View Full Version : Is Now the Time to Play CHAMP at Safety?
WARHORSE
11-29-2013, 05:08 PM
It has to be crossing the coaching staffs minds, especially since hes been plagued with the foot injury and we are decimated at the safety position.
I can see playing him at corner if DRC cant go, but if he can, why put CHAMP in the open field where much more strain will be put on the foot? Making adjustments at greater speeds is going to put stress on his injured foot.
I just feel that Champs instincts roaming center field, not to mention the effect on the opposing QB will be to our great benefit. He still has plenty of speed and matched with his great instincts he will be effective.
When we move into the redzone, where the deep speed of WRs is taken away, Champ can again move to CB and put another body in there at safety. In the confined space of the redzone he wont have to open up as much so when he cuts it should be less problematic to conserving his health.
I feel there are alot of benefits to this including: Can Champ be effective in the playoffs at safety if we are healthy across the board sans Moore? How about at safety at all? Champ is slowing somewhat and can we find a role to justify his pay next year?
We may have to play him at corner this week.....I hope the heck not though......so it may be moot. But I hope we can look at him a little there.
Thoughts?
No. You don't just move a player to a position he's never played 11 games in to the season. There's about 2819 threads on this right now too.
No. You don't just move a player to a position he's never played 11 games in to the season. There's about 2819 threads on this right now too.
Now is the time to move D-Money to safety.
Now is the time to move D-Money to safety.
I would shy away from the first running back that even looks like he may, or may not run in my general direction.
I would shy away from the first running back that even looks like he may, or may not run in my general direction.
You'd totally be an upgrade for Jacksonville.
Slick
11-29-2013, 06:43 PM
Haven't seen you around in a while War. Hope you're doing well.
You'd totally be an upgrade for Jacksonville.
When I was playing hockey my favorite thing to do was light people up. Now I'm old and frail.
When I was playing hockey my favorite thing to do was light people up. Now I'm old and frail.
You're not the SeeingRed I fell in love with.
Davii
11-30-2013, 02:04 AM
When I was playing hockey my favorite thing to do was light people up. Now I'm old and frail.
I'm not sure I like your tone.
I'm not sure I like your tone.
You're older than SR. Therefore, you must be frailer than SR.
Davii
11-30-2013, 02:17 AM
You're older than SR. Therefore, you must be frailer than SR.
Interesting hypothesis, please restate it my good friend.
Interesting hypothesis, please restate it my good friend.
Science!
Timmy!
11-30-2013, 05:28 AM
Make it stop!
No. You don't just move a player to a position he's never played 11 games in to the season. There's about 2819 threads on this right now too.
That. It's a good idea in principle, but I doubt even Champ can seamlessly transition overnight, or even in a month and a half. MAYBE it'd be worth a shot the last couple games (@Houston and @Oakland) since we could probably beat both handily with ME playing safety, and Champ could get that pre-playoff tuneup, but with the division lead on the line? No way.
WARHORSE
11-30-2013, 09:46 AM
That. It's a good idea in principle, but I doubt even Champ can seamlessly transition overnight, or even in a month and a half. MAYBE it'd be worth a shot the last couple games (@Houston and @Oakland) since we could probably beat both handily with ME playing safety, and Champ could get that pre-playoff tuneup, but with the division lead on the line? No way.
Maybe.
I more along the lines of 'If Belichick can get WRs to play corner", then I think we can get a corner to play safety.
Champ already is a very thorough study on all kinds of defensive schemes. Lord knows hes played in a ton of em. And Im pretty sure he knows where everyone should be at all itmes.
Safety is more about read and react than anything. Hes great at that.
Smooth transition.....er.....as long as hes not surrendering touchdowns then its good.
Id like to see him at safety between the 20s some this year.
MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 10:04 AM
Ugh.
No.
BroncoWave
11-30-2013, 10:08 AM
I want us to put him at safety because it would be funny to see all of the people who have been indignantly calling that idea stupid for months be wrong about it.
You're older than SR. Therefore, you must be frailer than SR.
He's a battle hardened Marine. He doesn't age.
MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 10:26 AM
I want us to put him at safety because it would be funny to see all of the people who have been indignantly calling that idea stupid for months be wrong about it.
