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View Full Version : Is our defenese good enough to win a championship



broncofaninfla
12-13-2013, 08:05 AM
Do you feel this defense is good enough to win a championship? If not who or what are the weak links?

Northman
12-13-2013, 08:08 AM
It is if our offense can carry the load. But if we have to rely on them to be the crutch than no.

broncofaninfla
12-13-2013, 08:20 AM
This defense has been more putrid than powerhouse this season. Losing Vickerson and not having sufficient depth behind him has greatly impacted the DL. Sly isn't getting it done thus far but he's young and most D linemen take a while to develop. Also not sure whats wrong with Woodyard but the defense doesn't seem to play as good as a unit since Lenon took over at Mike. Von has been inconisistent and playing without any fire or passion. Teams are torching Webster at will even though at times he has good coverage. I'm hoping guys start getting healthy and the overall performance picks up but the unit that was on display last night was awful and not playing at a level required to win a championship.


Denver lost as a team last night, the offense obviously had issues BUT we all know the offense is much better than their play last night. The defense though..........

Broncolingus
12-13-2013, 08:30 AM
No...fact.

..on any Sunday, yada, yada, yada...

...but winning the Super Bowl takes consistent solid play on both sides of the ball...

...and Denver just doesn't have that on a -consistent- basis on the defense.

MasterShake
12-13-2013, 08:33 AM
I think this team has a great shot to win it all, but as others have said if we are going to rely on them for a crucial stop in a close game or something its not gonna happen. At this point in the season I try to look at things holistically, and what I see Denver as is a team that will bury you with points and make you play catch up. On most Sundays that works just fine, because if the opponent has to kick 2-3 field goals or gets a few 3 and outs they are doomed.

Last night we misfired in all 3 phases of the game and lost to a desperate Chargers team that has their own great QB. We deserved to lose with a performance like that, but in my mind that performance is the exception and not the rule. This defense just needs to be average at this point and the offense needs to be firing on all cylinders. So no, our defense is not good enough to win a Championship but our offense is. If that makes sense. :lol:

claymore
12-13-2013, 08:59 AM
Talent wise yes. Mentally no.

Broncolingus
12-13-2013, 09:09 AM
Talent wise yes. Mentally no.

I'm (really) not disagreeing with you...

I think Denver's defense isn't particularly talent laden in the here and now, and has played like an average (or slightly lesser) defense all season...

...which, after 14 games, is what they are folks.

Generally, teams don't win in the post season with that kind of a defense...

...and if Denver can't even win a playoff game last year with a defense that WAS more talented and DID play a lot better, who are these idiots that think it's going to be something different this year?

Krugan
12-13-2013, 09:23 AM
Im not sure they are or arent.

27 a game is really bad, but not when you score 34, so they are holding teams, normally, to what they need to win, 11-3 says so.

atwater27
12-13-2013, 09:42 AM
Our defense is shit this year. A lot of it has to do with key injuries, but it is what it is. We will make the playoffs, but against playoff level defenses and with our own defense playing like it has all season, we will most definitely not win a championship. I will still hope and cheer, but the inevitable conclusion is without a doubt in my heart and mind.

BigDaddyBronco
12-13-2013, 09:43 AM
Like Krugan said. Yeah, 27 a game is terrible, but it depends on how the offense plays. If we get an early stop and take the lead and get lucky enough to have a TD at the end of the 1st half, get the ball in the 2nd half and score another TD, then it puts us in the mode of pass rush and bend but not break. The problem last night is that San Diego just rolled us in that early drive and got ahead, and in the 2nd quarter we had those 3 and outs.

The real question is if our offense can score 30+ points a game in the playoffs. If we don't, I think we lose before the Super Bowl.

artie_dale
12-13-2013, 09:49 AM
I know I'm not the only one who believes the D has enough talent.

I don't know who said Von Miller was back to form, because he isn't. He had a couple tackles for loss, but during any pass plays, he's just not in there finishing as much as he used to.

SD was picking on Webster ALL NIGHT. The weak DBs are easy to exploit, and teams have exploited the weak links.

We could even argue that Irving's offsides penalty or Duke's pass interference cost us the game... but, SD had put up a lot of points by then so that was just more salt to the already bleeding wound.

The bottom line is, a team that gives up 24+ pts a game, has got a pretty bad defense.

SD and Coach McCoy brought it. Out coached and out played.

Army Bronco
12-13-2013, 10:25 AM
No.

Ravage!!!
12-13-2013, 10:41 AM
is this poll a joke?

artie_dale
12-13-2013, 10:48 AM
I believe they are capable of playing much better. I'm just waiting for Del Rio to put it together.

chazoe60
12-13-2013, 10:50 AM
I can tell you that we had better spend our first three picks in the Draft on Defense.

arapaho2
12-13-2013, 11:49 AM
if our only hope to win is manning and the offense scoreing 30+ points, because our defense cannot stop anybody

then no, it is far from good enough and the coaching of the defense must be looked at

arapaho2
12-13-2013, 11:54 AM
I believe they are capable of playing much better. I'm just waiting for Del Rio to put it together.

we just played our 14th game, and have not held a team below 17 once

what's stopping delrio from putting it together ?

