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Denver Native (Carol)
12-19-2013, 03:28 PM
A week has passed since the Broncos mailed in a stinker against San Diego, and a few more days have gone by since the Miami Dolphins handed Denver a mulligan. Therefore, going into this Sunday’s game against lowly Houston, all is currently okay in Broncos Country. The playoffs are on the horizon.

Nobody wants the coaches or players looking ahead, but as fans and media, we have that luxury. We can talk playoffs, Super Bowl and beyond. We can even talk post-Peyton if we want.

Let’s look way ahead. What will the Broncos look like when “Plan B” – meaning no more Peyton Manning under center – takes full effect? We really have no idea at this point. While Denver’s depth at nearly every position has been tested this season, there is one position where we haven’t had to turn to a backup: Quarterback.

rest - interesting, and a suggestion as to what the Plan B could be
http://milehighsports.com/2013/12/19/knudson-theres-an-ideal-plan-b/

Northman
12-19-2013, 03:41 PM
Plan Oz will be fine.

powderaddict
12-19-2013, 03:56 PM
I wouldn't call that idea "interesting". I would call it "hot stinky garbage" though.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-19-2013, 04:22 PM
I wouldn't call that idea "interesting". I would call it "hot stinky garbage" though.

to each his own

MOtorboat
12-19-2013, 05:18 PM
No.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-19-2013, 07:31 PM
I would really like to at least give Oz a shot. He's big, strong, mobile, and has a cannon for an arm. If he is learning to read coverages and is comfortable in the pocket he might end up being a franchise QB.

BroncoWave
12-19-2013, 07:33 PM
If Oz had to come in this year, we would get smoked early in the playoffs. That's not to say he won't be good, but Manning masks a LOT of deficiencies on this team.

CrazyHorse
12-19-2013, 09:13 PM
Can he bring JPP and Cruz with him?

tripp
12-19-2013, 09:31 PM
We win Sunday, Chiefs lose, Pats lose.. we can afford to rest starters against Oakland.. no? Would love to see Oz play a full competitive-game.

pulse
12-20-2013, 12:28 AM
Eli to Denver after Peyton retires as a plan B? Haha! No way that happens. Just, no. Eli will not turn down the 100+ million dollar contract extension he will be offered this off season. And the Giants executives will offer it to him. They would be stupid not too. He counts 20.4 million against their cap next year. As bad a year ... *ahem* as horrible a year that the entire team has had, Eli's contribution, or lack thereof, is just not indicative compared to his championship winning career as a whole. And I find it a little mind-boggling how this author can even write this "what if" scenario when you consider how difficult franchise QBs are to come by. Way too many unknowns exist when choosing to go back to the draft to replace a franchise quarterback that has been entrenched in your offense for a decade. Unless injury (such as Peyton's neck) or retiring age (Brett Favre) is introduced into the equation, an NFL executive is going to take their chances with a proven commodity. Eli may suck this year, but he's proven, and he's way too young to consider the alternative. On the other hand, when offered, Eli will surely take the money and stay. Eli has won two championships in New York. I highly doubt he would want to just sit on the remaining two years of his current contract on a team with no cap room. He's going to want to rework an extension so the team has room to find missing pieces. He would be unwise to hamper the organization he is currently a part of because of a possible consideration of going elsewhere in the future. That's bad business in football and kind of classless in spite. I don't buy the media excuse either. He has got plenty of warm love and adoration from the New York media and fan base when they've played well and won. That kind of pressure is to be found in any big football town. Perhaps the pressure is more amplified because of shear numbers. But feast or famine, he plays quarterback for New York and it's one of the more glamorous positions in sports. He's survived previous famine and returned to praise and accolades twice already. And his team is in a division they could just as easily be back on top of in 12 months. I mean, really ... There's no apparent powerhouse to be found in that division. You sign the damn contract and commit to winning with the team that already got you to the top.

As for Denver, there is no plan B. If you get two more years out of Peyton Manning, great! In the meantime, you develop the talent behind him and give him a chance. Osweiler possesses the physical skills to be the heir apparent. But does he have the mental attributes and "it" factor to be Denver's next franchise QB? Sure, the odds are stacked against him. History would show that Brock probably won't be the next Aaron Rodgers with a clipboard. But he deserves the chance and it's a chance that Denver will take. (Unless, of course, Aaron Rodgers happens to develop a neck problem in 2014, sees Manning's surgeon, misses the entire 2015 season and gets cut....)

Joel
12-20-2013, 04:37 AM
Let’s look way ahead. What will the Broncos look like when “Plan B” – meaning no more Peyton Manning under center – takes full effect? We really have no idea at this point.
He could've begun and ended right there. I'd have rather had Eli than Peyton because Eli's younger and has repeatedly come through in the clutch, going on the road as a wildcard to beat VERY good Packers teams on their "frozen tundra" before upsetting the Cheatriots in the SB—and he's done both TWICE. All of which is why, as pulse notes, he's not going anywhere; he hasn't been great this year but the whole teams sucks and even the best QB can't polish a turd.