I just want them to find a safety instead of having to move our best player at a premium position to a different position. Not to mention that the cornerback position gets MORE important every year as the rules change.
BroncoWave
11-30-2013, 10:27 AM
I just want them to find a safety instead of having to move our best player at a premium position to a different position. Not to mention that the cornerback position gets MORE important every year as the rules change.
Is Champ still our best corner? I'm not entirely sure that's still the case.
Maybe.
I more along the lines of 'If Belichick can get WRs to play corner", then I think we can get a corner to play safety.
Champ already is a very thorough study on all kinds of defensive schemes. Lord knows hes played in a ton of em. And Im pretty sure he knows where everyone should be at all itmes.
Safety is more about read and react than anything. Hes great at that.
Smooth transition.....er.....as long as hes not surrendering touchdowns then its good.
Id like to see him at safety between the 20s some this year.
Even Belichick doesn't try that stuff suddenly, midseason; he works them out and trains them during the offseason. It's a great idea for next year, but it's hard to believe Champ can do it literally overnight, and a game that probably decides the division is a bad time to roll the dice. Until/unless KC finds a better answer than two weeks ago, we should keep doing what won by two scores (three, not counting a "so what?" Prevent TD.) If they present a better, compensating, gameplan, we should have an answer, but moving Champ midseason probably isn't it.
MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 11:05 AM
Is Champ still our best corner? I'm not entirely sure that's still the case.
If DRC is on the shelf, yes, undoubtedly.
Overall, I still believe he is. Others would dispute that.
MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 11:06 AM
Even Belichick doesn't try that stuff suddenly, midseason; he works them out and trains them during the offseason. It's a great idea for next year, but it's hard to believe Champ can do it literally overnight, and a game that probably decides the division is a bad time to roll the dice. Until/unless KC finds a better answer than two weeks ago, we should keep doing what won by two scores (three, not counting a "so what?" Prevent TD.) If they present a better, compensating, gameplan, we should have an answer, but moving Champ midseason probably isn't it.
Julian Edelman and Troy Brown say "hi."
But, we agree on this. Although I wouldn't ever move Champ. But, obviously, that's not me.
Ravage!!!
11-30-2013, 11:06 AM
If DRC is on the shelf, yes, undoubtedly.
Overall, I still believe he is. Others would dispute that.
Speaaking of, what is the status of DRC?
Speaaking of, what is the status of DRC?
Questionable
Ravage!!!
11-30-2013, 11:08 AM
Julian Edelman and Troy Brown say "hi."
But, we agree on this. Although I wouldn't ever move Champ. But, obviously, that's not me.
That's a great example for both points, actually. Belicheck moved them ...BUT... we both know that they weren't good at their "new" position.
MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 11:10 AM
That's a great example for both points, actually. Belicheck moved them ...BUT... we both know that they weren't good at their "new" position.
They were moved from receiver to cornerback because of injuries, I believe.
Both weren't very good on defense.
BroncoWave
11-30-2013, 11:11 AM
That's a great example for both points, actually. Belicheck moved them ...BUT... we both know that they weren't good at their "new" position.
Yeah, moving from WR to CB obviously isn't the same a moving from CB to safety.
Ravage!!!
11-30-2013, 11:11 AM
They were moved from receiver to cornerback because of injuries, I believe.
Both weren't very good on defense.
Exactly.
Ravage!!!
11-30-2013, 11:15 AM
Yeah, moving from WR to CB obviously isn't the same a moving from CB to safety.
So. I've said that after, defending the move from corner to safety for years, that it's probably time Champ start making the move. But NOT at this point of the season. There are a LOT of things that are different from safety and corner. Reads are completely different, angles are completely different, responsibilities are COMPLETELY different. How you stay back and how you watch the game. How the QB reads YOU and what your movements and "hiding" of coverages can do to the game are HUGe..... and they are ALllll things Champ has NEVER had experience doing. I do NOT want the center field of our coverage being manned by a guy that "could fill in" but not having experience at safety.
BroncoWave
11-30-2013, 11:20 AM
So. I've said that after, defending the move from corner to safety for years, that it's probably time Champ start making the move. But NOT at this point of the season. There are a LOT of things that are different from safety and corner. Reads are completely different, angles are completely different, responsibilities are COMPLETELY different. How you stay back and how you watch the game. How the QB reads YOU and what your movements and "hiding" of coverages can do to the game are HUGe..... and they are ALllll things Champ has NEVER had experience doing. I do NOT want the center field of our coverage being manned by a guy that "could fill in" but not having experience at safety.
