PDA

View Full Version : Del Rio- where does his blame lie in this loss?



GEM
12-13-2013, 08:17 AM
I told my dad last night, Del Rio chose the wrong time for making a statement with Woodyard. Woodyard, is the heart of that defense, good or bad. You dont bench that guy without some repercussion from the play in the field. You dont drop a bomb on a team in week 14, which is what Del Rio did. His unit looked sloppy and no cohesion, that starts at the top, not the bottom.

SR
12-13-2013, 08:34 AM
Horrible coaching. This team has made it this far on talent alone.

MasterShake
12-13-2013, 08:35 AM
You may be on to something because that defense looked lost out there. I think our team was getting too comfy with itself (again!) and it bit them in the ass as they tried to get cute with the roster in the crucial final quarter of the season.

claymore
12-13-2013, 08:58 AM
You may be on to something because that defense looked lost out there. I think our team was getting too comfy with itself (again!) and it bit them in the ass as they tried to get cute with the roster in the crucial final quarter of the season.

We are to big for our britches. The lack of discipline, and proffesionalisim will bite us in the ass. I understand the complaints about the roster, but the problem is deeper than that IMO. We are lazy, and overconfident. If they shut Manning down the whole rest of the team pisses down their leg.

Broncolingus
12-13-2013, 09:03 AM
The team lost last night in every facet...

...probably the worst overall game of the season - intensity, execution, and yes, coaching (...did they make ANY adjustments as the game progressed?...)

Every team has a bad game or two...but the timing (and direction) of the team should be concerning to Bronco fans...

Teams that win in the post season do so by peaking and playing their best ball at the end of the regular season...

...that just isn't Denver right now - particularly on defense - and quite frankly doesn't bode well.

But, I'm a Bronco Fan (not Donkster) so hopefully they'll get it fixed in the next couple of games...

MasterShake
12-13-2013, 09:10 AM
The team lost last night in every facet...

...probably the worst overall game of the season - intensity, execution, and yes, coaching (...did they make ANY adjustments as the game progressed?...)

Every team has a bad game or two...but the timing (and direction) of the team should be concerning to Bronco fans...

Teams that win in the post season do so by peaking and playing their best ball at the end of the regular season...

...that just isn't Denver right now - particularly on defense - and quite frankly doesn't bode well.

But, I'm a Bronco Fan (not Donkster) so hopefully they'll get it fixed in the next couple of games...

I have to remember to be critical in their wins as well as their losses this season. I think back to that Dallas game and a few others, and while fun, those games could have really changed the dynamic of our season had we lost. The Chargers are a good example of a team that more often than not fell on the bad side of luck this season and is probably better than their record indicates. Either way, I'm keeping my support with my team no matter what and I still like our chances in the postseason. You do have to ask them what the **** they are hoping to accomplish playing like morons sometimes though.

Krugan
12-13-2013, 09:29 AM
There are coaching issues, such as not getting webster some help out there.

He has been the whipping boy for a few weeks now, and well he is a rookie.

I dont care if everyone thinks champ is done, he is head and shoulders better then 2 of the 3 out there, and we NEED him back.

Not blaming this all on a rook, but the holes at corner back are and will continue to be the biggest issue this season.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-13-2013, 09:34 AM
I can't necessarily blame the D. We had 18 yards rushing. How many first downs did we have in the 2nd and 3rd quarters? There were four consecutive drives where we gained a total of around 10 yards and 3 times had 3 and outs.

blamkin86
12-13-2013, 09:34 AM
Gem I'm just a casual fan, but I don't think you can hang that one on the defense.

Peyton had nowhere to throw the ball last night. Give the bolts some credit; they followed our other two losses and somehow limited our receiving corps. The running game didn't make 'em pay so we're staring at a loss.

Their defense caused Peyton's interception last night - give credit where credit is due. Our OLine was so-so, their corners were great.

Just the opinion of a casual fan.

BigDaddyBronco
12-13-2013, 09:38 AM
There are coaching issues, such as not getting webster some help out there.

He has been the whipping boy for a few weeks now, and well he is a rookie.

I dont care if everyone thinks champ is done, he is head and shoulders better then 2 of the 3 out there, and we NEED him back.

Not blaming this all on a rook, but the holes at corner back are and will continue to be the biggest issue this season.
Unfortunately, when Champ has played this year he has been picked on worse than Webster and yanked from the game. It may be injury, but Champ looks done.

Hopefully Moore can come back for the playoffs, but I doubt it. I think our defense is going to have to be a bend, but not break with amping up the pass rush if we get a lead for the rest of the year and the playoffs. If we don't shit down our leg like we did last night on offense and put up 30 a game, we can win the whole thing.

artie_dale
12-13-2013, 09:56 AM
The team lost last night in every facet...

...probably the worst overall game of the season - intensity, execution, and yes, coaching (...did they make ANY adjustments as the game progressed?...)

Every team has a bad game or two...but the timing (and direction) of the team should be concerning to Bronco fans...

Teams that win in the post season do so by peaking and playing their best ball at the end of the regular season...

...that just isn't Denver right now - particularly on defense - and quite frankly doesn't bode well.

But, I'm a Bronco Fan (not Donkster) so hopefully they'll get it fixed in the next couple of games...

Nope, not true. Just last year, the Ravens lost 4 out of their last 5 games, AND they lost their last regular season game to Cinci. Their coaches got them in gear when it mattered most. I'm still waiting for our Coaches to get this defense in gear. The Broncos have just as good a chance to win the SB as anyone else.

GEM
12-13-2013, 09:59 AM
I can't necessarily blame the D. We had 18 yards rushing. How many first downs did we have in the 2nd and 3rd quarters? There were four consecutive drives where we gained a total of around 10 yards and 3 times had 3 and outs.

Hard to get a rhythm going when the offense is only on the field 10 minutes out of the first half. Keep Manning off the field game plan worked wonders.

artie_dale
12-13-2013, 09:59 AM
I can't necessarily blame the D. We had 18 yards rushing. How many first downs did we have in the 2nd and 3rd quarters? There were four consecutive drives where we gained a total of around 10 yards and 3 times had 3 and outs.

I can understand this logic if we lost 13 to 10. But we lost 27 to 20. The off sides during 4th and 4 sure didn't help. The Defense or even the coaching gets the bulk of the blame for this game.

Broncolingus
12-13-2013, 10:01 AM
Nope, not true. Just last year, the Ravens lost 4 out of their last 5 games, AND they lost their last regular season game to Cinci. Their coaches got them in gear when it mattered most. I'm still waiting for our Coaches to get this defense in gear. The Broncos have just as good a chance to win the SB as anyone else.