As for what we have in Oz, no one knows, and anyone who pretends they DO know he'll be a HoFer/washout isn't fooling anyone but themselves.

I'm far more focussed on Denver winning a SB with PEYTON Manning, because the fanbase that took that for granted once we signed him will go China Syndrome if it doesn't happen.

Simple Jaded
12-20-2013, 11:29 PM
Elway drafted Osweiler to be Plan B, just....... FYI.

Joel
12-21-2013, 08:21 AM
Elway drafted Osweiler to be Plan B, just....... FYI.
And SD drafted Leaf to be Plan A, just like Tampa with Testaverde, before that blew up in their faces and they drafted Steve Young to be Plan B. Then again, Denver traded with the Colts to make Elway Plan A and that worked out pretty well and quickly. The draft's a crap shoot, and we won't know what we've got (or don't) until/unless Mannings successor takes over for good.

tripp
12-21-2013, 12:23 PM
I think it's safe to say even though Oz is 2nd string QB, can't expect him to be better than any other back up QB just because he's playing behind Manning... look at Curtis Painter... :shocked:

MOtorboat
12-21-2013, 12:33 PM
I think it's safe to say even though Oz is 2nd string QB, can't expect him to be better than any other back up QB just because he's playing behind Manning... look at Curtis Painter... :shocked:

Curtis Painter was a throw-away hack sixth rounder who would have been camp fodder for any team not named Indianapolis. Osweiler was one of the better quarterback prospects in his draft. Huge difference.

tripp
12-21-2013, 12:37 PM
Curtis Painter was a throw-away hack sixth rounder who would have been camp fodder for any team not named Indianapolis. Osweiler was one of the better quarterback prospects in his draft. Huge difference.

Sure huge difference in where they were selected in the draft.

MOtorboat
12-21-2013, 12:38 PM
Sure huge difference in where they were selected in the draft.

And talent level.

tripp
12-21-2013, 12:42 PM
And talent level.

Not sure if can agree or disagree since Oz hasn't started an NFL game before. :/

MOtorboat
12-21-2013, 12:43 PM
Not sure if can agree or disagree since Oz hasn't started an NFL game before. :/

That's fair, but Osweiler was a better prospect than Painter, and it's not even a close comparison.

Joel
12-21-2013, 02:30 PM
Curtis Painter was a throw-away hack sixth rounder who would have been camp fodder for any team not named Indianapolis.
So was Brady. He's exceptional though; Bleacher Report did an overview a couple years ago: Nearly all starters were drafted in the first round, most of the rest in the second and after the third it was pretty much Brady and Romo (who wasn't drafted at all.) The draft's a crapshoot, and nowhere more so than QB, but nowadays the odds get pretty long after the second round.


Osweiler was one of the better quarterback prospects in his draft. Huge difference.
In terms of possibilities, sure, but that's all they are. We'll know when we know, which won't be until his second year starting, which in turn won't be for a quite a while. Till then debating Osweilers distant future as an NFL QB is just pointless speculation. Pointless speculation's admittedly among my hobbies, but I don't feel like chasing my tail the next three years or so. ;)

Meanwhile, I just hope Osweiler's studying his playbook, watching lots of film and getting the most of every practice and game snap he gets, which are reportedly precious few. In that respect, anything that gives him game experience is desirable, and I wouldn't mind going into Oakland with homefield clinched, records or no.

MOtorboat
12-21-2013, 02:45 PM
So was Brady. He's exceptional though; Bleacher Report did an overview a couple years ago: Nearly all starters were drafted in the first round, most of the rest in the second and after the third it was pretty much Brady and Romo (who wasn't drafted at all.) The draft's a crapshoot, and nowhere more so than QB, but nowadays the odds get pretty long after the second round.


In terms of possibilities, sure, but that's all they are. We'll know when we know, which won't be until his second year starting, which in turn won't be for a quite a while. Till then debating Osweilers distant future as an NFL QB is just pointless speculation. Pointless speculation's admittedly among my hobbies, but I don't feel like chasing my tail the next three years or so. ;)

Meanwhile, I just hope Osweiler's studying his playbook, watching lots of film and getting the most of every practice and game snap he gets, which are reportedly precious few. In that respect, anything that gives him game experience is desirable, and I wouldn't mind going into Oakland with homefield clinched, records or no.

Brady, and to a much lesser extent, Romo are the anomalies, the extreme exceptions to the rule.

