is no reason nor excuse to see an outing from a team built like ours and like we saw last night. None. Unacceptable.

Gase? No thanks. Imo last night showed he isnt even a great oc imo. Couldn't make any adjustments whatsoever.

[Northman]

Carroll is actually a little older than Belichick and Fox. I don't really buy this argument.

He might be older i didnt realize that but in no way does he act like it and that seems to be a big difference.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan (2)]

We lost because Seattle was a better team than us. And it looks like we underestimated them. I'm not sure what happened in film study and preparation but the Broncos looked like a deer in the headlights at the speed of the Seahawks D. The first three and out with the slants and crossers were proof enough of that to me, that was never going to work against a D that played at the speed they do. Seattle wanted it more, they were more prepared and we could never match their intensity.

[silkamilkamonico]

Carroll is the second oldest coach in the nfl behind fassel.

I dont hate fox, but my perception of him is the locker room scenes of him thanking his players after every win for saving his job for another week. Thats exactly what i dont want from the captian of the ship.

[Lancane]

Carroll is actually a little older than Belichick and Fox. I don't really buy this argument.

Carroll was reinvented from his time at the collegiate ranks where he was coaching against the likes of Harbaugh and Kelly, so I would say that your disagreement is irrelevant.

[Tned]

Honestly, if I had just missed the whole season and just showed up today, I would think the Broncos had just finished a 4-12 season or something like that.

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[Northman]

Honestly, if I had just missed the whole season and just showed up today, I would think the Broncos had just finished a 4-12 season or something like that.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

Well, they certainly played like a 4-12 team yesterday. No getting around that. lmao

[Lancane]

Honestly, if I had just missed the whole season and just showed up today, I would think the Broncos had just finished a 4-12 season or something like that.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

We are subdued by the piss poor performance and piss poor coaching job. Other then that we're happier then crack addicts at a Seattle Coffeehouse.

[jlarsiii]

Seattle lost their 6 foot 4 all pro cornerback Brandon Browner due to suspension and their #1 receiver 6-4 Sidney Rice for the season as well. So you can't really use the injury excuse.

I wasn't trying to make excuses. Nowhere in my post did I say that was the reason that we lost.

I was simply pointing out that the steps needed to improve the defense are not as great as they would appear from last night. If our IR players return and can play at or near the same level then some improvement in a few other areas will show significant benefit overall.

Given the lack of quality depth, and being behind the 8 ball right from the word go, I thought our defense did okay in retrospect. It wouldn't have been good enough to win the AFC championship, but it was a damn bit better then the offense did last night. Would we have won the game if we had all our D starters healthy and ready to rock? No. Would it have been a blowout though? No. Don't tell me that Harris and Wolfe would have done anywhere near as poorly as Carter and Ayers for example.

I don't think our team is as bad as they looked last night. Nor do I think Seattle is as good as they looked either. It would not shock me one bit if neither team makes it back next year...

[silkamilkamonico]

Manning had no sense of pocket last night because of the constant collapsing pocket by Seattle. Some of that is his fault. Some of that is Gases's fault for not running more power sets and putting more blockers in. Speaking of Manning looking like Cutler and his pick 6's, Gase looked like Mike Martz with his constant open sets.

I still think if you take Manning out of the picture and put another above average QB, you are looking at nothing more than an above average coordinator with Gase. How many plays does Gase call that Manning actually runs?

I simply do not understand all the hype with Gase. I give him some credit for running the best offense in the history of the NFL, with arguably one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL, with arguably the best unit of WR's in the history of the NFL.

[BroncoJoe]

Seahawks showed up like they had something to prove. And did.

We acted like we've already proved ourselves, and played like we hadn't proven anything. One team was expecting a win, the other wanted to fight for it.

[echobravo]

Denver definitely forgot to strap on the jock straps and prove their hype on the field where it really matters. Felt like I was watching the Jim Kelly Bills on offense.

[jhildebrand]

Manning had no sense of pocket last night because of the constant collapsing pocket by Seattle. Some of that is his fault. Some of that is Gases's fault for not running more power sets and putting more blockers in. Speaking of Manning looking like Cutler and his pick 6's, Gase looked like Mike Martz with his constant open sets.