I guess I thought it was obvious it was a generalization...

...does this now work for you?


The team lost last night in every facet...

...probably the worst overall game of the season - intensity, execution, and yes, coaching (...did they make ANY adjustments as the game progressed?...)

Every team has a bad game or two...but the timing (and direction) of the team should be concerning to Bronco fans...

Generally speaking, but not in every instance of every season of the recorded history of the NFL, teams that win in the post season do so by peaking and playing their best ball at the end of the regular season...

...that just isn't Denver right now - particularly on defense - and quite frankly doesn't bode well.

But, I'm a Bronco Fan (not Donkster) so hopefully they'll get it fixed in the next couple of games...

GEM
12-13-2013, 10:06 AM
There are coaching issues, such as not getting webster some help out there.

He has been the whipping boy for a few weeks now, and well he is a rookie.

I dont care if everyone thinks champ is done, he is head and shoulders better then 2 of the 3 out there, and we NEED him back.

Not blaming this all on a rook, but the holes at corner back are and will continue to be the biggest issue this season.

That was pissing me off. You see the kid getting beat to shit and do nothing to adjust to it. I think Webster will be good in the long run, I think that getting picked on now will build character and skill for the future, but we need to win now with the window we have.

I don't know that I've seen another team with the luck this one has had this year, injury and penalty wise, nothing seems to be going right, really surprising we're 11-3.

Ahhh well, hope the week and a half gives them some time to get some shit figured out.

Mike
12-13-2013, 10:10 AM
Gem I'm just a casual fan, but I don't think you can hang that one on the defense.

Peyton had nowhere to throw the ball last night. Give the bolts some credit; they followed our other two losses and somehow limited our receiving corps. The running game didn't make 'em pay so we're staring at a loss.

Their defense caused Peyton's interception last night - give credit where credit is due. Our OLine was so-so, their corners were great.

Just the opinion of a casual fan.

It was just an all around failure. Denver got beat on both sides of the ball. There is no reason that our offense should have struggled against their defense. I guess jamming the WR and being physical with them is the way to take them out of them out of the game.

But it is hard to argue against the defense. Constant lapses in coverage and untimely penalties have been a problem all season. They were lucky they didn't catch a couple of stupid unsportsmanlike penalties as well. And your defense just can't let a team hold on to the football for an entire quarter. I don't know if the players don't understand what Del Rio wants or if Del Rio's scheme is bad, but the gaps and open spaces in the defense has been a problem all year and will be exploited by any of the QBs that Denver will face in the playoffs. It also doesn't help when it looks like players are out of position or fail to execute when they are in the right position.

This wasn't just a problem last night, they have plagued the team all year. Denver has flirted with a loss like last night several times this year. They are just talented enough to pull most of them out especially against inferior teams.

Denver's Special Teams is awful, outside of Prater. Like I said last night, their offense and defense are just soft and undisciplined. Unless Manning is bringing his A game the team is likely to lose. I am not inspired by the coaches...any of them. The team is a reflection of leadership and with the constant repeating problems it is hard to argue that there are no true leaders on the team.

Every team in the hunt this year has weaknesses, so Denver still has as good a shot to get to and win the SB as any. But not if they don't address the repeated problems. Turnovers, stupid penalties, failure to get off the field or play where you are supposed to play, etc. They just will not be able to get away with it and beat the better teams in the AFC.

VonDoom
12-13-2013, 10:17 AM
That was pissing me off. You see the kid getting beat to shit and do nothing to adjust to it. I think Webster will be good in the long run, I think that getting picked on now will build character and skill for the future, but we need to win now with the window we have.

I don't know that I've seen another team with the luck this one has had this year, injury and penalty wise, nothing seems to be going right, really surprising we're 11-3.

Ahhh well, hope the week and a half gives them some time to get some shit figured out.

The film from this game will not be pretty. If they don't change things up, this is going to be a real short trip to the postseason. Anyone can tell that Webster is ripe for the pickings right now and teams will exploit that. These ten days better be used to figure out how to change this fact.

Slick
12-13-2013, 10:20 AM
I thought Webster had pretty good coverage all night. Phyllis threw some great passes, and their Oline dominated our guys in the trenches. They played better than Denver did.

VonDoom
12-13-2013, 10:27 AM
I thought Webster had pretty good coverage all night. Phyllis threw some great passes, and their Oline dominated our guys in the trenches. They played better than Denver did.

True - Rivers had far too much time to throw the ball and when he did, he made some great plays. Gotta hand it to that little b*tch. Anyway, Webster is learning, but he's just not good enough right now. Tennessee went right after him on that first drive on Sunday and SD did the same thing last night. They took him off Royal, and then Rivers threw to whoever he was covering (can't remember who it was at the moment) on the next play.

Broncolingus
12-13-2013, 10:28 AM
I thought Webster had pretty good coverage all night. Phyllis threw some great passes, and their Oline dominated our guys in the trenches. They played better than Denver did.

Well said, brother...

I have seen no significant increase in the pass rush since Von's return...

Every team, even those with the best defenses week in and week out, will have blown coverage's (zone) and just getting beat (man)...

I'm not saying that Denver's secondary is playing great, or doesn't have it's problems, but the pass rush - particularly from the down-four - has been hit and miss all season and that's where it all starts.

...and the ability to do that becomes even MORE important when you hit the post season.

Mike
12-13-2013, 10:35 AM
The film from this game will not be pretty. If they don't change things up, this is going to be a real short trip to the postseason. Anyone can tell that Webster is ripe for the pickings right now and teams will exploit that. These ten days better be used to figure out how to change this fact.

On the plus side, this kind of loss can be used to drive the players and motivate them going in to the playoffs. That is the only positive thing that I am looking at this morning.

Ravage!!!
12-13-2013, 10:40 AM
when you lose two starting DTs, a starting safety, a staring corner (no matter what, the guys playing for champ are back-ups) your MLB is no longer in the line-up because of play.... it DOES take a toll on yoru defense. Schemes HAVE to change to try and compensate fo the LACK of starting bodies on the field. There is a BIG drop off from Vickerson to the next guy, and then we still have to replace Wolfe.

The truth of the matter is, we can blame the VERY COACH we have been applauding, or realize that his hands are pretty tied right now given that the personnel is down to 2nd stringers and 3rd depth guys at a lot of positions.

Mike
12-13-2013, 10:53 AM
when you lose two starting DTs, a starting safety, a staring corner (no matter what, the guys playing for champ are back-ups) your MLB is no longer in the line-up because of play.... it DOES take a toll on yoru defense. Schemes HAVE to change to try and compensate fo the LACK of starting bodies on the field. There is a BIG drop off from Vickerson to the next guy, and then we still have to replace Wolfe.

