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elwayisgod
11-25-2013, 01:10 AM
Seen enough. We are not built to win SB. Reason is we cant win the type of game in cold weather needed to make SB. Manning is a stud but its time we call a spade a spade. Dude is not even remotely close to being same when its cold. I thought that was bs, but the numbers dont lie. He is average at best in cold. That wont win in playoffs 9 of 10 times. Injuries only getting worse too. We must transform this team to a gritty, nasty, mean run first mentality that wins playoff games in elements. We can on offense as long as Ball joins Hillman in doghouse. Not sure we can get nasty/gritty enough on defense.

We need 40 degrees or better I think and at home. The worst thing about tonights game is it proved all the critics right. Every weakness that we have was exposed. Now we have huge weakness: depth

wayninja
11-25-2013, 01:11 AM
The one game against the number 2 seed in the AFC at their home stadium, and possibly the best QB against manning of all time and you've seen enough?

I'll give it another game or two.

silkamilkamonico
11-25-2013, 01:12 AM
i agree. our offense didnt even look like they wanted to be out on the field, let alone looking like a shell of the #1 offense in the nfl.

CrazyHorse
11-25-2013, 01:12 AM
Tell us how you really feel.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
11-25-2013, 01:13 AM
I've seen enough 28 point quarters to the opposition. I hope not to see it again.

Joel
11-25-2013, 01:22 AM
The one game against the number 2 seed in the AFC at their home stadium, and possibly the best QB against manning of all time and you've seen enough?

I'll give it another game or two.
Their D was missing half its starters, and even among those who played Brady was the only really great player who wasn't banged up a lot. We flat out blew that game, mainly because no decent team and coach will let a team beat them with JUST running any more than with JUST passing: It takes both, so the D can't just sell out on the one thing that's working, knowing it won't hurt them if they guess wrong on a play.

This was a decimated Pats team that's a shadow of even last years squad, and they spotted us 24 points, yet we still found a way (or rather, couldn't STOP finding MORE ways) to blow it. That's not even about Manning (though he didn't help much with the overthrows and the pick,) it's about the difference between contenders and pretenders. If KC was "exposed" last week, what were we tonight?

wayninja
11-25-2013, 01:28 AM
Their D was missing half its starters, and even among those who played Brady was the only really great player who wasn't banged up a lot. We flat out blew that game, mainly because no decent team and coach will let a team beat them with JUST running any more than with JUST passing: It takes both, so the D can't just sell out on the one thing that's working, knowing it won't hurt them if they guess wrong on a play.

This was a decimated Pats team that's a shadow of even last years squad, and they spotted us 24 points, yet we still found a way (or rather, couldn't STOP finding MORE ways) to blow it. That's not even about Manning (though he didn't help much with the overthrows and the pick,) it's about the difference between contenders and pretenders. If KC was "exposed" last week, what were we tonight?

I would hardly say we were 'exposed'. During the first half, the Patriots made so many mistakes as to be laughable. Yet they came back to win. We almost pulled it out, they slightly did. It's not a really 'convincing' win/loss to me.

We have our share of missing starters.

Every team has lost this season. Every one. That hardly disqualifies good teams from making/taking the Lombardi.

If anything your argument simply tells us our fate is in our own hands. If we can shore up the mistakes, we will do well. It's up to us. I'd rather be a good team that makes fixable mistakes than a piss poor team that needs miracles.

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 01:31 AM
Did you guys even watch the game? Y'all make Chicken Little look stoic.

Joel
11-25-2013, 01:33 AM
Did you guys even watch the game?
If I never hear that question again it will be too soon. Just because two people watch the same event and come away with radically different impressions doesn't mean one of them DIDN'T watch it. Just because one person disagrees with another doesn't make either of them an idiot. The "any criticism I don't share proves you're a complete moron about football and a bad fan to boot" crap got old long ago.

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 01:36 AM
If I never hear that question again it will be too soon. Just because two people watch the same event and come away with radically different impressions doesn't mean one of them DIDN'T watch it. Just because one person disagrees with another doesn't make either of them an idiot. The "any criticism I don't share proves you're a complete moron about football and a bad fan to boot" crap got old long ago.
Did you watch the game, Joel, simple question?

Dzone
11-25-2013, 01:39 AM
Decker was horrible and had an offensive pass interference call that was awful
Welker dropped , what? three passes? Wasnt all Manning fault

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 01:40 AM
Judging by how long it's taken to get a response I can feel a typical ten page post from Joel.

Joel
11-25-2013, 01:40 AM
I would hardly say we were 'exposed'. During the first half, the Patriots made so many mistakes as to be laughable. Yet they came back to win. We almost pulled it out, they slightly did. It's not a really 'convincing' win/loss to me.

We have our share of missing starters.

Every team has lost this season. Every one. That hardly disqualifies good teams from making/taking the Lombardi.

If anything your argument simply tells us our fate is in our own hands. If we can shore up the mistakes, we will do well. It's up to us. I'd rather be a good team that makes fixable mistakes than a piss poor team that needs miracles.
A team with only one healthy star staked us a 24 pt lead, and we blew it because the #1 offense couldn't muster more than two scores in five quarters against half a defense, even with 200 yds from one rusher. That they were even able to get back in it AT ALL after all those first half blunders and only only s half to make up for all of them speaks poorly of us. That they were able to WIN it—when all we had to do for AT LEAST a tie was cover a freaking punt—says we're kidding ourselves about a title run. The only persuasive counterargument is reaching a Conference Championship; lemme know if/when that happens.

We're missing starters, yes, but not to anywhere near the extent NE is. HALF our starting offensive players are Pro Bowlers, and all but Manning are perfectly healthy.

Joel
11-25-2013, 01:41 AM
Did you watch the game, Joel, simple question?
You know very well I did; I even managed to get in a few Gameday posts in between plays (which is unusual; I typically have to wait for halftime and after the game.)

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 01:41 AM
Decker was horrible and had an offensive pass interference call that was awful
Welker dropped , what? three passes? Wasnt all Manning fault

No, no no, Manning sucks. :burp:.......:fart:

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 01:42 AM
You know very well I did; I even managed to get in a few Gameday posts in between plays (which is unusual; I typically have to wait for halftime and after the game.)

So what's your impression of the Patriots?

wayninja
11-25-2013, 01:44 AM
A team with only one healthy star staked us a 24 pt lead, and we blew it because the #1 offense couldn't muster more than two scores in five quarters against half a defense, even with 200 yds from one rusher. That they were even able to get back in it AT ALL after all those first half blunders and only only half to make up for all of them speaks poorly of us. That they were able to WIN it—when all we had to do for AT LEAST a tie was cover a freaking punt—says we're kidding ourselves about a title run. The only persuasive counterargument is reaching a Conference Championship; lemme know if/when that happens.

We're missing starters, yes, but not to anywhere near the extent NE is. HALF our starting offensive players are Pro Bowlers, and all but Manning are perfectly healthy.

1 healthy star? You know Gronk played too, right? He looked healthy enough to me.

We mustered 24 points, Joel.

So, their QB is perfectly healthy, and ours isn't, and in your mind the fact that our receivers are healthy balances that out?

I'm not even sure what you are arguing anymore. The original post was a doom and gloom proposition that we have no chance at a SB run. We lost by a FG in overtime to probably the only team standing in our way at home in weather not suited for our style of play on an incredibly flukey ST gaffe. I hardly think that calls for us to disband and join other teams.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
11-25-2013, 01:46 AM
So what's your impression of the Patriots?

They are who we thought they were…and we let them off the hook?

elwayisgod
11-25-2013, 01:49 AM
Manning is average at best in weather. Its a fact. Career numbers dont lie. We need Cincy at home for divisional round and then a balmy 50 degree day for Colts or NE in champ game. We lost both games to the only decent teams on our schedule so far. KC isnt that good. We all know that. Doesnt that concern any of you?

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 01:50 AM
They are who we thought they were…and we let them off the hook?

Touché.

wayninja
11-25-2013, 01:51 AM
It was cold AND extremely windy.

Why is everyone ignoring the AND part? Did you see Brady in overtime? He wasn't making throws either. I guess he sucks.

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 01:52 AM
Manning is average at best in weather. Its a fact. Career numbers dont lie. We need Cincy at home for divisional round and then a balmy 50 degree day for Colts or NE in champ game. We lost both games to the only decent teams on our schedule so far. KC isnt that good. We all know that. Doesnt that concern any of you?

Average at best was good enough to win this game, I thought it was a great game. Maybe you should try some Disney movies, they always have happy endings.

elwayisgod
11-25-2013, 01:54 AM
If your counting quality wins, we have 1 so far. That is pathetic and a stretch considering its KC at home. Dont give me Dallas either. They are not a quality team. How does this not concern anyone?

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
11-25-2013, 01:55 AM
Touché.

I'm honored that you pulled the character map out for that response. That's too much work for me.

wayninja
11-25-2013, 01:55 AM
If your counting quality wins, we have 1 so far. That is pathetic and a stretch considering its KC at home. Dont give me Dallas either. They are not a quality team. How does this not concern anyone?

Every win is a quality win.

elwayisgod
11-25-2013, 01:58 AM
Im looking at big picture Jaded. We can still get home field. That being said, if we win out, we have two quality wins which both would be against overrated KC team. That is concerning period.

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 01:58 AM
I'm honored that you pulled the character map out for that response. That's too much work for me.

My keyboard did that, I didn't even know it needed it.

elwayisgod
11-25-2013, 02:00 AM
You're right. Jville at home was quality win. Give me a break.

zbeg
11-25-2013, 02:00 AM
If your counting quality wins, we have 1 so far. That is pathetic and a stretch considering its KC at home. Dont give me Dallas either. They are not a quality team. How does this not concern anyone?

I bet you were jumping off a cliff after the Chiefs/Steelers/49ers losses in 1997, only to say at the end "I had faith in them the whole time! I knew they could do it!"

Denver loses by 3 in New England after suffering a million defensive injuries, and you're done? Yeah okay, buddy. Enjoy your stay at Overreaction Central.

wayninja
11-25-2013, 02:01 AM
You're right. Jville at home was quality win. Give me a break.

Yes, because it goes on the left side instead of the right. Unless you can control the schedule somehow, winning is all you can hope to do.

How many quality losses do we have?

sneakers
11-25-2013, 02:01 AM
we need fox and his terrible challenges more than ever.

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 02:04 AM
I'm concerned about the constant fumbles, constant injuries and the interest rate. The last thing I am concerned with is what opponents do once Denver beats them.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
11-25-2013, 02:04 AM
This just in: the NFL has turned into the NCAA where quality wins/losses matter in determining your team's worth

jhildebrand
11-25-2013, 02:06 AM
I know the pats have three rings from years the afc east was referred to as the least. I dont hear them apologizing for playing the likes of the bills and dolphins!

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 02:13 AM
People act like the Broncos just beat the teams on their schedule, they beat the shit outta them.

Joel
11-25-2013, 02:26 AM
1 healthy star? You know Gronk played too, right? He looked healthy enough to me.
Last week was the first time all year he played a full game (at least, I THINK he played a full game.) He was listed on this weeks injury report with a back injury, ankle injury and a third unrelated injury I don't recall.


We mustered 24 points, Joel.
Scoring on a drive that starts at their 11 isn't an accomplishment, it's an obligation. Our only points that weren't off turnovers were a TD in the first half (thanks to a timely Ball catch and run on 3rd and forever) and the TD to force OT. Apart from that, zilch, against a D missing three starters with its three top CBs nursing injuries; I'm not even sure Talib finished the game.


So, their QB is perfectly healthy, and ours isn't, and in your mind the fact that our receivers are healthy balances that out?
Well, our TEs aren't all healthy, but since we have two Pro Bowl WRs and a pretty good #2, yeah, it balances out; it's not like Manning's in a wheelchair.


I'm not even sure what you are arguing anymore. The original post was a doom and gloom proposition that we have no chance at a SB run. We lost by a FG in overtime to probably the only team standing in our way at home in weather not suited for our style of play on an incredibly flukey ST gaffe. I hardly think that calls for us to disband and join other teams.
The Pats suck right now; they were good at the start of the season, before four key starters went out for the year, but that was then and this is now. If we'd had Clady, DRC and Champ we'd have mopped the floor with them (or maybe we find a way to blow a 40 pt halftime lead; right now I wouldn't put that past this team.) But that was then and this is now.

Champions finish games; they don't blow a 24 pt halftime lead against half a team.

Joel
11-25-2013, 02:28 AM
So what's your impression of the Patriots?
They're a crippled shell of a team and can't beat any legitimate title contender. The only way they make it past the first round of the playoffs is if they play someone beat up as badly or worse (which, to be fair, seems like a real possibility this year.)

wayninja
11-25-2013, 02:37 AM
Last week was the first time all year he played a full game (at least, I THINK he played a full game.) He was listed on this weeks injury report with a back injury, ankle injury and a third unrelated injury I don't recall.


Scoring on a drive that starts at their 11 isn't an accomplishment, it's an obligation. Our only points that weren't off turnovers were a TD in the first half (thanks to a timely Ball catch and run on 3rd and forever) and the TD to force OT. Apart from that, zilch, against a D missing three starters with its three top CBs nursing injuries; I'm not even sure Talib finished the game.


Well, our TEs aren't all healthy, but since we have two Pro Bowl WRs and a pretty good #2, yeah, it balances out; it's not like Manning's in a wheelchair.


The Pats suck right now; they were good at the start of the season, before four key starters went out for the year, but that was then and this is now. If we'd had Clady, DRC and Champ we'd have mopped the floor with them (or maybe we find a way to blow a 40 pt halftime lead; right now I wouldn't put that past this team.) But that was then and this is now.

Champions finish games; they don't blow a 24 pt halftime lead against half a team.


I still just don't understand what you are arguing. There is only one championship game, and this wasn't it.

