Pass Interference Dance... (via espn)

[artie_dale]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/10372990/secret-dance-pass-interference-flem-file

I criticized our DBs earlier in the season (Carter I think) about the PI calls against him and our DBs. But, I take that all back. I'm glad our DBs are physical too.

[Joel]

That final assessment, "the best cheater wins," was my biggest concern about this game at least 2 months before the playoffs even started. Rationalizing it on the grounds WRs do it, too, is largely BS; in my book euphemistically calling picks "rubs" doesn't make them any less picks, and they should be flagged as such, but "I jam you, grab some jersey, you push off" isn't the tit for tat ESPN makes it out to be: If either player INITIATES contact—especially >5 yds past the line (after which it's illegal)—the other has every right to physically BREAK that contact.

Unfortunately, they're probably right the refs won't want to be seen as deciding the game by flagging DBs on consecutive plays, even if they DO commit consecutive fouls. Just like Walter Thurmonds doping suspension ended a few weeks before the playoffs, even though the drug enhancement to his performance didn't (which is why PED bans should last the season, IMHO.)

It is what it is; we must simply hope our WRs aren't as unwilling as they too often have been to fight through press coverage instead of just flopping for flags they often didn't get. I think some of it comes down to rep, and not always in the positive way Bernard Pollard insists Manning gets all the calls because the refs are in awe of Manning: Refs usually want to stay out of it and "let 'em play," but when you've got a record-setting passing attack or #1 D, there's a mindset that says you should be able to make those plays without getting those breaks.

Wait and see....

[artie_dale]

I'd rather the Refs just do their job. If a play constantly is PIing, then fricken call it every time, even if it's over and over and over and over. That is the only way to get them to stop. It's the rules and it's their job to uphold them. If they aren't capable of doing that, then they need to let someone else do it. In a way, the Refs ARE deciding the outcome of the game. They are just doing it passively. If upholding the rules is deciding the outcome of a game, then it is what it is. But, not upholding the rules only means that they are condoning that the players are resorting to what now can be considered cheating because they are exploiting the lack of refereeing. If everyone did their job, there will be no legit excuses in the end.

I fear that we will be losers in the end because the Refs didn't do their job. Is it really letting the best team win if the Refs allow them to do things that aren't defined as legal? (talking NFL rules here) I've never been a fan of that "Let'em play" argument. They are supposed to play within the rules and those are the rules and it's the refs job to uphold those rules, not matter how many times they break them. Just my opinion.

[Joel]

I'd rather the Refs just do their job. If a play constantly is PIing, then fricken call it every time, even if it's over and over and over and over. That is the only way to get them to stop. It's the rules and it's their job to uphold them. If they aren't capable of doing that, then they need to let someone else do it. In a way, the Refs ARE deciding the outcome of the game. They are just doing it passively. If upholding the rules is deciding the outcome of a game, then it is what it is. But, not upholding the rules only means that they are condoning that the players are resorting to what now can be considered cheating because they are exploiting the lack of refereeing. If everyone did their job, there will be no legit excuses in the end.

I fear that we will be losers in the end because the Refs didn't do their job. Is it really letting the best team win if the Refs allow them to do things that aren't defined as legal? (talking NFL rules here) I've never been a fan of that "Let'em play" argument. They are supposed to play within the rules and those are the rules and it's the refs job to uphold those rules, not matter how many times they break them. Just my opinion.
I completely agree: If one team can't win within the rules but the other can, the second is better than the other at that particular game, almost by definition. I mean, if we went Last Boy Scout on their DBs we'd probably win unless they returned fire, but then we're playing a very different game than football. You're absolutely right refs decide the game if they let teams that can only win by breaking the rules do just that. At the very least, if they're going to ignore DBs pushing and shoving the length of the field, they should ignore it from WRs, too; that's only fair.

You're also right the only way to stop a consistent habit of breaking the rules is to consistently penalize players each and every time they commit that foul. That's why the NFL has additional escalating penalties for substance abuse, PEDs and head-hunting. We hear players all the time brazenly and basically saying, "They won't catch me everytime, so the few times I get flagged are worth it for the many times I don't."

