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View Full Version : Well, we can put one thing to rest



Northman
11-25-2013, 05:15 AM
Tom "i love cok" Brady is a better QB than Manning. :tsk:

24-0, good ******* grief......

Joel
11-25-2013, 05:22 AM
Manning had MUCH better receivers, protection, not to mention a LOT more help from his running game, plus he was facing a much weaker secondary. Brady just had all the completions, yards and points. My strategy for getting to the SB now consists of getting the last wildcard and playing the first round in Indys dome, while some other domed team gets the #5 seed and upsets Cincy, NE or KC on the road. Then they win their next game, too, so we can play in their dome after we bea—uh oh... we may have to play outside to get to the AFCCG. Maybe Peyton should've signed with the Nuggets....

NEPatriots
11-25-2013, 06:32 AM
This was put to rest about 6 or 7 years ago for knowledgeable football fans.

The only people that still bring it up are Manning fanboys, Patriot haters, and media hatchetmen trying to be controversial, stir dumb debates and grab ratings.

It's been Tom vrs Montana since 2007, definitely since 2011.

Not Tom vrs Mr. September. Media personalities that still ask that question are either trolling or just have no journalistic integrity.
Or are NY sports fans.

sneakers
11-25-2013, 07:27 AM
Just in this game though

atwater27
11-25-2013, 08:49 AM
Except for Joe Montana wouldn't have choked away 2 bowls to inferior Giants teams.

CrazyHorse
11-25-2013, 09:14 AM
Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino

dogfish
11-25-2013, 11:37 AM
bunch of sallies. . . :coffee:

BroncoNut
11-25-2013, 11:39 AM
Tom "i love cok" Brady is a better QB than Manning. :tsk:

24-0, good ******* grief......

yeah, I'm convinced of it. he's more competitive at this point anyway. He's still on fire.

CrazyHorse
11-25-2013, 12:39 PM
Manning had MUCH better receivers, protection, not to mention a LOT more help from his running game, plus he was facing a much weaker secondary. Brady just had all the completions, yards and points. My strategy for getting to the SB now consists of getting the last wildcard and playing the first round in Indys dome, while some other domed team gets the #5 seed and upsets Cincy, NE or KC on the road. Then they win their next game, too, so we can play in their dome after we bea—uh oh... we may have to play outside to get to the AFCCG. Maybe Peyton should've signed with the Nuggets....

MUCH better receivers? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Patriots that were dropping passes...

Northman
11-25-2013, 12:47 PM
Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino

Totally the same thing! .....not.

CrazyHorse
11-25-2013, 12:51 PM
Totally the same thing! .....not.

Fine!
Eli > Brady

BroncoNut
11-25-2013, 12:54 PM
Crazyhorse for MVP!

jhildebrand
11-25-2013, 01:01 PM
This was put to rest about 6 or 7 years ago for knowledgeable football fans.

The only people that still bring it up are Manning fanboys, Patriot haters, and media hatchetmen trying to be controversial, stir dumb debates and grab ratings.

It's been Tom vrs Montana since 2007, definitely since 2011.

Not Tom vrs Mr. September. Media personalities that still ask that question are either trolling or just have no journalistic integrity.
Or are NY sports fans.

Oh I don't know. You can choose to gloss over matters and that is your perogitive. However, history is crystal clear. Your team cheated in filming other teams. In fact, compared to other teams who have "bent the rules" yours benefits from the media in that it is rarely brought up as much as it should be when discussing the Pats and their "glory."

More important is your team and QB's record, especially in the playoffs, without their MVP, the camcorder. It is night and day. I think all of your teams stats under Belichick and Brady should be marked with an asterisk. But hey puts some ear muffs on and bury that head back in the sand. Nothing to see hear.

artie_dale
11-25-2013, 01:33 PM
This was put to rest about 6 or 7 years ago for knowledgeable football fans.

The only people that still bring it up are Manning fanboys, Patriot haters, and media hatchetmen trying to be controversial, stir dumb debates and grab ratings.

It's been Tom vrs Montana since 2007, definitely since 2011.

Not Tom vrs Mr. September. Media personalities that still ask that question are either trolling or just have no journalistic integrity.
Or are NY sports fans.

