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CrazyHorse
01-29-2014, 02:28 PM
Super Bowl XLVIII could be Knowshon Moreno's final game wearing Denver Broncos orange. 2014 free-agent roundup

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport said Wednesday on NFL Network's "Super Bowl Live" that the Broncos don't expect to be able to re-sign the running back for 2014.

Moreno is a free agent after the season and should hit the market, according to Rapoport.

Moreno took advantage of the soft fronts that teams employed against quarterback Peyton Manning this season. The running back is coming off a career season, rushing for 1,038 yards on 241 carries and hauling in 60 receptions for 548 yards with 13 total touchdowns. He played 16 games for the first time since his 2009 rookie season.

The Broncos are projected to be slightly under the estimated $126 million cap for 2014, and Moreno could be one of the casualties. Rookie Montee Ball has shown toughness and could take on a bigger role if Denver watches Moreno walk.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000319702/article/knowshon-moreno-not-expected-to-return-to-broncos

Maybe Champ retires and that frees up some money for us. I hope that's the case.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 02:30 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000319702/article/knowshon-moreno-not-expected-to-return-to-broncos

Maybe Champ retires and that frees up some money for us. I hope that's the case.

I think Champ will be off the team even if he doesn't retire, but we just have too many other players to sign... hopefully Decker. I would love for Manning to restructure his contract so that we can get some relief.

Buff
01-29-2014, 02:35 PM
He hit his ceiling this year.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 02:38 PM
Just more reason for Moreno to play the game of his LIFE and go out with a HUGE bang!

Northman
01-29-2014, 02:42 PM
Not too shocking if it happens. Ball seems to be progressing nicely but i agree with Rav i think Champ will be gone regardless, probably Deck too but im hoping we find a way to keep him.

Buff
01-29-2014, 02:44 PM
Decker will be back - he is young, productive and a Manning favorite. There is no question in my mind he will be back, even if it's on a franchise tag.

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 02:46 PM
Decker will be back - he is young, productive and a Manning favorite. There is no question in my mind he will be back, even if it's on a franchise tag.

will Manning be back though? I think so personally

we need to keep Woody and Vickerson

Buff
01-29-2014, 02:56 PM
will Manning be back though? I think so personally

we need to keep Woody and Vickerson

Yes, he basically removed all doubt this week and said he'll be back next year. Which is one of the reasons why I think they will make an effort to keep his main WR corps intact, including Decker.

I like Big Vick. Can take or leave Woody.

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 03:01 PM
Our best bet is to get Decker to agree to a team friendly deal. It makes ZERO sense to tag him and pay him that ridiculous number. At the end of the day...defense needs to be our focus this off-season.

claymore
01-29-2014, 03:01 PM
I hope they look at trading Clady as well. Love the dude, but we made the SB with Clark at LT. I think we can redraft the position, and gain 8.5 million in cap space. Losing Clady's and Baileys contract would pay for a majority of our needs.

LTC Pain
01-29-2014, 03:04 PM
Broncos Priority Re-signs: DRC, Vick and Decker

Not so much: Champ, Woody, Moreno. We can draft/sign FAs to replace.

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 03:05 PM
why isn't woody valued? I love his mlb play earlier this season

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-29-2014, 03:06 PM
Personally, I can only see there being any kind of a bidding war for him if there's a team or two that highly values 3rd down backs and have a desperate need for one. Off the top of my head I don't know who that would be. Teams won't let his rushing stats push them into a quick decision. They understand a lot of his stats came against 6 man fronts.

I could see the Saints in play, of course that's without knowing what their cap space is. They have guys that are decent between the tackles, but they also seem to have a hard time keeping Brees upright. I could possibly see SD making a play for him. Beyond that, I just don't know. I've had the opinion for several years that he's an elite 3rd down back, and have argued with people until I'm blue in the face who seem to think being a 3rd down back solely consists of speed and receiving ability. I still believe he's an elite 3rd down back. I just don't know how big the market is for 3rd down backs this offseason.

Buff
01-29-2014, 03:07 PM
Our best bet is to get Decker to agree to a team friendly deal. It makes ZERO sense to tag him and pay him that ridiculous number. At the end of the day...defense needs to be our focus this off-season.

I mean, I'm sort of inclined to agree with you... But we are in the Super Bowl this year with a mediocre defense and a Star Wars offense. We are going to have to pay him borderline #1 WR money - so I don't think renting him for one more year at an inflated rate to keep him paired with Manning is the worst idea.

Obviously the best strategy is always to get someone to sign a team friendly deal.

Buff
01-29-2014, 03:08 PM
why isn't woody valued? I love his mlb play earlier this season

He just isn't as good as his hype. He is a solid tackler and solid leader who is out of position all the time and gets overwhelmed by o-linemen more easily than a MLB should.

Magnificent Seven
01-29-2014, 03:10 PM
Re-sign Moreno. Keep Moreno and Ball for season '14. Release Ronnie Hillman.

slim
01-29-2014, 03:13 PM
I hope they look at trading Clady as well. Love the dude, but we made the SB with Clark at LT. I think we can redraft the position, and gain 8.5 million in cap space. Losing Clady's and Baileys contract would pay for a majority of our needs.

Clay!

We're in the Super Bowl buddy

slim
01-29-2014, 03:13 PM
I would rather they keep Moreno than Decker

Buff
01-29-2014, 03:17 PM
I would rather they keep Moreno than Decker

Much easier to replace Moreno than Decker IMO. Young WRs almost always struggle because there is such a big learning curve and the position is so nuanced in the NFL - especially to play in a Manning offense.

RBs are plug and play.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-29-2014, 03:19 PM
Decker will be back - he is young, productive and a Manning favorite. There is no question in my mind he will be back, even if it's on a franchise tag.

Moreno is also a Manning favorite

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-29-2014, 03:19 PM
Much easier to replace Moreno than Decker IMO. Young WRs almost always struggle because there is such a big learning curve and the position is so nuanced in the NFL - especially to play in a Manning offense.

RBs are plug and play.

RB's are not plug and play in this offense. Even Ball, who by all accounts is very intelligent, struggled the first half of the season. If Ball misses a few games next year, who steps in, Hillman, an unproven rookie?

slim
01-29-2014, 03:22 PM
Much easier to replace Moreno than Decker IMO. Young WRs almost always struggle because there is such a big learning curve and the position is so nuanced in the NFL - especially to play in a Manning offense.

RBs are plug and play.

Yeah, I know. But Moreno won me over with his play this year...dude has left it all out on the field. Decker on the other hand was really pissing me off early in the year, with his whining and crying for flags.

We need 53 guys that leave it all out there and zero that half-ass it because they expect the refs to help them out.

Buff
01-29-2014, 03:22 PM
RB's are not plug and play in this offense. Even Ball, who by all accounts is very intelligent, struggled the first half of the season. If Ball misses a few games next year, who steps in, Hillman, an unproven rookie?

I'm fully comfortable plugging in Ball next year with Hillman competing with some young guys for the #2 job. Ball looked more and more solid as the year went on.

Buff
01-29-2014, 03:24 PM
Yeah, I know. But Moreno won me over with his play this year...dude has left it all out on the field. Decker on the other hand was really pissing me off early in the year, with his whining and crying for flags.

We need 53 guys that leave it all out there and zero that half-ass it because they expect the refs to help them out.

I like Decker's game. He is physically imposing. I think he's taken an excessive amount of criticism from Broncos fans.

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 03:25 PM
Much easier to replace Moreno than Decker IMO. Young WRs almost always struggle because there is such a big learning curve and the position is so nuanced in the NFL - especially to play in a Manning offense.

RBs are plug and play.

I dont' know about all of that. you might have something, just saying. I like what I've seen in Caldwell. but I do like Decker. tough white boy, good looking too!

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 03:25 PM
Our best bet is to get Decker to agree to a team friendly deal. It makes ZERO sense to tag him and pay him that ridiculous number. At the end of the day...defense needs to be our focus this off-season.

I mean, I'm sort of inclined to agree with you... But we are in the Super Bowl this year with a mediocre defense and a Star Wars offense. We are going to have to pay him borderline #1 WR money - so I don't think renting him for one more year at an inflated rate to keep him paired with Manning is the worst idea.

Obviously the best strategy is always to get someone to sign a team friendly deal.

But that franchise amount could cripple our cap space. I think our offense is just fine finding a solid replacement for him. So maybe we don't score 37 per game. I have a feeling that if we scored 30 per game and improved the defense to only give up 18 per game...we'd actually be a better overall team.

Spend the money on DRC, a play making safety, a true MLB and a pass rusher

silkamilkamonico
01-29-2014, 03:27 PM
I've always thought Woodyard was way overrated.

Would suck to lose Moreno. Understandably considering our situation, but then RB is going to jump up to the forefront again as a need.

slim
01-29-2014, 03:27 PM
I like Decker's game. He is physically imposing. I think he's taken an excessive amount of criticism from Broncos fans.

He has come up big in some games (and stop whining for flags too). In a perfect world they would be able to keep both.

But going into next season with one legit RB on the roster is not a good idea (I guess maybe two if you count CJ). We are gonna need more than that.

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 03:27 PM
I hope they look at trading Clady as well. Love the dude, but we made the SB with Clark at LT. I think we can redraft the position, and gain 8.5 million in cap space. Losing Clady's and Baileys contract would pay for a majority of our needs.

I was reading an article the other day by a doctor that said NO professional athlete has ever recovered 100% after a Lisfranc injury. Something to keep in mind

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 03:29 PM
CJ would be a solid #2. Write it down

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 03:30 PM
I hope they look at trading Clady as well. Love the dude, but we made the SB with Clark at LT. I think we can redraft the position, and gain 8.5 million in cap space. Losing Clady's and Baileys contract would pay for a majority of our needs.

That isn't going to happen after we JUST signed him to a big contract this year. Yes, we went to the Super Bowl because of Manning and Clark. What happens when we dont have that solid up-front OL when we have a different QB? I want Clady to be on that LT spot.

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 03:31 PM
I hope they look at trading Clady as well. Love the dude, but we made the SB with Clark at LT. I think we can redraft the position, and gain 8.5 million in cap space. Losing Clady's and Baileys contract would pay for a majority of our needs.

That isn't going to happen after we JUST signed him to a big contract this year. Yes, we went to the Super Bowl because of Manning and Clark. What happens when we dont have that solid up-front OL when we have a different QB? I want Clady to be on that LT spot.

I would agree...but again...no athlete has ever fully recovered from a Lisfranc injury. Who knows what happens.

Buff
01-29-2014, 03:31 PM
I was reading an article the other day by a doctor that said NO professional athlete has ever recovered 100% after a Lisfranc injury. Something to keep in mind

He was limping at the mall the other day when I saw him. #HardHittingInsiderTakes

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 03:31 PM
RB's are not plug and play in this offense. Even Ball, who by all accounts is very intelligent, struggled the first half of the season. If Ball misses a few games next year, who steps in, Hillman, an unproven rookie?

All RBs struggle early with blocking assignments and responsibilities early in their career. It wasn't so much the system, as recognizing blocking, the HARDEST part for rookie RBs to transition to. RBs are pretty much plug-n-play...especially veteran RBs.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 03:33 PM
I would agree...but again...no athlete has ever fully recovered from a Lisfranc injury. Who knows what happens.

Eh.. and they used to say that about ACL's as well. Not to mention, if it heals to 90%, is that good enough?

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 03:35 PM
I dont' know about all of that. you might have something, just saying. I like what I've seen in Caldwell. but I do like Decker. tough white boy, good looking too!

