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WARHORSE
12-23-2013, 12:22 AM
Ive waited with my breath held this whole season to give Von a chance to show what the added muscle has done for him and the Broncos.

But when I initially heard it, I was thinking: "Didnt you guys see what happened to Pierre Paul? If Von has 18.5 sacks, why in the WORLD would you ADD THAT MUCH WEIGHT TO HIM NOT KNOWING WHAT EFFECT IT WILL HAVE?"

I was pissed when I first heard it but figured I'll keep my mouth closed and hope it helps. Now this.

Look at the photo of him in the Post and the man looks terrible. And if you look at the tape of him from last year, HE DOESNT HAVE THE SAME AGILITY TURNING THE CORNER.

Whoever made that call needs to be fired. Im not kidding.


Im not one to call for heads to roll......but let it roll.

Davii
12-23-2013, 12:39 AM
Ive waited with my breath held this whole season to give Von a chance to show what the added muscle has done for him and the Broncos.

But when I initially heard it, I was thinking: "Didnt you guys see what happened to Pierre Paul? If Von has 18.5 sacks, why in the WORLD would you ADD THAT MUCH WEIGHT TO HIM NOT KNOWING WHAT EFFECT IT WILL HAVE?"

I was pissed when I first heard it but figured I'll keep my mouth closed and hope it helps. Now this.

Look at the photo of him in the Post and the man looks terrible. And if you look at the tape of him from last year, HE DOESNT HAVE THE SAME AGILITY TURNING THE CORNER.

Whoever made that call needs to be fired. Im not kidding.


Im not one to call for heads to roll......but let it roll.

What if it was Von that made the call? Maybe 6 weeks with nothing to do but workout had something to do with it?

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 12:49 AM
I think he needs to play at 245, 270 was pointless.

GEM
12-23-2013, 12:56 AM
That was on Von, he said he wanted more weight and the time off allowed him to put on the weight in a healthy manner.

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 01:00 AM
That was on Von, he said he wanted more weight and the time off allowed him to put on the weight in a healthy manner.

Another in a long line of poor decisions.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-23-2013, 01:01 AM
He's 260. That's only 5 pounds heavier than last year.

GEM
12-23-2013, 01:03 AM
At the top of your game...lets make dtastic weight changes that will slow you down, limit agility and put more strain on your body.


Vvvvooooooonnnnn Miiiiillllllller, suuuuper genius!

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 01:04 AM
Came off suspension at 270lbs.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2013/10/18/von-miller-weight-return-colts-andrew-luck/3008943/

GEM
12-23-2013, 01:05 AM
No way he is 5 lbs over last year. He looks thick this season.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-23-2013, 01:08 AM
Didn't know that...but you guys act like he hasnt played well. He's actually played really well, just not as well as last year's all world performance.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-23-2013, 01:10 AM
No way he is 5 lbs over last year. He looks thick this season.

Before his suspension he was 260. Apparently, he put on another 10 pounds during his 6 week suspension.

GEM
12-23-2013, 01:10 AM
My point being is i think the weight is partly to blame in performance from last season to now.

silkamilkamonico
12-23-2013, 01:11 AM
Trade Miller save season

GEM
12-23-2013, 01:16 AM
Nah, just cut out midnight munchies. :)

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 01:22 AM
He also lost body fat.

I think missing the first 6 games had a lot to do with his drop in total numbers. He's only played in 8 games, not counting the Houston game. If you double his numbers, this is what his total season stats would have been similar to:

Year three:
(16 game projection)
66 combined tackles
52 total tackles
14 assisted tackles
10 sacks
6 forced fumbles

How does that compare to his first two years?

Year one:
15 games
64 combined tackles
50 total tackles
14 assisted tackles
11.5 sacks
2 forced fumbles

Year two:
16 games
68 combined tackles
55 total tackles
13 assisted tackles
18.5 sacks
6 forced fumbles

ShaneFalco
12-23-2013, 02:08 AM
this is nuts. He has an impact on almost every play whether he gets a sack or not.

Timmy!
12-23-2013, 02:22 AM
Dumb thread is dumb

nevcraw
12-23-2013, 02:47 AM
U are better off blaming his love of the chronic for the knee injury then a for few extra pounds… Better yet just blame football if it makes you feel better. No way he falls down "like he was shot" (IAOFM) shooting pool.

WARHORSE
12-23-2013, 05:44 AM
What if it was Von that made the call? Maybe 6 weeks with nothing to do but workout had something to do with it?


Really? If thats the case, then we need to fire the people in charge of his fitness........meaning That would DEFINITELY include anyone who sat back and watched him do it without saying anything.

Like these people.

Steve Antonopulos - Head Athletic Trainer
Corey Oshikoya - Assistant Athletic Trainer
Josh Hartman - Assistant Athletic Trainer
Vince Garcia - Assistant Athletic Trainer
Jason Klein - Assistant Athletic Trainer / Physical Therapist
Dr. Martin Boublik - Head Team Physician
Dr. J. Steven Geraghty - Team Physician
Dr. Jamie Genuario - Team Physician
Dr. Josh Metzl - Team Physician


I mean......what is it exactly that they do?

Northman
12-23-2013, 07:39 AM
At the top of your game...lets make dtastic weight changes that will slow you down, limit agility and put more strain on your body.


Vvvvooooooonnnnn Miiiiillllllller, suuuuper genius!

It was those damn Dorito's Locos Tacos i tell ya!

chazoe60
12-23-2013, 08:01 AM
I think the entire organization should be moved to LA for this travesty.

atwater27
12-23-2013, 08:15 AM
He also lost body fat.



I don't think his ACL cares if the extra weight is in fat or muscle.

broncofaninfla
12-23-2013, 10:36 AM
Von def looks thicker and doesn't seem to be making as many obvious impact plays but we are def a better team with him in the fold than not. Fingers crossed he can play in the playoffs and can return to form.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-23-2013, 11:22 AM
Suspended for the last six weeks, Broncos linebacker Von Miller has been working. Specifically, he’s been working out.

Jay Glazer of FOX Sports reports that Miller has gained 16 pounds of muscle, driving up his weight from 250 pounds to 266.

rest - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/20/von-miller-adds-16-pounds-of-muscle/

From another article:


By concentrating on nutrition and strength training during his suspension, Miller says, he bulked up to 262 pounds while bringing his body fat down to 10 percent

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9828393/hot-read-von-miller-benefited-little-known-rule-suspensions

Joel
12-23-2013, 11:31 AM
I still think the biggest problem is that Miller and Wolfe have only been on the field together for about a month all year. Each is far more effective when forcing teams to choose WHICH to prioritize. It's easier to doubleteam one guy than two.

artie_dale
12-23-2013, 11:45 AM
either way, I thought it was a mistake from the get-go. Why go away from something that was already very effective? pretty stupid if you ask me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Buff
12-23-2013, 01:05 PM
I agree War, but I don't blame the team as much as I blame Von. The guy was coming off an All-Pro season - why would you change your body makeup?

Joel
12-23-2013, 01:19 PM
I agree War, but I don't blame the team as much as I blame Von. The guy was coming off an All-Pro season - why would you change your body makeup?
In all fairness, 245 was kinda light for a traditional 4-3 Sam. Granted, Miller's a rather nontraditional 4-3, but there were good reasons he might want to bulk up a bit. Also, if he could overpower more blockers he wouldn't need go outmaneuver them so much; there HAVE been a few games where strong tackles manhandled him.

Poet
12-23-2013, 01:34 PM
I agree War, but I don't blame the team as much as I blame Von. The guy was coming off an All-Pro season - why would you change your body makeup?

Peer pressure.

SR
12-23-2013, 01:37 PM
Ive waited with my breath held this whole season to give Von a chance to show what the added muscle has done for him and the Broncos.

But when I initially heard it, I was thinking: "Didnt you guys see what happened to Pierre Paul? If Von has 18.5 sacks, why in the WORLD would you ADD THAT MUCH WEIGHT TO HIM NOT KNOWING WHAT EFFECT IT WILL HAVE?"

I was pissed when I first heard it but figured I'll keep my mouth closed and hope it helps. Now this.

Look at the photo of him in the Post and the man looks terrible. And if you look at the tape of him from last year, HE DOESNT HAVE THE SAME AGILITY TURNING THE CORNER.

Whoever made that call needs to be fired. Im not kidding.


Im not one to call for heads to roll......but let it roll.

The weight is really a non-factor, but if you're gonna bitch about something at least it was something dumb.

SR
12-23-2013, 01:38 PM
I think he needs to play at 245, 270 was pointless.

He was never 270.

Poet
12-23-2013, 01:39 PM
He was never 270.

He was secretly 295 pounds, brah.

SR
12-23-2013, 01:40 PM
My point being is i think the weight is partly to blame in performance from last season to now.