I'm not saying CB to S is a seamless transition. Obviously they are different positions. Just saying it's probably a much easier learning curve than completely switching from offense to defense.
Honestly, I don't even pretend to know what we will do with Champ. I don't really know what the coaches have been teaching him this year or what their plans are for him. For all we know, they have been teaching him to ply safety all season, or they could have absolutely no plans to move him there.
I just find it funny that people on either side of the argument just absolutely KNOW that he will never play safety, or they just KNOW that moving him to safety is the obvious choice. I think this is a very interesting discussion, but I don't think either side really knows what will happen.
Julian Edelman and Troy Brown say "hi."
But, we agree on this. Although I wouldn't ever move Champ. But, obviously, that's not me.
Did they move midseason? I honestly don't know, because (contrary to popular belief) I don't follow the Pats closely unless we or Houston are playing them. Maybe I should pay more attention; the road to the SB tends to go through Foxborough; unless we win out it probably will this year.
I've been pushing for Champ at safety for a while, mainly because I have a great deal of faith in our deep CB corps and very little in our safeties. Not midseason with DRC Questionable though, and definitely not in a game that probably decides the division, possibly homefield in the playoffs. IF we try that it should be at the end @Houston and @Oakland, whom we should beat easily.
Ravage!!!
11-30-2013, 11:44 AM
I just find it funny that people on either side of the argument just absolutely KNOW that he will never play safety, or they just KNOW that moving him to safety is the obvious choice. I think this is a very interesting discussion, but I don't think either side really knows what will happen.
I've never seen anyone say they "know" anything, and if you are taking their exaggerated statement to be stating something of fact, then that's on you.
I do think, pretty confidently, that had Champ been working out at safety that it would have been reported. Things like that don't go hidden with as much coverage there is on the NFL and their teams. I think its VERY easy to say that we "know" Champ hasn't been working out at safety.
I think that's pretty easy to state since Champ hasn't been healthy enough to do a lot of physical work anyway. I think the coaching staff wants to get Champ as healthy as possible so that he can get back into the lineup. So, I don't think they take a chance on injuring his foot by working him out a position he doesn't know, when they can rest him and his foot to where he can come in and play a position he DOES know.
Ravage!!!
11-30-2013, 11:45 AM
Did they move midseason?
Yes
WARHORSE
11-30-2013, 07:15 PM
Did they move midseason? I honestly don't know, because (contrary to popular belief) I don't follow the Pats closely unless we or Houston are playing them. Maybe I should pay more attention; the road to the SB tends to go through Foxborough; unless we win out it probably will this year.
I've been pushing for Champ at safety for a while, mainly because I have a great deal of faith in our deep CB corps and very little in our safeties. Not midseason with DRC Questionable though, and definitely not in a game that probably decides the division, possibly homefield in the playoffs. IF we try that it should be at the end @Houston and @Oakland, whom we should beat easily.
Yeah I didnt mean to imply that we should start Champ at safety this week.
Im saying that since we have been doing fine without Champ all season, and we are crushed healthwise at the safety position, why not play Champ in there sometimes between the 20s? Who would I rather have.....Michael Huff or Champ?
Honestly, I dont even have a problem saying Champ all the way. He knows the defense better. He has much greater instincts. Hes smarter. He WAY more of a sure tackler.
For me, I have no problem sticking CHamp in ther from time to time.
I would rather have Moore and Nacho as our starting safeties than anyone else currently on the roster. Also, I know both of them can play safety at a high level and that they're both VERY young with HUGE upside. What I don't is whether or not an old (by football standards) Champ can play safety at all. I wish some of you "move Champ to safety" advocates would consider these things objectively before making your case.
CrazyHorse
11-30-2013, 07:19 PM
I think we should try to have our best DBs on the field. If this makes it happen then I think it's a good move.
I think we should try to have our best DBs on the field. If this makes it happen then I think it's a good move. Champ (as a corner), DRC, Harris (as a nickel CB), Nacho, and Adams (because Moore is out) are the best DBs on the team playing their natural positions (disregarding FS vs SS)
ShaneFalco
11-30-2013, 07:23 PM
I thought Davi was moving to QB for my rams. What ever happened to Daviimania?
