Broncos Next Three Games (KC, NE, KC)

[Broncolingus]

The title for the clip was rest Manning, but I liked/agreed with the discussion with Saturday and Stink...

I would love for Denver to go 3-0 on this stretch, but not sure that's going to happen...

...will be almost as equally happy if Denver can make it 2-1 through that stretch.

I agree with Saturday that, while certainly not impossible, back-to-back wins AT KC and AT NE is going to be tough...

OL and defense will be the key down the stretch...

Thoughts?


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9971574/peyton-manning-misses-denver-broncos-practice

[Joel]

This is our season, and was the heart of my "every game is must win now" thread. If Manning's not beat up in the process, I'll be ecstatic to win 2 of the next 3, and really don't care if it's a split with KC and beating NE or just sweeping them with a NE loss, because either would make us the favorite to win the division. Were I betting man and willing to put money against my own team though, I would. 3-0 is out of the question, IMHO; @NE is never easy, and the Arrowhead game is always tough for us, even when we're great and they suck, which (contrary to popular belief) I don't believe is the case this year.

The only thing I'd add is that it was really more like we needed to win 3/4 last week; splitting with KC would make division record the tiebreak, and SD won't sweep them: We had to beat SD at least once (preferably twice) unless we sweep KC. Even then it could all go to Hell if we're STILL tied and KC beats Indy (who just lost to 38-8 to the Lambs,) because common opponents is next. Then conference, so we need to beat NE if it gets THAT far. This month's our season: The AFCs top 3 teams meet in our next 3 games; anyone who wins 2 is #1 seed, but anyone who LOSES 2 is default #5.

[wayninja]

I'm more worried about the NE game than the 2 queefs games, tbh.

[MOtorboat]

This is our season, and was the heart of my "every game is must win now" thread. If Manning's not beat up in the process, I'll be ecstatic to win 2 of the next 3, and really don't care if it's a split with KC and beating NE or just sweeping them with a NE loss, because either would make us the favorite to win the division. Were I betting man and willing to put money against my own team though, I would. 3-0 is out of the question, IMHO; @NE is never easy, and the Arrowhead game is always tough for us, even when we're great and they suck, which (contrary to popular belief) I don't believe is the case this year.

The only thing I'd add is that it was really more like we needed to win 3/4 last week; splitting with KC would make division record the tiebreak, and SD won't sweep them: We had to beat SD at least once (preferably twice) unless we sweep KC. Even then it could all go to Hell if we're STILL tied and KC beats Indy (who just lost to 38-8 to the Lambs,) because common opponents is next. Then conference, so we need to beat NE if it gets THAT far. This month's our season: The AFCs top 3 teams meet in our next 3 games; anyone who wins 2 is #1 seed, but anyone who LOSES 2 is default #5.

No it's not. Denver is already the No. 5. If they somehow managed to lose all three, they'd still be the top wild card team by two games, most likely still by three or four games. And I get accused of being dramatic.

[Shazam!]

If Denver is the 5 seed no way in Hell will they go to the Super Bowl having to play all road games (I hope I'm wrong but I can't believe it).

The Playoffs start NOW, as far as I'm concerned. They have to sweep KC to get to the 1 or 2 or 3 spot.

If they go in as a Wild Card team, they're finished.

[Joel]

No it's not. Denver is already the No. 5. If they somehow managed to lose all three, they'd still be the top wild card team by two games, most likely still by three or four games. And I get accused of being dramatic.
I searched diligently for anything there contradicting anything in the post to which it replied; no luck. Help me out here?

[MOtorboat]

I searched diligently for anything there contradicting anything in the post to which it replied; no luck. Help me out here?

Try the first sentence.

[Joel]

If Denver is the 5 seed no way in Hell will they go to the Super Bowl having to play all road games (I hope I'm wrong but I can't believe it).

The Playoffs start NOW, as far as I'm concerned. They have to sweep KC to get to the 1 or 2 or 3 spot.

