View Full Version : Is this season a success right now?
VonDoom
01-21-2014, 06:07 PM
Look, we all want to win the Super Bowl, right? But let's hypothetically say that the unthinkable happens on 2/2 and we lose that game. Do you still consider this season to be a success? Many people said "Super Bowl or bust" before the season. So does that mean win the game or just get there? We've had a terrific season with records galore, and overcame many of the obstacles that people said we couldn't (you know, win in the cold, win a playoff game with Manning, beat the Patriots) and we're sitting here as AFC Champions. But with Manning's window closing, if we don't win now, this might be it. So what say you?
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-21-2014, 06:15 PM
I would consider it a success as long as we don't get blown out. That would leave a bad taste in my mouth, in fact just saying that is bring back bad memories.
:banghead:
I said when we signed Manning we needed a SB or AT LEAST an AFCCG within 2 years or we were just spinning our wheels. I stand by that. We have something to build on now, and are close enough that "we'll get 'em next year" would sound more like a promise than denial. That said, life and SBs offer few second chances; we blew a big one last year and can't afford two straight. The Chiefs aren't going anywhere, SD will probably improve, and we plowed the AFC this year only to see the NFC become VERY good and produce three VERY complete contenders.
Strike while the iron is hot, Broncos; you may not get a third chance. But, yes, this season is a success right now—just not finished. FINISH STRONG, BRONCOS! :salute:
DenBronx
01-21-2014, 06:29 PM
Yes, it's already huge success.
But why not just win one more and cement this as the best TEAM in history?
BroncoWave
01-21-2014, 06:30 PM
Absolutely. The Super Bowl itself is just such a crapshoot. Anything can happen after the hooplah of the 2 weeks off. Just getting there is a roaring success.
Northman
01-21-2014, 06:34 PM
Yes, we made the SB. Whether we lose or not is irrelevant we at least have a legitimate shot to win it all.
weazel
01-21-2014, 06:35 PM
I think so. I'm just happy the Broncos has an owner that wants to win. There are the odd bad seasons but for the most part, this team is generally in the running for the playoffs, could you imagine being a Browns fan? I think I would have given up on football a long time ago.
BroncoJoe
01-21-2014, 06:42 PM
I'm very pleased with the season, but....
li9bby_Vyms
DenBronx
01-21-2014, 06:47 PM
Yes, we made the SB. Whether we lose or not is irrelevant we at least have a legitimate shot to win it all.
Maybe you should "wait and see". You know wait until after we win to believe. Haha
VonDoom
01-21-2014, 06:50 PM
I'm very pleased with the season, but....
li9bby_Vyms
Props on the obscure Springsteen song reference!
Northman
01-21-2014, 06:51 PM
Maybe you should "wait and see". You know wait until after we win to believe. Haha
Nah im good now. I waited and now i see we made it.
VonDoom
01-21-2014, 06:54 PM
I'm glad to see everyone is on board (so far). Sometimes it's hard to gauge the general mood around here, but I guess I was just trying to see if everyone appreciated what they were seeing this year. This is a great team and it's been a wonderful ride. Joel is correct - these chances don't come along every year, no matter how good the core of the team is. I'll certainly be disappointed if we don't win, and obviously Seahawks fans would feel the same way - we feel like we're on top of the world with only one game left to win. Let's finish it off right; I'll be telling my kids about this season in the same way that I talk about 97 and 98.
DenBronx
01-21-2014, 06:58 PM
Nah im good now. I waited and now i see we made it.
Just giving you shit.
elsid13
01-21-2014, 07:04 PM
No. The team came into the season with one goal in mind; winning the Superbowl anything else would be failure. We aren't the KC Chefs hoping to make the playoffs.
DenBronx
01-21-2014, 07:08 PM
No. The team came into the season with one goal in mind; winning the Superbowl anything else would be failure. We aren't the KC Chefs hoping to make the playoffs.
We didnt just make it to the playoffs though. We won the AFC Championship and we also are going to the SB.
But I get your point and would still be very dissapointed if we lose.
Northman
01-21-2014, 07:09 PM
No. The team came into the season with one goal in mind; winning the Superbowl anything else would be failure. We aren't the KC Chefs hoping to make the playoffs.
The Chiefs have not been to the SB in over 30 years. Denver has never been that bad but considering how hard it is too even make the SB i still call the season a massive success of even reaching it.
elsid13
01-21-2014, 07:11 PM
The Chiefs have not been to the SB in over 30 years. Denver has never been that bad but considering how hard it is too even make the SB i still call the season a massive success of even reaching it.
At the end of the day there is only one successful team, everyone else is loser.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-21-2014, 07:13 PM
At the end of the day there is only one successful team, everyone else is loser.
Go have a beer. :lol:
Northman
01-21-2014, 07:16 PM
At the end of the day there is only one successful team, everyone else is loser.
I used to think that way until i realized just how hard it is too even make it there.
DenBronx
01-21-2014, 07:18 PM
If we lose it will sort of feel like the 2009 Patriots all over again. This offense is better than theirs though. Yes we went 13-3 and they went 16-0 but I still believe our offense is more explosive.
The NYG had a solid defense that year but they also had offense. I don't think Seattle has an offense like the Giants did which will be key to us winning. Shutting down Lynch is the solution.
BroncoWave
01-21-2014, 07:20 PM
At the end of the day there is only one successful team, everyone else is loser.
If that's how you think as a sports fan, you're gonna have a bad time. Winning a title is really, really hard. And doing so involves good luck as much as it does being the best team. There is no shame in getting to the Super Bowl and losing. It doesn't make the team losers or a failure. It just means they didn't quite do enough in a single game. Hopefully this conversation is all moot in 12 days, but I don't see how you can say getting to the Super Bowl is a failure of a season.
OrangeHoof
01-21-2014, 07:30 PM
Personally, I'm satisfied. We beat the f-ing Patriots, the f-ing Ravens and the f-ing Steelers (who didn't even reach the playoffs thanks to SD). We reached the Super Bowl. This season is a success just like '77, '86, '87 and '89. We're the AFC Champions. If we lose in a blowout like '89, I'll be a bit bummed but I think it's been a great season.
Shazam!
01-21-2014, 07:57 PM
Broncos will not lose.
Normally I'd say no, but after beating the Pats to win the AFC and seeing Belichick get all bent out of shape about the guy who we signed away from his team, I am inclined to say yes, this has been a successful season no matter what.