His performance wasn't bad this year. He didn't have another edge rusher to help take away pressure from him. Elvis was a MAJOR contributor to his 18.5 sacks last year.

Nomad
12-23-2013, 01:41 PM
Damn weed.....puts on weight and weakens muscle!


j/k:lol:

SR
12-23-2013, 01:42 PM
Really? If thats the case, then we need to fire the people in charge of his fitness........meaning That would DEFINITELY include anyone who sat back and watched him do it without saying anything.

Like these people.

Steve Antonopulos - Head Athletic Trainer
Corey Oshikoya - Assistant Athletic Trainer
Josh Hartman - Assistant Athletic Trainer
Vince Garcia - Assistant Athletic Trainer
Jason Klein - Assistant Athletic Trainer / Physical Therapist
Dr. Martin Boublik - Head Team Physician
Dr. J. Steven Geraghty - Team Physician
Dr. Jamie Genuario - Team Physician
Dr. Josh Metzl - Team Physician


I mean......what is it exactly that they do?

He was in impeccable shape...to be 260 and udner 10% bodyfat is remarkable. I think this argument is silly. What point are you even trying to prove?

SR
12-23-2013, 01:43 PM
I don't think his ACL cares if the extra weight is in fat or muscle.

I think it's heinous to even relate his ACL tear to his size gain. That's THE dumbest argument anyone could make.

BroncoJoe
12-23-2013, 01:44 PM
He was in impeccable shape...to be 260 and udner 10% bodyfat is remarkable. I think this argument is silly. What point are you even trying to prove?

Everyone is talking like the weight he put on was from sitting around being lazy. Good grief. Heaven forbid a LB weighs 260. Just dumb luck and had ZERO to do with his injury.

SR
12-23-2013, 01:47 PM
Everyone is talking like the weight he put on was from sitting around being lazy. Good grief. Heaven forbid a LB weighs 260. Just dumb luck and had ZERO to do with his injury.

Von at 260 with more mass didn't effect his speed off the LOS in any measurable way.

And FFS...god forbid a guy gain a little weight so that he's a little heavier and a little stronger at the end of the season instead of a little lighter and a little weaker. People seem to forget that during the course of a season a lof of players, especially lean guys like linebackers, lose 10+ pounds of muscle mass...when your job is to tackle people and be physical, 10 pounds of muscle is a lot. I have not ever had a problem with Von's weight gain.

claymore
12-23-2013, 01:51 PM
I think it's heinous to even relate his ACL tear to his size gain. That's THE dumbest argument anyone could make.

Im sure there is an argument there. He gained 16 lbs of muscle on an already frekishly fast and strong body. He knees might have been at max capacity prior to the muscle game, and the added torque and weight of those muscles tipped the scale.

claymore
12-23-2013, 01:55 PM
Everyone is talking like the weight he put on was from sitting around being lazy. Good grief. Heaven forbid a LB weighs 260. Just dumb luck and had ZERO to do with his injury.

I think any time someone gets that much stronger, that quick, something is going to give. It might not have been the weight alone, but Im sure that the added strength, weight and introduction to football (mid season) where he has to start fast, and stop fast didnt help whatsoever.

BroncoJoe
12-23-2013, 01:59 PM
I think any time someone gets that much stronger, that quick, something is going to give. It might not have been the weight alone, but Im sure that the added strength, weight and introduction to football (mid season) where he has to start fast, and stop fast didnt help whatsoever.

Just don't believe, with a highly athletic person, that a 6% increase is going to make that big of a difference. 6%. It's not like he went from 200 lbs to 260 lbs.

claymore
12-23-2013, 02:02 PM
Just don't believe, with a highly athletic person, that a 6% increase is going to make that big of a difference. 6%. It's not like he went from 200 lbs to 260 lbs.

Its the knee though. So every 1lb is like 5lbs to the knee. I think he would have been better off if it was 15lbs of fat vs muscle. The added strength and weight couldnt have helped his ACL. He was already a freak of nature as it was.

BroncoJoe
12-23-2013, 02:04 PM
Its the knee though. So every 1lb is like 5lbs to the knee. I think he would have been better off if it was 15lbs of fat vs muscle. The added strength and weight couldnt have helped his ACL. He was already a freak of nature as it was.

Thanks, Dr. Clay. :eyebrows:

SR
12-23-2013, 02:06 PM
I think any time someone gets that much stronger, that quick, something is going to give. It might not have been the weight alone, but Im sure that the added strength, weight and introduction to football (mid season) where he has to start fast, and stop fast didnt help whatsoever.

IMO, anyone making that argument is just looking for something to blame the tear on. It's a silly position to take.

weazel
12-23-2013, 02:12 PM
munchies

claymore
12-23-2013, 02:14 PM
IMO, anyone making that argument is just looking for something to blame the tear on. It's a silly position to take.

The weight gain didnt help with the ACL tear. I think from a medical standpoint we can all agree with that.

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 02:22 PM
He was never 270.

Then he's a liar.

BroncoJoe
12-23-2013, 02:24 PM
If weight was the reason for his knee to go out, what's the reasoning behind lineman who tip the scales at 300+? Shouldn't their knees be going out all day long?

From a medical standpoint, it makes not sense to relate the two. Just a freak accident on a shitty field. Again, we're talking about a 6% difference in weight. That's nothing.

blamkin86
12-23-2013, 02:49 PM
To the OP: I don't think this was a Broncos thing. I think this was Von trying to get stronger when he was out for the cheating/lying suspension.


Miller has paid much better attention to his diet, and notoriously late and absent-minded at times, has been more prompt and focused, sources said. In addition to working out at the Broncos' facility during his suspension, he spent time working with Chuck Smith, an esteemed pass-rushing coach. He has also spent more time watching film and taking a more nuanced approach to the game, team sources said.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24112005/broncos-lb-von-miller-returns-sunday-focused-in-best-shape-of-career

Joel
12-23-2013, 02:52 PM
If weight was the reason for his knee to go out, what's the reasoning behind lineman who tip the scales at 300+? Shouldn't their knees be going out all day long?

From a medical standpoint, it makes not sense to relate the two. Just a freak accident on a shitty field. Again, we're talking about a 6% difference in weight. That's nothing.
To be fair, linemen DO blow out their knees a LOT, and the weight doesn't help, but it's not the primary reason, and I doubt it was even a secondary reason here.

I'm still wondering if a torn anterolateral ligament explains that looseness in his knee he said he had even before the ACL tear. If so, I hope and pray they repair BOTH, else it's very likely he'll tear his ACL AGAIN in the next couple years; that would probably end his career. :(

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 02:59 PM
I've gained a lot of weight and my knees are fine. No homo.

claymore
12-23-2013, 03:11 PM
If weight was the reason for his knee to go out, what's the reasoning behind lineman who tip the scales at 300+? Shouldn't their knees be going out all day long?

From a medical standpoint, it makes not sense to relate the two. Just a freak accident on a shitty field. Again, we're talking about a 6% difference in weight. That's nothing.

Their knees go out all the time. I think this has more to do with starting at the midseason point than his weight. But, his weight absolutley didnt help the situation. 6% isnt much, unless you are already over the healthy limit.

GEM
12-23-2013, 03:27 PM
His performance wasn't bad this year. He didn't have another edge rusher to help take away pressure from him. Elvis was a MAJOR contributor to his 18.5 sacks last year.

I'm not saying his performance was bad, his performance has been disruptive. I just think the weight gain has not done him any favors.

zbeg
12-23-2013, 03:45 PM
Hey guys, I think there's a mistake. Unlike everyone else in this thread, I'm not a doctor - am I allowed to be here? I mean I can get my M.D. and return, but that takes about 10 years or so.

Anyway, I'm glad to read everyone's qualified medical expertise. I'm learning so much right now about how to diagnose the cause of an ACL tear from a message board. Neat stuff!

chazoe60
12-23-2013, 04:18 PM
Hey guys, I think there's a mistake. Unlike everyone else in this thread, I'm not a doctor - am I allowed to be here? I mean I can get my M.D. and return, but that takes about 10 years or so.

Anyway, I'm glad to read everyone's qualified medical expertise. I'm learning so much right now about how to diagnose the cause of an ACL tear from a message board. Neat stuff!
Welcome to the internet, a place for people to pontificate about shit. I see you're the last one to join us.

WTE
12-23-2013, 04:22 PM
Wes Welker blew his knee out on that same lousy field in 2009 making a very innocuous cut and he ain't fat.

zbeg
12-23-2013, 04:25 PM
Welcome to the internet, a place for people to pontificate about shit. I see you're the last one to join us.

I heard the real reason why Von tore his ACL is because his ACL was sleeping with John Fox's wife.

SR
12-23-2013, 04:58 PM
Wes Welker blew his knee out on that same lousy field in 2009 making a very innocuous cut and he ain't fat.