BigDaddyBronco
12-13-2013, 11:59 AM
All our defense has to do is keep the other team in the 20's and our offense has all the pressure to score in the 30's every game.

The better question is can our defense win a game. I think that is 100% no.

Broncolingus
12-13-2013, 12:01 PM
we just played our 14th game, and have not held a team below 17 once

what's stopping delrio from putting it together ?


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/26565179.jpg

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-13-2013, 12:38 PM
Before Big Vic got hurt I would have said I believe we have the talent to have a top 10 D, especially if Rahim comes back. Now I'm not so sure. When he was in the offense had to choose who to double, him or Knighton. Now teams just double Knighton. It also seems to be easier for teams to make plays on the corner in the running game without Nacho and Woody in there. I know I don't get to watch game tape, but on tv it sure looks worst with Adams at SS and Lenon in the middle. Adams isn't as physical, and Lenon doesn't have sideline to sideline speed.

Enough with the freakin' tweaking and put our playmakers back in the game.

wayninja
12-13-2013, 01:05 PM
I'm with Mastershake. Our defense isn't our strength. Our offense has the ability and talent to make our defense almost irrelevant.

Counting on that all the way through the playoffs is scary, but not impossible.

OrangeHoof
12-13-2013, 01:23 PM
The defense gave up 27 points and that's normally been enough to win this season. They weren't the problem last night other than failing to get stops on third down.

Our design is that Manning & Co. score 30 or more points and the defense just has to make enough stops to let Manning do his thing. Is our defense good enough to win with an ordinary offense? No. But it is good enough to win with this one as long as the offense is rolling the way it normally does.

Lancane
12-13-2013, 01:23 PM
It is if our offense can carry the load. But if we have to rely on them to be the crutch than no.

Completely agree North, the defense has far too many holes from coaching to player personnel to be relied on when the game matters most. That doesn't mean they can not get to that point, but unless Del Rio is going to pull his head from Fox's John Brown Hind Parts and actually make the changes in order to be reliable, then the offense will have to carry the load to the end, and I think we need to be wary of that - because the offense can be beaten.

Ravage!!!
12-13-2013, 02:01 PM
we just played our 14th game, and have not held a team below 17 once

what's stopping delrio from putting it together ?

Personnel. We are down to deep depth, and injuries (and poor playing) is just taking more players out of the lineup.

spikerman
12-13-2013, 06:52 PM
Regarding the original question:

Three words - Not. Even. Close.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-13-2013, 09:17 PM
Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 9h

Got word Rahim Moore will have follow-up surgery on his leg. Not sure what it means to his availability in January.

ShaneFalco
12-13-2013, 09:19 PM
whatever happened to the defense that "carried" tim tebow to the playoffs.

Sorry same d. just without dawkins. They are fine.

MOtorboat
12-13-2013, 10:18 PM
whatever happened to the defense that "carried" tim tebow to the playoffs.

Sorry same d. just without dawkins. They are fine.

There was ONE player on that 2011 defense that started last night. One.

As to the question. Yes.

ShaneFalco
12-13-2013, 10:54 PM
started? how does that matter? even 2nd string gets to play during games. Von, Champ, Vickerson, Ayers, Harris, bruton, woodyard, trevathan, all were on team. Im sure i could name some more if i wasnt so faded.

Point is they will be fine. And it bugs me that the same people who claim they "carried tim" to the playoffs, now dont think they are good enough to "help" Peyton.

We just have the injury bug right now. Champ coming back at full strength would make a world of difference.

atwater27
12-13-2013, 10:55 PM
What a weird ass injury season for our team. Compartment syndrome and unexplained seizures. WTF?

MOtorboat
12-13-2013, 11:34 PM
started? how does that matter? even 2nd string gets to play during games. Von, Champ, Vickerson, Ayers, Harris, bruton, woodyard, trevathan, all were on team. Im sure i could name some more if i wasnt so faded.

Point is they will be fine. And it bugs me that the same people who claim they "carried tim" to the playoffs, now dont think they are good enough to "help" Peyton.

We just have the injury bug right now. Champ coming back at full strength would make a world of difference.

Kind of hard for those guys to carry the team when they don't even play.

spikerman
12-13-2013, 11:55 PM
Apparently eight of you (as of this post) are watching different games than I am.

Shazam!
12-14-2013, 12:33 AM
Champ coming back at full strength would make a world of difference.

I'm doubting we will ever see that Champ again.

Joel
12-14-2013, 03:34 AM
if our only hope to win is manning and the offense scoreing 30+ points, because our defense cannot stop anybody

then no, it is far from good enough and the coaching of the defense must be looked at
That's about the size of it. NO team with an offense setting records should be sitting around saying, "we need more from the offense." You're getting MORE THAN ANY OFFENSE IN HISTORY. If that's not enough, the OFFENSE isn't the problem. The offense didn't line up offside on a 4th and 4 punt, leave a HoF TE UNCOVERED and send 12 men on the field all on ONE DRIVE Thursday night. The offense didn't pin us inside our 10 after SD began a drive inside THEIR 5. The offense didn't pin us inside our 10 to start ANY of our drives, but, boy, we sure had a lot start from there.

