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dogfish
01-24-2014, 05:10 PM
That's right, the big game. . . the ****in' Super Bowl! We're playing in it, next week. Cannot wait. We got this! Who else is psyched?

:defense:

Who do you think will come up big? What matchups are you looking forward to? Let's talk about FOOTBALL, not all this limp-wristed horseshit about the weather, or ****tarded pointless hypotheticals and pathetic agendas.

Timmy!
01-24-2014, 05:15 PM
I have a feeling OJ, Welker, and Champ have big days.

Also, Peyton rushes for a touchdown :nakedbootgamewinner:

slim
01-24-2014, 05:18 PM
I agree with Timmy! Welker and OJ....they have both become 3rd down machines and I don't think Seattle has an answer for either one of them.

On defense, I think #59 is gonna bring the pain. We need him to be playmaker.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-24-2014, 05:26 PM
I agree with Timmy! Welker and OJ....they have both become 3rd down machines and I don't think Seattle has an answer for either one of them.

On defense, I think #59 is gonna bring the pain. We need him to be playmaker.

Seattle will have some matchup problems. I'm sure they make some plays, but they count on their secondary for 1on1 coverage. They will not be able to man up with all of our weapons. I don't think they have any backers that excel in coverage.

chazoe60
01-24-2014, 05:27 PM
The three guys I have a good feeling about are Knowshon, Trevathan, and Champ.

I think Manning and the fellas will get theirs but in the end I think its the running game and defense that surprise

dogfish
01-24-2014, 05:32 PM
i agree completely on welker-- do not agree about OJ, they do have answers for him. . . free safety earl thomas and SAM 'backer KJ wright are both beasts in coverage. . . last week, the hawks held jimmy graham to one catch for eight yards-- in their dec. 2 meeting, they held graham to 3-42 (although he did catch a TD). . . in their playoff game against san fran, vernon davis had 2 catches for 16 lousy yards. . . their first meeting of the season, they held him to 3-20-- he went 2-21 and a TD in the regular season re-match. . . they also held tony gonzales to 3-21. . . these guys can handle TEs. . . not to say that julius can't win, of course, but it's not a matchup in our favor. . .

i think welker is a different story. . . they haven't faced an offense with a third receiver anywhere close to his caliber, and it's going to put their vaunted secondary depth to the test. . . particularly because of what we do with welker in formations-- by using bunch formations, we'll make it difficult if not impossible for their corners to jam him effectively at the line. . . if he can get a free release, we know he has the separation skills to beat almost any corner in the short area. . . i think he'll be a weapon on third downs, just as he always is. . . and i see him finding the end zone in this one. . .

Tned
01-24-2014, 05:37 PM
That's right, the big game. . . the ****in' Super Bowl! We're playing in it, next week. Cannot wait. We got this! Who else is psyched?

:defense:

Who do you think will come up big? What matchups are you looking forward to? Let's talk about FOOTBALL, not all this limp-wristed horseshit about the weather, or ****tarded pointless hypotheticals and pathetic agendas.

Unlike most of the press, I think the Broncos will pretty well shut down Lynch. I see something in the 60-80 yard range when it's all said and done, with that only being achieved through 2-3 longish runs, and a whole lot of 1-3 yard gains.

Assuming we don't have forced turnovers, using that term because an awful lot of our turnovers have been bad plays on Broncos players parts vs. good plays by defenders, I will be surprised if the Broncos can't move the ball against Seattle, even though they have a great defense. The Broncos simply have too many offensive weapons, which is why they were the most prolific offense in NFL history.

One of the main differences between when the Broncos run away with a game or it's a nail biter or loss is whether they finish drives with TDs or FGs. If they move the ball between the 20's effectively, but then stall in the red zone, usually as a result of penalties and other mental mistakes, and have to resort to FGs, then that could leave the door open for Seattle.

While most of the experts think Lynch will allow Seattle to keep the ball away from the Broncos and limit Manning's possessions, I think they underestimate the Broncos run defense (believing the stats are misleading, and a result of teams falling behind and abandoning the run), and Seattle will have to try and win via the passing game. Of late, Wilson has struggled in that area. So, I think in the end, this game is going to come down to whether or not Wilson can lead Seattle to four or more TDs via the passing game.

We'll see.

BroncoJoe
01-24-2014, 05:37 PM
JT is going to have a BIG day, dog. A BIG DAY!

I want a new tee-shirt. PFR.

Pot Fricken Roast. He's going to dine on Marshawn Lynch.

BroncoWave
01-24-2014, 05:38 PM
Harvin worries me a bit. They have been this great without him this season, and he will be fully healthy and ready to go for the game. I'm really not sure we have an answer for him defensively. I feel confident we can slow down Lynch, and if we can find a way to stop Harvin, their offense shouldn't score enough to beat us.

chazoe60
01-24-2014, 05:38 PM
I'm loving the way this is shaping up. If you watched the mainstream media you wouldn't even know the Broncos were in this game and if you did know, you would assume they have no chance of winning it.

Apparently the Broncos have never faced a defense like this and the Seahawks have been crushing record setting offenses left and right.

Joel
01-24-2014, 05:40 PM
Can we stick to calling him Orange Julius rather than OJ? The other nickname belongs to someone else, and doesn't bring to mind the same images it once did.

Anyway, regarding the game: Anyone else nervous about Clark vs. Clemons/Avril? Clark's been great against bull rushers, but a few games after he took Cladys spot he had 3 straight bad games with strip sacks against speed rushers. That wasn't long after he became the starter, I know, but this games on FieldTurf and neither Clemons nor Avril is >260, so I'm a little concerned. Same with Beadles/Ramirez vs. Mebane on that side in the middle, though there it's the opposite problem: Power rather than speed and agility.

I'm a little intrigued that, per attempt, Seattles offense runs far worse and passes far better than most people would probably expect: Their 4.1 rushing yds/att is only slightly above average (12th) but their 8.4 passing yds/att is 2nd best, even better than OUR 3rd ranked 8.3 yds/att. I think our top ten run D can hold up against Lynch as long as we don't leave them on the field to tire out and risk further injuries we can't afford, and would bet on Manning and our WRs over Wilson and theirs, but did find it interesting that the stats contradict conventional wisdom.