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 02:42 AM
They're a crippled shell of a team and can't beat any legitimate title contender. The only way they make it past the first round of the playoffs is if they play someone beat up as badly or worse (which, to be fair, seems like a real possibility this year.)

Odd, because they beat the Saints.

Simple Jaded
11-25-2013, 02:46 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013101310/2013/REG6/saints@patriots#menu=highlights&tab=analyze

I wonder if Saints fans were shitting down their leg after this game.

Joel
11-25-2013, 05:07 AM
Odd, because they beat the Saints.
Yeah, when they still had Tommy Kelly starting at DT, Sebastian Vollmer starting at RT and three healthy starting CBs (the injury Talib came back from last week happened in the third quarter of that game.) They were much better with an All Pro RT than with a third stringer; does that need to be said? Again, they WERE a good team in September, but September's only tangentially related to November. The Pats were a better team with a Pro Bowler starting at RT instead of a third stringer. We were a better team with Clady at LT, too; if you have a way to magically bring him back maybe we can start hanging 50 pts on people again.

RIGHT NOW (which is all that matters) they're a crippled shell of a team who can't beat any legitimate title contender and will therefore probably lose in the first round unless they face a similar team.

Dreadnought
11-25-2013, 08:04 AM
They're a crippled shell of a team and can't beat any legitimate title contender. The only way they make it past the first round of the playoffs is if they play someone beat up as badly or worse (which, to be fair, seems like a real possibility this year.)

Nonsense. They beat the Saints, best team in the NFC IMO. Better than Seattle. Better than the Panfers. I think they are better than the Pats, and so are we - but any given Sunday and all....

Shazam!
11-25-2013, 08:46 AM
I doubt this team can pull out games when necessary.

They gave this game away.

With KC losing, they had the perfect opportunity to take control, and they failed miserably.

A real contender woulda put their boot on the Pats neck and strangled them. Instead, they allowed them to win.

I'm so friggin sick after this, its like a playoff loss.

I just can't see them winning next week in KC. Thinking KC will lose 3 in a row and back to back home games to division opponents is a dream.

Sorry for the negative attitude, but there is nothing positive after last night. Our Denver Broncos showed the? NFL who they really are.

PatriotsGuy
11-25-2013, 09:29 AM
RIGHT NOW (which is all that matters) they're a crippled shell of a team who can't beat any legitimate title contender and will therefore probably lose in the first round

So what do you think of the Denver Broncos?

CoachChaz
11-25-2013, 09:45 AM
A week ago, someone posted a link referring to how horrible the Chiefs fans were taking the loss to us. I read it...but that was nothing compared to reading this stuff today. This is sad and pathetic. We lose one damn football game in an ugly manner and some of you act as if your lives are wrecked. I'd hate to be your families over the coming holiday.

PatriotsGuy
11-25-2013, 10:08 AM
A week ago, someone posted a link referring to how horrible the Chiefs fans were taking the loss to us. I read it...but that was nothing compared to reading this stuff today. This is sad and pathetic. We lose one damn football game in an ugly manner and some of you act as if your lives are wrecked. I'd hate to be your families over the coming holiday.

What are your plans for Thanksgiving coach?

CoachChaz
11-25-2013, 10:12 AM
What are your plans for Thanksgiving coach?

Same as always. Relaxing with the family...prepping for Christmas...getting another year older...and a whole lot of not giving a shit about a Broncos loss. The only football I'll be thinking about will be throwing one around in the field with my kids.

PatriotsGuy
11-25-2013, 10:19 AM
Same as always. Relaxing with the family...prepping for Christmas...getting another year older...and a whole lot of not giving a shit about a Broncos loss. The only football I'll be thinking about will be throwing one around in the field with my kids.

Sounds good, I think American Thanksgiving has always been my favorite holiday. I used to hate it when I lived in Canada because I was always at work when the games were on and that pissed me off!

Slick
11-25-2013, 10:49 AM
A week ago, someone posted a link referring to how horrible the Chiefs fans were taking the loss to us. I read it...but that was nothing compared to reading this stuff today. This is sad and pathetic. We lose one damn football game in an ugly manner and some of you act as if your lives are wrecked. I'd hate to be your families over the coming holiday.

The day I let a football game determine my happiness on a family holiday is the day I quit watching football.

CoachChaz
11-25-2013, 10:58 AM
The day I let a football game determine my happiness on ANYTHING in my personal life is the day I quit watching football.

I'll take it a step further and change your comment a little

Dzone
11-25-2013, 11:02 AM
Moreno in a boot and crutches, DRC has his arm in a sling. We could see Hillman back next week.
Brady had more yardage throwing into the wind than manning had the whole game

Denver Native (Carol)
11-25-2013, 11:03 AM
The label - "Manning can not play in cold weather" was given to Manning before he suffered the neck injury - when he was 100% healthy. Therefore, in my opinion, if it is true, which I say, if it is true, because he looked better towards the end of the game, after he had been playing in the cold for most of the game, than at the beginning, it has to be mental hangup. If it is a mental hangup, only Manning can overcome that.

CoachChaz
11-25-2013, 11:08 AM
My take on Manning and cold weather is simple. If he looks bad in cold weather the rest of the year...regular or post season...then maybe he's just not ever going to get any better with that aspect. To me, we just have way too much invested in him to watch him play miserably against the teams that will be playoff contenders for the foreseeable future. So, unless Houston, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Miami, etc become relevant and there is a chance of playing a playoff game in those locations...we're stuck with a cold weather post season. Maybe we look at reallocating that investment

BroncoNut
11-25-2013, 11:32 AM
Their D was missing half its starters, and even among those who played Brady was the only really great player who wasn't banged up a lot. We flat out blew that game, mainly because no decent team and coach will let a team beat them with JUST running any more than with JUST passing: It takes both, so the D can't just sell out on the one thing that's working, knowing it won't hurt them if they guess wrong on a play.

This was a decimated Pats team that's a shadow of even last years squad, and they spotted us 24 points, yet we still found a way (or rather, couldn't STOP finding MORE ways) to blow it. That's not even about Manning (though he didn't help much with the overthrows and the pick,) it's about the difference between contenders and pretenders. If KC was "exposed" last week, what were we tonight?

ouch. so true Joel. (first sentence) now I'll read the rest of the post


Yep. very fair post

BroncoNut
11-25-2013, 11:35 AM
so pissed off at DRC's injury.

Mike
11-25-2013, 11:45 AM
I would hardly say we were 'exposed'. During the first half, the Patriots made so many mistakes as to be laughable. Yet they came back to win. We almost pulled it out, they slightly did. It's not a really 'convincing' win/loss to me.

We have our share of missing starters.

Every team has lost this season. Every one. That hardly disqualifies good teams from making/taking the Lombardi.

If anything your argument simply tells us our fate is in our own hands. If we can shore up the mistakes, we will do well. It's up to us. I'd rather be a good team that makes fixable mistakes than a piss poor team that needs miracles.

What we learned from this game.

Del Rio is shit for adjustments and is a questionable HC. He looked like a deer in the headlights in the 2nd half. Playing not to lose with a full half to play is ***** football.
Manning will not get it done in cold weather. Denver will not win a playoff game if it is in cold weather.
Denver's WRs are softer than Charmin Ultra Soft.
Outside of Moreno (who looked to be hurt at the end), Denver has no dependable RBs.
Holliday is completely undependable.
Denver's gameplans have become very predictable.

This is not a team that will get it done in the playoffs, especially if they have to go through any cold location.

topscribe
11-25-2013, 11:57 AM
Their D was missing half its starters, and even among those who played Brady was the only really great player who wasn't banged up a lot. We flat out blew that game, mainly because no decent team and coach will let a team beat them with JUST running any more than with JUST passing: It takes both, so the D can't just sell out on the one thing that's working, knowing it won't hurt them if they guess wrong on a play.

This was a decimated Pats team that's a shadow of even last years squad, and they spotted us 24 points, yet we still found a way (or rather, couldn't STOP finding MORE ways) to blow it. That's not even about Manning (though he didn't help much with the overthrows and the pick,) it's about the difference between contenders and pretenders. If KC was "exposed" last week, what were we tonight?
Yes, my friend, but you have to remember that the Broncos became decimated
as the game wore on. The defense that dominated in the first half found itself
without DRC, Vickerson, Bolden, and Bruton in the second half.

Losing DRC in itself was like losing three other players. All the sudden the
coverage became like a sieve. That's how much DRC means to the team,
especially while Champ lingers on the sideline. If DRC isn't injured, the Broncos
win that game, IMO.
.

BroncoNut
11-25-2013, 11:57 AM
I have to admit, as much as NEP is not appreciated right now, and OPs such as these, we deserve this loss, if we are going to win with this team, we need to lose with them two. this was a hard loss, but lose we did. it sucks bad.

weazel
11-25-2013, 12:12 PM
Pretty ugly game. While I am not going to start crying the sky is falling, it's hard not to be worried about Manning's inability to play in the cold. Moreno looked unbelievable, it's too bad he got injured again. While I love the running game and believe you absolutely need it going to win late in the year, I also think you need balance and they haven't had that the last few games. I don't think they paid Manning all that money to hand the ball off to the RB 90% of the time, but if Manning can't do anything in the cold than that's what they have to do.

The offense has looked off since Fox has been gone, I hope that changes because this just isn't good enough.

The DRC injury totally sucks, Jammer is not the answer there.

What are your thoughts on Holliday? In my opinion, the risk outweighs the reward and he can't be trusted anymore. There's a reason he was previously released.

topscribe
11-25-2013, 12:16 PM
What we learned from this game.

Del Rio is shit for adjustments and is a questionable HC. He looked like a deer in the headlights in the 2nd half. Playing not to lose with a full half to play is ***** football.
Manning will not get it done in cold weather. Denver will not win a playoff game if it is in cold weather.
Denver's WRs are softer than Charmin Ultra Soft.
Outside of Moreno (who looked to be hurt at the end), Denver has no dependable RBs.
Holliday is completely undependable.
Denver's gameplans have become very predictable.

This is not a team that will get it done in the playoffs, especially if they have to go through any cold location.

I hope the Broncos never lose JDR as a DC but never gain him as a HC.

Manning has gotten it done in cold weather. He played a fine game against
Baltimore. He won that game. The defense lost it, not him.

Maybe they need a change in receivers coach. Those big guys should win
every one-on-one.

Moreno is a stud. Ball can become one if he can learn to hold onto the ball.

Holliday has become a liability, IMO. With this offense, the Broncos don't need
a "weapon" in the return game, IMO. They need someone who makes sure the
offense has the ball on the next play.

Absolutely dominating with the run and no play-action? What's with that?

I'm not worried about the cold. I'm worried most about Moreno, DRC, and JDR.
.

Mike
11-25-2013, 12:24 PM
Manning has gotten it done in cold weather. He played a fine game against
Baltimore. He won that game. The defense lost it, not him.

I'm not worried about the cold. I'm worried most about Moreno, DRC, and JDR.
.

They will probably get a chance to prove me wrong in KC this weekend. But until they come out and show it to me in a cold game, I will remain a doubter and hold to my opinion that this team will not be a playoff threat in a cold environment. I have to admit that the ever-present comment about Manning and big games is worrisome too.

Going in to KC in cold temps and drumming them would go a long way in helping me get over my doubts.

wayninja
11-25-2013, 12:25 PM
I didn't see JDR as playing to lose... not sure why people have that impression. Moreno was killing it, so he kept feeding him. Manning was throwing shit, so he shied away from that. I don't see Fox doing it much differently tbh.

BroncoNut
11-25-2013, 12:27 PM
Ball will learn to hold onto the ball there is little doubt. the vision I've seen with Moreno has just been night and day from the last few seasons where he had none. maybe he did all along, but something was missing. do have to give some credit to to run blocking by one of the Latinos and someone else.

I'm not over this loss just yet. it's very tell tell. Wilfork was out last night and they still managed to do this to the offense. unbelievable. Peyton just seems to sputter in cold weather road games. fast forwarding, my money is on Carolina to win it all

weazel
11-25-2013, 12:27 PM
I hope the Broncos never lose JDR as a DC but never gain him as a HC.

Manning has gotten it done in cold weather. He played a fine game against
Baltimore. He won that game. The defense lost it, not him.

Maybe they need a change in receivers coach. Those big guys should win
every one-on-one.

Moreno is a stud. Ball can become one if he can learn to hold onto the ball.

Holliday has become a liability, IMO. With this offense, the Broncos don't need
a "weapon" in the return game, IMO. They need someone who makes sure the
offense has the ball on the next play.

Absolutely dominating with the run and no play-action? What's with that?

I'm not worried about the cold. I'm worried most about Moreno, DRC, and JDR.
.

perfectly said

topscribe
11-25-2013, 12:30 PM
They will probably get a chance to prove me wrong in KC this weekend. But until they come out and show it to me in a cold game, I will remain a doubter and hold to my opinion that this team will not be a playoff threat in a cold environment. I have to admit that the ever-present comment about Manning and big games is worrisome too.

Going in to KC in cold temps and drumming them would go a long way in helping me get over my doubts.
If Moreno can't go, probably the only saving grace for the Broncos will be if
Tambi Hali and Justin Houston can't, either, because the Broncos are going to
have to pass. Either that, or the Chiefs can just wait until they get the ball
back on a Ball/Hillman fumble. IMO, losing Moreno may be a recipe for disaster
against a defense such as KC's -- in their house.
.

Northman
11-25-2013, 12:33 PM
Yes, my friend, but you have to remember that the Broncos became decimated
as the game wore on. The defense that dominated in the first half found itself
without DRC, Vickerson, Bolden, and Bruton in the second half.

Losing DRC in itself was like losing three other players. All the sudden the
coverage became like a sieve. That's how much DRC means to the team,
especially while Champ lingers on the sideline. If DRC isn't injured, the Broncos
win that game, IMO.
.

