Fox 'A Perfect Fit' for Broncos [Archive]

Denver Native (Carol)

01-16-2014, 09:29 PM

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- For Executive Vice President of Football Operations John Elway, the enthusiasm and passion that John Fox brings to coaching made him a perfect fit for the Broncos when Fox became the team’s head coach in January 2011.

Three years and three consecutive AFC West titles later, Fox has the Broncos playing in the AFC Championship Game for the first time since 2005 – evidence that the results Fox has helped produce have fit with Denver quite nicely, as well.

“He's just a positive guy,” Elway said. “You never really see him down. You never see him in a bad mood. You never see him without any energy. He's got more energy than anybody I've ever see. That, to me, is the definition of John Fox—the energy level that he brings. He brings it to the practice field, and it's contagious. I think that's why he was a perfect fit for us.”

rest - plus video
http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Fox-A-Perfect-Fit-for-Broncos-/70744f0c-74f1-431a-9f90-b18e4c096428

LawDog

01-16-2014, 09:39 PM

dogfish

01-16-2014, 10:07 PM

Fox has energy and enthusiasm. But, it is balanced and appropriate to the situation. Unlike that frenetic spaz in Seattle who seems to have just burned through a half gram of meth with an Adderal chaser every time you see him. I am enjoying the ever loving crap out of this season to be sure.

i think, most of all, fox has brought what we expected of him; professionalism. . .

which was desperately needed after the mcdebacle. . . fox has brought back stability and respectability, and a serious football mentality. . . and yes, as you mentioned, he has a calm about him that sets a good tone. . . it's a legit been there, done that. . . he also has established schemes and a consistent vision of how he wants to build around those. . . even better, he's shown an unexpected flexibility to adjust to the personnel on hand. . . he's also allowed his coordinators plenty of rein, all the way up to turning it loose on 3rd-and-long late, with a lead in a playoff game. . . for a guy harshly criticized as too conservative, he's really shown that he can learn from his mistakes, and adapt out-dated approaches. . . i thought he was a solid hire for what we needed at the time, but he's exceeded my expectations. . .

IF we can go on and win it (or get one in the next couple of years), i think we'll hear a LOT of comparisons between fox and tom coughlin. . .

Dreadnought

01-17-2014, 04:18 PM

I honestly can't think of a coach I'd rather have. I liked Fox in Carolina, liked the hire, and haven't been disappointed. I like the way he thinks and how he conducts himself (as in, exactly not like McDoosh or IAW Lawdog's brilliant description of Peter Carroll). He is a pleasure to root for

DenBronx

01-17-2014, 05:30 PM

Broncolingus

01-17-2014, 06:12 PM

. Unlike that frenetic spaz in Seattle who seems to have just burned through a half gram of meth with an Adderal chaser every time you see him. I am enjoying the ever loving crap out of this season to be sure.

Amen, Dog...

The respect meter drops off for me pretty significantly after Fox for the remaining coaches...

Fox just comes across as a honest and decent human being with a ton of integrity and loyalty, which I think is how he models his coaching style...

I don't know how much I really like Bellicheat, but I respect the hell out of him as he's proven he's one of the top coaches ever in the NFL...the dude just wins with anyone all the time.

...those other two retards (Fagbaugh and Clairol) can pound sand to high-heaven as far as I'm concerned...

...what a couple of psycho douche bags :tsk:

Bosco

01-17-2014, 06:49 PM

I honestly can't think of a coach I'd rather have. Seriously? Just off the top of my head I'd take Belichick, either of the Harbaughs, McCarthy and Payton over him. Pagano is another one I like.

Fox is a good coach, no doubt, but he is certainly not in the brilliant/elite category that those guys are. He's also extremely conservative and that has come back to bite him in the ass many times over his career.

dogfish

01-17-2014, 07:03 PM

winning a super bowl with aaron rodgers or drew brees = brilliance

nearly beating brady with freakin' delhomme = yea he's okay

:lol::lol:

Bosco

01-17-2014, 07:17 PM

winning a super bowl with aaron rodgers or drew brees = brilliance

nearly beating brady with freakin' delhomme = yea he's okay

:lol::lol:

With all due respect, that is one of the most ridiculously shallow, lowest common denominator type posts I've seen in awhile, and normally you're a very good poster.