The truth of the matter is, we can blame the VERY COACH we have been applauding, or realize that his hands are pretty tied right now given that the personnel is down to 2nd stringers and 3rd depth guys at a lot of positions.

The holes in the secondary and the wide open WR with nobody within 10 yards has been a glaring problem since the beginning of the season though.

broken12
12-13-2013, 10:59 AM
Taking woodyard out is a mistake, he almost int brady to win us game, spped to get outside were we got gashed last night and his leadership and fire imo

VonDoom
12-13-2013, 11:00 AM
On the plus side, this kind of loss can be used to drive the players and motivate them going in to the playoffs. That is the only positive thing that I am looking at this morning.

Want some positivity? I saw this nugget somewhere else this morning. The last four Super Bowl champions have lost in week 15 (Ravens to us last year, Giants when it looked like their season was over, Packers in 2010, and Saints in 09, their first loss of the year). I'm not predicting anything, I'm just saying that it is possible to get it turned around leading into the playoffs. Let's see if we can figure it out.

claymore
12-13-2013, 11:06 AM
I thought Webster had pretty good coverage all night. Phyllis threw some great passes, and their Oline dominated our guys in the trenches. They played better than Denver did.

I thought the same thing. We did not lose because of Webster. He did great against the run as well.

arapaho2
12-13-2013, 11:23 AM
when you lose two starting DTs, a starting safety, a staring corner (no matter what, the guys playing for champ are back-ups) your MLB is no longer in the line-up because of play.... it DOES take a toll on yoru defense. Schemes HAVE to change to try and compensate fo the LACK of starting bodies on the field. There is a BIG drop off from Vickerson to the next guy, and then we still have to replace Wolfe.

The truth of the matter is, we can blame the VERY COACH we have been applauding, or realize that his hands are pretty tied right now given that the personnel is down to 2nd stringers and 3rd depth guys at a lot of positions.


this team with vick and wolfe gave up 48 points to the cowboys and was the worst passing defense in the league for weeks

we have sucked with von, without von, with wolfe and vick, without wolfe or vick, with champ, without champ, with woodyard, without woodyard

the only constant is the terrible coaching on defense. we have had multiple 12 man penalties all season, in every game we play there is always that one defensive stop, sometime multiple in a game...that is kept alive by stupid penalty, like vick bumping qbs, the offsides on punt last night....it just goes on and on

on top of stupid play....we cant seem to be able to stop anybody, we supposedly improved the roster, yet we suck

this JDR led defense has held a team below 20 points twice in 14 games, one of the was the jags at 19...last year 9 games below 20...including 3 below 10


look at last years post season loss if you need a refresher of what can happen in the playoffs if your defense cant stop anybody

topscribe
12-13-2013, 11:55 AM
It was just an all around failure. Denver got beat on both sides of the ball. There is no reason that our offense should have struggled against their defense. I guess jamming the WR and being physical with them is the way to take them out of them out of the game.

But it is hard to argue against the defense. Constant lapses in coverage and untimely penalties have been a problem all season. They were lucky they didn't catch a couple of stupid unsportsmanlike penalties as well. And your defense just can't let a team hold on to the football for an entire quarter. I don't know if the players don't understand what Del Rio wants or if Del Rio's scheme is bad, but the gaps and open spaces in the defense has been a problem all year and will be exploited by any of the QBs that Denver will face in the playoffs. It also doesn't help when it looks like players are out of position or fail to execute when they are in the right position.

This wasn't just a problem last night, they have plagued the team all year. Denver has flirted with a loss like last night several times this year. They are just talented enough to pull most of them out especially against inferior teams.

Denver's Special Teams is awful, outside of Prater. Like I said last night, their offense and defense are just soft and undisciplined. Unless Manning is bringing his A game the team is likely to lose. I am not inspired by the coaches...any of them. The team is a reflection of leadership and with the constant repeating problems it is hard to argue that there are no true leaders on the team.

Every team in the hunt this year has weaknesses, so Denver still has as good a shot to get to and win the SB as any. But not if they don't address the repeated problems. Turnovers, stupid penalties, failure to get off the field or play where you are supposed to play, etc. They just will not be able to get away with it and beat the better teams in the AFC.
This is what puzzles me. Fox's teams have never been soft. So what's up with
that now? Is the assistant coaches or what?

When the Broncos landed Del Rio, I was ecstatic. And he led a top-five defense
last year. But now, it seems he has gone into some kind of funk with his
decisions. Zone coverage with man personnel? Yanking Woodyard? I know the
injuries, the losses of Vickerson, Champ, Moore, and Wolfe have something to
do with it. But it has nothing to do with the lack of discipline that lets a team
out of a punting situation at their own seven yardline. Or trying to arm tackle
Mathews and Woodhead again and again.

I think you and some others here are right. Much of it comes down to coaching.
Fox is the one who has to take control of that. I hope he does.
.

blamkin86
12-13-2013, 12:00 PM
It was just an all around failure. Denver got beat on both sides of the ball. There is no reason that our offense should have struggled against their defense. I guess jamming the WR and being physical with them is the way to take them out of them out of the game.

That's pretty much where I am. They also scored one more touchdown last night than they did at SD; we scored one less. PFM threw an interception last night, at their place he didn't. For that I blame the OLine and, like I said, give some credit to their corners who shut down our receivers.

I realize it looked bad, but for whatever reason I'm still hopeful for a "Greater than one-and-done" playoff this year. With Welker, we win that game last night.

It's not like the defense threw up a stinker; they've pretty much been below par all year. Maybe that's what you guys are saying.

Broncolingus
12-13-2013, 12:10 PM
This is what puzzles me. Fox's teams have never been soft. So what's up with
that now? Is the assistant coaches or what?

When the Broncos landed Del Rio, I was ecstatic. And he led a top-five defense
last year. But now, it seems he has gone into some kind of funk with his
decisions. Zone coverage with man personnel? Yanking Woodyard? I know the
injuries, the losses of Vickerson, Champ, Moore, and Wolfe have something to
do with it. But it has nothing to do with the lack of discipline that lets a team
out of a punting situation at their own seven yardline. Or trying to arm tackle
Mathews and Woodhead again and again.

I think you and some others here are right. Much of it comes down to coaching.
Fox is the one who has to take control of that. I hope he does.
.


I agree...

...and commented on the same thing last night (...not look at me, just thinking the same thing...)

I've always thought - and still do I guess - that Fox and DelRio are two of the better/best defensive minds in the game...

...which I would think would translate on the field for the defense especially :confused:

Idk...

...someone mentioned talent level in another thread, and I'm starting to wonder if there really is a lot of talent on the defensive side of the ball...