ShaneFalco
01-21-2014, 08:25 PM
greatest offense of all time, anything less then a ring would be disappointing.
dogfish
01-21-2014, 08:29 PM
yes, i'm very happy that we're going to win the super bowl!
:defense:
I think #7 would say "hell no".
I ride with John.
If we lose it will sort of feel like the 2009 Patriots all over again. This offense is better than theirs though. Yes we went 13-3 and they went 16-0 but I still believe our offense is more explosive.
The NYG had a solid defense that year but they also had offense. I don't think Seattle has an offense like the Giants did which will be key to us winning. Shutting down Lynch is the solution.
'07 Pats, and Seattle's not a team without offense, nor even a one man offense. In fact, they rank lower in rushing yds/att than most people would expect: 12th, which is good, but not great. Conversely, they rank HIGHER in PASSING yds/att than most people would expect: 2nd, which is higher than us. In case anyone missed that,
The 2013 Seattle Seahawks gained more yds/pass than the 2013 Denver Broncos record-breaking passing offense.
We must shut down Lynch, protect Manning and avoid turnovers, but that's only the first step. IF we do that we must THEN get pressure with just 4-5 so we can cover all his WRs, TEs and RBs, AND we must run well enough ourselves that their front seven can't just blindly charge Manning all game and Chancellor must come down into the box, thinning the coverage so Manning can take his pick of one-on-one routes (I personally like Decker vs. Maxwell.) Our D is too soft and too injured to spend lots of time on the field getting tired and more injured: Drives, not plays.
They don't have our offense, but we don't have their D; it should be a great game unless one team shows itself CLEARLY overmatched from the start. Even then, the good news if that's us, we're built with the ability to overcome big deficits; if it's Seattle, they aren't—just don't trade 2:00 drives for 8:00 drives all game and expect our D to be fresh and theirs worn out in the final period. Since they milk ToP more than us anyway, they'll probably have the ball last; we just have to ensure it doesn't matter.
This might be one of those times where if we DO win the toss we should NOT defer; the last thing we need is for that team to run Lynch down our throats for a dozen plays and take a 7-0 lead and give us the ball with 5:00 left in the first quarter. We're facing the same kind of game plan that NE and SD used—Seattle's just a lot BETTER at it.
If that's how you think as a sports fan, you're gonna have a bad time. Winning a title is really, really hard. And doing so involves good luck as much as it does being the best team. There is no shame in getting to the Super Bowl and losing. It doesn't make the team losers or a failure. It just means they didn't quite do enough in a single game. Hopefully this conversation is all moot in 12 days, but I don't see how you can say getting to the Super Bowl is a failure of a season.
We don't often agree on things, but in this I fully agree. I think many of us fans bought to heavily into Shanny's anything less than a SB is a failure mantra. If you want to take that approach, you simply have to then be realistic that in a typical 10 year period, 24-26+ teams have had complete and utter failed seasons EVERY year, and the other 6-8 teams even having won a SB once or twice in that decade, had COMPLETE AND UTTER failures the other 8 or 9 seasons in that decade.
It's just silly to call anything less than a SB win a failed season or anything close to that.
Yes, ultimately, all players, coaches, owners and fans want their team to win the SB, but anyone being level headed realizes that a season can be successful without winning, or even getting to, the Super Bowl.
MasterShake
01-23-2014, 09:17 AM
I consider it a success especially given all this team has been through this year. At this point it would be a damn shame not to win the Super Bowl, not something that would send me into crippling sports depression like last year. But if we get blown out that is a different story.
I think this team has a quiet confidence and I haven't felt this good about our chances since we played Atlanta. I wouldn't mind seeing another Lombardi at the Broncos offices. So while I consider this season a success, it still has a chance to be legendary.
MOtorboat
01-23-2014, 09:19 AM
Yes. Of course it is.
vettesplus
01-23-2014, 10:13 AM
it would be somewhat bust. PFM did not sign with Denver to win the afc championship. with manning its superbowl or bust for him!!!!
Dreadnought
01-23-2014, 10:17 AM
Damned fine Year, ladies and gents. Damned fine. Lots of fun. One of my favorites of all time. Might still end up in the all time top three afore its all over!
We don't often agree on things, but in this I fully agree. I think many of us fans bought to heavily into Shanny's anything less than a SB is a failure mantra. If you want to take that approach, you simply have to then be realistic that in a typical 10 year period, 24-26+ teams have had complete and utter failed seasons EVERY year, and the other 6-8 teams even having won a SB once or twice in that decade, had COMPLETE AND UTTER failures the other 8 or 9 seasons in that decade.
It's just silly to call anything less than a SB win a failed season or anything close to that.
Yes, ultimately, all players, coaches, owners and fans want their team to win the SB, but anyone being level headed realizes that a season can be successful without winning, or even getting to, the Super Bowl.
Dan Reeves' three successful seasons as SB loser had far more to do with the "anything less than a SB win is a failure" notion than anything Shanny did. I can't speak for everyone, but when I think of the Vikings and Bills I don't think, 4 successful seasons. Denver was in that club for a while, too, which made anything less than a SB win unacceptable. Which is a champions mindset.
Dan Reeves' three successful seasons as SB loser had far more to do with the "anything less than a SB win is a failure" notion than anything Shanny did. I can't speak for everyone, but when I think of the Vikings and Bills I don't think, 4 successful seasons. Denver was in that club for a while, too, which made anything less than a SB win unacceptable. Which is a champions mindset.
No, a fool's mindset.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner
Northman
01-23-2014, 11:31 AM
it would be somewhat bust. PFM did not sign with Denver to win the afc championship. with manning its superbowl or bust for him!!!!
He's in the SB.
Ravage!!!
01-23-2014, 12:31 PM
Dan Reeves' three successful seasons as SB loser had far more to do with the "anything less than a SB win is a failure" notion than anything Shanny did. I can't speak for everyone, but when I think of the Vikings and Bills I don't think, 4 successful seasons. Denver was in that club for a while, too, which made anything less than a SB win unacceptable. Which is a champions mindset.
Yeah.. I HOPE that our present coaching staff has the "Super Bowl victory or its a failure" mindset. Fans can be satisfied, but I ABSOLUTELY don't want our coaches nor players to have the "well its been a good season no matter what" kind of thinkign at ALL at this point. For them, it better be "Super Bowl win or FAILURE!" That doesn't ahve anything to do with Shanahan.