Caldwell, really?

claymore
01-29-2014, 03:37 PM
That isn't going to happen after we JUST signed him to a big contract this year. Yes, we went to the Super Bowl because of Manning and Clark. What happens when we dont have that solid up-front OL when we have a different QB? I want Clady to be on that LT spot.

Trading Clady isnt going to be a popular idea, but he isnt needed. He is a nice to have. We have to replace our best CB's, best RB, 2nd best receiver etc... Clady will be at the end of his contract by the time Manning leaves. Id rather divert that 8.5 million a year to another needed position. I understand the need for a great LT, but Manning gets paid to make up for those deficiencies. Hence Clark.

claymore
01-29-2014, 03:38 PM
Clay!

We're in the Super Bowl buddy

So excited dude. Ive been soaking in all the media stuff. Not taking a second for granted. :D

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 03:39 PM
I would agree...but again...no athlete has ever fully recovered from a Lisfranc injury. Who knows what happens.

Eh.. and they used to say that about ACL's as well. Not to mention, if it heals to 90%, is that good enough?

Good question. The article said it was toughest for players that had to put more pressure on the foot. I would think leveraging into a 275 lb DE or having to quickly shift your own 300 lb body on an inside move would be an issue. But I'm not going to pretend to be a doctor

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 03:39 PM
Caldwell, really?

yeah, I think he's filled in nicely this year when needed. He's caught some nice balls, I thought. I was just considering depth/not saying he could step up to a #2 receiver or anything

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 03:41 PM
I dont' know about all of that. you might have something, just saying. I like what I've seen in Caldwell. but I do like Decker. tough white boy, good looking too!

Caldwell, really?

Looked good when Welker was out

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 03:44 PM
Trading Clady isnt going to be a popular idea, but he isnt needed. He is a nice to have. We have to replace our best CB's, best RB, 2nd best receiver etc... Clady will be at the end of his contract by the time Manning leaves. Id rather divert that 8.5 million a year to another needed position. I understand the need for a great LT, but Manning gets paid to make up for those deficiencies. Hence Clark.

Wait.. what?

Teams across the NFL look to have a franchise QB and a top LT. Since when is the LT not a must have? There is a reason that LTs are paid top money. Please don't tell me Clark is good enough purely because he performed well with Manning behind center, this year, in the most prolific passing attack in NFL history. If Manning wasn't behind center, how well would Clark really look? We JUST signed Clady to a 5 year deal this year. 33 of that guaranteed. How much of that 10 million a year signing bonus do we eat if we trade him away.. the remaining 22 million?

Manning gets paid to make up for those deficiencies?

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 03:45 PM
Looked good when Welker was out

Ididn't think he did. How well would he be in that position if Decker wasn't on the outside? I think Caldwell is a 4th WR at best in a rotation.

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 03:48 PM
Ididn't think he did. How well would he be in that position if Decker wasn't on the outside? I think Caldwell is a 4th WR at best in a rotation.

Ravage, you are out of control in this thread. you are being aggressive

nevcraw
01-29-2014, 04:07 PM
Wait.. what?

Teams across the NFL look to have a franchise QB and a top LT. Since when is the LT not a must have? There is a reason that LTs are paid top money. Please don't tell me Clark is good enough purely because he performed well with Manning behind center, this year, in the most prolific passing attack in NFL history. If Manning wasn't behind center, how well would Clark really look? We JUST signed Clady to a 5 year deal this year. 33 of that guaranteed. How much of that 10 million a year signing bonus do we eat if we trade him away.. the remaining 22 million?

Manning gets paid to make up for those deficiencies?

Plenty of teams are testing that need for Franchise LT theory these days.. but i agree it's would be hard to trade Clady after that contract an iffy injury..

Joel
01-29-2014, 04:11 PM
And it's only Wednesday; after DRC and now Moreno I'm starting to think everyone but Manning will declare the SB their last game in Denver before we even PLAY it. I realize this wasn't from Moreno himself, but, good grief, I REALLY hope half our roster's not spending this week wondering where (or if) they'll play next season, while the other half wonders whom their teammates will be. We don't need those kinds of distractions and uncertanities occupying the teams mind before and during what is, for EVERYONE but Manning, the biggest game of their careers.

Also, I agree with Al Wilson 4 Mayor and a recent NFL.com article saying much the same: Yes, Moreno had a fine year; no, there's not much market demand for him, especially not at the prices a guy coming off 1000 rushing yds, 500 receiving, >10 TDs and a SB appearance typically demands. Many GMs will say (with some degree of truth) Mannings offense boosted Morenos stats.

Ugh. Is it Sunday yet? I'm tired of wondering wtf all will go wrong 4 days before our first SB in 15 years when we aren't even PLAYING now.

nevcraw
01-29-2014, 04:12 PM
love Moreno's heart this year but he will a luxury item we probably can't keep. without manning at QB he's not a stud running back. he will get overpaid somewhere and people will sadly probably call him a bust again unless he goes to place with another top tier QB.
I want Champ to stay and make slide to nickel and safety. he's going to be a great safety if given the chance. sad if it won't happen here.

nevcraw
01-29-2014, 04:13 PM
Geez, it's only Wednesday; after DRC and now Moreno I'm starting to think everyone but Manning will announce the SB's their last game as a Bronco before we even PLAY it. I realize this wasn't an announcement from Moreno himself, but, good grief, I REALLY hope half our roster's not spending much of this week wondering where (or if) they'll play next season, while the other half wonders whom their teammates will be. We don't need those kinds of distractions and uncertanities occupying the teams mind before and during what is, for EVERYONE but Manning, the biggest game of their careers.

Also, I agree with Al Wilson 4 Mayor and a recent NFL.com article saying much the same thing: Yes, Moreno had a great season; no, there's not much market demand for him, especially not at the prices a guy coming off 1000 rushing yds, 500 receiving, >10 TDs and a SB appearance typically demands. Many GMs will say (with a certain degree of truth) playing in Mannings offense boosted those stats.

Ugh. Is it Sunday yet? I'm tired of wondering wtf all will go wrong 4 days before our first SB in 15 years when we aren't even PLAYING now.

DRC has recanted that statement.

Slick
01-29-2014, 04:14 PM
I will be sad to see Moreno go, if he does. He has played really well and done all the team has asked. He could have easily thrown in the towel after getting benched last year. Dude plays with heart and passion. I have completely changed my opinion on him.

This off season will be tough on the Broncos. We have some coveted free agents on this team.

BroncoWave
01-29-2014, 04:15 PM
I am not a fan of this. I think he's more important to this offense than people realize. Granted Ball has been coming along nicely, but I would still really to have Moreno back. I would hope we can find a way to bring him back.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 04:16 PM
Ravage, you are out of control in this thread. you are being aggressive

I am? I guess I just get a little shocked when fans are so easy to get rid of the top talent on this team. Teams do NOT get better by trading away and getting rid of their best talent (almost always, I know someone is going to give examples).

Just like Clady this year... would we have been even better had he been in the lineup? Probably, and although one can say "how much better can we be"..that's easy to say when things went well. But without guys like Decker on the outside, that potent offense is diminished a great deal, that would make the OL (particularly the LT) that much more important. Not to mention when we don't have Manning in the lineup. I guess I'm always just a bit taken back on that line of thinking, I suppose.

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 04:16 PM
Looked good when Welker was out

Ididn't think he did. How well would he be in that position if Decker wasn't on the outside? I think Caldwell is a 4th WR at best in a rotation.

Well...Decker was in the slot those games, so I guess that answers the question. He (Caldwell) was also the leading receiver in one of them.

Nevertheless...with the emergence of JT, I don't think its a requirement for us to have 4 top shelf options. Especially if the defense can be improved.

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 04:18 PM
Well...Decker was in the slot those games, so I guess that answers the question. He (Caldwell) was also the leading receiver in one of them.

Nevertheless...with the emergence of JT, I don't think its a requirement for us to have 4 top shelf options. Especially if the defense can be improved.

I agree with this coach. I am like minded.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 04:18 PM
Well...Decker was in the slot those games, so I guess that answers the question. He (Caldwell) was also the leading receiver in one of them.

Nevertheless...with the emergence of JT, I don't think its a requirement for us to have 4 top shelf options. Especially if the defense can be improved.

Our WRs change positions quite a bit from the slot to the outside, even the TE moves to the Z on many occasions depending on the matchups and defense.

But, I'm thinking of life without Welker and Manning. I think guys like Clady and Decker will be HUGE for any QB that either emerges or is brought in.

Buff
01-29-2014, 04:19 PM
No team would take the Clady contract coming off of his major injury. He is not going anywhere.

Ziggy
01-29-2014, 04:22 PM
Clady's value will come into play when Manning retires. Clark is fine with a QB that gets rid of the ball within 3 seconds. Put an average QB back there and Clark will look like a different LT.

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 04:22 PM
Ravage, you are out of control in this thread. you are being aggressive

I am? I guess I just get a little shocked when fans are so easy to get rid of the top talent on this team. Teams do NOT get better by trading away and getting rid of their best talent (almost always, I know someone is going to give examples).

Just like Clady this year... would we have been even better had he been in the lineup? Probably, and although one can say "how much better can we be"..that's easy to say when things went well. But without guys like Decker on the outside, that potent offense is diminished a great deal, that would make the OL (particularly the LT) that much more important. Not to mention when we don't have Manning in the lineup. I guess I'm always just a bit taken back on that line of thinking, I suppose.

Because with a salary cap, you have to lok beyond this year...and next year...and the year after. Look at the young talent we have. At some point they have to be paid and if we lock up all tge offensive talent, the defense sucks.

Like someone else said, we have a luxury this year and we have to take advantage of it because it won't last

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 04:23 PM
Our WRs change positions quite a bit from the slot to the outside, even the TE moves to the Z on many occasions depending on the matchups and defense.

But, I'm thinking of life without Welker and Manning. I think guys like Clady and Decker will be HUGE for any QB that either emerges or is brought in.

gotchya, but what is the Z?

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 04:25 PM
Well...Decker was in the slot those games, so I guess that answers the question. He (Caldwell) was also the leading receiver in one of them.

Nevertheless...with the emergence of JT, I don't think its a requirement for us to have 4 top shelf options. Especially if the defense can be improved.

Our WRs change positions quite a bit from the slot to the outside, even the TE moves to the Z on many occasions depending on the matchups and defense.

But, I'm thinking of life without Welker and Manning. I think guys like Clady and Decker will be HUGE for any QB that either emerges or is brought in.

I understand that, but two 10 mil receivers? Along with a 9 mil tackle, and eventually a top paid TE? Where do we find the money to pay anyone else?

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 04:26 PM
Our WRs change positions quite a bit from the slot to the outside, even the TE moves to the Z on many occasions depending on the matchups and defense.

But, I'm thinking of life without Welker and Manning. I think guys like Clady and Decker will be HUGE for any QB that either emerges or is brought in.

gotchya, but what is the Z?

Slot

Edit: oops...misread this

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 04:27 PM
Slot

why do they call it the Z? just do I suppose huh?

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 04:29 PM
Because with a salary cap, you have to lok beyond this year...and next year...and the year after. Look at the young talent we have. At some point they have to be paid and if we lock up all tge offensive talent, the defense sucks.

Like someone else said, we have a luxury this year and we have to take advantage of it because it won't last

So what defensive talent wasn't replaceable this year? Our defense sucks, but we are in the Super Bowl with offense. Champ was replaced with Harris, our LBs have moved around all year, and they seem to be better now than Before. We lost Von, and some believe our defense is better without him. We lost Harris, nd our defense clamped NE down. We have lost our DTs, and yet someone steps up.