Idk...

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-13-2013, 12:15 PM
Hard to get a rhythm going when the offense is only on the field 10 minutes out of the first half. Keep Manning off the field game plan worked wonders.

I'm not just talking about "getting into a rhythm". I'm just talking about not getting a first down. I'm talking about not being able to run the ball.

NightTerror218
12-13-2013, 12:19 PM
I think it is time for champ to come in Webster is gwtting picked on too much. Qbs are targeting him.

What happened to ground game? 11 attempts?

BroncoJoe
12-13-2013, 12:25 PM
It's very difficult to sweep a division like the AFCW - especially in back to back years. If we were going to lose, I'm at least happy it was to the Chargers and not the Chiefs.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-13-2013, 12:29 PM
Gem-

I am being a bit of a hypocrite, I must confess. I was complaining last night that the tweeks with the D are obviously not working. It definitely hurts not having Big Vic in their to eat up double teams. It also hurts not having Rahim Moore. However, I still don't understand benching Duke. He's easily the best tackling player we have in the secondary. There were a few tackles I saw Adams miss that I believe Nacho would have made. I believe our best D has Nacho and Woody on the field. Lenon is not good in coverage and doesn't have the sideline to sideline speed.

topscribe
12-13-2013, 12:32 PM
I thought Webster had pretty good coverage all night. Phyllis threw some great passes, and their Oline dominated our guys in the trenches. They played better than Denver did.
The Chargers outplayed Denver in all three phases, all night.

Regarding coverage, any defensive backfield will look bad if the pass rush
isn't there. And it wasn't there most of the night. But we can't blame that on
the pass rush itself, either. When a team can run the ball like the Chargers
did, it hurts the pass rush. So I look beyond Von and Phillips in that regard.
I look at the absence of Vickerson and Wolfe. And Woodyard. :mad: No way
is an over-the-hill Lenon better than Woodyard, and he proved it tonight.
.

Lancane
12-13-2013, 12:35 PM
The failure on defense is not just on Del Rio, but he does hold a ****load of the blame. After all, a Coordinator has to cover-up shortcomings on the roster with his defensive scheme and overall game planning both which have been questionable for that side of the ball. Fox also holds some blame, he is the head coach and it's his job to make the coordinators and coaches man-up and do their damn jobs, a problem that Shanahan had here in Denver due to his closeness and various friendships with the staff...not to mention that the roster has been weakened, not just by injury but also by negligence on the part of the Front Office.

Let's face facts, this defense was a Top Ten unit last season - so what changed? I believe the loss of Dumervil's leadership has stunted the defense front, even though Shaun Phillips stepped in and has been solid, you can see a lack of fire on the defense, when you look at the defensive leaders Denver has not one of them is on the field, Bailey (out and may be done for his career), Woodyard's play has declined rapidly to cost him his spot, Wolfe got sick and though he's recovering there could be other more long-term effects from it for him, Vickerson is lost for the season due to his hip injury and not getting any younger. I'd say leadership is a problem, Von Miller has time and again said that "Dumervil is Batman and I'm Robin", "I'm not sure that it's my time to be Batman" and so on. Despite the emergence of stars like Ihenacho, Trevathan and Rodgers-Cromartie, what Denver really lacks is something that they have not lacked in a long, long time, leaders. Atwater, Wilson, Bailey, Lynch, Dawkins, all veteran leaders who made a difference, give them a talented squad and that unit becomes that much better, it also points to a lack of that same missing element from the sidelines which rests on Del Rio. Denver needs to revamp the defense, it has a plethora of decent talent, what they need is someone at least for this year to step it up and lead...after the season, the Broncos should seriously think about finding that key cog and revamping a few positions.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-13-2013, 12:35 PM
I think it is time for champ to come in Webster is gwtting picked on too much. Qbs are targeting him.

What happened to ground game? 11 attempts?

Webster had good coverage several times when the ball was thrown his way. The problem is he doesn't turn to look for the ball. The ball hit him in the freakin' head on one ocassion. That probably should have been a pick. On another ocassion he could have batted the ball down if he would have turned and looked in the corner of the end zone.

PatriotsGuy
12-13-2013, 12:37 PM
The ball hit him in the freakin' head on one ocassion. That probably should have been a pick.

Actually, the replay showed he turned his head slightly and got his hand on it at the last second.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
12-13-2013, 12:37 PM
I think we lost in all facets of the game. We lost in the trenches. We lost the field position battle. We had more penalties. We had more turnovers. We got out coached.

No one stepped up last night. Someone is going to have to step up for us to make our playoff run.

All that said, this team is still in good position for the playoffs. We can beat any team we face. We just can't play as poorly as we did last night.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-13-2013, 12:42 PM
Actually, the replay showed he turned his head slightly and got his hand on it at the last second.

Did it? I skipped the replay because I had it on my dvr. I was behind real time.

NightTerror218
12-13-2013, 12:47 PM
I think it is time for champ to come in Webster is gwtting picked on too much. Qbs are targeting him.

What happened to ground game? 11 attempts?

Webster had good coverage several times when the ball was thrown his way. The problem is he doesn't turn to look for the ball. The ball hit him in the freakin' head on one ocassion. That probably should have been a pick. On another ocassion he could have batted the ball down if he would have turned and looked in the corner of the end zone.

Webster seems to get picked on everygame. Brady picked on him over and over again. Same with Alex Smith. He seems to be the DB in coverage in TDs thrown.

jhildebrand
12-13-2013, 01:19 PM
For as much heat as the D is getting, Special Teams should be receiving as much or more! They have allowed long returns, fumble on kick and punt returns, miscommunications, and now the neutral zone infraction.

There was a chance last night had Chris Harris intercepted that pass in the end zone. He had the chance. The ball didn't bounce their way.

As for D, I seriously question tinkering with the roster this late the way Del Rio has. It doesn't surprise me though! It is who the guy is! I said it when I didn't want him to be the Interim HC. It isn't jjust the tinkering but the way it has been handled-too much of it has been in the public and almost made personal. It has also been to the detriment of the team. It was clear with Lenon instantly that he is not very good. At some point you have your guys and you have to ride with those guys even if they make a mistake or two.

GEM
12-13-2013, 01:20 PM
Gem-

I am being a bit of a hypocrite, I must confess. I was complaining last night that the tweeks with the D are obviously not working. It definitely hurts not having Big Vic in their to eat up double teams. It also hurts not having Rahim Moore. However, I still don't understand benching Duke. He's easily the best tackling player we have in the secondary. There were a few tackles I saw Adams miss that I believe Nacho would have made. I believe our best D has Nacho and Woody on the field. Lenon is not good in coverage and doesn't have the sideline to sideline speed.

