Broncos fans' anger is misplaced

[TXBRONC]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/09/05/broncos-fans-anger-is-misplaced

Posted Sept. 05, 2009 @ 8:34 p.m.
By Dan Parr
Things haven't exactly gone well for the Broncos over the past nine months, and some fans are only making the situation uglier.

It has been bad recently in Detroit, as even a sliver of success has eluded the Lions, and in Oakland, the Raiders have become the league's laughingstock, but Denver is now in the conversation with those two cities as home to the league's most miserable fans.

Their frustration is understandable. The Broncos collapsed late last season, blowing a three-game lead in the AFC West in the final three weeks of the season and missing the playoffs, which cost Mike Shanahan his job. Then rookie head coach Josh McDaniels helped fuel a feud that led to the trade of the team's 26-year-old Pro Bowl QB Jay Cutler to Chicago in April. Recently, WR Brandon Marshall has taken to clowning around in practice, angering his teammates and McDaniels, who suspended the star wideout until Sept. 6.

The Denver faithful have several potential targets for their vitriol, yet they seem to be directing much of it at Cutler, who returned to Mile High for a preseason game Aug. 30.

A recent YouTube video showed a 10-year-old Broncos fan burning his Cutler jersey. After failing to get a permit to burn jerseys, some fans gathered at a bar the night before the Broncos-Bears preseason matchup to flush Cutler jerseys down a toilet painted orange and blue. For those who were interested in some old-school forms of humiliation, there was also a can of tar used to tar and feather the jerseys. There was a sander and a weed whacker available to desecrate the No. 6 jersey as well, according to the Denver Post.

"We're tired of all the spoiled brat, punk sports figures," said one fan at the event, per the Post. "(Marshall will) be the next one."

I don't think this group of fans, which has seemingly lost all common sense, is indicative of the behavior of the entire Broncos fan base, but this extreme faction is giving them all a bad name.

They're certainly not hurting Cutler's feelings by doing this. He doesn't care. He won, he got what he wanted — a ticket out of town — and will be rewarded with a lucrative contract extension by the Bears' brass in the not-too-distant future.

When he was stopped by police awhile back, Marshall stated that he hated Denver, so the feeling is mutual.

Fans can boo Cutler and Marshall and employ other tactics that stoop to an immature level, but they should focus on those two less and start to direct their outrage at the people who most deserve it — owner Pat Bowlen and McDaniels.

Maybe Bowlen, who made an impassioned "the buck stops here" speech at the press conference announcing Shanahan's firing, should be taking the blame for the messy situation that has developed on his watch. If fans really want to inspire change for the better, directing their anger at those in power, not former quarterbacks and disgruntled receivers, would have a much more resounding impact.

We might be on the brink of a new season, with hope springing eternal for NFL fans around the country, but don't look for those signs of optimism from the downers in Denver. They're still not over the breakup with Jay Cutler.

[Ravage!!!]

I STILL can't believe he turned around and gave the 'shanahan power' to our new coach. I was initially excited about the McDaniels hiring.... until I then saw the firing of those in office and the hiring of this lame-duck GM..... thus giving McDaniels all the reigns. An EXTREMELY foolish move by Bowlen, and one that has me very discontent and disappointed in our owner.

[chris_rabz]

Burning Cutler jerseys, things really that bad huh? I daren't get a jersey with a name on the back now incase he leaves! :P Wonder how things will seem if in a few weeks time Denver are 4-1 and Chicago sit 1-4?

[claymore]

Hopefully all this will be worth it in the end. But I doubt it. I feel Bowlen deserves more blame than he is getting as well.

But its hard to hate grandpa when he marries a young scarleton that steals your inheritence.

[Northman]

Sorry Dan, your a complete idiot. A recent poll was done to see where the fans stood with the offseason transactions and 89% were unhappy about the Cutler trade and threw their anger on McDaniels and Bowlen. Do some research Dan, it helps keeping the mud off your face.

[Ravage!!!]

Burning Cutler jerseys, things really that bad huh? I daren't get a jersey with a name on the back now incase he leaves! :P Wonder how things will seem if in a few weeks time Denver are 4-1 and Chicago sit 1-4?