The fact that he was already experiencing looseness in his knee combined with the shitty turf hasn't been discussed enough. Sounds to me like he had a little RGIII scenario going except his was not known about by trainers. Sadly.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-23-2013, 04:59 PM
In all reality, if he was a fat tub of goo with no muscle tone the weight argument would have a little credibility. The reality is, increasing muscle strength and condition should help take pressure off of ligaments and tendons.

CrazyHorse
12-23-2013, 05:04 PM
Isn't Von the one who wanted to put on the extra weight? He said he felt looseness in his leg before the game. It's his fault for not telling the trainers. He could have worn a brace and prevented further injury. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at Miller.

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 05:19 PM
Does it really matter who's to blame?

Ravage!!!
12-23-2013, 05:22 PM
The extra weight did NOT add to the ACL tear. Who is saying this?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-23-2013, 05:25 PM
The extra weight did NOT add to the ACL tear. Who is saying this?

Uhm....posts going back 24 hours. Multiple offenders involved. :D

Northman
12-23-2013, 05:29 PM
I blame Tonya Harding.

Buff
12-23-2013, 05:33 PM
I love the 23 people who are taking this completely literally and insisting that his tendons are designed to support more weight than 260 lbs. No shit, braniacs...

The contention is that his finely tuned body was not accustomed to operating at such a high level over time with the extra bulk. It's all speculation - but it stands to reason that he should play at the weight where he was most effective - last season. And that was before his injury. Obviously nobody knows if there was a direct correlation between the injury and the added muscle... We are all speculating the same as the people are are adamant that the two were not related.

claymore
12-23-2013, 05:41 PM
In all reality, if he was a fat tub of goo with no muscle tone the weight argument would have a little credibility. The reality is, increasing muscle strength and condition should help take pressure off of ligaments and tendons.

I would think that to a point. But, Von is on the complete other side of the argument. Von is a brick shit house. I think there is a point where a body becomes to strong for itself. Bones, tendons, joints etc... will start to give way. Gaining 16 lbs of muscle in that short amount of time, I just don't see how its good for him.

CrazyHorse
12-23-2013, 06:18 PM
Does it really matter who's to blame?

No, but if he's not feeling right he should have let the training staff know.

Joel
12-23-2013, 06:19 PM
Muscle is denser than fat, therefore lowering his body fat and replacing it with muscle snapped his legs like a twig. Same thing happened to Vickerson when he added 50 lbs. and cut his body fat 10%. Someone call Shanny and Belicheck and tell them RGIII and Gronk need to go on a diet and workout less. I bet Adrian Peterson spent the offseason before last doing nothing but sitting around munching Ho-Hos. Aaaand THIS is why I hate oversimplifying things. ;)

SR
12-23-2013, 07:48 PM
The extra weight did NOT add to the ACL tear. Who is saying this?

Read the thread.

Broncolingus
12-23-2013, 07:52 PM
Does it really matter who's to blame?


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/43477610.jpg

Tned
12-23-2013, 07:58 PM
That was on Von, he said he wanted more weight and the time off allowed him to put on the weight in a healthy manner.

Some where in there is a joke about having the munchies...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 08:26 PM
No, but if he's not feeling right he should have let the training staff know.

We'll never know.

Joel
12-23-2013, 08:47 PM
Some where in there is a joke about having the munchies...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner
Yeah: Page one. ;) http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/571240-Im-P-O-ed-the-Broncos-Put-Weight-On-Von?p=2097796#post2097796 And (by another poster) page three: http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/571240-Im-P-O-ed-the-Broncos-Put-Weight-On-Von?p=2098112#post2098112

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
12-23-2013, 09:25 PM
This thread was a quite a roller coaster to go through

broncosinindy
12-23-2013, 09:30 PM
At the top of your game...lets make dtastic weight changes that will slow you down, limit agility and put more strain on your body.


Vvvvooooooonnnnn Miiiiillllllller, suuuuper genius!
I agree. But I think it was meant to show his dedication to the team ... this season blew up in his face.

WARHORSE
12-23-2013, 09:48 PM
The weight is really a non-factor, but if you're gonna bitch about something at least it was something dumb.


The weight is a non factor? Thats whats dumb. Bulk him up to 300 then.

Say something out of your norm....something smart.

WARHORSE
12-23-2013, 09:52 PM
He was in impeccable shape...to be 260 and udner 10% bodyfat is remarkable. I think this argument is silly. What point are you even trying to prove?]


Same point as from the beginning. I can type it slower but Im pretty sure its not gonna penetrate.


At the weight he carried last year.......he dropped opposing QBs on their heads 18.5 times.



Dont tell me his weight doesnt matter or I'll ignore every post you put up from here on out as being tainted with ignorance. (that should scare you into silence...ooh!)

chazoe60
12-23-2013, 09:59 PM
His weight doesn't matter.

WARHORSE
12-23-2013, 10:01 PM
If weight was the reason for his knee to go out, what's the reasoning behind lineman who tip the scales at 300+? Shouldn't their knees be going out all day long?

From a medical standpoint, it makes not sense to relate the two. Just a freak accident on a shitty field. Again, we're talking about a 6% difference in weight. That's nothing.


I dont think anyone is arguing that. People are different. Why does one man tear his ACL over and over and another one never? Why does someones achilles give out vs anothers not giving out?


BUT, just like some men are built to be able to withstand more than others, obviously his ACL makeup has to do with his genetics and whatever its max capacity is.....thats what it is.


Im not pissed so much about the acl as I am with the lack of agility and production Im seeing. Go back and watch tape from last year and you will see a man that can get horizontal and turn the corner while still using his power and speed.


He is NOT as agile this year imo. He still way young so I definitely blame the weight gain.

WARHORSE
12-23-2013, 10:03 PM
I love the 23 people who are taking this completely literally and insisting that his tendons are designed to support more weight than 260 lbs. No shit, braniacs...

The contention is that his finely tuned body was not accustomed to operating at such a high level over time with the extra bulk. It's all speculation - but it stands to reason that he should play at the weight where he was most effective - last season. And that was before his injury. Obviously nobody knows if there was a direct correlation between the injury and the added muscle... We are all speculating the same as the people are are adamant that the two were not related.



This man can actually read and comprehend the words written. I cant say that about everyone here though.

WARHORSE
12-23-2013, 10:06 PM
His weight doesn't matter.


Nor does the temperature of the sun.


We.....are......on.......a.......roll.

SR
12-23-2013, 10:13 PM
The weight is a non factor? Thats whats dumb. Bulk him up to 300 then.

Say something out of your norm....something smart.

You want something smart? Here goes.

Adding muscle mass and decreasing body fat isn't a contributor to his ACL tear. He's a professional athlete and a freak of nature who has never had a severe knee injury. When you increase mass, you increase strength, and increase the strength of your tendons and ligaments. Want to suggest his weight gain had something to do with his ACL tear? Back it up with facts. Don't bitch about it. My grandmother tore her ACL about 15 years ago making her bed. I had a partial tear in my lateral meniscus in 2008...that happened when I twisted funny getting in the shower. Weird shit happens sometimes. To suggest that the weight gain is responsible for an ACL tear when he obviously had a lingering issue that was probably a result of a play on the field is a stupid argument to even attempt to make. A man the size of Von before his weight gain is NOT going to get a fricken ACL tear because he put on a few pounds of muscle mass. Ever been to physical therapy for a joint injury?? How do physical therapists strengthen ligaments and tendons in a joint that has sustained an injury? They make the muscles around that joint stronger. Strong muscles = big muscles = more mass. More mass = higher resting metabolic rate (RMR) = more fat burned while resting and after exercise = Von Miller is ******* yoked. His bigger, stronger muscles ARE NOT the cause of his ACL tear.

SR
12-23-2013, 10:14 PM
]


Same point as from the beginning. I can type it slower but Im pretty sure its not gonna penetrate.


At the weight he carried last year.......he dropped opposing QBs on their heads 18.5 times.



Dont tell me his weight doesnt matter or I'll ignore every post you put up from here on out as being tainted with ignorance. (that should scare you into silence...ooh!)

Tainted in to ignorance...says the guy who created this thread. Go gain 15 pounds and run around...maybe you'll tear your ACL to...lolercopter.

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 10:31 PM
This man can actually read and comprehend the words written. I cant say that about everyone here though.

Translation:
Omg. This guy agrees with me. He so smart!

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 10:34 PM
His production hasn't dropped, according to his stats. Unless you mean his stats are greater for 16 games than 8 games. Then, no shit. I posted his projected stats if he started all 16 games. Has anyone replied to that or is it dismissed simply because it goes against your argument?

broncosinindy
12-23-2013, 10:36 PM
I don't know if the added weight contributed to his injury. But I can sag with it he just wasn't the same type of player. He needs to shed the weight

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 10:38 PM
Imagine what his stats would have been if Doom was still on the other side.