That is what is upsetting to me. When you don't have a better backup than your starter, you don't bench your starter. Especially in a run for the Super Bowl. I know that Woody has deficiencies, but Lenon's deficiencies are worse. I know Nacho has issues, but his issues come nowhere close to Boldin's issues. There is a time and place to fix some things, week 14, against a rival and with worse players is not it.

GEM
12-13-2013, 01:22 PM
For as much heat as the D is getting, Special Teams should be receiving as much or more! They have allowed long returns, fumble on kick and punt returns, miscommunications, and now the neutral zone infraction.

There was a chance last night had Chris Harris intercepted that pass in the end zone. He had the chance. The ball didn't bounce their way.

As for D, I seriously question tinkering with the roster this late the way Del Rio has. It doesn't surprise me though! It is who the guy is! I said it when I didn't want him to be the Interim HC. It isn't jjust the tinkering but the way it has been handled-too much of it has been in the public and almost made personal. It has also been to the detriment of the team. It was clear with Lenon instantly that he is not very good. At some point you have your guys and you have to ride with those guys even if they make a mistake or two.

Holliday....when you are standing at the 5 and a kick is coming in, clear the way and let the mother****** bounce!!! :mad: I was so pissed at that!!!!

LawDog
12-13-2013, 01:32 PM
Holliday....when you are standing at the 5 and a kick is coming in, clear the way and let the mother****** bounce!!! :mad: I was so pissed at that!!!!

And, when standing five deep in the endzone, make the catch the first time rather than having the ball bounce off that thing you claim as a chest.

jhildebrand
12-13-2013, 01:33 PM
Holliday....when you are standing at the 5 and a kick is coming in, clear the way and let the mother****** bounce!!! :mad: I was so pissed at that!!!!

I know. It is too much with the guy right now. I said it out loud last night. "Plant your heel at the 10 and if it goes over your head you get out of the way and let that ball bounce." The guy has quickly become not worth the roster spot at this point IMHO. We could use some help on D but that assumes they could find someone.

Is it me or did Holiday look slow last night when he did have the ball? :confused:

Dreadnought
12-13-2013, 01:36 PM
Woodyard is a very disruptive player. He is not perfect, maybe not great, but with his speed and skillset he is good for making bad things happen to the other guys. We miss that. With our offense we can get by with a mediocre defense, but only if that defense forces a fair portion of bad plays. They did very little of that last night. A timely Shaun Phillips sack and that 3rd and 1 stuff late in the game come to mind, and thats about it. We aren't good enough to stifle an opponents offense entirely

Lancane
12-13-2013, 01:38 PM
I know. I said it out loud last night. "Plant your heel at the 10 and if it goes over your head you get out of the way and let that ball bounce." The guy has quickly become not worth the roster spot at this point IMHO. We could use some help on D but that assumes they could find someone.

Problem is that our second and third options in replacement of Holliday are worse, they can not get the yards. And he could end up being a difference maker in the end for the Broncos, what if all we need is a kick return for a touchdown to win the Super Bowl? The Broncos would feel pretty dumb releasing him.

jhildebrand
12-13-2013, 01:40 PM
Problem is that our second and third options in replacement of Holliday are worse, they can not get the yards. And he could end up being a difference maker in the end for the Broncos, what if all we need is a kick return for a touchdown to win the Super Bowl? The Broncos would feel pretty dumb releasing him.

I am fine with Decker returning punts. He has done it and has a few returns on his resume. Caldwell can handle kick offs. He returned that one against TN that was nullified thanks to a soft, unnecessary block in the back.

jhildebrand
12-13-2013, 01:41 PM
Woodyard is a very disruptive player. He is not perfect, maybe not great, but with his speed and skillset he is good for making bad things happen to the other guys. We miss that. With our offense we can get by with a mediocre defense, but only if that defense makes forces a fair portion of bad plays. They did very little of that last night. A timely Shaun Phillips sack and that 3rd and 1 stuff late in the game come to mind, and thats about it. We aren't good enough to stifle an opponents offense entirely

I agree with all of this. I am beginning to suspect that Del Rio's discontent with Woodyard is that Woody freelances a bit. But the guy has a good sense of the game. You could see that when he picked Alex Smith in the endzone in KC. That play didn't get the credit it deserved nor did it get brought up with any of the Woodyard "benching" talk. :tsk:

Lancane
12-13-2013, 01:46 PM
Woodyard is a very disruptive player. He is not perfect, maybe not great, but with his speed and skillset he is good for making bad things happen to the other guys. We miss that. With our offense we can get by with a mediocre defense, but only if that defense makes forces a fair portion of bad plays. They did very little of that last night. A timely Shaun Phillips sack and that 3rd and 1 stuff late in the game come to mind, and thats about it. We aren't good enough to stifle an opponents offense entirely

What happened to Woodyard will be a HOF middle linebacker crowd?

Don't get me wrong, but I love how the simplicity of such comments have come back to smack people in the face, because the man is no Wilson. Orchestrating a defense is not that easy, nor is leading it and I feel that while he's been adequate that he lacks too much to be as effective at the mike position which is about so much more then leading or about skillset, it's about attitude and mindset as well. They are the quarterbacks of the defense, the maestro conductor and the defense like a symphony, it either works as he see's fit or it fails and he shoulders he blame - which is what I think has been the cause of his demotion.

GEM
12-13-2013, 01:55 PM
While Woodyard is no Al Wilson, he's the best we have and the D is different with him not on the field.

I agree with the poster earlier who said we don't have that leader on D. No Atwater, Dawkins, etc. The guy who just nails that unit together on the field. I don't think he's on the team at this point and something that needs to be and has needed to be addressed for a very long time.

Ravage!!!
12-13-2013, 01:58 PM
Welker has made the same mistake as Holliday on that catch. yes it was a mistake, and the look on his face showed he knew it, but did you guys miss the other returns he had for the evening? He was practically the only bright spot.

GEM
12-13-2013, 02:01 PM
Welker has made the same mistake as Holliday on that catch. yes it was a mistake, and the look on his face showed he knew it, but did you guys miss the other returns he had for the evening? He was practically the only bright spot.

He pinned us on the 10 or lower more than once. :shrugs: I don't want him cut, but his upside is no longer making up for his downside.

jhildebrand
12-13-2013, 02:02 PM
Welker has made the same mistake as Holliday on that catch. yes it was a mistake, and the look on his face showed he knew it, but did you guys miss the other returns he had for the evening? He was practically the only bright spot.

He had some effective returns. He also had some that backed the team up against their own endzone multiple times. They have struggled, and did last night, backed up against their endzone. It was part of what led to the 3 3 and out series.

