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Denver Native (Carol)
11-15-2013, 12:28 PM
The Kansas City Chiefs have a plan for Denver Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning on Sunday night.

Hoping to muffle a quarterback who's 9-1 in his career against K.C., the Chiefs' sack-happy defense aims to punish Manning from wire to wire.

"He's not very mobile, and people haven't gotten to him that much ... but when you get there, you've got to do some damage," inside linebacker Derrick Johnson said this week, per The Kansas City Star.

rest - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000281844/article/derrick-johnson-chiefs-must-pressure-peyton-manning

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-15-2013, 12:38 PM
"Do some damage when you get there" what the heck?

powderaddict
11-15-2013, 12:43 PM
I really hope we bury them by halftime. Seriously, do some damage?

Northman
11-15-2013, 01:02 PM
Dont be surprised if they come with some late hits. This is a rivalry and im sure they are pretty pissed they are not getting much love from the masses for their weak ass 9-0 record.

artie_dale
11-15-2013, 01:03 PM
I think it's about time Von Miller does some damage to Alex Smith. See how much HE likes to get hit.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-15-2013, 01:13 PM
"Do some damage when you get there" what the heck?

My thought also - hopefully someone within the NFL has informed the refs who will be doing the game to watch this close for anything illegal.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-15-2013, 01:22 PM
Chiefs at Broncos NBC — John Parry - head referee for game. Found the following on him - thru the first 7 games, Parry/crew had more penalties than any other crew - percentage per game 18.6

Inside Slant: John Parry the penalty leader

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/96230/inside-slant-john-parry-the-penalty-leader

Davii
11-15-2013, 01:25 PM
So, is he saying that given a chance to hit Manning he is going to attempt to injure him?

artie_dale
11-15-2013, 01:28 PM
Chiefs at Broncos NBC — John Parry - head referee for game. Found the following on him - thru the first 7 games, Parry/crew had more penalties than any other crew - percentage per game 18.6

Inside Slant: John Parry the penalty leader

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/96230/inside-slant-john-parry-the-penalty-leader


Ugh! Not one of "those" games. I hate a game where the Refs throw a flag every 90 seconds. Eliminates rhythm and momentum, unless it's the other team benefiting from it. Just officiate fairly.

slim
11-15-2013, 01:38 PM
I hope Derrick wears his seatbelt.

Broncolingus
11-15-2013, 01:40 PM
In spite of how good the KC pass rush is (and it is), Denver's OL needs to man-up this week and keep Peyton's jersey clean...

...the past several games haven't been all that great and they owe that to Peyton, not to mention (duh!) how much pounding can a 37 y/o with a serious back surgery take?

Agree with most, it would also be nice for Von to make his presence felt...not only this game, but esp. for the next three.

OL protection and defense front-seven play will be the determining factors in if Denver wins these next three...and if they want to keep going in the post season.

BigDaddyBronco
11-15-2013, 03:45 PM
I would dial up a steady diet of dive blocks for the 2nd level. Run the ball at them, bubble screens, etc. See how willing they are to rush Manning if they have been getting cut every other play.

CoachChaz
11-15-2013, 04:32 PM
If that comment holds the malicious intent it could be translated to hold, then I wouldnt mind seeing Moreno pull a Charles vs. Cushing move on Johnson

Northman
11-15-2013, 04:42 PM
I would dial up a steady diet of dive blocks for the 2nd level. Run the ball at them, bubble screens, etc. See how willing they are to rush Manning if they have been getting cut every other play.

"Cut the mother****** down!"

Joel
11-15-2013, 07:07 PM
I dunno, Johnson could just mean getting to the QB doesn't do any good if the ball's already gone or he manages to slip out of it to complete a pass anyway; Peyton doesn't do much of the latter, but he's infamous for doing the former. It really depends how literal the "damage" comment was, and only he knows the answer.

There's a big difference between trying to cause pain and trying to cause injury, hurt vs. harm, but unfortunately the distinction's too often lost on football players (and too many coaches) at every level. Making guys pay for going over the middle and think twice about it, worry so much about the big hit they KNOW is coming that they miss the ball, that's just football. Trying to take guys out of games though is just wrong, no matter how many coaches encourage and even teach it.


I would dial up a steady diet of dive blocks for the 2nd level. Run the ball at them, bubble screens, etc. See how willing they are to rush Manning if they have been getting cut every other play.
I definitely agree with the running, but for different reasons; I'd like to run off tackle straight at their DEs, who aren't great. I worry about the stretch play against their LBs, though counters might be very effective (if Beadles can keep his man out of our backfield for half a second after the snap.) I also worry about those bubble screens for the same reason, and fast LBs (especially in a 3-4, which has an extra one) can snuff those out, plus pulling interior linemen gives ILBs a free shot at the QB. Theoretically they should pull up once the ball is out, but it doesn't sound like that's guaranteed this week.