I can answer that question. I STILL would be pissed off! I don't care what the record is at the time, there is NO WAY IN HELL this team is better off with a lame-duck talent like Orton over a MUCH superior talent in Cutler..... period.

Some around here will try to ignore that fact.

But...... I'm pretty confident that won't be the case that we won't ahve this 4-1 to 1-4 dilemma

[claymore]

I STILL can't believe he turned around and gave the 'shanahan power' to our new coach. I was initially excited about the McDaniels hiring.... until I then saw the firing of those in office and the hiring of this lame-duck GM..... thus giving McDaniels all the reigns. An EXTREMELY foolish move by Bowlen, and one that has me very discontent and disappointed in our owner.

Its not just Cutler... Its the goodmans, Leach, Cutler, and Marshall. There are many things that sting.

Proof is in the puddin. I havent seen one thing that makes me excited, or trust JMCD.

Winning will do that, I will drink the koolaid if we win, because in the end, thats all I really care about.

[shank]

Sorry Dan, your a complete idiot. A recent poll was done to see where the fans stood with the offseason transactions and 89% were unhappy about the Cutler trade and threw their anger on McDaniels and Bowlen. Do some research Dan, it helps keeping the mud off your face.

i agree. most fans are directing their anger at broncos managment for the situation. there is a small chunk of people who blame, and truly hate cutler now. then there is a larger chunk of the jersey-burners who are doing it out of therapuetic frustration... a way of moving on without jay.

and marshall deserves the wrath of the fans and is still getting off very easy because of how talented he is. i know i'm not as mad at him as i should be :coffee:

[Ravage!!!]

Sorry Dan, your a complete idiot. A recent poll was done to see where the fans stood with the offseason transactions and 89% were unhappy about the Cutler trade and threw their anger on McDaniels and Bowlen. Do some research Dan, it helps keeping the mud off your face.

So the people weren't burning jersey's, flushing them, tar-n-feathering them and wearing jersey's to the pre-season games with his name crossed out and "Cutler's Gay" on the back??? :confused:

[Dortoh]

Its not just Cutler... Its the goodmans, Leach, Cutler, and Marshall. There are many things that sting.

Proof is in the puddin. I havent seen one thing that makes me excited, or trust JMCD.

Winning will do that, I will drink the koolaid if we win, because in the end, thats all I really care about.

If Moreno becomes a stud it will go a long way for me. Also if our mini-nickel corner contributes that would help.

[TXBRONC]

So the people weren't burning jersey's, flushing them, tar-n-feathering them and wearing jersey's to the pre-season games with his name crossed out and "Cutler's Gay" on the back??? :confused:

There were several fans that went to the Bears game that were wearing diapers.

[claymore]

If Moreno becomes a stud it will go a long way for me. Also if our mini-nickel corner contributes that would help.

I love the Moreno pick. I was for it before shanny was fired.

JMCD has set himself up in so many situations (to include the smith pick/trade) where I just cannot believe its genius.

I have yet to see one thing work out. He has made unheard of risky moves this offseason. I want to see one of those things pay off.

[claymore]

There were several fans that went to the Bears game that were wearing diapers.

Guys like Topscribe werent trying to make a statement though. :shocked:

[Dortoh]

I love the Moreno pick. I was for it before shanny was fired.

JMCD has set himself up in so many situations (to include the smith pick/trade) where I just cannot believe its genius.

I have yet to see one thing work out. He has made unheard of risky moves this offseason. I want to see one of those things pay off.

Ya, I'm good with the Moreno pick (Ayers I am really worried about) I'm just clinging to the idea that maybe his draft will help ease some of my concerns with him as a HC.

I do think his offensive play calling will be solid so if his draft day ability proves to be good then we just need him to learn how to handle the locker room. Maybe he turns out to be a good coach.......time will tell all

[MasterShake]

I'm honestly not angry or anything anymore. Kinda nervous, kinda excited, but not angry. I may or may not be in about 6 weeks but for right now I'm just happy to have Broncos football back! Hope we don't stink it up too much, but no matter what I'm interested to see how this all plays out. I'm not expecting great things, but I am gonna watch the games a lot closer than I have the last few years, if anything to learn all the new names!