I still think if you take Manning out of the picture and put another above average QB, you are looking at nothing more than an above average coordinator with Gase. How many plays does Gase call that Manning actually runs?

I simply do not understand all the hype with Gase. I give him some credit for running the best offense in the history of the NFL, with arguably one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL, with arguably the best unit of WR's in the history of the NFL.


You're right that there should be some fault placed with the coaching staff for not making changes and taking too long to make the ones they did. Franklin got his lunch served to him all day long. They never helped him. Most probably didn't notice that Vallos was at center late in the game. That said, Gase with the exact same team McCoy had but far inferior due to injuries and put up record numbers. I am not in love with Gase but this team needs an injection of youth, ingenuity, and ultimately some physical nastiness! If that isn't Gase than they should at least explore. If it can't be done bring Fox back.

[jhildebrand]

Seahawks showed up like they had something to prove. And did.

We acted like we've already proved ourselves, and played like we hadn't proven anything. One team was expecting a win, the other wanted to fight for it.

That is exactly how our other 3 losses looked! They looked like a team that expected the W for walking into the building. A team that figured it would be handed to them and Manning would take care of it all.

[Npba900]

What I'm saying is... Manning led teams have a tendency to come out flat in big games. In Indy, and now here. I see a trend, and I think tonight it was put on display to an extreme degree. Of course, there are tons of other factors, but preparation is HUGE in the NFL and I just dont think our Broncos were mentally in it.

Had Manning and the Broncos incorporated a "Zone Blocking" scheme at the beginning of the season to compliment Manning's passing ability the SB outcome would have been different. At this stage of his career Manning does not have the spry youthfulness/arm strength to win SB's with his arm and playing from an empty backfield.

A 97-98 type Bronco running attack would have made the Sea Hawks defense play honest.

Elway would not have won two consecutive SB's with throwing the ball 35-40 times a game and without a "Zone Blocking" running attack with a lead FB blocking for the RB.

Now of course the 2013 Broncos had they implemented a zone blocking scheme would needed a RB as comparable as possible to a Terrell Davis type RB, which would been a high task if not impossible to find a replacement for the greatest zone blocking RB of all time.

Manning would have benefited also from having two RB's in the backfield for extra blocking as well.

Point is, Manning will not win a SB without having a robust consistent rushing attack......plain and simple.

[spikerman]

Well, they certainly played like a 4-12 team yesterday. No getting around that. lmao

Last night a 4-12 team would have kicked their ass.

[BroncoNut]

Seahawks showed up like they had something to prove. And did.

We acted like we've already proved ourselves, and played like we hadn't proven anything. One team was expecting a win, the other wanted to fight for it.

we expected to play our game and Seattle had other plans

[BroncoNut]

i'd like to hear Rex's input on the game for some queer reason

[Tned]

I'm not listening, so only have this one quote, but apparently Schlereth is putting the blame on Manning and his wanting to run the offense from the line.

"@SedanoAndStink: "Peyton needs a head coach that can stand up to him and say we're not going to run everything from the line of scrimmage"- @markschlereth"

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[DenBronx]

Uhhhh yeah the pain from this loss still sucks.

I don't think I'll ever get over this one. We sucked ass in a historical game.


No way of getting around the fact that our guys gave up and looked scared. Our WRs looked really shaken, Manning looked tight as hell and our defense looked like a bunch of noodles trying to stand up straight. Seattles defense on the other hand looked like someone kicking over an ant hill, they were freakin on us the whole time man!

[MOtorboat]

I'm not listening, so only have this one quote, but apparently Schlereth is putting the blame on Manning and his wanting to run the offense from the line.

"@SedanoAndStink: "Peyton needs a head coach that can stand up to him and say we're not going to run everything from the line of scrimmage"- @markschlereth"

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It's a shame that that doesn't work for Manning.
2013:
5,477 passing yards, NFL Record
55 touchdowns, NFL Record
2013 NFL AP MVP
2013 NFL PFWA MVP
2013 NFL Bert Bell Award (Player of the Year)
2013 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year
2013 First-Team All Pro

Career:
6,4964 passing yards, second all-time
491 touchdowns, second all-time
97.2 passer rating, second-highest all time
167 wins, second all time
51 fourth-quarter comebacks, most all time.