Seems that the defensive talent is just as easy to replace with the "no names" than the offense is, yet you believe we should spend the money there when we are obviously an offensive team. WIth today's NFL the offense has the advantage, so one could easily feel that you boost the side of the ball that already has the advantages to overcome the disadvangtaged side of the ball.

It absolutely will not last, especially if you trade away your best players. QBs are the catalyst of this league, but young QBs can perform fantastically if given quality talent around them. Continue to take away from the quality talent on the offense, and see how long it takes to find a quality QB. Keep the talent around the QB, and things can still be at a high level.

To me, that means you make Decker a priority. LT stays as it is, and we draft a MLB and DT. With the guys coming back of injury on the DL, and coming back off injury on the OL, and the LB position.... the rest is fill-in.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 04:31 PM
gotchya, but what is the Z?

The Z is the outside reciever on the same side as the TE. Why is it called the Z? :whoknows:

Like baseball, the pitcher is 1, catcher 2..blah blah.... WR's are XYZ

claymore
01-29-2014, 04:33 PM
Wait.. what?

Teams across the NFL look to have a franchise QB and a top LT. Since when is the LT not a must have? There is a reason that LTs are paid top money. Please don't tell me Clark is good enough purely because he performed well with Manning behind center, this year, in the most prolific passing attack in NFL history. If Manning wasn't behind center, how well would Clark really look? We JUST signed Clady to a 5 year deal this year. 33 of that guaranteed. How much of that 10 million a year signing bonus do we eat if we trade him away.. the remaining 22 million?

Manning gets paid to make up for those deficiencies?

Manning doesnt require a top echelon LT to be great. That is a position that we can afford a huge talent level drop off and it doesnt affect the team. I think the same about WR. Manning cant make the Defense great though. I think that is where we need to channel the money.

We shouldnt eat anything if we trade Clady. If we cut him, thats a different story.

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 04:33 PM
The Z is the outside reciever on the same side as the TE. Why is it called the Z? :whoknows:

Like baseball, the pitcher is 1, catcher 2..blah blah.... WR's are XYZ

last I heard there were 26 letters in the alphabet and 11 men on the field, but whatever...I get it now, thanks. And sorry for being hard on you earlier

claymore
01-29-2014, 04:38 PM
Clady's value will come into play when Manning retires. Clark is fine with a QB that gets rid of the ball within 3 seconds. Put an average QB back there and Clark will look like a different LT.

Agreed. But, by then he will be close to the end of his contract, and had 3 major injuries. I just dont see the sense in keeping someone at that pay rate for Mannings retirement.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 04:39 PM
Manning doesnt require a top echelon LT to be great. That is a position that we can afford a huge talent level drop off and it doesnt affect the team. I think the same about WR. Manning cant make the Defense great though. I think that is where we need to channel the money.

We shouldnt eat anything if we trade Clady. If we cut him, thats a different story.

We don't lose anything if the other team agrees to pay his guaranteed money.

But I guess I'm confused as to why you are only looking at while Manning is here. I don't think Elway is looking purely for next year and only next year.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 04:40 PM
last I heard there were 26 letters in the alphabet and 11 men on the field, but whatever...I get it now, thanks. And sorry for being hard on you earlier

hah.. you crack me up.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-29-2014, 04:40 PM
I sure do not want the Broncos to end up after next year's season, like the Ravens did this year, who gave most of their money to Flacco, which resulted in losing key players, and ending up being a terrible team. I have to believe that both Peyton and Champ would renegotiate their contracts, to keep all of the players here. It's not like either one of them are in the early years of their careers and want to get as much money as they possibly can.

Northman
01-29-2014, 04:45 PM
Much easier to replace Moreno than Decker IMO. Young WRs almost always struggle because there is such a big learning curve and the position is so nuanced in the NFL - especially to play in a Manning offense.

RBs are plug and play.


All this. ^

claymore
01-29-2014, 04:46 PM
We don't lose anything if the other team agrees to pay his guaranteed money.

But I guess I'm confused as to why you are only looking at while Manning is here. I don't think Elway is looking purely for next year and only next year.

Im looking at both scenarios. Keeping clady doesnt do us any good now. If we can lock up DRC, Harris, etc... That will help with our present/future. If we could get a 2nd for Clady, that would also help with our present/future.

Northman
01-29-2014, 04:46 PM
I like Decker's game. He is physically imposing. I think he's taken an excessive amount of criticism from Broncos fans.

You are killing it in this thread dude.

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 04:46 PM
Good luck getting Peyton to restructure.

I'll let everyone else argue it, but Decker just isn't a 10 million dollar receiver for any team but ours. I wouldn't pay that to keep him

claymore
01-29-2014, 04:48 PM
Good luck getting Peyton to restructure.

I'll let everyone else argue it, but Decker just isn't a 10 million dollar receiver for any team but ours. I wouldn't pay that to keep him

PFM, DT, and JT make our offense go. All others are replaceable IMO.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 04:49 PM
Good luck getting Peyton to restructure.

I'll let everyone else argue it, but Decker just isn't a 10 million dollar receiver for any team but ours. I wouldn't pay that to keep him

Yeah... Peyton doesn't seem to restructure.

I know you have a much lesser opinion of Decker than I do, but his size, speed, and route running is something that is hard to find and not easily replaced.

Northman
01-29-2014, 04:51 PM
I sure do not want the Broncos to end up after next year's season, like the Ravens did this year, who gave most of their money to Flacco, which resulted in losing key players, and ending up being a terrible team. I have to believe that both Peyton and Champ would renegotiate their contracts, to keep all of the players here. It's not like either one of them are in the early years of their careers and want to get as much money as they possibly can.

Would be nice Carol but dont really see it happening.

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 04:51 PM
Good luck getting Peyton to restructure.

I'll let everyone else argue it, but Decker just isn't a 10 million dollar receiver for any team but ours. I wouldn't pay that to keep him

he might not be in fact.

Buff
01-29-2014, 04:51 PM
Good luck getting Peyton to restructure.

I'll let everyone else argue it, but Decker just isn't a 10 million dollar receiver for any team but ours. I wouldn't pay that to keep him

Why? I just don't see how you can still hold your position given how the year has played out. We found the formula.

Northman
01-29-2014, 04:52 PM
Yeah... Peyton doesn't seem to restructure.

I know you have a much lesser opinion of Decker than I do, but his size, speed, and route running is something that is hard to find and not easily replaced.

Yeeeeep.

Northman
01-29-2014, 04:52 PM
Why? I just don't see how you can still hold your position given how the year has played out. We found the formula.

He just doesnt care for Decker. lol

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 04:54 PM
Why? I just don't see how you can still hold your position given how the year has played out. We found the formula.

I think it's an interesting consideration. but yeah, it is a nice formula this year. could be 14,15. I will change my name to broncofan12212224323397981415. Get it?

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 04:55 PM
He just doesnt care for Decker. lol

I love decker for the same reason Buff does, he's a tough imposing receiver. I don't think he's as irreplaceable as he suggests though.

claymore
01-29-2014, 04:57 PM
Why? I just don't see how you can still hold your position given how the year has played out. We found the formula.

The formula is PFM. When you pay that much for a QB you have to take advantage of his ability to make everyone else around him better. We might not get exact production from a lesser WR, but we will get very similar production.

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 04:58 PM
Good luck getting Peyton to restructure.

I'll let everyone else argue it, but Decker just isn't a 10 million dollar receiver for any team but ours. I wouldn't pay that to keep him

Yeah... Peyton doesn't seem to restructure.

I know you have a much lesser opinion of Decker than I do, but his size, speed, and route running is something that is hard to find and not easily replaced.

I like Decker and would love to keep him. But I dont think that luxury is worth having if it taps into the resources needed to re-sign DRC, Miller, DT, JT, etc...which it will. I think without Decker, we are still a very imposing offense. Imagine adding a top 10-15 defense to that.

Northman
01-29-2014, 05:00 PM
I love decker for the same reason Buff does, he's a tough imposing receiver. I don't think he's as irreplaceable as he suggests though.

Any receiver on this squad is replaceable when you have Peyton Manning. They just are, it isnt exclusive to Deck. But you do have to consider the future post Manning and right now i think it is much easier to replace Moreno (as much as i have come around to loving what he has done the last year and a half) than you would with Decker. Having a group of receivers that you have chemistry with is important even for a young QB like Oz. So going forward the core that i would like to see remain would be Deck, DT, and JT. Welker isnt worth keeping around after this year because of age and being banged up a lot. Caldwell? He's fine if you have a HOF QB but i doubt out of the gate that Oz would get much production from him as Caldwell is a journeyman receiver. I just think its imperative to keep the guys who produce and have the most experience playing together going foward.

Northman
01-29-2014, 05:02 PM
I like Decker and would love to keep him. But I dont think that luxury is worth having if it taps into the resources needed to re-sign DRC, Miller, DT, JT, etc...which it will. I think without Decker, we are still a very imposing offense. Imagine adding a top 10-15 defense to that.

I dont even think the defense needs that much of an overhaul. Our biggest problem this year has been one guy missing games to off the field stupidity and injuries. If we can keep the defense healthy i think we would see a much better performance.

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 05:04 PM
Good luck getting Peyton to restructure.

I'll let everyone else argue it, but Decker just isn't a 10 million dollar receiver for any team but ours. I wouldn't pay that to keep him

Why? I just don't see how you can still hold your position given how the year has played out. We found the formula.

We had a pretty good formula last year without a top slot guy or top TE. My point is, the formula also works with 3 guns as well. Now if you tell me Welker is retiring or being released due to concussions, then I look harder at keeping Decker.

At the end of the day we cant seriously expect to have another record breaking season on offense next year. Especially with the schedule we'll have. So improving the defense and creating cap room for other players would be a priority for me.

Just my business opinion. Has nothing to do with dislike for Decker

Mike
01-29-2014, 05:04 PM
Any receiver on this squad is replaceable when you have Peyton Manning. They just are, it isnt exclusive to Deck. But you do have to consider the future post Manning and right now i think it is much easier to replace Moreno (as much as i have come around to loving what he has done the last year and a half) than you would with Decker. Having a group of receivers that you have chemistry with is important even for a young QB like Oz. So going forward the core that i would like to see remain would be Deck, DT, and JT. Welker isnt worth keeping around after this year because of age and being banged up a lot. Caldwell? He's fine if you have a HOF QB but i doubt out of the gate that Oz would get much production from him as Caldwell is a journeyman receiver. I just think its imperative to keep the guys who produce and have the most experience playing together going foward.

Strapping the Broncos with a heavy contract for a 2nd WR is not great post-Manning either though. I like Decker and would love to see him back, but he is a luxury we won't be able to afford, IMO. I think KC or Oak make a run at him and the market will be too high for Denver to match if they want to get better at other positions.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 05:04 PM
I like Decker and would love to keep him. But I dont think that luxury is worth having if it taps into the resources needed to re-sign DRC, Miller, DT, JT, etc...which it will. I think without Decker, we are still a very imposing offense. Imagine adding a top 10-15 defense to that.

Welker and Manning will be gone after next year. What would you rather have after Manning for a young QB...DT and JT...or JT, DT, and Decker? that is a HUGE difference. With the injuries we had to the defense this year, we were still able to place people in, and are better now than earlier in the season.

When our safeties are healthy, and Champ is gone (use money to sign DRC).... Von is back, our DTs are back, our safeties are back, Harris is back again.... our LT is back, our Center is back.. that gives more depth across the entire OL.... fill in with guys that we draft and sign, and I think we have a team to move forward with.