Payton and McCarthy are arguably the two best play callers in all of football, and I doubt anyone who really knows football would dispute that. We saw how the Saints offense looked against good defenses last year without Payton's guidance. We lost Fox and basically nothing changed. Guys like Payton and McCarthy (among others) also call their own plays, something Fox has never done. Fox is almost an extension of the GM. His value has been in being a player's coach and building great staffs at both of his stops. One certainly cannot discount that contribution, but he has never been nor will he ever be the elite coach.

MOtorboat

01-17-2014, 07:33 PM

With all due respect, that is one of the most ridiculously shallow, lowest common denominator type posts I've seen in awhile, and normally you're a very good poster.

Payton and McCarthy are arguably the two best play callers in all of football, and I doubt anyone who really knows football would dispute that. We saw how the Saints offense looked against good defenses last year without Payton's guidance. We lost Fox and basically nothing changed. Guys like Payton and McCarthy (among others) also call their own plays, something Fox has never done. Fox is almost an extension of the GM. His value has been in being a player's coach and building great staffs at both of his stops. One certainly cannot discount that contribution, but he has never been nor will he ever be the elite coach.

So calling your own offensive plays is now the baseline for how good a head coach is?

Yes, Fox delegates as a head coach, sure. But he also was a defensive coordinator in this league. Ironically enough, he was the defensive coordinator for the Giants in their 2000 Super Bowl. The offensive coordinator? Sean Payton.

Would I put Fox ahead of truly elite coaches like Belicheck? No. But he's right up there with any of the other guys you mentioned.

BroncoWave

01-17-2014, 11:32 PM

aberdien

01-18-2014, 12:15 AM

Ravage!!!

01-18-2014, 12:25 PM

I absolutely hate Harbaugh and am glad he's not our HC. Didn't like him when he was a player either. That guy is just a douche.

Ravage!!!

01-18-2014, 12:27 PM

Fox is good and likeable. I would put him maybe in the top 5 coaches in the NFL today. Definitely top 10, but he could maybe slip in the top 5.

But yes, he is a perfect fit for Peyton Manning. I don't think any of the other coaches mentioned except for BB would mesh well with Peyton. Fox is on par with Dungy in that they're calm, even-keeled, and positive. Hope we can win one for John.

That is probably why Peyton isn't with the 49ers today. The Niners definitely were more 'bowl bound' than Denver before Manning came here. Can you imagine Harbaugh and Manning getting along? No way.

BroncoWave

01-18-2014, 12:28 PM

I absolutely hate Harbaugh and am glad he's not our HC. Didn't like him when he was a player either. That guy is just a douche.

First coach in NFL history to make a conference championship in his first 3 years. Short of maybe the Pats, any team would be retarded not to take him if he wanted to go there.

Ravage!!!

01-18-2014, 12:31 PM

First coach in NFL history to make a conference championship in his first 3 years. Short of maybe the Pats, any team would be retarded not to take him if he wanted to go there.

:lol: He didn't exactly inherit a 'bad' team that most 1st year coaches do. I don't care how much you like him, I don't. You can defend him and brag about him, and pound your chest on how much you are right and try to tell me how ANYONE that doesn't agree with you is 'retarded' allllllll you want. But that dude is a complete and total DOUCHE, and I'm glad he's not the HC of my favorite team.

nevcraw

01-18-2014, 12:35 PM

I might catch some flak for this, but I would trade Fox for any of the other 3 coaches left in the playoffs in a heartbeat. Carroll and Harbaugh are probably two of my favorite coaches in the league and while I hate BB he is definitely the best.

Don't get me wrong, I love Fox, but he's not exactly on that elite level of head coaches.

yeah u deserve some flak. has fielded very competitive teams that fight all game every game in both places. was smart enough to change the entire offensive philosophy mid season when Orton was clearly shitting the bed and his pants. and fox didn't loose the team in the process. rebuilt the defense, hired coaches that everyone now want for their teams, and inspires his team without being a douche.
will take that over those other 3 guys.. just saying.

