Disappointed in Welker

[igoe4broncos]

He was way too indecisive on the last punt. He's back there for a reason, and that's to be a safety net. Tony Carter was in no-man's land. Welker either had to decide way earlier to call everybody off or man up and catch the damn ball. I also remember at least two or three drops that were very costly.

Julian Edelman outplayed him by a wide margin.

[ForgettingBrandonMarshall]

I'm more disappointed in the D, turnovers as a whole, costly penalties, and play-calling.

Oh, and blowing a 24 point lead.

[ShaneFalco]

What? are you kidding?

How about being disappointed in the coach who called a Punt Return in overtime? No smart coach even puts the blockers back there because of this exact situation.

[DenBronx]

It's not one thing guys.



This team is too undisciplined and doesnt want it bad enough. Every loss there is one or two guys we single out.



If you want to be great you have to beat great teams. This game should have been a blowout after the 24 point lead......we blew it.

[DenBronx]

What? are you kidding?

How about being disappointed in the coach who called a Punt Return in overtime? No smart coach even puts the blockers back there because of this exact situation.

That was the most mind boggling call I have ever seen. Billy boy is lucky that didnt come back to bite him in the ass.

[ShaneFalco]

i really dont understand it, everyone knows to go for a punt block and just let the ball go.

But for some reason.... we are different?

[wayninja]

That was the most mind boggling call I have ever seen. Billy boy is lucky that didnt come back to bite him in the ass.

I don't think you understand what you are responding to.

[sneakers]

He should have taken a 40 minute shower and missed the 2nd half of the game

[Poet]

Welker has had issues in the past with the job. It seems to be an area of weakness for you guys, which is mind boggling. I am not trying to diss your team.

[Ravage!!!]

Welker has had issues in the past with the job. It seems to be an area of weakness for you guys, which is mind boggling. I am not trying to diss your team.

Right. I posted in the game thread that I absolutely HATED it when they Put Welker back there. It's not his hands, but his decision making. He doesnt normally h ave that duty, and doesn't really have the experience.

As far as "going for the block"...that's also a good way of getting a penalty. We get that ball back, we have lots of time, we either get a return or if its short, let it bounce. NOTHING wrong with calling a return on a windy field where you can't kick a long FG. That was going to be our last offensive possession.

[aberdien]

Welker is pretty inconsistent.

The issues are this team makes awful mental mistakes. They are undisciplined and inconsistent. They are also good at choking. The only reason we lost to the Cowboys was because they are bigger chokers. If we don't blow out a team, it becomes harder and harder as the weeks go on to believe that we can stick in and beat em late in the 4th. Nearly every game we have a couple horrible turnovers. Usually we are far enough ahead for this to not bite us in the ass, but in games like these those turnovers WILL bite us in the ass. We were lucky that the first half Patriots decided to hand us so many fumbles, because the only real bright side I can think of in the whole game is Knowshon and the O-line.

Bottom line: somebody is going to have to step up and tell these dudes to stop making costly errors. They are mostly mental mistakes that should be able to be fixed, but they have not been. The ceiling is high, but if the undisciplined nature of the team doesn't get fixed, it'll be tough to reach that ceiling. ESPECIALLY in inclement weather and against good teams.

[ShaneFalco]

As far as "going for the block"...that's also a good way of getting a penalty.

or getting the ball on their 20....

[wayninja]

I have no problem with replacing Holliday with Welker. Holliday had a turnover and dropped 2 more... What sane person would keep him in there?

It didn't work out, you can't know that ahead of time, it doesn't change that it was the right thing to do. If anything, the problem was giving Wes the leeway to return it or not. He should have been nowhere near that punt.

[Simple Jaded]

Welker should take Holiday's PR duties, let Holiday return KO's but he's a huge liability returning punts.

[Dzone]

That left footed kicker that Bellicheck likes to use had our punt returners confused...we need to get a left footed punter

[ForgettingBrandonMarshall]

Welker had a poor performance because he still has those lizards eating his legs.

[DenBronx]

How in the hell did Holliday go from a threat to return it every time to a huge liability?


Oh that's right, he turns the ball over. At this point I would rather a guy that's not so good but who can actually catch the ball correctly so our offense has a chance.

[DenBronx]

Welker should take Holiday's PR duties, let Holiday return KO's but he's a huge liability returning punts.


There has to be someone else on the team. Maybe Decker?

[Simple Jaded]

There has to be someone else on the team. Maybe Decker?

Decker scares me too, jeezus, is there anybody on this that doesn't fumble?

[Northman]

It's not one thing guys.



This team is too undisciplined and doesnt want it bad enough. Every loss there is one or two guys we single out.



If you want to be great you have to beat great teams. This game should have been a blowout after the 24 point lead......we blew it.


Pretty much it.

Unlike the Broncos team that Elway orchestrated to SB wins this one doesnt have the killer instinct or discipline. They just dont.