We are going to lose players because as a Super Bowl team, FA's get more money. We will have to limit those, and maybe Decker is that guy. But I would absolutely keep him. Decker is more important than Welker...imo.

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 05:07 PM
I like Decker and would love to keep him. But I dont think that luxury is worth having if it taps into the resources needed to re-sign DRC, Miller, DT, JT, etc...which it will. I think without Decker, we are still a very imposing offense. Imagine adding a top 10-15 defense to that.

I dont even think the defense needs that much of an overhaul. Our biggest problem this year has been one guy missing games to off the field stupidity and injuries. If we can keep the defense healthy i think we would see a much better performance.

We desperately need a MLB and safeties. As well as another corner if Champ retires. Then...who rushes the passer on the line if Phillips isnt back? Really going to put our eggs in the Quanterrus basket?

Slick
01-29-2014, 05:07 PM
The chemistry this offense has developed will probably be a factor. If Peyton does come back next year, John is not going to be able to look Peyton in the eye if he lets one of his best WR's and a RB who's been his safety valve/blitz picker upper get away.

I think as long as Peyton is in Denver, John will have to spend more money on offense than defense. When Peyton hangs it up, we might see the money more equally distributed.

CoachChaz
01-29-2014, 05:12 PM
I like Decker and would love to keep him. But I dont think that luxury is worth having if it taps into the resources needed to re-sign DRC, Miller, DT, JT, etc...which it will. I think without Decker, we are still a very imposing offense. Imagine adding a top 10-15 defense to that.

Welker and Manning will be gone after next year. What would you rather have after Manning for a young QB...DT and JT...or JT, DT, and Decker? that is a HUGE difference. With the injuries we had to the defense this year, we were still able to place people in, and are better now than earlier in the season.

When our safeties are healthy, and Champ is gone (use money to sign DRC).... Von is back, our DTs are back, our safeties are back, Harris is back again.... our LT is back, our Center is back.. that gives more depth across the entire OL.... fill in with guys that we draft and sign, and I think we have a team to move forward with.

We are going to lose players because as a Super Bowl team, FA's get more money. We will have to limit those, and maybe Decker is that guy. But I would absolutely keep him. Decker is more important than Welker...imo.

Champ has to retire now if we're using that money on DRC. Safety is a hole. Moore may never play again, Adams is gone and Duke couldn't cover me. But assuming it worked your way, we still have a hole at MLB and DE if Phillips leaves.

But I agree...I'd rather release Welker and keep Decker. Just don't think it will happen

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-29-2014, 05:18 PM
I think Welker's money is all gauranteed, so releasing him doesn't make sense.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 05:29 PM
Champ has to retire now if we're using that money on DRC.

I think we cut him.

DenBronx
01-29-2014, 05:33 PM
We must keep Eric Decker and DT together on this offense. We are very explosive with these guys. If that means Knowson and Woody being on the outside looking in then so be it. I would rather see a record breaking offense each year.

Now, I suggested trading Clady a couple of weeks ago because I am not so sure he will ever be the same. Plus Clark has been outstanding. Manning is going to make everyone look good anyway, from WRs to Rbs to even the OL. We could gain a very high draft pick plus get out of that huge cap hit. I know that isnt a popular idea with most fans but its still possible.

TXBRONC
01-29-2014, 05:35 PM
RB's are not plug and play in this offense. Even Ball, who by all accounts is very intelligent, struggled the first half of the season. If Ball misses a few games next year, who steps in, Hillman, an unproven rookie?

I disagree for the most running backs are plug and play even in this offense. Just because Ball had some growing pains doesn't mean that every running back will.

TXBRONC
01-29-2014, 05:38 PM
I would agree...but again...no athlete has ever fully recovered from a Lisfranc injury. Who knows what happens.

I have heard it can take a year and sometime to recover but I've never heard that no one has ever fully recovered from that injury.

TXBRONC
01-29-2014, 05:41 PM
I sure do not want the Broncos to end up after next year's season, like the Ravens did this year, who gave most of their money to Flacco, which resulted in losing key players, and ending up being a terrible team. I have to believe that both Peyton and Champ would renegotiate their contracts, to keep all of the players here. It's not like either one of them are in the early years of their careers and want to get as much money as they possibly can.

Big list we have are not all big stars like the Ravens had.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-29-2014, 05:43 PM
The 16 Broncos who are eligible for unrestricted free agency: Decker, wide receiver; Moreno, running back; Beadles, offensive guard; Shaun Phillips, defensive end; Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, cornerback; Wesley Woodyard, linebacker; Mike Adams, safety; Robert Ayers, defensive end; Paris Lenon, linebacker; Andre Caldwell, wide receiver; Chris Kuper, offensive guard; Quentin Jammer, cornerback; Jeremy Mincey, defensive end; Michael Huff, safety; Steve Vallos, center-guard; and Winston Justice, offensive tackle.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24794027/broncos-16-players-about-become-free-agents

TXBRONC
01-29-2014, 05:48 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24794027/broncos-16-players-about-become-free-agents

Unfortunately Denver is going to have to pick and choose.

That said Elway and his staff seem have pretty good feel for how to sort through these things.

dogfish
01-29-2014, 06:08 PM
I think Welker's money is all gauranteed, so releasing him doesn't make sense.

they wouldn't release him anyway. . . dude's a well-respected vet who could have gone anywhere, and he chose to come here-- there's zero chance elway would turn around and cut him one year into a below-market two-year deal. . . that's not how our front offie operates, and it's why we're a destination franchise again, and will remain one even after manning's gone. . .

BroncoJoe
01-29-2014, 06:10 PM
I'm just not sure anyone will "break the bank" for Knowshon. In any other offense, he could be very average - at best. Hell - it took him three or four years to have his best season, which on paper, isn't much more than very average. On paper.

I love the kid, and hope he stays with a cap-friendly deal. If he leaves, I have a terrible feeling we'll miss his pass protection.

dogfish
01-29-2014, 06:11 PM
I'm just not sure anyone will "break the bank" for Knowshon. In any other offense, he could be very average - at best. Hell - it took him three or four years to have his best season, which on paper, isn't much more than very average. On paper.

I love the kid, and hope he stays with a cap-friendly deal. If he leaves, I have a terrible feeling we'll miss his pass protection.

i tend to suspect that he'll be back on a one-year deal once he sees how soft the market for him is. . .

tubby
01-29-2014, 06:13 PM
The salary cap is magic. They Broncos will be able to keep whoever they want to keep. I bet Moreno stays.

tubby
01-29-2014, 06:14 PM
i tend to suspect that he'll be back on a one-year deal once he sees how soft the market for him is. . .

2 year deal would be my guess. Hillman hits the street.

BroncoJoe
01-29-2014, 06:15 PM
Another thought - Elway and Manning (by accounts) are pretty close and share something few do - an "aging" QB on a talented team with the chance to do something special. Maybe Manning Ok's a restructure of his contract to free up cap money. Elway did it numerous times.

It's not like he needs the $$. I'd do it for a chance to become one of the few teams to repeat.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-29-2014, 06:44 PM
Another thought - Elway and Manning (by accounts) are pretty close and share something few do - an "aging" QB on a talented team with the chance to do something special. Maybe Manning Ok's a restructure of his contract to free up cap money. Elway did it numerous times.

It's not like he needs the $$. I'd do it for a chance to become one of the few teams to repeat.

I basically posted the same thing, and also threw in Champ doing the same thing, if Champ wants to play another year also.

DenBronx
01-29-2014, 06:55 PM
Jacksonville fans seem to want Moreno.


I doubt Moreno gets the kind of money people think he will get on the market. Reason is, because I think Moreno looks like an excellent fit for a Manning ran offense. The problem is there is only ONE PFM. If Manning loves him so much then it might ultimately be up to him to make sure he stays. Manning himself might have to give up a little $$$ to make it happen. If not, then I think Ball is going to have a huge year next year.

Ball most likely will take more snaps next year anyway.

Buff
01-29-2014, 07:02 PM
I like Decker and would love to keep him. But I dont think that luxury is worth having if it taps into the resources needed to re-sign DRC, Miller, DT, JT, etc...which it will. I think without Decker, we are still a very imposing offense. Imagine adding a top 10-15 defense to that.

Yeah, then we might make it to the Super Bowl! ;)

Buff
01-29-2014, 07:05 PM
We had a pretty good formula last year without a top slot guy or top TE. My point is, the formula also works with 3 guns as well. Now if you tell me Welker is retiring or being released due to concussions, then I look harder at keeping Decker.

At the end of the day we cant seriously expect to have another record breaking season on offense next year. Especially with the schedule we'll have. So improving the defense and creating cap room for other players would be a priority for me.

Just my business opinion. Has nothing to do with dislike for Decker

I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't think you can overstate how important it is for Manning to have a good rapport with his receivers... He's talked about how it takes years and years to get to the point where he feels truly comfortable with them.

Thus, from a roster construction standpoint, I think you have to overvalue Decker because of his value to THIS team and THIS system.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-29-2014, 07:31 PM
I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't think you can overstate how important it is for Manning to have a good rapport with his receivers... He's talked about how it takes years and years to get to the point where he feels truly comfortable with them.

Thus, from a roster construction standpoint, I think you have to overvalue Decker because of his value to THIS team and THIS system.

I'm inclined to agree, as much as I hate to admit it. I don't think Decker is a #1, but I can see Denver paying him fairly competitively to keep him here. However, the idea of trading Clady is just nonsense. :D

DenBronx
01-29-2014, 08:06 PM
Decker could be a #1 on alot of teams....alot of teams!

Car, Seattle, Oak, Jack, Wsh...I could keep going.

Steve Smith at this stage is not on Deckers level so don't even go there.


Decker gets under valued way too much and I suggest those that disagree to just look around the league.

Jsteve01
01-29-2014, 08:09 PM
Yes Bronx big white posession receivers that shine in single coverage and trip over there own feet in the open field are hard to come by...jk

DenBronx
01-29-2014, 08:27 PM
Yes Bronx big white posession receivers that shine in single coverage and trip over there own feet in the open field are hard to come by...jk

You mean like breaking off a 65 yard return before kicking the punter in the head THEN never fully regaining your balance? :)


Got it.

slim
01-29-2014, 08:28 PM
Decker could be a #1 on alot of teams....alot of teams!

.

Chile, please....

MOtorboat
01-29-2014, 08:33 PM
Chile, please....

After looking at the teams the Seahawks played, I don't think that's far from the truth.

Slick
01-29-2014, 08:37 PM
Yes Bronx big white posession receivers that shine in single coverage and trip over there own feet in the open field are hard to come by...jk

You can't really get away with adding just kidding when you say something like that.

Dzone
01-29-2014, 08:54 PM
You can't really get away with adding just kidding when you say something like that.
True. Thats like saying, "Honey, youre ass is fat...just kidding"

OrangeHoof
01-29-2014, 09:27 PM
A rough off-season blueprint:

1. Franchise DRC. Try to sign him to a multi-year deal that is somewhat backloaded.
2. Restructure Bailey or let him go.
3. Re-sign Phillips, Beadles, Ayers, Lenon
4. Allow Moreno, Decker, Woodyard to go in free agency.
5. Draft OL in first, LB in second, WR in third, RB in the fourth, defense after that.