BroncoNut
12-13-2013, 02:06 PM
The Chargers outplayed Denver in all three phases, all night.

Regarding coverage, any defensive backfield will look bad if the pass rush
isn't there. And it wasn't there most of the night. But we can't blame that on
the pass rush itself, either. When a team can run the ball like the Chargers
did, it hurts the pass rush. So I look beyond Von and Phillips in that regard.




I look at the absence of Vickerson and Wolfe. And Woodyard. :mad: No way
is an over-the-hill Lenon better than Woodyard, and he proved it tonight.
.

Lenon should be shot. what happened to Woodyard? that must have occurred while I was on the phone with my BIL last night

Ravage!!!
12-13-2013, 02:08 PM
He had some effective returns. He also had some that backed the team up against their own endzone multiple times. They have struggled, and did last night, backed up against their endzone. It was part of what led to the 3 3 and out series.

The ONE catch was bad, the other you have to take into consideration of the hight of the kick. Taking the ball at the 9 is better than the 3, and punters are putting the ball near the endzone much much more than in the past with the back spinking kick. In past games we could actually make a first down, no matter where on the field. Last night we coudln't. That didn't have to do with Holliday and where he caught the ball.

jhildebrand
12-13-2013, 02:10 PM
Lenon should be shot. what happened to Woodyard? that must have occurred while I was on the phone with my BIL last night

I have focused on Lenon for two weeks. He was abysmal last night. He showed pressure only to drop back, trip on himself, and have the completion made on him. I don't think he went back in the game after that.

jhildebrand
12-13-2013, 02:12 PM
Here is where Del Rio gets the most blame from me from an X's and O's standpoint:

Since the Philly game, opposing O's have eaten our lunch with short and intermediate passes right over the middle. In fact, Keenan Allen's 20 yard TD score last night was just that. It has gone on week in and week out since then and I haven't seen anything done to shore that up or stop it! :mad:

Lancane
12-13-2013, 02:12 PM
While Woodyard is no Al Wilson, he's the best we have and the D is different with him not on the field.

I agree with the poster earlier who said we don't have that leader on D. No Atwater, Dawkins, etc. The guy who just nails that unit together on the field. I don't think he's on the team at this point and something that needs to be and has needed to be addressed for a very long time.

That was me GEM... :elefant:

I'm like Charlie Brown, invisible give the Holidays! :(

jhildebrand
12-13-2013, 02:15 PM
Oh another issue-when you watch this team going back to the Arrowhead KC game, our D is not set. There is a lot of confusion and movement, not coordinated movement e.g. stunt or line shift, getting guys in the right spot kind of movement.

BroncoNut
12-13-2013, 02:15 PM
Webster seems to get picked on everygame. Brady picked on him over and over again. Same with Alex Smith. He seems to be the DB in coverage in TDs thrown.

yeah, but if you look at some of his behaviours, he kinda brings it on himself.

GEM
12-13-2013, 04:50 PM
That was me GEM... :elefant:

I'm like Charlie Brown, invisible give the Holidays! :(

It was on the page before so I couldn't look back while Quick Replying. :D

Not invisible...I noticed when you were on hiatus over the offseason. ;)

Joel
12-14-2013, 04:15 AM
That was pissing me off. You see the kid getting beat to shit and do nothing to adjust to it. I think Webster will be good in the long run, I think that getting picked on now will build character and skill for the future, but we need to win now with the window we have.
It's pretty sad when me and SR are in the gameday thread BEGGING Del Rio to put Harris outside and Webster (or better yet Jammer) in the slot with safety help. That VERY BASIC adjustment should've been made long ago; ever since Brady took Webster to school a month ago he's been Designated Target for every QB we've faced: What took Fox and Del Rio so long? Too busy benching Woodyard and Ihenacho for Lenon and Bolden? How well did that WORK Thursday? It looked to me like Woodyard and Ihenacho came in for the second half and finished the game.

Phoning in games, skipping the first/second half, all the turnovers that plagued us till two weeks ago: Discipline errors the coaches keep insiting we CAN fix without ACTUALLY FIXING. We had SD pinned inside their 10 on one drive Thursday, forced a three-and-out—then lined up offside on the punt. A few plays later we left ANTONIO GATES UNCOVERED for a big pass, and when we FINALLY stuffed their run for a 5 yd loss a few plays later 2nd and 15 turned into 1st and 5 because we had 12 men on the field.

That was just ONE DRIVE; sure the D EVENTUALLY made a rare stop at midfield, but by that time we'd dug SD out of their hole so WE got pinned deep. It's a comedy of errors out there.

Fox and Del Rio have ONE JOB: Build a D just good ENOUGH to win playoff games with a HoF QB, Pro Bowl receiving corps and record-setting offense. That's supposedly their specialty, yet they couldn't deliver even ONE playoff win last year, and it doesn't look like they will this year. Seriously, SD had the 10th worst rushing average coming into Thursdays game, yet ran for their SEASON HIGH against a D ranked 7th best in rushing average. Even though we came into the game KNOWING they'd try to run. What the :censored: is THAT?!

I know Wolfe's out and Big Vick's gone for the year (we couldn't put him on temporary IR to have him in the playoffs, because we'd already done that with the supposedly far more critical Rahim Moore, who just had follow up surgery and probably won't be back this year ANYWAY.) But, geez, coach, maybe instead of benching your BEST defensive players (i.e. Woodyard and DRC) for scrubs the solution is LESS scrubs starting rather than MORE. If we win the SB my nominee for Coach of the Year is PFM; he's the only coach we've got who's doing his JOB (or doing it well.)

Joel
12-14-2013, 04:21 AM
Want some positivity? I saw this nugget somewhere else this morning. The last four Super Bowl champions have lost in week 15 (Ravens to us last year, Giants when it looked like their season was over, Packers in 2010, and Saints in 09, their first loss of the year). I'm not predicting anything, I'm just saying that it is possible to get it turned around leading into the playoffs. Let's see if we can figure it out.
50% of teams lose in Week 15 every year. As meaningless stats go, this one must be near the top.


I have focused on Lenon for two weeks. He was abysmal last night. He showed pressure only to drop back, trip on himself, and have the completion made on him. I don't think he went back in the game after that.
Woodyard was in often in the first half, too, but in the second half I believe both he and Ihenacho came back in and STAYED in; so much for tinkering. It's easy to believe this is just Del Rio trying to "send a message" like he did benching Ayers in preseason last year, but this isn't preseason and we don't have someone comparable to Wolfe to take Wooydard or Ihenachos spot.