The offense didn't watch Webster get repeatedly torched every week since Brady exposed him a month ago, then FINALLY get around to moving Harris outside and Webster inside with safety help ONLY AFTER we went down 14 pts in the second half to a 6-7 team. That's about as basic as a defensive adjustment gets: Why did it take a MONTH for our defensive gurus to see it? Because they were busy benching OTHER starters for a Cardinals castoff and a converted CB who's never done ANYTHING except on special teams?

So how well did that work? So well those "starters" were replaced by Woodyard and Ihenacho (i.e. the FORMER starters) to finish the game. It's a poor workman who blames his tools.

We could go on and on like that; heaven knows I have. The "mental errors" costing us turnovers every week, the lack of intensity and focus that convinces us to phone in games against lesser opponents and/or skip the first or second half of games. This is all coaching stuff, and coaches saying, "we can fix that," every week but NOT fixing it are just saying they're not doing their very doable job. I know we CAN fix the discipline issues; what I don't know is that we WILL. Much like I know we CAN win a SB; what we CAN do is irreleavant: Only what we ACTUALLY do matters.

MOtorboat
12-14-2013, 08:18 AM
That's about the size of it. NO team with an offense setting records should be sitting around saying, "we need more from the offense." You're getting MORE THAN OFFENSE IN HISTORY. If that's not enough, the OFFENSE isn't the problem. The offense didn't line up offside on a 4th and 4 punt, leave a HoF TE UNCOVERED and send 12 men on the field all on ONE DRIVE Thursday night. The offense didn't pin us inside our 10 after SD began a drive inside THEIR 5. The offense didn't pin us inside our 10 to start ANY of our drives, but, boy, we sure had a lot start from there.

The offense didn't watch Webster get repeatedly torched every week since Brady exposed him a month ago, then FINALLY get around to moving Harris outside and Webster inside with safety help ONLY AFTER we went down 14 pts in the second half to a 6-7 team. That's about as basic as a defensive adjustment gets: Why did it take a MONTH for our defensive gurus to see it? Because they were busy benching OTHER starters for a Cardinals castoff and a converted CB who's never done ANYTHING except on special teams?

So how well did that work? So well those "starters" were replaced by Woodyard and Ihenacho (i.e. the FORMER starters) to finish the game. It's a poor workman who blames his tools.

We could go on and on like that; heaven knows I have. The "mental errors" costing us turnovers every week, the lack of intensity and focus that convinces us to phone in games against lesser opponents and/or skip the first or second half of games. This is all coaching stuff, and coaches saying, "we can fix that," every week but NOT fixing it are just saying they're not doing their very doable job. I know we CAN fix the discipline issues; what I don't know is that we WILL. Much like I know we CAN win a SB; what we CAN do is irreleavant: Only what we ACTUALLY do matters.

Well, the Ravens and Buccaneers paid offensive gurus to win defensive-led Super Bowls and the Colts paid a defensive guru to win with offense.

:whoknows:

MOtorboat
12-14-2013, 08:20 AM
Apparently eight of you (as of this post) are watching different games than I am.

If the Saints and Colts could win with the crap they had, Denver can with this defense. It's all down to each game anyway, nothing that happened in the games we've watched has any real bearing on the final product in the playoffs. You think the Ravens thought they could win a Super Bowl last year after getting housed at home by Denver?

CrazyHorse
12-14-2013, 08:48 AM
In short answer, yes it is.

spikerman
12-14-2013, 10:13 AM
If the Saints and Colts could win with the crap they had, Denver can with this defense. It's all down to each game anyway, nothing that happened in the games we've watched has any real bearing on the final product in the playoffs. You think the Ravens thought they could win a Super Bowl last year after getting housed at home by Denver?

True, but except for a completely blown defensive play they really weren't good enough to win. I know.. I'm picking nits, but I don't trust this defense at all. Every time Denver kicks off now I hope they just hold the opposing team to a FG. I haven't felt this way about a defense since the Bob Slowick days.

MOtorboat
12-14-2013, 10:17 AM
True, but except for a completely blown defensive play they really weren't good enough to win. I know.. I'm picking nits, but I don't trust this defense at all. Every time Denver kicks off now I hope they just hold the opposing team to a FG. I haven't felt this way about a defense since the Bob Slowick days.

Wrong game, I'm talking about the regular season game last year.

OrangeHoof
12-14-2013, 11:12 AM
In any case, their last two games are at Houston and at Oakland so we can anticipate a 13-3 season and a division title which, for most of us, would have been satisfactory goals for this season. The #1 seed, however, is in jeopardy if New England does not lose the rest of the month.

Eyes on the prize, folks. The Broncos weren't as prepared for a short week as SD was. So, live with it and move on. If we get stuck with the #2 seed, we'll just have to deal with a possible return to Foxboro.

spikerman
12-14-2013, 12:12 PM
Wrong game, I'm talking about the regular season game last year.