SR
12-23-2013, 10:39 PM
His production hasn't dropped, according to his stats. Unless you mean his stats are greater for 16 games than 8 games. Then, no shit. I posted his projected stats if he started all 16 games. Has anyone replied to that or is it dismissed simply because it goes against your argument?

He was one three sack game from getting on par. He had multiple multi-sack games last year. I don't think Von hit his stride at all this year. Also left out of the discussion has been how devastating the loss of Dumervil was to his stats.

broncosinindy
12-23-2013, 10:39 PM
His production hasn't dropped, according to his stats. Unless you mean his stats are greater for 16 games than 8 games. Then, no shit. I posted his projected stats if he started all 16 games. Has anyone replied to that or is it dismissed simply because it goes against your argument?id. Be interested in seeing it. I think also the loss of doom was big ... the pressures just don't seem to be there

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 10:39 PM
He was one three sack game from getting on par. He had multiple multi-sack games last year. I don't think Von hit his stride at all this year. Also left out of the discussion has been how devastating the loss of Dumervil was to his stats.

This guy can read. This guy is smart. This guy gets it. Unlike some people.

SR
12-23-2013, 10:43 PM
Imagine what his stats would have been if Doom was still on the other side.
Oops...saw this late. I agree.

SR
12-23-2013, 10:43 PM
This guy can read. This guy is smart. This guy gets it. Unlike some people.

Man, we are on a roll.

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 10:44 PM
He also lost body fat.

I think missing the first 6 games had a lot to do with his drop in total numbers. He's only played in 8 games, not counting the Houston game. If you double his numbers, this is what his total season stats would have been similar to:

Year three:
(16 game projection)
66 combined tackles
52 total tackles
14 assisted tackles
10 sacks
6 forced fumbles

How does that compare to his first two years?

Year one:
15 games
64 combined tackles
50 total tackles
14 assisted tackles
11.5 sacks
2 forced fumbles

Year two:
16 games
68 combined tackles
55 total tackles
13 assisted tackles
18.5 sacks
6 forced fumbles

Bump

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 10:47 PM
If Doom was on the team, Von's sack numbers would be higher.

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 10:49 PM
I'm no internist but to outright dismiss the extra weight like you're some kind of expert seems to be essentially the same thing as insisting it contributed, "six of one/half dozen of the other". Extra weight contributes to a lot of injuries, y'all split those hairs where you ya want.

SR
12-23-2013, 10:51 PM
I'm no internist but to outright dismiss the extra weight like you're some kind of expert seems to be essentially the same thing as insisting it contributed, "six of one/half dozen of the other". Extra weight contributes to a lot of injuries, y'all split those hairs where you ya want.

I hope Von comes out and says "I think the injury happened in (insert game here) on (insert play here)."

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 10:52 PM
Who is this Dumervil?

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 10:52 PM
I'm no internist but to outright dismiss the extra weight like you're some kind of expert seems to be essentially the same thing as insisting it contributed, "six of one/half dozen of the other". Extra weight contributes to a lot of injuries, y'all split those hairs where you ya want.

The original point of the thread was saying Von sucked this year because he's fat. Then the injury. Then the economy. Then world hungry. ******* Von, ruining the world.

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 10:53 PM
Who is this Dumervil?

According to espn, whatever that is, he has 9.5 sacks this season.

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 10:55 PM
I hope Von comes out and says "I think the injury happened in (insert game here) on (insert play here)."

Ok.

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 10:56 PM
According to espn, whatever that is, he has 9.5 sacks this season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5623/shaun-phillips

Is this the same Espn?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-23-2013, 10:57 PM
He was bumped on the side of his leg right when he was planting his foot on a bad surface. It's not surprising it happened. Why are we so desperate to blame someone?

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 10:58 PM
The original point of the thread was saying Von sucked this year because he's fat. Then the injury. Then the economy. Then world hungry. ******* Von, ruining the world.

You do realize that NFL people have been saying he's lost his quick twitch with the added weight?

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 11:00 PM
He was bumped on the side of his leg right when he was planting his foot on a bad surface. It's not surprising it happened. Why are we so desperate to blame someone?

It's your fault.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-23-2013, 11:00 PM
You do realize that NFL people have been saying he's lost his quick twitch with the added weight?

Never heard that.

Dapper Dan
12-23-2013, 11:01 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5623/shaun-phillips

Is this the same Espn?

Yes. That espn.

Do you really think Phillips is as disruptive as Doom?

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 11:11 PM
The original point of the thread was saying Von sucked this year because he's fat. Then the injury. Then the economy. Then world hungry. ******* Von, ruining the world.

http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/2127/a-full-look-at-half-a-broncos-season

Two biggest reasons to hang on to the worry beads: Start with the ability to protect Manning, especially in the team’s preferred three-wide set. Manning took far too much punishment in the three games before the bye and the best pass-rush teams the Broncos will face this season still remain on the schedule. Defensively, whether it be injuries or other reasons, the Broncos have only sporadically reached playoff level so far this season. Many folks in and around the league also believe linebacker Von Miller’s weight gain has not helped his play in his first two games back, that the added upper-body bulk has robbed him of some of the fast-twitch quickness off the ball and flexibility to bend that has made him a special pass-rusher in his first two seasons. The Broncos need that g

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 11:14 PM
Yes. That espn.

Do you really think Phillips is as disruptive as Doom?

I think there's absolutely no significant difference whatsoever.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-23-2013, 11:17 PM
Myth #2: Building muscle will cause you to become slower and less flexible.

This one goes back to the old days when people described bodybuilders as being "muscle bound" and "bulky". Contrary to what you may think, building a significant amount of lean muscle mass will actually speed you up rather than slow you down. Muscles are responsible for every movement that your body makes, from running to jumping to throwing. The bottom line is that the stronger a muscle is, the more force it can apply. Having stronger, more muscular legs means increased foot speed, just as having stronger and more muscular shoulders means the ability to throw farther. Strong muscles are able muscles, not the other way around.


http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/23396/bodybuilding/4_harmful_muscle_building_myths_uncovered.html

AND


According to Pro Football Focus, Miller's overall grade was nearly twice that of the next-best 4-3 outside linebacker, and his pass-rush grade was nearly four times that of the second-place player.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Millers-Loss-Latest-Adversity-to-Overcome/7fff4ba2-649d-4c6b-8e43-4cd5a58b9208

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 11:29 PM
No offense but I reject any study that suggests that Miller can run the same 4.4's, much less faster, at 270lbs. Same goes for flexibility.

SR
12-23-2013, 11:45 PM
No offense but I reject any study that suggests that Miller can run the same 4.4's, much less faster, at 270lbs. Same goes for flexibility.

Phil Heath, the current Mr Olympia who played college basketball at Denver University, is somewhere around 5'9", 280 pounds (offseason) and can still dunk. Kai Greene, Olympia runner up, often carries over 300 pounds offseason, can do the splits. Your assertion that bulk diminishes explosiveness and flexibility are a tad off base.

Simple Jaded
12-24-2013, 12:00 AM
Phil Heath, the current Mr Olympia who played college basketball at Denver University, is somewhere around 5'9", 280 pounds (offseason) and can still dunk. Kai Greene, Olympia runner up, often carries over 300 pounds offseason, can do the splits. Your assertion that bulk diminishes explosiveness and flexibility are a tad off base.
Off base for those two people, clearly.

Simple Jaded
12-24-2013, 12:01 AM
Don't get me wrong, I think Miller has played his ass off, this is a huge loss.

chazoe60
12-24-2013, 12:46 AM
This is just such a silly thing to be outraged about.

701Bronco
12-24-2013, 12:55 AM
The dude has done so much for us in 2 years, just helped us get the AFC west championship, and all people want to do is talk shit? It was different when he was suspended for weed, because this wasn't his fault. How do you think he's feeling about life right about now?

DenBronx
12-24-2013, 01:59 AM
Who is this Dumervil?

According to espn, whatever that is, he has 9.5 sacks this season.

Hmmm, I wonder what his cheaper, more versatile replacement has?

DenBronx
12-24-2013, 02:01 AM
Actually Von said he had felt a looseness in his knee the day before the game. I think this is more on Von not getting the proper treatment than any sort of muscle gain issues. Von adds muscle but loses brain cells...

SR
12-24-2013, 06:24 AM
The dude has done so much for us in 2 years, just helped us get the AFC championship, and all people want to do is talk shit? It was different when he was suspended for weed, because this wasn't his fault. How do you think he's feeling about life right about now?

Didn't make it to an AFCCG. Lost in the Division round at NE. The point remains the same. Good post.

SR
12-24-2013, 06:25 AM
Hmmm, I wonder what his cheaper, more versatile replacement has?

Phillips has been a big surprise, but he's not the pass rushing threat that Doom was/is. He doesn't draw nearly as much attention from linemen, TEs, and backs in pass pro. But i am immensely happy with his play this year.