[Northman]

So the people weren't burning jersey's, flushing them, tar-n-feathering them and wearing jersey's to the pre-season games with his name crossed out and "Cutler's Gay" on the back??? :confused:


Was that 89% of the fanbase? Um, no.

[TXBRONC]

Guys like Topscribe werent trying to make a statement though. :shocked:

Well that all Depends on his well he can hold his water. :rofl:

[Northman]

I'm honestly not angry or anything anymore. Kinda nervous, kinda excited, but not angry. I may or may not be in about 6 weeks but for right now I'm just happy to have Broncos football back! Hope we don't stink it up too much, but no matter what I'm interested to see how this all plays out. I'm not expecting great things, but I am gonna watch the games a lot closer than I have the last few years, if anything to learn all the new names!

Yea, its funny how everytime i think we on this board have turned the corner there is just one more person who wants to stir the pot again. This was not only the most uninformed article its totally pointless at this stage of the season. This has Broken12 written all over it.

[EastCoastBronco]

I love the Moreno pick. I was for it before shanny was fired.

JMCD has set himself up in so many situations (to include the smith pick/trade) where I just cannot believe its genius.

I have yet to see one thing work out. He has made unheard of risky moves this offseason. I want to see one of those things pay off.

You might want to at least wait until mid season before you say that shit ain't paying off. This ain't the land of chocolate and McDaniels isn't a goddamn magician. He's doing what he thinks is best to get this team out of the pathetic pool of mediocrity it has been neck deep in for the past 5 years.
Because I coached a football team for 6 years and realize that programs don't magically bloom overnight, I'm giving the guy a couple of years before I pass judgement. You should at least give him till game 8.

[Dortoh]

You might want to at least wait until mid season before you say that shit ain't paying off. This ain't the land of chocolate and McDaniels isn't a goddamn magician. He's doing what he thinks is best to get this team out of the pathetic pool of mediocrity it has been neck deep in for the past 5 years.
I'm giving the guy a couple of years before I pass judgement but you should at least give him till game 8.

I can see your point but this is where we talk about the Broncos and our feelings about current issues.

[T.K.O.]

There were several fans that went to the Bears game that were wearing diapers.

i gotta admit thats pretty funny......:lol:

[Northman]

I can see your point but this is where we talk about the Broncos and our feelings about current issues.

I wouldnt say this is a current issue.

[Dortoh]

I wouldnt say this is a current issue.

This offseasons moves are not current? Or do you mean dicussing if McD is going to pan out? That would make sense I guess.

[Northman]

This offseasons moves are not current? Or do you mean dicussing if McD is going to pan out? That would make sense I guess.

Both. Jay is gone, this article is full of inaccuracies to boot yet one with an agenda would use it to bait others on this board because he has nothing better to do. Like i said before, the fact that some of you cant move on from it is just flat out embarrassing. Same with the idiots who dressed in diapers and burned his jersey.

[EastCoastBronco]

I can see your point but this is where we talk about the Broncos and our feelings about current issues.

I understand that but it's jumping the damn gun quite a bit to say that anything McDaniels has done isn't paying off. Clay is a serious McDaniels hater and the arguments he uses were old 4 months ago. If they were current I wouldn't be ranting...

[TXBRONC]

You might want to at least wait until mid season before you say that shit ain't paying off. This ain't the land of chocolate and McDaniels isn't a goddamn magician. He's doing what he thinks is best to get this team out of the pathetic pool of mediocrity it has been neck deep in for the past 5 years.
Because I coached a football team for 6 years and realize that programs don't magically bloom overnight, I'm giving the guy a couple of years before I pass judgement. You should at least give him till game 8.

McDaniels is going to get at least three years to prove himself no matter how anyone feels.

One thing keep in minds McDaniels on more than one occassion has said he can win right now.

[Dortoh]

Both. Jay is gone, this article is full of inaccuracies to boot yet one with an agenda would use it to bait others on this board because he has nothing better to do. Like i said before, the fact that some of you cant move on from it is just flat out embarrassing. Same with the idiots who dressed in diapers and burned his jersey.