BroncoWave

01-18-2014, 12:35 PM

:lol: He didn't exactly inherit a 'bad' team that most 1st year coaches do. I don't care how much you like him, I don't. You can defend him and brag about him, and pound your chest on how much you are right and try to tell me how ANYONE that doesn't agree with you is 'retarded' allllllll you want. But that dude is a complete and total DOUCHE, and I'm glad he's not the HC of my favorite team.

Hey Rav, GET UP! :lol:

BroncoWave

01-18-2014, 12:37 PM

yeah u deserve some flak. has fielded very competitive teams that fight all game every game in both places. was smart enough to change the entire offensive philosophy mid season when Orton was clearly shitting the bed and his pants. and fox didn't loose the team in the process. rebuilt the defense, hired coaches that everyone now want for their teams, and inspires his team without being a douche.
will take that over those other 3 guys.. just saying.

I'm not taking anything away from Fox. I think he is a very good coach. I think the other 3 are elite coaches, though. I certainly wouldn't fire Fox to hire anyone else because obviously that would mess up team chemistry and piss off players. But in a vacuum if I had to pick who I wanted coaching my team, Fox would be 4th of the 4 coaches left.

BroncoWave

01-18-2014, 12:41 PM

I'm just not turned off by the "douche bagginess" of the other coaches. As long as you are winning, who cares? A vast majority of coaches are douchebags. It's part of what makes many of them effective coaches.

Bosco

01-18-2014, 08:01 PM

So calling your own offensive plays is now the baseline for how good a head coach is? Where in the **** did I say that?

Yes, Fox delegates as a head coach, sure. But he also was a defensive coordinator in this league. Ironically enough, he was the defensive coordinator for the Giants in their 2000 Super Bowl. The offensive coordinator? Sean Payton. Yes, I'm well aware that he was a coordinator.

Would I put Fox ahead of truly elite coaches like Belicheck? No. But he's right up there with any of the other guys you mentioned. Which is...nearly word for word...what I have been saying in this very thread.

MOtorboat

01-18-2014, 08:19 PM

So calling your own offensive plays is now the baseline for how good a head coach is?

Where in the **** did I say that?

And all aboard the logic train:

Seriously? Just off the top of my head I'd take Belichick, either of the Harbaughs, McCarthy and Payton over him. Pagano is another one I like.

Fox is a good coach, no doubt, but he is certainly not in the brilliant/elite category that those guys are. He's also extremely conservative and that has come back to bite him in the ass many times over his career.

And why, dear Bosco, are they elite coaches?

With all due respect, that is one of the most ridiculously shallow, lowest common denominator type posts I've seen in awhile, and normally you're a very good poster.

Payton and McCarthy are arguably the two best play callers in all of football, and I doubt anyone who really knows football would dispute that. We saw how the Saints offense looked against good defenses last year without Payton's guidance. We lost Fox and basically nothing changed. Guys like Payton and McCarthy (among others) also call their own plays, something Fox has never done. Fox is almost an extension of the GM. His value has been in being a player's coach and building great staffs at both of his stops. One certainly cannot discount that contribution, but he has never been nor will he ever be the elite coach.

Not only did you use calling their own plays for your reasoning, it's the ONLY reason you gave for them being elite.

So...

Would I put Fox ahead of truly elite coaches like Belicheck? No. But he's right up there with any of the other guys you mentioned. Which is...nearly word for word...what I have been saying in this very thread.

No it's not. So, we then, again reference this post:

Seriously? Just off the top of my head I'd take Belichick, either of the Harbaughs, McCarthy and Payton over him. Pagano is another one I like.

Fox is a good coach, no doubt, but he is certainly not in the brilliant/elite category that those guys are. He's also extremely conservative and that has come back to bite him in the ass many times over his career.