Yeah.. I HOPE that our present coaching staff has the "Super Bowl victory or its a failure" mindset. Fans can be satisfied, but I ABSOLUTELY don't want our coaches nor players to have the "well its been a good season no matter what" kind of thinkign at ALL at this point. For them, it better be "Super Bowl win or FAILURE!" That doesn't ahve anything to do with Shanahan.
I brought up Shanahan due to the fact of how many times in the past fans on this forum and others have pointed out how a Broncos season was a failure, because it didn't end in a SB victory, BECAUSE Shanny said that was the only goal.
If you want to consider anything less that a SB victory a failure, that's great, but only if you then recognize that every NFL team fails about 98% of the time and that there are only 6-9 teams in any decade that didn't have ten complete and utterly failed seasons in a ten year stretch, and of the other 6-9 teams, they have 8-9 complete and utter failed seasons per decade.
It's just such a silly and simplistic view, that I'm surprised that it's so oft repeated. Doing everything possible to achieve the ultimate goal, which obviously is winning the SB, is far different than taking the position that anything short of a SB win is a failure.
No, a fool's mindset.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner
That's an... interesting way to put it: After 3 Super Bowl-losing successes in a decade, Pat Bowlen fired Dan Reeves. Just like Bud Grant and Marv Levy got fired. Just like Bud Adams fired Bum Phillips for taking the team to 3 straight playoffs (including back-to-back AFCCGs,) then did Jerry Glanville when he did the same, then Jack Pardee when he took them to 4. 10 successes in 16 of the most frustrating years of my life. Second best tides people over if they've never been there before, but after a few times it's not good enough anymore.
We made our first AFCCG in 8 years, and first SB in 15: That's progress, moving in the right direction, a successful season—and not good enough unless we punch it in now or next year. Elway didn't get helicoptered through the air by a couple LBs because he was thinking, My 4th SB makes this season a success already; Bowlen didn't shout, "This 4th success is for John!" I didn't expect NE to reach the AFCCG with a third of their starters out for the year, but they did; Belicheat and Brady still don't sound like guys who feel successful. Guess they're fools.
Or, a better comparsion: The '07 Pats smashed all kinds of records, posted the NFLs only perfect regular season—and narrowly lost the Super Bowl. Success...?
Peyton Manning didn't fight back from a spinal injury that could've paralyzed or killed him, endure hundreds of grueling hours of rehab, hundreds more of practicing till he could throw farther than his 10-15 yd post-rehab range, shuttle around the country looking for juuust the right team—all because he wanted to match the success of his '09 season: He wants another SB Ring, or he'd be sitting on the couch with his dad watching NFL seasons instead of participating.
Second best is good enough if its unprecedented or an improvement that leaves a great possibility of finishing on top soon. But Denver's tied with NE for 2nd most SB appearances EVER, and just a game behind Dallas and Pitt for the most: It's no longer an honor just to be here. If we weren't capable of and accustomed to more that would be enough, but we are so it's not.
Yes, 31 out of 32 teams fail to win the SB each year, many have NEVER won and most have gone decades without winning it: Rarity and difficulty are what make championships precious.
That's an... interesting way to put it: After 3 Super Bowl-losing successes in a decade, Pat Bowlen fired Dan Reeves. Just like Bud Grant and Marv Levy got fired. Just like Bud Adams fired Bum Phillips for taking the team to 3 straight playoffs (including back-to-back AFCCGs,) then did Jerry Glanville when he did the same, then Jack Pardee when he took them to 4. 10 successes in 16 of the most frustrating years of my life. Second best tides people over if they've never been there before, but after a few times it's not good enough anymore.
We made our first AFCCG in 8 years, and first SB in 15: That's progress, moving in the right direction, a successful season—and not good enough unless we punch it in now or next year. Elway didn't get helicoptered through the air by a couple LBs because he was thinking, My 4th SB makes this season a success already; Bowlen didn't shout, "This 4th success is for John!" I didn't expect NE to reach the AFCCG with a third of their starters out for the year, but they did; Belicheat and Brady still don't sound like guys who feel successful. Guess they're fools.
Or, a better comparsion: The '07 Pats smashed all kinds of records, posted the NFLs only perfect regular season—and narrowly lost the Super Bowl. Success...?
Peyton Manning didn't fight back from a spinal injury that could've paralyzed or killed him, endure hundreds of grueling hours of rehab, hundreds more of practicing till he could throw farther than his 10-15 yd post-rehab range, shuttle around the country looking for juuust the right team—all because he wanted to match the success of his '09 season: He wants another SB Ring, or he'd be sitting on the couch with his dad watching NFL seasons instead of participating.
Second best is good enough if its unprecedented or an improvement that leaves a great possibility of finishing on top soon. But Denver's tied with NE for 2nd most SB appearances EVER, and just a game behind Dallas and Pitt for the most: It's no longer an honor just to be here. If we weren't capable of and accustomed to more that would be enough, but we are so it's not.
Once again you show a complete and utter inability to grasp complex concepts. If you want to hold on to such a simpleton's view of success and failure in the NFL, you go for it, man.
BroncoNut
01-23-2014, 12:56 PM
yes, it's been a very successful season. need to be grateful for that.
Edmonton Bronco Fan (2)
01-23-2014, 01:03 PM
I think every player in the Broncos dressing room and everybody in coaching and management looks at anything other than winning the Super Bowl as a disappointment. If they didn't, I wouldn't want them playing for this team or running this team. There is no point in being content with finishing second or going through the aches and pains of the disappointment last season if your goal isn't to try and get back to the post-season and win it all. Now obviously, that is their job and focus; as fans, we're allowed to look at things a little more objectively.
There is no question that the Broncos season is a success in my opinion; this team has the best offense in National Football League history, they've overcome more adversity then some teams face in three seasons, they've stepped their game up when it matters most and have played some exceptional post season football after the disappointment of last season. But nobody wants to be a footnote to history. The Seahawks are as tough as an opponent as we've faced all year and if the Broncos come out, play as well as they can and simply get beaten by a better team on February 2nd, so be it. I just think that we've gotten this far, been racing toward this finish line for the past twelve months; being satisfied right now is like reading a book and skipping the final chapter. This team deserves to be more than a footnote in the annals of history like the 18-1 Patriots.