I did not see Vickerson or Harris on the list provided here:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24794027/broncos-16-players-about-become-free-agents

That gives you:
Manning, Osweiler
Ball, CJ, #4 draft choice, Hillman
DT, Welker, #3 draft choice, etc
JT, Tamme, Green
Clady, Clark, Franklin, Vasquez, Beadles, #1 draft choice, etc
Ayers, Phillips, Knighton, Vickerson, Wolfe (?), Williams, etc
Miller, Lenon, Travathan, #2 draft choice, etc.
DRC, Harris, Moore, Ienacho, Bailey (?), etc.
Colquitt, Prater

Obviously, free agents and draft choices fill in the rest but you see the framework for an excellent team with most positions covered and strong enough defensive pieces to continue improving, particularly at key positions while, hopefully, staying under the cap.

Dapper Dan
01-29-2014, 09:32 PM
Moreno reminds me a little of McGahee. He has a few more seasons left, because he got a bit of a late start. He doesn't have a lot of miles on him.

dogfish
01-29-2014, 09:39 PM
You can't really get away with adding just kidding when you say something like that.

steve can. . . :D

Simple Jaded
01-29-2014, 09:40 PM
I don't think Vickerson is a FA, I don't think Clark is anywhere near as good as an 80% Ryan Clady, I don't think Decker gets the respect he's earned and I don't think Knowshon Moreno is the last RB on the planet who will ever be able to pass block ever again.

tubby
01-29-2014, 09:41 PM
http://grantland.com/features/super-bowl-swan-song/

TXBRONC
01-29-2014, 10:33 PM
Chile, please....

I think Rav is right Decker could be the number one several teams.

JPPT1974
01-29-2014, 11:43 PM
Well hate it that he won't return to the Broncos! Really was good for the team while it lasted.

topscribe
01-30-2014, 01:34 AM
Re-sign Moreno. Keep Moreno and Ball for season '14. Release Ronnie Hillman.
I was going to say something similar. It's all about production. Keep the producer.
.

topscribe
01-30-2014, 01:37 AM
Moreno reminds me a little of McGahee. He has a few more seasons left, because he got a bit of a late start. He doesn't have a lot of miles on him.
? He's only 26.
.

Edmonton Bronco Fan (2)
01-30-2014, 03:30 AM
If it comes down to one of Moreno or Decker I'd prefer to keep Deck and let Moreno go. Our deoth in the backfield makes it a little bit easier of a pill to swallow.

There will be a lot of tough decisions either way. Phillips, DRC and Decker are the priorities IMO.

Northman
01-30-2014, 05:59 AM
A rough off-season blueprint:

1. Franchise DRC. Try to sign him to a multi-year deal that is somewhat backloaded.
2. Restructure Bailey or let him go.
3. Re-sign Phillips, Beadles, Ayers, Lenon
4. Allow Moreno, Decker, Woodyard to go in free agency.
5. Draft OL in first, LB in second, WR in third, RB in the fourth, defense after that.

I did not see Vickerson or Harris on the list provided here:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24794027/broncos-16-players-about-become-free-agents

That gives you:
Manning, Osweiler
Ball, CJ, #4 draft choice, Hillman
DT, Welker, #3 draft choice, etc
JT, Tamme, Green
Clady, Clark, Franklin, Vasquez, Beadles, #1 draft choice, etc
Ayers, Phillips, Knighton, Vickerson, Wolfe (?), Williams, etc
Miller, Lenon, Travathan, #2 draft choice, etc.
DRC, Harris, Moore, Ienacho, Bailey (?), etc.
Colquitt, Prater

Obviously, free agents and draft choices fill in the rest but you see the framework for an excellent team with most positions covered and strong enough defensive pieces to continue improving, particularly at key positions while, hopefully, staying under the cap.

I like a lot of what you posted but why on God's green earth would you keep Welk over Decker? Decker has totally outpayed Wes this year as well as been far more healthier and reliable on the field. Why on earth would you keep a player that is hardly going to see playing time? Doesnt make any sense. :confused:

Hawgdriver
01-30-2014, 06:18 AM
This is a motivational ploy by Denver executives. They realize the game will be won or lost based on how well Moreno (and Ball--the competitor) runs. This gives him a little fire to put it all on the line in the championship game.

Dreadnought
01-30-2014, 07:07 AM
If it comes down to one of Moreno or Decker I'd prefer to keep Deck and let Moreno go. Our deoth in the backfield makes it a little bit easier of a pill to swallow.

There will be a lot of tough decisions either way. Phillips, DRC and Decker are the priorities IMO.

I'd love to be able to keep Moreno...never thought I'd say that. Part of it though is I have gotten increasingly excited over Montee Ball. I get just a little more stoked when he is on the field, and there are only so many carries to be had on this team.

DenBronx
01-30-2014, 07:29 AM
I got these two Moreno jerseys for sale or trade.

TXBRONC
01-30-2014, 07:56 AM
Jacksonville fans seem to want Moreno.


I doubt Moreno gets the kind of money people think he will get on the market. Reason is, because I think Moreno looks like an excellent fit for a Manning ran offense. The problem is there is only ONE PFM. If Manning loves him so much then it might ultimately be up to him to make sure he stays. Manning himself might have to give up a little $$$ to make it happen. If not, then I think Ball is going to have a huge year next year.

Ball most likely will take more snaps next year anyway.

I agree, I doubt Moreno will get the kind of money some think he will get on the open market. If Manning restructures his contract to fit other players under the cap I doubt it will because he's asked. I also having feeling that the chance are good that Moreno is going be a Bronco next season.

If Moreno does return I don't know if Ball would get more snaps than Moreno but I could see it evening out.

Jsteve01
01-30-2014, 09:47 AM
I was joking about the tripping over himself but let's be real. Decker has seen single coverage all year long. He's a very solid player but I don't see him as a number one and he will probably command fringe one dollars. No way you can pay him that kind of coin when you've got legit number ones like DT and Julius who will need to get paid after next season. If the deal is affordable I'd do it, but I'm not going out and breaking the bank when there are better players at the same position who need to get paid in a year. North, Welker vs Decker conversation is well worth having. Decker has outperformed Welker in the stat sheet this year but and it's a big but did you notice how our 3rd down conversions dropped with Welker off the field for 3 games? You can't overstate his value in short yardage and late down situations. He cannot be covered by nickel corners and backers.

TXBRONC
01-30-2014, 10:46 AM
I was joking about the tripping over himself but let's be real. Decker has seen single coverage all year long. He's a very solid player but I don't see him as a number one and he will probably command fringe one dollars. No way you can pay him that kind of coin when you've got legit number ones like DT and Julius who will need to get paid after next season. If the deal is affordable I'd do it, but I'm not going out and breaking the bank when there are better players at the same position who need to get paid in a year. North, Welker vs Decker conversation is well worth having. Decker has outperformed Welker in the stat sheet this year but and it's a big but did you notice how our 3rd down conversions dropped with Welker off the field for 3 games? You can't overstate his value in short yardage and late down situations. He cannot be covered by nickel corners and backers.

That really isn't all surprising that 3rd conversions dropped off a little bit when Welker. Take a piece of the puzzle like out line up that opponents can defend you differently. If either D. Thomas or Decker had been the one to miss time I bet the offense would have suffered.

Buff
01-30-2014, 10:48 AM
This offense has proven to be at its best when we have all of the pass catching weapons: Thomas, Decker, Welker and Julius. They all complement one another. If I were the GM, I'd do absolutely everything in my power to leave that WR corps intact as long as Manning is here.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-30-2014, 10:49 AM
I like a lot of what you posted but why on God's green earth would you keep Welk over Decker? Decker has totally outpayed Wes this year as well as been far more healthier and reliable on the field. Why on earth would you keep a player that is hardly going to see playing time? Doesnt make any sense. :confused:

Why would you say he's not going to see playing time? Besides that, Welker's contract is gauranteed.

slim
01-30-2014, 11:00 AM
After looking at the teams the Seahawks played, I don't think that's far from the truth.

Your ass is fat.

j/k

Dzone
01-30-2014, 11:03 AM
I remember when I was on the "Moreno is a bust, cut his ass" bandwagon. He seemed injury prone and made out of glass, a wasted 1st round pick. He was considered a Mcdaniels mistake. His comeback is only 2nd to mannings. Moreno is a man. He is an inspiration. I love me some Knowshon Moreno.

MOtorboat
01-30-2014, 11:24 AM
Your ass is fat.

j/k

Please see me in the Lounge.

TIA.

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 11:26 AM
I think Rav is right Decker could be the number one several teams.

is the definition of no. 1, no. 2,...etc. receiver the one the ball is most commonly thrown to, the routes run by the receiver, or both? that is still a bit confusing to me.

slim
01-30-2014, 11:26 AM
Please see me in the Lounge.

TIA.

Oh. I was just piggy backing on dzones joke a few pages back. I thought it was funny

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 11:32 AM
Oh. I was just piggy backing on dzones joke a few pages back. I thought it was funny

lol, Mo intimidated you Slim. Don't let that walking fire hydrant do that to you. c'mon, you're better than that

slim
01-30-2014, 11:34 AM
lol, Mo intimidated you Slim. Don't let that walking fire hydrant do that to you. c'mon, you're better than that

No he didn't. He is my e-wife.

GEM
01-30-2014, 11:34 AM
Jacksonville fans seem to want Moreno.


I doubt Moreno gets the kind of money people think he will get on the market. Reason is, because I think Moreno looks like an excellent fit for a Manning ran offense. The problem is there is only ONE PFM. If Manning loves him so much then it might ultimately be up to him to make sure he stays. Manning himself might have to give up a little $$$ to make it happen. If not, then I think Ball is going to have a huge year next year.

Ball most likely will take more snaps next year anyway.


I'm not worried about Ball, I'm worried about who comes in to spell him. Hillman? ****, yea right. Ugh...(and I'm so freaking surprised that the thought of Moreno leaving is bugging me after my history of disliking him)

Buff
01-30-2014, 11:37 AM
I'm not worried about Ball, I'm worried about who comes in to spell him. Hillman? ****, yea right. Ugh...(and I'm so freaking surprised that the thought of Moreno leaving is bugging me after my history of disliking him)

But we would have said the same thing about Moreno two years ago. I'm not ready to give up on Hillman completely just yet.

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 11:37 AM
I'm not worried about Ball, I'm worried about who comes in to spell him. Hillman? ****, yea right. Ugh...(and I'm so freaking surprised that the thought of Moreno leaving is bugging me after my history of disliking him)

ha ha to you guys. I wasn't all Moreno a few years back, but I wasn't hating on him like ya'all.

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 11:39 AM
But we would have said the same thing about Moreno two years ago. I'm not ready to give up on Hillman completely just yet.

I was proud of Hillman in the playoffs last year. my only concern with him in the long run is his size, not sure why, he just seems like a scat back which is fine but hes unsufficient without an effective compliment.

MOtorboat
01-30-2014, 11:40 AM
ha ha to you guys. I wasn't all Moreno a few years back, but I wasn't hating on him like ya'all.

If anyone's ass is fat here, it's Buff's.

Buff
01-30-2014, 11:41 AM
is the definition of no. 1, no. 2,...etc. receiver the one the ball is most commonly thrown to, the routes run by the receiver, or both? that is still a bit confusing to me.

It's usually a talent thing. Usually #1 WRs have some trait which makes them a mismatch against defensive backs - speed, size, route running abilities, etc.

Decker is above average in all of those areas - but doesn't blow anyone away with one skill. So there is debate around whether he is truly cut out to be a #1 WR or if he is a solid #2. The idea being that a #2 WR succeeds in part because the #1 WR is going to draw coverage from the #1 DB. Make sense?

GEM
01-30-2014, 11:41 AM
But we would have said the same thing about Moreno two years ago. I'm not ready to give up on Hillman completely just yet.

