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View Full Version : Act Like You've Been There before—What If You HAVEN'T...?



Joel
01-28-2014, 08:12 PM
As the season and playoffs progressively made a Broncos-Seahawks Super Bowl look increasingly likely, I couldn't help thinking, We've got many experienced veterans, with Manning having been to a Super Bowl twice, and Fox was the Panthers head coach ten year ago in Super Bowl XXXVIII. Seattle's a very young team where few players have been that far; can they handle the pressure of being broadcast around the world in the NFLs biggest game...? It turns out that's a valid question many people are asking:

Just FOUR players on EITHER roster have played a SB (i.e. Manning, Welker, DRC and Tamme) and ALL are Broncos. http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10361341&categoryid=2459789 That is, EVERY Seahawk player is playing his first SB, and their average age is only negligibly more than historys youngest SB team: The '71 Dolphins. http://onecaribbeanradio.com/seahawks-second-youngest-team-in-super-bowl-history-on-verge-of-dynasty/

History's not destiny, but that would bode well for us if it were: The '72 Dolphins were arguably the NFLs greatest team ever, and only perfect one (the '48 Browns were also perfect, but in the All American Football Conference, 2 years before their decade of NFL dominance.) They successfully defended their Super Bowl championship in 1973, losing just twice all year. HOWEVER, the '71 Dolphins, good as they were, scored the least points in Super Bowl history (a single FG) as the experienced Cowboys avenged their loss in the first two NFCCGs and the previous years SB loss.

Again, history's not destiny; the '71 Cowboys had the best playoff defense ever, tolerating just ONE TD in THREE games, and just a single FG each in the NFCCG and Super Bowl. It's safe to say our D isn't as good as perhaps the best ever, but it's also safe to say our offense IS the best ever (if less balanced than I'd like against one of the all time great defenses.)

It's also safe to say just four players with Super Bowl experience and only ONE with a win isn't a lot either—but better than NONE, especially when the other team is so young in the first place. Sure, they're cocky; most 26 year olds playing in a Super Bowl would be. Yet (and, to be fair, this isn't the approach I favor) if we hit them hard, fast and early a couple times, so they find themselves soon and suddenly down double digits with the world watching, does Seattle have the maturity and poise to weather that storm and rally?

Seattle's not built for huge comebacks anyway: It's built to avoid NEEDING them. Their offense piled up the 4th most rushing yards this year with just a single back averaging only the 12th most yards, because they generally got to run out the clock with leads—what if they can't do that Sunday? Wilson's widely underated, with a passing offense averaging more yards/attempt than even OUR record setting Pro Bowlers, but, except for Harvin, Seattles WRs and TEs are nothing special. Good-not-great starters; uncertain depth (much like NE, though NE didn't have Harvin.)

The Seahawks faced little adversity this year; what happens when they do? The inability of anyone to challenge them much or long's not exactly reason to doubt them but, sooner or later, every game—ESPECIALLY championships—confront each team with at least one "put up or shut up" moment. Down 7-0 early in the 1940 NFL Championship, Sammy Baugh tossed a tying TD to a receiver who dropped it, and after the game a reporter asked him if the catch would've changed anything, to which Baugh replied, "Sure. The final score would have been 73–7."

We can never be sure what would've happened had the pass been caught; we can be sure the Bears 73-0 beatdown of the 'Skins is the most points and most lopsided by victory by any team in any game in NFL history. Just as we know the 'Skins who got pounded that day didn't just fold when they trailed SB XXII 10-0 in the first quarter.

If I weren't a Broncos fan, and WERE a bettor, I'd take them by a nose just because our D's running out of depth. However, the edge in experience overcoming adversity and experience in general is heavily ours. Nowhere is that more so than in the man who, however much he tries not to overshadow our coaches, is 2-3 as a SB starter and tied (with a dozen others) for second most SB appearances ever. The clutch moments each championship eventually has must favor us; we just can't afford to lose any more of the quality starters who have it.