Ravage!!!
11-15-2013, 07:09 PM
So Joel, what do you think the key to winning this game is?

Joel
11-15-2013, 07:15 PM
Ugh! Not one of "those" games. I hate a game where the Refs throw a flag every 90 seconds. Eliminates rhythm and momentum, unless it's the other team benefiting from it. Just officiate fairly.
I WISH they'd do that, stop giving out first downs when Vickerson brushes past a QB at a walk and the guy flops, but ignoring guys hitting Manning below the knee, and flagging our DBs for even incidental (or no) contact but letting opposing DBs "bump and bump" 15 yds downfield. Illegal Contact can't be called within 5 yds of the line, but once the balls in the air—especially when going toward a receiver—PI is on the table ANYWHERE, and Defensive Holding is likewise illegal at ALL points on the field. If a LB took out a WRs legs as a screen pass was coming in they wouldn't say, "he was within 5 yds of the LoS."

It's unfortunately NOT uniform; I keep citing Seattles Legion of Boom because anyone who can wear that nickname that proudly in the era of the defenseless receiver penalty obviously isn't held to the same standard everyone else must observe. I don't care if they call it loose OR tight, provided they call it the SAME for EVERYONE. "Blow one down there, blow one down here" is fine, but not "blow a defensive call when they're on defense, blow an offensive call when they're on offense." Maybe the best thing we have going for us is the NFLs obsession with parity—even if it must be manufactured—all but guarantees an eventual KC loss.

Nomad
11-15-2013, 08:27 PM
So Joel, what do you think the key to winning this game is?

Score more points than the Chiefs and stop them from scoring!:lol:

Joel
11-15-2013, 09:43 PM
Score more points than the Chiefs and stop them from scoring!:lol:
Beat me to it; you must have an 8.3 IQ also. ;)

Joel
11-15-2013, 09:46 PM
So Joel, what do you think the key to winning this game is?
Should be obvious: They have 3 Pro Bowl LBs; we need 3 Pro Bowl receivers, so if Decker can't get that done Orange Julius must simply step up to the fill the void. Anyone who's watched the games can see that. :tongue:

NightTerror218
11-16-2013, 12:05 AM
Interesting how the chiefs are the only team to not see any major injuries this season. Now Johnson wants to injure manning. Hope karma kicks his ass.

MOtorboat
11-16-2013, 12:34 AM
Should be obvious: They have 3 Pro Bowl LBs; we need 3 Pro Bowl receivers, so if Decker can't get that done Orange Julius must simply step up to the fill the void. Anyone who's watched the games can see that. :tongue:

All three of which started in a 38-3 win for the Broncos last season. The year they made the Pro Bowl you speak of.

FanInAZ
11-16-2013, 04:48 AM
My 1st thought when I read "do damage" is the fact that Manning is tied for 4th in the league for most fumbles (7), and is in a 4 way tie for most fumbles lost (5).

http://www.footballdb.com/stats.html?mode=M&yr=2013&lg=NFL&sort=fumnum
http://www.footballdb.com/stats.html?mode=M&yr=2013&lg=NFL&sort=fumlost

Captain Speardog
11-16-2013, 04:55 AM
rest - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000281844/article/derrick-johnson-chiefs-must-pressure-peyton-manning

Peyton ain't scared.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2006119/sickthrowbro.gif

Joel
11-16-2013, 09:17 AM
My 1st thought when I read "do damage" is the fact that Manning is tied for 4th in the league for most fumbles (7), and is in a 4 way tie for most fumbles lost (5).

http://www.footballdb.com/stats.html?mode=M&yr=2013&lg=NFL&sort=fumnum
http://www.footballdb.com/stats.html?mode=M&yr=2013&lg=NFL&sort=fumlost
Quite plausible; it's impossible to be sure what he meant. He'll definitely have some 'splaining to do if they knock PFM out for the season (or FOREVER.)


All three of which started in a 38-3 win for the Broncos last season. The year they made the Pro Bowl you speak of.
We had Clady then. Not Julius Thomas though; are you SURE we won by 5 TDs? :confused:

MOtorboat
11-16-2013, 09:58 AM
We had Clady then. Not Julius Thomas though; are you SURE we won by 5 TDs? :confused:

Not that I expect you to remember the Broncos having such a successful game like that, but yes, Denver won 38-3 with ALL of those heralded linebackers on the other side of the ball, and only ONE pro bowl receiver.