Dude, I dunno... :whoknows:

tripp

01-18-2014, 08:28 PM

You can hate Bill Belichek for reasons like his fashion (dirty old sweater he wears), or the fact that the guy rarely ever smiles. You can't hate his knowledge of the game and what an advantage it is to have him be the head coach of your football team. I would take him over any coach in the NFL in a heart beat. As Broncos fans we should know better than most, this guy took the WIND over getting the ball in over time, and what happens? The wind plays a factor in a punt which results in New England winning the game. Love him or hate him, you know want him as your coach.

zbeg

01-19-2014, 03:20 AM

I'm not taking anything away from Fox. I think he is a very good coach. I think the other 3 are elite coaches, though. I certainly wouldn't fire Fox to hire anyone else because obviously that would mess up team chemistry and piss off players. But in a vacuum if I had to pick who I wanted coaching my team, Fox would be 4th of the 4 coaches left.

The only issue I have with Carroll is that his team has lead the league in PED suspensions since he took over, and it's not close. Given his shadiness at USC before going to Seattle, I think that at some point could be a liability.

But he's done a hell of a job coaching that defense. I can't stand the team, but their defense is simple but beautifully executed. If Denver gets past the Patriots tomorrow and Seattle holds serve at home, that's going to be a very interesting problem to solve for Denver's offense.

dogfish

01-19-2014, 04:48 AM

Seriously? Just off the top of my head I'd take Belichick, either of the Harbaughs, McCarthy and Payton over him. Pagano is another one I like.

Fox is a good coach, no doubt, but he is certainly not in the brilliant/elite category that those guys are. He's also extremely conservative and that has come back to bite him in the ass many times over his career.

With all due respect, that is one of the most ridiculously shallow, lowest common denominator type posts I've seen in awhile, and normally you're a very good poster.

Payton and McCarthy are arguably the two best play callers in all of football, and I doubt anyone who really knows football would dispute that. We saw how the Saints offense looked against good defenses last year without Payton's guidance. We lost Fox and basically nothing changed. Guys like Payton and McCarthy (among others) also call their own plays, something Fox has never done. Fox is almost an extension of the GM. His value has been in being a player's coach and building great staffs at both of his stops. One certainly cannot discount that contribution, but he has never been nor will he ever be the elite coach.

wait. . . i thought we were talking who we'd want as head coach, not offensive playcaller. . . what's wrong with what gase has done this year? why does fox need to do it personally? if building a great staff doesn't count as great coaching, you should take harbaugh off your list-- his staff is top notch. . .

also, your post reeks of front-running to me. . . the playcallers for brees and rodgers, the defending SB champ, bill B., and the NFC's two best teams. . . pretty easy arguments to make. . .

okay, start with just playcallers. . . i'll grant you, payton is the league's best. . . that's easy. . . abd i respect mccarthy a lot. . . is what he gets out of that elite talent (years into their scheme for many of them) better than what greg roman gets out of SF's roster? better than what mccoy did with a third-string O-line and no top receivers?

let's talk chip kelly. . . is coaxing an all-pro season out of brees or rodgers more impressive than a rookie NFL coach getting an all-pro season out of nick freaking foles?

and then, let's talk bruce arians. . . think they miss his playcalling in pittsburgh? and why would you take pagano's season this year over bruce's last year, where he took the left-for-dead-in-the-water colts from 2-14 to a division title, while guiding luck's insane rookie season? arians also did a masterful job in arizona this year, working with the corpse of carson palmer rather than a generational talent. . .

not to mention, how do you take pagano and his one good season (walking the road that arians paved) over the likes of mike tomlin and tom coughlin?

when compared to the likes of payton and mccarthy, fox has done more with less. . . the guy has changed gears on the fly from orton to tebow to manning. . . while losing both an offensive and a defensive coordinator, and undergoing heart surgery. . . he has left his imprint all over the roster-- fast inebackers, big mauler OLs, tough running backs. . . his signature's all over the team. . . he wasn't too conservative to let his QB throw a league-record 55 touchdown passes-- or to throw the ball on 3rd-and-17 with a playoff game on the line, so that one's debunked. . .

let me know when pagano wins a playoff game with tim frakin' tebow. . . :lol::lol:

Poet

01-19-2014, 05:31 AM

I've never been a big John Fox fan, although I acknowledge that he is a good head coach. He's always had that ultra-conservative style to him that feels outdated. Let's not forget that last year most of the board wanted his head on a stick for the playcalling on Denver's last possession in regulation. That's why I was so shocked, and well, happy for you guys, when he let Peyton Manning be Peyton Manning at the end of last weeks game.

