Aaaand Here We Go: Walter Thurmond Says Welkers Non-Pick Should Have Been Flagged

[Joel]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/10338075/walter-thurmond-seattle-seahawks-says-wes-welker-hit-uncalled-for

So I guess the brazenly self-proclaimed "Legion of Boom" is taking carte-blanche to level 5'9" 185 lb. Welker (and anyone else,) not get flagged and say we were asking for it because we're such thugs. Because trying to pass in 20° weather 5-10 mph winds and a 30% chance of snow won't be hard enough. Did Manning say something about Goddells mother or something? :tsk:

[BroncoWave]

Meh. Don't care. I'm kinda over this story. The worst part of the Super Bowl is all the filler BS in the 2 weeks in between.

[WTE]

Walter Thurmond is right. He said a flag and a fine. Smart kid that Walter.

[Dzone]

I care about every little damn thing that has to do with the super bowl! I need more more more filler!!! lol...Im going crazy waiting 2 weeks for this. Im all in on this thing.
Ya, Thurmaond talking crap about welker, yes, we need to know about that.
They are going to try and bring the lumber on all our receivers. I have a feeling our D is going to be doing the same to theirs. I think Marshawn Lynch might be lucky to get 2 ypc

[GEM]

Walter Thurmond is right. He said a flag and a fine. Smart kid that Walter.

Guess Edelman should be suspended then....right? :D

[WTE]

Guess Edelman should be suspended then....right? :D

No, the ball was in the air for a good two seconds on the Edelman legal hit.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

No, the ball was in the air for a good two seconds on the Edelman legal hit.

Well, actually Edleman's was a crack back block in which he launched himself at DRC's chin. I was really relieved he didn't have a concussion, or worst yet, a broken neck.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Smart kid that Walter.

I wonder how many times that's been said before?

[Joel]

Walter Thurmond is right. He said a flag and a fine. Smart kid that Walter.
Well, I don't know if he's SMART; he is coming off a doping suspension (but hey, name 3 Seahawk DBs who aren't.) He IS a thug who likes hypocritically invoking rules he routinely ignores though; maybe BB should give him a call. ;) Why are you still here anyway? Isn't there a site somewhere you can talk about your OWN teams next ga—oh... guess not.... :tongue:


No, the ball was in the air for a good two seconds on the Edelman legal hit.
Um... it may be news in NE, but if the ball's in the air that doesn't make a hit legal, but ILLEGAL. That's why Welker would've been flagged if DT hadn't been dropping the ball when he hit Talib.

[Joel]

I care about every little damn thing that has to do with the super bowl! I need more more more filler!!! lol...Im going crazy waiting 2 weeks for this. Im all in on this thing.
Ya, Thurmaond talking crap about welker, yes, we need to know about that.
They are going to try and bring the lumber on all our receivers. I have a feeling our D is going to be doing the same to theirs. I think Marshawn Lynch might be lucky to get 2 ypc
This is what bothers me: Seattle ALWAYS does that; that's why they've been brazenly calling themselves the "Legion of Boom" for about 3 years now, and to Hell with the new league safety rules Thurmond mocks in the article; he's pretty much been mocking them for three seasons. Yet thanks to Belicheat everyone's working the refs now to get them to flag 5'9" 185 lb. double-concussed Welker and, y'know, if one of their DBs lays out him or anyone else, they were just fighting back, right?

All season opposing DBs have mugged our WRs because they CAN'T COVER all of them, and Decker and DT don't like to fight jams and shove back, plus they often get called for offensive PI when they DO. After all, if our passing offense is so great, they shouldn't need to do that, and if opponents get a little grabby and pushy, well, maybe they need the help. Meanwhile, Seattles DBs mug everyone as if they're playing in the pre-PI era and the sole team exempt from the leagues precious new rules, yet the league seems to agree.

Against THAT backdrop, the last thing we need is refs peering closely at any and all contact our WRs make and ignoring any and all contact their DBs make.

[Dzone]

Would be great to have a few PI and defensive holding penalties called against seattle in the first drive. That would set the tone for the day.