Along with your true claims, I would like to also add that Tom Brady IS better than Peyton Manning, according their record against each other and after last night's game. Tom Brady now leads Peyton Manning 3 to 1, even after NE was caught cheating for who knows how long prior to 2007. So, considering Brady has a better record against Peyton, and doing so when NE hasn't relied on cheating, I guess I do have to agree with you.

jhildebrand
11-25-2013, 01:37 PM
Along with your true claims, I would like to also add that Tom Brady IS better than Peyton Manning, according their record against each other and after last night's game. Tom Brady now leads Peyton Manning 3 to 1, even after NE was caught cheating for who knows how long prior to 2007. So, considering Brady has a better record against Peyton, and doing so when NE hasn't relied on cheating, I guess I do have to agree with you.

Ok then. If we are going to laud the record of Brady vs Manning in regular season games that ultimately matter very little, then you could also point to Manning's MVP's, something else that actually matters very little at the end of the day, v Brady.

Typically Brady has had much, MUCH better teams than Manning. Let's be clear, that was not the case last night. This Bronco team is exponentially better than that Pats team and losing in that fashion should NEVER have happened.

tomjonesrocks
11-25-2013, 01:44 PM
Ditto. Brady is the better clutch player despite his 2 lost SBs and is aging better, despite Manning and Brady being pretty close in age.

Brady has had an average year at best with lackluster talent around him but can still will a win in the face of adversity. Manning is just not on his level when things start breaking down.

Scoreboard, really. Denver has proven time and time again they can't play with this team. Anyone that wants to see them in the playoffs is a glutton for punishment.

Same old same old really. Even when you think things have changed, they haven't.

slim
11-25-2013, 01:52 PM
He plays better in big games. Kind of hard to argue against that.

Elway is still the G.O.A.T.

Ravage!!!
11-25-2013, 02:00 PM
Brady has definitely had better coaching, and that absolutely makes a huge difference in every QB.r

mouthofsouth
11-25-2013, 02:07 PM
It is not quarterback vs. quarterback we should be discussing at all. It is coaching. College football has its Nick Saban; the pros have Bill Belichick. The two best in their respective sports. Belichick is a master mind, and 99% of the time he makes the decisions that turn into wins. He has a few giant mistakes, like the time the Pats were playing Indy and, because he feared Manning, went for it on fourth and two from his own 27 late in the game. But those fatal decisions are very rare. An example of his coaching genius is, when the game went to overtime last night, it was any team's game. I do not care about the 24 deficit comeback of Brady at that point. It was a level playing field. The Pats won the toss, and what does Bill do? He chooses to defend the end of the field that would give him the wind to his back during the entire OT period, rather than receive the ball, which is what most coaches do in that situation. I believe that paid off because Manning had several opportunities to advance the ball to fg range, which he is a master at, but he had to throw into the wind, so he chose to continue running the ball. Also, a fg would have been iffy kicking into the wind anyway. That one fall of the coin, and Belichick's choice, might have been the difference. Of course, the muffed punt was not in coach's plans. Otherwise the game may have ended in a tie.

Belichick gets lemons and he turns them into lemonade. He is on a level all his own. And he has been blessed with a great qb who can win when the going gets rough.

Hawgdriver
11-25-2013, 05:39 PM
It is not quarterback vs. quarterback we should be discussing at all. It is coaching. ...

Brady deserves a bunch of credit, too, but I think NE coaching was determinative. They schemed to take away Manning. Why do you think Moreno ran wild?

They wanted to chop the head off the snake. They did.

The equation is not Brady > Manning, it's Brady + NE Coaching > Manning.

But it sure looked like Brady was way more intense about winning last night.

embeeteeay
11-25-2013, 06:18 PM
It is not quarterback vs. quarterback we should be discussing at all. It is coaching. College football has its Nick Saban; the pros have Bill Belichick. The two best in their respective sports. Belichick is a master mind, and 99% of the time he makes the decisions that turn into wins. He has a few giant mistakes, like the time the Pats were playing Indy and, because he feared Manning, went for it on fourth and two from his own 27 late in the game. But those fatal decisions are very rare. An example of his coaching genius is, when the game went to overtime last night, it was any team's game. I do not care about the 24 deficit comeback of Brady at that point. It was a level playing field. The Pats won the toss, and what does Bill do? He chooses to defend the end of the field that would give him the wind to his back during the entire OT period, rather than receive the ball, which is what most coaches do in that situation. I believe that paid off because Manning had several opportunities to advance the ball to fg range, which he is a master at, but he had to throw into the wind, so he chose to continue running the ball. Also, a fg would have been iffy kicking into the wind anyway. That one fall of the coin, and Belichick's choice, might have been the difference. Of course, the muffed punt was not in coach's plans. Otherwise the game may have ended in a tie.

Belichick gets lemons and he turns them into lemonade. He is on a level all his own. And he has been blessed with a great qb who can win when the going gets rough.