[Simple Jaded]

As long as they let both teams play I don't care, be consistent.

[Nomad]

I'm a 'Let'em Play' kinda guy unless it's really blatant. BRONCOS receivers are gonna have to get tough. I'll be really disappointed if the BRONCOS come out crying after every broken play.

[Joel]

As long as they let both teams play I don't care, be consistent.
I largely agree with that; even if the refs decide to use a completely different set of rules than the ones in the book to which players are coached all year, at least it's fair as long as they call it the same way for everyone. In this case though, letting DBs ignore the rules despite the NFLs much vaunted safety concerns would screw us a little, just as bad weather would: Crippling the passing game for both teams may seem fair at first glance, but when one team passes a lot and the other seldom, the impact's very unequal.

[artie_dale]

Just stick to the rules and then there is no excuses (REFS).

[Joel]

Just stick to the rules and then there is no excuses (REFS).
Quite so, but I frankly doubt there's a snowballs chance in NYC that happens. The best we can hope is they screw both receiving corps equally, which, sadly, screws our whole team far more than Seattles. Unless, of course, we take a 10 pt lead to the fourth, forcing them to pass because they don't have time to run, and Carter's out there decapitating WRs while the refs just shrug. I must admit that would make me laugh at the poetic justice: Got all the way to the SB solely because the NFL doesn't enforce its rules, then lost solely because the NFL doesn't enforce its rules.

"He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints."
Then again, Seattle crushed the Saints twice this year, so take that for what it's worth.

[Simple Jaded]

I largely agree with that; even if the refs decide to use a completely different set of rules than the ones in the book to which players are coached all year, at least it's fair as long as they call it the same way for everyone. In this case though, letting DBs ignore the rules despite the NFLs much vaunted safety concerns would screw us a little, just as bad weather would: Crippling the passing game for both teams may seem fair at first glance, but when one team passes a lot and the other seldom, the impact's very unequal.

If they let the WR's get as physical as the DB's that works for me, I don't think Seattle's WR's are as built for it as Denver's.

[Joel]

If they let the WR's get as physical as the DB's that works for me, I don't think Seattle's WR's are as built for it as Denver's.
My impression has been that they generally haven't let OUR WRs do that this year, even though pretty much EVERY secondary got physical with them (especially after Indy had such success with it; NFL coaches aren't proud: If someone finds a way to beat a previously unstoppable team, everyone copies it X for O.) Again, just my impression, but it seemed like everyone got rough with our guys but rarely got flagged, while we didn't fight back and often got flagged for OFFENSIVE PI when we did.

The second half of the season our WRs fought more (e.g. on Deckers first TD @Arrowhead the DB reached out going down the middle of the field, so Decker just shoved him right back and used it to push off and get wide open for the catch.) After that crap with Belicheat though I'm very worried we'll get flagged for every real or imagined pick, and Seattle will continue getting the free passes they've enjoyed all year because "well, they're both physical teams; we must let them play."

Roughly 24 hours now; pretty soon the speculation will end and we'll have a definitive final answer. I hope it goes our way, but it sure seems like the stars are aligned against us.

[Simple Jaded]

My impression has been that they generally haven't let OUR WRs do that this year, even though pretty much EVERY secondary got physical with them (especially after Indy had such success with it; NFL coaches aren't proud: If someone finds a way to beat a previously unstoppable team, everyone copies it X for O.) Again, just my impression, but it seemed like everyone got rough with our guys but rarely got flagged, while we didn't fight back and often got flagged for OFFENSIVE PI when we did.

The second half of the season our WRs fought more (e.g. on Deckers first TD @Arrowhead the DB reached out going down the middle of the field, so Decker just shoved him right back and used it to push off and get wide open for the catch.) After that crap with Belicheat though I'm very worried we'll get flagged for every real or imagined pick, and Seattle will continue getting the free passes they've enjoyed all year because "well, they're both physical teams; we must let them play."

Roughly 24 hours now; pretty soon the speculation will end and we'll have a definitive final answer. I hope it goes our way, but it sure seems like the stars are aligned against us.

Stars have been against Denver all season.