The last eight Super Bowls have been won by quarterbacks drafted in the first and second round. The scouting of quarterbacks has changed. They don't miss them like they did Brady even 15 years ago.

nevcraw
12-21-2013, 06:45 PM
Oz was drafted in that spot based purely on potential - that is all.. Oh, and he better be the guy post manning cuz they passed on (2 definite and 1 more) likely franchise type QB's.

Joel
12-21-2013, 09:23 PM
Brady, and to a much lesser extent, Romo are the anomalies, the extreme exceptions to the rule.

The last eight Super Bowls have been won by quarterbacks drafted in the first and second round. The scouting of quarterbacks has changed. They don't miss them like they did Brady even 15 years ago.
I suspect (though it's hard to be sure) it's true they don't miss elite talents nearly as much/long as they used to; unfortunately, it doesn't follow from that they always (or even often) HIT it.

Great QBs rarely stick around past the 1st, let alone 2nd, unless there's a large obvious red flag (e.g. Russell Wilson's just under 6', but his inborn talent and acquired skill were great and apparent enough he still only lasted till the early 3rd.) Yet even in the first two rounds, plenty of QBs still fail spectacularly. Let's look at the last 10 years (excluding rookies for obvious reasons:)

2003
1st: (1) Carson Palmer (7) Byron Leftwich (19) Kyle Boller (22) Rex Grossman 2nd: None

2004
1st: (1) Eli Manning (4) Phillip Rivers (11) Ben Roethlisberger (22) J.P. Losman 2nd: None

2005
1st: (1) Alex Smith (24) Aaron Rodgers (25) Jason Campbell 2nd: None

2006
1st: (3) Vince Young (10) Matt Leinart (11) Jay Cutler 2nd: (17) Kellen Clemens (32) Tarvaris Jackson

2007
(1) JaMarcus Russell (22) Brady Quinn 2nd: (4) Kevin Kolb (8) John Beck (11) Drew Santon

2008
1st: (3) Matt Ryan (18) Joe Flacco 2nd: (24) Brian Brohm (25) Chad Henne

2009
1st: (1) Matthew Stafford (5) Sanchez (17) Freeman 2nd: (12) Pat White

2010
1st: (1) Sam Bradford (25) He Who Must Not Be Named 2nd: (16) Jimmy Clausen

2011
1st: (1) Cam Newton (8) Jake Locker (10) Blaine Gabbert (12) Christian Ponder 2nd: (3) Andy Dalton (4) Colin Kaepernick

2012
1st: (1) Andrew Luck (2) RGIII (8) Ryan Tannehill (22) Brandon Weeden 2nd: (25) Brock Osweiler

There's ~10 legit franchise QBs (and a few of those are debatable) among 31 first round picks, only about a third. There's at least 15 who are real clunkers, a few of which aren't even still playing. Of the dozen 2nd rounders, Dalton and Kaepernick are the only quality ones (and they were taken VERY early in the 2nd round of draft where teams blew 1st round picks on Gabbert, Ponder and (possibly) Locker.) Unless Osweiler's number three, of course, but the odds don't favor him.

Drafting a QB in the in the first two rounds definitely doesn't guarantee a quality starter—it's just the only way to avoid outright BLOWING the pick. Even waiting till the 2nd is pushing your luck.

Simple Jaded
12-22-2013, 12:23 AM
Oz was drafted in that spot based purely on potential - that is all.. Oh, and he better be the guy post manning cuz they passed on (2 definite and 1 more) likely franchise type QB's.

Who?

Simple Jaded
12-22-2013, 12:30 AM
And SD drafted Leaf to be Plan A, just like Tampa with Testaverde, before that blew up in their faces and they drafted Steve Young to be Plan B. Then again, Denver traded with the Colts to make Elway Plan A and that worked out pretty well and quickly. The draft's a crap shoot, and we won't know what we've got (or don't) until/unless Mannings successor takes over for good.

The draft is a crap shoot, understood, been following the NFL draft literally for decades. The point of this thread is "Plan B", Brock Osweiler is that plan. Like it or lump it. Barring something unforeseen or Manning playing out his contract Brock Osweiler will be Denver's next starting QB.

It is pointless to speculate beyond Osweiler.

nevcraw
12-22-2013, 01:11 AM
Who?

Wilson, Foles, and maybe Cousins…

Simple Jaded
12-22-2013, 02:33 AM
Wilson, Foles, and maybe Cousins…

Already ,huh?

underrated29
12-22-2013, 11:19 AM
Eli manning sucks. He sucks hardcore. I do not want him ever on this team. I 100% right now would start Brock on our team over Eli next year (if next year was the year 2015 or whatever)

BroncoWave
12-22-2013, 11:31 AM
Eli manning sucks. He sucks hardcore. I do not want him ever on this team. I 100% right now would start Brock on our team over Eli next year (if next year was the year 2015 or whatever)

Could not agree more. I would not take Eli Manning if he payed Denver to be on the team.

tripp
12-22-2013, 02:48 PM
3rd down conversions today are tough. real tough.