As the first ESPN video notes, the last SB team with NO SB experience was the 1990 Bills, who lost by missing a fairly short game-winning FG attempt; since 1980, teams without SB experience are 1-3 (I have no idea who was the lone winner, but am curious; my bet is the '81 '9ers.) More from ESPN on the value of experience and how Coach Fox is riding OUR "Bus" (beep, beep:)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/10340485/denver-broncos-coach-john-fox-relying-super-bowl-experience
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:10332694

olathebroncofan
01-29-2014, 12:45 AM
Sometimes I SOOOOOOO want to read your posts, but then I realize my bathroom breaks aren't that long and then my ADD starts acting up.

Cliffs please

Pudge
01-29-2014, 12:52 AM
Sometimes I SOOOOOOO want to read your posts, but then I realize my bathroom breaks aren't that long and then my ADD starts acting up.

Cliffs please

I usually read the fist paragraph then I realize I'm not even half way there and give up

Joel
01-29-2014, 01:07 AM
Sometimes I SOOOOOOO want to read your posts, but then I realize my bathroom breaks aren't that long and then my ADD starts acting up.

Cliffs please
If I could do Cliffs notes, don't you think I would? ;) Maybe try the first and last links; they're videos, and I don't think either is >2:00 long. The second link talks about Seattle being the second youngest SB team (and the '71 Dolphins only beat them by hours,) but it's an article, so it would probably be at least as fast to just read my OP.

Northman
01-29-2014, 05:47 AM
My only hope in all this is that Seattle doesnt stay focused and gets lost in the limelight. I hope Manning and the vets can keep our young guys focused and be prepared to take care of business on Sunday.

TXBRONC
01-29-2014, 10:05 AM
Sometimes I SOOOOOOO want to read your posts, but then I realize my bathroom breaks aren't that long and then my ADD starts acting up.

Cliffs please

It's just can't read that stuff all jammed together.

Dzone
01-29-2014, 10:50 AM
Sometimes I SOOOOOOO want to read your posts, but then I realize my bathroom breaks aren't that long and then my ADD starts acting up.

Cliffs please
lmao!

Dzone
01-29-2014, 10:52 AM
The seahwaks havent been there before , thats obvious. They are all out partying, drinking and hanging out in strip joints this week. Eugene Robinson should be an honorary seahawk
edit-ok, maybe not all, but enough of them and I have no pictures to prove it, so maybe just a rumor. It would be stupid for any player to be out at a bar trying to pick up ***** this week

artie_dale
01-29-2014, 11:35 AM
I admit... I read the first two paragraphs and then the last one. What I got out of it was that our chances of beating Seattle based on SB experience are good. Is that what you intended us to get out of it?

Joel
01-29-2014, 11:36 AM
My only hope in all this is that Seattle doesnt stay focused and gets lost in the limelight. I hope Manning and the vets can keep our young guys focused and be prepared to take care of business on Sunday.
Well, it's not my ONLY hope; if our offensive line does both its jobs so we protect Manning and at least get decent running production, and our defensive line does ITS jobs well enough to get some pressure on Wilson without losing contain and at least slow Lynch, I like our chances.

However, if Seattles young team comes out expecting to blow us out early only to find themselves TRAILING by double digits early, and buckles under all that pressure, the second half would be a lot more relaxed and fun for me (although our PLAYERS darned well better finish the game, since it's the Super Bowl.) Wilson's a good QB, but it's only his second year, and if we put up some points while preventing Lynch from running all over us, Wilson may not be ready to win a SB in just his second season.

I'd still rather beat them at their own game, consistently running for respectable gains and picking up conversions on the ground so their rush honor play action and draw the SS down into the box while frustrating an impotent offense that never scores much or fast, tiring their D and both resting and preventing more injuries to ours. As noted in another thread, taking a lot of deep kill shots early is an all or nothing gamble, especially against a good secondary and pass rush, and that rush will just start charging Manning every down if we don't keep them honest with the run.