WARHORSE
12-24-2013, 07:39 AM
You want something smart? Here goes.

Adding muscle mass and decreasing body fat isn't a contributor to his ACL tear. He's a professional athlete and a freak of nature who has never had a severe knee injury. When you increase mass, you increase strength, and increase the strength of your tendons and ligaments. Want to suggest his weight gain had something to do with his ACL tear? Back it up with facts. Don't bitch about it. My grandmother tore her ACL about 15 years ago making her bed. I had a partial tear in my lateral meniscus in 2008...that happened when I twisted funny getting in the shower. Weird shit happens sometimes. To suggest that the weight gain is responsible for an ACL tear when he obviously had a lingering issue that was probably a result of a play on the field is a stupid argument to even attempt to make. A man the size of Von before his weight gain is NOT going to get a fricken ACL tear because he put on a few pounds of muscle mass. Ever been to physical therapy for a joint injury?? How do physical therapists strengthen ligaments and tendons in a joint that has sustained an injury? They make the muscles around that joint stronger. Strong muscles = big muscles = more mass. More mass = higher resting metabolic rate (RMR) = more fat burned while resting and after exercise = Von Miller is ******* yoked. His bigger, stronger muscles ARE NOT the cause of his ACL tear.


Bravo! :congrats::congrats:


Now go back and show me where I said ANYWHERE that his weight gain is responsible for the ACL tear.

I said I was pissed they let him gain weight at all from the very beginning because I knew there was a possibility of adverse effect on his production. I WAITED, through his suspension and a few games to see what he would do and he is not the same guy imo.

The added weight, from looking at last years tape and this years, has affected his agility.

Now its his AGILITY not his ACL this thread was about. His injury just pissed me more.

Im looking at GAME TAPE from last year and this year.

He is NOT as agile turning the corner which most sack masters can do with exceptional athletic ability and explosion.

All this ignorance youre spewing is really comical. You only managed to derail the thread and make people think this is what its about. Clearly a feat.



Go back and find the quote where I said extra weight made him tear his ACL, starting with post number ONE.


Then pat yourself on the back and get back to me.

SR
12-24-2013, 08:05 AM
Bravo! :congrats::congrats:


Now go back and show me where I said ANYWHERE that his weight gain is responsible for the ACL tear.

I said I was pissed they let him gain weight at all from the very beginning because I knew there was a possibility of adverse effect on his production. I WAITED, through his suspension and a few games to see what he would do and he is not the same guy imo.

The added weight, from looking at last years tape and this years, has affected his agility.

Now its his AGILITY not his ACL this thread was about. His injury just pissed me more.

Im looking at GAME TAPE from last year and this year.

He is NOT as agile turning the corner which most sack masters can do with exceptional athletic ability and explosion.

All this ignorance youre spewing is really comical. You only managed to derail the thread and make people think this is what its about. Clearly a feat.



Go back and find the quote where I said extra weight made him tear his ACL, starting with post number ONE.


Then pat yourself on the back and get back to me.

That his weight gain was the culprit for his ACL injury was the argument I was making in the first damn place, genius. Look at post #36. The first couple of posts I made in this thread were merely commentary and not trying to argue any real point. Where I started my argument to dispell the ACL tear having any relation to his muscle mass gain was in post #36, a reply to Atwater27. Do I believe his mass gain had anything to do with his supposed lack of production? No. Chances are his fast twitch was imporoved as was his strength. Can that be argued, sure. I'm no doctor or scientist, but I do know a little bit about muscles and performance. Go ahead and be mad that he gained weight, good weight, if that's your prerogative. And hey, if you want, keep calling me ignorant. It doesn't bother me. I've been called worse.

Dapper Dan
12-24-2013, 08:06 AM
Bravo! :congrats::congrats:


Now go back and show me where I said ANYWHERE that his weight gain is responsible for the ACL tear.

I said I was pissed they let him gain weight at all from the very beginning because I knew there was a possibility of adverse effect on his production. I WAITED, through his suspension and a few games to see what he would do and he is not the same guy imo.

The added weight, from looking at last years tape and this years, has affected his agility.

Now its his AGILITY not his ACL this thread was about. His injury just pissed me more.

Im looking at GAME TAPE from last year and this year.

He is NOT as agile turning the corner which most sack masters can do with exceptional athletic ability and explosion.

All this ignorance youre spewing is really comical. You only managed to derail the thread and make people think this is what its about. Clearly a feat.



Go back and find the quote where I said extra weight made him tear his ACL, starting with post number ONE.


Then pat yourself on the back and get back to me.

Somewhere along the line, the topic changed, genius. Keep up with your own thread.

SR
12-24-2013, 08:11 AM
Somewhere along the line, the topic changed, genius. Keep up with your own thread.

Threads here never go off-topic. Amirite?

atwater27
12-24-2013, 08:57 AM
I think it's heinous to even relate his ACL tear to his size gain. That's THE dumbest argument anyone could make.

How could you NOT make that connection? One of the reasons we are seeing so many ACL tears is because increasing weight puts exponentially more stress on the thing. Moron.

atwater27
12-24-2013, 09:00 AM
Phil Heath, the current Mr Olympia who played college basketball at Denver University, is somewhere around 5'9", 280 pounds (offseason) and can still dunk. Kai Greene, Olympia runner up, often carries over 300 pounds offseason, can do the splits. Your assertion that bulk diminishes explosiveness and flexibility are a tad off base.

It's not about explosiveness and flexibility. It's about the ability of a tiny little connective tissue to handle quick changes of direction with the increased torque of having heavier weight involved. Get a clue.

GEM
12-24-2013, 10:22 AM
Hey Zeus H. Crimeny....can we have a discussion without getting personal? Some think it has played a role, some don't. It's all opinions. No reason to get all uppity with each other. Calm it down and that means ALL of ya. Both sides are devolving to nothing more than calling each other names because your opinions don't agree.

Dapper Dan
12-24-2013, 10:36 AM
Hey Zeus H. Crimeny...

Offensive. Language.

Dzone
12-24-2013, 11:13 AM
If he gained muscle(strength) and lost fat, then how is that detrimental?
edit-sorry, I just now came to this thread and didnt read the previous posts on here lol I didnt know there was an argument going on lol

chazoe60
12-24-2013, 11:36 AM
You know what I'm mad about? I'm mad that the Broncos let Travathan impregnate his wife. Seriously, since becoming a dad he's played terrible.

701Bronco
12-24-2013, 11:40 AM
Sorry I meant the AFC west champions!

Denver Native (Carol)
12-24-2013, 11:49 AM
I just looked up Von and Dumervil. Here is what I found:

Dumervil - 5'11" tall, 260 lbs. So far this year, Dumervil has played in all games for the Ravens, and has 31 tackles, 9.5 sacks

Von - 6'3" tall, 250 lbs. So far this year, Von (minus 6 games, plus 1 - he hurt his knee on the 2nd play of the game against Houston), has 34 tackles, 5.0 sacks.

If Dumervil, approx. 4 inches shorter than Von, and 10 lbs. heavier can be effective, how can any one justify that because of Von's added weight, it has hampered him. AND, Von, playing less games this year by far, has 3 more tackles than Dumervil.

It has been stated that the turf at Houston has resulted in many knee injuries.

Former Texans punter files lawsuit over 'unsafe turf' at Reliant Stadium

from article:


HOUSTON (AP) — Former Houston Texans punter Brett Hartmann has sued the county agency that operates Reliant Stadium, blaming "unsafe turf" for a possibly career-ending knee injury.

AND


The stadium recently installed removable AstroTurf to be used for non-NFL events. For Texans games, workers piece together more than 1,200, 8-by-8-foot palettes of real grass with forklifts. Hartmann caught his left foot in a seam between palettes and was placed on injured reserve. The lawsuit says Hartmann suffered a "significant and career-threatening injury."

full article - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/texans/2012/11/15/texans-brett-hartman-lawuit-reliant-stadium-unsafe-turf/1707461/

TimHippo
12-24-2013, 12:44 PM
I just looked up Von and Dumervil. Here is what I found:

Dumervil - 5'11" tall, 260 lbs. So far this year, Dumervil has played in all games for the Ravens, and has 31 tackles, 9.5 sacks

Von - 6'3" tall, 250 lbs. So far this year, Von (minus 6 games, plus 1 - he hurt his knee on the 2nd play of the game against Houston), has 34 tackles, 5.0 sacks.

If Dumervil, approx. 4 inches shorter than Von, and 10 lbs. heavier can be effective, how can any one justify that because of Von's added weight, it has hampered him. AND, Von, playing less games this year by far, has 3 more tackles than Dumervil.