[Joel]

Right. I posted in the game thread that I absolutely HATED it when they Put Welker back there. It's not his hands, but his decision making. He doesnt normally h ave that duty, and doesn't really have the experience.

As far as "going for the block"...that's also a good way of getting a penalty. We get that ball back, we have lots of time, we either get a return or if its short, let it bounce. NOTHING wrong with calling a return on a windy field where you can't kick a long FG. That was going to be our last offensive possession.
The highlighted part is why we shouldn't have tried a return: They couldn't stop our run all night unless they loaded the box and put in all their bruisers, so run, run, run till we either get in FG range or punt. Worst case scenario they're left almost no time and no time outs to score on a D that had held them scoreless the whole period, so we go home with a tie. That would still have been pathetic after a 24-0 halftime lead, but also still far better than handing them the win. At least PFM could've avoided losing in football weather for once, but maybe he'll do better in KC next week. It's just a flukey streak, so it's gotta end some time, right?

[Poet]

Joel, if you ever wonder why no one likes you as a poster, or why many people feel like the board would be better without you, read that post again. We get it, you love to point out the flaws of PM. /vomit.

[sneakers]

he has those tiny little hands, what do you expect?

[sneakers]

Joel, if you ever wonder why no one likes you as a poster, or why many people feel like the board would be better without you, read that post again. We get it, you love to point out the flaws of PM. /vomit.

but you hate everyone king

[Poet]

but you hate everyone king

Mostly, but this was general commentary, not about me specifically.

[Mike]

There has to be someone else on the team. Maybe Decker?

Decker is too soft and would make me more nervous than Holliday. Maybe just let every ball bounce from now on is the solution? :lol:

[Dreadnought]

Decker is too soft and would make me more nervous than Holliday. Maybe just let every ball bounce from now on is the solution? :lol:

Rubbish, Mike. He had a PR for a TD in 2011 against Oakland, and might be a good choice

[artie_dale]

I thought this thread was going to be about Welker's overall under-performance.

I'm starting to wonder whether he can handle the pressure of big games (Super Bowls and playing against the team that raised him). Or, he just might have been a victim to Peyton Manning's cold weather abilities (or non-abilities) or a conservative offensive play calling approach (Del Rio or Fox). Peyton could have been a victim of conservative play calling too. When he needed to throw, Peyton did throw a couple TDs. But, the conservativeness let NE back in it. Not sure who to blame exactly. Definitely a team loss, from the bottom all the way to the top (coaching).

[jhildebrand]

Stick Decker back there. Use Holiday's roster spot on someone who can contribute more than 3-4 plays a game.

As much as he was blasted around here, including by me, at least Jim Leonard was solid in fielding the ball.

[weazel]

the entire pass offense was disappointing, no need to point out just one player.

[Mike]

Rubbish, Mike. He had a PR for a TD in 2011 against Oakland, and might be a good choice

Not this year. He has been shit for most of this season. I don't know where his head is at, but it certainly isn't on football this year. Decker has been the definition of inconsistent this year.

[Dreadnought]

I thought this thread was going to be about Welker's overall under-performance.

I'm starting to wonder whether he can handle the pressure of big games (Super Bowls and playing against the team that raised him). Or, he just might have been a victim to Peyton Manning's cold weather abilities (or non-abilities) or a conservative offensive play calling approach (Del Rio or Fox). Peyton could have been a victim of conservative play calling too. When he needed to throw, Peyton did throw a couple TDs. But, the conservativeness let NE back in it. Not sure who to blame exactly. Definitely a team loss, from the bottom all the way to the top (coaching).

Peyton basically calls his own plays. Its not coaching - and in any event he couldn't throw for crap last night, and the ground game was superb. What we could not have happen was him throwing a bad Interception or Montee Ball coughing up the rock when we had a nice ball control drive working.

[Dreadnought]

Not this year. He has been shit for most of this season. I don't know where his head is at, but it certainly isn't on football this year. Decker has been the definition of inconsistent this year.

Again, I think you are way off base. There is no evidence for that at all after his bad game one against the Ratbirds

[slim]

Decker is an embarrassment IMO. I can't stand watching him at this point.

Stop your effing whining and maybe get open once in a while. Dude is soft.

[Mike]

Again, I think you are way off base. There is no evidence for that at all after his bad game one against the Ratbirds

The only time I even know he is on the field is when he is either dropping a pass or flopping on the ground begging for a flag. I henceforth dub him Charmin.

[Bugs Baloney]

Not sure if this has been mentioned today or even last night, and maybe i should start my
own thread on the subject. Only I don't want this subjective thought to be ridiculed by some on here. So here it goes...

I know Jack's name is not Wes, nor does he have the surname Carter, but JDR showed little to zero motivational
coaching ability especially in the second half. Something else on his mind? Hurry back Mr. Fox, we need you!