IMO its not about Jay its about the pattern of whoops and questionable actions. Jay can kiss my ass but he is part of McD's current history. Only time will tell and as a fan I hope McD is the next HOF coach I guess we shall see.

[BroncoSojia]

I STILL can't believe he turned around and gave the 'shanahan power' to our new coach. I was initially excited about the McDaniels hiring.... until I then saw the firing of those in office and the hiring of this lame-duck GM..... thus giving McDaniels all the reigns. An EXTREMELY foolish move by Bowlen, and one that has me very discontent and disappointed in our owner.

Pretty much agree with everything you just said

You would think after a decade of bad drafts and horrible free agents bust he'd hire a real GM or increase the roles of the two we already had.

But no, he fires the two we had and puts a 32 year old rookie HC, who's had no prior experience with player personnel, in charge of the entire football team, similar to the role Shanahan had when he was here.

You can tell by our offseason that was a HUGE mistake, and it may have set us back by a few years.

[Dortoh]

I understand that but it's jumping the damn gun quite a bit to say that anything McDaniels has done isn't paying off. Clay is a serious McDaniels hater and the arguments he uses were old 4 months ago. If they were current I wouldn't be ranting...

Meh I guess I dont see it as ranting as much as having a personal opinon about what McD has done todate. Nothing wrong with that IMO. For everyone being critical of McD there is someone crowning a rookie HC who has yet to prove anything in that capacity.

Then again there is a reason we are all here talking about the Broncos and not at Dove valley sitting down with McD talking stratagy over a couple of brandys :laugh:

[TXBRONC]

Both. Jay is gone, this article is full of inaccuracies to boot yet one with an agenda would use it to bait others on this board because he has nothing better to do. Like i said before, the fact that some of you cant move on from it is just flat out embarrassing. Same with the idiots who dressed in diapers and burned his jersey.

I'm not trying bait others into anything. I have started threads on full range of things that includes positives articles as well. If it that's distasteful to you then don't have to participate. Since you feel that strongly about it go to moderators and ask them close it down or even delete it.

[Ravage!!!]

I understand that but it's jumping the damn gun quite a bit to say that anything McDaniels has done isn't paying off. Clay is a serious McDaniels hater and the arguments he uses were old 4 months ago. If they were current I wouldn't be ranting...

He's a serious McDaniels DOUBTER.. and he has absolute reason to be. If you watched the pre-season games, you HAVE to be doubting the QB selection. Thats the biggest part of any offense/team.

You also have to doubt the choice to move up in the draft for some of these players.. AND.. the draft choices he DID give up considering the probability of this team having a very poor year. THose are decisions that McDaniels has made that have earned some VERY serious doubts. These are doubts big enough that will keep people/fans/writers/observers to keep a VERY close eye on everything. I hate to use the lame cliche's... but he's made his bed.

Until he proves otherwise, he will continue to get criticisms from fans and the media alike.

[EastCoastBronco]

Meh I guess I dont see it as ranting as much as having a personal opinon about what McD has done todate. Nothing wrong with that IMO. For everyone being critical of McD there is someone crowning a rookie HC who has yet to prove anything in that capacity.

Then again there is a reason we are all here talking about the Broncos and not at Dove valley sitting down with McD talking stratagy over a couple of brandys :laugh:

I'm not handing out crowns... I'm just giving the guy a chance. Clay has never gotten over the Cutler departure and he runs it into the ground every chance he gets. I'm just tired of it.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm not tired of it :beer:

[TXBRONC]

I'm not handing out crowns... I'm just giving the guy a chance. Clay has never gotten over the Cutler departure and he runs it into the ground every chance he gets. I'm just tired of it.

ECB that works both way. There several posters that can't stop bashing on Shanahan.

[Dortoh]

ECB that works both way. There several posters their several posters that can't bashing on Shanahan.

Good point. I admit I still hate Michael Dean Perry and his inability to get his fat ass off the field in the Jags playoff debacle. :mad:

[TXBRONC]

Good point. I admit I still hate Michael Dean Perry and his inability to get his fat ass off the field in the Jags playoff debacle. :mad:

How many times did that same thing happen to Sam Adams just a few years ago?