[Dzone]

No, the ball was in the air for a good two seconds on the Edelman legal hit.
can you Show us the video of the dirty edelman hit?

[topscribe]

5'9", 185 lbs., 2 concussions this year, and he's the enforcer.

Hmmm . . . makes sense . . . if you're a mental midget . . . :coffee:
.

[Army Bronco]

Bringing up this Welker hit is called trolling. Thurmond is trolling. Seattle seems to run their mouths as much as they like to play football. And M Lynch wants attention by not speaking to the media...lol Everyone is giving him all this extra attention for it at least.

[TXBRONC]

No, the ball was in the air for a good two seconds on the Edelman legal hit.

No he launched himself at DRC and that is a foul.

[Davii]

Walter Thurmond is right. He said a flag and a fine. Smart kid that Walter.

http://sheerfluency.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/crybaby.jpg


No, the ball was in the air for a good two seconds on the Edelman legal hit.

http://sheerfluency.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/crybaby.jpg

[broncofaninfla]

I hope Seattle keeps running their mouths, locker room banter can't hurt......................

[Joel]

I hope Seattle keeps running their mouths, locker room banter can't hurt......................
I hope they're as overconfident as they appear, we take an early double digit lead and their young team collapses under the first real adversity they've faced. Not betting on it though.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I am so over this. The NFL stated legal hit - that's definitely good enough for me.

[Northman]

I am so over this. The NFL stated legal hit - that's definitely good enough for me.

Agreed.

Considering how ticky tack they are with most things safety related this speaks volumes in terms of legality of the hit.

[Joel]

I am so over this. The NFL stated legal hit - that's definitely good enough for me.
I hope it's good enough for the NFL in the SB, and that they don't let the Seahawk DBs get away with murder (like they've let them do all season) because "we asked for it."

[MNPatsFan]

Well, actually Edleman's was a crack back block in which he launched himself at DRC's chin. I was really relieved he didn't have a concussion, or worst yet, a broken neck.What???

Do you even know what a crack back block is?:confused:

According to the NFL rules, a crack back block is:


Crackback: Eligible receivers who take or move to a position more than two yards outside the tackle may not block an opponent below the waist if they then move back inside to block.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/definitions

Edelman didn't block DRC below the waist so by definition it isn't an illegal crack back block.;)

[MNPatsFan]

Guess Edelman should be suspended then....right? :DWhy? His hit was legal.

[MNPatsFan]

Um... it may be news in NE, but if the ball's in the air that doesn't make a hit legal, but ILLEGAL. That's why Welker would've been flagged if DT hadn't been dropping the ball when he hit Talib.Actually the video clearly shows Welker hit Talib before the ball touched DT's hands. Blandino admitted as much in his explanation:

“The first potential foul would be for offensive pass interference; a receiver can't block downfield before the ball is touched, so the timing is important,” he said. “The contact occurs, the ball is touched almost simultaneously. We don't have a foul for pass interference.” By stating almost, Blandio was admitting that Welker hit Talib before the ball was touched by DT.

[MOtorboat]

Misread the beginning of his posts...apologies...still...


Actually the video clearly shows Welker hit Talib before the ball touched DT's hands. Blandino admitted as much in his explanation:

“The first potential foul would be for offensive pass interference; a receiver can't block downfield before the ball is touched, so the timing is important,” he said. “The contact occurs, the ball is touched almost simultaneously. We don't have a foul for pass interference.” By stating almost, Blandio was admitting that Welker hit Talib before the ball was touched by DT.

"We don't have a foul for pass interference." Key phrase.

[MNPatsFan]

No he launched himself at DRC and that is a foul.No it isn't because he was blocking for Collie AFTER the catch and DRC wasn't defenseless at the time. DRC was trying to make the tackle and was legally blocked by Edelman.