Because you fail to include bone desnity and frame in your calculation. Dumervil has been thick and 260 almost his entire career. Von Miller is a natural linebacker and has the bone structure of a linebacker. At his normal weight he's one of the fastest linebackers in the NFL with 4.49 speed at 246 lbs at the NFL combine. If you add 20 lbs to that and his normal frame can't support it then injuries are going to happen because the muscles are too strong for the tendons and ligaments.

Your comparison to Dumervil is flawed. A more extreme way of putting it is that if Knowshown Moreno who is 5-11 220 lbs put on 40 lbs of muscle would he be hampered by injuries. He probably would be because his bone structure and frame can't handle it.

Dapper Dan
12-24-2013, 01:11 PM
So, how much does Von weigh? Everywhere online has him at 250.

The only things I can find are articles saying he's 260 or 270. Someone find him and make him step on a scale.

Poet
12-24-2013, 01:33 PM
This might be one of the more ridiculous threads I've seen in awhile. A. Blaming a player for tearing their ACL speaks for itself. B. If ten to fifteen pounds of muscles is going to do it, then I think many more players would be tearing their ACL's. You know, like running backs who add weight during the offseason? C. Watching people in this thread pretend to be doctors is actually the best thing ever. How many of you guys aced a physiology class? How are those medical degrees looking framed in your office?

WTE
12-24-2013, 01:48 PM
Here's proof that getting heavy contributes to tearing your ACL.

3947

SR
12-24-2013, 01:49 PM
You know what I'm mad about? I'm mad that the Broncos let Travathan impregnate his wife. Seriously, since becoming a dad he's played terrible.

He must have put on some weight. Only a gain in muscle mass could be the reason for something like this happening.

Poet
12-24-2013, 01:49 PM
Here's proof that getting heavy contributes to tearing your ACL.

3947

I sit corrected.

SR
12-24-2013, 01:50 PM
I just looked up Von and Dumervil. Here is what I found:

Dumervil - 5'11" tall, 260 lbs. So far this year, Dumervil has played in all games for the Ravens, and has 31 tackles, 9.5 sacks

Von - 6'3" tall, 250 lbs. So far this year, Von (minus 6 games, plus 1 - he hurt his knee on the 2nd play of the game against Houston), has 34 tackles, 5.0 sacks.

If Dumervil, approx. 4 inches shorter than Von, and 10 lbs. heavier can be effective, how can any one justify that because of Von's added weight, it has hampered him. AND, Von, playing less games this year by far, has 3 more tackles than Dumervil.

It has been stated that the turf at Houston has resulted in many knee injuries.

Former Texans punter files lawsuit over 'unsafe turf' at Reliant Stadium

from article:



AND


full article - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/texans/2012/11/15/texans-brett-hartman-lawuit-reliant-stadium-unsafe-turf/1707461/

Von had some looseness in his knee prior to the game. I think the knee just finally gave way on that play. Could be the turf. Could have just been a "shit happens" thing.

SR
12-24-2013, 01:58 PM
How could you NOT make that connection? One of the reasons we are seeing so many ACL tears is because increasing weight puts exponentially more stress on the thing. Moron.

I don't recall ever calling you any names?

Poet
12-24-2013, 02:04 PM
I find it highly doubtful that ten pounds of muscle on a 23/24 year old body of a linebacker is what caused the tear. You know how offensive lineman often bulk up and add a large amount of weight to their bodies? Wouldn't they be tearing their ACL's right, left, and center?

SR
12-24-2013, 02:16 PM
I find it highly doubtful that ten pounds of muscle on a 23/24 year old body of a linebacker is what caused the tear. You know how offensive lineman often bulk up and add a large amount of weight to their bodies? Wouldn't they be tearing their ACL's right, left, and center?


I concede, King. It was the weight gain. **** science.

Poet
12-24-2013, 02:19 PM
I concede, King. It was the weight gain. **** science.

Don't...make...me...say....it.........

Denver Native (Carol)
12-24-2013, 02:23 PM
from article:


When contact causes an ACL injury, it can be from playing a sport, from a sudden and severe accident, or from less obvious contact injuries. In football, receiving a clipping contact injury-in which the bent knee is struck from the outside-can cause an ACL injury.

full article - http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/anterior-cruciate-ligament-acl-injuries-cause

If I remember, one of the announcers stated that Von and the Houston player (I do not remember name) hit knees.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-24-2013, 02:27 PM
This video shows the difference between weeks 1-6, and then when Von was playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdMMv8C9wqo

Simple Jaded
12-24-2013, 03:10 PM
This might be one of the more ridiculous threads I've seen in awhile. A. Blaming a player for tearing their ACL speaks for itself. B. If ten to fifteen pounds of muscles is going to do it, then I think many more players would be tearing their ACL's. You know, like running backs who add weight during the offseason? C. Watching people in this thread pretend to be doctors is actually the best thing ever. How many of you guys aced a physiology class? How are those medical degrees looking framed in your office?

Are you somehow implying that we are not qualified to diagnose a finely tuned athlete from the comfort of our couch?

Simple Jaded
12-24-2013, 03:12 PM
from article:



full article - http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/anterior-cruciate-ligament-acl-injuries-cause

If I remember, one of the announcers stated that Von and the Houston player (I do not remember name) hit knees.

That was Eric Decker, Carol, Miller was just a freak thing while being blocked.

Poet
12-24-2013, 05:03 PM
Are you somehow implying that we are not qualified to diagnose a finely tuned athlete from the comfort of our couch?

I'm implying that you can do it, but I reserve the right to laugh at the stupidity of it. :D

SR
12-24-2013, 06:13 PM
I'm implying that you can do it, but I reserve the right to laugh at the stupidity of it. :D

It was the weight gain King. Succumb to it.

Poet
12-24-2013, 06:14 PM
It was the weight gain King. Succumb to it.

I've never torn my ACL.

/science!

SR
12-24-2013, 06:36 PM
I've never torn my ACL. /science!

I'm gonna start eating 4kcals and 400g of protein and carbs per day until I add 15 pounds of muscle then go play hockey. I bet I tear my ACL in eight weeks.

Poet
12-24-2013, 06:39 PM
I'm gonna start eating 4kcals and 400g of protein and carbs per day until I add 15 pounds of muscle then go play hockey. I bet I tear my ACL in eight weeks.

You're going to double tear your ACL's bro. Your frame and stuff.

SR
12-24-2013, 08:49 PM
You're going to double tear your ACL's bro. Your frame and stuff.

Peep it

Simple Jaded
12-24-2013, 11:46 PM
I'm implying that you can do it, but I reserve the right to laugh at the stupidity of it. :D

Deal, sit back and enjoy.

zbeg
12-24-2013, 11:52 PM
Phillips has been a big surprise, but he's not the pass rushing threat that Doom was/is. He doesn't draw nearly as much attention from linemen, TEs, and backs in pass pro. But i am immensely happy with his play this year.

I agree. He's definitely not replacing Dumervil's production, but 9 sacks and 23 hurries is a lot more than I expected, especially for the price Denver's paying him.

Simple Jaded
12-25-2013, 12:14 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/sacks/year/2013/seasontype/2

Actually, replacing Dumervil's production is exactly what Phillips is doing. Same impact? That's debatable, but the production is there.

DenBronx
12-25-2013, 02:01 AM
Bravo! :congrats::congrats:


Now go back and show me where I said ANYWHERE that his weight gain is responsible for the ACL tear.

I said I was pissed they let him gain weight at all from the very beginning because I knew there was a possibility of adverse effect on his production. I WAITED, through his suspension and a few games to see what he would do and he is not the same guy imo.

The added weight, from looking at last years tape and this years, has affected his agility.

Now its his AGILITY not his ACL this thread was about. His injury just pissed me more.

Im looking at GAME TAPE from last year and this year.

He is NOT as agile turning the corner which most sack masters can do with exceptional athletic ability and explosion.

All this ignorance youre spewing is really comical. You only managed to derail the thread and make people think this is what its about. Clearly a feat.



Go back and find the quote where I said extra weight made him tear his ACL, starting with post number ONE.


Then pat yourself on the back and get back to me.



You created a thread concerned that Miller's weight gain contributed to the injury but now you say weight gain wasn't the problem.

I'm sorry but I am highly confused here War.

atwater27
12-25-2013, 11:39 AM
Every pound of body weight adds 5 pounds of force on the knee. So if a world class athlete were to gain 10 to 15 pounds of weight, that is an additional 50 to 65 pounds of additional force their knee has to handle. 70% of ACL injuries are non contact injuries in the NFL. Athletes are bigger and quicker/faster than ever. The torque involved in a simple football move of a cut for a 260 pound player is astronomical in his knees especially. Put simply, big guys are not really supposed to move like that. And you can have the biggest, most awesome muscles and bones, but you can't roid up a piece of tiny cartilage in your knee. Added weight, whether in fat or muscle, without a doubt increases the strain and stress on your knee during NFL games using NFL moves. That is a fact and completely irrefutable. And you don't need to be a ******* doctor to recognize it. But you can be ignorant and refute it just for argument's sake.