No, I knew what you meant. My point was that if it hadn't been for one boneheaded play that defense wasn't good enough to win a championship. Even if Denver somehow makes it to the SB and they have to play either the 49ers or Seahawks you have to figure that the offense is going to have problems. At that point it would be up to the defense to keep the Broncos in it. Game. Set. Match.

spikerman
12-14-2013, 12:14 PM
The Broncos weren't as prepared for a short week as SD was.
I agree and I find this very concerning.

OrangeHoof
12-14-2013, 01:23 PM
I agree and I find this very concerning.

Not I. There won't be another short week the rest of the season. This is largely a veteran team and somewhat banged up. They had just survived a very challenging stretch of the season and I honestly think they couldn't recharge their batteries fast enough for a Thursday game whereas the Chargers knew it was a do-or-die game for their season.

Six days is enough for Manning to gameplan and be ready.

I just want to get through the next few weeks and have Welker healthy and DR-C back to mid-season form. Those two guys will be key to winning in the post-season this time.

Ravage!!!
12-14-2013, 01:37 PM
I agree and I find this very concerning.

why? There are upsets every week of the year. The Chargers aren't a "weak" team, and we had a TERRIBLE night. It happens.

Joel
12-14-2013, 02:06 PM
Well, the Ravens and Buccaneers paid offensive gurus to win defensive-led Super Bowls and the Colts paid a defensive guru to win with offense.

:whoknows:
Right, and the Bucs got their offense and the Colts got a good enough defense from Dungy: What, exactly, have WE gotten from OUR defensive gurus? The point wasn't that a team with a great offensive shouldn't hire a defensive guru to cover its other bases, but that the ones we've hired aren't doing that well enough for a record-setting offense to finish first in its division even against a weak schedule, let alone win a Super Bowl.

MOtorboat
12-14-2013, 02:07 PM
Right, and the Bucs got their offense and the Colts got a good enough defense from Dungy: What, exactly, have WE gotten from OUR defensive gurus? The point wasn't that a team with a great offensive shouldn't hire a defensive guru to cover its other bases, but that the ones we've hired aren't doing that well enough for a record-setting offense to finish first in its division even against a weak schedule, let alone win a Super Bowl.

Why do you even watch? Serious question.

Ravage!!!
12-14-2013, 02:13 PM
Right, and the Bucs got their offense and the Colts got a good enough defense from Dungy: What, exactly, have WE gotten from OUR defensive gurus? The point wasn't that a team with a great offensive shouldn't hire a defensive guru to cover its other bases, but that the ones we've hired aren't doing that well enough for a record-setting offense to finish first in its division even against a weak schedule, let alone win a Super Bowl.

When haven't we finished first in our division with Fox?

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
12-14-2013, 02:47 PM
How many times this season has this defense had all of its starters on the field at the same time? Zero.

How many starters actually started last game? I count 5 (Phillips, Knighton, Miller, DRC, and Trevathan)

Injuries have plagued us.

Broncolingus
12-14-2013, 02:55 PM
No disrespect to anyone, but I don't know if I can buy Dungy being a 'bad' or average coach...

...he had an awful lot of success in his career.

To each his/her own opinion, but I think the guy was a pretty darn good coach...

JMO though...

Joel
12-14-2013, 04:23 PM
Why do you even watch? Serious question.
They're my team, however much they frustrate and disappoint me, and I keep hoping our undeniably talented players will get their stuff together and play as well as they can for a whole game, maybe even consecutive games, so we win another championship instead of sitting around reminiscing about how unbeatable we were 15 years ago.


When haven't we finished first in our division with Fox?
I'm reliably informed our division was by far the NFLs worst two years ago. Last year we only played 5 winning teams, only beat 2, and one of THEM beat us in the playoffs. This year everyone keeps saying KC's record isn't for real because they have such a weak schedule, without bothering to note it's pretty much the same schedule we have apart from swapping the Pats for the Bills.

Unless someone wants to concede the 2011 AFCW wasn't completely worthless, that means Fox made us the best of the worst three years running. Though some would say our record the last two years was mainly due to a first ballot HoFer under center and a couple Pro Bowl WRs, not the elite D our defensive HC and DC built.

Poet
12-14-2013, 04:29 PM
Joel, it feels like your mission is to make everyone go "we can't win a Sb this year, let's just watch the games and be miserable while doing so." I'm just being honest.

Ravage!!!
12-14-2013, 04:36 PM
They're my team, however much they frustrate and disappoint me, and I keep hoping our undeniably talented players will get their stuff together and play as well as they can for a whole game, maybe even consecutive games, so we win another championship instead of sitting around reminiscing about how unbeatable we were 15 years ago.
Considering I don't really think you k now what you are watching, I can see why you would be disappointed. I mean, it's not like you were pining for Tim Tebow or anything.


Unless someone wants to concede the 2011 AFCW wasn't completely worthless, that means Fox made us the best of the worst three years running. Though some would say our record the last two years was mainly due to a first ballot HoFer under center and a couple Pro Bowl WRs, not the elite D our defensive HC and DC built.