To prove my point, here is the NFL rule:


LEGAL AND ILLEGAL BLOCK
Article 1
A player of either team may block (obstruct or impede)
an opponent at any time, provided that
the act is not:
(a) pass interference;
(b) illegal contact;
(c) fair catch interference;
(d) clipping against a non-runner;
(e) an illegal chop block;
(f) an illegal crackback block;
(g) an illegal low block during a free kick, scrimmag
e kick, or after a change of possession;
(h) unnecessary roughness;
(i) roughing the passer;
(j) an illegal cut block;
(k) roughing the kicker;
(l) offensive or defensive holding;
(m) illegal use of hands;
(n) tripping;
(o) illegal peel back block; and
(p) illegal blindside block

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf

Please identify under which of these violations Edleman's block allegedly falls?:confused:

I'll answer it for you .... NONE of them. Only one it could possibly fall under is unnecessary roughness, but it wasn't unnecessary roughness for a number of reasons.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

What???

Do you even know what a crack back block is?:confused:

According to the NFL rules, a crack back block is:



http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/definitions

Edelman didn't block DRC below the waist so by definition it isn't an illegal crack back block.;)

I wasn't being serious. I was combating an outlandish statement with one of my own.

[MNPatsFan]

I wasn't being serious. I was combating an outlandish statement with one of my own.Oh, okay. Then in that case sorry and carry on!!!:laugh:

[chazoe60]

You know the rule that really mattered in that game? The team with the most points wins, now sit down and quit whining Patsie fan pussies.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Oh, okay. Then in that case sorry and carry on!!!:laugh:

The concern over a broken neck was your tip. :D

[Joel]

Misread the beginning of his posts...apologies...still...

"We don't have a foul for pass interference." Key phrase.
Exactly: Thomas touches the ball and Welker touches Talib so close to the same time I'm not even sure which is first, but I've been screaming for years for refs to call PI when DBs and LBs hit WRs an instant before the ball arrives, but not so close one can't tell which is first: They NEVER do. They're not gonna flag Welker for something a lot closer than stuff they let go a dozen times or more in every game. The whole thing was incidental in the first place; the suggestion a guy Welkers size would go seeking his 3rd concussion in 2 months is laughable.

[Davii]

Pats fans: you lost, we won, quit crying. Act like men.

[MNPatsFan]

You know the rule that really mattered in that game? The team with the most points winsI'm not disputing that. You know what other rule also really matters, the better team or the team that plays better wins and I already admitted the Broncos were the better team in that game.:salute:


now sit down and quit whining Patsie fan pussies.I don't feel or believe I am whining. I am merely engaging in conversation on posts or positions I disagree with. If you feel I am whining, please identify my post(s) in which you think I am whining.

[Ravage!!!]

Actually the video clearly shows Welker hit Talib before the ball touched DT's hands. Blandino admitted as much in his explanation:

“The first potential foul would be for offensive pass interference; a receiver can't block downfield before the ball is touched, so the timing is important,” he said. “The contact occurs, the ball is touched almost simultaneously. We don't have a foul for pass interference.” By stating almost, Blandio was admitting that Welker hit Talib before the ball was touched by DT.

Except for the fact that the NFL officials have said that the hit was COMPLETELY legal. Before you say "yeah they would".. they ahve said that the fumble recovery by the 49ers on the goalline was the WRONG call, and the roughing the kicker call call was wrong designation. So its not like they aren't willing to admit when a bad call happened on the field.

Not that it matters. Greg Cosell pointed out that DT was running "away" from Talib from the first drive one. Did it again on drive 2, and on drive three spun Talib in circles to catch a 20+ yrd reception. Talib was WAYYYY behind DT on that catch he got injured. Talib's injury didn't stop anything.

Not only has every film study showed that the hit was legal, but the NFL Officials have reviewed the play and said it was absolutely the right call. In FACT, the NFL official that consults with Fox during the game, said on the Mike and Mike show that Wes Welker COULD have hit Talib up COULD have led with the shoulder, and hit Talib around the neck/head, and it would have been PERFECTLY legal. There is nothing... NOTHING...illegal about Welker's block on Talib. Period.

But it is HILARIOUS that the Pats fans, of ALLLLLLL the fans in the NFL, want to complain about a call on the field. I mean, we can go through the history of their playoff wins and show the lame calls that have gone their way. How many PI calls has that team relied upon over the year to get Brady within FG range? The fact that they are complaining about a LEGAL hit, is effing priceless!