Kid scares me each time he touches the field. He's too freaking small and he has loose hands. Not a good combo.

Buff
01-30-2014, 11:43 AM
Kid scares me each time he touches the field. He's too freaking small and he has loose hands. Not a good combo.

Yeah, but Moreno was awful too and put the ball on the ground too much. I'm holding out some hope for little Ronnie.

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 11:45 AM
It's usually a talent thing. Usually #1 WRs have some trait which makes them a mismatch against defensive backs - speed, size, route running abilities, etc.

Decker is above average in all of those areas - but doesn't blow anyone away with one skill. So there is debate around whether he is truly cut out to be a #1 WR or if he is a solid #2. The idea being that a #2 WR succeeds in part because the #1 WR is going to draw coverage from the #1 DB. Make sense?

so basically an elite player in that position. yeah, makes sense. like Decker is above average in getting open, catching, but not so much on YACs maybe. I can see what you are saying Buff, thanks

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 11:46 AM
Yeah, but Moreno was awful too and put the ball on the ground too much. I'm holding out some hope for little Ronnie.

all (or maybe a lot) these rookie backs seem to go through that type of growing pain. putting timing, vision, ball security, tempo... all together in the NFL. takes some game reps to work through it. I'm with you buff

slim
01-30-2014, 11:47 AM
If anyone's ass is fat here, it's Buff's.

You are supposed to say J/K at the end.

slim
01-30-2014, 11:48 AM
Hillman is too small to be a RB1. I'm not sure how he can overcome that...his frame will only take so much weight.

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 11:50 AM
Hillman is too small to be a RB1. I'm not sure how he can overcome that...his frame will only take so much weight.

your frame takes everything you throw at it you big fatass

slim
01-30-2014, 11:51 AM
your frame takes everything you throw at it you big fatass

I hate tax season. I am gonna need some new pants.

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 11:59 AM
I hate tax season. I am gonna need some new pants.

I'll give you some pants fatass

slim
01-30-2014, 12:01 PM
I'll give you some pants fatass

I don't know what that means.

MOtorboat
01-30-2014, 12:03 PM
You are supposed to say J/K at the end.

I think it's funnier when I don't apologize.

Dzone
01-30-2014, 12:03 PM
Look at that strip joint pic of Hillman. Does he even work out? Ive seen bigger arms on a girl

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 12:03 PM
I don't know what that means.

me either, and sorry for going off on you there. it's out of my system

slim
01-30-2014, 12:06 PM
I think it's funnier when I don't apologize.

Fair enough.

GEM
01-30-2014, 12:23 PM
Yeah, but Moreno was awful too and put the ball on the ground too much. I'm holding out some hope for little Ronnie.

Moreno's issue wasn't fumbles, that was McGahee. Moreno's was not seeing and hitting the hole, dancing in the backfield.

Dapper Dan
01-30-2014, 12:25 PM
Moreno's issue wasn't fumbles, that was McGahee. Moreno's was not seeing and hitting the hole, dancing in the backfield.

Moreno has been trashed for everything. Dancing. Fumbling. Getting hurt.

Dapper Dan
01-30-2014, 12:27 PM
? He's only 26.
.

I know. Someone said Moreno peaked this season. That's basically saying he will be on a downward slide. I disagree. RBs best years last about 5-6 years. I think Moreno can still have at least 3-4 seasons at least as good as 2013.

Ravage!!!
01-30-2014, 12:27 PM
Moreno has been trashed for everything. Dancing. Fumbling. Getting hurt.

and before this season, rightfully so.

GEM
01-30-2014, 12:29 PM
I just checked Hillman vs Moreno. They are even on fumbles for 2 years the first 2 years of each career, so maybe? The stats also don't take into account preseason or postseason, so not sure about that, though I know Hillman lost one in the postseason. I just don't see it with him. He's too freaking small to play. He's probably going to be here either way, but I honestly think it's a wasted roster spot and they are going to have to have another RB to back up Ball.

GEM
01-30-2014, 12:29 PM
Moreno has been trashed for everything. Dancing. Fumbling. Getting hurt.

I know. I used to trash the kid.

Buff
01-30-2014, 12:29 PM
Moreno's issue wasn't fumbles, that was McGahee. Moreno's was not seeing and hitting the hole, dancing in the backfield.

He had fumbling issues among others. That's ultimately what led to him being inactive.

Ravage!!!
01-30-2014, 12:31 PM
I know. Someone said Moreno peaked this season. That's basically saying he will be on a downward slide. I disagree. RBs best years last about 5-6 years. I think Moreno can still have at least 3-4 seasons at least as good as 2013.

Buff said that. I think Buff is saying that without Manning's passing attack, specifically the NFL's highest and most prolific passing attack... a passing attack that kept the boxes light in order to defend 4, double-digit receiving TD, receiving threats.... that Moreno won't have as good of a season again. COnsidering he's not a power back, and he certainly isn't speed, it very well be his best season ever. It would seem that is Buff's opinion, and his point. At least, that's what I took from it.

GEM
01-30-2014, 12:32 PM
He had fumbling issues among others. That's ultimately what led to him being inactive.

He had 2 his first season, 2 his second season, 1 his third and none this year. I don't remember his fumbling issues, I remember his dance behind the line and not seeing a wide open hole if it jumped out and slapped him. :laugh: But that's on me, because the fumbles were there. Sorry. :)

Northman
01-30-2014, 12:47 PM
they wouldn't release him anyway. . . dude's a well-respected vet who could have gone anywhere, and he chose to come here-- there's zero chance elway would turn around and cut him one year into a below-market two-year deal. . . that's not how our front offie operates, and it's why we're a destination franchise again, and will remain one even after manning's gone. . .


Very true, unless Elway and company think he might be too injury prone to keep. But, your probably right and another thing that could be a possibility is maybe trading DT (cant wait for the flaming on this one) while his stock is high. We could certainly get more in a trade for DT as opposed to getting nothing if Deck walks. But even if DT is gone you still have JT, Deck, and Welker to make another run and maybe just maybe a trade with DT could score some quality defensive players.

Lancane
01-30-2014, 12:50 PM
Moreno will have a choice, to either take an average deal to return or to test the market and shoot for top dollar. We have no idea, none whatsoever of what Moreno will choose to do. I believe Moreno will have trouble finding someone willing to give him Chris Johnson type money with only one outstanding season under his belt, someone might but it will not be the Broncos, of that I'm relatively positive about. The Broncos have two, back-to-back off-seasons coming up that have a combined thirteen starters who's contracts will be coming to an end, that is mind boggling for any one franchise to face. Offensively the Broncos will remain in pretty good shape, Moreno is joined by Eric Decker and Zane Beadles as starting offensive players will be Free Agents, it's more of the defensive free agents that will cause a stir and likewise a daunting task of maintaining for Elway and Company. Rodgers-Cromartie, Lenon, Phillips, Woodyard, Ayers, Ihenacho, Adams, Unrein, Carter and Harris headline the defensive free agents the Broncos will have to deal with come the off-season.

Bailey is likely to be cut if he doesn't retire, which allows the Broncos to give a long-term deal to DRC or they may tag him if a deal can not be made. Decker will likely receive a new contract as well, those two are likely the priority signings for Denver come the start of off-season. They'll likely try and seal up one year deals with Lenon, Phillips and Adams while making a bigger effort to ink Ihenacho to a longer deal along with Beadles, but not sure that will play in the Broncos' favor. Come the draft I expect the Broncos are going to need defensive ends, a middle linebacker, offensive lineman and defensive backs.

dogfish
01-30-2014, 12:56 PM
Very true, unless Elway and company think he might be too injury prone to keep. But, your probably right and another thing that could be a possibility is maybe trading DT (cant wait for the flaming on this one) while his stock is high. We could certainly get more in a trade for DT as opposed to getting nothing if Deck walks. But even if DT is gone you still have JT, Deck, and Welker to make another run and maybe just maybe a trade with DT could score some quality defensive players.

come on, man-- we're not trading DT. . . :lol:

Northman
01-30-2014, 12:58 PM
come on, man-- we're not trading DT. . . :lol:

Didnt say we were, just saying it would make some sense as right now Manning makes any receiver look good. Or so i have heard on here.

GEM
01-30-2014, 12:59 PM
Didnt say we were, just saying it would make some sense as right now Manning makes any receiver look good. Or so i have heard on here.

In a short amount of time, Manning won't be here to make them look good, then you're going to need real talent.

Northman
01-30-2014, 01:03 PM
In a short amount of time, Manning won't be here to make them look good, then you're going to need real talent.


If thats the case than you dont let Decker walk. He's way better than most of the 2nd tier receivers out there. But, i was going off the idea that Coachchaz said about if Deck walks than the offense (according to him) would still be lethal but maybe only score 25 pts a game as opposed to 35. His idea was too build up the defense while keeping the offense still somewhat intact to make another run for a title. Which is why i said that trading DT (while hurting in the long run) would make more sense than just letting a guy walk for nothing.

Ravage!!!
01-30-2014, 01:05 PM
guess we should keep that guy, Clady, as well.

dogfish
01-30-2014, 01:09 PM
guess we should keep that guy, Clady, as well.

it's already been suggested that we trade him also. . . to free up cap space, of course. . .


it's a damn good thing we're about to win the super bowl. . . people are going to freak the F out here when some of these free agents start leaving. . . i'm going to take a board hiatus once the off-season starts, it's going to be a blood bath around here. . .

GEM
01-30-2014, 01:11 PM
If thats the case than you dont let Decker walk. He's way better than most of the 2nd tier receivers out there. But, i was going off the idea that Coachchaz said about if Deck walks than the offense (according to him) would still be lethal but maybe only score 25 pts a game as opposed to 35. His idea was too build up the defense while keeping the offense still somewhat intact to make another run for a title. Which is why i said that trading DT (while hurting in the long run) would make more sense than just letting a guy walk for nothing.

Decker isn't DT. Sometimes you have to make choices and if it's between DT and Decker...sorry Decker.

GEM
01-30-2014, 01:12 PM
it's already been suggested that we trade him also. . . to free up cap space, of course. . .


it's a damn good thing we're about to win the super bowl. . . people are going to freak the F out here when some of these free agents start leaving. . . i'm going to take a board hiatus once the off-season starts, it's going to be a blood bath around here. . .

I only high 5'd the truth to your post, not your hiatus...that's gonna suck. :(

Lancane
01-30-2014, 01:16 PM
Decker isn't DT. Sometimes you have to make choices and if it's between DT and Decker...sorry Decker.

Decker is a fan favorite, Manning loves him as does the organization and the team in my honest opinion would allow every defensive free agent not named Rodgers-Cromartie go to retain Decker, even Moreno would likely be sacrificed for the Broncos to keep him.

GEM
01-30-2014, 01:17 PM
Decker is a fan favorite, Manning loves him as does the organization and the team in my honest opinion would allow every defensive free agent not named Rodgers-Cromartie go to retain Decker, even Moreno would likely be sacrificed for the Broncos to keep him.

I'd love to retain him, but the item I quoted put DT vs. Decker...DT all day errrrrryday!

Northman
01-30-2014, 01:18 PM
Decker isn't DT. Sometimes you have to make choices and if it's between DT and Decker...sorry Decker.

Probably most likely.

Northman
01-30-2014, 01:19 PM
. . i'm going to take a board hiatus once the off-season starts, it's going to be a blood bath around here. . .