Broncolingus
12-22-2013, 08:54 PM
Knudson: There’s an ideal Plan B




Hapsburg's Plan B?

http://shebloggedbynight.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/pc10-6.jpg

Simple Jaded
12-22-2013, 09:17 PM
I just don't get where people are coming from when they'd rather a QB like Osweiler over Eli Manning.

Broncolingus
12-22-2013, 09:19 PM
I just don't get where people are coming from when they'd rather a QB like Osweiler over Eli Manning.

http://robertatrindade.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/crack3.jpg

BroncoWave
12-22-2013, 09:22 PM
I just don't get where people are coming from when they'd rather a QB like Osweiler over Eli Manning.

Because Eli is horrible, and he is in his 30s. Give me the young guy with potential over that any day.

Simple Jaded
12-22-2013, 09:42 PM
Because Eli is horrible, and he is in his 30s. Give me the young guy with potential over that any day.

Eli is a proven Top 10 QB, we're not even sure if Osweiler is a Top 10 backup.

BroncoWave
12-22-2013, 09:49 PM
Eli is a proven Top 10 QB, we're not even sure if Osweiler is a Top 10 backup.

I could not disagree more with that. He has always been an average to above average QB whose legacy is WAY over-inflated because of a couple of Super Bowls his defense and running game (and luck) carried him to.

He will never sniff the top 10 ranks of QBs again. I think it would be insane to take him over Osweiler.

Simple Jaded
12-22-2013, 11:14 PM
I could not disagree more with that. He has always been an average to above average QB whose legacy is WAY over-inflated because of a couple of Super Bowls his defense and running game (and luck) carried him to.

He will never sniff the top 10 ranks of QBs again. I think it would be insane to take him over Osweiler.

Eli Manning = Trent Dilfer (2)?

You are certainly entitled to your wrong opinion.

BroncoWave
12-22-2013, 11:25 PM
No, Trent Dilfer > Eli Manning

Simple Jaded
12-23-2013, 12:54 AM
No, Trent Dilfer > Eli Manning

If you say so, 100% of the NFL community would completely disagree, even Dilfer, but I'm sure you already know that.

Cugel
12-23-2013, 12:14 PM
I would really like to at least give Brian Griese a shot. He's big, strong, mobile, and his arm is as strong as Joe Montana's. If he is learning to read coverages and is comfortable in the pocket he might end up being a franchise QB.

There. I fixed it for you. :coffee:

Know how many QBs have been drafted outside the top 33 picks in the draft since Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round in 2001?

Around 133.

Know how many not named Russell Wilson have been any good? NONE.

Not one.

There have been a couple of guys who are still in the NFL. Kyle Orton 4th rounder started for a while, but everybody who wasn't a blind homer knew all along that he was a career backup at best.

And Matt Shaub was a 3rd rounder who just got the entire coaching staff fired, because they stuck too long with him as their starter.

And Tony Romo went undrafted. Do any of you want him? I just couldn't stand to watch the games if I were a Cowboy's fan, praying for a miracle, and yet knowing in my heart that Romo was going to fail in the clutch, because he always waits till the last possible minute to fail.

So, the chances of Osweiler being anything other than another Brian Griese are less than 1%.

And even Russell Wilson has only had the one great season. He's yet to prove anything when the chips are down in the playoffs, whereas Eli Manning (despite his truly horrible season) has taken a team on his back and willed them to 2 SB championships, out dueling Tom Brady each time.

Eli is not leaving NY unless his next season is as bad as his last. And even then, someone is going to give him another chance to start somewhere and pay him ridiculous money to do it too. How many chances did Brett Favre get before he finally proved he couldn't do it anymore?

Cugel
12-23-2013, 12:19 PM
I could not disagree more with that. He has always been an average to above average QB whose legacy is WAY over-inflated because of a couple of Super Bowls his defense and running game (and luck) carried him to.

He will never sniff the top 10 ranks of QBs again. I think it would be insane to take him over Osweiler.

Yup. It was all the defense's doing when the Giants were 6-5. Eli was just along for the ride. It's not as if he had anything to do with making a clutch sideline throw to Victor Cruz to ice the SB. Nothing to see here. Move it along. And while we're at it, Joe Flacco had nothing to do with wining the SB last year either! :rolleyes:

BroncoJoe
12-23-2013, 12:24 PM
Not ragging on Eli - IMO he's a far above average QB who is having a miserable year. Normally I'd take him in a heartbeat.

That said, I'd still take my chances with OZ. Young, cannon, knows the system. Selfishly, we need our next QB to be here for a career, not the end of one.