But, hey, he lost a game. So, you know, if he could just get an offensive coordinator... :rolleyes:

[DenBronx]

You know what else sucks.


Our losses are just miserable. If you add up the point differances in just our SB loses it is so lopsided that it's just ridiculous. I am ok with a loss but not like that man....not like that. I don't who in the hell this team is anymore.


I would get on the phone with Sam Shields or Greg Hardys agent like pronto. I would also seriously trade Clark....he has some value so trade him like now and draft defense.

[DenBronx]

102.3 on ESPN radio was just talking about Manning just needs to play QB. Let the coaches worry about everything else. I just think Manning has too much on his plate at times and if he was just able to play QB and not worry about everyone elses job then maybe he would play a little loser in big games. Mannings fault is sometimes he over prepares so much that he might go into some sort of burnout phase. Let Gase handle the play calls and then Manning can just worry about the play that's actually called. Too much is expected out of one guy and it just can't be that way. We can't depend on just ONE guy to be our savior. Everyone else has to do their job. Manning isnt GOD....he can't do the impossible guys. Let him do what he is good at and just be a QB dammit! He can't worry about being a coach too!

The OL didn't do their job yesterday. I counted at least 4 or 5 tipped passes??? The pocket collapsed several times, I feel like Manning could have been sacked 5-7 times any other QB surely could have.

Manning has been a master of disecting defenses but yesterday he just looked really really rattled as well as everyone else.



Coaching comes to mind here. I think we have talent, at least on offense but they didn't get these guys mentally prepared. Seattle just looked so loose and confident these last two weeks. Like they knew they were going to win. We looked timid and tight as a team and clearly we were fragile from the very first hit.

[whiteniko]

Our defense couldn't make plays on 3rd downs and get off the field early on. Manning and/or Gase panicked and abandoned the run all together. That opened the floodgate of the Seattle pass rush.

[jhildebrand]

I would also seriously trade Clark....he has some value so trade him like now and draft defense.

Clark very well may be the RT for this team next year with Franklin moving to LG.

[Tned]

102.3 on ESPN radio was just talking about Manning just needs to play QB. Let the coaches worry about everything else. I just think Manning has too much on his plate at times and if he was just able to play QB and not worry about everyone elses job then maybe he would play a little loser in big games. Mannings fault is sometimes he over prepares so much that he might go into some sort of burnout phase. Let Gase handle the play calls and then Manning can just worry about the play that's actually called. Too much is expected out of one guy and it just can't be that way. We can't depend on just ONE guy to be our savior. Everyone else has to do their job. Manning isnt GOD....he can't do the impossible guys. Let him do what he is good at and just be a QB dammit! He can't worry about being a coach too!

The OL didn't do their job yesterday. I counted at least 4 or 5 tipped passes??? The pocket collapsed several times, I feel like Manning could have been sacked 5-7 times any other QB surely could have.

Manning has been a master of disecting defenses but yesterday he just looked really really rattled as well as everyone else.



Coaching comes to mind here. I think we have talent, at least on offense but they didn't get these guys mentally prepared. Seattle just looked so loose and confident these last two weeks. Like they knew they were going to win. We looked timid and tight as a team and clearly we were fragile from the very first hit.

Historically, the way you get Manning off his game, is by putting heavy pressure on him. Now, one could argue that's the case with almost all QBs, and it is, but then there are exceptions with mobile QBs or some big beasts like Big Ben, who in his prime especially, would just laugh, and then shrug off, would be sackers, and then throw completions.

[bcbronc]

I feel any talk about blowing the team up/firing the coaches/cutting ties with Manning is over reactionary. Simple fact is, with how injury depleted the top AFC teams were this year, there's three NFC teams (SEA, SF, NO) that would have beaten any AFC team, and two more (CAR, GB) that might have. It was a fun regular season, and we got to avenge a couple of losses in the post-season, but we were going against SEA with one hand tied behind our back, while they were essentially 100% (even losing Browner, Maxwell had stepped in seamlessly and they didn't miss him).