Make up your mind. I thought you said we haven't been winning our division. You seem to just bounce around, never knowing where you are headed... except with the "all is doomed" persuasion . I don't think anyone said we had an elite defense, nor do I believe that you ahve to have an elite defense to win Super Bowls. SOME would say that our record is because of our elite QB?? NO SHIT. If you are NOT saying that, you are an idiot. If you don't see that nearly every GOOD team in the NFL is good because of their QB...FIRST.. youa re an idiot. Start with the QB, go from there to figure out who is the better teams in the NFL. That's the way it is.

Ravage!!!
12-14-2013, 04:37 PM
Joel, it feels like your mission is to make everyone go "we can't win a Sb this year, let's just watch the games and be miserable while doing so." I'm just being honest.
Joel doesn't care about watchin football.

spikerman
12-14-2013, 05:16 PM
why? There are upsets every week of the year. The Chargers aren't a "weak" team, and we had a TERRIBLE night. It happens.

I'm with you that sometimes teams get beat. What concerns me is that with everything on the line Denver did not appear to approach the game with the same enthusiasm as the Chargers and looked flat in all three phases of the game. I'm not as concerned with the loss as I am about the apparent lack of urgency from the team.

OrangeHoof
12-14-2013, 05:31 PM
I'm with you that sometimes teams get beat. What concerns me is that with everything on the line Denver did not appear to approach the game with the same enthusiasm as the Chargers and looked flat in all three phases of the game. I'm not as concerned with the loss as I am about the apparent lack of urgency from the team.

That's because everything was *not* on the line for Denver. They had a two-game lead in the division (because they swept the Chiefs). They had a one-game lead for HFA (that they've lost) and have clinched a playoff spot. It was San Diego that had everything on the line and they played like it. I think that if it was a Sunday afternoon game, the outcome would have been different but the Broncos just didn't have the motivation on a short week to get up for this game with all their injuries and what they had played through their last four weeks.

It should be noted that Denver is now 3-4-1 in their last eight halves of football. This is a tired, beat-up team that probably was looking forward more to the 10 days off than they were the Thursday night game.

SM19
12-14-2013, 07:39 PM
Yes, I think they're good enough for the Denver offense to drag them to a championship. Some defensive improvement would certainly help the team's chances, though.

Joel
12-15-2013, 10:33 PM
Joel, it feels like your mission is to make everyone go "we can't win a Sb this year, let's just watch the games and be miserable while doing so." I'm just being honest.
If anything, it's just the opposite: To prevent people setting themselves up for a fall by taking the SB for granted, or considering us leading contenders, when we're very much a darkhorse. Honestly, looking at how every team has played so far everyone but Seattle looks like a darkhorse unless the NFL cracks down on their 'roid-raging skull-cracking secondary, but after our run D went the way of our pass D against a VERY poor rushing offense, well, I just don't think the offense can do it alone even when in perfect synch (which it often isn't.)


Considering I don't really think you k now what you are watching, I can see why you would be disappointed. I mean, it's not like you were pining for Tim Tebow or anything.
Are you absolutely certain that "the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement" or is that just a boilerplate disclaimer to permit slandering, disrespecting and/or offending anyone and everyone with impunity? "The preceding bullet was not directed at any particular bank teller, security guard or police officer and was not intended for use in robbing and/or assaulting anyone—now gimme all your money or I'll fire another!" :rolleyes:

I know you just want to save Padmes life, Anakin, but choking her to death is kinda counterproductive. Have you ever taken a time out from your epic all-consuming quest to consider whether there's anything to save her from but YOU...? :tongue:


Make up your mind. I thought you said we haven't been winning our division. You seem to just bounce around, never knowing where you are headed... except with the "all is doomed" persuasion . I don't think anyone said we had an elite defense, nor do I believe that you ahve to have an elite defense to win Super Bowls. SOME would say that our record is because of our elite QB?? NO SHIT. If you are NOT saying that, you are an idiot. If you don't see that nearly every GOOD team in the NFL is good because of their QB...FIRST.. youa re an idiot. Start with the QB, go from there to figure out who is the better teams in the NFL. That's the way it is.
Yeah, I see the problem: I said, "division," when I meant, "conference." We've had the divisions best record three years running, and the conferences best last year, but we can thank the Dolphins and Gronks torn ACL and MCL if we do both again this year. Assuming we do our job on the road against the pitiful Texans and Raiders; we should beat both easily, but then we should've beaten the 6-7 Bolts at home instead of going down 14 and ending up with people trying to blame a first ballot HoF QB for our defense and STs failings.

Bronco9798
12-15-2013, 10:43 PM
We have as good as a chance as any other AFC team. Take a look at each AFC team that will probably be in the playoffs. If we secure the NO#1 seed and play at home, we can beat anybody in the AFC. There are no dominant defenses in the AFC. Absolutely none. I don't why anybody would think we couldn't. Losing Vickerson was a huge blow, getting Wolf back will be good. Keep Champ where he is, on the sideline, and we'll be fine. You need to beat two teams in your own backyard compared to playing as a wild card team and having to win three on the road. If we lose that No#1 seed, then we're probably pretty ******. GO Broncos!!!!!