While losing DRC was big im not going to hang this loss on the defense. What they did in the first half should of been enough to get a win, the fact that the offense could sustain drives or get more scores and turned the ball over themselves is what failed us last night. No way you should go into the half with a 24-0 with 17 after forced turnovers and not come out with a victory. If Brady had struggled passing last night i might be inclined to throw more blame on the D but when our own offense outside of (cant believe im saying this) Moreno cant make plays than there is a problem there. Its really a wasted shame that Moreno played as well as he did and yet we still lost. No way that should happen.

BroncoNut
11-25-2013, 12:33 PM
I didn't see JDR as playing to lose... not sure why people have that impression. Moreno was killing it, so he kept feeding him. Manning was throwing shit, so he shied away from that. I don't see Fox doing it much differently tbh.

i'm with you, but I'm not too privy to the impact of coaching on the game yet. we were pretty vanilla, but we have been all season. nothing but bubble screens (completely ineffective last night). Tamme had some clutch catches, but can't block for shit. Moreno is a complete back, and actually I'm liking what I see in Ball too despite the fumble (s). the run game was working for us, but it just didn't seem to open up the passing game when it was time to go to that. Demarius was pretty much a non factor and I think that was a key in the failure of our offense last night.

BroncoNut
11-25-2013, 12:35 PM
perfectly said

I disagree with defense losing the game last night. I think Gem said it more perfectly earlier somewhere. we rely on the offense to score points and they simply did not do that.

Northman
11-25-2013, 12:35 PM
They will probably get a chance to prove me wrong in KC this weekend. But until they come out and show it to me in a cold game, I will remain a doubter and hold to my opinion that this team will not be a playoff threat in a cold environment. I have to admit that the ever-present comment about Manning and big games is worrisome too.

Going in to KC in cold temps and drumming them would go a long way in helping me get over my doubts.

Im right there with you.

topscribe
11-25-2013, 12:37 PM
While losing DRC was big im not going to hang this loss on the defense. What they did in the first half should of been enough to get a win, the fact that the offense could sustain drives or get more scores and turned the ball over themselves is what failed us last night. No way you should go into the half with a 24-0 with 17 after forced turnovers and not come out with a victory. If Brady had struggled passing last night i might be inclined to throw more blame on the D but when our own offense outside of (cant believe im saying this) Moreno cant make plays than there is a problem there. Its really a wasted shame that Moreno played as well as he did and yet we still lost. No way that should happen.
I don't think it was so much that they couldn't make the plays as it is that they
didn't make the plays. As I implied earlier, Moreno's performance was wasted
because they implemented almost NO play-action. Here we have probably the
best play-action QB in the league, and no play-action. What's with that?
.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-25-2013, 12:37 PM
Right now, the weather forecast for KC on Sunday is 48 degrees, 30% chance of rain

Dreadnought
11-25-2013, 12:37 PM
While losing DRC was big im not going to hang this loss on the defense. What they did in the first half should of been enough to get a win, the fact that the offense could sustain drives or get more scores and turned the ball over themselves is what failed us last night. No way you should go into the half with a 24-0 with 17 after forced turnovers and not come out with a victory. If Brady had struggled passing last night i might be inclined to throw more blame on the D but when our own offense outside of (cant believe im saying this) Moreno cant make plays than there is a problem there. Its really a wasted shame that Moreno played as well as he did and yet we still lost. No way that should happen.

As far as the defense goes, they held NE to a FG when they had to in the 4th, keeping the score at a 7 point deficit. They then stopped Brady et al. 3 times (once with 2 minutes left, twice in OT) when a FG would have ended the game. I'm pissed about this loss but they manned up after that catastrophic 3rd Quarter. Brady has made a career of succeeding in those situations, and they needed a damned flubbed punt return to win the game.

Edmonton Bronco Fan (2)
11-25-2013, 12:42 PM
I think Manning in the wind is more of an issue than Manning in the cold. His arm strength is not what it used to be and last night it was clear he had trouble, at times, dealing with the wind.

What gives me confidence that the Broncos can win in the cold weather games is the threat of a balanced attack we haven't had in years. Knowshon Moreno, I stuck with the guy forever, even as many on this forum were calling for him to be cut/released and was ready myself to give up on him at the beginning of this season... suffice it to say, he's been a revelation. I never expected this kind of season for him nor him turning into such a complete every down back; his blocking, strength, speed, vision... could go on and on, this season has been extraordinary. Peyton Manning is the best thing that ever happened to his career because without him I don't think he'd have a roster spot in the NFL right now. May have taken a few years but we finally got the player we were expecting when we drafted him. If the line can continue to run block and open up holes like they did last night and Moreno's ankle injury isn't too serious (knock on wood) and Manning can play even average in the cold weather there is no reason why this team should miss a beat.

Last night was disappointing but the way in which we lost is blowing some concerns out of proportion IMO.

Dreadnought
11-25-2013, 12:46 PM
I don't think it was so much that they couldn't make the plays as it is that they
didn't make the plays. As I implied earlier, Moreno's performance was wasted
because they implemented almost NO play-action. Here we have probably the
best play-action QB in the league, and no play-action. What's with that?
.

Top, I think PMFM had no confidence at all in his own ability to hit any pass over ten yards in that wind. Brady was able to do it, but some of Manning's passes looked like the second coming of Jimmy Clausen any time he tried to hit anything over ten. I think the Pats knew that, and played extremely tight and blitzed more than is usual against Manning because they knew there was no risk of being burnt over the top. This is not really about our WR's being "soft" or some such bullshit - they had no room to work. Play action should have worked brilliantly last night, except it didn't because we didn't use it.

Why? I'm not smart enough to know. Maybe its that Manning depends so much on touch rather than actually having a true laser-rocket arm, and the wind conditions robbed him of his faith in dropping precise passes just where he wants. or maybe something else.

topscribe
11-25-2013, 12:53 PM
Top, I think PMFM had no confidence at all in his own ability to hit any pass over ten yards in that wind. Brady was able to do it, but some of Manning's passes looked like the second coming of Jimmy Clausen any time he tried to hit anything over ten. I think the Pats knew that, and played extremely tight and blitzed more than is usual against Manning because they knew there was no risk of being burnt over the top. This is not really about our WR's being "soft" or some such bullshit - they had no room to work. Play action should have worked brilliantly last night, except it didn't because we didn't use it.

Why? I'm not smart enough to know. Maybe its that Manning depends so much on touch rather than actually having a true laser-rocket arm, and the wind conditions robbed him of his faith in dropping precise passes just where he wants. or maybe something else.
Well, I don't know . . . maybe this is totally off the wall. But if the best QB in
the league when the wind isn't so strong becomes not so much when it is, and
the running game is bulldozing the defense . . . well, maybe they should have
tried Osweiler in there. Osweiler does have the laser, rocket arm. I'm not sure
how he would have done, but I look at what Foles as done in Philly, and I can't
help but to wonder how Osweiler, who is more gifted than Foles, would do.

Maybe that's a dumb suggestion. I do have some dumb things go through my
little mind. :shrugs:
.

BroncoNut
11-25-2013, 01:01 PM
I don't agree with Joel in every case. But I do appreciate his contributions. Now,
do you have something on the issue, or is your purpose here to comment on what
other posters post?

BTW, would you please spell out "you"? It's not that many more keystrokes, and
I like to think this is an adult forum.
.

:lol: at adult forum.

topscribe
11-25-2013, 01:04 PM
:lol: at adult forum.
Look, can I help it if I prefer adultery? :look:

wayninja
11-25-2013, 01:06 PM
i'm with you, but I'm not too privy to the impact of coaching on the game yet. we were pretty vanilla, but we have been all season. nothing but bubble screens (completely ineffective last night). Tamme had some clutch catches, but can't block for shit. Moreno is a complete back, and actually I'm liking what I see in Ball too despite the fumble (s). the run game was working for us, but it just didn't seem to open up the passing game when it was time to go to that. Demarius was pretty much a non factor and I think that was a key in the failure of our offense last night.

Well, again, anytime Manning attempted something deep, the ball was BADLY affected by the wind. He had 1 pick and lucky call averted a second pick. Manning just doesn't have the zip any longer to fight winds like that so throwing short/screens which has been our bread and butter made the most sense.

We took shots, those shots just tended to be awful.

jhildebrand
11-25-2013, 01:13 PM
What we learned from this game.

Del Rio is shit for adjustments and is a questionable HC. He looked like a deer in the headlights in the 2nd half. Playing not to lose with a full half to play is ***** football.

I can recall another prime time game when Del Rio was with the Jags and was up big. Same outcome in the same fashion.


Manning will not get it done in cold weather. Denver will not win a playoff game if it is in cold weather.
I am having a little problem with this constant assertion being thrown around. Go back and look at the TD to DT to tie the game. It was 20 yards in the air on an out route against the wind. It was on point. Aside from Manning and Moreno, everybody else on offense was too lackadaisical on O last night. Decker doesnt come back to the ball, he doesn't try to catch it with his hands, and in general has disappeared. Welker looked like he was still suffering affects from the concussion. Finally, Welker made a comment earlier in the year about players in the locker room need to grow up. I think we are starting to see some of that and why. This team as they begin to roll operate as though they believe in their press clippings and rest on their laurels. In short, the play selection and discipline is what should be questioned IMHO-not Manning and the weather.



Denver's WRs are softer than Charmin Ultra Soft.
Aside from DT but even he tends to disappear a bit. We kept a lot of TE's. There is no reason this team couldn't have used 3 TE's last night with rookies in the secondary for NE and smaller ones at that. Again that goes on Del Rio!



Outside of Moreno (who looked to be hurt at the end), Denver has no dependable RBs.

Why in the hell did they put him back in when he was clearly injured. Reminded me of Shanahan and RGIII.


Holliday is completely undependable.
If we are simply going to replace him in games, why keep a roster spot for him? :confused:



Denver's gameplans have become very predictable.
Agreed. The play selection is all too predictable. Run on first throw on second.



This is not a team that will get it done in the playoffs, especially if they have to go through any cold location.

If the POs begin tomorrow I would agree with that. I am holding out hope that this will serve as a wake up call-something they didn't have last year.

Joel
11-25-2013, 11:23 PM
So what do you think of the Denver Broncos?
Their gag reflex is even weaker than Bradys. :tongue:

Pudge
11-25-2013, 11:24 PM
Their gag reflex is even weaker than Bradys. :tongue:

Here's a random fact for sneakers thread: Tom Brady has no gag reflex

Joel
11-25-2013, 11:25 PM
A week ago, someone posted a link referring to how horrible the Chiefs fans were taking the loss to us. I read it...but that was nothing compared to reading this stuff today. This is sad and pathetic. We lose one damn football game in an ugly manner and some of you act as if your lives are wrecked. I'd hate to be your families over the coming holiday.
Ah, the "who cares if we lose?" defense; it would bother me less if I didn't so often wonder how much of the team feels the same way.

MOtorboat
11-25-2013, 11:41 PM
Ah, the "who cares if we lose?" defense; it would bother me less if I didn't so often wonder how much of the team feels the same way.

But, really, what does it matter? The team is virtually assured a playoff berth, still in control of the No. 1 seed and in the driver's seat for a third straight division title.

All off season all you could blabber about was how only postseason matters, and here you are going drama queen over a loss, calling it "our Super Bowl" and other hyperbolic statements.

What changed Joel? You get bored?

Joel
11-26-2013, 12:06 AM
It was cold AND extremely windy.

Why is everyone ignoring the AND part? Did you see Brady in overtime? He wasn't making throws either. I guess he sucks.
Seriously?

Brady was 34/50 for 344 yds, 3 TDs and 0 Ints (oh, if only Woodward finishes that play; that tying TD drive becomes a game winner then.)
Manning was 19/36 for 150 yds, 2 TDs and 1 Int

In what universe are those comparable numbers? Brady hit nearly 70% of his passes for twice as many yards, more TDs and NO picks; Manning barely managed to complete 50% of his passes. Yeah, the weather was the same for both of them—and Brady was a lot more effective in it, despite having lesser receivers and lesser blockers against a superior pass rush and secondary.


Average at best was good enough to win this game
Was it? If average at best was good enough to win a game we LOST, then, by definition, Manning wasn't even average.


I thought it was a great game. Maybe you should try some Disney movies, they always have happy endings.
The disconnect's not that some prefer Disneys happy endings, it's that some insist a gruesome horror story IS a happy ending. It's not Disney, it's Foxs "Anastasia" cartoon: "She went to Paris and enjoyed a long life of luxury and romance, and certainly wasn't bloodily murdered alongside her whole family." Good thinking; wanna buy Jaguars season tickets? ;)


The label - "Manning can not play in cold weather" was given to Manning before he suffered the neck injury - when he was 100% healthy. Therefore, in my opinion, if it is true, which I say, if it is true, because he looked better towards the end of the game, after he had been playing in the cold for most of the game, than at the beginning, it has to be mental hangup. If it is a mental hangup, only Manning can overcome that.
Yeah, that's pretty much how I look at both that and the 8 one-and-done playoff finishes in general. The guy's 37 though, and if he looked better on ONE DRIVE in the fourth quarter, he looked pretty awful in OT as well as the rest of the game. If he hasn't overcome the mental block(s) by now, there's little reason to think he ever will, if only because he's running short on time. Looking at the abject misery on his face in that game, and considering what winter conditions are like at Mile High, I couldn't help wondering if he'll hang it up after this year, win or lose.


But, really, what does it matter? The team is virtually assured a playoff berth, still in control of the No. 1 seed and in the driver's seat for a third straight division title.

All off season all you could blabber about was how only postseason matters, and here you are going drama queen over a loss, calling it "our Super Bowl" and other hyperbolic statements.