Really, we're looking at the same game plan as our other playoff games:

1) Stop the run,
2) Protect Manning
3) Avoid turnovers
4) Run well enough ourselves to keep their front seven from just charging Manning every down, ideally well enough to draw down a safety and thin the coverage.

Their offense has looked pretty flat in the playoffs, while both our overall D and running game have progressively improved. That's a potentially potent combination; our longest drive of the season was the divisional round against SD—until we bettered it TWICE in the AFCCG. That opening second half drive that burned >7 minutes and gave us a 3 score lead almost finished the game right there, and when the D came up to make a stop with great field position on NEs next drive (which was pretty long itself) the game was over in all but name.

I'm hoping we finally jump out to an early lead when it matters most, and just keep pouring it on till they collapse. Experience could be key as well, one big reason I didn't want to face the defending NFC champs coming off their third straight NFCCG: They wouldn't crack under the pressure of the biggest game of their careers broadcast live around the world, but Seattle just might. The Seahawks have never faced true adversity this year, while we've overcome nothing but; if we stagger them early, they might just drop right there.

slim
01-24-2014, 05:55 PM
Dog, breakdown the DT/Sherman match up for me.

Joel
01-24-2014, 05:55 PM
Seattle will have some matchup problems. I'm sure they make some plays, but they count on their secondary for 1on1 coverage. They will not be able to man up with all of our weapons. I don't think they have any backers that excel in coverage.
Bobby Wagner does, and 6'3" 232 lb. SS Kam Chancellor is basically a 4th LB much of the time. Both their safeties and one of their LBs cover well; where I think we have the edge against their coverage is Decker on Byron Maxwell. Not that Maxwell's a bad CB, I just think Decker's a better WR; we need him to avoid drops and fumbles though. Then again, Maxwell's 40 time was better than Deckers, but DTs was significantly better than Thomas'. I hope they do play man against us, because a zone could give us problems; we just have to protect Manning so guys get clear.

Plus we need to run often and well. That'll keep their pass rushers honest and slow them down a bit, and hopefully draw Chancellor down into the box so there's one less guy in the secondary, while resting our D, preventing further injury to it and tiring out their D.


Harvin worries me a bit. They have been this great without him this season, and he will be fully healthy and ready to go for the game. I'm really not sure we have an answer for him defensively. I feel confident we can slow down Lynch, and if we can find a way to stop Harvin, their offense shouldn't score enough to beat us.
Seems like it's gotta be DRC, 'cause I'm not sure Champ's got enough speed left to go with Harvin downfield all game. It's just a question of what Tate and Baldwin can do then against Champ and (I presume) Carter or Webster; all three of their starting WRs run in the low 4.4s, so Wilson may test Champ and we can't afford Jammer unless we give him safety help up top.

It could be interesting; Wilsons stats say he's better than most credit, but Lynchs say he's worse, so it may be easier than some think to contain (if not completely stop) Lynch, but we still have to cover and pressure Wilson. I wonder how well their line can hold up, since they've had some injuries, too; if we can get good penetration and pressure that would make life far easier for both Manning and our D. It's a fascinating matchup all around because the teams have such complementary strengths and weaknesses across the board.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-24-2014, 05:59 PM
Dog, breakdown the DT/Sherman match up for me.

I remember DT making a beating Sherman for a jump ball in the preseason. I don't think he can stay 1 on 1 with DT.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-24-2014, 06:02 PM
Bobby Wagner does, and 6'3" 232 lb. SS Kam Chancellor is basically a 4th LB much of the time. Both their safeties and one of their LBs cover well; where I think we have the edge against their coverage is Decker on Byron Maxwell. Not that Maxwell's a bad CB, I just think Decker's a better WR; we need him to avoid drops and fumbles though. Then again, Maxwell's 40 time was better than Deckers, but DTs was significantly better than Thomas'. I hope they do play man against us, because a zone could give us problems; we just have to protect Manning so guys get clear.

Plus we need to run often and well. That'll keep their pass rushers honest and slow them down a bit, and hopefully draw Chancellor down into the box so there's one less guy in the secondary, while resting our D, preventing further injury to it and tiring out their D.


Seems like it's gotta be DRC, 'cause I'm not sure Champ's got enough speed left to go with Harvin downfield all game. It's just a question of what Tate and Baldwin can do then against Champ and (I presume) Carter or Webster; all three of their starting WRs run in the low 4.4s, so Wilson may test Champ and we can't afford Jammer unless we give him safety help up top.

It could be interesting; Wilsons stats say he's better than most credit, but Lynchs say he's worse, so it may be easier than some think to contain (if not completely stop) Lynch, but we still have to cover and pressure Wilson. I wonder how well their line can hold up, since they've had some injuries, too; if we can get good penetration and pressure that would make life far easier for both Manning and our D. It's a fascinating matchup all around because the teams have such complementary strengths and weaknesses across the board.

Wagner is closer to 245, and I don't think he can cover Julius. Chancellor might be able to, but it's still a tall order. People like to cite the Seahawks shutting down Jimmy Graham, but Graham is the Saints biggest threat and Seattle doubled him a lot to take him away. The Saints don't have the depth to spread people out like Denver does to create the matchup problems.

slim
01-24-2014, 06:05 PM
I remember DT making a beating Sherman for a jump ball in the preseason. I don't think he can stay 1 on 1 with DT.

I agree.

Colston had a big day against Seattle a couple of weeks ago, but I don't remember who he was going against.

slim
01-24-2014, 06:07 PM
Wagner is closer to 245, and I don't think he can cover Julius. Chancellor might be able to, but it's still a tall order. People like to cite the Seahawks shutting down Jimmy Graham, but Graham is the Saints biggest threat and Seattle doubled him a lot to take him away. The Saints don't have the depth to spread people out like Denver does to create the matchup problems.

And Vernon Davis only had 3 targets last week (not to mention that Kap played like shit).

They can take OJ away if they want to, but at what cost?

DenBronx
01-24-2014, 06:08 PM
Everytime I turn on the news they are talking about our #1 offense vs their #1 defense.


But the tale of the tape will be how our #19 defense vs their #17 offense.


Those are the regular season stats. I have always said whoever gets hot heading into the playoffs and IN the playoffs will win the SB. Denvers #19 defense looks way way better than what we saw in the regular season. They have become stingy and actually looks better with several star players out. We are not giving up anything to their run game, nothing! I think the key factor is our defense in this game and if we can shut the run down one more time. We also need to force 3 and outs against them and NOT give up the deep ball.