If they go in as a Wild Card team, they're finished.
To be fair, there's a precedent in Denvers FIRST championship team: After a 13-3 clinched homefield advantage the previous year they tried to phone in their first playoff game and got stunned, then came back the next year for a 12-4 record only to finish behind the 13-3 Chiefs. So they paid the Jags back (though we hosted the WC game then,) beat KC @Arrowhead, then beat Pitt @Three Rivers before facing the defending (but soon former) champs. To make the parallel even more eerie: John Elway was 37 then, the same age as PFM now. :shocked:

Much as I love history though, I'm not THAT eager to try repeating it. Given Manning's still winless in postseason games <40° and the Super Bowl will be in a open air stadium almost certainly below freezing, that's all the postseason road game I want. Although I have a few concerns about Manning playing in Mile High come January, too; he didn't look great in his last playoff game.

[BroncoWave]

I don't even care if we beat NE as long as we sweep KC. Those are the two important ones. I really don't see a game we won't be a hefty favorite in after those 3.

[Magnificent Seven]

I'm more worried about the NE game than the 2 queefs games, tbh.

NE is NOTHING! Broncos will win all 3 games!

[Joel]

Try the first sentence.
This is our season? It kinda is; where we finish will almost certainly be set no later than 2.5 weeks from now. If KCs sweeps us they'll be impossible to catch; if we sweep them we'll be almost as hard to catch. Even if we split, we still need to beat NE or we'll be two games behind, and it's unlikely we make that up even if Indy beats them (no guarantee given how they played last week; they had Reggie Wayne and 4 turnovers against us, but KC has the least GIVEAWAYS as well as the most takeaways.) We need 2 of the next 3 or we're the #5 seed, unless we lose them all, have to start Osweiler and he can't even win 2 of our last 4.

Comes down to whether one thinks our beat up line and QB can win 3 road games and the SB, I guess. We're a lock to make the playoffs; the question is what happens then....

[BroncoWave]

We're a lock to make the playoffs; the question is what happens then....

That will be the question whether we are the 1 seed or 5 seed. The playoffs are a complete crapshoot.

[MOtorboat]

This is our season? It kinda is; where we finish will almost certainly be set no later than 2.5 weeks from now. If KCs sweeps us they'll be impossible to catch; if we sweep them we'll be almost as hard to catch. Even if we split, we still need to beat NE or we'll be two games behind, and it's unlikely we make that up even if Indy beats them (no guarantee given how they played last week; they had Reggie Wayne and 4 turnovers against us, but KC has the least GIVEAWAYS as well as the most takeaways.) We need 2 of the next 3 or we're the #5 seed, unless we lose them all, have to start Osweiler and he can't even win 2 of our last 4.

Comes down to whether one thinks our beat up line and QB can win 3 road games and the SB, I guess. We're a lock to make the playoffs; the question is what happens then....

Why even tune in Sunday, right?

[BroncoWave]

Why even tune in Sunday, right?

Hey, if we lose at least we know now not to even bother watching the rest of the season since it will officially be over.

[MOtorboat]

Hey, if we lose at least we know now not to even bother watching the rest of the season since it will officially be over.

It already is. Team can't block.

[BroncoWave]

It already is. Team can't block.

And to think something as simple as benching Julius Thomas could solve all of that.

[Joel]

Hey, if we lose at least we know now not to even bother watching the rest of the season since it will officially be over.
Not entirely true; we could still be alright if we won @NE and salvaged the split. It would be a lot harder. Thanks to one of Carols links I just watched Mannings old C and Schlereth discuss just how hard it would be.


It already is. Team can't block.
Is this one of those "have you watched the games?!" moments? ;)


And to think something as simple as benching Julius Thomas could solve all of that.
We've got a number of poor blockers I'd bench in a heartbeat if a better option existed; sadly none do (though at this point it's getting hard to argue it's not worth TRYING to see if Justice, a former starter who's shut down Julius Peppers, can be less ineffective than Clark.) Unfortunately, the ONE person who blocks far worse than EVERYONE else at his position is Julius Thomas. Yet even more sadly, our 2 Pro Bowl WRs, quality #2, receiving back and a TE who had 5 TDs last year just aren't enough offense without the guy we didn't have for our 13 wins last year. Only ONE guy's indispensable to our offense, and it ain't Orange Julius.

[MOtorboat]

Is this one of those "have you watched the games?!" moments? ;)

For you? Probably.