Lancane
01-23-2014, 01:06 PM
Depends, in the eyes of thirty other teams, then yes and even for the fans. How about in the eyes of the Broncos' players? I'm pretty sure that they want to go that final distance or the season will be all for nothing. People need to remember, this team will not be the same after this season, Manning may or may not return, Decker may or may not be a Bronco, same with Champ Bailey and Shaun Phillips, there are those who are literally on their last leg and the chance to get to this position in a day and age where the league is far more balanced is nearly impossible, even the former powerhouse teams of the New England, Baltimore, New York and Pittsburgh have come to find that it's not so easy. I believe for the fans and in the eyes of the fans that it's rather successful, but for the players and this organization? Not so much.
powderaddict
01-23-2014, 01:11 PM
If the Broncos lose, I will be sorely, bitterly disappointed.
But I will still remember this season as a great season, and consider it one of the best I can remember.
OrangeHoof
01-23-2014, 01:11 PM
I can turn this into a chart:
5 wins or less: Failure (That top draft pick better be worth it).
6-8 wins: Success only if you are moving up from the 5-or-less level.
9 wins: Keep trying for next year.
10 wins or more: You've probably made the playoffs and now it comes down to HFA and players who produce in the clutch.
Last season, the Broncos had a great year but failed to produce in the clutch.
This season, we've produced in the clutch and we're in the Super Bowl.
At this level, the team has had a successful season and now they just need to finish the job, the same mantra Fox has been giving his players since his return.
Once again you show a complete and utter inability to grasp complex concepts. If you want to hold on to such a simpleton's view of success and failure in the NFL, you go for it, man.
Yes, because oversimplifying has always been my hallmark. And people say I'M condescending: I understood, but DISAGREED; there's a difference.
BroncoNut
01-23-2014, 01:35 PM
Yes, because oversimpliying things has always been my hallmark. And people say I'M condescending: I understood, but DISAGREED; there's a difference.
big difference. if Tned wishes to complicate things and get his panties in a twist over someone else's approach, so be it. his loss joel.
Yes, because oversimplifying has always been my hallmark. And people say I'M condescending: I understood, but DISAGREED; there's a difference.
That is the point, you always respond with condescension (as you did in response to me, where you didn't just disagree, but did so with sarcasm and condescension to try and prove your point) and misplaced arrogance. If you didn't mistakenly think your opinion, logic and thought process was superior to everyone else, there would be better interaction between you and others.
Anyway, in other news, Broncos are in the Super Bowl and now have a 50/50 chance of not having this season being a total and epic failure.
MOtorboat
01-23-2014, 01:43 PM
Yes, 31 out of 32 teams fail to win the SB each year, many have NEVER won and most have gone decades without winning it: Rarity and difficulty are what make championships precious.
But it is not the ONLY defining characteristic of success.
By saying this, you're acknowledging that 2011 was an abject failure.
big difference. if Tned wishes to complicate things and get his panties in a twist over someone else's approach, so be it. his loss joel.
My panties tend to wad more than twist. I can only assume that's because I have a big ass and where granny panties rather than a small ass and were a thong. However, I could be wrong on why that is.
BroncoNut
01-23-2014, 01:50 PM
My panties tend to wad more than twist. I can only assume that's because I have a big ass and where granny panties rather than a small ass and were a thong. However, I could be wrong on why that is.
wear, not were and where. but I do appreciate your honesty
wear, not were and where. but I do appreciate your honesty
That's the thing about us guys that aren't condescending ******, we just don't care about things like gramer, spalling or that kinda stuff. We know we aren't superior and we are okie dokie with it. ;)
BroncoNut
01-23-2014, 01:58 PM
That's the thing about us guys that aren't condescending ******, we just don't care about things like gramer, spalling or that kinda stuff. We know we aren't superior and we are okie dokie with it. ;)
so you are saying that mo is condescending? no way Tned, comeon, not Mo
so you are saying that mo is condescending? no way Tned, comeon, not Mo
who's mo? Don't think I know a mo. Now, MO is not as much condescending as he is superior in his logic, at least on those occasions when his opinion is in alignment with mine, which of course is the only correct one.
That is the point, you always respond with condescension (as you did in response to me, where you didn't just disagree, but did so with sarcasm and condescension to try and prove your point) and misplaced arrogance. If you didn't mistakenly think your opinion, logic and thought process was superior to everyone else, there would be better interaction between you and others.
Anyway, in other news, Broncos are in the Super Bowl and now have a 50/50 chance of not having this season being a total and epic failure.
Re-reading, hyperbolically phrased counterexamples DID just make them sarcastic; my apologies. It was unintentional, but so was what Mrs. O'Learys cow did; doesn't change the effect. Let me try again; had just reaching a 4th SB been success—win or lose:
Elway wouldn't have played with the fierce desperation prompting him to dive head first for a conversion knowing two bigger guys would pound him.
Bowlen would've accepted the Lombardi Trophy by shouting, "This one's for John!"
The '07 Patriots wouldn't be remembered as much for what they DIDN'T do as what they did.
The Vikings, Bills and—until 1997—Broncos wouldn't be remembered for making lots of SBs but NEVER winning.
The bottom line is that every season ends in a loss for every playoff team but one, and that's not a success in any sense unless it's an improvement on last year. This one's a success; reaching next years SB won't be unless we WIN it, because treading water (or, worse, sinking) isn't success.
But it is not the ONLY defining characteristic of success.
By saying this, you're acknowledging that 2011 was an abject failure.
No, because I repeatedly said a playoff finish is a success if it's an IMPROVEMENT setting the stage for bigger things. That's why this years season is already a success: It's our first AFCCG in 8 years and first SB in 15, and we're just one game from proving ourselves the best team in the NFL. That's an accomplishment, and not the way it was for the 1993 Bills, even with The Comeback.
I was REALLY trying not to go there, and will probably regret rising to the bait (as always,) but, if just making the postseasons's always a success:
Why are the 2011 Broncos so awful for making the playoffs for the first time in 8 years—and beating a good team there—but the 2012 Broncos so great for just duplicating what that 2011 failure did? Not even duplicating, really; at least the 2011 Broncos won a playoff game, which is more than last years team can say.
Yeah, I'm gonna regret responding to that; won't make that mistake again, so you get the last shot.