[MNPatsFan]

Exactly: Thomas touches the ball and Welker touches Talib so close to the same time I'm not even sure which is first, but I've been screaming for years for refs to call PI when DBs and LBs hit WRs an instant before the ball arrives, but not so close one can't tell which is first: They NEVER do. They're not gonna flag Welker for something a lot closer than stuff they let go a dozen times or more in every game. The whole thing was incidental in the first place; the suggestion a guy Welkers size would go seeking his 3rd concussion in 2 months is laughable.I don't think that Welker tried to injure Talib, but I don't believe it was incidental because Welker clearly alters his route in order to try to pick Talib. If Welker had continued running his route and had collided with Talib then that would be incidental. But when a receiver alters their route to run directly at or into the DBs path and never looks for the ball, that is not incidental.

I also disagree with your assertion because I am pretty sure that if the play had been reversed with the defensive player (Patriots or Broncos) had run into the offensive player under the exact same circumstances the officials would have called defensive PI. My frustration is more with the failure to enforce the rules evenly to equally protect both offensive and defensive players. A number of present and former defensive players are saying the exact same thing using the Welker play to illustrate that point. I happen to agree with them. This isn't a Broncos vs Patriots issue so much as an offense vs defense issue in my opinion.

[MNPatsFan]

Not only has every film study showed that the hit was legal, but the NFL Officials have reviewed the play and said it was absolutely the right call.Not disputing that the NFL said it was the right call, but I am pretty sure that you have previously claimed that the NFL has made the wrong ruling after reviewing the play. Without going through threads, I think the penalty called against the 49er's LB for the hit on Brees that allowed the Saints to win the game was one such incident. I personally think the NFL copped out and made the easy, but incorrect call. I would have said the same thing if it was the Patriots receiver running into the Broncos DB before the ball touched the WR's hands.

Not all film study showed that the hit was legal. I have watched a number of former players on ESPN and NFLN review the play and say that offensive PI should have been called.


But it is HILARIOUS that the Pats fans, of ALLLLLLL the fans in the NFL, want to complain about a call on the field. I mean, we can go through the history of their playoff wins and show the lame calls that have gone their way. How many PI calls has that team relied upon over the year to get Brady within FG range? The fact that they are complaining about a LEGAL hit, is effing priceless!As I said in a previous post, I don't view this as a Patriots vs. Broncos issue. I view it as an offense vs defense issue where the offense gets the call while the defense doesn't.

[MNPatsFan]

Pats fans: you lost, we won, quit crying. Act like men.Yes we lost. Yes you won. I am not crying. Guess I'm not supposed to engage in discussion on topics I might disagree with you just because my team lost to your team.:rolleyes:

[BroncoWave]

Yes we lost. Yes you won. I am not crying. Guess I'm not supposed to engage in discussion on topics I might disagree with you just because my team lost to your team.:rolleyes:

I'm kinda with you on this one. I disagree with you as far as the play is concerned, but I don't see it as you whining because the Pats lost. Had the game gone the other way and it was a Pat WR who injured Champ, many of our fans would be outraged by it.

[Ravage!!!]

Not all film study showed that the hit was legal. I have watched a number of former players on ESPN and NFLN review the play and say that offensive PI should have been called.
Players. I'm not looking at players because they ahve their own bias...whether they were offensive players, defensive, a defensive back, or a WR. Maybe they don't like the Broncos, or grew up a Patriots fan. Former players aren't NFL officials.


As I said in a previous post, I don't view this as a Patriots vs. Broncos issue. I view it as an offense vs defense issue where the offense gets the call while the defense doesn't.

Eh... maybe you say that. But I'm not buying it. I don't believe had this happened in the opposite direction (meaning yoru WR and our DB)..you would be here debating on BEHALF of the defensive player. You are here because you were on that end of the stick.

I think the point is that this was not an illegal hit. From that point forward, the complaints about "being consistant"...or any other gripe about it not being called, is moot. It was a LEGAL block. If you have try, and try, and try.. to find the millisecond moment that the ball touches the hand and when Welker hits Talib...then there is NO WAY you can actually complain that this was a "bad call." Not only did Welker lead with the shoulder, and hit in the MIDDLE of the body, but it was timed perfectly. Perfect plays happen, and along with that....bad things happen.