SR
12-25-2013, 12:22 PM
Where are you getting those numbers from?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-25-2013, 12:52 PM
I ate so much last night I tore my ACL on the way to the bathroom.

Dapper Dan
12-25-2013, 01:02 PM
I ate so much last night I tore my ACL on the way to the bathroom.

Possibly the post of the year.

Simple Jaded
12-25-2013, 02:33 PM
I ate so much last night I tore my ACL on the way to the bathroom.

That's because it's not muscle, if had added muscle you'd get to the bathroom faster and had bigger, more agile poop.

Army Bronco
12-25-2013, 03:31 PM
I ate so much last night I tore my ACL on the way to the bathroom.As long as you don't tear it while taking a dump

atwater27
12-25-2013, 05:01 PM
Where are you getting those numbers from?
I made them up.


http://www.webmd.com/osteoarthritis/features/6-ways-to-ruin-your-knees?page=2
http://www.sportsmed.org/uploadedFiles/Content/Patient/Sports_Tips/ST%20ACL%20Injury%2008.pdf

Poet
12-25-2013, 05:25 PM
Every pound of body weight adds 5 pounds of force on the knee. So if a world class athlete were to gain 10 to 15 pounds of weight, that is an additional 50 to 65 pounds of additional force their knee has to handle. 70% of ACL injuries are non contact injuries in the NFL. Athletes are bigger and quicker/faster than ever. The torque involved in a simple football move of a cut for a 260 pound player is astronomical in his knees especially. Put simply, big guys are not really supposed to move like that. And you can have the biggest, most awesome muscles and bones, but you can't roid up a piece of tiny cartilage in your knee. Added weight, whether in fat or muscle, without a doubt increases the strain and stress on your knee during NFL games using NFL moves. That is a fact and completely irrefutable. And you don't need to be a ******* doctor to recognize it. But you can be ignorant and refute it just for argument's sake.

70% of them are non-contact, and his was a contact tear. The NFL is full of big guys who move like freaks. Assuming that the weight gain caused this assumes very much, Atwater.

spikerman
12-25-2013, 05:32 PM
So, I'm thinking that if Miller wants to stay at that weight and his knee injury reduces his speed from here on out the Broncos may have found their new Mike.

Poet
12-25-2013, 05:33 PM
So, I'm thinking that if Miller wants to stay at that weight and his knee injury reduces his speed from here on out the Broncos may have found their new Mike.

Joel just busted a nut.

spikerman
12-25-2013, 05:39 PM
Joel just busted a nut.

I should note that I'm saying that ONLY if he stays heavier and isn't as quick and agile with his knee. I'd much prefer him to rush the passer, but he is good against the run either way.

SR
12-25-2013, 06:19 PM
I made them up. http://www.webmd.com/osteoarthritis/features/6-ways-to-ruin-your-knees?page=2 http://www.sportsmed.org/uploadedFiles/Content/Patient/Sports_Tips/ST%20ACL%20Injury%2008.pdf

The numbers you quoted are for people who are overweight, not finely tuned machines called Von Miller. Stronger quads and hamstrings increase knee joint strength and stability, which is more likely in Von's case as opposed to the webmd link you posted about fat people.

atwater27
12-25-2013, 08:11 PM
70% of them are non-contact, and his was a contact tear. The NFL is full of big guys who move like freaks. Assuming that the weight gain caused this assumes very much, Atwater.

he said himself that his knee was loose before the game.

atwater27
12-25-2013, 08:17 PM
The numbers you quoted are for people who are overweight, not finely tuned machines called Von Miller. Stronger quads and hamstrings increase knee joint strength and stability, which is more likely in Von's case as opposed to the webmd link you posted about fat people.

Om my god dude. There is a correlation regardless of the source of extra weight. it is simple physics. You can be a beanpole and tear your ACL. All I am saying is that the added weight makes the forces on a tiny connective tissue exponentially higher. And jukes, power rushes (turning the corner), spin moves and such with extra weight on your natural frame make the likelihood of the injury only that much higher.

Poet
12-25-2013, 08:18 PM
he said himself that his knee was loose before the game.

Before the game can mean a very long time. Who is to say that he didn't loosen it in contact at practice? Or warmups? Let alone we discuss the fact that this can happen, but not that it did happen. In reality, you're only offering a possibility.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-25-2013, 08:33 PM
Kobe Bryant - 6'6" - 205 lbs. - suffered ACL injury

Derrick Rose - 6'3" - 190 lbs. - suffered ACL injury

Danilo Gallinari - 6'10" 225 lbs. - suffered ACL injury

All three of these basketball players weight less than Von, and all suffered ACL injuries

My point - athletes suffer ACL injuries. It happens in all sports

SR
12-25-2013, 08:36 PM
Om my god dude. There is a correlation regardless of the source of extra weight. it is simple physics. You can be a beanpole and tear your ACL. All I am saying is that the added weight makes the forces on a tiny connective tissue exponentially higher. And jukes, power rushes (turning the corner), spin moves and such with extra weight on your natural frame make the likelihood of the injury only that much higher.

So basically the weight gain was a non-factor.

SR
12-25-2013, 08:37 PM
Kobe Bryant - 6'6" - 205 lbs. - suffered ACL injury Derrick Rose - 6'3" - 190 lbs. - suffered ACL injury Danilo Gallinari - 6'10" 225 lbs. - suffered ACL injury All three of these basketball players weight less than Von, and all suffered ACL injuries My point - athletes suffer ACL injuries. It happens in all sports

Use Reggie Wayne's ACL tear against Denver as an example. He's what, 210? No contact whatsoever and a blown out knee.

Poet
12-25-2013, 08:49 PM
Carol is dominating this thread.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-25-2013, 09:13 PM
An ACL injury is a sprain, in which the ligament is torn or stretched beyond its normal range. In almost all cases, when the ACL is torn, it's almost always due to at least one of the following patterns of injury:

A sudden stop, twist, pivot or change in direction at the knee joint — These knee movements are a routine part of football, basketball, soccer, rugby, gymnastics and skiing. For this reason, athletes who participate in these sports have an especially high risk of ACL tears.

Extreme hyperextension of the knee — Sometimes, during athletic jumps and landings, the knee straightens out more than it should and extends beyond its normal range of motion, causing an ACL tear. This type of ACL injury often occurs because of a missed dismount in gymnastics or an awkward landing in basketball.

Direct contact — The ACL may be injured during contact sports, usually during direct impact to the outside of the knee or lower leg. Examples are a sideways football tackle, a misdirected soccer kick that strikes the knee or a sliding tackle in soccer.

http://www.drugs.com/health-guide/acl-anterior-cruciate-ligament-injuries.html

atwater27
12-25-2013, 11:13 PM
No offense but are you all deaf and blind? If twists, pivots and change of directions are a contributing factor for ACL tears, why wouldn't added weight increase the risk? Good Christ, am I talking to a wall?

SR
12-25-2013, 11:16 PM
No offense but are you all deaf and blind? If twists, pivots and change of directions are a contributing factor for ACL tears, why wouldn't added weight increase the risk? Good Christ, am I talking to a wall?

I haven't heard you say anything, so maybe I'm deaf? Clearly I'm not blind. And why would you talk to a wall?

Simple Jaded
12-25-2013, 11:19 PM
No offense but are you all deaf and blind? If twists, pivots and change of directions are a contributing factor for ACL tears, why wouldn't added weight increase the risk? Good Christ, am I talking to a wall?

Because Kobe Bryant isn't fat.

Poet
12-25-2013, 11:28 PM
No offense but are you all deaf and blind? If twists, pivots and change of directions are a contributing factor for ACL tears, why wouldn't added weight increase the risk? Good Christ, am I talking to a wall?

It might add to it, but it's a stretch to assume that the added weight caused it. If I ask you to prove that the weight caused the ACL tear, what evidence do you have to validate your claim?

Denver Native (Carol)
12-25-2013, 11:35 PM
Because Kobe Bryant isn't fat.

And neither is Derrick Rose, or Danilo Gallinari

Army Bronco
12-25-2013, 11:49 PM
No offense but are you all deaf and blind? If twists, pivots and change of directions are a contributing factor for ACL tears, why wouldn't added weight increase the risk? Good Christ, am I talking to a wall?Because the ACL would've strengthened to compensate for the added weight a while ago. I've sprained my ACL in highschool. I weighed 143 lbs. It was a hit to my upper body and another one at my feet while twisting away. Didn't take body weight. I weigh like 185 and am more active than most and haven't hurt my ACL again. I am kind of like a wall though, brain wise..lol

SR
12-25-2013, 11:51 PM
It might add to it, but it's a stretch to assume that the added weight caused it. If I ask you to prove that the weight caused the ACL tear, what evidence do you have to validate your claim?