DenBronx
01-24-2014, 06:09 PM
I remember DT making a beating Sherman for a jump ball in the preseason. I don't think he can stay 1 on 1 with DT.

I agree, Shermans not going to stop DT. But Seattle is going to have a hard time containing everyone else as well.

Woudln't be shocked to see Manning throw 4 TDs in this game.

Joel
01-24-2014, 06:18 PM
Wagner is closer to 245, and I don't think he can cover Julius. Chancellor might be able to, but it's still a tall order. People like to cite the Seahawks shutting down Jimmy Graham, but Graham is the Saints biggest threat and Seattle doubled him a lot to take him away. The Saints don't have the depth to spread people out like Denver does to create the matchup problems.
I agree with the gist of that: Whether or not Wagner or Chancellor can cover JT one-on-one, he's one of 4 guys with 10+ TDs this year, and Moreno has a few more; they can't cover EVERYONE man-to-man if we give PFM enough time for someone to get free. One of the many things I wonder about is whether they'll be so confident in their secondary in man and concerned about our short passing game that they try to blanket the short routes and trust their safeties and CBs to guard against deep threats. IF they do and IF we give Manning tme, that could bite them badly.

It really is the matchup fans deserve; neither team has any truly gaping holes the other can abuse all game, and each is strong/weak where the other is equally so on the other side. I do like our secondary more than their WRs, and our WRs slightly more than their secondary, but how much that matters depends a lot on how each of us runs and plays the run, plus the weather.

Speaking of which, I'm a little mad the NFL seems to have retroactively changed the official temp in the SD game to 41° even though they told us throughout that game the temperatures were in the mid-thirties: Peyton Manning won a playoff game <40° but, much as when they discounted the one he won @KC, the media loves saying, "NEVER :shocked:" too much to let the stat go. Guess he'll just have to go out and win a sub-freezing SB to put that one to bed for good. :salute:

Ziggy
01-24-2014, 06:27 PM
Their vaunted legion of doom defense only played 2 decent offenses this season on the road. The #11 and #14 scoring offenses. In those 2 games, they gave up an average of 27 points/game. They haven't seen anything like this Denver offense in the regular season. This game isn't going to be close like people think it is. Denver wins by 10.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-24-2014, 06:35 PM
Their vaunted legion of doom defense only played 2 decent offenses this season on the road. The #11 and #14 scoring offenses. In those 2 games, they gave up an average of 27 points/game. They haven't seen anything like this Denver offense in the regular season. This game isn't going to be close like people think it is. Denver wins by 10.

I like them apples.

Tned
01-24-2014, 06:36 PM
Dog, breakdown the DT/Sherman match up for me.

Does Sherman always cover the best WR, or does he always play the LCB spot? If he always plays the left side, he would wind up on Decker more times than not. If he covers the best WR, then he would be on DT.

DenBronx
01-24-2014, 06:38 PM
Their vaunted legion of doom defense only played 2 decent offenses this season on the road. The #11 and #14 scoring offenses. In those 2 games, they gave up an average of 27 points/game. They haven't seen anything like this Denver offense in the regular season. This game isn't going to be close like people think it is. Denver wins by 10.


Did you forget the Saints? They ended the season as the 4th ranked offense. When Seattle played them they were ranked #2 on offense and they beat them pretty bad.

slim
01-24-2014, 06:39 PM
Does Sherman always cover the best WR, or does he always play the LCB spot? If he always plays the left side, he would wind up on Decker more times than not. If he covers the best WR, then he would be on DT.

I don't know. I've heard he stays on one side exclusively, but I find that hard to believe. If that is the case, then I think we will see Knowhshon split out to his side a lot :D

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-24-2014, 06:40 PM
Did you forget the Saints? They ended the season as the 4th ranked offense. When Seattle played them they were ranked #2 on offense and they beat them pretty bad.

That was a home game for Seattle. He was referring to road games. Seattle won't have the noise advantage in this game.

Tned
01-24-2014, 06:43 PM
I don't know. I've heard he stays on one side exclusively, but I find that hard to believe. If that is the case, then I think we will see Knowhshon split out to his side a lot :D

For much of his career, Champ pretty much stayed on one side and it was the exception when he moved into the slot to cover a TE like Gates or moved completely to the other side.

Joel
01-24-2014, 06:46 PM
Everytime I turn on the news they are talking about our #1 offense vs their #1 defense.

But the tale of the tape will be how our #19 defense vs their #17 offense.

Those are the regular season stats. I have always said whoever gets hot heading into the playoffs and IN the playoffs will win the SB. Denvers #19 defense looks way way better than what we saw in the regular season. They have become stingy and actually looks better with several star players out. We are not giving up anything to their run game, nothing! I think the key factor is our defense in this game and if we can shut the run down one more time. We also need to force 3 and outs against them and NOT give up the deep ball.
I agree; our running AND D have gotten progressively better in the playoffs, while their offense has been increasingly flat. To be fair, they faced much better defenses, and NEs offense was one-dimensional without Gronk; they ran decently (if not as well as claimed by the media trying to make lemonade out of lemons) but had no receiving threats.

On the other hand, SDs offense was good and balanced enough to drag a bad D to the playoffs (even if they lost Matthews after the first half against us) and their pass rush was underrated all year, yet we dominated them until we put the game away and started playing Prevent. Seattle trailed most of the game against SF until Kaep threw the game away in the fourth, and Wilson tried to give the game away on its very first scrimmage play.

I'm hoping Seattles inexperience and lack of adversity betrays them on the global stage, while our experience and overcoming adversity is decisive. One thing about it, if either team builds a big early lead, ours is much better built for comebacks (on the other hand, if one team's clinging to a thin late lead, theirs is much better built for running out the clock and preventing Hail Maries.)