[Dortoh]

How many times did that same thing happen to Sam Adams just a few years ago?

Who knows what would have happend but IMO it cost us a very legit shot at back to back to back SB titles instead of just back to back.

[GEM]

How many times did that same thing happen to Sam Adams just a few years ago?

:lol: I went to the MNF game vs. the Packers. That was quite a sight to see.

[honz]

I'm angry at Bowlen and McD for pissing off Cutler and trading him, but Cutler deserves blame as well. That said, I still like McD and the direction he is taking this team...just wish we could have kept our QB. Cutler on the other hand...sucks.

[claymore]

I'm not handing out crowns... I'm just giving the guy a chance. Clay has never gotten over the Cutler departure and he runs it into the ground every chance he gets. I'm just tired of it.

You guys (pro mcdaniels) bring up Cutler more than I do. I will stick up for Cutler because he has given and done more for this team than McDaniels and Orton. When that changes, I will change my stance.

[TXBRONC]

:lol: I went to the MNF game vs. the Packers. That was quite a sight to see.

IIRC that also happened at the game in Detriot late that same year.

[In-com-plete]

Fans can boo Cutler and Marshall and employ other tactics that stoop to an immature level, but they should focus on those two less and start to direct their outrage at the people who most deserve it — owner Pat Bowlen and McDaniels.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[In-com-plete]

If Moreno becomes a stud it will go a long way for me. Also if our mini-nickel corner contributes that would help.

Contribute?

He'd better be the second coming of Champ Bailey.

Trade a 1st rounder for a second rounder straight up. And that 1st rounder is almost certain to be a top 10 pick. Possibly top 5.

[Dortoh]

Contribute?

He'd better be the second coming of Champ Bailey.

Trade a 1st rounder for a second rounder straight up. And that 1st rounder is almost certain to be a top 10 pick. Possibly top 5.

LMAO

I'm trying to be more positive as we get closer to kickoff 2009

[OrangeHoof]

What happened happened. Remember the old phrase "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't"? Bowlen was talked into getting rid of Shanahan because of what he couldn't do (build a defense) and replaced him with a complete and total unknown with no head coaching experience and no connection to the Broncos.

It should surprise nobody that the new guy brings in his own people and insists everything is done his way.

So, the real question is whether McDaniels' way will turn out to be better than if Shanahan had not been fired. One can only guess what Shanahan would have done with this year's draft and free agency, just as one can only guess whether McDaniels' tenure will be an improvement or not.

It can't be undone. In some ways, it is intriguing watching someone take this franchise into a different direction, even if that's down the toilet, because there are lessons to be learned in losing just as there are in winning. But make no mistake, McDaniels is going to be judged on whether he can be better than the .500 coach Shanahan was the past few years and whether McDaniels' eventual quarterback will produce better results than Cutler will in Chicago.

So, I don't think fans will "get over it" until McDaniels proves that he's an upgrade over Shanahan and his QB is an upgrade over Cutler. It's not realistic to expect them to any more than it is realistic to expect them to forget winning the Super Bowl back in the late 90s.

I don't envy McDaniels. He's set himself up for epic fail if he doesn't turn out to be the genius he was hailed as when he was hired.

[TXBRONC]

LMAO

I'm trying to be more positive as we get closer to kickoff 2009

I've given Incom a hard time many occassions but he'll come around.

[BigDaddyBronco]

What happened happened. Remember the old phrase "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't"? Bowlen was talked into getting rid of Shanahan because of what he couldn't do (build a defense) and replaced him with a complete and total unknown with no head coaching experience and no connection to the Broncos.

It should surprise nobody that the new guy brings in his own people and insists everything is done his way.

So, the real question is whether McDaniels' way will turn out to be better than if Shanahan had not been fired. One can only guess what Shanahan would have done with this year's draft and free agency, just as one can only guess whether McDaniels' tenure will be an improvement or not.