What changed Joel? You get bored?
Nothing changed, but that's the whole problem: Watching Mannings last game below freezing didn't inspire any confidence his next will be any better than any of the others. Like say, the one before that: In Denver. Yes, the playoffs are all that matter, but what scenarios involve Denver going to the Super Bowl without playing outside? Maybe we can just run Moreno till his legs fall off and hope all our opponents are so beat up half their front four consists of rookie scrubs. That's totally worth paying a 37 year old QB $20 million/year; who else can handoff with that kind of skill?

Except it still won't be enough, any more than only passing and NEVER running is, because when a team only does one thing well good defenses sell out on stopping it at any cost: They have nothing to fear from an offense incapable of anything else. Even Flacco had to throw a few decent passes in the cold to win a SB, and since this years SB will probably be in the cold too, so will this years champion.

Joel
11-26-2013, 12:07 AM
Yes, my friend, but you have to remember that the Broncos became decimated
as the game wore on. The defense that dominated in the first half found itself
without DRC, Vickerson, Bolden, and Bruton in the second half.

Losing DRC in itself was like losing three other players. All the sudden the
coverage became like a sieve. That's how much DRC means to the team,
especially while Champ lingers on the sideline. If DRC isn't injured, the Broncos
win that game, IMO.
.
Losing DRC was like losing three other players, alright: Our starting LB corps disappeared in the second half (I think I even saw Irving toward the end) except when getting burned on passes to a great TE playing hurt. Our D was beat up no worse than theirs (or even as badly,) and our offense is (supposedly) far better. Two Pro Bowl WRs and a good #2 vs. a bunch of scrub WRs and RBs plus a gimpy Gronk. Our offensive line dominated all night, and theirs was getting pushed around—till the second half, when our front four vanished; yes, Vickerson was hurt, but what about Phillips, Wolfe, Knighton and the former DRoY?


As far as the defense goes, they held NE to a FG when they had to in the 4th, keeping the score at a 7 point deficit. They then stopped Brady et al. 3 times (once with 2 minutes left, twice in OT) when a FG would have ended the game. I'm pissed about this loss but they manned up after that catastrophic 3rd Quarter. Brady has made a career of succeeding in those situations, and they needed a damned flubbed punt return to win the game.
That's a very good point, the more so because their third quarter wasn't as bad as it looks on paper; it wasn't great, but the offense repeatedly put them in holes with both Balls fumble and Mannings Int. So if the defense played well in the final two periods, the line blocked well all night and Moreno had the best game of his career, who's left to blame?

We can talk playcalling as we do during every game, but Del Rio's not calling many offensive plays any more than Fox or McCoy were: We ALL know who's the field marshall barking plays and audibles on EVERY down right up till the play clock expires. Our WRs dropped many balls they normally catch, but a lot were leaping catches or throws in the dirt. Our receivers were irrelevant on all the overthrows, the passes they barely got their fingertips on and the one thrown behind a WR but straight to a DB. Winning football championships requires winning in the cold, and anyone unprepared for that should stick to basketball.

My big issue with our current coaches is the lack of discipline reflected in the shocking number of turnovers and inability to finish games. I agree our players tend to believe their own press; they have a big game, even against bad teams, and start to take winning for granted, feel entitled. They have a bad first half and shrug it off in confidence they're so great they can just pull it out with another epic second half, or have a big first half and think they can coast through the second. Champions play till the gun, forcing and avoiding turnovers as they go. It's the difference between fantasy football and reality.

Simple Jaded
11-26-2013, 12:17 AM
Tldr.

Joel
11-26-2013, 01:26 AM
Tldr.
People always say that like their short attention span is someone elses fault or problem. Next time I'll respond to three different people with three separate posts; takes up so much less room that way.

Northman
11-26-2013, 05:31 AM
Joel is owning this thread.

BroncoNut
11-26-2013, 11:44 AM
I love Joel's passion. in the big scheme of things none of it matters. we are all going to be dead in 100 years I bet. but right now, here and now, as I post on this forum and watch this team it matters a lot. I wouldn't follow if it didn't. if you don't have a bit of a gutwrenching feeling about this loss and you call yourself a fan, you may want to consider moving on to another form of entertainment. this is the year folks, Peyton's ummm. .... how do I put it... getting older?

jhildebrand
11-26-2013, 09:04 PM
No plan B. We are going plan A! Then let plan A wing it around. Live and die with that $20 million dollar/year contract.

MOtorboat
11-26-2013, 09:07 PM
No plan B. We are going plan A! Then let plan A wing it around. Live and die with that $20 million dollar/year contract.

That's kind of the going rate for a quarterback. Not sure what people mean when they complain about this?

:whoknows:

tripp
11-26-2013, 10:49 PM
It's easy to get upset after a loss like that. I felt that maybe we could have scored 2 TD's in the 2nd half. But hats off to the Patriots. Belichick is truly a master coach, and picking the winds is a quality decision made by a HoF coach. "But I just felt in that particular situation with the wind being as significant as it was that we just had to stop them from getting into the end zone. If we could do that, then we would have a significant advantage in the overtime period. We just had to make one stop and keep them out of the end zone. Even if they drove down and kicked a field goal."

You can't argue against that. That was a bold move by him. I truly hope the Patriots come to our house, and play us again in the AFC championship if the fates allow. Ladies and Gents, we were just handed our 2nd loss of the season. The 1# seed is still in our hands, we need to take care of business at Arrowhead sunday afternoon. We're mad, we're embarrassed, we need to get our pride and swagger back. Peyton needs to prove the cold isn't his kryptonite.

In my personal opinion, I think we'll beat Kansas sunday, it won't be a thrashing, but we'll get the job done and it will be a classic match up, one for the ages even, against New England, in Denver for the AFC Championship.


Just to add something real quick: I've never been sold on Kansas City, I think they're nothing but a pretender, and Chargers proved me correctly. I think they will end up losing another game this season, not including the game we have against them this Sunday. Expect the Chargers to give them an even better fight in their stadium, and they have yet to play the Colts (not saying much since they got absolutely trashed by the Cards this past week-end, but I sincerely doubt that will happen again).

AlWilsonizKING
11-26-2013, 11:23 PM
Joel, do you even like the Broncos?? I LOVE the Broncos. I know when we make mistakes. I know when we play good. I know when we play bad. You try so hard to be the "voice of reason" and the "we can't blame the other team we must blame ourselves" guy that you start to sound like you're not even a fan of the team. Come on man, it's okay to be a little "homerish" and blame other thing other than you own teams mistakes.......

just my .02 after reading the thread.....


PEACE!!!

Simple Jaded
11-26-2013, 11:36 PM
Joel, do you even like the Broncos?? I LOVE the Broncos. I know when we make mistakes. I know when we play good. I know when we play bad. You try so hard to be the "voice of reason" and the "we can't blame the other team we must blame ourselves" guy that you start to sound like you're not even a fan of the team. Come on man, it's okay to be a little "homerish" and blame other thing other than you own teams mistakes.......

just my .02 after reading the thread.....


PEACE!!!
Joel likes likes the Broncos, allegedly, he's just a vindictive bitch.

jhildebrand
11-26-2013, 11:46 PM
That's kind of the going rate for a quarterback. Not sure what people mean when they complain about this?

:whoknows:

I am not complaining, MO. Yes the going average for an "elite" QB is about $20 million on average. My point was less about the salary and more about the things said by Elway when Manning was brought in specifically the "There is no plan B" and "I believe Peyton has a lot of great football left in him." If you (meaning Elway) believe those things, my point was then show you mean it. Play to the player's strengths and show him you believe that. Don't take the ball too much out of his hands. Thats what Super Bowl teams do! They play their game.

Another way to look at it is this-we wouldn't have too much complaining around here, not like we did after Sunday night if you had Manning slinging it around more and simply refreshed people of the Plan A comment. But at times it seems as though Manning is on a bit of a pitch count.

MOtorboat
11-26-2013, 11:50 PM
I am not complaining, MO. Yes the going average for an "elite" QB is about $20 million on average. My point was less about the salary and more about the things said by Elway when Manning was brought in specifically the "There is no plan B" and "I believe Peyton has a lot of great football left in him." If you (meaning Elway) believe those things, my point was then show you mean it. Play to the player's strengths and show him you believe that. Don't take the ball too much out of his hands. Thats what Super Bowl teams do! They play their game.

Another way to look at it is this-we wouldn't have too much complaining around here, not like we did after Sunday night if you had Manning slinging it around more and simply refreshed people of the Plan A comment. But at times it seems as though Manning is on a bit of a pitch count.

Then your complaint is with Manning, not Elway. Manning runs that offense, he checks in and out of plays. In Indy we know the offensive coordinator was giving him two and three play calls before each play and he picked the play he wanted. It appears they are doing the same thing here.

Besides, Manning was right, or Gase was right, Moreno had a career performance.

He's on record-setting paces for yards and touchdowns, so I'm not sure how Denver has taken it out of his hands. That just doesn't add up at all.

jhildebrand
11-26-2013, 11:56 PM
Joel likes likes the Broncos, allegedly, he's just a vindictive bitch.

I love the fancard police. It always comes up every season. Who are any of you to question Joel's (or anybody elses) cccfanhood of this team :confused:

You know, I was lobbying for ANYTHING other than Orton LONG before that was the popular thing to do. I lobbied for Tebow LONG before people wanted anything different than Orton up to and including Tebow. I said how the team would improve, the rushing game would improve. Eventually it happened. But a funny thing happened with it. The FL contingent came along and made things bad for the regular Bronco fans like myself. Many of us were castigated and labeled Teboi's and somehow second rate Broncos fans. In fact the bull shit Tebow card was lobbed at someone just a day or two ago. But you know what? Tebow was a Bronco. Why the F### would you have not rooted for the kid? :confused: HE WAS A BRONCO (and still the QB of record for the Broncos most recent PO win). Many didn't root for him. In fact, some of the people on here who call themselves "DIEHARDS" rooted for 10 of the 11 guys on Offense save Tebow. So that's die hard? :confused: Funny I would think it is the fans rooting for the logo on the jersey and the helmets and all 53 on the active roster not a nameplate on the back who are the true hardcores. Not one of them questioned the #15 haters. In fact card checking a fan of a team is about as elementary as it gets. It reeks of a poor defense, the lack of critical thinking, and out of support for your own argument.

jhildebrand
11-27-2013, 12:00 AM
Then your complaint is with Manning, not Elway. Manning runs that offense, he checks in and out of plays. In Indy we know the offensive coordinator was giving him two and three play calls before each play and he picked the play he wanted. It appears they are doing the same thing here.

Besides, Manning was right, or Gase was right, Moreno had a career performance.

He's on record-setting paces for yards and touchdowns, so I'm not sure how Denver has taken it out of his hands. That just doesn't add up at all.

There have been conflicting reports on just how much Manning calls the plays and or checks in and out of them. I know on the 3rd and 7 from last year he called the play that was called much to his chagrin same with the downing it that was questioned in that game.

I did say in another thread (maybe it was this one) they are "damned if they do and damned if they don't" especially when it comes to this game. Of course Moreno was lights out. But Manning did score the game tying TD throwing the ball around (5 of 7) IIRC. So if they sling it and lose the Moreno was going crazy crowd would complain. In the other scenario, the one that happened, others will complain. I get that. It comes with the territory.

EDIT: In short I am just playing a little devil's advocate/both sides of the fence. It is easy to argue both sides especially after a loss. When losses happen the zoom on the microscope increases. This case is no different.

MOtorboat
11-27-2013, 12:08 AM
I love the fancard police. It always comes up every season. Who are any of you to question Joel's (or anybody elses) cccfanhood of this team :confused:

Because he's spamming the board with posts that make him sound like a Chiefs and a Patriots fan. Not getting into the other shit.

MOtorboat
11-27-2013, 12:09 AM
There have been conflicting reports on just how much Manning calls the plays and or checks in and out of them. I know on the 3rd and 7 from last year he called the play that was called much to his chagrin same with the downing it that was questioned in that game.

I did say in another thread (maybe it was this one) they are "damned if they do and damned if they don't" especially when it comes to this game. Of course Moreno was lights out. But Manning did score the game tying TD throwing the ball around (5 of 7) IIRC. So if they sling it and lose the Moreno was going crazy crowd would complain. In the other scenario, the one that happened, others will complain. I get that. It comes with the territory.

EDIT: In short I am just playing a little devil's advocate/both sides of the fence. It is easy to argue both sides especially after a loss. When losses happen the zoom on the microscope increases. This case is no different.

Right, I get that, but that IS Plan A. That is what we got with Manning. Everyone should have known that going in. We've watched him for 17 years.

I get questioning the moves, I just don't understand questioning Elways "there's no plan B" comment. Of course there wasn't a Plan B. Why would there be?

Simple Jaded
11-27-2013, 12:18 AM
I love the fancard police. It always comes up every season. Who are any of you to question Joel's (or anybody elses) cccfanhood of this team :confused:

You know, I was lobbying for ANYTHING other than Orton LONG before that was the popular thing to do. I lobbied for Tebow LONG before people wanted anything different than Orton up to and including Tebow. I said how the team would improve, the rushing game would improve. Eventually it happened. But a funny thing happened with it. The FL contingent came along and made things bad for the regular Bronco fans like myself. Many of us were castigated and labeled Teboi's and somehow second rate Broncos fans. In fact the bull shit Tebow card was lobbed at someone just a day or two ago. But you know what? Tebow was a Bronco. Why the F### would you have not rooted for the kid? :confused: HE WAS A BRONCO (and still the QB of record for the Broncos most recent PO win). Many didn't root for him. In fact, some of the people on here who call themselves "DIEHARDS" rooted for 10 of the 11 guys on Offense save Tebow. So that's die hard? :confused: Funny I would think it is the fans rooting for the logo on the jersey and the helmets and all 53 on the active roster not a nameplate on the back who are the true hardcores. Not one of them questioned the #15 haters. In fact card checking a fan of a team is about as elementary as it gets. It reeks of a poor defense.