DenBronx
11-30-2013, 09:00 PM
Seems like this question gets asked every week now.
See Brandon Spano thread for details, then the thread before that and before that one.
I thought Davi was moving to QB for my rams. What ever happened to Daviimania?
Davii is Clemens. One in the same.
Yeah I didnt mean to imply that we should start Champ at safety this week.
Im saying that since we have been doing fine without Champ all season, and we are crushed healthwise at the safety position, why not play Champ in there sometimes between the 20s? Who would I rather have.....Michael Huff or Champ?
Honestly, I dont even have a problem saying Champ all the way. He knows the defense better. He has much greater instincts. Hes smarter. He WAY more of a sure tackler.
For me, I have no problem sticking CHamp in ther from time to time.
Maybe I took "now" a bit too literally then. I've liked the idea for years, for all the reasons you named and more, but I want some training and practice time there first. Maybe spend some time on it over the next few weeks and try it a little @Houston and @Oakland, games that shouldn't be close enough (even on the road) that a half dozen snaps with Champ playing safety for the first time will make the difference; if it goes well, extend it a bit against Oakland and maybe it's an option for the playoffs.
It's much more likely (and safer) we work him out at safety over the offseason and debut him Opening Day after months of transition work and cross training, with a good chance he's ready to play safety in a live game the first time asked. Right now, since he's never done it and is just back from serious injury, the next 2-3 games are too big to risk. Even if we beat KC tomorrow, we'd still just be one loss from NE getting playoff homefield; I won't say PFM sucks on the road in the cold, but it's not exactly playing to ANYONES strengths: I don't want to go back to NE this year.
Davii
11-30-2013, 10:42 PM
I thought Davi was moving to QB for my rams. What ever happened to Daviimania?
I had a bad practice. I tried explaining to Coach Fisher that I'm a "gamer" but he didn't care. Please buy me a billboard.
I had a bad practice. I tried explaining to Coach Fisher that I'm a "gamer" but he didn't care. Please buy me a billboard.
Bwahahahah!!!!!!
WARHORSE
12-03-2013, 12:31 AM
After watching Champ struggle at corner......maybe now we start playing him at safety a little?
Hes not done yet.
..................?
Davii
12-03-2013, 01:48 AM
After watching Champ struggle at corner......maybe now we start playing him at safety a little?
Hes not done yet.
..................?
Or we keep working him back into the game plan slowly but surely. The guy has played all of about a half the entire season, I think rusty play is to be expected.
He looked bad the first two drives but played pretty well after that. Give him a couple games, I'd be willing to bet he's playing much better come playoff time.
Ravage!!!
12-03-2013, 02:48 AM
safety... at this point of the season? Would you REALLY trust him to make the proper reads and angles and playing like a SAFETY from this far into the season?
FanInAZ
12-03-2013, 07:17 AM
Let me see if I understand the reasoning that some posters here have for this move. Champ has slowed with age and is therefore no longer fast enough to play CB. It’s by many believed that Ss don’t need to be as fast, therefore Champ might excel as a S because of his experience.
I haven’t watched that many Steelers games this season, but I’ve seen enough to know that Troy Polamalu (7 time PBer, 4 time 1st team All-Pro & future HoFer) has disproven this theory every time I’ve watched him this season. The only plays I’ve seen him make are when he’s up at the line playing run support & the RB runs right into his arms. In the passing game, the good news is that I haven’t seen him draw 1 PI penalty this year. The bad news is that I haven’t seen him have an opportunity to draw a PI because he’s never within 5 yards of a receiver at the time of a reception.
So if an over the hill Polamalu is struggling at a position that he’s played his entire career, what makes you think that an over the hill Champ can excel at this same position that he’s never played?
After watching Champ struggle at corner......maybe now we start playing him at safety a little? Hes not done yet. ..................?
No!
Ravage!!!
12-03-2013, 10:58 AM
So if an over the hill Polamalu is struggling at a position that he’s played his entire career, what makes you think that an over the hill Champ can excel at this same position that he’s never played?