Ihenachos an enforcer with subpar coverage (i.e. a SS) and Adams a centerfielder with subpar tackling (i.e. a FS.) It's pretty obvious they should be starting together, not in tandem with a converted CB (i.e. Bolden) who's never done ANYTHING well except play STs. Our coaching just doesn't inspire any confidence we can win postseason games against coaches who BELONG there.

MOtorboat
12-14-2013, 08:58 AM
So, against Tennessee, Jammer gets TORCHED...Del Rio changes to Webster and you think it's a good idea to scream for Jammer again?

Short memory much?

Ravage!!!
12-14-2013, 11:26 AM
Jammer sucks. He's sucked allllllll year long and am scared to death when I see him on the field. It tells me we are in DIRE needs if he's on the field. Champ being unable to play this year has really hurt. Which makes sense when you have to use depth as starters, because that leads to 3rd stringers in the game a lot. Always bad news.

Joel
12-14-2013, 01:04 PM
Jammer got beat on ONE deep TD against Tennessee; Webster gets beat all day, every day. Jammer's lost a step just as much the guy who got beat on TWO deep TDs in our last playoff game, but can't be taken to school like our rookie is weekly. Webster's talented and may be great in a few years, but we won't have PFM in a few years; Jammers experience if more valuable.

After Ball fumbled around our 30 in the first KC game, Jammer was the one who made the initial hit on the next play that gave Trevathan time to come over and force the fumble, which Jammer recovered. Manning hit DT for a huge pass a few plays later and the drive ended in a TD; that's at least a 10 pt swing in a game we won by 10, without which we'd be a game behind KC, two behind NE and staring at the #5 seed. Show me a comparable play from Webster and I'll believe he should be ahead of Jammer.

Regardless, it makes no sense to leave Harris in the slot on #3 WRs for a month when QBs have been locked in on Webster ever since Brady was on national TV showing the world how easy that is. Neither Webster nor Jammer is better than Harris, who played #2 WRs all last year and started in the same role this year when Champ got hurt. This is simple stuff.

Ravage!!!
12-14-2013, 02:17 PM
The holes in the secondary and the wide open WR with nobody within 10 yards has been a glaring problem since the beginning of the season though.

You can say that about every team. NFL offenses, coordinators, WRs and coaches are paid to find holes in zone coverages. That happens.

Ravage!!!
12-14-2013, 02:18 PM
Regardless, it makes no sense to leave Harris in the slot on #3 WRs for a month when QBs have been locked in on Webster ever since Brady was on national TV showing the world how easy that is. Neither Webster nor Jammer is better than Harris, who played #2 WRs all last year and started in the same role this year when Champ got hurt. This is simple stuff.

Hah.. :lol:

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
12-14-2013, 02:31 PM
I know I'll probably get **** for saying this, but I wouldn't mind seeing more Tony Carter. He gets flagged a lot, but he plays tighter coverage than Webster and Jammer. Plus, this whole defense gets flagged too much, especially on 3rd down. He was very valuable down the stretch last year and I think he could do the same this year.

Dzone
12-14-2013, 02:32 PM
Seemed like every play, rivers took the ball and locked on to the receiver going one on one with webster. He was playing pitch and catch with Allen. We can expect the same thing in every game. Webster needs to grow some cover skills in the meantime

tripp
12-14-2013, 02:36 PM
Oh another issue-when you watch this team going back to the Arrowhead KC game, our D is not set. There is a lot of confusion and movement, not coordinated movement e.g. stunt or line shift, getting guys in the right spot kind of movement.

When you look back at that game, there was an absurd amount of dropped passes by Avery that would have went for huge gains. Remember it was maybe the last or 2nd last drive by KC and no one could catch a ball for the Chiefs? It's not because the coverage was brilliant, their receivers just had butter fingers. Oh how things could've been very different. *Sigh of relief*

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-14-2013, 03:02 PM
Holliday....when you are standing at the 5 and a kick is coming in, clear the way and let the mother****** bounce!!! :mad: I was so pissed at that!!!!

He only seems to let it bounce when it lands around the 15.

Joel
12-14-2013, 04:12 PM
Seemed like every play, rivers took the ball and locked on to the receiver going one on one with webster. He was playing pitch and catch with Allen. We can expect the same thing in every game. Webster needs to grow some cover skills in the meantime
It's been like that ever since DRC got hurt @NE, Webster took his spot and Brady spent the rest of the game lighting him up over and over. Target has long since been acquired in the Broncos secondary; no idea why we kept leaving him out there on #2 WRs for a whole month before moving Harris back where he played all of last year and the first part of this one.


When you look back at that game, there was an absurd amount of dropped passes by Avery that would have went for huge gains. Remember it was maybe the last or 2nd last drive by KC and no one could catch a ball for the Chiefs? It's not because the coverage was brilliant, their receivers just had butter fingers. Oh how things could've been very different. *Sigh of relief*
Double sigh, because it was the same way the first time we played them, when they first decided to have Smith start launching it downfield. Most of those passes were on target but, mercifully for us, the Chiefs kept dropping them, same as in the rematch. It's one of things that makes me leery of facing them a third time in the playoffs: I don't think we can count on KCs receivers dropping every other ball three games straight; Andy Reid won't stand for that.

Ravage!!!
12-14-2013, 04:39 PM
I just wish the coaches would listen to our paper-back learned coach, Joel. The one that OBVIOUSLY knows more about the game than they do, as he'll post right here on this message board and tell them.

ShaneFalco
12-14-2013, 07:34 PM
people told me i was nuts for complaining about Del Rio.

Mike
12-14-2013, 09:03 PM
Seemed like every play, rivers took the ball and locked on to the receiver going one on one with webster. He was playing pitch and catch with Allen. We can expect the same thing in every game. Webster needs to grow some cover skills in the meantime

Mostly Webster did a pretty good job. Rivers was just making really good passes. Which will happen when you get no pressure on the QB. Denver can get away with it against poorer QBs. Unfortunately, outside of KC, most of the QBs that will be in the playoffs will be as accurate as Rivers. So unless Denver can find a way to get pressure on the QB then we should expect to see the other team get their points. That means all the pressure is on Manning to match it.

Joel
12-16-2013, 12:54 AM
I just wish the coaches would listen to our paper-back learned coach, Joel. The one that OBVIOUSLY knows more about the game than they do, as he'll post right here on this message board and tell them.
I love how you keep going back to that yet rushed to bag on Woodyard because the calculator jockeys at PFF gave him low numbers. Never mind that NFL.com said he was a potential Pro Bowler two weeks into the season, or that Football Outsiders said the same last year: One group of stat nerds says something to support Del Rio benching him (never mind that PFF rates guys on performance as a percentage of team downs, even when they spend half those downs on the sidelines,) and suddenly them book-learnin' folks is geniuses.