[Joel]

For you? Probably.
Perhaps a video review is in order then:

@Indy http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000268279/article/robert-mathis-stripsack-for-a-safety-is-best-of-week-7
Washington http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000270565/Manning-fumble-recovered-by-Orakpo
@SD http://www.chargers.com/multimedia/videos/Williams-Strip-Sacks-Manning/61b848de-de61-4b25-b38d-dce882417991

Julius Thomas had 11 catches for 166 yds and 2 TDs in those games; unfortunately, those 3 plays alone handed our opponents 2 TDs and a safety (plus Indy got a third TD on their ensuing possession; 9 pts in our 6 pt loss.) Pay special attention to the Week 7 highlight reel capped by Mathis' strip-sack-safety: #3 is Tamba Hali ending a Texans comeback with a strip-sack Derrick Johnson recovered at Houstons 1.

[MOtorboat]

Perhaps a video review is in order then:

@Indy http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000268279/article/robert-mathis-stripsack-for-a-safety-is-best-of-week-7
Washington http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000270565/Manning-fumble-recovered-by-Orakpo
@SD http://www.chargers.com/multimedia/videos/Williams-Strip-Sacks-Manning/61b848de-de61-4b25-b38d-dce882417991

Julius Thomas had 11 catches for 166 yds and 2 TDs in those games; unfortunately, those 3 plays alone handed our opponents 2 TDs and a safety (plus Indy got a third TD on their ensuing possession; 9 pts in our 6 pt loss.) Pay special attention to the Week 7 highlight reel capped by Mathis' strip-sack-safety: #3 is Tamba Hali ending a Texans comeback with a strip-sack Derrick Johnson recovered at Houstons 1.

Serious questions.

How does a tight end lined up on the right stop a defensive end lined up on the left?

How does a tight end lined up on the right stop a defensive tackle lined up over the center?

[MOtorboat]

For the record, Denver is still 8-1. Not 6-3 as Joel seems to be suggesting.

[MOtorboat]

FACT: Kansas City has allowed twice as many sacks as Denver.

I should find video of all 26 sacks....

[Army Bronco]

For you? Probably.
Perhaps a video review is in order then:

@Indy http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000268279/article/robert-mathis-stripsack-for-a-safety-is-best-of-week-7
Washington http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000270565/Manning-fumble-recovered-by-Orakpo
@SD http://www.chargers.com/multimedia/videos/Williams-Strip-Sacks-Manning/61b848de-de61-4b25-b38d-dce882417991

Julius Thomas had 11 catches for 166 yds and 2 TDs in those games; unfortunately, those 3 plays alone handed our opponents 2 TDs and a safety (plus Indy got a third TD on their ensuing possession; 9 pts in our 6 pt loss.) Pay special attention to the Week 7 highlight reel capped by Mathis' strip-sack-safety: #3 is Tamba Hali ending a Texans comeback with a strip-sack Derrick Johnson recovered at Houstons 1. Don't be so negative. Every game has its own characteristics. We could come out and not give a single sack or 20. We could put up 50 points or 28. That's what makes it fun.

[Joel]

Serious questions.

How does a tight end lined up on the right stop a defensive end lined up on the left?

How does a tight end lined up on the right stop a defensive tackle lined up over the center?
Serious answers: He can line up on the left as easily as the right (or go in motion) and, since it's PFMs blindside and Franklin's a much better blocker than Clark, should. It won't help with rushers up the middle, no, but if you saw Em Diggys thread diagramming KC rushing a lineman between Beadles and Clark to create opportunities for a LB to go around the latter, well, that's the kind of thing TEs were (re)invented to stop.

If it were Franklin it would be different; PFM can see a missed block over there and compensate with a quick throw, either to a hot read or just the bench. But when QBs are blindsided bad things happen, and they've happened to us a LOT the last month. Clark needs help; if JT can provide it, fine, but there's little evidence so far: Clark wasn't the only one who blew a block that cost us the ball and points vs. Indy.

Serious problem: How does a TE on the right stop a DE on the right shoving him into the QB, grabbing his arm and forcing an Int? If you find out, email to JThomas@I_told_my_colllege_coach_Im_a_WR.com (JThomas@I_told_my_colllege_coach_Im_a_WR.net)—FAS T!