Talib was injured on the play. As a New England fan, that sucks for your team and I TOTALLY understand the frustration that causes as we have had a LARGE number of injuries ourselves. But the loss of Talib didn't cost you the game. That call.... or non-call considering that's how you view it... didn't cost you the game.

[Davii]

Yes we lost. Yes you won. I am not crying. Guess I'm not supposed to engage in discussion on topics I might disagree with you just because my team lost to your team.:rolleyes:

Let's assume Wes was flagged. The outcome doesn't change as DT dropped the pass and we punted, Patriots still lose, Broncos still in the Superbowl.

[BroncoWave]

But the loss of Talib didn't cost you the game. That call.... or non-call considering that's how you view it... didn't cost you the game.

Where has NEP claimed that in this thread? In fact he said in post #33 that Denver was the better team and deserved to win.

[Nomad]

Let's assume Wes was flagged. The outcome doesn't change as DT dropped the pass and we punted, Patriots still lose, Broncos still in the Superbowl.

What I've heard from Patriot fans at work, is if Welker didn't do the pick, then the outcome would if been different because Talib would have shut them down

[MNPatsFan]

Players. I'm not looking at players because they ahve their own bias...whether they were offensive players, defensive, a defensive back, or a WR. Maybe they don't like the Broncos, or grew up a Patriots fan. Former players aren't NFL officials.



Eh... maybe you say that. But I'm not buying it. I don't believe had this happened in the opposite direction (meaning yoru WR and our DB)..you would be here debating on BEHALF of the defensive player. You are here because you were on that end of the stick.

I think the point is that this was not an illegal hit. From that point forward, the complaints about "being consistant"...or any other gripe about it not being called, is moot. It was a LEGAL block. If you have try, and try, and try.. to find the millisecond moment that the ball touches the hand and when Welker hits Talib...then there is NO WAY you can actually complain that this was a "bad call." Not only did Welker lead with the shoulder, and hit in the MIDDLE of the body, but it was timed perfectly. Perfect plays happen, and along with that....bad things happen.We will just have to agree to disagree on whether the hit was legal.:D


Talib was injured on the play. As a New England fan, that sucks for your team and I TOTALLY understand the frustration that causes as we have had a LARGE number of injuries ourselves. But the loss of Talib didn't cost you the game. That call.... or non-call considering that's how you view it... didn't cost you the game.I have never said that play, call or non-call cost the Pats the game. I have consistently said the Broncos were the better team and deserved to win the game. I just didn't like the play or the NFL's validation of the play.

[broken12]

Nfl turning point on nbc sports had a great breakdown on the play .....pats did it plentybpf times in the game and Edelman and the other keebler elves tried time and time again to do similar plays if not worse

[MNPatsFan]

What I've heard from Patriot fans at work, is if Welker didn't do the pick, then the outcome would if been different because Talib would have shut them downWell I haven't said that and IMHO that is complete speculation. From my perspective the Broncos were the better team and would have won regardless of that play.

[Ravage!!!]

We will just have to agree to disagree on whether the hit was legal.:D



Hah, fair enough, but with all do respect, I have actual NFL officials and the NFL Officials office to back up my opinion. :wink:

[MNPatsFan]

Hah, fair enough, but with all do respect, I have actual NFL officials and the NFL Officials office to back up my opinion. :wink:Yes you do, but you can be sure that I will bring these posts of yours back to haunt you when you are ranting about an NFL ruling that you disagree with.;)

:laugh:

[Ravage!!!]

Yes you do, but you can be sure that I will bring these posts of yours back to haunt you when you are ranting about an NFL ruling that you disagree with.;)

:laugh:

I can see that.

Although, I dn't complain about the "calls" themselves, very much. I usually complain about the rules much more than how they are called. I actually believe the refs do a damn good job with calls considering.

(But I STILL cringe everytime they show the replay of that Punt 93 yrd punt return by the chiefs when there were TWO BLATANT blocks in the back right in front of the returner and REF!! Horrible.. HORRIBLE.. non-calls!!)