This year is this year, next year is next year. There will be changes, there always is. Not just to us, but across the league. Don't know if Moreno and Decker will be back, but even without them we still have a top 10 offence. On defence, hopefully Von is back at 100% and we find some linebackers and safeties. Trevathan and Woodyard are what they are, but we must have one of the worst linebacker corps in the league, especially with Von out. That should be an easy upgrade. And when Moore was lost, our safety corp being pretty pedestrian, especially as Duke's play slipped in the second half of the season. Adams is a solid pro as a back up, but he's not starting material. This should also be a priority, and should be another easy upgrade (even if it's just getting Moore back and Duke having some experience now).

Biggest problem I saw in our offensive gameplan, we didn't have an answer to the speed of their defence. Our fall back all year vs successful pass rushes has been the screen game, but as we saw, too much speed and sure tackling on Seattle's defence for that to work. Been a bit of a achilles heel to a degree all year, that our OC and QB were to stubborn to help our OTs vs speed rushers. It's not a new thing that Clark and Franklin struggle vs speed on the edge, but we rarely helped with a TE. Gameplan vs SEA should have been to give Manning time at all costs, even if it meant sending less receivers on routes. Oh well, we just didn't match up well against them, but doesn't mean we should blow things up and start over.

Funny thing, I live in the Pacific Northwest (even though I'm in Canada, my city hall raised a 12th man flag last week) so I know a lot of Seahawk fans. I've been getting a lot of trash talk and condolences in texts and facebooks, but I wasn't too upset. I didn't think we had much of a chance going in as short handed as we were, so I was emotionally prepared to lose. Just hoped it would have been an enjoyable game. Next year, with some better health and a couple of key additions on defence, we should be knocking on the door again. In the meantime, I just keep telliing myself, at least it wasn't 55-10.

[Northman]

It's a shame that that doesn't work for Manning.
2013:
5,477 passing yards, NFL Record
55 touchdowns, NFL Record
2013 NFL AP MVP
2013 NFL PFWA MVP
2013 NFL Bert Bell Award (Player of the Year)
2013 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year
2013 First-Team All Pro

Career:
6,4964 passing yards, second all-time
491 touchdowns, second all-time
97.2 passer rating, second-highest all time
167 wins, second all time
51 fourth-quarter comebacks, most all time.

But, hey, he lost a game. So, you know, if he could just get an offensive coordinator... :rolleyes:

To be honest, i would take the Lombardi over all that. Those stats mean very little to me and im surprised so many of you jerk off to it as if its better than winning a championship. Its fun obviously but quoting that when that same offense simply got destroyed in the biggest game of all is just extremely weak dude.

[CrazyHorse]

zX4ox7aX_wc

[chazoe60]

Seattle is better.

[Tned]

To be honest, i would take the Lombardi over all that. Those stats mean very little to me and im surprised so many of you jerk off to it as if its better than winning a championship. Its fun obviously but quoting that when that same offense simply got destroyed in the biggest game of all is just extremely weak dude.

You're on a roll this morning.

Who has said it's "better than winning a championship"? Instead that was in response to so many of the reactionary emo comments about how Manning and the play calling are uninspired, here we have Schlereth saying he shouldn't audible from the line, just like that. It was a reminder that this offense was pretty damn good. So, rather than firing Fox and Gase, turning Manning into Tony Romo and other reactionary idiocy, it might be time to take a breather, realize the offense was something special, and hope the coaches look at the game tape and make roster adjustments to deal with a team like Seattle next year.

[DenBronx]

Historically, the way you get Manning off his game, is by putting heavy pressure on him. Now, one could argue that's the case with almost all QBs, and it is, but then there are exceptions with mobile QBs or some big beasts like Big Ben, who in his prime especially, would just laugh, and then shrug off, would be sackers, and then throw completions.


I forget who said it in one of the pregame shows. They said if Seattle front 4 can pressure Manning alone then it would be a very long night.


That's 4 DL guys man handling our 5 OL guys. 5 guys should be able to handle 4 DL and allow Manning to make his throws. Several times the ball was tipped at the line, which actually caused turnovers, or maybe Manning wasnt sacked but the pocket completely caved in. Which then would have made sense if your a mobile QB to go ahead and then scramble. I think SF had a little more success because Kap was able to scramble out of the pocket then then make a play. Mannings not built that way, he needs protection.