[Dapper Dan]

I expected more from Wes. Jacob Tamme became what Wes Welker should be. A safe option when you need him. Yet, he dropped passes. I'm not blaming the PR thing on him. I think teams need to find a consistent PR guy and leave him back there. Either trust him or find someone else to keep back there. The team will go back to Holliday again. Then he will fumble. It may not be soon. It may be 3-4 games from now. Then they'll put in Welker or Decker or whoever. That's setting them up to make a mistake.

But anyway. I, too was disappointed in Welker.

As for the defense. They usually play find when the offense can put half of a drive together. When our offense holds on to the ball for a while, our defense plays better the next drive.

[BroncoWave]

I don't know what the hell we should do at punt returner now. Holliday is fumbling way too damn much and not making the big plays to make up for it. Welker isn't reliable back there either. Holliday's issues cost us DRC's injury and Welker's cost us a chance to tie or win the game. That position could very well cost us a playoff game as well. Honestly, we may be best off just not putting anyone back there when the other team is punting from around midfield. There is minimal upside and TONS of downside.

[Poet]

Why did RC dive for that ball?

[BroncoWave]

Why did RC dive for that ball?

DRC at the end of the half? Who knows. In the heat of the play he probably wasn't thinking about the situation. Or maybe he has a bonus for so many interceptions. Who knows?

[Poet]

DRC at the end of the half? Who knows. In the heat of the play he probably wasn't thinking about the situation. Or maybe he has a bonus for so many interceptions. Who knows?

As I watched him dive I was thinking "oh god, he's going to hurt himself." This proves I have psychic abilities. Had I just wished for him to turn into a dragon, he would have swooped it up into the air and scored a touchdown.

I blame myself, really.

[BroncoWave]

Can you wish for Tom Brady to get AIDS?

[Poet]

Can you wish for Tom Brady to get AIDS?

That would be like wishing for another bullet hole in JFK's head. It's already happened, sheesh.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Wes Welker's return to New England had its nice moments. Welker was the subject of a surprising video tribute and received a postgame hug from Bill Belichick.

Unfortunately for Welker, the night also had too many nice moments for the Patriots. Welker dropped at least a pair of crucial catches late in the game. And he was involved in the game-deciding fumble by Tony Carter. Welker, who was set to receive the punt, took the blame for not telling Carter to move away.

"I just felt like there was a lot of traffic, it was a high ball, (I) basically didn't want to get into a situation where somebody's running into me or anything else, and ended up with a situation that I didn't want to happen in the first place," Welker said, via CSNNE.com. "I gotta do a better job of getting up there and getting those guys out of the way, and making sure it doesn't hit them."

Welker believes he could have yelled to Carter earlier in the play.

rest - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000287824/article/wes-welker-takes-blame-for-gamedeciding-mistake

[aberdien]

Tony Carter also took the blame. So I guess on the bright side our players are willing to take responsibility.

[weazel]

Not sure if this has been mentioned today or even last night, and maybe i should start my
own thread on the subject. Only I don't want this subjective thought to be ridiculed by some on here. So here it goes...

I know Jack's name is not Wes, nor does he have the surname Carter, but JDR showed little to zero motivational
coaching ability especially in the second half. Something else on his mind? Hurry back Mr. Fox, we need you!

when they kept showing close ups of him in the 2nd half he looked like he was out of answers. My buddies and I were commenting on it at the time.

[Joel]

Peyton basically calls his own plays. Its not coaching - and in any event he couldn't throw for crap last night, and the ground game was superb. What we could not have happen was him throwing a bad Interception or Montee Ball coughing up the rock when we had a nice ball control drive working.
I wish more people got this, if only to end choruses of "conservative offensive playcalling; our coaches suck111" EVERY SINGLE WEEK. It's amazing how people can't shut up about what a masterful field marshall PFM is, calling fortylevendozen different signals at the line, shouting out who's the Mike, reading every defense and audibling into the PERFECT play to beat it, then audibling to YET ANOTHER when the defense responds, playing Three Card Monte till the playclock expires—then the Gameday Thread rolls around and suddenly MIKE MCOY'S a frightened idiot for calling three runs with <2:00 and a TD lead in a playoff game.

Except McCoy's in San Diego this year, so all the same offensive plays are Foxs fault.

Except Fox has been in the hospital for a month and commentators keep quoting Del Rio saying he can't constantly second guess himself trying to call Foxs game, so maybe the same plays are Gases fault.

Now, I liked the playcalling at the end of last years playoff game; if we'd had ANY decent RBs to stick out there after Moreno got hurt, and our run blockers weren't so awful we had to send Kuper hobbling out there to play the whole game on the twisted jagged piece of metal where his ankle used to be (just as he'd been doing since it ripped lose with a month left in the regular season) we win that game. It was the right call; we just didn't have the personnel with talent enough to execute it against good defense, so maybe the right team won.