Joel
11-16-2013, 11:19 AM
Not that I expect you to remember the Broncos having such a successful game like that, but yes, Denver won 38-3 with ALL of those heralded linebackers on the other side of the ball, and only ONE pro bowl receiver.
No, no, Julius Thomas didn't play: We MUST have lost; we're hopeless without him.

Ravage!!!
11-16-2013, 01:09 PM
No, no, Julius Thomas didn't play: We MUST have lost; we're hopeless without him.

Now you are being silly. That's like saying we could win 8 out of 9 games without our starting, franchise, LT and having to use our 3rd string center to block for Manning. Can't happen.

MOtorboat
11-16-2013, 01:21 PM
No, no, Julius Thomas didn't play: We MUST have lost; we're hopeless without him.

Can you imagine what this offense is going to do with him on the field?

Wow...52 points?

Joel
11-16-2013, 02:45 PM
Now you are being silly. That's like saying we could win 8 out of 9 games without our starting, franchise, LT and having to use our 3rd string center to block for Manning. Can't happen.
I'd be overjoyed if we won 8 or 9 games without our franchise LT; so far it's only 7. And Ramirez has proven a shockingly good C, far better than he was at RG. I don't think he's strong enough to deal with a guy like Poe, but hopefully Vasquez can, freeing Ramirez to take DeVito, with Beadles/Clark facing Johnson/Hali. They'll still need help with that though, and Franklin can't block Jackson AND Houston alone. Really, any time they rush >5 we'll have problems unless we have extra blockers; Moreno can't chip EVERYONE, and just chipping Pro Bowl blitzers won't be enough.

Yeah, we can and have beaten losing teams without our Pro Bowl LT, but aren't playing a losing team tomorrow.


Can you imagine what this offense is going to do with him on the field?

Wow...52 points?
Right, we'll match our season high against the NFLs #1 D; that's totally plausible. You realize Dallas (the team we scored 52 on) is 5th in PA? And Philly's 9th? They're both TOP 10 offensively, but only managed 16 pts against KC. Don't hold your breath waiting for Orange Julius tomorrow; I doubt we risk the season just to give one guy the same highlight reel we could easily (bur far more safely) give DT, Welker or Decker. It's great JT has almost twice the Dreesens got last year (in nearly twice as many games,) but that's not worth risking the season.

Not just the season: If Manning has a season-ending injury, do you REALLY think he'll come back for more next year? Is Orange Julius so good that doesn't matter?

MOtorboat
11-16-2013, 02:46 PM
I'd be overjoyed if we won 8 or 9 games without our franchise LT; so far it's only 7. And Ramirez has proven a shockingly good C, far better than he was at RG. I don't think he's strong enough to deal with a guy like Poe, but hopefully Vasquez can, freeing Ramirez to take DeVito, with Beadles/Clark facing Johnson/Hali. They'll still need help with that though, and Franklin can't block Jackson AND Houston alone. Really, any time they rush >5 we'll have problems unless we have extra blockers; Moreno can't chip EVERYONE, and just chipping Pro Bowl blitzers won't be enough.

Yeah, we can and have beaten losing teams without our Pro Bowl LT, but aren't playing a losing team tomorrow.


Right, we'll match our season high against the NFLs #1 D; that's totally plausible. You realize Dallas (the team we scored 52 on) is 5th in PA? And Philly's 9th? They're both TOP 10 offensively, but only managed 16 pts against KC. Don't hold your breath waiting for Orange Julius tomorrow; I doubt we risk the season just to give one guy the same highlight reel we could easily (bur far more safely) give DT, Welker or Decker. It's great JT has almost twice the Dreesens got last year (in nearly twice as many games,) but that's not worth risking the season.

Not just the season: If Manning has a season-ending injury, do you REALLY think he'll come back for more next year? Is Orange Julius so good that doesn't matter?

It's a good thing he doesn't have a season-ending injury, then, isn't it?

Joel
11-16-2013, 04:05 PM
It's a good thing he doesn't have a season-ending injury, then, isn't it?
Yes, yes it is; does this mean we've reached consensus?