He's definitely not a Belichek, it's hard to say that he's better than either of the Harboughs, he's not better than Coughlin, he's probably not better than Tomlin, I think Andy Reid is a superior coach, McCarthy and Payton are guys I'd rather have. The rank and worth of a coach these days seems to fluctuate at an incredible basis. Every couple years we hear that Coughlin should be fired. Another two time SB winning coach, your very own Shanahan just got booted. Tomlin was heralded as an elite coach, but now people are saying that he was only winning with Cowher's team, and he's missed the playoffs two years in a row. It's a sliding scale, really.

I will say this about Fox, though: when you get away from the handful of elite coaches that are left in the league, he's easily as good as anyone else. And, if he's going to continue to be less conservative than his younger days he might just end up in that elite category.

Anyway, I'll trade ya Marvin Lewis for him. :lol:

dogfish

01-19-2014, 05:54 AM

i will agree that fox is a step down from the "elite" coaches, but other than belly and probably payton, i'm not sure who those are. . . i do have a lot of repsect for harbaugh and carroll, but let them do it a few more years-- and/or win a title-- before we say that they're better than guys who have had sustained success at this level. . .

granted, i will also agree that the latter guys are a very different mold of "program builder"-- note their college roots. . . but even sleazy pete differs significantly from harbaugh. . . jim IS the guy that develops the QB. . . pete has his hands more directly on the defense. . .

fox isn't that guy. . . he HAS proven to be the perfect guy for this situation, though. . . he brings a more physical style of roster and play than dungy did, while still being smart enough to stay out of manning's way for the most part (yes, more this year-- give the guy credit for learning from his mistakes!). . . his quiet professionalism is far better suited to a manning team than the noisy and demonstrative antics of either NFCW coach. . .

ultimately, there are several models that can succeed. . . in our model, JFE is the final authority, the guy that gets to determine the long-term direction of the franchise. . . fox is a great fit as a seasoned, fundamentally sound coach who can still work with today's players. . . he's a great fit for what we need-- comparable to coughlin in new york, or cowher in his pittsburgh days. . . why is it a problem if he leans on his OC for X's and O's on that side of the ball, or the QB coach for developing the younger QBs? we're a destination franchise again-- we have the chops to hire the best young minds at those spots, and our top coach and exec work well together to find the right staff. . .

i'm not trying to act like fox is some kind of legend or anything, but the guy has done a damn good job, and he deserves respect for it. . .

Poet

01-19-2014, 06:02 AM

zbeg

01-19-2014, 06:12 AM

When you guys hired him you and I had a conversation about it. I maintained, and I still do, that if he had to go the typical route of building and coaching a team he was not a long term answer. Moot point because you signed and have PFM. I remember the collective sigh of relief when you hired a coach who was the opposite of he who will not be named.

Carrol is not an elite coach, FWIW. He was one year from being fired not that long ago. We'll also see how that team continues to develop. They signed Bennett to a one year deal and someone is going to pay him. Lynch is not a spring chicken and has a ton of tread on him. Counting on Harvin to give you a full season of great production is dubious at best. Oh, they're going to be good for quite some time, but I'm not sure they're going to be a perennial powerhouse past next season.

But uh, head coach swap, eh? You know you want Starvin Marvin.

Carroll's a defensive coach, and the Harvin injuries had nothing to do with his previous injury (ankle sprain, migraines), unless you think a sprained ankle makes you more susceptible to concussions or hip injuries.

What he has done is built a very good defense and has a scheme that plays to his players' strengths very well, and he's got them playing very disciplined, smart football on the defensive side. They rarely get out of their rush lanes or overpursue and they execute that scheme very well with the way the outside corners play press and then get into 3 deep zones.