Which is another odd thing because I thought our OL primarily kept Manning clean, especially through the playoffs until running into a brick wall of Seattle front 4. Had we not got a safety and got some sort of protection then I think Manning looks like Manning. Once he gets rattled and starts getting hit a bit then he looks differant.

Ryan Clady coming back next season will be huge. I never realized how badly we needed him until we ran into a real front 4 like Seattle.

[CoachChaz]

I forget who said it in one of the pregame shows. They said if Seattle front 4 can pressure Manning alone then it would be a very long night.


That's 4 DL guys man handling our 5 OL guys. 5 guys should be able to handle 4 DL and allow Manning to make his throws. Several times the ball was tipped at the line, which actually caused turnovers, or maybe Manning wasnt sacked but the pocket completely caved in. Which then would have made sense if your a mobile QB to go ahead and then scramble. I think SF had a little more success because Kap was able to scramble out of the pocket then then make a play. Mannings not built that way, he needs protection.


Which is another odd thing because I thought our OL primarily kept Manning clean, especially through the playoffs until running into a brick wall of Seattle front 4. Had we not got a safety and got some sort of protection then I think Manning looks like Manning. Once he gets rattled and starts getting hit a bit then he looks differant.

Ryan Clady coming back next season will be huge. I never realized how badly we needed him until we ran into a real front 4 like Seattle.

Assuming he's 100%. Seems like everyone takes for granted that Clady will be the same, but...I know it's my own broken record...100% recovery from a Lisfranc injury has never happened yet.

[DenBronx]

Assuming he's 100%. Seems like everyone takes for granted that Clady will be the same, but...I know it's my own broken record...100% recovery from a Lisfranc injury has never happened yet.


And for a LT, especially one the size of Clady, is going to put alot of pressure on that foot.



It is a huge concern.

[CoachChaz]

And for a LT, especially one the size of Clady, is going to put alot of pressure on that foot.



It is a huge concern.


Exactly. Per medical professionals, recovering completely from a Lisfranc injury is toughest on people that have to use the foot for leverage or quick movements. (see: CB, LT) It is also sometimes considered worse than a knee ligament injury because a Lisfranc injury lasts a lifetime. People who have suffered them have had lingering effects into their twilight years

[Tned]

I forget who said it in one of the pregame shows. They said if Seattle front 4 can pressure Manning alone then it would be a very long night.


That's 4 DL guys man handling our 5 OL guys. 5 guys should be able to handle 4 DL and allow Manning to make his throws. Several times the ball was tipped at the line, which actually caused turnovers, or maybe Manning wasnt sacked but the pocket completely caved in. Which then would have made sense if your a mobile QB to go ahead and then scramble. I think SF had a little more success because Kap was able to scramble out of the pocket then then make a play. Mannings not built that way, he needs protection.


Which is another odd thing because I thought our OL primarily kept Manning clean, especially through the playoffs until running into a brick wall of Seattle front 4. Had we not got a safety and got some sort of protection then I think Manning looks like Manning. Once he gets rattled and starts getting hit a bit then he looks differant.

Ryan Clady coming back next season will be huge. I never realized how badly we needed him until we ran into a real front 4 like Seattle.

I first saw a chink in the unbreakable Manning armor against Pitt, back when they still had Bettis. Might have been that '05 season when Pitt beat us, but if not, in that rough time frame. Pitt was getting pressure on him on nearly every play, and even on the handful of plays they didn't get pressure, he was making mistakes.

Sunday, it wasn't just a matter of him being rattled, IMO, but the fact that there were few plays where he wasn't throwing under duress. That, and they were mostly doing it without blitzing (can't recall if or how often they blitzed), which means they still had DBs and linebackers spread all over the place in coverage. When your front five plus a RB can't stop a four man rush, than it's going to be a long night, especially when you have such an incredible back seven defensive unit.

[NightTerror218]

We lost because seattle wanted it more. It showed. We heard it all week. Broncos approach...its just another game. Seattle approach..ITS THE SUPERBOWL

[G_Money]

Assuming he's 100%. Seems like everyone takes for granted that Clady will be the same, but...I know it's my own broken record...100% recovery from a Lisfranc injury has never happened yet.