It can't be undone. In some ways, it is intriguing watching someone take this franchise into a different direction, even if that's down the toilet, because there are lessons to be learned in losing just as there are in winning. But make no mistake, McDaniels is going to be judged on whether he can be better than the .500 coach Shanahan was the past few years and whether McDaniels' eventual quarterback will produce better results than Cutler will in Chicago.

So, I don't think fans will "get over it" until McDaniels proves that he's an upgrade over Shanahan and his QB is an upgrade over Cutler. It's not realistic to expect them to any more than it is realistic to expect them to forget winning the Super Bowl back in the late 90s.

I don't envy McDaniels. He's set himself up for epic fail if he doesn't turn out to be the genius he was hailed as when he was hired.

I think the fans can be ok with a QB who isn't better than Cutler if that QB is competent and the overall team is better.

I also think most rational fans will give McDaniels a pass on this year.

But if Orton stinks and we go into next year with him as our starting QB after going 4-12, people will go nuts.

[In-com-plete]

LMAO

I'm trying to be more positive as we get closer to kickoff 2009

. . . and I'm trying to wake up . . . .



But I guess I've been awake this whole time.

That blows.

[Dortoh]

I think the fans can be ok with a QB who isn't better than Cutler if that QB is competent and the overall team is better.

I also think most rational fans will give McDaniels a pass on this year.

But if Orton stinks and we go into next year with him as our starting QB after going 4-12, people will go nuts.

Anyone who is expecting Orton to out duel Cutler is in for a real meltdown.

All Orton has to do is not screw the pooch. Can he do that I'm not so sure.

While I dont care for alot of McD's decissions this offseason that boat has sailed I think you have to give him 2-3 years at this point and then evaluate.

If orton stinks and we go 4-12 we will have a midget cornerback instead of a top 5 pick to find Ortons replacement. Then I will infact meltdown :laugh:

[TXBRONC]

Anyone who is expecting Orton to out duel Cutler is in for a real meltdown.

All Orton has to do is not screw the pooch. Can he do that I'm not so sure.

While I dont care for alot of McD's decissions this offseason that boat has sailed I think you have to give him 2-3 years at this point and then evaluate.

If orton stinks and we go 4-12 we will have a midget cornerback instead of a top 5 pick to find Ortons replacement. Then I will infact meltdown :laugh:

As I said earlier McDaniels is going get at least three seasons to turn the team around regardless of what we think. The only way I could see him getting less time is if has back to back horrible seasons.

[Lonestar]

I'm honestly not angry or anything anymore. Kinda nervous, kinda excited, but not angry. I may or may not be in about 6 weeks but for right now I'm just happy to have Broncos football back! Hope we don't stink it up too much, but no matter what I'm interested to see how this all plays out. I'm not expecting great things, but I am gonna watch the games a lot closer than I have the last few years, if anything to learn all the new names!

Wow finally a post that is not filled with hate.

Kudos to you.

[Dean]

Wow finally a post that is not filled with hate.

Kudos to you.

You see that as the only post in this thread not filled with hate?

:questionmark:

[NightTrainLayne]

Good point. I admit I still hate Michael Dean Perry and his inability to get his fat ass off the field in the Jags playoff debacle. :mad:

I've said it before.

If I ever see Micheal Dean Perry face to face I am going to punch him.

It might be the last thing I ever do, but I will straight-up cold-**** that SOB.

[claymore]

I've said it before.

If I ever see Micheal Dean Perry face to face I am going to punch him.

It might be the last thing I ever do, but I will straight-up cold-**** that SOB.

One of the worst days of my life.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm not sure McDaniels does get three years. Now obviously that goes without knowing how the seasons turn out.... but if we have a 4-5 win season, and next year go with Orton AGAIN as our starter.... than thats another year of then LOOKING for a new QB. Then when you find that QB, you have to let him learn.

So I think its almost a given that we either draft a QB high next year, or we put TB sometime in THIS season (later half) and expect him to be the starter next. That will give McDaniels his third season.

That may sound negative to some of you, but thats realistic. A young QB at the helm will buy the coach another year. BUT BECAUSE he traded away the stud we already had, that shortens that leash as to when we start seeing some progress from the QB position.

[Lonestar]

You see that as the only post in this thread not filled with hate?