:golfclap:

Who are you to question my fan.......hoodedness?

jhildebrand
11-27-2013, 12:19 AM
Right, I get that, but that IS Plan A. That is what we got with Manning. Everyone should have known that going in. We've watched him for 17 years.

I get questioning the moves, I just don't understand questioning Elways "there's no plan B" comment. Of course there wasn't a Plan B. Why would there be?

Even if there would be the team couldn't afford it ;) Just like ATL, GB, NE, NO, DAL, BAL, et al can't. In the end, I just want to see this team play and continue to play to its strengths. If the run game is going feed it a little more but do what they do best-throwing the ball around. If they do and lose, then so be it.

jhildebrand
11-27-2013, 12:20 AM
:golfclap:

Who are you to question my fan.......hoodedness?

Where did I? :confused:

MOtorboat
11-27-2013, 12:24 AM
Even if there would be the team couldn't afford it ;) Just like ATL, GB, NE, NO, DAL, BAL, et al can't. In the end, I just want to see this team play and continue to play to its strengths. If the run game is going feed it a little more but do what they do best-throwing the ball around. If they do and lose, then so be it.

Who really has been successful hiring two mediocre quarterbacks in the salary cap era?

Ultimately, you're invested in the quarterback. That's how it works. Had Orton been the guy to win a couple division titles and take the team to an AFC Championship game or a Super Bowl, the rate would have been around 17. Had Tebow done the same the thing two years later the rate would've been about 19. If they don't sign Manning, and try to go with a rookie, let's say Osweiler and after his four-year rookie contract he's winning divisions and playoff games, the rate would likely be 22 or 23 million.

That's how this works. When they signed an elite quarterback the going rate was 20.

Simple Jaded
11-27-2013, 12:24 AM
Where did I? :confused:

I don't even know, actually, after you started ranting on your soapbox about Tebow I stopped reading and assumed you were headed that direction.

jhildebrand
11-27-2013, 12:32 AM
I don't even know, actually, after you started ranting on your soapbox about Tebow I stopped reading and assumed you were headed that direction.

Well I guess we know what happens when you assume ;)

Funny how it is a rant when someone with a different viewpoint than you has something to say but when it is you calling people out it is a perfectly fine post and calling them a "vindictive bitch" is perfectly acceptable.

If we all agreed and all saw things the same way, this site would be useless and incredibly boring.

jhildebrand
11-27-2013, 12:36 AM
Who really has been successful hiring two mediocre quarterbacks in the salary cap era?

Ultimately, you're invested in the quarterback. That's how it works. Had Orton been the guy to win a couple division titles and take the team to an AFC Championship game or a Super Bowl, the rate would have been around 17. Had Tebow done the same the thing two years later the rate would've been about 19. If they don't sign Manning, and try to go with a rookie, let's say Osweiler and after his four-year rookie contract he's winning divisions and playoff games, the rate would likely be 22 or 23 million.

That's how this works. When they signed an elite quarterback the going rate was 20.

We are on the same page, Mo. :salute: I am not railing against the $20 Million. That is the rate for elite (then and now). I get that. Also, when you have elite you wont have an elite backup behind the starter. The salary cap wont accomodate that. Hence my "even if there was a Plan B the team couldn't afford it" comment.

MOtorboat
11-27-2013, 12:48 AM
We are on the same page, Mo. :salute: I am not railing against the $20 Million. That is the rate for elite (then and now). I get that. Also, when you have elite you wont have an elite backup behind the starter. The salary cap wont accomodate that. Hence my "even if there was a Plan B the team couldn't afford it" comment.

Fair enough. When I read comments like that, though, it makes it sound as if people think they SHOULD be able to afford it.

jhildebrand
11-27-2013, 12:50 AM
Fair enough. When I read comments like that, though, it makes it sound as if people think they SHOULD be able to afford it.

I would hope no one person would believe a team could afford a Manning with a Brees as back up. If there is a person who believes that they should start watching J'ai A'lai or knitting.

MOtorboat
11-27-2013, 12:58 AM
I would hope no one person would believe a team could afford a Manning with a Brees as back up. If there is a person who believes that they should start watching J'ai A'lai or knitting.

Well, when people bring up "no plan B," it makes me wonder.

Dreadnought
11-27-2013, 10:02 AM
Well, when people bring up "no plan B," it makes me wonder.

Hell, didn't we have a guy who spent most of the preseason obsessing over Brock Osweiler's total inadequacy in relation to Zac Dysert? fans will find odd things to whine about

jhildebrand
11-27-2013, 02:03 PM
Why is it odd to question Osweiler's progress given Elway's insistence on centering a draft around a back up QB who wouldn't see the field nor contribute to his "Plan A" A lot of people quesiton it and question it more now because of depth issues at positions? :confused: I know multiple personalities on The Fan and ESPN Denver radio have.

MOtorboat
11-27-2013, 03:03 PM
Why is it odd to question Osweiler's progress given Elway's insistence on centering a draft around a back up QB who wouldn't see the field nor contribute to his "Plan A" A lot of people quesiton it and question it more now because of depth issues at positions? :confused: I know multiple personalities on The Fan and ESPN Denver radio have.

It was never odd to question his progress, or even the pick.

It was odd to insist that you hinder the typical training camp and preseason process solely so that a fan could evaluate his progress (i.e., make sure the backup got snaps with the first team so that we could see it on TV).

Broncolingus
11-27-2013, 03:20 PM
I'll agree I don't think Broncos Inc., let alone us as sideline fans, have any idea what they have in Oz yet...

Bayern Bronco
11-27-2013, 05:50 PM
No, no no, Manning sucks. :burp:.......:fart:

If Manning sux then let's just cut our losses and put the backup in for the rest of the year and find a middle of the pack chump next year. Sound like a plan?

AlWilsonizKING
11-27-2013, 06:34 PM
I love the fancard police. It always comes up every season. Who are any of you to question Joel's (or anybody elses) cccfanhood of this team :confused:

"Because he's spamming the board with posts that make him sound like a Chiefs and a Patriots fan. Not getting into the other shit."

This is why I posted what I did. :rolleyes:


PEACE!!!

Captain Speardog
11-28-2013, 12:16 AM
Seen enough. We are not built to win SB. Reason is we cant win the type of game in cold weather needed to make SB. Manning is a stud but its time we call a spade a spade. Dude is not even remotely close to being same when its cold. I thought that was bs, but the numbers dont lie. He is average at best in cold. That wont win in playoffs 9 of 10 times. Injuries only getting worse too. We must transform this team to a gritty, nasty, mean run first mentality that wins playoff games in elements. We can on offense as long as Ball joins Hillman in doghouse. Not sure we can get nasty/gritty enough on defense.

We need 40 degrees or better I think and at home. The worst thing about tonights game is it proved all the critics right. Every weakness that we have was exposed. Now we have huge weakness: depth

I won't go that far but I used to say that Denver did not need to worry about record, they just need to get healthy for the playoffs. That thinking is out the window. Denver will not win 2 road playoff games in the likes of Cincinnati or New England. They need home cookin'.

Simple Jaded
11-28-2013, 02:51 PM
If Manning sux then let's just cut our losses and put the backup in for the rest of the year and find a middle of the pack chump next year. Sound like a plan?

Pssst, that was sarcasm.

Simple Jaded
11-28-2013, 02:56 PM
Yeah, when they still had Tommy Kelly starting at DT, Sebastian Vollmer starting at RT and three healthy starting CBs (the injury Talib came back from last week happened in the third quarter of that game.) They were much better with an All Pro RT than with a third stringer; does that need to be said? Again, they WERE a good team in September, but September's only tangentially related to November. The Pats were a better team with a Pro Bowler starting at RT instead of a third stringer. We were a better team with Clady at LT, too; if you have a way to magically bring him back maybe we can start hanging 50 pts on people again.

RIGHT NOW (which is all that matters) they're a crippled shell of a team who can't beat any legitimate title contender and will therefore probably lose in the first round unless they face a similar team.


Didn't say earlier that if the Broncos had Clady, DRC and Bailey they would have mopped the floor with NE? Apparently injuries only matter when it helps your POV.

wayninja
11-28-2013, 03:06 PM
Did Joel convince us, and more importantly, the broncos to more upset yet?

wayninja
11-28-2013, 03:15 PM
Seriously?

Brady was 34/50 for 344 yds, 3 TDs and 0 Ints (oh, if only Woodward finishes that play; that tying TD drive becomes a game winner then.)
Manning was 19/36 for 150 yds, 2 TDs and 1 Int

In what universe are those comparable numbers? Brady hit nearly 70% of his passes for twice as many yards, more TDs and NO picks; Manning barely managed to complete 50% of his passes. Yeah, the weather was the same for both of them—and Brady was a lot more effective in it, despite having lesser receivers and lesser blockers against a superior pass rush and secondary.

This is a very long winded answer to an unasked question.

I never said the numbers were comparable. The game was tied in overtime, and Brady just wasn't making the throws. Everything else you answered, was made up in your own mind, and never actually asked.

Simple Jaded
11-28-2013, 03:16 PM
Did Joel convince us, and more importantly, the broncos to more upset yet?

It seems as tho he got thru to elwayisgod.

Joel
11-29-2013, 02:22 AM
Joel, do you even like the Broncos?? I LOVE the Broncos. I know when we make mistakes. I know when we play good. I know when we play bad. You try so hard to be the "voice of reason" and the "we can't blame the other team we must blame ourselves" guy that you start to sound like you're not even a fan of the team. Come on man, it's okay to be a little "homerish" and blame other thing other than you own teams mistakes.......

just my .02 after reading the thread.....

PEACE!!!
It's OK to be a little homerish, just not very objective. It's not a prerequisite for being a fan either. For the record (and umpteenth time) yes, the Broncos are my favorite team; I like the Texans, Cowboys and Vikings, too (in that order) but my cap, jacket and thermos all say, "Denver Broncos." I just don't mistake orange-colored glasses for blinders.


Joel likes likes the Broncos, allegedly, he's just a vindictive bitch.
Odd choice of phrase; I'M not name-calling or a self-appointed Loyalty Officer (who demands to know what gives someone the right to question MY loyalty: What goes around comes around. ;))


:golfclap:

Who are you to question my fan.......hoodedness?
What, did you call dibs on that?


I don't even know, actually, after you started ranting on your soapbox about Tebow I stopped reading and assumed you were headed that direction.
Yeah, that seems to happen a lot: "I don't know wtf you said, because I didn't bother to read it, but will assume it was all about Tebow, therefore, screw you!" Please explain the part where responding to posts without reading them is somehow someone elses fault.


Didn't say earlier that if the Broncos had Clady, DRC and Bailey they would have mopped the floor with NE? Apparently injuries only matter when it helps your POV.
Didn't WHO say? I think I said that earlier, yeah, but how's that a contradiction? If we'd had all our best players we'd have mopped the floor with a NE team missing all but two of theirs, just like they beat NO when they had everyone but Mayo and Wilfork. We weren't beat up NEARLY as badly as them Sunday, even so; they were missing 9 starters by the end of that game, and 5 were never on the field in the first place. AND we had a 24-0 halftime lead. Yet we still lost.

How the heck are we supposed to beat ANY playoff team if we can't even beat HALF a playoff team, even with a 3 TD lead?


This is a very long winded answer to an unasked question.

I never said the numbers were comparable. The game was tied in overtime, and Brady just wasn't making the throws. Everything else you answered, was made up in your own mind, and never actually asked.
Brady made the throws in OT, and all game long: He hit 68% (far better than 53%, which is how often PFM hit.) We defended them a lot better in OT, from about midway through the 4th quarter, in fact, because by then we'd compensated for the absence of DRC and Vickerson. Unfortunately, our QB was off target all night except for ONE drive in the fourth, so we lost.

If someone makes the argument "Manning did no worse than Brady; the weather was impossible" that invites the reminder:

34/50 for 344 yds, 3 TDs and 0 Ints vs. 19/36 for 150 yds, 2 TDs and 1 Int

If the bad weather hurt Brady just as much, why was he twice as productive? Oh, it got worse in OT; fine: Why did Brady kick the crap out of Manning for the OTHER four quarters?

I can't be sure why PFM was so badly off, but (at the risk of invoking that "do you watch the games?!" pissing contest) he CLEARLY was OFF. If he plays ONE playoff game like that, we're done.

Poet
11-29-2013, 02:26 AM
Joel, just for a point of reference, I thought both quarterbacks were relatively poor in the first half.

Joel
11-29-2013, 02:52 AM
Joel, just for a point of reference, I thought both quarterbacks were relatively poor in the first half.
Brady didn't produce much in the first half, but our defense was intact and played like it. I can't fault Brady for strip-sacks and RB fumbles any more than I fault Manning when it happens to him (one thing that perplexes me is that a number of posters here HAVE faulted him for those things.) When Brady's running for his life, his receivers are blanketed and his backs drop the ball, yeah, his numbers will be down, but in terms of things he could actually control he didn't look off to me, just overmatched and unsupported.

Simple Jaded
11-29-2013, 02:58 AM
Feel free to question my choice of phrase, Joel, I can live with that. Mainly because I know why I'm defensive, and it's not because my 5th or 6th favorite team just blew a 3 TD lead.

Joel
11-29-2013, 03:18 AM
Feel free to question my choice of phrase, Joel, I can live with that. Mainly because I know why I'm defensive, and it's not because my 5th or 6th favorite team just blew a 3 TD lead.
I'm really tired of telling you Denver's my favorite team, so why don't YOU tell ME the part of the CoC that says it's OK to call another poster a "vindictive bitch."

Poet
11-29-2013, 03:39 PM
Brady didn't produce much in the first half, but our defense was intact and played like it. d.