[MOtorboat]

Don't be so negative. Every game has its own characteristics. We could come out and not give a single sack or 20. We could put up 50 points or 28. That's what makes it fun.

It's only fun for Joel when Manning fails. That's why he's so upset right now.

[Joel]

For the record, Denver is still 8-1. Not 6-3 as Joel seems to be suggesting.
Strip-sacks don't matter as long as we win (and never mind one COST us a win)? Tell that to Mannings ankles.


FACT: Kansas City has allowed twice as many sacks as Denver.

I should find video of all 26 sacks....
Yet only 8 turnovers, least in the NFL. Their offense is pitiful, but that's not the point, because it's not what wins them games and not the reason our season has both ankles taped.


It's only fun for Joel when Manning fails. That's why he's so upset right now.
Personalizing it again/still. Yet I'M not the one shrugging off my teams limping QB because without a guy who rode the bench all of the last 2 years our only offensive threats would be two Pro Bowl WRs (including the current AFC Offensive Player of the Week,) a solid #2, a multi-threat RB and a pair of TEs who CAN block and had 5 and 2 TDs last year. Apparently we're paying the wrong guy $20 million/year.

[MOtorboat]

not the reason our season has both ankles taped.

Neither is the tight end not staying into block.

[Pudge]

I really am worried about about turnovers but Kansas's offense can't score like we can. I think they hold us to our lowest season total but we still win by at least seven

[Joel]

Don't be so negative. Every game has its own characteristics. We could come out and not give a single sack or 20. We could put up 50 points or 28. That's what makes it fun.
Blowout wins are fun, and close wins fun after the fact. Last weeks game was so fun for Fox he reportedly had to turn it off, which, around the end of the third quarter, I couldn't help wondering if he might need to do.

[Joel]

Neither is the tight end not staying into block.
The current starting TE? No; he blocks about as well when he stays in as when he goes out for a pass. Those strip-sacks didn't come up the middle, and neither did that forced Int. The one where Thomas stayed in to block yet FAILED? He had a TD in that game, so I guess that makes up for the FG he caused (thank goodness our D pushed Indy back 5 yds when a couple first downs would've put them in the end zone.)

[MOtorboat]

The current starting TE? No; he blocks about as well when he stays in as when he goes out for a pass. Those strip-sacks didn't come up the middle, and neither did that forced Int. The one where Thomas stayed in to block yet FAILED? He had a TD in that game, so I guess that makes up for the FG he caused (thank goodness our D pushed Indy back 5 yds when a couple first downs would've put them in the end zone.)

It just continues to baffle me how you shit on the best players on the team.

I mean it truly baffles me.

Here are your usual targets: Manning, Miller, Bailey, now Julius Thomas. Think about that. Why do you always attack the best players on the team? It's non-sensical and utterly ridiculous.

Not to mention the baffling logic of "offensive line struggles - blame tight end."

[Joel]

It just continues to baffle me how you shit on the best players on the team.

I mean it truly baffles me.

Here are your usual targets: Manning, Miller, Bailey, now Julius Thomas. Think about that. Why do you always attack the best players on the team? It's non-sensical and utterly ridiculous.
Try reading what I write instead of what you think I write, because they're clearly not the same. Saying Miller's too good to play Sam isn't crapping on him. Saying Champ's experience, play recognition, anticipation, rapid reaction and sure tackling would make him a far better safety than Moore now that he's slowing down isn't crapping on him either. Saying Manning's been one-and-done in eight playoff seasons (though, yes, his awful D "helped") isn't crapping on him either. Saying Julius Thomas can't block, well, that's crapping on him a little, yeah, but it has the redeeming factor of being true.

Am I bashing Demaryius? Decker? Vasquez? Woodyard? DRC? I've done nothing but GUSH about Chris Harris for going on three years.


Not to mention the baffling logic of "offensive line struggles - blame tight end."
I unhesitatingly blame our weak linemen for being just that; I didn't link three videos of three different guys blowing by Clark like he wasn't there to praise the guy. Beadles is usually a good pass blocker, and bowls over safeties half his size on screens, but AT THE LINE he routinely lets guys through to tackle Moreno and Co. It's not all bad; Ramirez is a huge improvement over Walton (though I'm dubious of how well he can push back Dontari Poe,) Vasquez was a great FA pickup (though, like Beadles and Kuper, pass blocks better than he run blocks) and Franklin's improved each of the last two years (but could still pass block better.)