Simple Jaded
12-15-2013, 10:52 PM
Considering I don't really think you k now what you are watching, I can see why you would be disappointed. I mean, it's not like you were pining for Tim Tebow or anything.



Make up your mind. I thought you said we haven't been winning our division. You seem to just bounce around, never knowing where you are headed... except with the "all is doomed" persuasion . I don't think anyone said we had an elite defense, nor do I believe that you ahve to have an elite defense to win Super Bowls. SOME would say that our record is because of our elite QB?? NO SHIT. If you are NOT saying that, you are an idiot. If you don't see that nearly every GOOD team in the NFL is good because of their QB...FIRST.. youa re an idiot. Start with the QB, go from there to figure out who is the better teams in the NFL. That's the way it is.

8-8 on the strength of defense and he's the most positive poster around, 11-3 on the strength of the offense and he's absolutely ******* miserable. Whatta difference a QB can make.

Joel
12-15-2013, 11:09 PM
8-8 on the strength of defense and he's the most positive poster around, 11-3 on the strength of the offense and he's absolutely ******* miserable. Whatta difference a QB can make.
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/566823-Vickerson-out-six-weeks?p=2080609#post2080609

BroncoJoe
12-15-2013, 11:14 PM
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/566823-Vickerson-out-six-weeks?p=2080609#post2080609

Stupid is as stupid does

Joel
12-15-2013, 11:34 PM
Stupid is as stupid does
If you mean it's stupid to use something that happened two years ago to rebutt every criticism of what's happening now, no argument.

Simple Jaded
12-16-2013, 12:45 AM
If you mean it's stupid to use something that happened two years ago to rebutt every criticism of what's happening now, no argument.

When the criticism and optimism are coming from the same source it's relevant. Please don't tell me you don't think your post history two years ago is a relevant rebuttal to your criticism now?

Joel
12-16-2013, 01:41 AM
When the criticism and optimism are coming from the same source it's relevant. Please don't tell me you don't think your post history two years ago is a relevant rebuttal to your criticism now?
Relevant in terms of rationale, yes, but not motive. The latter's like saying I wanted Plummer to fail because he replaced Griese. Ultimately, my sole motive is wanting a Broncos Super Bowl.

Simple Jaded
12-16-2013, 01:51 AM
Relevant in terms of rationale, yes, but not motive. The latter's like saying I wanted Plummer to fail because he replaced Griese. Ultimately, my sole motive is wanting a Broncos Super Bowl.

Goes straight to your motive for being a butthurt critic of a far, far faaaaaaar better team. I think you should go back and read some of your posts, seriously, you were a completely different person.

ShaneFalco
12-16-2013, 02:07 AM
why does everyone try to gang up on joel? i see it in almost every thread lol.

Poet
12-16-2013, 02:09 AM
why does everyone try to gang up on joel? i see it in almost every thread lol.

Shut up.

ShaneFalco
12-16-2013, 02:10 AM
Shut up.
:marchmellow:

Poet
12-16-2013, 02:11 AM
:marchmellow:

Silence! I KEEL you!

SM19
12-16-2013, 02:21 AM
We've had the divisions best record three years running, and the conferences best last year, but we can thank the Dolphins and Gronks torn ACL and MCL if we do both again this year.

That's just silly. It's equal and opposite to saying the rest of the conference can thank Ryan Clady's metatarsals that we haven't run away with the thing.

Joel
12-16-2013, 02:37 AM
Goes straight to your motive for being a butthurt critic of a far, far faaaaaaar better team. I think you should go back and read some of your posts, seriously, you were a completely different person.
It might, if this were 2011, but we're a different team. Offensively, far better, yes, but that defense so great it singlehandedly carried us to the playoffs despite a worthless offense has evidently regressed dramatically, because now it struggles even aided by a record-setting offense, and even after its personnel has improved at pretty much every position (except maybe safety.)


That's just silly. It's equal and opposite to saying the rest of the conference can thank Ryan Clady's metatarsals that we haven't run away with the thing.
Except Clady wasn't one of only three legit stars on our offense, let alone team. His counterpart's Vollmer, not Gronk (who's more comparable to Orange Julius) and the Pats don't HAVE any counterparts to DT or Welker since they let us snag the latter; I wouldn't even put Edelman on part with Decker. Talib probably counts as a less healthy equivalent of DRC, but where's their Harris, Miller, Woodyard, Knighton, Phillips, Wolfe or Ayers? We could call Wilfork their Vickerson, but their Knighton would be Kelly: Gone for the year, just like Mayo.

Brady, Gronk, Talib and (when he can hold onto the ball) Ridley are their only legitimately scary guys; now they're down to three, one of whom's useless without another one (it's not like Brady's the rushing threat Cam Newton is.) So basically they have a great QB throwing to one okay WR and a couple RBs, plus one good CB. That's not even close to the state we're in (fortunately.)