Re-reading, hyperbolically phrased counterexamples DID just make them sarcastic; my apologies. It was unintentional, but so was what Mrs. O'Learys cow did; doesn't change the effect.
So, let me see, you apologize for your "accidental" sarcasm and condescension by posting a condescending, sarcastic analogy explaining how it was accidental.
Holy shit, brother, you really do take the cake.
:shot:
So, let me see, you apologize for your "accidental" sarcasm and condescension by posting a condescending, sarcastic analogy explaining how it was accidental.
Holy shit, brother, you really do take the cake.
:shot:
That wasn't saracastic nor condescending: It's just what happened. A big part of why the repeat was so much fun was that all the pressure was gone and the team could just go out and play. The two best remembered moments of SB XXXII are the Helicopter and "This one's for John!" precisely because just getting there isn't enough when you've already been there repeatedly. The ENTIRE NARRATIVE of that game was "will Elway finally get his Ring in his 4th try, before his 37 year old body runs out of time?"
That's not condescension nor sarcasm, just the way it was. Strong counterarguments aren't sarcasm, though the snide way I first phrased them was, however unintentionally. Take away the snideness, however, and the counterargument remains, and remains strong. Same with the 0-4 Bills and Vikings SB teams.
That wasn't saracastic nor condescending: It's just what happened. A big part of why the repeat was so much fun was that all the pressure was gone and the team could just go out and play.
The two best remembered moments of SB XXXII are the Helicopter and "This one's for John!" precisely because just getting there isn't enough when you've already been there repeatedly.
That's not condescension nor sarcasm, just the way it is. Strong counterarguments aren't sarcasm, though the snide way I first phrased them was, however unintentionally. Take away the snideness, however, and the counterargument remains, and remains strong. Same with the 0-4 Bills and Vikings SB teams.
Ummm, try re-reading the text I quoted. I have no idea why you are repeating the SB comments, I never responded to them. Neither agreed nor disagreed.
BroncoNut
01-23-2014, 02:49 PM
Tned pulls the condescending sarcastic card all the time.
MOtorboat
01-23-2014, 02:51 PM
No, because I repeatedly said a playoff finish is a success if it's an IMPROVEMENT setting the stage for bigger things. That's why this years season is already a success: It's our first AFCCG in 8 years and first SB in 15, and we're just one game from proving ourselves the best team in the NFL. That's an accomplishment, and not the way it was for the 1993 Bills, even with The Comeback.
I was REALLY trying not to go there, and will probably regret rising to the bait (as always,) but, if just making the postseasons's always a success:
Why are the 2011 Broncos so awful for making the playoffs for the first time in 8 years—and beating a good team there—but the 2012 Broncos so great for just duplicating what that 2011 failure did? Not even duplicating, really; at least the 2011 Broncos won a playoff game, which is more than last years team can say.
Yeah, I'm gonna regret responding to that; won't make that mistake again, so you get the last shot.
No, I won't waste anyone's time any more because I'm sure I'm one post short of a "concerning your post" PM. But I will note that for someone who complains about being often misrepresented to then misrepresent something someone else has said is mighty ironic.
Tned pulls the condescending sarcastic card all the time.
Yea, but I do it in style, while whering my granny panties and wife beater T.
tomjonesrocks
01-23-2014, 02:58 PM
Would hate to see a loss to Seattle but I think it's a success. Maybe not so much for Manning personally.
Unfortunately if weather is severe the game itself could be a total fiasco.
In which Seattle will never get the credit they deserve if they win.
Ummm, try re-reading the text I quoted. I have no idea why you are repeating the SB comments, I never responded to them. Neither agreed nor disagreed.
Okay, but how is it condescending or saracastic to say I was wrong and apologize because doing it on accident doesn't make it any less wrong? That wasn't an excuse, but an explanation that changed nothing: It was wrong, I shouldn't have done it in any circumstances and I apologized. What more can I do?
No, I won't waste anyone's time any more because I'm sure I'm one post short of a "concerning your post" PM. But I will note that for someone who complains about being often misrepresented to then misrepresent something someone else has said is mighty ironic.
You'll only get a PM if an Admin decides to be proactive, which is unlikely; unless you call me a liar and/or cuss me uncensored I certainly won't report you. While supposedly very thin-skinned and prone to martyr complexes, I recall reporting all of ONE person in my years here (because anyone who calls me a liar better be able to prove it, and pray I can't easily DISPROVE it.)
Okay, but how is it condescending or saracastic to say I was wrong and apologize because doing it on accident doesn't make it any less wrong? That wasn't an excuse, but an explanation that changed nothing: It was wrong, I shouldn't have done it in any circumstances and I apologized. What more can I do?
Ask Mrs. O'leary's cow, maybe she can help you out.
Traveler
01-23-2014, 04:41 PM
I tend to separate the regular season, post season (playoffs), and SB. Our regular season and post season were a success. SB success is pending.
Ask Mrs. O'leary's cow, maybe she can help you out.
Only if I need a light.
tubby
01-23-2014, 05:20 PM
Who cares, we could have had Carl Nicks.
Who cares, we could have had Carl Nicks.
Yea, Broncos could have saved $20 million a year on the QB who just had the greatest season by any quarterback ever, and instead could have wasted $50 million on Nicks like the Bucs did. Damn, in hindsight, sure wish we had passed on Manning and signed Nicks to sit on the bench with his nasty, infected toe booboo.
Simple Jaded
01-23-2014, 05:38 PM
Can Ms O'Leary's cow play OG?
Problem solved.
You're welcome.
Also, I don't do a good job of keeping up with these things, but did the Broncos sign some little, undersized guard to play on the right side? I think he was select for the all star thingy or something. Wasn't he. I guess he'll be playing with this Nicks guy, that surely must also be an all star, since he's da man.
Simple Jaded
01-23-2014, 06:43 PM
Also, I don't do a good job of keeping up with these things, but did the Broncos sign some little, undersized guard to play on the right side? I think he was select for the all star thingy or something. Wasn't he. I guess he'll be playing with this Nicks guy, that surely must also be an all star, since he's da man.
So what you're saying is the Broncos got that 37-year-old QB/waste of cap space AND the ProBowl G? Now if only they could find a S that missed a lot of time to injury.
Dreadnought
01-23-2014, 06:46 PM
I tend to separate the regular season, post season (playoffs), and SB. Our regular season and post season were a success. SB success is pending.