I'm still more interested in our respective performances per attempt than raw totals though, because blowouts badly skew totals: That's why after a blowout-filled September our run D was ranked #1 but our pass D was ranked #31. Per attempt, it breaks down as:

Offensive Passing Yds/Att
Denver: 8.3 (3rd)
Seattle: 8.4 (2nd)

Offensive Rushing Yds/Att
Denver: 4.1 (20th)
Seattle: 4.3 (12th)

Defensive Passing Yds/Att
Denver: 7.1 (15th)
Seattle: 5.8 (1st)

Defensive Rushing Yds/Att
Denver: 3.9 (10th)
Seattle: 3.9 (7th)

Puts the matter in a whole other light: That supposedly awful Denver pass D is actually slightly above average, and Beast Mode's only slightly above average, too, not beastly at all. Seattles D really does stop the pass as well as advertised though, and their own passing is better, even slightly better than ours record-setting group: Seattle just doesn't pass unless it must, which has been very seldom. However, they'll probably have to against us, because our run D is as good as unadvertised, only negligibly worse than Seattles.

Our 20th ranked rushing average worries me though, because Seattle's not bad against the run, and we need to run well for MANY reasons. It slows pass rushes to give Manning and the line a break, and running well draws down safeties to thin coverage. It also rests and protects a patchwork Denver D built for speed at the expense of size, that can't afford more injuries or to be forced to run their sprints all game. It also wears down Seattles D so we can exploit them late in halves.

Plus the whole "offenses can't score from the sideline" doesn't just mean many chances will let good offenses bury teams; it also means bad offense need lots of chances to score AT ALL.

BigDaddyBronco
01-24-2014, 06:49 PM
I'mthinking Decker gets underestimated and owns Maxwell. If they use a safety on J Thomas, then Welker gets single coverage by P. Cox and he burns his rapey ass. Our screen game takes advantage of their aggression and does damage. On defense we slow down Lynch but get hurt by some big plays by their fast recievers. At the end of the day we win as Manning keeps them off the field and eats up clock in the 2nd half. We win by 10. 27-17

Joel
01-24-2014, 06:49 PM
For much of his career, Champ pretty much stayed on one side and it was the exception when he moved into the slot to cover a TE like Gates or moved completely to the other side.
For what it's worth, Champ could also run down the sideline with his man, drop him once the ball was thrown to the OTHER sideline and sprint the width of the field to knock down or even pick it.

I'm not sure Sherman can do that. Maybe; "Adderall's a helluva drug".... ;)

slim
01-24-2014, 06:50 PM
For much of his career, Champ pretty much stayed on one side and it was the exception when he moved into the slot to cover a TE like Gates or moved completely to the other side.

Yes, that is true. But that it's pretty easy to just line up your best WR on the other side and go to town. Which is why guys like Roc Alexander would get abused all game.

Joel
01-24-2014, 06:53 PM
I'mthinking Decker gets underestimated and owns Maxwell. If they use a safety on J Thomas, then Welker gets single coverage by P. Cox and he burns his rapey ass. Our screen game takes advantage of their aggression and does damage. On defense we slow down Lynch but get hurt by some big plays by their fast recievers. At the end of the day we win as Manning keeps them off the field and eats up clock in the 2nd half. We win by 10. 27-17
Didn't realize it would be Cox on Welker; yeah, that's a total mismatch. I just worry a bit about a third concussion by the Legion of Dope, because you KNOW they want to hit him a lot and hard, and when they do they'll say they're just "playing their game" and, anyway, he plays the same way—didn't you see that totally legal accidental contact with Talib? :rolleyes:

I'm pulling for Decker against Maxwell though; I like that matchup, but against that opportunistic hard-hitting D we can't afford more of the drops and fumbles he's sometimes had, and jumping around screaming for a flag probably won't help any more than in the regular season.

dogfish
01-24-2014, 06:59 PM
Dog, breakdown the DT/Sherman match up for me.


Does Sherman always cover the best WR, or does he always play the LCB spot? If he always plays the left side, he would wind up on Decker more times than not. If he covers the best WR, then he would be on DT.

slim, you'd do better asking coach, but i'll take a shot. . .

i haven't watched them enough to know just how much they do it, but they do move sherman around to match him with top receivers-- i know they've done a good job keeping him locked on calvin johnson in the past. . . i do anticipate that he'll be on DT most of the time when they're in man, and it's going to be a fun matchup to watch. . . they're both among the best at their position, but IMO, DT is the more purely physically gifted, where sherman is stronger technically and fundamentally. . . not that dick isn't a good athlete, or DT hasn't made significant strides on his route-running and whatnot, but i think they do rely on different strengths. . .

we know that sherman's very aggressive and physical, and that he's going to want to jam DT at the line as much as he can-- it's how they always play, and it's also the best way to disrupt our timing offense. . . a whole lot of the contest between the two's gonna get settled right there, at the LOS. . . our guys did struggle with physical press coverage earlier in the season-- how well DT plays against it on sunday will have a big impact on the game. . . if sherman can't consistently disrupt DT at the line, it will affect how they play their safeties. . . sherman doesn't have elite catch-up speed if he gives up a free release, and DT WILL wreck your gameplan if you start letting him get loose down the field. . .

i think a lot of it will come down to DT's mindset. . . he certainly has the physical tools to beat sherman. . . will he match sherman's aggressive mentality and determination? would love to see it-- if he does, we gain a tremendous edge, and could walk away with it. . . honestly though, i think welker vs. thurmond or decker against maxwell will be our most advantageous matchups, and i kinda expect peyton to challenge those two more than sherman. . . rightfully so, IMO-- dude is a MAJOR ballhawk, and a lot of that comes from his smarts. . . for a player of his experience, he's uncanny at diagnosing route combinations, and he has a serious nose for the ball. . . plus long arms, great hops, and good hands. . . not sure i'd throw at him a ton. . .

dogfish
01-24-2014, 07:02 PM
I'mthinking Decker gets underestimated and owns Maxwell. If they use a safety on J Thomas, then Welker gets single coverage by P. Cox and he burns his rapey ass. Our screen game takes advantage of their aggression and does damage. On defense we slow down Lynch but get hurt by some big plays by their fast recievers. At the end of the day we win as Manning keeps them off the field and eats up clock in the 2nd half. We win by 10. 27-17

hey sexy. . .

:welcome:

rapey cox plays for the niners now, walter thurmond is the squawks' nickel. . . noticeably better player. . .

DenBronx
01-24-2014, 07:21 PM
That was a home game for Seattle. He was referring to road games. Seattle won't have the noise advantage in this game.


