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View Full Version : Thoughts about this next game against the Chargers....



artie_dale
12-11-2013, 10:58 AM
I have a feeling, Bronco fans, that since that New England rise up from the grave to beat us, I have a feeling that the philosophy in the conservative Denver Staff has changed.

I will admit that the defense's poor play these last two games (KC & Tenn) could very well be the reason we've kept the peddle to the metal (or forced to), but does anyone else think that Fox, Del Rio, & Elway, have decided to keep the pressure on teams by running up the score? Not until the very end of that Titans game did I notice the Denver offense let off the gas. I personally would LOVE this if it is the case.

Obviously, a 24 point lead on New England wasn't enough of a lead to secure that win. I'm hoping that Fox & co. is like "F-it! Let's keep our foot on their throat and run it up!"

Thoughts?

BroncoWave
12-11-2013, 11:00 AM
I think the Titans game was more of an effort to give a big eff you to people who say Peyton can't play in the cold. I think Fox and Gase were kinda throwing him a bone by letting him go out and run up some huge numbers. I don't necessarily think we will now ring up 60 passing attempts every week. With Moreno and now Ball playing well, it wouldn't shock me to see us balance the offense back out a bit more.

artie_dale
12-11-2013, 11:13 AM
I think the Titans game was more of an effort to give a big eff you to people who say Peyton can't play in the cold. I think Fox and Gase were kinda throwing him a bone by letting him go out and run up some huge numbers. I don't necessarily think we will now ring up 60 passing attempts every week. With Moreno and now Ball playing well, it wouldn't shock me to see us balance the offense back out a bit more.

That may be the case. But even with a "balanced" approach, the team can still keep trying to score, even after a 21 point lead.

Nobody lost any respect for the Patriots when they did this a few years ago (which got them to the Super Bowl). They broke records and actually have GAINED admiration (by me and anyone else I talk to about it). My point is, conservative play has let teams back in games and have even led to losses, where aggressive play leads to more points and makes it difficult for teams to come back. Sure, mistakes can happen during aggressive play... but those same mistakes happen during conservative play, and from what I've seen, those mistakes hurt more during conservative play.

Northman
12-11-2013, 11:15 AM
I think it does have to do with the defense (and now ST's) giving up scores and allowing teams back in the game. Im sure some has to do with what Wave mentioned but the problems with putting games away has been going on all year. Against the Titans i had no doubt it had more to do with not giving the ball back. I dont mind running up the score but i would much rather them continue to just not turn the ball over. Had we not done that we probably still would of won the NE game.

BroncoWave
12-11-2013, 11:16 AM
I definitely agree that we need to stay aggressive when we get the lead. This team isn't build to run the ball into the line 3 times and play zone defense with 3 pass rushers. I definitely like keeping our foot on their throat when we are in the lead, and hope we continue to do so.

Joel
12-11-2013, 11:17 AM
My thought is Peyton Manning's our offenisve coordinator and he's called pretty much the same plays as always, but gotten more out of them since we've been running more effectively the past few weeks. Also, whatever the cause, he was pretty awful @NE, just 1 pass >50% completions for a mere 150 yds, 2 TDs and a pick; small wonder NE clawed their way back in when our offense only managed two scores in five quarters. For those scoring at home, Manning averaged about 4 completions and 30 yds per quarter against NE; without Moreno they'd have buried us.

Manning likes running to establish the pass when he can, but that requires 1) a reliable running game to set opponents up and 2) a reliable passing game to knock them down. Take away either and you take away the deep kill shots we say @KC: If we can't run DBs can stay back and the front seven can blitz Manning, without either worrying about runs that aren't producing anyway; if we can't pass it doesn't matter how well we create passing opportunities.

I'll give you this much though: If Manning's playcalls are a problem, it doesn't make sense to praise him as a field general all week then yell at the coaches on game day. Personally, I don't think they ARE a problem when our offensive line does its job; Manning looked badly off @NE (especially since our receivers got to several slightly off target passes only to drop them anyway) but no one's perfect every game. MOST of the time, if everyone else does their job Manning will do his and we'll score a ton of points. The offense isn't doing anything different except executing better.