VonDoom
11-16-2013, 05:19 PM
I guess we'll find out tomorrow, right? I'm kind of tired of talking about this game and just can't wait for it to start. One thing you said above, Joel, struck me though. You said "the NFL's #1 D." Do you really believe this? This is a good defense, probably a top five, but #1 is a stretch. I think Carolina has proven to have the best D in football right now, and I'd take at least Seattle over KC any day of the week. So let's say top five. Remember, we were a top five D last year and it didn't stop the Ravens (that offensive dynamo) from putting up 38 on us in the playoffs. The Chiefs aren't unbeatable, and I think they haven't seen anything like us yet. I honestly haven't seen much of their games this year besides what was on Red Zone, but the Bills gashed that defense to the tune of 240 yards rushing. With JEFF TUEL at QB. They're allowing 5 YPC on the ground and Manning is obviously a step above every other QB they've played this year. The pressure is on us to win, but I'd honestly be pretty surprised if we don't. At New England and then at KC? Yeah, those will be trickier. But we all knew this four game stretch would define our season and yet this seemed to be the most winnable game going in. I was more worried about slipping up against a good offense in SD than I am about this one.

Nomad
11-16-2013, 05:26 PM
I guess we'll find out tomorrow, right? I'm kind of tired of talking about this game and just can't wait for it to start.

Agreed! I haven't read much of the posts, but I agree, I'm excited for this game.

Joel
11-16-2013, 06:14 PM
It started with our first big division game (@SD,) and won't stop before Arrowhead, so I share your eagerness for the end. Yet few quick-ending permutations favor us, so I also prefer the division race lingers. If we or KC sweep it's effectively done. If we split but lose @NE it's PROBABLY done unless SD wins @KC at the same time—but we can't be sure till they finish the season hosting Indy and @SD. If we split and WIN @NE the division's in limbo, but we'll be OK if we win our last two AFCW games (only Oakland is on the road:) KC would have to beat Indy AND win THEIR last two AFCW games to stay ahead, else we'd win by SoV.

We must win 2 of our next 3; we can't count on Indy winning @Arrowhead, and even if they do a loss @NE would still leave us a game back unless we sweep KC.

As to "best D," I was speaking purely statistically, because numbers are the only precise metric possible. Of course, precision doesn't guarantee accuracy, and their run D IS (statistically) weak; sadly, our run game is (statistically) weak, even after starting the season with a month of blowouts inflating our rushing yards as much as our defensive passing yards (and as much as it deflated our defensive rushing yards.)

I think we can "do some damage" running straight at their big slow DEs, avoiding their NT and forcing their fast LBs to make plays in traffic and likely wear down in the process. That would take a lot of pressure off Manning; not only would "running to establish the pass" open up play action (rather than letting them ignore an empty threat if we can't run,) but it would deny them the option of just pinning their ears back and charging Manning. Unfortunately, that requires we block much better than we have lately, and our Gs mostly lack their DEs only assets (i.e. size and strength.)

This is a game for TEs, not only to provide push running, but to protect PFM passing. Their offense isn't good enough to beat us (or most people) without defensive turnovers, but they're good at forcing those and we're prone to surrendering them. If we keep them out of our backfield and shove them back in the running game, we'll avoid turnovers (as long as no one lets them force a Ronnie Hillman impression) and win. Our front four plays the run well enough we should only need our LBs to play cleanup against Charles (that's been the story so far) and keep Smith in the pocket, where he can't beat us.

That's why I'd rather see Dreesen and Tamme—even Green—than Orange Julius: We don't need 50 pts and 3 JT TDs to beat KC; we DO need solid blocking across the board to run, avoid turnovers and keep our QB healthy enough to finish the season. Dreesen and Tamme are both fine receivers, if not on par with JT, but, frankly, it wouldn't make a difference if they weren't: We need extra blockers, especially on the edge, and all but one of our TEs is a good blocker, while NONE of the linemen available to play on the left is. Easy call: The REAL teams division title, playoff homefield and SB are FAR more important than any fantasy team.

Put it this way: The last 5 years, I've gone pretty much everywhere in a cap proudly proclaiming our back-to-back SB wins (but it doesn't go with my suit, so I had to break down and get a real hat for the Julebord with the wifes lawyers last Christmas.) I've never seen a cap proudly proclaiming the Pats' 586 pt in their 18-D'OH! season; Eli escaping three tacklers and Tyrees helmet catch was that seasons signature moment.

Joel
11-16-2013, 06:23 PM
For what it's worth, since we can afford the luxury our players lack in looking ahead, NE's on their third NT of the year and (as, IIRC, Jaded pointed out) Vollmer broke his leg a few weaks ago, so we might have an edge against NE IF Clark's not a turnstile. Their tied for 8th with 29 sacks, but nearly half are from Chandler and Chris Jones on the right side, so if Clark has a decent day we should be alright, and their offensive strength is our defensive one: Running, whether NE's also 8th in total yards; they're 20th in passing yards (though Gronk's finally returning after missing most of the season.)

That game's very winnable, but first we msut take care of business at home.