I agree they'll have some cap issues coming as they have to find room to sign Wilson and Sherman to bigger deals. Wilson making a pittance gave them the money to sign Bennett and Cliff Avril, and they've made a big difference. But I don't think you could ask a coach to do much better than what Carroll's done with that defense.

No thanks on the HC swap. We know the real reason behind Marvin's success is now coaching the Vikings.

dogfish

01-19-2014, 06:15 AM

When you guys hired him you and I had a conversation about it. I maintained, and I still do, that if he had to go the typical route of building and coaching a team he was not a long term answer. Moot point because you signed and have PFM. I remember the collective sigh of relief when you hired a coach who was the opposite of he who will not be named.

Carrol is not an elite coach, FWIW. He was one year from being fired not that long ago. We'll also see how that team continues to develop. They signed Bennett to a one year deal and someone is going to pay him. Lynch is not a spring chicken and has a ton of tread on him. Counting on Harvin to give you a full season of great production is dubious at best. Oh, they're going to be good for quite some time, but I'm not sure they're going to be a perennial powerhouse past next season.

But uh, head coach swap, eh? You know you want Starvin Marvin.

nah, you know i think zimmer would've been the better long-term HC for you guys, let alone us. . . they won the better conference without harvin this year (coming out of the best division in football). . . turbin and michael will replace lynch. . . wilson can get better. . . they do need another end, but they'll draft and develop one-- that's what they do, and it's why i think pete the cheat IS an elite coach. . . check out their LBs, and where they got some of those corners. . . yea, they're also a little more flagrant about the PEDs. . . but, uhh. . .

von miller and dum***k williams said i better not say anything. . .

Poet

01-19-2014, 06:21 AM

nah, you know i think zimmer would've been the better long-term HC for you guys, let alone us. . . they won the better conference without harvin this year (coming out of the best division in football). . . turbin and michael will replace lynch. . . wilson can get better. . . they do need another end, but they'll draft and develop one-- that's what they do, and it's why i think pete the cheat IS an elite coach. . . check out their LBs, and where they got some of those corners. . . yea, they're also a little more flagrant about the PEDs. . . but, uhh. . .

von miller and dum***k williams said i better not say anything. . .

Harvin gets more important each year because that's when the first rounder they gave up for him would have hopefully been playing and improving. Trading a first rounder for a player who doesn't pan out - regardless of the reason - is a poison pill as you're essentially losing out on two players. They do have some running backs in the stable, but can you count on them to be as good as Lynch? I'm not convinced. They're set up for long term success. I don't doubt that. But if the Lynch replacement is close but not as good, and they still struggle to get another WR, and that line being what it is, etc, etc etc. I guess I see cracks in that roster preemptively. I understand your point, though, and you're usually more accurate with predictions than I am.

Poet

01-19-2014, 06:25 AM

Carroll's a defensive coach, and the Harvin injuries had nothing to do with his previous injury (ankle sprain, migraines), unless you think a sprained ankle makes you more susceptible to concussions or hip injuries.

What he has done is built a very good defense and has a scheme that plays to his players' strengths very well, and he's got them playing very disciplined, smart football on the defensive side. They rarely get out of their rush lanes or overpursue and they execute that scheme very well with the way the outside corners play press and then get into 3 deep zones.

I agree they'll have some cap issues coming as they have to find room to sign Wilson and Sherman to bigger deals. Wilson making a pittance gave them the money to sign Bennett and Cliff Avril, and they've made a big difference. But I don't think you could ask a coach to do much better than what Carroll's done with that defense.

No thanks on the HC swap. We know the real reason behind Marvin's success is now coaching the Vikings.

Harvin has always had injury issues in the NFL. He's always nicked up. It's a trend. I'm not calling him soft, but if you think you can count on him to consistently be out there and produce at a high level, well, you're a man of great faith.