Seattle is very suspect on the road. I bet Metlife will be packed out with Broncos fans and a sea of orange.

DenBronx
01-24-2014, 07:25 PM
I agree; our running AND D have gotten progressively better in the playoffs, while their offense has been increasingly flat. To be fair, they faced much better defenses, and NEs offense was one-dimensional without Gronk; they ran decently (if not as well as claimed by the media trying to make lemonade out of lemons) but had no receiving threats.

On the other hand, SDs offense was good and balanced enough to drag a bad D to the playoffs (even if they lost Matthews after the first half against us) and their pass rush was underrated all year, yet we dominated them until we put the game away and started playing Prevent. Seattle trailed most of the game against SF until Kaep threw the game away in the fourth, and Wilson tried to give the game away on its very first scrimmage play.

I'm hoping Seattles inexperience and lack of adversity betrays them on the global stage, while our experience and overcoming adversity is decisive. One thing about it, if either team builds a big early lead, ours is much better built for comebacks (on the other hand, if one team's clinging to a thin late lead, theirs is much better built for running out the clock and preventing Hail Maries.)

I'm still more interested in our respective performances per attempt than raw totals though, because blowouts badly skew totals: That's why after a blowout-filled September our run D was ranked #1 but our pass D was ranked #31. Per attempt, it breaks down as:

Offensive Passing Yds/Att
Denver: 8.3 (3rd)
Seattle: 8.4 (2nd)

Offensive Rushing Yds/Att
Denver: 4.1 (20th)
Seattle: 4.3 (12th)

Defensive Passing Yds/Att
Denver: 7.1 (15th)
Seattle: 5.8 (1st)

Defensive Rushing Yds/Att
Denver: 3.9 (10th)
Seattle: 3.9 (7th)

Puts the matter in a whole other light: That supposedly awful Denver pass D is actually slightly above average, and Beast Mode's only slightly above average, too, not beastly at all. Seattles D really does stop the pass as well as advertised though, and their own passing is better, even slightly better than ours record-setting group: Seattle just doesn't pass unless it must, which has been very seldom. However, they'll probably have to against us, because our run D is as good as unadvertised, only negligibly worse than Seattles.

Our 20th ranked rushing average worries me though, because Seattle's not bad against the run, and we need to run well for MANY reasons. It slows pass rushes to give Manning and the line a break, and running well draws down safeties to thin coverage. It also rests and protects a patchwork Denver D built for speed at the expense of size, that can't afford more injuries or to be forced to run their sprints all game. It also wears down Seattles D so we can exploit them late in halves.

Plus the whole "offenses can't score from the sideline" doesn't just mean many chances will let good offenses bury teams; it also means bad offense need lots of chances to score AT ALL.



Lynch is going to get frustrated in this game. We can shut down the run but that's not the problem. It's our passing D......we can not give up big plays to Golden Tate and Percy Harvin. Russell is a good QB but nowhere near the level of lets say Rivers or Brady. If Wilson beats us deep consistantly then we deserve to lose. We can not allow them to convert 3rd downs.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-24-2014, 07:43 PM
Seattle is very suspect on the road. I bet Metlife will be packed out with Broncos fans and a sea of orange.

I wouldn't underestimate the Seattle fan base. Seattle is about 3 times the size of Denver, and they own about half of Idaho and all of Oregon.

chazoe60
01-24-2014, 07:45 PM
I'm rewatching the AFCCG and one thing I'm noticing that I didn't notice on the first viewing is that Michael Huff played very well covering the Pats' TEs. I realize the Pats TEs kinda suck since Gronk went out but it was still a good game by Huff. I noticed this mostly toward the end of the game.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-24-2014, 07:49 PM
I'm rewatching the AFCCG and one thing I'm noticing that I didn't notice on the first viewing is that Michael Huff played very well covering the Pats' TEs. I realize the Pats TEs kinda suck since Gronk went out but it was still a good game by Huff. I noticed this mostly toward the end of the game.

Maybe he'll recapture some of his Texas glory. :D

DenBronx
01-24-2014, 07:50 PM
I wouldn't underestimate the Seattle fan base. Seattle is about 3 times the size of Denver, and they own about half of Idaho and all of Oregon.

Seattles fan base isn't bigger than Denvers. I don't care if Seattle is bigger than Denver at all.....we have way more fans than they do. When I lived in Florida there were Denver fans everywhere. I have lived in California almost my whole life and there are millions on Denver fans here....millions! In fact everytime I go to bars for the games tons of Denver fans show up in their gear. Oakland stadium was packed out with orange last time we were there.

For all of you native Colorado people. Trust me....us Bronco fans represent outside of Colorado!


Land wise I will give you that but fan wise??? Not at all. Heck we are the new Americas team AW4M! :)

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-24-2014, 07:53 PM
Seattles fan base isn't bigger than Denvers. I don't care if Seattle is bigger than Denver at all.....we have way more fans than they do. When I lived in Florida there were Denver fans everywhere. I have lived in California almsot my whole life and there are millions on Denver fans here....millions! In fact everytime I go to bars for the games tons of Denver fans show up in their gear. Oakland stadium was packed out with orange last time we were there.

Land wise I will give you that but fan wise??? Not at all. Heck we are the new Americas team AW4M! :)

Dude, I understand we're America's team right now. I'm just saying, this isn't the Carolina Panther fan base we're talking about here. Seattle fans will have plenty opportunity to buy tickets. I think the way tickets are doled out it would be really hard for this to seem like a home game for Denver. I can't see bigger than a 60/40 advantage for Denver. Nevertheless, it won't be anything like a home game for Seattle, especially with the accoustical design of the stadium in Seattle. Manning should be able to call plays at the line just fine.

We will find there weakness.

Eight days from now, we ride.

Joel
01-24-2014, 07:53 PM
Seattle is very suspect on the road. I bet Metlife will be packed out with Broncos fans and a sea of orange.
They're really not, they're just better at home. On the road they're 6-2 against some very good teams, with wins against playoff calibre teams in Arizona and Carolina. The combined victory margin in those 2 road losses (which it ain't a lot) was just 8 pts: By 2 @SF (the team they narrowly beat at home in the NFCCG) and by 6 @Indy, which still had Reggie Wayne and was a good team then—they STILL needed a fluke FG block and TD return to avoid losing by 4 at home.