Another reason I want to go OL early in the draft. We'd better plan for having issues on the OL, as well as potentially moving Franklin to guard. I also want a blocking TE goddammit. One who can catch and block. They don't have to be wide - hell, I'd take the kid from CSU just because he can actually BLOCK somebody regardless of his weight.

Better technique, more players who can be deployed to keep the pocket clean, more options. If Clady is back and healthy, great! Damn did we miss him when it counted. If he's not right, then we need to have options.

[BroncoNut]

To be honest, i would take the Lombardi over all that. Those stats mean very little to me and im surprised so many of you jerk off to it as if its better than winning a championship. Its fun obviously but quoting that when that same offense simply got destroyed in the biggest game of all is just extremely weak dude.

hilarious.. Jerking off to NFLrecords. never thought about that one

[BroncoNut]

We lost because seattle wanted it more. It showed. We heard it all week. Broncos approach...its just another game. Seattle approach..ITS THE SUPERBOWL

I didn't hear too much in that regard, but I will take your word for it.

[Dzone]

We Lost because It seemed pre game story was all about Manning Vs Seattle, rather than Denver vs Seattle...They stopped Manning, they stopped the team. We have to get von back 100% or trade him for some defensive speed and strength. But I can see Elway wanting to have the best D in football next year. I think elway is embarrassed about the super bowl and the way his team got manhandled and out hit

[CoachChaz]

Having Von and Harris back makes a difference...but not enough. We are still missing key components. If Moore is done, we have ZERO safeties and we seriously need another pass rusher as well as a true MLB. If we can fill those holes adequately and bolster the O-line (bolster...not revamp), then we are in good shape.

Some people act as if we need to blow it all up and start over. I think we're right there. Just need some tweaks.

[Northman]

We Lost because It seemed pre game story was all about Manning Vs Seattle, rather than Denver vs Seattle...They stopped Manning, they stopped the team. We have to get von back 100% or trade him for some defensive speed and strength. But I can see Elway wanting to have the best D in football next year. I think elway is embarrassed about the super bowl and the way his team got manhandled and out hit

Pretty good post Zone. When we won in the late 90's we had so much more balance between the QB, RB, WR, ST, and defense. Really, outside of Wilson and maybe the starting WR's the Seahawks resembled that 98' squad in terms of player personnel (albeit their defense is much better than ours was) but the blueprint is there.

I dont think any team really fears our running attack despite Moreno and Ball having a good year. But Lynch strikes fear into defenses, Harvin is easily up there with a Darren Gordon so overall while weak in some areas they had much more balance than we did going in.

[weazel]

Sherman said the Seattle defense knew what plays were coming because the figured out Manning's hand signals...

[chazoe60]

Sherman said the Seattle defense knew what plays were coming because the figured out Manning's hand signals...
Maybe they hired NE's videographer? We should ask WTE about this. ;)

[Mike]

Having Von and Harris back makes a difference...but not enough. We are still missing key components. If Moore is done, we have ZERO safeties and we seriously need another pass rusher as well as a true MLB. If we can fill those holes adequately and bolster the O-line (bolster...not revamp), then we are in good shape.

Some people act as if we need to blow it all up and start over. I think we're right there. Just need some tweaks.

I don't know, Coach. I am probably still bitter, but that Bronco team wasn't a few tweaks from being competitive against that Seattle team. I mean what I saw was two teams miles apart from each other.

Maybe, maybe the defensive players that were out make more of an impact. Harris, Vickerson, and Miller are definitely impact players. Moore, maybe. But defense wasn't really the problem. They held their own and kept us in the game early. Our offense was the problem. And the beatdown was so thorough that a few tweaks aren't enough IMO.

We need physical players. We need mentally tough players. And we need coaches that can do that. Not coaches that look like they are stumped or who can't adapt a gameplan on the fly. Not coaches that consistently field sloppy, undisciplined teams. To me, this team is a team that lives or dies with how Manning plays. And as good as Manning is, he just can't do it all on his own. I was reminded of the smoke and mirrors team from 2006. Once teams figured out how to beat that team it was over. Fox and the coaching staff are nothing more than a group of guys that let Manning lead and do it all.