I'm not blaming our offensive lines problems on one TE, I'm blaming HIS well established blocking problem on him. If Clady were still out there guarding Mannings blindside and pushing piles it wouldn't matter any more than when we were giving up just ONE sack per game, Manning went the first month of the season without a pick and Moreno averaged 5.1 yds per carry. We had the luxury of a great receiving TE who couldn't block then. Clady's gone till 2014 though; RIGHT NOW—today—our season's hobbling around on two taped ankles, getting multiple MRIs and skipping practices while Moreno averages 3.3 yds per carry.

How do YOU propose we fix that? Trade deadline's past; the only way we add a lineman is with another teams castoff or by coaxing someone out of retirement (which we actually already did with Koppen in preseason; unfortunately he had a season-ending injury almost immediately.) We either replace Clark with Justice and hope he's MUCH better, or we start TEs who can block as well as catch.

[Pudge]

I think we need a Mo verses the rest of the board thread where he picks fights with everyone's viewpoints. It would probably be full of Zam and Joel posts but I would enjoy it

[Joel]

Zam's been AWOL a while though, hasn't he?

[Pudge]

Yeah his suspension hasn't been up too long but i think he quit on us

[Pudge]

Yeah he had a 45 day suspension in 9/15 so it should have been up around a couple weeks ago

[Dzone]

I enjoyed some of Zams stuff...
He might have hired an attorney, and is going to claim emotional trauma

[Joel]

Yeah his suspension hasn't been up too long but i think he quit on us
Ah, I missed his suspension; now I'm afraid to ask more....

[wayninja]

Try reading what I write instead of what you think I write, because they're clearly not the same. Saying Miller's too good to play Sam isn't crapping on him. Saying Champ's experience, play recognition, anticipation, rapid reaction and sure tackling would make him a far better safety than Moore now that he's slowing down isn't crapping on him either. Saying Manning's been one-and-done in eight playoff seasons (though, yes, his awful D "helped") isn't crapping on him either. Saying Julius Thomas can't block, well, that's crapping on him a little, yeah, but it has the redeeming factor of being true.

Am I bashing Demaryius? Decker? Vasquez? Woodyard? DRC? I've done nothing but GUSH about Chris Harris for going on three years.


I unhesitatingly blame our weak linemen for being just that; I didn't link three videos of three different guys blowing by Clark like he wasn't there to praise the guy. Beadles is usually a good pass blocker, and bowls over safeties half his size on screens, but AT THE LINE he routinely lets guys through to tackle Moreno and Co. It's not all bad; Ramirez is a huge improvement over Walton (though I'm dubious of how well he can push back Dontari Poe,) Vasquez was a great FA pickup (though, like Beadles and Kuper, pass blocks better than he run blocks) and Franklin's improved each of the last two years (but could still pass block better.)

I'm not blaming our offensive lines problems on one TE, I'm blaming HIS well established blocking problem on him. If Clady were still out there guarding Mannings blindside and pushing piles it wouldn't matter any more than when we were giving up just ONE sack per game, Manning went the first month of the season without a pick and Moreno averaged 5.1 yds per carry. We had the luxury of a great receiving TE who couldn't block then. Clady's gone till 2014 though; RIGHT NOW—today—our season's hobbling around on two taped ankles, getting multiple MRIs and skipping practices while Moreno averages 3.3 yds per carry.

How do YOU propose we fix that? Trade deadline's past; the only way we add a lineman is with another teams castoff or by coaxing someone out of retirement (which we actually already did with Koppen in preseason; unfortunately he had a season-ending injury almost immediately.) We either replace Clark with Justice and hope he's MUCH better, or we start TEs who can block as well as catch.


Some may disagree with you Joel, but I find your almost unwaveringly robotic persistence refreshing.

[PatriotsGuy]

I'm currently worried about the Panthers on Monday night.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'm currently worried about the Panthers on Monday night.

I would be too...that defense is nasty.

[Ravage!!!]

If Denver is the 5 seed no way in Hell will they go to the Super Bowl having to play all road games (I hope I'm wrong but I can't believe it).