As far as Zimmer goes, yeah, you're dead on. Marvin Lewis has issues controlling the locker room - to be fair he had a lot of guys in years past he didn't want - and it tanks. Then Zimmer shows up and magically the locker room gets better, the defense is actually good, and he's often doing it with retreads. Zimmer didn't inherit Geno Atkins, and he was there for the drafting of Joseph and Hall. He made Terrence Newman and Adam Jones look like corners again. I miss him already.

zbeg

01-19-2014, 06:37 AM

Harvin has always had injury issues in the NFL. He's always nicked up. It's a trend. I'm not calling him soft, but if you think you can count on him to consistently be out there and produce at a high level, well, you're a man of great faith.

Eh, we'll see. That was the knock on Demaryius Thomas, too. Or Knowshon Moreno. "He can't stay healthy, he's injury prone!" Until they weren't.

As far as Zimmer goes, yeah, you're dead on. Marvin Lewis has issues controlling the locker room - to be fair he had a lot of guys in years past he didn't want - and it tanks. Then Zimmer shows up and magically the locker room gets better, the defense is actually good, and he's often doing it with retreads. Zimmer didn't inherit Geno Atkins, and he was there for the drafting of Joseph and Hall. He made Terrence Newman and Adam Jones look like corners again. I miss him already.

I'm just surprised it took so long for him to get a HC gig. I know he was interviewed in the past and didn't get it, but I thought the Bengals were lucky to get an extra year or two out of him. I also wonder about the development of some of the younger players, particularly Margus Hunt. A 2nd rounder seems high on a project player, but with Zimmer around it makes a bit more sense.

Poet

01-19-2014, 06:50 AM

Eh, we'll see. That was the knock on Demaryius Thomas, too. Or Knowshon Moreno. "He can't stay healthy, he's injury prone!" Until they weren't.

I'm just surprised it took so long for him to get a HC gig. I know he was interviewed in the past and didn't get it, but I thought the Bengals were lucky to get an extra year or two out of him. I also wonder about the development of some of the younger players, particularly Margus Hunt. A 2nd rounder seems high on a project player, but with Zimmer around it makes a bit more sense.

Well, Moreno also get benched for mediocre play at one point, and Thomas only really had injuries problem for one year. This has been an ongoing issue for Harvin since year one. It's not just that he misses a lot of games, it's like even in half the games he's in he's so dinged up that he's not nearly as effective as he should be. I've seen that from Harvin since his rookie season. I don't think the guy's soft.

Zimmer seemed to have some issues because of his gruff personality, I think? The dude is a stud and he's by far my favorite coach that Cincy's had since I started watching football. The Hunt pick I think was insurance on Michael Johnson. But I agree with you on that, as Johnson was called a project player when we took him. God I'm going to miss Zimmer.

zbeg

01-19-2014, 07:13 AM

Well, Moreno also get benched for mediocre play at one point, and Thomas only really had injuries problem for one year. This has been an ongoing issue for Harvin since year one. It's not just that he misses a lot of games, it's like even in half the games he's in he's so dinged up that he's not nearly as effective as he should be. I've seen that from Harvin since his rookie season. I don't think the guy's soft.

DT had injuries his first two seasons and missed a good part of the offseason when Manning signed also due to injuries. There was a lot of handwringing over how injury prone he was and what he bust he was.

Harvin's missed games to an ankle injury, hip surgery, and a concussion. These things aren't really related.

Poet

01-19-2014, 04:02 PM

DT had injuries his first two seasons and missed a good part of the offseason when Manning signed also due to injuries. There was a lot of handwringing over how injury prone he was and what he bust he was.

Harvin's missed games to an ankle injury, hip surgery, and a concussion. These things aren't really related.

What does having unrelated injuries have to do with a player who is constantly injured? If a guy is often dinged and cannot play, he is often dinged and cannot play. It doesn't matter if the injuries are unrelated or not. It's only the conclusion or the result of the injuries that matter. Harvin had issues his rookie year, and has essentially missed a season and a half out of the last two years.

Missing the offseason is a bit different than missing games, and that's the criteria that I go by. Thomas has been fine for the past two years, and he had one big injury to start his career in Denver. I'd rather bank on Thomas' health than Harvin's. Thomas also doesn't have the nagging migraine headaches that Harvin does.