The thing is, if we're getting points each time, posting nice long drives right along with Seattle could sideline Lynch even more than Manning. Ball control may not let Manning on the field much, but at least he can still PLAY when he is; if Seattle's down 20 pts in the second half it doesn't really matter if Manning or Moreno did it: Lynch would be out of the game either way, especially if we're still sustaining 7-8 minute drives; at that point I'd be more than happy to trade a pair of those even if we got nothing and they got TD: We'd still win by 6.

There's every reason to think we could grab a big early passing OR running to test their maturity and poise, but doing it on the ground would attack a slightly weaker side of their D. Most importantly, we can't let a great D know our playcalls ahead of time; my favorite thing about our first AFCCG TD was that we had big runs AND passes in roughly equal quantities, so by the end the the Pats D was thoroughly worn out and had NO idea whether we'd go for our TD through the air or on the ground. Seattle's not NE, but that's what we need this week.


The seahwaks havent been there before , thats obvious. They are all out partying, drinking and hanging out in strip joints this week. Eugene Robinson should be an honorary seahawk
Well, to be fair the only pic I've seen of a player at a strip club was Hillman, but I guess he might as well since, heaven willing, he won't play Sunday anyway.

Carroll's not exactly known for being a strict disciplinarian though, and even if they aren't all out partying they are still talking themselves up like the win's a foregone conclusion. Even what humility they have is false humility: Many of their starters were drafted late or not at all, so many of them talk about playing with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove.

Hopefully they start next season as way we started this one, still kicking themselves over the one that got away, knowing another shot may not come. Still, the deeper the playoffs go the less likely teams phone it in, and it's hard to imagine anyone would try to phone in a SB. If we're good enough to apply enough pressure, Seattle might crack, but I do expect they'll come to play.

Joel
01-29-2014, 11:42 AM
I admit... I read the first two paragraphs and then the last one. What I got out of it was that our chances of beating Seattle based on SB experience are good. Is that what you intended us to get out of it?
They're the second youngest SB team ever, one of the few with NO players who've been there (though we only have 4,) and teams without former SB player are 1-3 in SB since 1980.

Again, history's not destiny, and none of that guarantees anything, but the experience edge is definitely ours in terms of both how long our players have been around and how far they've gone.

The best illustration is the QBs: 16 year vet with 13 Pro Bowls, 1 SB loss and 1 SB win vs. talented sophomore QB in his first SB.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 11:43 AM
It was one of the biggest reasons I was rooting for Seattle over San Fran in the NFC Championship game. ALLL the San Fran players were just there last year. Everything would be "Been there, done that." The excitement and the jitters wouldn't be effecting them as much as they would Seattle. Experience is HUGE. Manning has been here twice.....wilson Zero.

Two People Joel forgot to mention..... FOX and Jack Del Rio have BOTH been to the big dance as coaches (if he mentioned it, it was further down the paragraph that I didn't get to). I think that preparation could be paramount.

Joel
01-29-2014, 11:53 AM
It was one of the biggest reasons I was rooting for Seattle over San Fran in the NFC Championship game. ALLL the San Fran players were just there last year. Everything would be "Been there, done that." The excitement and the jitters wouldn't be effecting them as much as they would Seattle. Experience is HUGE. Manning has been here twice.....wilson Zero.
Agreed; I was rooting for Seattle all game because of that and my belief SFs WRs and TEs are MUCH better (even with Harvin back.) I was actually a little worried SF would win.


Two People Joel forgot to mention..... FOX and Jack Del Rio have BOTH been to the big dance as coaches (if he mentioned it, it was further down the paragraph that I didn't get to). I think that preparation could be paramount.
I did mention Fox, but didn't know Del Rio has also been there as a coach. Yet another bonus. If I matched things up right, the closest Carroll's ever come to a SB was as an SF assistant the year AFTER their last win (they lost to GB in the divisional round, IIRC) and a NE assistant the year AFTER they lost to GB.