No, the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that this direction isn't going to win the SB. Win games, yes. Get to the playoffs, yes. Win the SB, no. In no way am I advocating blowing it all up, firing Fox, cutting Manning, etc. But I believe more than a subtle shift is required to win the SB.

[CoachChaz]

I don't know, Coach. I am probably still bitter, but that Bronco team wasn't a few tweaks from being competitive against that Seattle team. I mean what I saw was two teams miles apart from each other.

Maybe, maybe the defensive players that were out make more of an impact. Harris, Vickerson, and Miller are definitely impact players. Moore, maybe. But defense wasn't really the problem. They held their own and kept us in the game early. Our offense was the problem. And the beatdown was so thorough that a few tweaks aren't enough IMO.

We need physical players. We need mentally tough players. And we need coaches that can do that. Not coaches that look like they are stumped or who can't adapt a gameplan on the fly. Not coaches that consistently field sloppy, undisciplined teams. To me, this team is a team that lives or dies with how Manning plays. And as good as Manning is, he just can't do it all on his own. I was reminded of the smoke and mirrors team from 2006. Once teams figured out how to beat that team it was over. Fox and the coaching staff are nothing more than a group of guys that let Manning lead and do it all.

No, the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that this direction isn't going to win the SB. Win games, yes. Get to the playoffs, yes. Win the SB, no. In no way am I advocating blowing it all up, firing Fox, cutting Manning, etc. But I believe more than a subtle shift is required to win the SB.

What I saw offensively was a team start off bad and fall apart mentally after that. To me, the OL was the issue. We were eventually able to throw the ball when Manning started rolling out, but never could run worth a damn. Defensively...it was the same old stuff. Weak coverage and tackling in the secondary and no pass rush.

I think those things can be fixed without a major overhaul

[jhildebrand]

Unprepared, over analyzed it, failed to adjust, and lost because Seattle was simply better.

[Mike]

What I saw offensively was a team start off bad and fall apart mentally after that. To me, the OL was the issue. We were eventually able to throw the ball when Manning started rolling out, but never could run worth a damn. Defensively...it was the same old stuff. Weak coverage and tackling in the secondary and no pass rush.

I think those things can be fixed without a major overhaul

We will see. Denver is committed and I think they will take your subtle change approach. I will remain a doubter until they raise the Lombardi over their heads though.

[wayninja]

What I saw offensively was a team start off bad and fall apart mentally after that. To me, the OL was the issue. We were eventually able to throw the ball when Manning started rolling out, but never could run worth a damn. Defensively...it was the same old stuff. Weak coverage and tackling in the secondary and no pass rush.

I think those things can be fixed without a major overhaul


Agreed. The first few possessions caused a chain reaction of collapse. They were still in it time-wise, but they were bailing mentally.

That's a coaching and leadership issue.

[Robert3750]

The Seahawks are saying they figured out Manning's hand signals, giving their defense a big advantage. The Broncos failed to realize that and didn't adjust.

[CrazyHorse]

The Seahawks are saying they figured out Manning's hand signals, giving their defense a big advantage. The Broncos failed to realize that and didn't adjust.

At this point going no huddle actually hurts you. I seriously hope the coaching staff and Manning work on this going forward. I've always been under the impression that they change it up enough to keep defenses guessing. Apparently that's not the case.

[TXBRONC]

Yea, having Clady back and another nasty guy at LG would totally solidify the OLine. I'm ok losing Decker for a guy who is ok with going over the middle (might need one after the shots Welker took last night). Moreno is gone, not worth the money and Ball is better. ****. The defense is a two year project. We need to draft or get a FA leader. A stub MLB or S would be awesome, but at a minimum we need more pass rush. You need layers of guys who can put pressure on the QB, that is what makes the 49ers and Seahawks so good to go with their good secondary. I swear if Ayers is on this team next year I'm going to lose it.

For most of Moreno's time here I've thougth he was ok and nothing special and I wouldn't losing him to free agency. The notion that he this great fit that's just about irreplacable is poppycock. I haven't looked yet but I would guess there several running backs in the up coming draft who could easily replace Moreno's production. Granted Moreno stepped in a big way this year but I don't think he's that difficult of piece to replace. I wasn't sold on Ayers truly stepping up and in that respect he didn't disappoint the guy is a first round bust. So if they let him go Denver isn't losing much. FTR even though I see these two guys as replacable they are not the reason Denver lost the game. Maybe Bosco will show up tells differently because he's a know it all.