BroncoWave
12-11-2013, 11:26 AM
My biggest hope for this game is that we don't go down by double digits in the first half. We have done that FIVE times this season. It's a miracle that we're 4-1 in those games. You just can't keep doing that and expecting to pull games out.

Ravage!!!
12-11-2013, 11:37 AM
The NE game and the KC game (first match) we were just DETERMINED to run the ball wayyyyyy too much. We are a passing team that is built to pass the ball, and was/is a team that scores BIG with the pass. The run is good to have, obviously. But we ran the ball just WAYYY too much against NE and that cost us the game. Good to see that we are now back on track and throwing the ball.

TXBRONC
12-11-2013, 11:46 AM
I agree with you Artie that they stay aggressive. I don't look at as the Broncos running up the score it's about playing their game not someone elses. I don't think Denver's game against the Titans wasn't about throwing a bone to Manning it was first foremost about playing their game and not the Titans. Nevertheless, by the of game Denver had 29 rushing attempts with two rushing touchdowns and that's Manning's kneel downs. It was a 2:1 ratio pass to run. (59 passing attempts and 29 rushing attempts.) I don't see Denver trying to dial it back just for sake of dialing it back.

Joel
12-11-2013, 12:01 PM
That may be the case. But even with a "balanced" approach, the team can still keep trying to score, even after a 21 point lead.

Nobody lost any respect for the Patriots when they did this a few years ago (which got them to the Super Bowl). They broke records and actually have GAINED admiration (by me and anyone else I talk to about it). My point is, conservative play has let teams back in games and have even led to losses, where aggressive play leads to more points and makes it difficult for teams to come back. Sure, mistakes can happen during aggressive play... but those same mistakes happen during conservative play, and from what I've seen, those mistakes hurt more during conservative play.
For what it's worth, I and everyone I talked to about it lost a LOT of respect for the Patriots doing that, and going for it on 4th and 13 with a lead in the SB may have cost them the game. There's being aggressive and there's being insulting. Here's the difference:


Quarter
Time
Down
ToGo
Location
Detail
WAS
NWE


4
11:02
4
1
WAS 7
Tom Brady (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm) left guard for 2 yards (tackle by LaRon Landry (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LandLa99.htm) and Pierson Prioleau (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PrioPi20.htm))
0
38


4
7:16
4
2
WAS 37
Matt Cassel (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00.htm) pass complete short left to Jabar Gaffney (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GaffJa00.htm) for 21 yards (tackle by Leigh Torrence (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TorrLe20.htm))
0
45




Quarter
Time
Down
ToGo
Location
Detail
NWE
BUF


3
1:09
4
1
BUF 10
Tom Brady (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm) pass complete short right to Randy Moss (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MossRa00.htm) for 3 yards (tackle by Terrence McGee (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McGeTe99.htm))
42
10


My personal favorite remains this one on the opening drive of SB XLIIs second half:



Quarter
Time
Down
ToGo
Location
Detail
NYG
NWE



3rd Quarter


3
6:49
4
13
NYG 31
Tom Brady (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm) pass incomplete deep left intended for Jabar Gaffney (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GaffJa00.htm)
3
7



Remember the Giants victory margin that day? 3 pts, which just happens to be what a 48 yd FG by one of the most clutch kickers in history would've gotten. Oh, well.... ;)

I think we went for 4th downs against Tennessee because we trusted our offense more than our defense, not to run up the score or because we thought Tennessee couldn't stop/score on us (they did put up 21 pts of offense, after all.) That game stayed fairly close till fairly late (even a record-setting FG left us down a point at the half) so we needed to sustain those drives, and did.

artie_dale
12-11-2013, 12:24 PM
For what it's worth, I and everyone I talked to about it lost a LOT of respect for the Patriots doing that, and going for it on 4th and 13 with a lead in the SB may have cost them the game. There's being aggressive and there's being insulting. Here's the difference:


Quarter
Time
Down
ToGo
Location
Detail
WAS
NWE


4
11:02
4
1
WAS 7
Tom Brady (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm) left guard for 2 yards (tackle by LaRon Landry (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LandLa99.htm) and Pierson Prioleau (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PrioPi20.htm))
0
38


4
7:16
4
2
WAS 37
Matt Cassel (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00.htm) pass complete short left to Jabar Gaffney (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GaffJa00.htm) for 21 yards (tackle by Leigh Torrence (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TorrLe20.htm))
0
45




Quarter
Time
Down
ToGo
Location
Detail
NWE
BUF


3
1:09
4
1
BUF 10
Tom Brady (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm) pass complete short right to Randy Moss (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MossRa00.htm) for 3 yards (tackle by Terrence McGee (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McGeTe99.htm))
42
10


My personal favorite remains this one on the opening drive of SB XLIIs second half:



Quarter
Time
Down
ToGo
Location
Detail
NYG
NWE



3rd Quarter


3
6:49
4
13
NYG 31
Tom Brady (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm) pass incomplete deep left intended for Jabar Gaffney (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GaffJa00.htm)
3
7



Remember the Giants victory margin that day? 3 pts, which just happens to be what a 48 yd FG by one of the most clutch kickers in history would've gotten. Oh, well.... ;)

I think we went for 4th downs against Tennessee because we trusted our offense more than our defense, not to run up the score or because we thought Tennessee couldn't stop/score on us (they did put up 21 pts of offense, after all.) That game stayed fairly close till fairly late (even a record-setting FG left us down a point at the half) so we needed to sustain those drives, and did.

I personally have less respect for players, coaches, and fans, who get upset when a team runs up the score against them. They all get paid to do a job, even on defense. They aren't paid to like or respect each other. They are all entertainers. I get more upset with my team when they let the other team score. Not vice versa. I remember a lot of Bronco fans getting mad at LT and the Chargers when LT broke a record against us when they already had a lead. I say "boo hoo" to anyone who gets upset when teams an players play the game.

artie_dale
12-11-2013, 12:26 PM
I also think it's a sign of disrespect for the team with the lead to "ease up" on their opponent. Couldn't that be considered arrogant?

Ziggy
12-11-2013, 12:35 PM
I keep hearing about how bad the defense played last week against Tennessee. They gave up 21 points, which is what Tennesse averages. That was without Wolfe and Champ. This D is fine.

OrangeHoof
12-11-2013, 01:08 PM
There seems to be a lot of misreading the tea leaves on this thread.

1) vs KC - we tried to protect Manning's sore ankle by establishing the run as much as possible.
2) at NE - the icy winds made passes flutter and the running game was having great success, milking the clock and keeping the ball out of Brady's hands.
3) at KC - we fell behind and needed to pass to catch up but we also needed to keep running the ball to prevent KC from putting more DBs in the game since Manning had found his victim.
4) vs TEN - Titans were vulnerable in pass coverage but tough to run on.

I think in each they had a successful game plan that worked well with the NE comeback being one of those snowballing things.

All you have to do is remember the Cowboys game to know the Broncos shouldn't sit on the lead.

TXBRONC
12-11-2013, 03:17 PM
There seems to be a lot of misreading the tea leaves on this thread.

1) vs KC - we tried to protect Manning's sore ankle by establishing the run as much as possible.
2) at NE - the icy winds made passes flutter and the running game was having great success, milking the clock and keeping the ball out of Brady's hands.
3) at KC - we fell behind and needed to pass to catch up but we also needed to keep running the ball to prevent KC from putting more DBs in the game since Manning had found his victim.
4) vs TEN - Titans were vulnerable in pass coverage but tough to run on.

I think in each they had a successful game plan that worked well with the NE comeback being one of those snowballing things.

All you have to do is remember the Cowboys game to know the Broncos shouldn't sit on the lead.

Denver ran the ball 29 times and very effectively. Moreno and Ball gashed the for more than five yards per carry.