Never quite thought of it in those terms, but that's a great plan. I know I always separate regular from Post Season, but your plan is even better.
We swept the Faid. We swept the Chiefs. We beat the Ratbirds and Cowboys. We sent Belichick home for the SB for another Year. We gave Giselle more quality time with Tom....who, since he won't be watching the Superbowl, can perhaps take his Mrs. Antiquing in a quaint New Hampshire town that Sunday
So what you're saying is the Broncos got that 37-year-old QB/waste of cap space AND the ProBowl G? Now if only they could find a S that missed a lot of time to injury.
We didn't get FOUR Pro Bowlers for the $20 million we're paying Manning, because we didn't have the $20 million to pay them: He did. Can we stop pretending my argument was "Laron Landry vs. Manning" or "Nicks v. Manning" when it was "Landry, Nicks, Lofton and a third Pro Bowler I can't even recall now vs. Manning." Main thing I remember is all four of those guys will still be playing next year, the year after and for some time after that: Manning won't. And those guys weren't fresh off 4 spinal surgeries.
Regardless, we got to an AFCCG within 2 years of signing Manning, which I said was the only way to avoid a fanbase meltdown. I was the very first person to vote in this thread, and voted yes; what do ya'll want, blood? Honestly, the quality and quantity of petty spite here is less like adults conversing than it is conversation in a junior high bathroom—and not the little boys room.
We didn't get FOUR Pro Bowlers for the $20 million we're paying Manning, because we didn't have the $20 million to pay them: He did. Can we stop pretending my argument was "Laron Landry vs. Manning" or "Nicks v. Manning" when it was "Landry, Nicks, Lofton and a third Pro Bowler I can't even recall now vs. Manning." Main thing I remember is all four of those guys will still be playing next year, the year after and for some time after that: Manning won't.
Regardless, we got to an AFCCG within 2 years of signing Manning, which I said was the only way to avoid a fanbase meltdown. I was the very first person to vote in this thread, and voted yes; what do ya'll want, blood? Honestly, the quality and quantity of petty spite here is less like adults conversing than conversation in a junior high bathroom—and not the little boys room.
Those four pro bowlers cost far more than Manning's $20 million a year. Just the three you named are averaging over 21 million a year, you would be well over $25 by the time you added your fourth and still not have a QB, so it would all be for nothing. Vasquez has been a much better pickup than nicks.
It's sad you keep digging in rather than just sacking up and admitting you were wrong. Every one is wrong opinions at times. I stated emphatically that the passing game would improve if Tebow took over for Orton. I was completely wrong. What separates the men from the boys is being willing to admit when you are wrong.
TXBRONC
01-23-2014, 11:21 PM
But it is not the ONLY defining characteristic of success.
By saying this, you're acknowledging that 2011 was an abject failure.
The goal is to win the Super Bowl but this is still a successful season even if the Broncos do not win it all.
Simple Jaded
01-23-2014, 11:53 PM
We didn't get FOUR Pro Bowlers for the $20 million we're paying Manning, because we didn't have the $20 million to pay them: He did. Can we stop pretending my argument was "Laron Landry vs. Manning" or "Nicks v. Manning" when it was "Landry, Nicks, Lofton and a third Pro Bowler I can't even recall now vs. Manning." Main thing I remember is all four of those guys will still be playing next year, the year after and for some time after that: Manning won't. And those guys weren't fresh off 4 spinal surgeries.
Regardless, we got to an AFCCG within 2 years of signing Manning, which I said was the only way to avoid a fanbase meltdown. I was the very first person to vote in this thread, and voted yes; what do ya'll want, blood? Honestly, the quality and quantity of petty spite here is less like adults conversing than it is conversation in a junior high bathroom—and not the little boys room.
They might have longevity that Manning lacks.
You know what else they don't have in common with Manning? They're a waste of cap space, they'll be around for a few more years.......wasting cap space.
I was wrong about Nicks too, I have zero problem admitting that.
Btw, your first sentence proves it has nothing to do with the money spent, just on whom the money was spent on. The Broncos still had a pant load of cap space to spend AFTER they signed Manning. They still do to this day.
Simple Jaded
01-24-2014, 12:02 AM
Every time we have this ridiculous discussion I find myself hoping that Manning plays til his teeth fall out.
artie_dale
01-24-2014, 12:34 AM
Making it to the Super Bowl is success. Playing for the championship is success. If it is a good game, nobody will think less of the Broncos. We've just gotta finish.
Day1BroncoFan
01-24-2014, 12:59 AM
I consider it a success but I would really like a new super bowl winner t-shirt. My old one is a little tattered. Of course, I only buy Broncos t-shirts.
broncofaninfla
01-24-2014, 09:00 AM
Obviously we all want a Super Bowl win but after surviving the Mcd years I'd totally take this over those days. But like Elway said, hopefully we can put a cherry on top of it....................
MasterShake
01-24-2014, 09:09 AM
I think when a man is willing to get arrested for watching a game, its a success!
Man refuses to move out until after Broncos game. On Jan. 11, Jefferson County Sheriff's deputies went to the 3600 block of South Pierce Street, unincorporated Jeffco, after a woman complained that her boyfriend ended their relationship, but refused to move out until the next day because he wanted to watch the Broncos game. He told deputies his mother would pick him up after the game.
Read more: South Jeffco Crime Blotter: Man refuses to move out until after Broncos game - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/southjeffco/ci_24959317/south-jeffco-crime-blotter-man-refuses-move-out-broncos-game#ixzz2rKC6wX9D
MOtorboat
01-24-2014, 09:09 AM
Obviously we all want a Super Bowl win but after surviving the Mcd years I'd totally take this over those days. But like Elway said, hopefully we can put a cherry on top of it....................
Year. It was one year.
artie_dale
01-24-2014, 10:05 AM
Again, being one of two teams left out of 32 teams = success
TXBRONC
01-24-2014, 10:08 AM
I think when a man is willing to get arrested for watching a game, its a success!
Read more: South Jeffco Crime Blotter: Man refuses to move out until after Broncos game - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/southjeffco/ci_24959317/south-jeffco-crime-blotter-man-refuses-move-out-broncos-game#ixzz2rKC6wX9D
This guy wasn't to bright. Break up with after game not before it.
TXBRONC
01-24-2014, 10:09 AM
Year. It was one year.