Ravage!!!
01-29-2014, 11:55 AM
I did mention Fox, but didn't know Del Rio has also been there as a coach. Yet another bonus. If I matched things up right, the closest Carroll's ever come to a SB was as an SF assistant the year AFTER their last win (they lost to GB in the divisional round, IIRC) and a NE assistant the year AFTER they lost to GB.

Del Rio was the LB coach in Baltimore during their 200o Super Bowl win.

Joel
01-29-2014, 12:43 PM
Del Rio was the LB coach in Baltimore during their 200o Super Bowl win.
Yeah, you got me to google. :tongue: Before he took over the hapless Jags the only thing I remembered about Del Rio was being a good LB for the Cowboys, but apparently he wasn't there as long as I thought, because he somehow managed to arrive the year after Jerry fired Landry and leave the year before they won the first of the 3 SBs. Talk about bad timing.

OrangeHoof
01-29-2014, 01:08 PM
I admit... I read the first two paragraphs and then the last one. What I got out of it was that our chances of beating Seattle based on SB experience are good. Is that what you intended us to get out of it?

As I wavered between which team I wanted to win the NFC Championship Game, I finally settled on Seattle because of their lack of Super Bowl experience. I figured if their coach could let the '05 USC Trojans acquire a big head, the same could happen to the Seahawks.

OrangeHoof
01-29-2014, 01:14 PM
What's even better is that the ones with SB experience on the Broncos are in key positions:

QB, possession receivers, head coach, shutdown corner, etc. - the very ones you least want to get a case of nerves.

BroncoNut
01-29-2014, 01:16 PM
no Joel, just no

Joel
01-30-2014, 04:41 PM
As I wavered between which team I wanted to win the NFC Championship Game, I finally settled on Seattle because of their lack of Super Bowl experience. I figured if their coach could let the '05 USC Trojans acquire a big head, the same could happen to the Seahawks.
Sure looks like it. Part of why I wanted SOMEONE to beat Seattle whether or not we got that far was I didn't want Carroll to follow his vacated "National" "Championship" with a vacated SB.

Seriously, nearly a DOZEN guys positive drug tests in just THREE years since he took charge? The law of averages says the NFL didn't just happen to catch EVERY player, so how many more don't we know about, and what does that systemic problem say of Carrolls system? No wonder he's the guy everyone want to play for; everyone wanted to play for Switzer when he had cops covering drug ring murders by his players, and he arrived with the Cowboys just about the time Michael Irvin started getting busted for coke: The cool dad's not always as cool as the kids think.


What's even better is that the ones with SB experience on the Broncos are in key positions:

QB, possession receivers, head coach, shutdown corner, etc. - the very ones you least want to get a case of nerves.
Yeah, I can easily envision us containing (if not truly stopping Lynch) and protecting Manning well enough it comes down to whether a sophomore QB can handle having his first SB put entirely on his back. If so, I must believe the answer is "no." Especially if we beat them at their own ball control game; I'd much rather take the field up 7+ halfway through the 4th and run Moreno so consistently well Wilson never gets a CHANCE for a heroic comeback.

BroncoNut
01-30-2014, 04:42 PM
My only hope in all this is that Seattle doesnt stay focused and gets lost in the limelight. I hope Manning and the vets can keep our young guys focused and be prepared to take care of business on Sunday.
that could be a factor. Pete Carrol's a crafty coach though.

Joel
01-30-2014, 04:49 PM
that could be a factor. Pete Carrol's a crafty coach though.
All I need to know about Carroll is that—despite the biggest concentration of talent in the nation over THREE STRAIGHT SEASONS—he wasn't "crafty" enough to win a "National" "Championship" outright in ANY of them. The closest he ever came was a split vote in 2003; after that, 2004s "championship" was vacated due to rules violations in which he was personally (if "only" partly) involved, and Vince Young almost singlehandedly beat his team for the 2005 "championship" (not that it matters, since USCs wrongdoing forced it to vacate all 2005s wins, too.)