So it's okay for Brady to play poorly when another team has a good defense? That's essentially what you just said.

Magnificent Seven
11-29-2013, 04:06 PM
Peyton Manning needs to step up in cold weather and Broncos will be fine. I think Broncos should bring an exercise bike for him. So, he can stay warm. That will do the trick!

Northman
11-29-2013, 04:14 PM
While at times i think Joel over analyzes things and can go on long rants about something that i dont agree with at least he puts some thought and research into his thoughts. I dont question his loyalty to the Broncos just because he sees some things a bit differently. Im not sure why anyone needs to start challenging his fandom or insulting the guy just because he points out different ideas. I dont agree with everything he posts but the rest of the shit going on in this thread really isnt warranted.

As to Kings last post, Brady has struggled a bit this year not just against Denver. Some of it has to do with his young receivers im sure but he hasnt played nearly as well this year as he has in years past.

Poet
11-29-2013, 04:29 PM
While at times i think Joel over analyzes things and can go on long rants about something that i dont agree with at least he puts some thought and research into his thoughts. I dont question his loyalty to the Broncos just because he sees some things a bit differently. Im not sure why anyone needs to start challenging his fandom or insulting the guy just because he points out different ideas. I dont agree with everything he posts but the rest of the shit going on in this thread really isnt warranted.

As to Kings last post, Brady has struggled a bit this year not just against Denver. Some of it has to do with his young receivers im sure but he hasnt played nearly as well this year as he has in years past.

Joel is actually Bill Belichek.

ShaneFalco
11-29-2013, 04:31 PM
is it 2 late to sign tim tebow as backup qb?

/cut myself

Poet
11-29-2013, 04:36 PM
is it 2 late to sign tim tebow as backup qb?

/cut myself

What in the **** is wrong with you!?

SR
11-29-2013, 04:46 PM
While at times i think Joel over analyzes things and can go on long rants about something that i dont agree with at least he puts some thought and research into his thoughts. I dont question his loyalty to the Broncos just because he sees some things a bit differently. Im not sure why anyone needs to start challenging his fandom or insulting the guy just because he points out different ideas. I dont agree with everything he posts but the rest of the shit going on in this thread really isnt warranted. As to Kings last post, Brady has struggled a bit this year not just against Denver. Some of it has to do with his young receivers im sure but he hasnt played nearly as well this year as he has in years past.

Brady's problems this year are all directly related to his lack of weapons on offense.

Poet
11-29-2013, 05:01 PM
Brady's problems this year are all directly related to his lack of weapons on offense.

That's not true. He's had a lot of games with a lot of errant passes and moments of bad pocket awareness. But he's Tom Brady, we just don't talk about it. It's like the Kennedy's, one does not simply report that Marilyn Monroe is being filled like a bowling ball!

SR
11-29-2013, 05:14 PM
That's not true. He's had a lot of games with a lot of errant passes and moments of bad pocket awareness. But he's Tom Brady, we just don't talk about it. It's like the Kennedy's, one does not simply report that Marilyn Monroe is being filled like a bowling ball!

I've watched a lot of Pats games this year and I don't see Brady performing any less than usual.
His pocket awareness and all that has more to do with his offensive line not being in tact and not having the kind of rapport with his current WRs that he had with guys like Welker.

Poet
11-29-2013, 05:18 PM
I've watched a lot of Pats games this year and I don't see Brady performing any less than usual.
His pocket awareness and all that has more to do with his offensive line not being in tact and not having the kind of rapport with his current WRs that he had with guys like Welker.

Watch the Cincinnati and New York Jets games. Honestly his pocket presence was less than stellar in the first half of the Denver game.

SR
11-29-2013, 05:55 PM
Watch the Cincinnati and New York Jets games. Honestly his pocket presence was less than stellar in the first half of the Denver game.

Denver was bringing the heat

Poet
11-29-2013, 06:06 PM
Denver was bringing the heat

And?

SR
11-29-2013, 06:33 PM
And?

Tom Brady is fine.

Poet
11-29-2013, 06:40 PM
Tom Brady is fine.

I am not here to judge your sexuality.

SR
11-29-2013, 09:13 PM
I am not here to judge your sexuality.

Go eat a McRib

Simple Jaded
11-29-2013, 09:33 PM
I'm really tired of telling you Denver's my favorite team, so why don't YOU tell ME the part of the CoC that says it's OK to call another poster a "vindictive bitch."

Define "OK", I'm sure there's some gray area in there somewhere.

Joel
11-30-2013, 09:25 AM
Is it OK for PFM to be as mediocre for five quarters against half a defense as Brady is for two quarters against a defense playing last years starting SS at FS? Only if Brady's MUCH better.


So it's okay for Brady to play poorly when another team has a good defense? That's essentially what you just said.
Not OK, but understandable. Is it Bradys fault Ridley and Blount BOTH fumbled? Which of them got benched? Is it his fault he lost the ball when his backup tackle got him pounded from the rear? Because that happens all the time when QBs are hit from behind; it's why starting QBs routinely lead team sin fumbles several times over again. Brady didn't repeatedly throw balls over receivers heads, into the dirt or behind them for a pick; faint praise, but not bad considering he was sacked three times in the first half and his only really good receiver was a patchwork Gronk.

Even if we ignore that, Bradys first half 11/19 (not counting the Hail Mary) was still better than PFM managed for the whole game, despite our D playing VERY well when we still had everyone but Moore. We DID force 3 turnovers (NE offered 5: Their own muffed punt plus a Brady fumble he picked up and threw for a first down.) Given NEs three missing front seven Pro Bowlers, plus a starting CB out and the other two top CBs playing hurt (one didn't finish the game) PFM should've posted Bradys stats, and vice versa, yet PFMs TD was the sole (but big) first half difference.

Joel
11-30-2013, 09:38 AM
Define "OK", I'm sure there's some gray area in there somewhere.
There's a gray area that condones vulgar personal attacks on other posters? Vindictive? You still bring up crap from two years ago just to dig at me; did we get married when I wasn't looking?

MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 10:01 AM
Is it OK for PFM to be as mediocre for five quarters against half a defense as Brady is for two quarters against a defense playing last years starting SS at FS? Only if Brady's MUCH better.


Not OK, but understandable. Is it Bradys fault Ridley and Blount BOTH fumbled? Which of them got benched? Is it his fault he lost the ball when his backup tackle got him pounded from the rear? Because that happens all the time when QBs are hit from behind; it's why starting QBs routinely lead team sin fumbles several times over again. Brady didn't repeatedly throw balls over receivers heads, into the dirt or behind them for a pick; faint praise, but not bad considering he was sacked three times in the first half and his only really good receiver was a patchwork Gronk.

Even if we ignore that, Bradys first half 11/19 (not counting the Hail Mary) was still better than PFM managed for the whole game, despite our D playing VERY well when we still had everyone but Moore. We DID force 3 turnovers (NE offered 5: Their own muffed punt plus a Brady fumble he picked up and threw for a first down.) Given NEs three missing front seven Pro Bowlers, plus a starting CB out and the other two top CBs playing hurt (one didn't finish the game) PFM should've posted Bradys stats, and vice versa, yet PFMs TD was the sole (but big) first half difference.

You sure like Brady.

Joel
11-30-2013, 10:33 AM
You sure like Brady.
I can't stand him; it's one big reason I like Eli: Say what we will of him, the Helmet Catch is a season-ending sack if his brother's playing.

Sadly, despising Brady has NO bearing on how well/badly he plays, or we against him. He didn't make Ridley and Blount fumble, and his own fumble was on one of our first half sacks. He did mishandle a snap, but picked it up and threw for a first down, so it's hard to mark that against him. Even counting the Hail Mary, 11/20 is 55%: Manning only completed 53% all night, so Bradys poor first half against good D was better than Mannings game against poor D. Bradys 68% for 344 yds, 3 TDs and 0 Ints is FAR better than Mannings 19/36 for 150 yds, 2 TDs and 1 Int.

How is that even debatable? You sure like Manning. ;)

MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 11:12 AM
I can't stand him; it's one big reason I like Eli: Say what we will of him, the Helmet Catch is a season-ending sack if his brother's playing.

Sadly, despising Brady has NO bearing on how well/badly he plays, or we against him. He didn't make Ridley and Blount fumble, and his own fumble was on one of our first half sacks. He did mishandle a snap, but picked it up and threw for a first down, so it's hard to mark that against him. Even counting the Hail Mary, 11/20 is 55%: Manning only completed 53% all night, so Bradys poor first half against good D was better than Mannings game against poor D. Bradys 68% for 344 yds, 3 TDs and 0 Ints is FAR better than Mannings 19/36 for 150 yds, 2 TDs and 1 Int.

How is that even debatable? You sure like Manning. ;)

You're just doing everything you can to make him sound really good. I'm not sure why.

Joel
11-30-2013, 11:42 AM
You're just doing everything you can to make him sound really good. I'm not sure why.
Last week I didn't have to make him sound good: He did it himself. In that awful weather everyone's using to excuse Mannings awful day.

19/36 for 150 yds, 2 TDs and 1 Int vs.
34/50 for 344 yds, 3 TDs and 0 Ints

If Manning played well but only LOOKED awful due to the weather, what does that make Brady producing twice as much in the SAME WEATHER? Without a pair of Pro Bowl WRs, and with our Pro Bowl pass rushers on the field instead of on the bench. Or, if Bradys performance despite that weather was unremarkable (or bad) what was Mannings?

It's the defenses fault for only scoring us 17 pts in the first half of the first quarter; it's the WRs fault for dropping balls they had to leap to even touch; it's the coaches fault for continual running playcalls MANNING made at the line (and rightly since passing wasn't working and we ran for >260 yds.) Who's making excuses for whom? Brady doesn't need excuses: He WON.

MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 11:45 AM
Last week I didn't have to make him sound good: He did it himself. In that awful weather everyone's using to excuse Mannings awful day.

19/36 for 150 yds, 2 TDs and 1 Int vs.
34/50 for 344 yds, 3 TDs and 0 Ints

If Manning played well but only LOOKED awful due to the weather, what does that make Brady producing twice as much in the SAME WEATHER? Without a pair of Pro Bowl WRs, and with our Pro Bowl pass rushers on the field instead of on the bench. Or, if Bradys performance despite that weather was unremarkable (or bad) what was Mannings?

It's the defenses fault for only scoring us 17 pts in the first half of the first quarter; it's the WRs fault for dropping balls they had to leap to even touch; it's the coaches fault for continual running playcalls MANNING made at the line (and rightly since passing wasn't working and we ran for >260 yds.) Who's making excuses for whom? Brady doesn't need excuses: He WON.

Fine. Brady is TEH GOAT. Manning sucks and Denver should hang it up for the season.

Of course, Denver only lost by three deep in overtime, but that doesn't matter when you can disparage Manning, does it?

Ravage!!!
11-30-2013, 11:48 AM
You sure like Brady.

No. He just dislikes Peyton. Always has.

Ravage!!!
11-30-2013, 11:53 AM
I can't stand him; it's one big reason I like Eli: Say what we will of him, the Helmet Catch is a season-ending sack if his brother's playing.



A pretty silly statement considering I can say the EXACT same thing and replace "his brother's" with "Brady." Brady isn't any more mobile than Peyton.

Joel
11-30-2013, 12:11 PM
Fine. Brady is TEH GOAT. Manning sucks and Denver should hang it up for the season.
Never said that.


Of course, Denver only lost by three deep in overtime, but that doesn't matter when you can disparage Manning, does it?
On the contrary, the loss matters a lot; it could decide playoff homefield, and even cost us the division if KC wins tomorrow. Yea: We STAYED IN a game we once LED 24-0 AT THE HALF, or stayed in it till our punt return team lost another fumble. That was despite, not because of, missing every other pass for just 150 yds and a pair of TDs. Moreno played his butt off, and the D did apart from the third quarter (featuring many short fields for NE.) Manning was along for the ride, and that's about it.

Joel
11-30-2013, 12:16 PM
No. He just dislikes Peyton. Always has.
I don't dislike him, but question his postseason performance, especially on the road/outside. He's 6-4 in dome sweet dome, but 3-7 elsewhere, including last years home loss in Denver. Some of that's the home crowd and a field his foes know far better, but he had those advantages last year: Same outcome. If he doesn't silence those questions (which are hardly mine alone) this January, I doubt he ever will; the answer will probably be set in stone.

MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 12:19 PM
Never said that.


On the contrary, the loss matters a lot; it could decide playoff homefield, and even cost us the division if KC wins tomorrow. Yea: We STAYED IN a game we once LED 24-0 AT THE HALF, or stayed in it till our punt return team lost another fumble. That was despite, not because of, missing every other pass for just 150 yds and a pair of TDs. Moreno played his butt off, and the D did apart from the third quarter (featuring many short fields for NE.) Manning was along for the ride, and that's about it.

Nevermind the drive he engineered to tie the game at the end. Let's just forget about that, because that might make it look a little less bleak.

jhildebrand
11-30-2013, 01:29 PM
Brady isn't any more mobile than Peyton.

You're kidding....right? :confused:

Joel
11-30-2013, 02:38 PM
A pretty silly statement considering I can say the EXACT same thing and replace "his brother's" with "Brady." Brady isn't any more mobile than Peyton.
You're right, he's not; what's your point? Elil's not as technically sharp as his brother, but has several key advantages. He can play in the cold (even in road playoff games) stay alive or even scramble for first downs and beats Brady in the playoffs. Plus he's six years younger.


Nevermind the drive he engineered to tie the game at the end. Let's just forget about that, because that might make it look a little less bleak.
I've repeatedly noted that drive from the start. Yea, our first ballot HoFer showed up for all of ONE DRIVE in five quarters. Cheap at twice the price. :rolleyes: Nevermind it took TWO 3rd and long penalties to keep that drive alive (though both were legit calls) or that his only other TD drive only stayed alive thanks to Ball running 30 yds after a desultory 3rd and long dump off pass.