Because you don't need to be as fast at safety as you do on the island at corner. We've seen corners move to safety after injury and at the end of their careers before. But other than just a couple, NONE have made a good transition. Personally, I can understand the appeal of him moving....AFTER this season. But 13 weeks into the NFL is NOT the time to try and learn a new one.
MOtorboat
12-03-2013, 11:05 AM
So instead of a gimpy corner, we can have a gimpy safety?
weazel
12-03-2013, 11:13 AM
Safety? I think it's time to put Champ out to pasture. He's done and he costs WAY too much
claymore
12-03-2013, 11:15 AM
Because you don't need to be as fast at safety as you do on the island at corner. We've seen corners move to safety after injury and at the end of their careers before. But other than just a couple, NONE have made a good transition. Personally, I can understand the appeal of him moving....AFTER this season. But 13 weeks into the NFL is NOT the time to try and learn a new one.
I would slide him over in practice to see if its a fit for both parties, or at least if its something both parties would want to attempt. He doesnt have to make the full transition, just see if its something he is willing, and capable of doing.
We need to know what we have so we can plan for FA and the draft. I wouldnt want to bring him in at TC and find out it was a terrible idea.
Timmy!
12-03-2013, 11:17 AM
Champ was playing off a lot in the 1st half, can't blame him, I'm sure he needed to know what his foot would feel like in an actual game and didn't want to get smoked deep, not to mention he basically hasnt played all year. In the second half he played well, Smith rarely threw in his direction because he had good coverage. Most importantly, he made it through the game. If we can get him, DRC and Harris on the field together it will be huge.
Ravage!!!
12-03-2013, 01:16 PM
I would slide him over in practice to see if its a fit for both parties, or at least if its something both parties would want to attempt. He doesnt have to make the full transition, just see if its something he is willing, and capable of doing.
We need to know what we have so we can plan for FA and the draft. I wouldnt want to bring him in at TC and find out it was a terrible idea.
I don't think we do. I think we let Champ go.
weazel
12-03-2013, 01:24 PM
I don't think we do. I think we let Champ go.
I agree
claymore
12-03-2013, 01:31 PM
I don't think we do. I think we let Champ go.
I think it depends on what Champ wants to do. If he wants to keep playing CB in a reduced role, and a reduced rate then I am positive Denver will keep him. He has gone on record stating he wants to move to safety around this age. So that is a possibility to.
He is a HOF player, and if he wants to continue Denver will make every effort to make that possible.
MOtorboat
12-03-2013, 01:34 PM
I'm not convinced he's done. I'm convinced he's hurt.
Lancane
12-03-2013, 01:41 PM
I think it depends on what Champ wants to do. If he wants to keep playing CB in a reduced role, and a reduced rate then I am positive Denver will keep him. He has gone on record stating he wants to move to safety around this age. So that is a possibility to.
He is a HOF player, and if he wants to continue Denver will make every effort to make that possible.
This is where we see the greatest division that divides the fans from the league, because at the end of the day we're mere fans while to the league and the front offices of each and every team this is a business not just sports based entertainment. Champ has a choice, retire a Bronco or don't, but the reality and crux of this situation is that he can barely hold his own in this league any longer and he is costing the team way too much for even that.
claymore
12-03-2013, 01:45 PM
I'm not convinced he's done. I'm convinced he's hurt.
After seeing him run full speed without any signs of pain and practicing at full speed, how are you coming to that conclusion?
jhildebrand
12-03-2013, 01:45 PM
Champ will be fine. This week was essentially preseason game 1 for him. Give him some time to knock the rust off and get his legs and lungs together. Come playoff time he will shine.
Lancane
12-03-2013, 02:11 PM
Champ will be fine. This week was essentially preseason game 1 for him. Give him some time to knock the rust off and get his legs and lungs together. Come playoff time he will shine.
Can't knock the rust off when you need a walker to get on the field in the first place! :lol:
Because you don't need to be as fast at safety as you do on the island at corner. We've seen corners move to safety after injury and at the end of their careers before. But other than just a couple, NONE have made a good transition. Personally, I can understand the appeal of him moving....AFTER this season. But 13 weeks into the NFL is NOT the time to try and learn a new one.
Nacho and Moore. Why move Champ to safety on this team? To be a backup? To move Moore or Nacho back to second string and slow their development?