Joel
12-11-2013, 06:47 PM
I also think it's a sign of disrespect for the team with the lead to "ease up" on their opponent. Couldn't that be considered arrogant?
Congrats, guys: You're looking at football like Europeans look at soccer, where it's considered DEEPLY insulting to put the second string in once a team has an insurmountable late lead.

In football, however, refusing a 24 or even 54 yd FG to go for it on 4th down with a 38-0 or 45-0 lead is a great bit "screw you!" to the other team. It says, "ya'll suck SO hard your D CAN'T stop us, and your offense CAN'T score even if your D DOES miraculously manage a stop far too late to do ANY good." If you genuinely respect a team enough you think they just might be able to come back from 42-10 with 16:00 left, you kick that 27 yd FG to increase your lead to a full 5 TDs rather than risk losing the ball—unless you think so little of them you consider it no risk at all.

That doesn't mean we must or should ease up when the game's still in doubt, I'm just saying Belicheat wasn't merely keeping his foot on opponents necks: He was stomping them until the gun went off and MADE him stop. It bit his butt in the SB, too; hubris ate nemesis (and the crowd went wild! ;))

artie_dale
12-11-2013, 07:15 PM
Congrats, guys: You're looking at football like Europeans look at soccer, where it's considered DEEPLY insulting to put the second string in once a team has an insurmountable late lead.

In football, however, refusing a 24 or even 54 yd FG to go for it on 4th down with a 38-0 or 45-0 lead is a great bit "screw you!" to the other team. It says, "ya'll suck SO hard your D CAN'T stop us, and your offense CAN'T score even if your D DOES miraculously manage a stop far too late to do ANY good." If you genuinely respect a team enough you think they just might be able to come back from 42-10 with 16:00 left, you kick that 27 yd FG to increase your lead to a full 5 TDs rather than risk losing the ball—unless you think so little of them you consider it no risk at all.

That doesn't mean we must or should ease up when the game's still in doubt, I'm just saying Belicheat wasn't merely keeping his foot on opponents necks: He was stomping them until the gun went off and MADE him stop. It bit his butt in the SB, too; hubris ate nemesis (and the crowd went wild! ;))

NFL Football is also a mental game. A mental game that usually turns out in your favor if you can get to your opponents so much that makes THEM make the mistakes or give up early. It may also last until the next time you play them. Sure, it may piss players, coaches, and fans off, but look at it if you were playing a rival. You beat that ass and you keep on beating it. It's not the winning teams responsibility to "take it easy" on the losing team.

As far as that Super Bowl where the Patriots were undefeated up to that game, Tom Brady was not himself during that game. I remember watching him and thinking to myself that he was stoned out of his mind on pain meds (his eyes said it all). Good for the Giants and I know injuries are a part of the game, but that wasn't the same offense that got them there.

Slick
12-11-2013, 07:41 PM
I think Denver is going to spank the Chargers tomorow night. Miller and Phillips will meet in the backfield on several occasions.

Joel
12-12-2013, 02:07 AM
NFL Football is also a mental game. A mental game that usually turns out in your favor if you can get to your opponents so much that makes THEM make the mistakes or give up early. It may also last until the next time you play them. Sure, it may piss players, coaches, and fans off, but look at it if you were playing a rival. You beat that ass and you keep on beating it. It's not the winning teams responsibility to "take it easy" on the losing team.

As far as that Super Bowl where the Patriots were undefeated up to that game, Tom Brady was not himself during that game. I remember watching him and thinking to myself that he was stoned out of his mind on pain meds (his eyes said it all). Good for the Giants and I know injuries are a part of the game, but that wasn't the same offense that got them there.
From what I've seen, the main thing running up the score on a team already thoroughly beaten does is REALLY piss them off so they come out fired up next time. That's how you go from beating a team 61-7 one year to having them beat you 48-17 next year because they still haven't forgotten. As far as the SB, if Brady was totally out of it, maybe going for it on 4th and 13 instead of kicking the 45 yd FG was kind of a dumb move. Then again, I don't think Brady was high as a kite in SB XLV and it didn't change a thing. Maybe the Giants just flat BEAT the Pats TWICE.