The Playoffs start NOW, as far as I'm concerned. They have to sweep KC to get to the 1 or 2 or 3 spot.

If they go in as a Wild Card team, they're finished.

The SUper Bowl Manning won, he was a Wildcard seed. The first Super Bowl Elway won, we were a Wildcard seed.

You have GOT to be the most negatively dramatic poster I've seen.

[turftoad]

These three games hinge on the O line. Clarke hasn't been very good at all. He needs to step it up (if he can) man I miss Clady right now.

[Nomad]

Sunday afternoon/evening can't get here soon enough.

[Captain Speardog]

No it's not. Denver is already the No. 5. If they somehow managed to lose all three, they'd still be the top wild card team by two games, most likely still by three or four games. And I get accused of being dramatic.

I agree, the most important thing is for Denver to get healthy not the number 1 seed.

[NightTerror218]

Only thing I worry about is Manning getting hit by KC's pass rush too much? KC has bad offense and NE has no defense, and WR who lead league is drops

[Dzone]

Ya, Im worried about Manning getting pounded by the chiefs on every play and the refs not calling it. He will break down over time if he keeps getting hit. There are a lot of games left...possibly 11 more games including the super bowl.

[Joel]

Some may disagree with you Joel, but I find your almost unwaveringly robotic persistence refreshing.
Until/unless there's something to alter a position taken on a mountain of previous data it can't change. I was surprised but convinced our run and pass blocking was much improved the first month, but once we lost our starting tackles the Swiss cheese line returned, and since Clady's gone for the year that won't change at LT. The best we can hope is that none of our GUARDS go out, else it's The Bionic Kuper or a scrub C.


Ya, Im worried about Manning getting pounded by the chiefs on every play and the refs not calling it. He will break down over time if he keeps getting hit. There are a lot of games left...possibly 11 more games including the super bowl.
If we don't get better protection and the refs don't call hits on PFM like they do on RGIII and Luck we won't have to worry about those 11 games, because Manning won't last long enough to get us to a SB.

[Joel]

Only thing I worry about is Manning getting hit by KC's pass rush too much? KC has bad offense and NE has no defense, and WR who lead league is drops
New Englands D is much better this year, though they've been banged up recently (and a season ending injury to the anchor of their 3-4 definitely hurt.) There's a reason their only two losses are an OT division game and a road game against division-leading Cincy. Their receivers suck and their RBs are mediocre, but so far it hasn't mattered much, because they're 6th in points allowed. They ARE 26th in run D and missing Wilfork though, and KC's 24th; these next three games are an opportunity for Moreno, Ball, Anderson or SOME RB to step up—IF we block for them.

[Broncolingus]

Only thing I worry about is Manning getting hit by KC's pass rush too much? KC has bad offense and NE has no defense, and WR who lead league is drops

Totally agree...pass protection must improve if 1) Denver is going to be successful against playoff caliber teams, and 2) Denver wants Manning in one-piece the rest of the season.

[Dzone]

Chiefs would like to knock Manning out of the game. They are already saying they intend to pound the crap out of him

[Joel]

Totally agree...pass protection must improve if 1) Denver is going to be successful against playoff caliber teams, and 2) Denver wants Manning in one-piece the rest of the season.
Blocking in general. If we could (successfully) run more we could pass less, meaning less risk to PFM and less teams pinning their ears back and charging him like they're up by 20 at the end of the fourth quarter. And when WE'RE nursing a late lead we won't have to punt and give opponents a shot at a Hail Mary (like our LAST playoff game) or pass for first downs while defenders dive at PFMs sore ankles (like last WEEK.)

One dimenional teams don't win SBs. Even Flacco had to find a way to at least briefly be more than useless before Baltimore could win a title, even with the NFL handing Stabby McGee a going away Ring.

[Shazam!]

The Broncos got a home game in 97 as the 4 Seed, that home game is invaluable. They'd have to go on the road throughout this time as the 5, which is difficult.

[Captain Speardog]

Ya, Im worried about Manning getting pounded by the chiefs on every play and the refs not calling it. He will break down over time if he keeps getting hit. There are a lot of games left...possibly 11 more games including the super bowl.

Peyton has a plan.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2006423/lolpeyton.gif