It was only one game, not a career, but PFM looked like death warmed over Sunday, and Brady shone. Manning will bounce back; hopefully we win the rest so any rematch is in Denver.

Timmy!
11-30-2013, 04:58 PM
If only we had kept Tebow, god and Joel would be happy.

Joel
11-30-2013, 05:03 PM
If only we had kept Tebow, god and Joel would be happy.
What the Hell does he have to do with the price of tea in China? I'll be happy when we reach the SB, or at least the AFCCG. Till then, all the two year old excuses in the world can't help.

Simple Jaded
11-30-2013, 08:54 PM
Vindictive? You still bring up crap from two years ago just to dig at me; did we get married when I wasn't looking?

Touché.

Simple Jaded
11-30-2013, 09:02 PM
5hfYJsQAhl0

Not really, it's not even the most idiotic thing about this thread, after all we're actually having a discussion about how Peyton Manning measures up in the opinion of a huge Tim Tebow honk. When it comes to idiotic that pretty much takes the cake.

Dzone
11-30-2013, 09:12 PM
If only we had kept Tebow, god and Joel would be happy.
Satan is glad Tebow is gone lol

Simple Jaded
11-30-2013, 09:17 PM
Satan is glad Tebow is gone lol

Satan must like football.

ShaneFalco
11-30-2013, 09:20 PM
as much as yall can hate on tebow, Id rather have him in the backfield then ball or hillman.

SR
11-30-2013, 09:29 PM
as much as yall can hate on tebow, Id rather have him in the backfield then ball or hillman. this thread isn't about Tebow

ShaneFalco
11-30-2013, 09:37 PM
your mom is all about tebow. dayum.

SR
11-30-2013, 09:39 PM
your mom is all about tebow. dayum.

You must be high

ShaneFalco
11-30-2013, 09:41 PM
You must be high

:ridinghorse:

Simple Jaded
11-30-2013, 09:54 PM
as much as yall can hate on tebow, Id rather have him in the backfield then ball or hillman.

Why?

SR
11-30-2013, 09:55 PM
Why?

Don't feed him

ShaneFalco
11-30-2013, 10:02 PM
Don't feed him

FEEEEEEEEEED MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

http://www.yourfaceisa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/LittleShop2.jpg

Elevation inc
11-30-2013, 10:10 PM
Oh geez we lost.....WAHHHHHH the sky is falling.....

Dzone
11-30-2013, 10:15 PM
I thing those people in alabama are far more devastated than any bronco fan felt this week....

Dzone
11-30-2013, 10:16 PM
Oh geez we lost.....WAHHHHHH the sky is falling.....
show me someone who doesnt mind losing and I will show you a loser every time

Elevation inc
11-30-2013, 10:19 PM
show me someone who doesnt mind losing and I will show you a loser every time

wow, that was such a good line buddy......:coffee:. It sucks we lost, but the poster was being over dramatic.....it happens though don't worry about it. in fact I liken it to your post....overdramatic.....

SR
11-30-2013, 10:22 PM
wow, that was such a good line buddy......:coffee:. It sucks we lost, but the poster was being over dramatic.....it happens though don't worry about. in fact I liken it to your post....overdramatic.....

Fantastic insight

Simple Jaded
11-30-2013, 10:23 PM
Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs.

Elevation inc
11-30-2013, 10:25 PM
Fantastic insight

I try thanks for taking notice.....

Elevation inc
11-30-2013, 10:26 PM
Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs.

Well done.....

jhildebrand
11-30-2013, 10:26 PM
Not really, it's not even the most idiotic thing about this thread, after all we're actually having a discussion about how Peyton Manning measures up in the opinion of a huge Tim Tebow honk. When it comes to idiotic that pretty much takes the cake.

It is idiotic. Where is Joel talking about Tebow anywhere in this thread let alone Tebow's presence on the Broncos roster as a prerequisite to his happiness? :confused:

The truth is there is a tendency by quite a few people in this thread is to throw the Tebow/Teboi card at someone. It is done in the same fashion Timmy! did it-out of the blue and without any defense for their position and usually without any argument of their own. In fact, many treat it as if it is a scarlett letter to be applied to "lesser" Bronco fans as if cheering for the Broncos when Tebow was the QB of record makes you inferior somehow. Ultimately, it shows me a person who roots for the names on the back of the jersey and not the logo on the helmet. But hey :noidea: to each his own.

jhildebrand
11-30-2013, 10:28 PM
Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs.

Well many NFL players, current and former, would categorically disagree with this sentiment.

Elevation inc
11-30-2013, 10:29 PM
It is idiotic. Where is Joel talking about Tebow anywhere in this thread let alone Tebow's presence on the Broncos roster as a prerequisite to his happiness? :confused:

The truth is there is a tendency by quite a few people in this thread is to throw the Tebow/Teboi card at someone. It is done in the same fashion Timmy! did it-out of the blue and without any defense for their position and usually without any argument of their own. In fact, many treat it as if it is a scarlett letter to be applied to "lesser" Bronco fans as if cheering for the Broncos when Tebow was the QB of record makes you inferior somehow. Ultimately, it shows me a person who roots for the names on the back of the jersey and not the logo on the helmet. But hey :noidea: to each his own.


Well your Skeleton is bad ass, so you got that going for ya no matter what anyone says......

ShaneFalco
11-30-2013, 10:29 PM
thats ridiculous. If von miller got traded tomorrow i would still root for him. Why? Because he is awesome.

Simple Jaded
11-30-2013, 10:29 PM
Well done.....

It's a quote from an old movie about heartache, suffering, adversity, knowing ones physical limits.......and ultimately, triumph.

SR
11-30-2013, 10:30 PM
I try thanks for taking notice.....

You bet!

Elevation inc
11-30-2013, 10:30 PM
It's a quote from an old movie about heartache, suffering, adversity, knowing ones physical limits.......and ultimately, triumph.

I got that...I just liked the placement in the thread, don't get all literary on me...lol

SR
11-30-2013, 10:31 PM
thats ridiculous. If von miller got traded tomorrow i would still root for him. Why? Because he is awesome.

What relevance does this have to any current NFL player traded by the Broncos?

Simple Jaded
11-30-2013, 10:31 PM
It is idiotic. Where is Joel talking about Tebow anywhere in this thread let alone Tebow's presence on the Broncos roster as a prerequisite to his happiness? :confused:

The truth is there is a tendency by quite a few people in this thread is to throw the Tebow/Teboi card at someone. It is done in the same fashion Timmy! did it-out of the blue and without any defense for their position and usually without any argument of their own. In fact, many treat it as if it is a scarlett letter to be applied to "lesser" Bronco fans as if cheering for the Broncos when Tebow was the QB of record makes you inferior somehow. Ultimately, it shows me a person who roots for the names on the back of the jersey and not the logo on the helmet. But hey :noidea: to each his own.

I didn't say it wasn't idiotic, I said it wasn't the most obscenely idiotic thing I've ever heard that made everyone in this room more stupid for hearing it.

jhildebrand
11-30-2013, 10:33 PM
I didn't say it wasn't idiotic, I said it wasn't the most obscenely idiotic thing I've ever heard that made everyone in this room more stupid for hearing it.

I guess you are speaking for yourself then :salute: What is wrong with a person who happened to like Tebow and what he did for this team to the point of feeling like you have to call the person names i.e. honk. Others say teboi. I could go on. Was he not a Bronco. Was he not the QB who found a way to a home play off game? Was he not a QB who won a home playoff game? That mere fact rubs some people the WRONG way.

Simple Jaded
11-30-2013, 10:34 PM
I guess you are speaking for yourself then :salute:

It works best that way.

Timmy!
11-30-2013, 10:39 PM
It is idiotic. Where is Joel talking about Tebow anywhere in this thread let alone Tebow's presence on the Broncos roster as a prerequisite to his happiness? :confused:

The truth is there is a tendency by quite a few people in this thread is to throw the Tebow/Teboi card at someone. It is done in the same fashion Timmy! did it-out of the blue and without any defense for their position and usually without any argument of their own. In fact, many treat it as if it is a scarlett letter to be applied to "lesser" Bronco fans as if cheering for the Broncos when Tebow was the QB of record makes you inferior somehow. Ultimately, it shows me a person who roots for the names on the back of the jersey and not the logo on the helmet. But hey :noidea: to each his own.

lol

Shazam!
11-30-2013, 10:43 PM
We'll ALL KNOW what kind of meddle this team has tomorrow.

Many will disagree with me, but the fate of the Broncos' 2013 Season is all on tomorrow's game.

jhildebrand
11-30-2013, 10:46 PM
We'll ALL KNOW what kind of meddle this team has tomorrow.

Many will disagree with me, but the fate of the Broncos' 2013 Season is all on tomorrow's game.

Agreed. I believe tomorrow's game makes or breaks this team with regard to their SB odds.

Timmy!
11-30-2013, 10:48 PM
If the Broncos lose tomorrow this board is going look like a nuclear test site.

jhildebrand
11-30-2013, 10:50 PM
It is halfway there after blowing a 24 point lead to a NE team that is a shell of its former self.

SR
11-30-2013, 10:50 PM
We'll ALL KNOW what kind of meddle this team has tomorrow. Many will disagree with me, but the fate of the Broncos' 2013 Season is all on tomorrow's game.

I think that's a little over dramatic.

Joel
11-30-2013, 10:51 PM
Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs.
It often seems many feel that way. Reaching OT against a broken down version of a team that was great five years ago makes a loss a win—even in the playoffs. I wonder if the Ravens'll share their Lombardi (but don't wonder much.) I still say there's no such thing as an ugly win or pretty loss, but some wins this year shook my confidence in that (and scared the :censored: out of me.)


I didn't say it wasn't idiotic, I said it wasn't the most obscenely idiotic thing I've ever heard that made everyone in this room more stupid for hearing it.
Maybe not, but feel free and encouraged to raise the bar a bit; there's ample room. We changed QBs two years ago; if the previous one's still the best argument for that, it's pretty weak.

Simple Jaded
11-30-2013, 10:52 PM
If the Broncos lose tomorrow this board is going look like a nuclear test site.

And with the usual suspects, proving yet again that it matters who the QB is.

jhildebrand
11-30-2013, 11:00 PM
And with the usual suspects, proving yet again that it matters who the QB is.

Talking about a QB who had a subpar performance does not equate to wanting Tebow or any of the other spit you try to imply. What is so hard to understand about that? :confused: Had Manning played lights out on SNF and the team lost for other reasons, the focus would be on those other reasons. But when the team in its final 9 posessions goes:
punt
fumble
punt
interception
punt
touchdown
punt
punt
punt

Then perhaps some criticism of the QB's play is warranted.

Joel
11-30-2013, 11:06 PM
I think that's a little over dramatic.
If it is, it's not by much. Manning wasn't invited to come and didn't accept just for one-and-done seasons every year. At 38, with fused vertebra following FOUR spinal surgeries, will he return knowing our line has so little depth it's only one injury from seriously injuring HIM? Will a Gulf Coast native endure a third season that finishes with two solid MONTHS of at or below freezing games from which he doesn't even get the home respite he had in Indy, when he hasn't won a playoff game since the '09 season?

More to the point, if TWO YEARS of the PFM who was supposed to bring the Lombardi back to Denver can't even get us to the AFCCG, and leaves us with Osweiler starting, will Elway still be an executive genius, or will this place go China Syndrome? If we don't win tomorrow we BETTER do a lot better @(probably) Indy than last time, or all Hell will break loose.

Shazam!
11-30-2013, 11:11 PM
I don't at all. Being the 5 Seed and having to go all out on the road vs a 1 or 2 Seed and the Bye?

This team will NEVER win all 3 road games and come to NJ as the AFC Champion.

...and I'd LOVE TO BE WRONG!!

Shazam!
11-30-2013, 11:14 PM
If your counting quality wins, we have 1 so far. That is pathetic and a stretch considering its KC at home. Dont give me Dallas either. They are not a quality team. How does this not concern anyone?

I bet you were jumping off a cliff after the Chiefs/Steelers/49ers losses in 1997, only to say at the end "I had faith in them the whole time! I knew they could do it!"

Denver loses by 3 in New England after suffering a million defensive injuries, and you're done? Yeah okay, buddy. Enjoy your stay at Overreaction Central.

Totally different team with different strengths, different gameplans, experienced Championship leadership and a QB who knew how to win in the cold, and that's NOT a cheap shot at Manning either.

Joel
11-30-2013, 11:16 PM
Talking about a QB who had a subpar performance does not equate to wanting Tebow or any of the other spit you try to imply. What is so hard to understand about that? :confused: Had Manning played lights out on SNF and the team lost for other reasons, the focus would be on those other reasons. But when the team in its final 9 posessions goes:
punt
fumble
punt
interception
punt
touchdown
punt
punt
punt

Then perhaps some criticism of the QB's play is warranted.
I've been harping on most of those many other reasons all year (including the Indy loss, where Manning played just fine when he wasn't running for his life behind nonexistent blocking.) All "the usual suspects" hear is "Manning sux." Which is funny, because two weeks ago I was an idiot for saying we needed decent BLOCKING TEs because the franchise was getting the snot beat out of him thanks to Clark and Orange Julius, and unfairly criticizing Ball for a fumble supposedly (and solely) Mannings fault. Who was the Manning hater when I DEFENDED him...?

Orange Julius was a BRONCOS draft pick, as is Ball, so that's different: When I criticize their failings it's somehow PFMs fault and I'm an idiot; when I criticize his I'm just a Manning-hater.

MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 11:24 PM
We'll ALL KNOW what kind of meddle this team has tomorrow.

Many will disagree with me, but the fate of the Broncos' 2013 Season is all on tomorrow's game.