Davii
12-03-2013, 02:25 PM
Man... HOF player plays Damn near his whole career here, has a pro bowl season with a couple bad games, gets hurt, plays rusty in only second game played through whole season and it seems the majority of people have decided Champ sucks.
I thought the front office was supposed to be the ones with no loyalty.
Champ has earned, and damn sure deserves, the benefit of the doubt. He has been injured and is rusty. Give him time.
Should he take a pay cut after this year? Yes, and I'd be willing to bet that he does if asked.
The coaches, and the player for sure, know whether a switch is feasible. If that is ever a better option for the team and for Champ it will happen.
Until then, I personally think he has earned enough respect to be given the opportunity to get back in the swing of things and show what he does or doesn't have left.
jhildebrand
12-03-2013, 03:40 PM
Man... HOF player plays Damn near his whole career here, has a pro bowl season with a couple bad games, gets hurt, plays rusty in only second game played through whole season and it seems the majority of people have decided Champ sucks.
I thought the front office was supposed to be the ones with no loyalty.
Champ has earned, and damn sure deserves, the benefit of the doubt. He has been injured and is rusty. Give him time.
Should he take a pay cut after this year? Yes, and I'd be willing to bet that he does if asked.
The coaches, and the player for sure, know whether a switch is feasible. If that is ever a better option for the team and for Champ it will happen.
Until then, I personally think he has earned enough respect to be given the opportunity to get back in the swing of things and show what he does or doesn't have left.
Add to that the model of consistency, model citizen, here through thick and thin, loyal to the bone.
claymore
12-03-2013, 04:22 PM
Man... HOF player plays Damn near his whole career here, has a pro bowl season with a couple bad games, gets hurt, plays rusty in only second game played through whole season and it seems the majority of people have decided Champ sucks.
I thought the front office was supposed to be the ones with no loyalty.
Champ has earned, and damn sure deserves, the benefit of the doubt. He has been injured and is rusty. Give him time.
Should he take a pay cut after this year? Yes, and I'd be willing to bet that he does if asked.
The coaches, and the player for sure, know whether a switch is feasible. If that is ever a better option for the team and for Champ it will happen.
Until then, I personally think he has earned enough respect to be given the opportunity to get back in the swing of things and show what he does or doesn't have left.
Im interested in it because he said he was going to do it around this time in his career. I would rather have him around as competition and Depth for all of the DB's then have him retire when he can still contribute in some way.
Davii
12-03-2013, 04:49 PM
Im interested in it because he said he was going to do it around this time in his career. I would rather have him around as competition and Depth for all of the DB's then have him retire when he can still contribute in some way.
I am certainly not opposed to Champ giving safety a shot this off-season, or to possibly being the last stop gap holy shit we're out of safeties get in there Champ last resort, but to advocate he move there now, at this point in time, is ludicrous. Champ deserves the opportunity to play his position and shake the rust off. He should only play the level of snaps his skill is currently allowing, which is a reduced role for now. To write him off and say that he is done or should move now is, in my opinion, premature and silly at best, and possibly disrespectful at worst.
claymore
12-03-2013, 05:03 PM
I am certainly not opposed to Champ giving safety a shot this off-season, or to possibly being the last stop gap holy shit we're out of safeties get in there Champ last resort, but to advocate he move there now, at this point in time, is ludicrous. Champ deserves the opportunity to play his position and shake the rust off. He should only play the level of snaps his skill is currently allowing, which is a reduced role for now, but to write him off and say that he is done or should move now is, in my opinion, premature and silly at best, and possibly disrespectful at worst.
I dont think anything happens this year. If I was king for a day I would like to see him in a couple of practices though. Worst case, he isnt as good as Adams.
I think this only gets brought up if its something he is willing to do. So, I dont think there will be any disrespect, or hurt feelings. Especially if its framed in a way that expresses the Broncos love for him, and their desire to extend his career past the normal CB shelf life.
Davii, I don't want Champ at safety on this team with the emergence of Nacho and Moore as top safeties.
claymore
12-03-2013, 05:33 PM
Davii, I don't want Champ at safety on this team with the emergence of Nacho and Moore as top safeties.
Moore might not ever play again right?
Davii
12-03-2013, 05:41 PM
Moore might not ever play again right?