Seattle's a MONSTER at home, which makes me wonder about how flat their offense was in two home playoff games, but they're a darned good road team, too; just not AS good.


Lynch is going to get frustrated in this game. We can shut down the run but that's not the problem. It's our passing D......we can not give up big plays to Golden Tate and Percy Harvin. Russell is a good QB but nowhere near the level of lets say Rivers or Brady. If Wilson beats us deep consistantly then we deserve to lose. We can not allow them to convert 3rd downs.
I agree with that; stopping Lynch (which isn't guaranteed, but I'm optimistic about it) is only half the battle: IF we do that we THEN must stop Wilson, too.

I'm not as concerned about Harvin and Tate because I think DRC and Champ can handle them, but Baldwin has been their go-to guy all season, making plays when plays HAD to be made, and I'm not sure if Carter, Webster or whoever can handle him. It's not a matter of just giving safety help because it's not a matter of getting outsprinted: It's a matter of coverage, at all points on the field, and even with safety help it's unclear our other DBs can blanket him low OR high. This is where I REALLY miss Chris Harris.

Hopefully we can get to Wilson with 4-5 man pressure through his patchwork line, and our LBs aren't so tied up with coverage that he scampers free for 20-30 yds. When Seattle beat a very good Houston D on the road in OT, the sole reason they GOT to OT after being down 17 at the half was Wilson breaking contain and running for first downs throughout the second half. Fortunately, our front seven's done a pretty good job with every dual threat it faced this year, but we had Vickerson and Miller for most of those games.

This is gonna be a blowout or a nail-biter, but I'm not sure which or which way. I'd bet on one team winning by 3 or 30 before betting on one to win by 10 though.

DenBronx
01-24-2014, 08:01 PM
Dude, I understand we're America's team right now. I'm just saying, this isn't the Carolina Panther fan base we're talking about here. Seattle fans will have plenty opportunity to buy tickets. I think the way tickets are doled out it would be really hard for this to seem like a home game for Denver. I can't see bigger than a 60/40 advantage for Denver. Nevertheless, it won't be anything like a home game for Seattle, especially with the accoustical design of the stadium in Seattle. Manning should be able to call plays at the line just fine.

We will find there weakness.

Eight days from now, we ride.



One thing I will say, is the people in Seattle have $$$$. They do travel as well but not like our fans. I reference the game against the Cowboys. There was orange everywhere and even Aikman referenced that it seemed like a home game for Denver.


I do see more Seattle fans popping up lately but I think we are more fanatical nation and worldwide than them. They are a great home team but they don't have that going for them in NY.


Also, Richard Sherman might have single handedly made everyone else on the fense automatically become Broncos fans for this game. Lol

DenBronx
01-24-2014, 08:10 PM
They're really not, they're just better at home. On the road they're 6-2 against some very good teams, with wins against playoff calibre teams in Arizona and Carolina. The combined victory margin in those 2 road losses (which it ain't a lot) was just 8 pts: By 2 @SF (the team they narrowly beat at home in the NFCCG) and by 6 @Indy, which still had Reggie Wayne and was a good team then—they STILL needed a fluke FG block and TD return to avoid losing by 4 at home.

Seattle's a MONSTER at home, which makes me wonder about how flat their offense was in two home playoff games, but they're a darned good road team, too; just not AS good.


I agree with that; stopping Lynch (which isn't guaranteed, but I'm optimistic about it) is only half the battle: IF we do that we THEN must stop Wilson, too.

I'm not as concerned about Harvin and Tate because I think DRC and Champ can handle them, but Baldwin has been their go-to guy all season, making plays when plays HAD to be made, and I'm not sure if Carter, Webster or whoever can handle him. It's not a matter of just giving safety help because it's not a matter of getting outsprinted: It's a matter of coverage, at all points on the field, and even with safety help it's unclear our other DBs can blanket him low OR high. This is where I REALLY miss Chris Harris.

Hopefully we can get to Wilson with 4-5 man pressure through his patchwork line, and our LBs aren't so tied up with coverage that he scampers free for 20-30 yds. When Seattle beat a very good Houston D on the road in OT, the sole reason they GOT to OT after being down 17 at the half was Wilson breaking contain and running for first downs throughout the second half. Fortunately, our front seven's done a pretty good job with every dual threat it faced this year, but we had Vickerson and Miller for most of those games.

This is gonna be a blowout or a nail-biter, but I'm not sure which or which way. I'd bet on one team winning by 3 or 30 before betting on one to win by 10 though.



Well, we can all play the guessing game and it will be played thousands of more times before the game is actually played it's just going to come down to who wants it more. I hope our guys are MENTALLY ready for this challenge. Yes mentally, they must know they can beat the Seahawks.

Not sure what happened in preseason when we played them other than we just were running basic plays and vanilla offense and Seattle was trying to play like regular season. But I did take a look at that today. Seattle score 14 in the 1st Q and they score 17 in the 2nd Q while we only had 7 points. I know I know it's only preseason blah blah blah but I wanted to see the matchups and who was covering who and how they would line up against us. I think we learned a few things about them in that preseason game. Fast forward to the end of the season and we are a record setting offense. We must match their intensity as well. If they think they can shut down our offense they are in for a very long day.


But yeah....losing Chris Harris hurts us badly. I keep saying this, Champ has to have one more "Champ" game.....just one. He said it in his press conference today that he has one more in the tank. He's got to show up big. Del Rio has been using him perfectly during this playoff run.

Joel
01-24-2014, 08:56 PM
Well, we can all play the guessing game and it will be played thousands of more times before the game is actually played it's just going to come down to who wants it more. I hope our guys are MENTALLY ready for this challenge. Yes mentally, they must know they can beat the Seahawks.

Not sure what happened in preseason when we played them other than we just were running basic plays and vanilla offense and Seattle was trying to play like regular season. But I did take a look at that today. Seattle score 14 in the 1st Q and they score 17 in the 2nd Q while we only had 7 points. I know I know it's only preseason blah blah blah but I wanted to see the matchups and who was covering who and how they would line up against us. I think we learned a few things about them in that preseason game. Fast forward to the end of the season and we are a record setting offense. We must match their intensity as well. If they think they can shut down our offense they are in for a very long day.