MO McDaniels was in Denver nearly two full years.
MOtorboat
01-24-2014, 10:11 AM
MO McDaniels was in Denver nearly two full years.
And they were a non contender for one.
Northman
01-24-2014, 10:11 AM
Year. It was one year.
It was so bad it seemed to much longer.
Ravage!!!
01-24-2014, 10:23 AM
It was so bad it seemed to much longer.
seemed like an eternity. We 'became' contenders after he left.....not a coincidence.
pnbronco
01-24-2014, 10:25 AM
If you had told me at the beginning of the year. That our team would be going to the Super Bowl with out Von Miller, Derek Wolf, Kevin Vickerson, Chris Harris, Ryan Clady, JD Walton I think their is more but right now that's all I can remember. That Champ would have been out most of the year I would have said...wow what ever you're drinking please don't share. It's amazing to me that this team has overcome so much to be going to the big game. Oh yeah and that their coach would have a heart attack in the middle and be out a month.
The team has shown heart and grit when it counted. It's easy to win and beat your chest of how special you are when you win, but when you loose like they did to NE and SD they didn't make excuses they got tougher. I am so proud of these young men and everything they have overcome to be where they are. I would love for Champ to get that ring, he is the one man that so deserves it and so does my boy Mike Adams. That guy was on a crappy team for a long time, but he is still here in his 10th season. So for their sake I would love for them to win it all. For my ego, heck no I'm already so proud of them, but yeah I'll take that cherry on top too.....:D
BTW it's so nice to see the voting the way it's gone......it's so nice to see our fans support this team regardless of the final outcome.
Ravage!!!
01-24-2014, 10:31 AM
I brought up Shanahan due to the fact of how many times in the past fans on this forum and others have pointed out how a Broncos season was a failure, because it didn't end in a SB victory, BECAUSE Shanny said that was the only goal.
If you want to consider anything less that a SB victory a failure, that's great, but only if you then recognize that every NFL team fails about 98% of the time and that there are only 6-9 teams in any decade that didn't have ten complete and utterly failed seasons in a ten year stretch, and of the other 6-9 teams, they have 8-9 complete and utter failed seasons per decade.
It's just such a silly and simplistic view, that I'm surprised that it's so oft repeated. Doing everything possible to achieve the ultimate goal, which obviously is winning the SB, is far different than taking the position that anything short of a SB win is a failure.
I don't think you are understanding my point. As fans we can say " no matter what, its been a successful season." I don't want the players, nor the coaches, thinking that way. Not right now. If we lose the Super Bowl, and during the off-season the players look back, do you want them to say " I'm happy with how the seaon turned out?"
Being "happy" with the success that have takes away from the strive to succeed more. That is the mentality of GREAT men that are NEVER happy with where they are, but always want to be at top the NEXT peak.
A great quote by Andy Grove:
Success breeds complacency. Complacency breeds failure. Only the paranoid survive.
I would rather the coaches and players from my favorite team be paranoid of NEVER getting back here again than to feel "happy" at this point of their success.
Dzone
01-24-2014, 10:37 AM
Props on the obscure Springsteen song reference!
I agree. That was badass. My new theme song!
Dzone
01-24-2014, 10:42 AM
Its sad, but when I think of that team from 1989, all I can see is that dreadful 55-10 annihilation at the hands of Joe Montana in that dark and gloomy superdome.
Seems like when you lose a super bowl, the season gets forgotten and blotted out by memories of the super bowl loss. Doesnt mean the season was a failure, but a super bowl loss sticks in your mind like glue
pnbronco
01-24-2014, 10:52 AM
I don't think you are understanding my point. As fans we can say " no matter what, its been a successful season." I don't want the players, nor the coaches, thinking that way. Not right now. If we lose the Super Bowl, and during the off-season the players look back, do you want them to say " I'm happy with how the seaon turned out?"
Being "happy" with the success that have takes away from the strive to succeed more. That is the mentality of GREAT men that are NEVER happy with where they are, but always want to be at top the NEXT peak.
A great quote by Andy Grove:
I would rather the coaches and players from my favorite team be paranoid of NEVER getting back here again than to feel "happy" at this point of their success.
I don't see that happening at all. They have seen how teams on paper should have gone back to the SB and yet have not made it there. They know that this window is very, very small and they have one shot at it and this is it. IMO we have enough veterans on this team that is could be their only shot at the big ring and they will keep the young ones in line that being there is just not enough.
As a fan I'm just so happy for them to make it. If they play their best and loose I'm still super proud of them. I'll buy the AFC Champ Tee and wear it proud....because those are my boys and a mother always loves her boys.
pnbronco
01-24-2014, 10:56 AM
Its sad, but when I think of that team from 1989, all I can see is that dreadful 55-10 annihilation at the hands of Joe Montana in that dark and gloomy superdome.
Seems like when you lose a super bowl, the season gets forgotten and blotted out by memories of the super bowl loss. Doesnt mean the season was a failure, but a super bowl loss sticks in your mind like glue
That one was just painful. I will say that going through that loss made the win in SD so much sweeter. I think it gave Elway the fuel he needed to do whatever it took to get to that final win and hold that trophy. I saw Meck after the SD win, he had a grin from ear to ear. I asked is the monkey off your back and he said you mean the gorilla. John just didn't win for those team mates in that game, he won for all the ones that went to the games before and lost.
Ask me after the Super Bowl. It has been an enjoyable season as a fan...only negative that I can think of is the injuries.
Dzone
01-24-2014, 10:59 AM
I dont remember anything from that season when doug Williams and Tim Smith of the redskins went nuts on us in that super bowl, i thinkk it was super bowl XXVIII or was that VXIII?. So maybe in retrospect that season was a failure. But hey, we made it to the super bowl and that is a pretty big deal, until we lost lol
Ravage!!!
01-24-2014, 11:02 AM
I don't see that happening at all. They have seen how teams on paper should have gone back to the SB and yet have not made it there. They know that this window is very, very small and they have one shot at it and this is it. IMO we have enough veterans on this team that is could be their only shot at the big ring and they will keep the young ones in line that being there is just not enough.
As a fan I'm just so happy for them to make it. If they play their best and loose I'm still super proud of them. I'll buy the AFC Champ Tee and wear it proud....because those are my boys and a mother always loves her boys.