Poet
12-16-2013, 02:45 AM
Clady is a top three LT. He's a star player, Joel. I'm not sure how you think Ridley is scary to anyone but his own coach.

I Eat Staples
12-16-2013, 02:51 AM
Playing the way they have been so far, no. We aren't going to win many games that we don't score at least 30 in.

Then again, last year I would have said that the Ravens' offense wasn't good enough to win a super bowl. While I'm not banking on our defense having a magical turnaround just in time for the playoffs, it's never really too late, especially if Von starts looking like his old self.

Joel
12-16-2013, 05:48 AM
Clady is a top three LT. He's a star player, Joel. I'm not sure how you think Ridley is scary to anyone but his own coach.
Right, but he's not the ONLY offensive star we have beside Manning. That is, take him away and the illegality of Manning passing to himself doesn't instantly turn our offense to crap. We still have our Gronk in Orange Julius, the Pro Bowl WR NE wouldn't pay in Wes Welker and ANOTHER Pro Bowler in DT, though Decker alone's better than Amendola, and probably better than Edelman (who's about the best WR NE has left.)

We still have a former first round CB in DRC and he's far healthier than Talib, plus we have Harris, a former DRoY at Sam and a former Pro Bowl 3-4 OLB at 4-3 RDE. The Pats D has Chandler Jones and 2-3 above average LBs, some Trevathans or MAYBE Woodyards; that's about it.

Gronk was all NE had left on offense, and close to all they had left period; take him away in addition to Wilfork, Kelly, Mayo, Vollmer, Dennard and now Solder (not to mention the cops taking away Aaron Hernandez) and it's pretty hopeless. I think they lost a starting DE, too, but it's frankly hard to keep track. Brady without BOTH his starting tackles AND all his best WRs and TEs: If it were anyone else, I'd feel sorry for him. No, losing our All Pro LT—good as he is—isn't the same as the Pats losing a third of their starters, and all the good ones but Brady.

MasterShake
12-16-2013, 10:13 AM
It might, if this were 2011, but we're a different team. Offensively, far better, yes, but that defense so great it singlehandedly carried us to the playoffs despite a worthless offense has evidently regressed dramatically, because now it struggles even aided by a record-setting offense, and even after its personnel has improved at pretty much every position (except maybe safety.)


Do you think any of that had to do with the type of offense we were running at that point? That grind out type of offense would often put the other teams to sleep and then Tebow would run a 95 play drive out of his ass for a miracle 4th quarter win (usually off of Matt Prater's leg). The division also sucked big time in 2011, with Rivers having a bad year, KC having an awful stable of QB's, and the Raiders being themselves. The game just seemed slower and teams did not respect us as much that season, especially compared to now.

I still have a hard time not noticing how ramped up offenses are when they play Denver vs every other game I see them in. The opposition knows that they need to either get an onslaught of points or control the clock AND score TD's (damn you Chargers!) so it really opens up their offense and they play with reckless abandon. Couple that with losing some key pass rushers like Wolfe and a banged up secondary (I still contend Champ when healthy helps more than hurts this team) and its hard to believe we don't give up 30+ points a game.

Hopefully we can perfect our offense heading into the postseason and close out strong as the defense gets healthy. For some reason I am more worried about our Special Teams play as of late than I am our defense at times.

The good news is we have 2 games left in nearly ideal and warm conditions (hell its even 60 degrees in Denver today so who knows) and we can only improve in my opinion. The playoffs are all that matters at this point, and this 16 game preseason can't be over soon enough.

Joel
12-16-2013, 11:46 AM
Do you think any of that had to do with the type of offense we were running at that point? That grind out type of offense would often put the other teams to sleep and then Tebow would run a 95 play drive out of his ass for a miracle 4th quarter win (usually off of Matt Prater's leg). The division also sucked big time in 2011, with Rivers having a bad year, KC having an awful stable of QB's, and the Raiders being themselves. The game just seemed slower and teams did not respect us as much that season, especially compared to now.
So opponents could've destroyed that great defense as easily as this one, they just didn't bother? That would explain the Lions, Packers and Patriots games; Hell, even the Bills game, but if that's the only thing that stopped teams blasting our D was their inexplicable refusal to do so our D couldn't have been that great. It makes no sense to say a Broncos team with much better DTs, LBs and CBs than that great D suddenly has NO D; maybe there was more to it than an elite D that disappeared at the end of that season.

I don't buy the "any division the 2011 Broncos can win MUST suck" argument; we faced four playoff teams and a Jets team coming off a second straight AFCCG, and everyone but Oakland played SEVEN games against a playoff opponent. That's nearly HALF their schedule, yet the WORST AFCW team finished just one game below .500. Heck, that's as good as or better than 11 of the teams we played last year when we patted ourselves on the back for a 13-3 record (and 2-3 against winning teams!:rolleyes:)


I still have a hard time not noticing how ramped up offenses are when they play Denver vs every other game I see them in. The opposition knows that they need to either get an onslaught of points or control the clock AND score TD's (damn you Chargers!) so it really opens up their offense and they play with reckless abandon. Couple that with losing some key pass rushers like Wolfe and a banged up secondary (I still contend Champ when healthy helps more than hurts this team) and its hard to believe we don't give up 30+ points a game.