Highly unlikely that he won't play again.
weazel
12-03-2013, 06:16 PM
well he looked pretty "rusty" and "dinged up" last season.
MOtorboat
12-03-2013, 06:20 PM
well he looked pretty "rusty" and "dinged up" last season.
No he didn't.
weazel
12-03-2013, 06:21 PM
No he didn't.
he played off receivers and gave up alot of plays in front of him and when he did try to play man on man he got torched a few times... unfortunately he got burned bad in the Baltimore game more than a few times. But lets continue to blame the game on Moore, it's easy to put the blame on the guys making less money.
I will think what I think and you can say Im wrong... thats how this goes, right? Oh yeah, then you start with the "thats ridiculous" or "only a fool would say that" or some other rhetoric you like to spout off
I will just put it this way... no team in this league is afraid to throw it Champ's way anymore.
Broncolingus
12-03-2013, 06:27 PM
There's about 2819 threads on this right now too.
Concur...
No offense (seriously) to anyone, but...
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/540/670/80d.gif
BroncoWave
12-03-2013, 06:29 PM
He seemed to play pretty well against KC. Even if he can just play at 80% of his top form, a group of he, DRC, Webster, and Harris will be a pretty nasty one for our playoff run. I also like the idea of limiting his playing time until he rounds more into shape.
MOtorboat
12-03-2013, 06:43 PM
he played off receivers and gave up alot of plays in front of him and when he did try to play man on man he got torched a few times... unfortunately he got burned bad in the Baltimore game more than a few times. But lets continue to blame the game on Moore, it's easy to put the blame on the guys making less money.
I will think what I think and you can say Im wrong... thats how this goes, right? Oh yeah, then you start with the "thats ridiculous" or "only a fool would say that" or some other rhetoric you like to spout off
I will just put it this way... no team in this league is afraid to throw it Champ's way anymore.
He gave up three touchdowns last season. Two were in that game. Can't deny that. But that means in the 16-game regular season he gave up one touchdown. I don't really see how playing off has anything to do with reduced skills. All of our corners play off, and you can say you like it or not, and personally I'd like if they played up more too, but that's not on Champ's ability, that's on coaching.
He completely shut down Steve Smith and Dwayne Bowe twice when asked to play up and play tight man.
Of course he's not 26 anymore, and he's not the Champ of 2005, but he's not a bum. He was an All-Pro last year, and it wasn't because of reputation.
Moore might not ever play again right?
No.
I think it depends on what Champ wants to do. If he wants to keep playing CB in a reduced role, and a reduced rate then I am positive Denver will keep him. He has gone on record stating he wants to move to safety around this age. So that is a possibility to.
He is a HOF player, and if he wants to continue Denver will make every effort to make that possible.
^That^ As far as the KC game in particular: Champ had only played one full game this season, and the rest of the time it was hard to even practice with that particular injury. With an arm or hand injury he might be able to wrap it up and just not use it in practice, but a foot? How he's gonna practice without putting stress on his foot?
Let's see how the rest of this season goes, then check back in the offseason. He knows he's not worth $9 million to us or anyone else next year, and the same Rotoworld that lists that 2014 figure also said he was benched for KCs last drive, but NOT because of his foot, and quoted him saying, "I've got to get my mind back right, got to get my body back right. That combination, plus being 35, it's tough. It's a tough game. It's a young man's game."
Simple Jaded
12-04-2013, 03:43 PM
Nacho and Moore. Why move Champ to safety on this team? To be a backup? To move Moore or Nacho back to second string and slow their development?
Look, I'm not a "Move Champ to S" proponent but the notion that the Broncos have surefire future stars at the position is an exaggeration. Anybody who expects Bailey to move to S and become Ed Reed in his prime is high on koolaid, the move would result in more options, sub packages and match ups.
Moore and Ihenacho are not above this, and probably never will be, all the proof you need is the fact that Mike Adams was still getting playing time before Moore went down.
Look, I'm not a "Move Champ to S" proponent but the notion that the Broncos have surefire future stars at the position is an exaggeration. Anybody who expects Bailey to move to S and become Ed Reed in his prime is high on koolaid, the move would result in more options, sub packages and match ups. Moore and Ihenacho are not above this, and probably never will be, all the proof you need is the fact that Mike Adams was still getting playing time before Moore went down.