Dont let the door hit ya on the way out...... .:)

slim
01-30-2014, 01:32 PM
it's already been suggested that we trade him also. . . to free up cap space, of course. . .


it's a damn good thing we're about to win the super bowl. . . people are going to freak the F out here when some of these free agents start leaving. . . i'm going to take a board hiatus once the off-season starts, it's going to be a blood bath around here. . .

Why would people freak out? #7 has earned the benefit of the doubt. Whatever he does should be fine.

VonDoom
01-30-2014, 01:46 PM
it's already been suggested that we trade him also. . . to free up cap space, of course. . .


it's a damn good thing we're about to win the super bowl. . . people are going to freak the F out here when some of these free agents start leaving. . . i'm going to take a board hiatus once the off-season starts, it's going to be a blood bath around here. . .

I don't know if this is true. If we win this game, for me personally, this is going to be the best offseason ever no matter what we do.

topscribe
01-30-2014, 02:03 PM
This offense has proven to be at its best when we have all of the pass catching weapons: Thomas, Decker, Welker and Julius. They all complement one another. If I were the GM, I'd do absolutely everything in my power to leave that WR corps intact as long as Manning is here.
I saluted you because you are correct with your comment.

And you spelled "complement" correctly. :D
.

claymore
01-30-2014, 02:17 PM
I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't think you can overstate how important it is for Manning to have a good rapport with his receivers... He's talked about how it takes years and years to get to the point where he feels truly comfortable with them.

Thus, from a roster construction standpoint, I think you have to overvalue Decker because of his value to THIS team and THIS system.
We were the #1 seed last year and everyone was new to Manning. There was no rapport. If we lost both DT and JT, I would be nervous, but losing Decker is a non factor. Paying him brings us very little value. We are weaker at RB. If we are going to overpay someone it has to be Moreno.

tubby
01-30-2014, 02:21 PM
We were the #1 seed last year and everyone was new to Manning. There was no rapport. If we lost both DT and JT, I would be nervous, but losing Decker is a non factor. Paying him brings us very little value. We are weaker at RB. If we are going to overpay someone it has to be Moreno.

I see no reason why Decker and Moreno don't both stay. 606 points, they'll keep the band together.

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 02:22 PM
tubby, sometimes I dont' get your vernacular. are you too cool for school?

Rex
01-30-2014, 02:23 PM
tubby, sometimes think about you and a dalmation when I masturbate.

Gross

tubby
01-30-2014, 02:23 PM
tubby, sometimes I dont' get your vernacular. are you too cool for school?

Is your dog French?

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 02:26 PM
Is your dog French?

no, but again, why do I feel like you are mocking me? I like Tubby, but not Tubby when Rex is around so much

Rex
01-30-2014, 02:27 PM
no, but again, why do I feel like you are mocking me? I like taking dogs from behind but not humans so much

Gross

claymore
01-30-2014, 02:30 PM
I see no reason why Decker and Moreno don't both stay. 606 points, they'll keep the band together.

I would love that. In order for that to happen we need to trim some fat elsewhere. Does anyone know if we will get comp picks for any of these players? I think that will affect who leaves as well.

Rex
01-30-2014, 02:32 PM
I would love that. The only think I would love more is if the big hairy guy at the gas station would finally make a move and bend me over the ice cream cooler like I have been dreaming about

Gross

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 02:34 PM
I like the points that you bring up Clay, especially the one in your pants

claymore
01-30-2014, 02:36 PM
Gross

I dont see whats wrong with enjoying some ice cream.

Rex
01-30-2014, 02:37 PM
I dont see whats wrong with enjoying some ice cream while getting rammed.

Gross

claymore
01-30-2014, 02:40 PM
Gross

Ice Cream Sandwich?

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 02:41 PM
Gross

oh you love it Rex, you know you do

Rex
01-30-2014, 02:43 PM
Ice Cream Sandwich?


You between 2 black guys?

claymore
01-30-2014, 02:48 PM
You between 2 black guys?

Sure, its a brave new world.

dogfish
01-30-2014, 02:49 PM
Why would people freak out? #7 has earned the benefit of the doubt. Whatever he does should be fine.

you must be new here. . .

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 02:54 PM
Hi my name is Rex. I don't really like football or the Denver Broncos, I just show up once in a while to make gay jokes about people while I jerk it off because I really need the homoerotic release

OrangeHoof
01-30-2014, 04:53 PM
I like a lot of what you posted but why on God's green earth would you keep Welk over Decker? Decker has totally outpayed Wes this year as well as been far more healthier and reliable on the field. Why on earth would you keep a player that is hardly going to see playing time? Doesnt make any sense. :confused:

Because Welker's not a free agent this year and Decker is. How can you say Welker is going to "hardly receive any playing time"? He's Manning's best set of hands (Decker is his worst). Either you aren't watching the same team I've seen every week or you've let your biases swing reality wildly out of proportion.

Do you understand why it was a huge deal that we signed Welker last spring? Do you understand why we're in the Super Bowl this year when we didn't go last year? Welker is one of the key ingredients because he converts third downs and sells out to move the chains.

Decker had a fine season but he's going to want more money than he's worth and we can find a WR in the 2nd or3rd who will handle it just as well. I'd even let Peyton draft the guy he wants. Moreno had an outstanding season but he's going to want to be paid for it and second contracts for most RBs become disasters.

What's best for the organization is to continue to rebuild the defense because once Peyton leaves, that's who will need to dominate.Most offensive skill guys are replaceable aside from the truly upper crust (Megatron, Fitzgerald, etc.) Paying top dollar to players like Decker and Moreno is fool's gold.

Dreadnought
01-30-2014, 06:31 PM
Because Welker's not a free agent this year and Decker is. How can you say Welker is going to "hardly receive any playing time"? He's Manning's best set of hands (Decker is his worst). Either you aren't watching the same team I've seen every week or you've let your biases swing reality wildly out of proportion.

Do you understand why it was a huge deal that we signed Welker last spring? Do you understand why we're in the Super Bowl this year when we didn't go last year? Welker is one of the key ingredients because he converts third downs and sells out to move the chains.

Decker had a fine season but he's going to want more money than he's worth and we can find a WR in the 2nd or3rd who will handle it just as well. I'd even let Peyton draft the guy he wants. Moreno had an outstanding season but he's going to want to be paid for it and second contracts for most RBs become disasters.

What's best for the organization is to continue to rebuild the defense because once Peyton leaves, that's who will need to dominate.Most offensive skill guys are replaceable aside from the truly upper crust (Megatron, Fitzgerald, etc.) Paying top dollar to players like Decker and Moreno is fool's gold.

Welker has the worst hands on the team, not Decker. Doesn't mean Welker isn't extremely valuable by any stretch. As for replacing Decker with a draft choice? With PMFM's smallish window? Dumb. We could as easily draft another Marcus Nash or Ashley lelie with a high pick. Decker has proven he's an elite NFL WR this season, period. He runs great routes, has good hands, blocks, is unselfish, is big, fast, physical, and gets good YAC. He understands PMFM, and his place in the offense, and doesn't get bent when DT gets a few more balls. Why on Earth screw with that?

Northman
01-30-2014, 06:46 PM
Welker has the worst hands on the team, not Decker. Doesn't mean Welker isn't extremely valuable by any stretch. As for replacing Decker with a draft choice? With PMFM's smallish window? Dumb. We could as easily draft another Marcus Nash or Ashley lelie with a high pick. Decker has proven he's an elite NFL WR this season, period. He runs great routes, has good hands, blocks, is unselfish, is big, fast, physical, and gets good YAC. He understands PMFM, and his place in the offense, and doesn't get bent when DT gets a few more balls. Why on Earth screw with that?

Couldnt of said any better. I mean, you dont have to go to far to give an example of Welker missing a wide open pass. I know all the receivers have their dropsies but the way some of these guys talk as if Decker is so effing bad it just cracks me up sometimes.

Broncolingus
01-30-2014, 06:50 PM
I hope we could keep them all, but alas, likely not...and God Bless Knowshon and the season he's had.

...certainly he's been one of the main reason Denver's playing for the Lombardi trophy this year.

Hopefully, the coaches can get Ball (and whomever the #2 will be - CJ?) up to speed on pass protection and blocking during the offseason...

I'm not sure why this is surprising to some (likely Moreno not staying)...

...esp. since Ball was drafted relatively high last year.

JMO...

Hawgdriver
01-30-2014, 10:48 PM
We were the #1 seed last year and everyone was new to Manning. There was no rapport. If we lost both DT and JT, I would be nervous, but losing Decker is a non factor. Paying him brings us very little value. We are weaker at RB. If we are going to overpay someone it has to be Moreno.

Man, you bring a great voice to this place, I really enjoy reading what you have to say.

Hawgdriver
01-30-2014, 10:49 PM
I hope we could keep them all, but alas, likely not...and God Bless Knowshon and the season he's had.

...certainly he's been one of the main reason Denver's playing for the Lombardi trophy this year.

Hopefully, the coaches can get Ball (and whomever the #2 will be - CJ?) up to speed on pass protection and blocking during the offseason...

I'm not sure why this is surprising to some (likely Moreno not staying)...

...esp. since Ball was drafted relatively high last year.

JMO...

I thnik dog ^5'd you solely for putting CJ above Hillman.

dogfish
01-30-2014, 11:46 PM
I thnik dog ^5'd you solely for putting CJ above Hillman.

the whole post was solid. . . besides, i don't need to put CJ ahead of hillman, the coaching staff already took care of that. . . :D

NightTerror218
01-31-2014, 12:35 AM
This season moreno is one of my fav players. His pure passion for aging has come out. His love for game. IMO he is a key part of the offense. 2nd MVP. Great blocker and threat in passing game. He is running hard to get hard yards. I wish he can be signed but I doubt it.

Rather let other players go to keep him and decker. Franchise DRC. Then work out small deals for others until DT JT and Von are locked up.

OrangeHoof
01-31-2014, 12:52 AM
A rough off-season blueprint:

1. Franchise DRC. Try to sign him to a multi-year deal that is somewhat backloaded.
2. Restructure Bailey or let him go.
3. Re-sign Phillips, Beadles, Ayers, Lenon
4. Allow Moreno, Decker, Woodyard to go in free agency.
5. Draft OL in first, LB in second, WR in third, RB in the fourth, defense after that.


Using the Mock Draft Simulator at Fansided.com, and following the formula in Step 5, I get the following:

1. OG David Yankey, Stanford
2. ILB Shayne Skov, Stanford
3. WR Paul Richardson, Colorado
4. RB Marion Grice, Arizona St.
5. CB Shaquille Richardson, Arizona
6. OLB Ron Powell, Florida
7. RB Tyler Gaffney, Stanford

Didn't mean to get so Pac-12. That's just the way it spat out. Anyway, Elway would probably be thrilled with all those Stanford guys.

My point being that you can replace Decker with Richardson and Moreno with Grice/Gaffney and your offense suffers little but your cap room improves greatly.

Jsteve01
01-31-2014, 01:29 AM
Hillman is too small to be a RB1. I'm not sure how he can overcome that...his frame will only take so much weight. When we drafted hillman over Turbin and Lamar Miller I was dumfounded plus we traded up to do it. I get that they saw something in him, but I've said since draft day two years ago that it was the biggest miss by this regime. Wouldn't have a second thought about letting Knowshon walk if either of those guys were on the roster.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-31-2014, 01:55 AM
When we drafted hillman over Turbin and Lamar Miller I was dumfounded plus we traded up to do it. I get that they saw something in him, but I've said since draft day two years ago that it was the biggest miss by this regime. Wouldn't have a second thought about letting Knowshon walk if either of those guys were on the roster.

Miller was drafted ahead of Hillman.