Hopefully we can perfect our offense heading into the postseason and close out strong as the defense gets healthy. For some reason I am more worried about our Special Teams play as of late than I am our defense at times.

The good news is we have 2 games left in nearly ideal and warm conditions (hell its even 60 degrees in Denver today so who knows) and we can only improve in my opinion. The playoffs are all that matters at this point, and this 16 game preseason can't be over soon enough.
Our special teams won't win any prizes; when we kick a TD return's always a strong possibility, and when THEY kick we're lucky to hold onto it, much less get a return past our 10. Yet that's only a half dozen plays or so a game, while our D plays roughly half the game, and I'm not sure it's going to get significantly better, that many (or any) of our injured starters will be back this year.

Vickerson won't; season-ending IR.
Moore's designated to return from IR, but they sliced one of his leg muscle sheaths lengthwise, and he just had follow up surgery on it last week; hard to believe he'll be 100% in a month.
Champ's been in and out of the lineup, and our only hope of getting him at 100% probably vanished when he couldn't sit till the bye; even if he comes back healthy it's hard to believe he'll be in midseason, let alone playoff, shape since it's kind of hard for a CB to practice much with a serious foot injury.

Then there's Wolfe; since no one knows what the heck's wrong with him we can only guess when (or if) he'll be back this year or ever. We might get Webster back by the playoffs—so playoff QBs can torch him like everyone else has for the past month. And (at least) his thumb'll probably be in a cast; he may knock down a few balls, but don't hold your breath waiting for a pick.

I'm hopeful but not optimistic we get Champ and Wolfe back in time for the playoffs and in playoff form, but otherwise we're probably stuck with what we've got and praying for no more injuries.

Anything's possible once the postseason starts, and every playoff team but KC and (possibly) the #6 seed has Pro Bowlers out for the year, too, but if we end up facing Seattle.... :eek:

MasterShake
12-16-2013, 12:15 PM
Anything's possible once the postseason starts, and every playoff team but KC and (possibly) the #6 seed has Pro Bowlers out for the year, too, but if we end up facing Seattle.... :eek:

My buddy who lives in Seattle says Denver is the only team that scares him because while they have a good secondary, the slot weapons could eat them up. He is still pretty cocky about his team otherwise! :lol:

Northman
12-16-2013, 12:29 PM
I know it was preseason but didnt the Hawks destroy us? I didnt catch that game so i dont know how long the starters played but i think they even have the advantage with depth and health at this point.

NightTrainLayne
12-16-2013, 12:31 PM
We have as good as a chance as any other AFC team. Take a look at each AFC team that will probably be in the playoffs. If we secure the NO#1 seed and play at home, we can beat anybody in the AFC. There are no dominant defenses in the AFC. Absolutely none. I don't why anybody would think we couldn't. Losing Vickerson was a huge blow, getting Wolf back will be good. Keep Champ where he is, on the sideline, and we'll be fine. You need to beat two teams in your own backyard compared to playing as a wild card team and having to win three on the road. If we lose that No#1 seed, then we're probably pretty ******. GO Broncos!!!!!

Niner!!!!!!!

Joel
12-16-2013, 12:56 PM
My buddy who lives in Seattle says Denver is the only team that scares him because while they have a good secondary, the slot weapons could eat them up. He is still pretty cocky about his team otherwise! :lol:
I still think they're in for a rude awakening when they get to the playoffs and find out the refs won't let the Legion of Dope mug their way to a championship, that they might be willing to pretend it's 1970 in the regular season, but this is the new and improved flag football arena league and you can't win a championship like that. That's assuming half their starters aren't on the bench for 'roids; it sounds like Browners career is over, and one of their other guys is still riding a 4 game suspension, IIRC. They may not be a SB concern for ANY AFC team.

Broncolingus
12-16-2013, 01:11 PM
...the Legion of Dope...


http://media.tumblr.com/b5368a15214ce2cedc9cf32d4156208e/tumblr_inline_mndp5kNKKz1qz4rgp.jpg

I Eat Staples
12-16-2013, 03:42 PM
I still think they're in for a rude awakening when they get to the playoffs and find out the refs won't let the Legion of Dope mug their way to a championship, that they might be willing to pretend it's 1970 in the regular season, but this is the new and improved flag football arena league and you can't win a championship like that. That's assuming half their starters aren't on the bench for 'roids; it sounds like Browners career is over, and one of their other guys is still riding a 4 game suspension, IIRC. They may not be a SB concern for ANY AFC team.

If Seattle loses in the playoffs, it'll probably be because of their offensive line. Considering they haven't lost a home game since 2011, though, I wouldn't bet against them.

Simple Jaded
12-16-2013, 11:55 PM
What I've learned; the Broncos haven't lost enough star players to injury.

There's still time, ya gotta think positive.

chazoe60
12-17-2013, 12:02 AM
It's sorta like asking if a nascar has good enough brakes to win a race.