I don't think the fact that Adams saw the field when Moore was healthy proves anything. If DRC, Champ, and Harris were all 100% do you think Jammer or Martin wouldn't see the field?
Simple Jaded
12-04-2013, 05:14 PM
I don't think the fact that Adams saw the field when Moore was healthy proves anything. If DRC, Champ, and Harris were all 100% do you think Jammer or Martin wouldn't see the field?
I'm just saying that Moore and Ihenacho aren't above being taken off the field, they're good, solid players but should have no effect whatsoever on whether or not Champ Bailey plays S.
I'm just saying that Moore and Ihenacho aren't above being taken off the field, they're good, solid players but should have no effect whatsoever on whether or not Champ Bailey plays S.
I believe the opposite. I also think the front office does too. You don't stall the development of two young guys that are already starters for the off chance that a 35 year old CB might be a better safety for a really, really limited period of time.
TXBRONC
12-04-2013, 06:57 PM
Look, I'm not a "Move Champ to S" proponent but the notion that the Broncos have surefire future stars at the position is an exaggeration. Anybody who expects Bailey to move to S and become Ed Reed in his prime is high on koolaid, the move would result in more options, sub packages and match ups.
Moore and Ihenacho are not above this, and probably never will be, all the proof you need is the fact that Mike Adams was still getting playing time before Moore went down.
Adams was getting playing time but it wasn't at the expense of Moore.
Adams was getting playing time but it wasn't at the expense of Moore.
As I recall most of Adams's playing time was when Nacho was hurt and in some dime packages.
Ravage!!!
12-04-2013, 06:59 PM
I'm just saying that Moore and Ihenacho aren't above being taken off the field, they're good, solid players but should have no effect whatsoever on whether or not Champ Bailey plays S.
This makes no sense.
This makes no sense.
I feel like if they're better at safety than Champ...they should...play above him? Like.....yeah?
Simple Jaded
12-04-2013, 09:35 PM
This makes no sense.
Moore and Ihenacho are apparently overrated.
Simple Jaded
12-04-2013, 09:36 PM
I feel like if they're better at safety than Champ...they should...play above him? Like.....yeah?
Has nothing to do with Champ Bailey, has everything to do with the notion that Mooree and Ihenacho are so good that they should never leave the field.
Moore and Ihenacho are apparently overrated.
They aren't. By some fans maybe, but not by the analysts. No one is saying they're all pros. People are saying they're young, talented, and have big upside.
Has nothing to do with Champ Bailey, has everything to do with the notion that Mooree and Ihenacho are so good that they should never leave the field. They're the starters. We KNOW what they can do now and that they will get better. We DON'T know if Champ with be worth a shit at safety and it's not worth a) reducing Moore's OR Nacho's playing time at their natural position so Champ can maybe, possibly play safety safety or b) assuming Champ would be okay as a "sub" as you've implied.
They're the starters. We KNOW what they can do now and that they will get better. We DON'T know if Champ with be worth a shit at safety and it's not worth a) reducing Moore's OR Nacho's playing time at their natural position so Champ can maybe, possibly play safety safety or b) assuming Champ would be okay as a "sub" as you've implied.
That "they're the starters" argument would be more convincing if it hadn't been used for Moore and Bruton when it was "they may eventually be the starters." Trying to transition Champ to safety isn't something I'd want to try midseason, but we don't have anyone at safety so good it's not worth a shot given Champs possession of all the skills good safeties need, throughout his career, and his speed diminishing as he ages. We're not talking about benching a couple Pro Bowlers here, and it's not like their progression's permanently frozen if Champ starts at F/SS.
Simple Jaded
12-05-2013, 02:46 AM
I'm just saying that doing Moore/Ihenacho a disservice isn't an overriding factor to consider when/if the Broncos ever decide make the change.
That "they're the starters" argument would be more convincing if it hadn't been used for Moore and Bruton when it was "they may eventually be the starters." Trying to transition Champ to safety isn't something I'd want to try midseason, but we don't have anyone at safety so good it's not worth a shot given Champs position of all the skills good safeties need, throughout his career, and his speed diminishing as he ages. We're not talking about benching a couple Pro Bowlers here, and it's not like their progression's permanently frozen if Champ starts at F/SS.
I whole-heartedly disagree.
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