But yeah....losing Chris Harris hurts us badly. I keep saying this, Champ has to have one more "Champ" game.....just one. He said it in his press conference today that he has one more in the tank. He's got to show up big. Del Rio has been using him perfectly during this playoff run.
I'd LOVE for Champ to come out with just one more game like we've all come to cherish him for playing, just balls to the wall and break the game open like he did against Brady in '05. That kind of storybook ending seems like it belongs more in storybooks though, unless the NFL really IS the WWF. And even if Champ DOES have a game like that, and DRC quietly shuts down his man as he has all season, Seattle's allowed to play with >2 WRs just like we are, so we'll need Carter and another DB (either the burnt toast with his thumb in a cast or the over-the-hill Charger.)

We need pressure with no blitz, and I've heard their line's beat up, but the injury report just shows CBs and a DE on IR/PUP, with everyone else listed as probable for the SB. IF we can do that though, and our LBs can contain Wilson without giving up dump offs as well as they have against everyone else, we should be OK IF we can contain Lynch equally well. That's a lot of "ifs".

Meanwhile, Clark can't get smoked by Clemons/Avril the way he was in three straight games by Mathis, a Bolt whose name I forget, and Orakpo. Beadles can't let Mebane use him to club Moreno and Ball to death. We can't get flagged for offensive PI while their DBs clothesline our WRs. So many "ifs". Wait and see....

NightTerror218
01-24-2014, 09:00 PM
I am worried about turnovers. Forced mistakes will doom the broncos. Fumbles or tipped balls that are nit can tip this game into seattle favor. They are one of the best teams at forcing turnovers and we are one of the worst fumbling teams.

I also think that with our offense they will not be able to have their safeties ball hawking as often as normal. But if manning is getting pressure then we can be in trouble.....like Colts game. I think they will play us similar to the Colts on defense.

Thwir offense will be typical lynch however more bootlegs for wilson.

MOtorboat
01-24-2014, 09:39 PM
Dog, breakdown the DT/Sherman match up for me.

Sherman plays the left and Browner plays the right, so the two will match up against all of our receivers. I think Browner is actually the worse matchup for Demaryius Thomas because he's bigger. Sure, Sherman is the better cornerback, but Browner is a little bigger. That said, Browner and Sherman are the biggest combo of cornerbacks in the league, and they can both run. It's no doubt a tough match up.

Thurmond can't keep up with Welker, which means they will double Welker, for sure. I think they have the personnel to do it. I heard Aikman on with Mike Tirico this evening and he was talking about how Seattle doesn't disguise their defense much, and it is what it is, and he's right. It's mostly a cover-one shell with man-to-man underneath (a few switches on bunch formations, like switching on picks in basketball). They also play a lot of under fronts with Bruce Irvin playing basically the Von Miller role. But I think they'll try to disguise some underneath zones, maybe do some zone blitzes, to try and offset the advantage Denver has in the slot with Welker.

That might open up Julius Thomas quite a bit. There's no doubt that they've been tough on tight ends, statistically. But they haven't played a team that has the caliber of tight end as Thomas and he's the fourth option. The closest example is Arizona in the first matchup when Fitzgerald was healthy. Not to mention, Arizona is the only offense that's even remotely similar to Denver's that Seattle has played. Lots of crossing routes, lots of vertical-underneath combo routes. Not precisely the same, but similar concepts (Arizona likes to run a little more vertical than Denver, with less crossing routes). And with a healthy Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd and Andre Roberts, sure enough, some guy named Rob Housler (I had to look him up too) caught seven passes for 53 yards, all in the second half.

But likewise, I don't think Denver has played anything remotely looking like the Seattle defense. Maybe Dog can think of a defense that Denver played that's similar, but I can't. We played against a lot of 3-4, zone teams this year. Kansas City plays pretty straight up, I guess. I'll have to go back and look at that first game to see how their secondary played Denver to see if its similar to how Seattle played Arizona.

dogfish
01-24-2014, 09:57 PM
MO, browner's been out like half the season-- byron maxwell is their other starting corner. . .

MOtorboat
01-24-2014, 10:00 PM
MO, browner's been out like half the season-- byron maxwell is their other starting corner. . .

My bad...game I watched against Arizona he was still in.

Whoops...I'll have to watch a game with him in...maybe that Saints game again. (regular season).

MOtorboat
01-24-2014, 10:01 PM
I don't think they changed that scheme much though.

dogfish
01-24-2014, 10:07 PM
I don't think they changed that scheme much though.

no, i agree, and your post is sound. . . i am interested to see if they double welker right off the hop, though. . . i do think it's our best matchup, but he hasn't been super productive in recent weeks. . . i'm hoping they'll be arrogant enough to try to man him up, at least initially. . .

DenBronx
01-24-2014, 10:14 PM
Browner was suspended, I think indefinitely.

I am more worried about Seattles safeties than anything. Lets say Sherman slows down DT....he's not going to stop him but I think he might slow him down. Which leaves Welker, Decker and JT left to beat their guys. Decker might have a huge game.

Poet
01-24-2014, 10:21 PM
slim, you'd do better asking coach, but i'll take a shot. . .

i haven't watched them enough to know just how much they do it, but they do move sherman around to match him with top receivers-- i know they've done a good job keeping him locked on calvin johnson in the past. . . i do anticipate that he'll be on DT most of the time when they're in man, and it's going to be a fun matchup to watch. . . they're both among the best at their position, but IMO, DT is the more purely physically gifted, where sherman is stronger technically and fundamentally. . . not that dick isn't a good athlete, or DT hasn't made significant strides on his route-running and whatnot, but i think they do rely on different strengths. . .

we know that sherman's very aggressive and physical, and that he's going to want to jam DT at the line as much as he can-- it's how they always play, and it's also the best way to disrupt our timing offense. . . a whole lot of the contest between the two's gonna get settled right there, at the LOS. . . our guys did struggle with physical press coverage earlier in the season-- how well DT plays against it on sunday will have a big impact on the game. . . if sherman can't consistently disrupt DT at the line, it will affect how they play their safeties. . . sherman doesn't have elite catch-up speed if he gives up a free release, and DT WILL wreck your gameplan if you start letting him get loose down the field. . .

i think a lot of it will come down to DT's mindset. . . he certainly has the physical tools to beat sherman. . . will he match sherman's aggressive mentality and determination? would love to see it-- if he does, we gain a tremendous edge, and could walk away with it. . . honestly though, i think welker vs. thurmond or decker against maxwell will be our most advantageous matchups, and i kinda expect peyton to challenge those two more than sherman. . . rightfully so, IMO-- dude is a MAJOR ballhawk, and a lot of that comes from his smarts. . . for a player of his experience, he's uncanny at diagnosing route combinations, and he has a serious nose for the ball. . . plus long arms, great hops, and good hands. . . not sure i'd throw at him a ton. . .