A webmd article about overweight people

SR
12-25-2013, 11:52 PM
And neither is Derrick Rose, or Danilo Gallinari

Or Reggie Wayne

SR
12-25-2013, 11:52 PM
Because the ACL would've have strengthened to compensate for the added weight a while ago. I've sprained my ACL in highschool. I weighed 143 lbs. It was a hit to my upper body and another one at my feet while twisting away. Didn't take body weight. I weigh like 185 and am more active than most and haven't hurt my ACL again. I am kind of like a wall though, brain wise..lol

You're built like a brick shithouse

Poet
12-25-2013, 11:59 PM
A webmd article about overweight people

Assume that the article applied to all people. There's still a massive void of evidence needed to credibly assert that the reason Von Miller tore his ACL was because of the aforementioned weight.

Army Bronco
12-26-2013, 01:06 AM
Because the ACL would've have strengthened to compensate for the added weight a while ago. I've sprained my ACL in highschool. I weighed 143 lbs. It was a hit to my upper body and another one at my feet while twisting away. Didn't take body weight. I weigh like 185 and am more active than most and haven't hurt my ACL again. I am kind of like a wall though, brain wise..lol

You're built like a brick shithouse A shit house never the less brother.lol

Simple Jaded
12-26-2013, 01:37 AM
Because the ACL would've strengthened to compensate for the added weight a while ago. I've sprained my ACL in highschool. I weighed 143 lbs. It was a hit to my upper body and another one at my feet while twisting away. Didn't take body weight. I weigh like 185 and am more active than most and haven't hurt my ACL again. I am kind of like a wall though, brain wise..lol
Maybe Miller forgot to do his ligament exercises.

SR
12-26-2013, 09:14 AM
Assume that the article applied to all people. There's still a massive void of evidence needed to credibly assert that the reason Von Miller tore his ACL was because of the aforementioned weight.

Ass.u.me.

SR
12-26-2013, 09:15 AM
Maybe Miller forgot to do his ligament exercises.

Well, memory loss has been associated with marijuana use.

atwater27
12-26-2013, 09:25 AM
Show me in this thread where I said Von Miller's injury was definitely caused by extra weight. My point is that in general, added weight adds signifigantly larger forces on the knee. And if you are a big man that has quick athletic tendencies, you are a prime candidate, ala Jamal Anderson's injury And for the record, you cannot strengthen your ACL. It is what it is.

TXBRONC
12-26-2013, 09:48 AM
Use Reggie Wayne's ACL tear against Denver as an example. He's what, 210? No contact whatsoever and a blown out knee.

According to what read Wayne is 200 lbs. The only reason I looked it up is because I thought he was about 190 to 195 lbs. The point remains Miller being 262 lbs had nothing to do with knee injury.

TXBRONC
12-26-2013, 09:50 AM
And neither is Derrick Rose, or Danilo Gallinari

Or Von Miller.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-26-2013, 11:02 AM
ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. — Patriots coach Bill Belichick is blaming recently instituted NFL rules shortening offseason practice time for what he claims to be an increasing number of player injuries.

“I'm in favor of total preparation for the players for the season,” Belichick said during a conference call with Buffalo reporters this week in leading up to New England's home game against the Bills on Sunday. “And I think that's been changed significantly and, I would say, not necessarily for the better when you look at the injury numbers.”

Belichick said players are more vulnerable to being hurt because they're less prepared, and described the limits placed on offseason workouts — including training camp — as being counterproductive.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_24793537/bill-belichick-believes-this-is-why-there-are

Army Bronco
12-26-2013, 11:15 AM
Show me in this thread where I said Von Miller's injury was definitely caused by extra weight. My point is that in general, added weight adds signifigantly larger forces on the knee. And if you are a big man that has quick athletic tendencies, you are a prime candidate, ala Jamal Anderson's injury And for the record, you cannot strengthen your ACL. It is what it is.If your ACL cannot strengthen them how can you explain recovery and what is physical therapy... and I take part of my statement back about injuring my acl. I hurt mine a few years back training for an Army fight tourney. Some dude yanked on my right knee after agreeing to no knee attacks for safety. It was a pull and twist and had nothing to do with weight. ...back on topic, Your ACL is not exercised like a muscle but it does strengthen. Miller was hit while trying to go one direction and had planted his foot.

SR
12-26-2013, 11:53 AM
If your ACL cannot strengthen them how can you explain recovery and what is physical therapy... and I take part of my statement back about injuring my acl. I hurt mine a few years back training for an Army fight tourney. Some dude yanked on my right knee after agreeing to no knee attacks for safety. It was a pull and twist and had nothing to do with weight. ...back on topic, Your ACL is not exercised like a muscle but it does strengthen. Miller was hit while trying to go one direction and had planted his foot.

He quoted webmd, dude. You're wasting your time arguing now.

atwater27
12-26-2013, 01:21 PM
He quoted webmd, dude. You're wasting your time arguing now. I'll be here all day son. I cetainly bring more fact and logic into this conversation than you do. Keep on bringin it.

shank
12-26-2013, 01:34 PM
I'll be here all day son. I cetainly bring more fact and logic into this conversation than you do. Keep on bringin it.

yeah, son!

SR
12-26-2013, 01:55 PM
I'll be here all day son. I cetainly bring more fact and logic into this conversation than you do. Keep on bringin it.

I laughed.

DenBronx
12-26-2013, 03:44 PM
I'll be here all day son. I cetainly bring more fact and logic into this conversation than you do. Keep on bringin it.

LOL!

I like where this is going.

Army Bronco
12-26-2013, 03:55 PM
He quoted webmd, dude. You're wasting your time arguing now. I'll be here all day son. I cetainly bring more fact and logic into this conversation than you do. Keep on bringin it.lmao!!!

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-26-2013, 04:54 PM
That's because it's not muscle, if had added muscle you'd get to the bathroom faster and had bigger, more agile poop.

Seemingly so, but you have to be careful. My stomach muscles are so strong that if I push too hard when I go #2 the splash will hit the ceiling.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-26-2013, 05:12 PM
If your ACL cannot strengthen them how can you explain recovery and what is physical therapy... and I take part of my statement back about injuring my acl. I hurt mine a few years back training for an Army fight tourney. Some dude yanked on my right knee after agreeing to no knee attacks for safety. It was a pull and twist and had nothing to do with weight. ...back on topic, Your ACL is not exercised like a muscle but it does strengthen. Miller was hit while trying to go one direction and had planted his foot.

Additionally, when the musles around joints are strengthened it takes stress off of tendons and ligaments. Weight gane stressing joints is an issue with obesity, not world class athletes, generally speaking.

Timmy!
12-26-2013, 05:18 PM
Dumb thread is dumb

And if course it goes 14+ pages. :facepalm:

Poet
12-26-2013, 05:20 PM
And if course it goes 14+ pages. :facepalm:

You cosigned it, bro.

Timmy!
12-26-2013, 05:26 PM
You cosigned it, bro.

True.

This thread has me scared shitless. Being a fatty, Im terrified that if I ever stand up and take a step again both my acl's will explode like they have been hit with an m60 round. Im shopping for electric wheelchairs right now.

Poet
12-26-2013, 05:28 PM
True.

This thread has me scared shitless. Being a fatty, Im terrified that if I ever stand up and take a step again both my acl's will explode like they have been hit with an m60 round. Im shopping for electric wheelchairs right now.

Ironically, exercising as a fatty can lead to hurting your ACL, which puts us in a catch 22. We need to exercise with things that are gentle on the knees. I wonder if sexercise is a potentially a solution? I'll pick up any insurance that offers that as a treatment plan.

Army Bronco
12-26-2013, 08:39 PM
True.

This thread has me scared shitless. Being a fatty, Im terrified that if I ever stand up and take a step again both my acl's will explode like they have been hit with an m60 round. Im shopping for electric wheelchairs right now.

Ironically, exercising as a fatty can lead to hurting your ACL, which puts us in a catch 22. We need to exercise with things that are gentle on the knees. I wonder if sexercise is a potentially a solution? I'll pick up any insurance that offers that as a treatment plan.might injure the ACL in your penis.

Poet
12-26-2013, 08:41 PM
might injure the ACL in your penis.

My penis is solid.

Wait...wha?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-26-2013, 10:16 PM
Ironically, exercising as a fatty can lead to hurting your ACL, which puts us in a catch 22. We need to exercise with things that are gentle on the knees. I wonder if sexercise is a potentially a solution? I'll pick up any insurance that offers that as a treatment plan.

Now you want insurance to pay for hookers? I knew you were a democrat. :D

Poet
12-26-2013, 10:22 PM
Now you want insurance to pay for hookers? I knew you were a democrat. :D

At least it would be a very symbolic use of our tax dollars.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-26-2013, 10:28 PM
At least it would be a very symbolic use of our tax dollars.


Touche