Agreed. I believe tomorrow's game makes or breaks this team with regard to their SB odds.

LMAO!

Really? Look at the drama queens go!

Shazam!
11-30-2013, 11:30 PM
We'll ALL KNOW what kind of meddle this team has tomorrow.

Many will disagree with me, but the fate of the Broncos' 2013 Season is all on tomorrow's game.


Agreed. I believe tomorrow's game makes or breaks this team with regard to their SB odds.

LMAO!

Really? Look at the drama queens go!

Oh yes, I love this teams chances going back to Indianapolis AND New England.

MOtorboat
11-30-2013, 11:32 PM
We'll ALL KNOW what kind of meddle this team has tomorrow.

Many will disagree with me, but the fate of the Broncos' 2013 Season is all on tomorrow's game.


Oh yes, I love this teams chances going back to Indianapolis AND New England.

I do too. It's really tough to beat a team twice in the same year.

Joel
11-30-2013, 11:53 PM
Oh yes, I love this teams chances going back to Indianapolis AND New England.
The way they played last week, that might be preferable: If we lose today and @Cincy in the playoffs we'll have been beaten by EVERY AFC division winner. I really hope it doesn't come to that, but if it does people will DEFINITELY ask why they expected a team to not just break but SHATTER records when it couldn't even beat ANY playoff team on the road.

Seriously, Broncos, lay most doubts to rest today, and the last at home in the playoffs. Biggest reason Bradys playoff record beats PFMs? He can walk to games: Manning's 6-4 at home. Know how many times Brady's won a playoff game in PFMs house? Same number that Manning did in Bradys.

Joel
11-30-2013, 11:54 PM
I do too. It's really tough to beat a team twice in the same year.
What a lovely thought for the day; and people say I'm the pessimist. :rolleyes:

SR
12-01-2013, 12:14 AM
What a lovely thought for the day; and people say I'm the pessimist. :rolleyes:

MO's post was the exact opposite of pessimism.

Joel
12-01-2013, 12:18 AM
MO's post was the exact opposite of pessimism.

It's really tough to beat a team twice in the same year.
Um, we're playing @KC today. Y'know, the team we ALREADY beat once this year? So beating them today will be "really tough"?

SR
12-01-2013, 12:20 AM
Um, we're playing @KC today. Y'know, the team we ALREADY beat once this year? So beating them today will be "really tough"?

The context of his post had zero to do with KC.

Joel
12-01-2013, 12:35 AM
The context of his post had zero to do with KC.
Yet it was stated as absolute: It's really tough to beat A team twice in the same year. Not "it's really tough to beat us twice in a year" or whatever: In general, it's really tough to beat a team twice in a year. Personally, I'd say that's because the vast majority of times teams play each other twice in a year are divisional games; divisional games are always tough because the teams (and fans) know each other and their fields so well, and half of them are always on the road, so yeah, it's hard to win both. Not sure it matters much for the playoffs—DEFINITELY matters today.

Timmy!
12-01-2013, 12:39 AM
Ffs

Simple Jaded
12-01-2013, 01:07 AM
Then perhaps some criticism of the QB's play is warranted.
When did I say it didn't?

Joel
12-01-2013, 01:56 AM
When did I say it didn't?Right here, half an hour ago: http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/566825-Good-News-Found-a-Peyton-Manning-Playoff-Win-OUTSIDE/page3

Apparently when Denvers QB plays like crap we're supposed to defend him anyway solely BECAUSE he's Denvers QB, or we're playing favorites. And anyone who says different's a hypocrite. :confused:

Simple Jaded
12-01-2013, 02:01 AM
Right here, half an hour ago: http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/566825-Good-News-Found-a-Peyton-Manning-Playoff-Win-OUTSIDE/page3

Apparently when Denvers QB plays like crap we're supposed to defend him anyway solely BECAUSE he's Denvers QB, or we're playing favorites. And anyone who says different's a hypocrite. :confused:

That's what I woulda expected from you considering your history, though I am not a bit surprised that you've literally done a 180.

Simple Jaded
12-01-2013, 02:07 AM
When Manning goes 2-8 and wins I predict a week of your posts about how pathetic Manning is and how the D/running game carried him.

Joel
12-01-2013, 08:51 AM
I just hope KC lets that FA in your sig play DT all day and get torched all day again.

Poet
12-01-2013, 09:25 PM
I don't dislike him, but question his postseason performance, especially on the road/outside. He's 6-4 in dome sweet dome, but 3-7 elsewhere, including last years home loss in Denver. Some of that's the home crowd and a field his foes know far better, but he had those advantages last year: Same outcome. If he doesn't silence those questions (which are hardly mine alone) this January, I doubt he ever will; the answer will probably be set in stone.

But he won a SB without homefield advantage, which is your quest, right? So, there you go.

sneakers
12-01-2013, 09:54 PM
I have seen enough video clips of certain running backs crying in slow motion

Hawgdriver
12-01-2013, 10:02 PM
What no one knows is that those tears are made of perchloric acid.

Joker56
12-01-2013, 10:06 PM
Ok we won !!!
Now what ???
Waiting....
Waiting.......
Waiting..........

wayninja
12-01-2013, 10:22 PM
I have seen enough video clips of certain running backs crying in slow motion

Is that what you called that? It looked like he was taking a piss out of his eyes.

Hawgdriver
12-01-2013, 10:26 PM
Too bad he wasn't crying on those Make A Wish kids... Woulda cured 'em.

Poet
12-01-2013, 10:27 PM
Why was he crying again?

karnage
12-01-2013, 10:28 PM
Joel,

Can't read anymore so if someone else asked and you responded sorry in advance.....The difference between Manning and Brady playing in that same weather is the fact the game was in New England.....aka the same stadium that Brady has played the past 15 or so seasons....He's used to those specific elements in that specific stadium...

wayninja
12-01-2013, 10:29 PM
Why was he crying again?

Um... did you hear how beautiful that anthem was? Angelic.

Hawgdriver
12-01-2013, 10:31 PM
Why was he crying again?

He's passionate about winning.

Hawgdriver
12-01-2013, 10:33 PM
Um... did you hear how beautiful that anthem was? Angelic.

I shed some tears when they played the national anthem after my mock POW captivity.

ShaneFalco
12-01-2013, 11:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oofSnsGkops

Simple Jaded
12-01-2013, 11:44 PM
Something is seriously WRONG with Slowshon, that shit ain't normal.

Joel
12-02-2013, 01:20 AM
But he won a SB without homefield advantage, which is your quest, right? So, there you go.
He didn't have homefield THROUGHOUT, but WAS at home for 2/3 playoff games (not counting the drenching Miami SB, obviously.) The other game IS significant, because it was @Baltimore and the temperature was in the mid-fifties (the other cold, or at least cool, playoff game the 40° stat deliberately excludes.)


Joel,

Can't read anymore so if someone else asked and you responded sorry in advance.....The difference between Manning and Brady playing in that same weather is the fact the game was in New England.....aka the same stadium that Brady has played the past 15 or so seasons....He's used to those specific elements in that specific stadium...
Quite possibly, and the crowd was undoubtedly a factor, too, especially as much as Manning likes to audible and re-audible at the line. Hopefully he's more used to Mile High now than any of his opponents, and we win the rest of our games so he gets to face them all there.

Honestly, the closer one looks at it the better the case for the BSP article gets: Does Manning wilt in the cold, or do all but one of his cold playoffs just happen to be on the road against teams that wouldn't be there unless they were pretty good (had better records than his, in fact)? If it's the latter, well, put most QBs in the cold on the road against playoff teams and they'll be worse than in an average regular season game. Take the extreme case: The Cheatriots beat a LOT of people at home before they got caught with the cameras; why single out Manning?

I franky don't know at this point; among his many records are the most one-and-done playoff seasons by a QB, and there's no upside to that. Let's get homefield and see what happen when he's playing in the cold, but at home with a decent defense.

Timmy!
12-02-2013, 01:22 AM
:pound:

Great thread.

Poet
12-02-2013, 01:49 AM
He didn't have homefield THROUGHOUT, but WAS at home for 2/3 playoff games (not counting the drenching Miami SB, obviously.) The other game IS significant, because it was @Baltimore and the temperature was in the mid-fifties (the other cold, or at least cool, playoff game the 40° stat deliberately excludes.)



And he went out in crappy conditions and played a very fine game against the Bears defense, which was considered to be tops in the league. That's the point.

Truth be told, Manning's success in the playoffs is something that 99% of all players would die for.

Captain Speardog
12-02-2013, 02:39 AM
What no one knows is that those tears are made of perchloric acid.

Those aren't tears at all. It is awesomeness leaking out.

Captain Speardog
12-02-2013, 02:42 AM
Moreno had the 2nd most famous tears ever.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ErIHFtEZHhA/UB5ojUXSNaI/AAAAAAAACGU/eA0wS0AhEyA/s1600/crying-indian.gif

Joel
12-02-2013, 05:34 AM
And he went out in crappy conditions and played a very fine game against the Bears defense, which was considered to be tops in the league. That's the point.

Truth be told, Manning's success in the playoffs is something that 99% of all players would die for.
1) 66° is barely below room temperature, let alone cold, and it's cold, not just generic crap, that's in question.
2) There were EIGHT turnovers in SB XLI; I'm not sure anyone could be said to have played "a very fine game." Manning had a good completion percentage, but only 247 yds, 1 TD and 1 Int.

Since the moment that game ended (Hell, since the moment its first HALF ended) I've been citing it as Exhibit A in the case against open air Super Bowls, even in warm places like Miami.

It didn't help that the Colts D and Bears offense were so awful they were almost superfluous: That game was Indys irresistable force vs. Chicagos immovable object and everyone knew it from the start. They should've sent the rest of both teams home; the game might've been closer, and would certainly have been better. Unfortunately for Chicago, the only thing harder than scoring on a great defense is scoring on a great offense. I pitied Chicagos D that day; they played their guts out in a HoF performance yet their offense refused to win.

Anyway, winning a 66° SB at a neutral site isn't much evidence Peyton can win freezing playoff games on the road or anywhere. I'm more curious how he does in freezing playoff games at home, since 1) it's highly relevant to Denvers postseason, 2) road games are harder in general, let alone against playoff teams and 3) one game isn't much of a sample from which to draw conclusions. Hopefully we win the rest and/or NE loses one so we get a home playoff game or two provide more data.

Ravage!!!
12-02-2013, 11:14 AM
as much as yall can hate on tebow, Id rather have him in the backfield then ball or hillman.

But this just how foolish you are.

MOtorboat
12-02-2013, 11:19 AM
I wonder if Denver is a 14-2 or 10-6 contender, or a 12-4 pretender now?

(Never did figure out what this means...)

GEM
12-02-2013, 11:22 AM
1 healthy star? You know Gronk played too, right? He looked healthy enough to me.

We mustered 24 points, Joel.

So, their QB is perfectly healthy, and ours isn't, and in your mind the fact that our receivers are healthy balances that out?

I'm not even sure what you are arguing anymore. The original post was a doom and gloom proposition that we have no chance at a SB run. We lost by a FG in overtime to probably the only team standing in our way at home in weather not suited for our style of play on an incredibly flukey ST gaffe. I hardly think that calls for us to disband and join other teams.

We're missing our starting left tackle, we have a backup at center, our #1 wr has a separated shoulder and our qb has bum ankles, our receiving TE has been out for 2 weeks with a bum knee....sounds real healthy. :laugh:

GEM
12-02-2013, 11:24 AM
Im looking at big picture Jaded. We can still get home field. That being said, if we win out, we have two quality wins which both would be against overrated KC team. That is concerning period.

You can only play who is put in front of you and so far, we have 2 losses. Jesus H. Christ what do some of you want? :laugh:

MOtorboat
12-02-2013, 11:24 AM
We're missing our starting left tackle, we have a backup at center, our #1 wr has a separated shoulder and our qb has bum ankles, our receiving TE has been out for 2 weeks with a bum knee....sounds real healthy. :laugh:

Starting defensive tackle is done for the season, starting defensive end was in the hospital, starting cornerback was standing on the sidelines...

Every team has injuries, they just don't count when you're trying to make the Broncos look bad and everyone else look good.

wayninja
12-02-2013, 12:24 PM
Starting defensive tackle is done for the season, starting defensive end was in the hospital, starting cornerback was standing on the sidelines...

Every team has injuries, they just don't count when you're trying to make the Broncos look bad and everyone else look good.

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of it was. I get the OP saying "THE SKY IS FALLING BECAUSE WE LOST! **** THIS TEAM!" as a total knee-jerk, overemotional response. But Joel's calculated assault is mystifying.

zbeg
12-02-2013, 12:53 PM
Starting defensive tackle is done for the season, starting defensive end was in the hospital, starting cornerback was standing on the sidelines...


And while he didn't miss time yesterday, the starting running back has to have some weird thing going on with his tear ducts. That can't be healthy. It was like something out of a horror movie.

jhildebrand
12-02-2013, 12:59 PM
Yesterday's win was huge. On the road at Arrowhead normally a house of horrors for Denver in Nov/Dec. It was huge because they dug themselves a hole but dug out of it. More importantly they weren't looking to the officials the entire game for help. They beat the refs at times as much as they beat the Chiefs. Decker had a huge day (obvious) but watching his play, he did a lot of things he wasn't doing e.g. fighting for his route, using his hands, catching with his hands and not letting it come to him.

There is a lot to like about this game. About the only thing you can criticise are the two turnovers. I like to think they come and go in multiples. When the turnovers go, this team will be one where the opponent has to play a perfect game to beat them.

Salutethis
12-02-2013, 01:01 PM
If most of these injuries that can be healed are... Denver will be impressive. I am excited if Bailey becomes the Champ of last year, and a healthy DRC will be a big deal for coverage for the Broncos D.