Well, pn, I'm not saying I believe its going to happen. The discussion is about how we view the season, and it was brought up that how "I" could see the season as a success right now, I woudn't want the PLAYER nor the coaches too see the season as a success right now.
It was brought up that some fans have the "all or nothing" perspective, and although that is their right, others criticized that perspective as being silly and simplistic.
I'm just saying that the fan perspective and the coaching/player perspectives probably are, and should be, different. I think the coaches that have a contending team, SHOULD have the "all or nothing" mentality. Now if you are the coach of the Browns, getting to the playoffs is a successful season. But when you are the coach of a team like the Broncos (this year), the Seahawks, and the 49ers...all teams that were favorites to make it to the SUper Bowl at the beginning of the season...... for them...... it absolutely is ALL or nothing. As it should be.
MOtorboat
01-24-2014, 11:04 AM
Its sad, but when I think of that team from 1989, all I can see is that dreadful 55-10 annihilation at the hands of Joe Montana in that dark and gloomy superdome.
Seems like when you lose a super bowl, the season gets forgotten and blotted out by memories of the super bowl loss. Doesnt mean the season was a failure, but a super bowl loss sticks in your mind like glue
I watched the divisional and championship games over and over. The divisional round game was the one against Pittsburgh where they kept showing Bubby Brister's mother over and over. The championship game was Cleveland again with the long touchdown pass to Michael Young that started the blowout.
Good stuff.
And they were a non contender for one.
That is very "rose colored glasses" view of what happened. He finished his last year losing 8 of his last 10 games. Then, lost six of nine his second year. He started his dismantling and the whole Cutler/Marshall fiasco his first year.
So, yes, under any reasonable view of his time, it was "years."
MOtorboat
01-24-2014, 11:09 AM
That is very "rose colored glasses" view of what happened. He finished his last year losing 8 of his last 10 games. Then, lost six of nine his second year. He started his dismantling and the whole Cutler/Marshall fiasco his first year.
So, yes, under any reasonable view of his time, it was "years."
Ask King about "years."
LawDog
01-24-2014, 11:25 AM
My opinion is that any season in which a team makes the playoffs is a successful season. Then it switches to whether or not the team had a successful post-season, and I think making the Superbowl qualifies as successful. There is so much that has to happen right for a team to make it to that level that I think you have to consider it to be a success just to make it. The only remaining question is whether our beloved Broncos will have a successful Superbowl...
Those four pro bowlers cost far more than Manning's $20 million a year. Just the three you named are averaging over 21 million a year, you would be well over $25 by the time you added your fourth and still not have a QB, so it would all be for nothing. Vasquez has been a much better pickup than nicks.
It's been a while but, challenged to name 4 Pro Bowlers at spots we had big needs and whose contracts added up to what we paid Manning, I named 3 and a good MLB: It all added up to $21 million, trivially more than Mannings $20 million last year (we'd still have been >$5 million under last years cap, IIRC.) Yes, they cost slightly more now, and the price will keep rising, because they aren't so near retirement they wanted front-loaded contracts; they also didn't sign contracts that voided this season unless they passed a physical last offseason.
It's sad you keep digging in rather than just sacking up and admitting you were wrong. Every one is wrong opinions at times. I stated emphatically that the passing game would improve if Tebow took over for Orton. I was completely wrong. What separates the men from the boys is being willing to admit when you are wrong.
Knuckling under just because everybody says one should isn't a mark of manhood. No one likes being wrong, but I don't mind admitting when I am; I already did so once in this thread—with an apology—but that still wasn't good enough, and you're still questioning my maturity; so be it.
For that matter, I considered He Who Must Not Be Named a disaster from the moment we drafted him, and started a thread about how much I wanted Quinn to replace Orton because, as bad as Quinn is, he was still better than He Who Must Not Be Named. I was wrong then, too, and admitted it—once that was PROVEN. If you'd asked any of my coworkers if I was a Teboi when we drafted him, or anyone I grew up with if I liked amateur football, the SEC or overhyped jack of all trades but master of none college QBs, they'd have laughed. Yet I can't admit error?
No one's proven Denvers fans wouldn't scream bloody murder if Manning didn't get us to an AFCCG within 2 years, because that can't be proven: He did, so the point is moot.
Every time we have this ridiculous discussion I find myself hoping that Manning plays til his teeth fall out.
Me, too. Not betting on it though.
Ask King about "years."
Fortunately, Denver made a quick turn around, but there is no denying it was more than one year.
Apollo
01-24-2014, 05:04 PM
Not read the thread, but I'll pitch in as a response to the OP.
Yes and no. I think yes it has been a success in terms of the overall spirit and performance of the team. But on the other hand, we have a QB who's 37, and likely only has a year, max two, left. Manning has been instrumental to our success, and I think whilst we have one of the greatest of all time at QB we can't squander the chance to add another Superbowl to our team. I think the truth is if we didn't win the Super Bowl, we'd look back on this as a massive missed opportunity.
BroncoJoe
01-24-2014, 05:12 PM
Props on the obscure Springsteen song reference!
I agree. That was badass. My new theme song!
Going against the grain with this community - I know all the Springsteen songs. This is one of my favorites.
VonDoom
01-24-2014, 05:45 PM
Props on the obscure Springsteen song reference!
I agree. That was badass. My new theme song!
Going against the grain with this community - I know all the Springsteen songs. This is one of my favorites.
Yeah, I knew the song. I'm a huge fan. I just meant that to the mainstream, Human Touch barely existed.
BroncoWave
01-24-2014, 05:51 PM
Well, pn, I'm not saying I believe its going to happen. The discussion is about how we view the season, and it was brought up that how "I" could see the season as a success right now, I woudn't want the PLAYER nor the coaches too see the season as a success right now.
It was brought up that some fans have the "all or nothing" perspective, and although that is their right, others criticized that perspective as being silly and simplistic.
I'm just saying that the fan perspective and the coaching/player perspectives probably are, and should be, different. I think the coaches that have a contending team, SHOULD have the "all or nothing" mentality. Now if you are the coach of the Browns, getting to the playoffs is a successful season. But when you are the coach of a team like the Broncos (this year), the Seahawks, and the 49ers...all teams that were favorites to make it to the SUper Bowl at the beginning of the season...... for them...... it absolutely is ALL or nothing. As it should be.
No one is disagreeing with you on this point that I have seen...
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