I don't know if we need to draft another mike linebacker. I think Irving is ready for the job. Adding another interior defensive lineman wouldn't hurt. I like the guys we have but if Denver could add another big body it wouldn't hurt my feelings. I agree bostering the secondary wouldn't hurt.

[Tned]

For most of Moreno's time here I've thougth he was ok and nothing special and I wouldn't losing him to free agency. The notion that he this great fit that's just about irreplacable is poppycock. I haven't looked yet but I would guess there several running backs in the up coming draft who could easily replace Moreno's production. Granted Moreno stepped in a big way this year but I don't think he's that difficult of piece to replace. I wasn't sold on Ayers truly stepping up and in that respect he didn't disappoint the guy is a first round bust. So if they let him go Denver isn't losing much. FTR even though I see these two guys as replacable they are not the reason Denver lost the game. Maybe Bosco will show up tells differently because he's a know it all.

I don't know if we need to draft another mike linebacker. I think Irving is ready for the job. Adding another interior defensive lineman wouldn't hurt. I like the guys we have but if Denver could add another big body it wouldn't hurt my feelings. I agree bostering the secondary wouldn't hurt.

Secondary and outside pass rusher (we might very well have that in house) are the two biggest concerns, along with improving pass protection on the line. The lack of sacks this year was more due to Manning than the line.

[TXBRONC]

We have more money available than most years in the last decade. We are carrying over $6.6 mil from last year. The cap is increasing by over $3 million. $5 million Doom counted this year is gone, along with $4 mil or so from other players. Lammey did a couple articles on this earlier in the month. The Broncos should be something like $33 million under the cap heading into free agency. Even after signing draft class, should have $25+ million to spend in free agency and he expects the Broncos to be one of the more active teams.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1940633-5-biggest-splashes-the-denver-broncos-could-realistically-make-in-free-agency

Again, Manning's salary wasn't a problem in '13 (we had $6.6 million in cap space we didn't spend) and it won't be in '14. He brings FAR, FAR more to the table than any other use of that $20 million.

Isn't in the CBA that every team has to use at least 90% of their cap space every year?

[Dzone]

There are some Seahawks free agents. I say we sign them all, whoever they are

[TXBRONC]

Secondary and outside pass rusher (we might very well have that in house) are the two biggest concerns, along with improving pass protection on the line. The lack of sacks this year was more due to Manning than the line.

If you're thinking Quanterus Smith that did occur to me. Even so I don't think it would hurt to add another outside pass rusher.

[Tned]

Isn't in the CBA that every team has to use at least 90% of their cap space every year?

Yes, I think it's 89% of the cap spent in actual cash. So, my interpretation of that is that it would include signing bonuses and such. So, if the cap is at 115 mil, then teams must spend 102 million in cash on player salaries, bonuses, etc. Also, over the life of the 10 year contract, it's supposed to net out at a 98% of cap paid out. I don't recall what the remedies are on that if the 98% threshold isn't met.

[BroncoJoe]

The Raiders have a shit-ton of cash to spend this offseason.

[Tned]

The Raiders have a shit-ton of cash to spend this offseason.

And thinking about it, I think that 89% may be league wide, not that each individual team must spend that.

In all of the panic, people don't realize that the Broncos are in pretty good shape cap wise. Broncos have more cap room than any of the final four teams. Among all teams that made the playoffs, Indy, GB, Eagles and Cincy are better off than the Broncos. The Broncos are in fine shape cap wise, all the OMG, we can't have $20 million tied up in Manning talk aside.

[Northman]

And thinking about it, I think that 89% may be league wide, not that each individual team must spend that.

In all of the panic, people don't realize that the Broncos are in pretty good shape cap wise. Broncos have more cap room than any of the final four teams. Among all teams that made the playoffs, Indy, GB, Eagles and Cincy are better off than the Broncos. The Broncos are in fine shape cap wise, all the OMG, we can't have $20 million tied up in Manning talk aside.

Well shit, lets sign Decker back then. :)