Northman
01-31-2014, 07:20 AM
My point being that you can replace Decker with Richardson and Moreno with Grice/Gaffney and your offense suffers little but your cap room improves greatly.

If they work out which is no guarantee.

TXBRONC
01-31-2014, 07:25 AM
Moreno's issue wasn't fumbles, that was McGahee. Moreno's was not seeing and hitting the hole, dancing in the backfield.

He also had a tendency not finish runs.

TXBRONC
01-31-2014, 07:30 AM
Decker isn't DT. Sometimes you have to make choices and if it's between DT and Decker...sorry Decker.

I don't think Elway will let Decker go without at least making an offer.

TXBRONC
01-31-2014, 07:41 AM
We were the #1 seed last year and everyone was new to Manning. There was no rapport. If we lost both DT and JT, I would be nervous, but losing Decker is a non factor. Paying him brings us very little value. We are weaker at RB. If we are going to overpay someone it has to be Moreno.

Very little value? Decker has back to back 1,000 yards seasons, back to back 80 plus catches, and back to back double digit touchdowns. Also since two of last three seasons he's lead the team in receiving touchdowns. So very little value? The numbers don't support that notion.

Broncolingus
01-31-2014, 09:01 AM
I thnik dog ^5'd you solely for putting CJ above Hillman.

Who told? :D

Dzone
01-31-2014, 10:40 AM
If Knowshon goes to an afc west team, he will make us pay. Hope that doesnt ever happen

GEM
01-31-2014, 10:50 AM
Decker jersey today! :rockon: Walked through our restaurant to check the sidewalks were shoveled...lots of hooting and hollering in a breakfast restaurant and everyone wearing orange and blue!! Yea BRONCOS!!!

claymore
01-31-2014, 10:54 AM
Very little value? Decker has back to back 1,000 yards seasons, back to back 80 plus catches, and back to back double digit touchdowns. Also since two of last three seasons he's lead the team in receiving touchdowns. So very little value? The numbers don't support that notion.

Manning will have a 1000 yard receiver on that side regardless of what their name is. Decker cannot have a 1000 yard season without a good QB. I dont think we should pay whoever plays that position top receiver money. It brings us very little value.

BroncoJoe
01-31-2014, 10:57 AM
Manning will have a 1000 yard receiver on that side regardless of what their name is. Decker cannot have a 1000 yard season without a good QB. I dont think we should pay whoever plays that position top receiver money. It brings us very little value.

I like Decker as much as anyone, but couldn't agree more with this.

MOtorboat
01-31-2014, 10:57 AM
Manning will have a 1000 yard receiver on that side regardless of what their name is. Decker cannot have a 1000 yard season without a good QB. I dont think we should pay whoever plays that position top receiver money. It brings us very little value.

He had a 600 yard season with Tebow. I don't see why he couldn't have a 1,000 yard season with a team like Minnesota or Cleveland where their quarterback is only marginally better.

CoachChaz
01-31-2014, 10:58 AM
It all comes down to the price tag. IF he is willing to sign a team friendly deal, then by all means, please bring him back. But if he wants #1 money, then adios.

BroncoJoe
01-31-2014, 10:58 AM
He had a 600 yard season with Tebow. I don't see why he couldn't have a 1,000 yard season with a team like Minnesota or Cleveland where their quarterback is only marginally better.

I think the point is more Manning will make nearly anyone a 1,000 yard receiver.

Northman
01-31-2014, 11:00 AM
Manning will have a 1000 yard receiver on that side regardless of what their name is. Decker cannot have a 1000 yard season without a good QB.

Apparently neither can DT. :lol:

Ravage!!!
01-31-2014, 11:05 AM
Manning will have a 1000 yard receiver on that side regardless of what their name is. Decker cannot have a 1000 yard season without a good QB. I dont think we should pay whoever plays that position top receiver money. It brings us very little value.

I completely disagree with this assessment of Decker's talent. 100% disagree.

GEM
01-31-2014, 11:07 AM
It all comes down to the price tag. IF he is willing to sign a team friendly deal, then by all means, please bring him back. But if he wants #1 money, then adios.

I don't quite get what the hang up is...it's not that he's not a good player, it's the price tag and how many price tags we have to pay for.

Northman
01-31-2014, 11:10 AM
I don't quite get what the hang up is...it's not that he's not a good player, it's the price tag and how many price tags we have to pay for.

Those guys are clearly saying he is not a good player, thats why they are justifying not paying him top money.

Ravage!!!
01-31-2014, 11:12 AM
I don't quite get what the hang up is...it's not that he's not a good player, it's the price tag and how many price tags we have to pay for.

If they are saying that he can't have a 1000 yrd season without Manning, then they are making a statement on his talent.

Northman
01-31-2014, 11:18 AM
If they are saying that he can't have a 1000 yrd season without Manning, then they are making a statement on his talent.

Unfortunately, any arguments made against Decker have been extremely extremely weak. Deck cant have a 1,000 yd season without Manning. Um, ok. neither can DT so what does that mean? Then, i posted the idea of trading DT because on paper his value is more than Decker's but then people say DT isnt replaceable. Well, people thought that about Marshall when he was let go. Is it true that Manning can make a lot of receivers look great? Absolutely. But i can guarantee if you took a guy like DT and put him on the Jaguars he would not have a 1,000 yd season. Ive never been quite sure why Decker draws the kind of ire that he does but time and time again he has proven his worth on this football team and has proven the doubters wrong about his ability. It continues to be baffling to me why he is thrown under the bus constantly with weak excuses.

GEM
01-31-2014, 11:22 AM
Those guys are clearly saying he is not a good player, thats why they are justifying not paying him top money.

Well, that's just dumb. He's a good player, we just don't have the money to pay him and everyone else.

Northman
01-31-2014, 11:24 AM
Well, that's just dumb. He's a good player, we just don't have the money to pay him and everyone else.

See i can live with that. But, everytime those guys say he's not worth the money they say he is just an average receiver blah blah blah. I can live with the fact that there just isnt enough money to go around but some of the reasoning is just beyond ridiculous.

CoachChaz
01-31-2014, 11:26 AM
Well, that's just dumb. He's a good player, we just don't have the money to pay him and everyone else.

That's exactly the case. Prioritizing. Can we afford to have two 10 mil receivers on one team? I just dont see how that works without sacrificing a lot of other positions. Therefore, if we have to choose between paying Decker this year or DT next year...I take DT all day, every day. From a business perspective, it has NOTHING to do with Decker's abilities.

claymore
01-31-2014, 11:27 AM
I completely disagree with this assessment of Decker's talent. 100% disagree.

Thats more of an assessment of Manning than Decker. If Decker got a 1000 yards under Tebow I would agree with you.

BroncoJoe
01-31-2014, 11:27 AM
See i can live with that. But, everytime those guys say he's not worth the money they say he is just an average receiver blah blah blah. I can live with the fact that there just isnt enough money to go around but some of the reasoning is just beyond ridiculous.

Where would you rank him against all the receivers in the NFL?

I just don't see anything super special about him and just not worth breaking the bank over. Some team probably will offer him much more than we will, so I'm preparing myself for what I see as the inevitable.

Dreadnought
01-31-2014, 11:32 AM
I think the point is more Manning will make nearly anyone a 1,000 yard receiver.

I would argue that Decker and DT and Welker and JT have outperformed Harrison and Wayne and Clark and Stokley, giving PMFM the greatest year than anything in the past history of the NFL. The difference is that PMFM as a Bronco has better WR's than PMFM had as a Colt. We got the numbers to prove it too.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-31-2014, 11:32 AM
Unfortunately, any arguments made against Decker have been extremely extremely weak. Deck cant have a 1,000 yd season without Manning. Um, ok. neither can DT so what does that mean? Then, i posted the idea of trading DT because on paper his value is more than Decker's but then people say DT isnt replaceable. Well, people thought that about Marshall when he was let go. Is it true that Manning can make a lot of receivers look great? Absolutely. But i can guarantee if you took a guy like DT and put him on the Jaguars he would not have a 1,000 yd season. Ive never been quite sure why Decker draws the kind of ire that he does but time and time again he has proven his worth on this football team and has proven the doubters wrong about his ability. It continues to be baffling to me why he is thrown under the bus constantly with weak excuses.

I don't agree with the highlighted part at all. DT is a freak. He had 300 yards in 2 playoff games with Tim Tebow. He also led the league in receiving yards the last 6 weeks of that same regular season, after he finally got healthy. If he was healthy that whole year he likely would have had well over 1k yards.

DT detractors are full of crap (not saying you're one). First they suggested he could never have those kind of numbers with a legitimate pocket passer because Tebow only played yard ball. Then, he puts up huge numbers with Manning, and people say he couldn't do it without Manning. DT almost always draws the other teams #1 with safety help over the top, and he still makes big plays. Additionally, his ability to get YAC is elite, one of the 3 or 4 best in the game. That has nothing to do with the QB he plays with.

That doesn't mean Decker isn't a good receiver. I think he's a top tier #2, borderline #1. I just don't think he's on the same level as DT. IMO, DT is a top 5 receiver.

claymore
01-31-2014, 11:33 AM
Apparently neither can DT. :lol:

Agreed.

Northman
01-31-2014, 11:33 AM
Where would you rank him against all the receivers in the NFL?



I dont know, i would have to look through all the receivers and rank them. But its not like DT is far and beyond Deck at this point. How hard is it to catch a screen pass? Its not like DT has caught passes in the midst of 3 defenders like CJ or blown the doors off the league, in fact one of his massive weaknesses is getting manhandled at the line and outplayed by a defender fighting for the ball. I hate to sit here and compare the two but again people make DT out to be the next coming of Jerry Rice or something. If a 1000 yd season isnt special even when its on par with every other receiver we have than i dont know what to really tell you. I would of thought his game against KC at Arrowhead would of shown the "specialness" he has but apparently not.

Northman
01-31-2014, 11:35 AM
I don't agree with the highlighted part at all. DT is a freak. He had 300 yards in 2 playoff games with Tim Tebow. He also led the league in receiving yards the last 6 weeks of that same regular season, after he finally got healthy. If he was healthy that whole year he likely would have had well over 1k yards.

DT detractors are full of crap (not saying you're one). First they suggested he could never have those kind of numbers with a legitimate pocket passer because Tebow only played yard ball. Then, he puts up huge numbers with Manning, and people say he couldn't do it without Manning. DT almost always draws the other teams #1 with safety help over the top, and he still makes big plays. Additionally, his ability to get YAC is elite, one of the 3 or 4 best in the game. That has nothing to do with the QB he plays with.

That doesn't mean Decker isn't a good receiver. I think he's a top tier #2, borderline #1.

Now you know how i feel everytime someone tries to downplay how good Decker is.

claymore
01-31-2014, 11:36 AM
I would argue that Decker and DT and Welker and JT have outperformed Harrison and Wayne and Clark and Stokley, giving PMFM the greatest year than anything in the past history of the NFL. The difference is that PMFM as a Bronco has better WR's than PMFM had as a Colt. We got the numbers to prove it too.

I would take Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, and a young Stokley over our current receiving corp. JT is better than Clark so far.

GEM
01-31-2014, 11:38 AM
I would take Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, and a young Stokley over our current receiving corp. JT is better than Clark so far.

Crazy....cuckooooooo!

Ravage!!!
01-31-2014, 11:38 AM
Thats more of an assessment of Manning than Decker. If Decker got a 1000 yards under Tebow I would agree with you.

:lol: Come on, seriously? This HAS to be a post purely meant to be tongue in cheek, right?