Just for the record, ma'am, I want to tell you that is a very, very astute comment.

If you think of it in terms of risk, Belichick's "gamble" was the odds-on best choice under those conditions, and one very few people would have even thought about.

By taking the wind for the entire quarter (as you pointed out), he was betting that Manning couldn't drive into the wind for a TD, an extremely tough proposition, and probably would have a very difficult time (and longer field) getting into FG range, given the wind. And then, the FG would have to good.

Beli reasoned that failing in their TD effort, the worst, but highly unlikely, scenario would be a successful FG. Then, NE gets the ball back, with the wind, and an opportunity to win with a TD (if Denver had scored a FG) or a FG.

Absolutely brilliant choice, made possible, IMO, only because of the conditions.

Way to go, Bill! Reminded me of your deliberate safety call against these same Broncos a few years ago.

Northman
11-25-2013, 06:23 PM
He plays better in big games. Kind of hard to argue against that.

Elway is still the G.O.A.T.

That goes without saying.

CDress112
11-25-2013, 06:39 PM
Honest opinion, I don't agree with this. Statistically, Brady might be better, but losing last night's game was not at all Peyton's fault. It's also trouble for Peyton in the cold now a days.

bcbronc
11-25-2013, 08:37 PM
Except for Joe Montana wouldn't have choked away 2 bowls to inferior Giants teams.

To be fair, in both those games Brady drove the field and put his team ahead the last time he had the ball (other than a hail mary attempt in V2.0). In Manning's Superbowl loss, he threw a pick six that pretty much determined the game.

Joel
11-26-2013, 12:11 AM
MUCH better receivers? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Patriots that were dropping passes...
Our guys dropped a lot of balls they normally catch, but a lot of those were leaping grabs or in the dirt. On many occasions our receivers were non-issues because the ball was so overthrown they were lucky to even get a finger tip on it however high they jumped. The interception was a short pass simply thrown behind the receiver. Had Bradys scrub receivers gotten balls like that the results would've been about the same. They didn't, so Brady threw for twice as many yards, more TDs and no picks in identical conditions with worse protection and receivers against a better pass rush and secondary.

Joel
11-26-2013, 12:17 AM
It is not quarterback vs. quarterback we should be discussing at all. It is coaching. College football has its Nick Saban; the pros have Bill Belichick. The two best in their respective sports. Belichick is a master mind, and 99% of the time he makes the decisions that turn into wins. He has a few giant mistakes, like the time the Pats were playing Indy and, because he feared Manning, went for it on fourth and two from his own 27 late in the game. But those fatal decisions are very rare. An example of his coaching genius is, when the game went to overtime last night, it was any team's game. I do not care about the 24 deficit comeback of Brady at that point. It was a level playing field. The Pats won the toss, and what does Bill do? He chooses to defend the end of the field that would give him the wind to his back during the entire OT period, rather than receive the ball, which is what most coaches do in that situation. I believe that paid off because Manning had several opportunities to advance the ball to fg range, which he is a master at, but he had to throw into the wind, so he chose to continue running the ball. Also, a fg would have been iffy kicking into the wind anyway. That one fall of the coin, and Belichick's choice, might have been the difference. Of course, the muffed punt was not in coach's plans. Otherwise the game may have ended in a tie.

Belichick gets lemons and he turns them into lemonade. He is on a level all his own. And he has been blessed with a great qb who can win when the going gets rough.
If Belichick's a genius for giving us the ball when a TD wins and Moreno's already run for 200 yds, what does it say of Manning? 19/36 for 150 yds, 2 TDs and 1 Int; you were right to worry about the weather.

Simple Jaded
11-26-2013, 12:32 AM
Our guys dropped a lot of balls they normally catch, but a lot of those were leaping grabs or in the dirt. On many occasions our receivers were non-issues because the ball was so overthrown they were lucky to even get a finger tip on it however high they jumped. The interception was a short pass simply thrown behind the receiver. Had Bradys scrub receivers gotten balls like that the results would've been about the same. They didn't, so Brady threw for twice as many yards, more TDs and no picks in identical conditions with worse protection and receivers against a better pass rush and secondary.
Ok I'm positive you didn't watch the game.

Joel
11-26-2013, 01:24 AM
Ok I'm positive you didn't watch the game.
Right, because Manning made all the throws he's supposed to make, or however it was phrased; guess now each of us is equally convinced the other didn't watch the game. Guy puts up He Who Must Not Be Named numbers and it's all on his receivers dropping balls; according to the script, the next line is, "WRs can't catch balls when they're wobbly, in the dirt, over their heads and in a different place everytime."