Let's get one thing straight though: Anyone (and EVERYONE) who hates that call and insists it proves its author an idiot has a problem with Peyton :censored: Manning. He audibled to the play, as attested to by EVERY member of the Broncos organization ever asked about it. I have a lot of issues with our coaches. When teams phone in games (like last years playoff,) don't finish games (like Sunday) and commit tons of turnovers (like, well, pick a game,) that strongly indicates poor coaching; I don't agree with the idea coaches must be terrifying ogres, but they can't be every players pal either. Offensive playcalling though? PFM.

Frankly, I'd like to sit a few people here down and have Manning explain the concept of "running to establish the pass;" maybe they'd listen to HIM. But it won't work unless the team can run AND pass well. If they can't run, no one will fear the run, and everyone will send every player to stop the pass. If they can run but can't pass, no one will fear the pass, and everyone will send every player to stop the run. Last year we couldn't run, and fell flat on our faces when trying; last Sunday we couldn't pass, so getting NE to pull their coverage LBs for run stuffers just doomed Moreno.

The Colts playoff teams had more than just PFM, a pair of HoF WRs and a a receiving TE. They also had elite offensive linemen (despite the insistence earlier this year that losing Clady didn't matter because PFM won championships with scrub linemen) and versatile quality receivers like James and Addai. Everyone remembers them as among Mannings many receiving threats because Indy was pass-first team, but James had >1000 yds rushing all but two of his first nine seasons, and Addai was >1000 the first two years after he took over in Indy.

Turns out those pass-first Colts teams whose starting RBs got the job on receiving and pass blocking skills ran about as well as our ZBS run-first Broncos; they just weren't as famous for it. Put it this way: Had the Colts been UP instead of DOWN by 7 at the end of SB XL, there's no way Manning throws that pick to Porter; he hands off to Addai just like he handed off to Hillman in last years playoff game. I have criticisms of Manning, too, but the only thing wrong with his playcalling is that he can't throw in the cold, his interior linemen don't give his RBs much surge, Moreno's his only good RB. That's a roster, not playcalling, problem.

[LawDog]

Joel, go to the broncos site, click on multimedia, then watch the mic'd up video of Tamme in the game against NE, then come back and run that crap about Peyton not being able to throw in the cold. You're flat wrong, and it's become tiresome.

[tripp]

He was way too indecisive on the last punt. He's back there for a reason, and that's to be a safety net. Tony Carter was in no-man's land. Welker either had to decide way earlier to call everybody off or man up and catch the damn ball. I also remember at least two or three drops that were very costly.

Julian Edelman outplayed him by a wide margin.


That exact punt happened to us twice in that game where the ball took a bad bounce, went off a leg, and boom, FUMBLE! You can thank the wind for it, and poor player awareness.

Welker disappointed me giving Tony Carter grief when really, Welker had made the mistake. Welker, YOU are one of the veterans on the team, take responsibility! It does NOT help the confidence of young players, especially young players who do not play very often, when you point fingers at them. Man up, and take the blame and move on. People respect you more for it, and that's how you get that "C" on your jersey.

[capt. Jack]

He should have taken a 40 minute shower and missed the 2nd half of the game

Yeah, he should of !
I don't understand the lizards eating his legs one? That is kinda a dumb commercial.

[Broncolingus]

Welker made a bad play...

...of course, so did a whole shit load of other Bronco players in that second half.

It's a shame he had to even be out there in the first place...(hint)

:tsk:

[Ziggy]

That exact punt happened to us twice in that game where the ball took a bad bounce, went off a leg, and boom, FUMBLE! You can thank the wind for it, and poor player awareness.

Welker disappointed me giving Tony Carter grief when really, Welker had made the mistake. Welker, YOU are one of the veterans on the team, take responsibility! It does NOT help the confidence of young players, especially young players who do not play very often, when you point fingers at them. Man up, and take the blame and move on. People respect you more for it, and that's how you get that "C" on your jersey.


Reflexively, you want to blame Carter because he has to know the situation. But as NBC color commentator Cris Collinsworth pointed out at the time, the fault lied with Welker, who didn't warn Carter until it was too late. After the game, Welker took responsibility for the miscommunication.

"I just felt like there was a lot of traffic, it was a high ball, [I] basically didn't want to get into a situation where somebody's running into me or anything else, and ended up with a situation that I didn't want to happen in the first place," Welker said, via CSNNewEngland.com.

"I gotta do a better job of getting up there and getting those guys out of the way, and making sure it doesn't hit them. I gotta get to him earlier and tell him, and get those guys out of the way if I'm not going to make the catch. I was a little bit in between and you can't be that way."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24280244/wes-welker-i-have-to-do-a-better-job-on-botched-punt

#endrant