Sherman can get beaten deep. Hilton did it to him, Green did it to him, White did it to him, and Marshall did as well. Thomas is going to be an interesting matchup because he's strong enough to not get abused by Sherman, and he's fast enough to punish him. I'm not banking on DT having a big day, but he could very well end up with 3 catches for 55 yards and a score.

I think this game comes down to Welker and Moreno. I don't think Decker or either Thomas' are going to do much. But, the Hawks offense is awful and Russel Wilson is simply mediocre at QB. If Denver can manage to not let Tate and Ingram beat you guys, and Lynch doesn't get 125 plus on the ground an average offensive performance could do it for Denver.

MOtorboat
01-24-2014, 10:45 PM
Sherman can get beaten deep. Hilton did it to him, Green did it to him, White did it to him, and Marshall did as well. Thomas is going to be an interesting matchup because he's strong enough to not get abused by Sherman, and he's fast enough to punish him. I'm not banking on DT having a big day, but he could very well end up with 3 catches for 55 yards and a score.

I think this game comes down to Welker and Moreno. I don't think Decker or either Thomas' are going to do much. But, the Hawks offense is awful and Russel Wilson is simply mediocre at QB. If Denver can manage to not let Tate and Ingram beat you guys, and Lynch doesn't get 125 plus on the ground an average offensive performance could do it for Denver.

You know I think Julius Thomas and Moreno each have a chance to have a big impact because of Seattle's corners. Manning is the best in the game in finding the open guy and Moreno and Thomas might be open a lot.

They kept Thurmond in the slot, didn't they Dog?

dogfish
01-24-2014, 10:51 PM
They kept Thurmond in the slot, didn't they Dog?

yea, they did. . .

Poet
01-24-2014, 10:53 PM
You know I think Julius Thomas and Moreno each have a chance to have a big impact because of Seattle's corners. Manning is the best in the game in finding the open guy and Moreno and Thomas might be open a lot.

They kept Thurmond in the slot, didn't they Dog?

The Hawks can take away any tight end. What they can't do is take away Welker. Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu couldn't do that in their prime, there's no way that Thomas or Chancellor can. I don't think any LB on their team could do it, either. The Hawks can definitely be run on though, and Moreno is a tough dude. He also knows how to block and can punish people on a screen. On a sidenote, I could also see Tamme coming into the game and making a big play or two. Maybe Denver will get lucky and the refs will properly enforce the defensive rules against Sherman.

I do worry about Manning, though. Bennett and Avril get a lot of strip sacks, and Manning's mobility is bad. If they turn that corner and Manning has the ball, he's going to get rocked.

Simple Jaded
01-25-2014, 01:55 AM
I think the Potroast vs Unger matchup is gonna be pivotal.

Slick
01-25-2014, 05:25 PM
I think the Potroast vs Unger matchup is gonna be pivotal.

He beasted on Mankins last Sunday. Be nice to see a repeat performance.

Slick
01-25-2014, 05:27 PM
Week from today, ladies and gentlemen. Hopefully I'll be busy all week to help the time pass faster.

Superbowl!!!!

Slick
01-25-2014, 05:28 PM
Week from today, ladies and gentlemen. Hopefully I'll be busy all week to help the time pass faster.

Superbowl!!!!

Hey dumbass. Today is Saturday.

:bandit:

Joel
01-25-2014, 06:03 PM
Browner was suspended, I think indefinitely.
Yeah, I've seen a couple ESPN and NFL.com articles on him fighting the suspension hard (but failing) because both groups of writers say he's basically done now: No one wants a 31 year old CB with three strikes, so the year long suspension effectively ends his career. Not sure I buy that, but he's probably looking at DRC-like contracts for a couple years, then ignominous retirement.

The most interesting thing about that was he never denied testing positive, but insisted throughout that it was for substance abuse (which is wholly separate from the PED program: A strike in one doesn't count as a strike in the other any more than a fine for an illegal hit does.) He managed to get a statement from the NFL agreeing that was the case, and corrections from media outlets that initially reported it as yet another PED violation—yet he still went from a 2nd PED strike last year to a 3rd substance abuse strike this year; unless he's had some other substance abuse suspensions I missed, something ain't right there.

The most AMUSING thing about this aspect of the Legion of Dope is that Thurmond replaced Browner during his PED suspension last year, then Browner replaced Thurmond during HIS drug suspension this year and now Thurmond's back but Browner's suspended AGAIN, this time for a year. I can actually almost buy Richard Shermans claim he only tested positive for Adderall because he used a teammates waterbottle: Grab ANY waterbottle at random up there, and it's probably doped. :tsk:

Sorry for the long commentary, but that systemic problem and the equally systemic thuggery of brazenly calling themselves the "Legion of Boom" in the No Boom League is a lot of why I want to beat them, and why I'm so incensed at Belicheat trying to get the refs watching Welkers supposed "thuggery" instead of their ACTUAL Vitamin X-fed thuggery.


I am more worried about Seattles safeties than anything. Lets say Sherman slows down DT....he's not going to stop him but I think he might slow him down. Which leaves Welker, Decker and JT left to beat their guys. Decker might have a huge game.
A lot depends on Chancellor, IMHO, which may mean a lot depends on Knowshon and Ball. Chancellor's built and basically plays like a 4th LB (then again, the difference between that and a top SS is often slim.) If he's coming up to play the run he can't help out with WRs much, especially deep; if the front seven can stop the run, he has more flexibility.

I don't think they can cover ALL our receiving threats all game though, not without egregious cheating. Their safeties are good (though Chancellor seems more opportunistic than an elite cover man,) and so is Sherman, but I'm less convinced of Maxwell and Thurmond. Those guys aren't BAD, but must be more than merely good to hang with Deck and Welker.