(the previous comment was directed at a comment directed at a particular individual and intended to slander,disrespect or offend him)

I Eat Staples
12-16-2013, 02:46 AM
Coaches always deserve some blame for a loss, but Del Rio is the least of our problems. He proved last year that he is a great DC by turning us into a top defense despite our lack of talent, but eventually, that lack of talent catches up to you.

Look at our roster on the defensive side of the ball; where exactly is our talent, especially with our injuries? Von is our only true superstar, and he's underachieving. Wolfe is a solid lineman and DRC has been great with the exception of a few games. Outside of those 3 players, where's our defensive talent? I love Woodyard, but he's just average. Trevathan? Good story, but he's an at-best rotational player that's coming back down to earth. Our safeties were average with Moore, they're below average without him. Del Rio overachieved last year with a below average roster, and this year his coaching hasn't been able to mask our lack of talent, especially with injuries. Plus, the past two seasons Von Miller had been the best defensive player in the NFL in my opinion, and this year he hasn't played well enough to hide our deficiencies.

What am I missing about Tony Carter? He was pretty good last season, and I don't remember him being awful early this year either. I know he got called for PI too much, but I'd rather a DB that gets called for PI every once in a while than a DB who doesn't have a chance to get called for PI because he's never within 10 yards of the intended receiver. Unless I'm having selective memory here, I don't remember Tony Carter being half as bad as Webster is.

Broncolingus
12-16-2013, 08:10 AM
Coaches always deserve some blame for a loss, but Del Rio is the least of our problems. He proved last year that he is a great DC by turning us into a top defense despite our lack of talent, but eventually, that lack of talent catches up to you.

Look at our roster on the defensive side of the ball; where exactly is our talent, especially with our injuries? Von is our only true superstar, and he's underachieving. Wolfe is a solid lineman and DRC has been great with the exception of a few games. Outside of those 3 players, where's our defensive talent? I love Woodyard, but he's just average. Trevathan? Good story, but he's an at-best rotational player that's coming back down to earth. Our safeties were average with Moore, they're below average without him. Del Rio overachieved last year with a below average roster, and this year his coaching hasn't been able to mask our lack of talent, especially with injuries. Plus, the past two seasons Von Miller had been the best defensive player in the NFL in my opinion, and this year he hasn't played well enough to hide our deficiencies.

What am I missing about Tony Carter? He was pretty good last season, and I don't remember him being awful early this year either. I know he got called for PI too much, but I'd rather a DB that gets called for PI every once in a while than a DB who doesn't have a chance to get called for PI because he's never within 10 yards of the intended receiver. Unless I'm having selective memory here, I don't remember Tony Carter being half as bad as Webster is.

No problem with your post, I Eat...particularly with the talent part and Von's observations.

...of course, now let the hate (not calm, differing opinions) flow.

GEM
12-16-2013, 02:06 PM
Coaches always deserve some blame for a loss, but Del Rio is the least of our problems. He proved last year that he is a great DC by turning us into a top defense despite our lack of talent, but eventually, that lack of talent catches up to you.

Look at our roster on the defensive side of the ball; where exactly is our talent, especially with our injuries? Von is our only true superstar, and he's underachieving. Wolfe is a solid lineman and DRC has been great with the exception of a few games. Outside of those 3 players, where's our defensive talent? I love Woodyard, but he's just average. Trevathan? Good story, but he's an at-best rotational player that's coming back down to earth. Our safeties were average with Moore, they're below average without him. Del Rio overachieved last year with a below average roster, and this year his coaching hasn't been able to mask our lack of talent, especially with injuries. Plus, the past two seasons Von Miller had been the best defensive player in the NFL in my opinion, and this year he hasn't played well enough to hide our deficiencies.

What am I missing about Tony Carter? He was pretty good last season, and I don't remember him being awful early this year either. I know he got called for PI too much, but I'd rather a DB that gets called for PI every once in a while than a DB who doesn't have a chance to get called for PI because he's never within 10 yards of the intended receiver. Unless I'm having selective memory here, I don't remember Tony Carter being half as bad as Webster is.

That's the problem I'm bringing up with Del Rio. He's not putting his best players on the field. For whatever reason, he's testing out different players and none of the tests have produced better results, they've all been worse results. That is a problem with coaching and right now, it's glaring.

Joel
12-17-2013, 06:43 AM
It's a fair point, too, that Carter getting flagged is no worse than Webster giving up catches, and arguably better. Unless the pass is for <15 yds and Webster (or someone) makes an IMMEDIATE tackle, a PI is better, just like 1st and G at the 1, bad as it is, still beats a TD catch because it still leaves a chance for a heroic goal line stand. 5 yds and an automatic first for Defensive Holding or Illegal Contact is better than a 20 yd catch that also comes with a first down.

The bigger issue is Webster took the outside coverage on #1/2 WRs when DRC got hurt against NE and Brady promptly lit him up, yet he STAYED outside on primary WRs even after DRC was healthy. Even though Harris spent all of last year and the first part of this one playing pretty good outside coverage on #2 WRs. I see the argument Harris is better in the slot than outside, but so is Webster, and Harris>Webster outside, so why did it take a month to realize QBs abused Webster everytime he lined up on the second best WR?

It's about as logical as benching Duke for a converted CB who's never made any decent plays except on STs, or Woodyard for the deeply underwhelming Lenon. I don't have NFL Rewind, but it looked like Woodyard finished the game at MLB and Duke at SS; our D still wasn't great, but better than when they were benched. It's Week 15; don't you know who plays each position best yet? If that was just to "send a message" like when Del Rio thought Ayers was loafing and benched him last preseason, the timing sucked.

artie_dale
12-17-2013, 10:51 AM
I'll the majority of the blame on Del Rio. Yes, with all the injuries, I'm sure it makes his job harder and more complicated. BUT, he's a seasoned defensive coach and there are other defensive coordinators out there who are doing more with even less than what we have.

We have notables at every positions who are still healthy (well, maybe not so much with the DL, but our pass rush is supposed to compliment the DL). Travathon is involved in the majority of plays (I always see him involved in the tackle or right near it). Von is under achieving big time, imo. Woodyard is a mystery right now. Duke lost the starting job for some reason. Our Safeties haven't screwed up too, too bad. Poor Webster is the primary target for all of our opponents.

Did the defensive slump start when DRC got hurt or did it begin when starters started losing their jobs? Because our defense played pretty well the first half of the season but recently, they just don't seem to be playing well together and in my experience, that's a leadership problem (Del Rio or players leadership roles).