:questionmark:



up to that point YEP..

[Lonestar]

I'm not sure McDaniels does get three years. Now obviously that goes without knowing how the seasons turn out.... but if we have a 4-5 win season, and next year go with Orton AGAIN as our starter.... than thats another year of then LOOKING for a new QB. Then when you find that QB, you have to let him learn.

So I think its almost a given that we either draft a QB high next year, or we put TB sometime in THIS season (later half) and expect him to be the starter next. That will give McDaniels his third season.

That may sound negative to some of you, but thats realistic. A young QB at the helm will buy the coach another year. BUT BECAUSE he traded away the stud we already had, that shortens that leash as to when we start seeing some progress from the QB position.


once again half truths he did not make that decision it was made for him by jay and in turn by Pat..

perhaps you should be ravaging Pat or jay and not Orton who is making the best of the situation he had nothing to do with..

regardless of your hate and discontent Pat makes the decision on when or IF Josh goes..


time to move on.. jay and mike are gone and it is water under the bridge..

[Ravage!!!]

once again half truths he did not make that decision it was made for him by jay and in turn by Pat..

perhaps you should be ravaging Pat or jay and not Orton who is making the best of the situation he had nothing to do with..

regardless of your hate and discontent Pat makes the decision on when or IF Josh goes..


time to move on.. jay and mike are gone and it is water under the bridge..

Cool your jets... the COACH made that decision and COULD have EASILY stopped it from happening, cooled the situation, or simply did what they did with Marshall..... PERIOD. Jay absolutely did NOT have any "leverage" over the coaches, and the coaches EFFED up... PERIOD.

Bowlen only finally said "trade him" after our coach messed up the entire situation. PLease spare me this pity-party you have for McDaniels.

I've criticized Bowlen a great deal.. and criticized him GREATLY from the VERY MOMENT he gave our young HC the same powers that we criticized the SHanahan regime for having. But let me guess....it's ok for you to CONSTANTLY gripe and moan and complain and bitch and moan and complain about SHanahan and his personnel decisions, but now that the shoe is on the other foot.... things aren't looking so rosy, huh?

I'm not taking any "hate" out on Orton. Orton is what he is...a back-up quality QB that has been named our starter BECAUSE of the decisions made by our coach. Can't be changed, but considering Orton is our starting QB, that sure as hell isn't "water under the bridge." From what I see, we are all TIT DEEP in the water (and my nipples are sensitive to cold water).

***PS.. btw, YOU telling other people NOT to complain about the coach and his personnel decisions.... IS the definition of IRONY

[Dortoh]

once again half truths he did not make that decision it was made for him by jay and in turn by Pat..

perhaps you should be ravaging Pat or jay and not Orton who is making the best of the situation he had nothing to do with..
regardless of your hate and discontent Pat makes the decision on when or IF Josh goes..


time to move on.. jay and mike are gone and it is water under the bridge..

I do feel for Orton. Dude was happy and life was going good in Chicago. Nobody expected alot from him and because of Jay he has his whole world turned upside down. Then he roles in here and gets bood right out of the gate.

Then again anyone would be happy to leave Chicago and move to Denver so that is something I guess.

[claymore]

once again half truths he did not make that decision it was made for him by jay and in turn by Pat..

perhaps you should be ravaging Pat or jay and not Orton who is making the best of the situation he had nothing to do with..

regardless of your hate and discontent Pat makes the decision on when or IF Josh goes..


time to move on.. jay and mike are gone and it is water under the bridge..

Practice what you preach. Only then will your plea's for us all to get over it be listened too.

[Gimpygod]

once again half truths he did not make that decision it was made for him by jay and in turn by Pat..

perhaps you should be ravaging Pat or jay and not Orton who is making the best of the situation he had nothing to do with..

regardless of your hate and discontent Pat makes the decision on when or IF Josh goes..


time to move on.. jay and mike are gone and it is water under the bridge..

I'm sorry but you are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong! Nobody made him try to replaced Cutler with an absolute nobody for quarterback. Please remember he said, "we were late to the dance." In reference as to why Kassel wasn't procured. You can't be late to a dance that you didn't try to get to... you just say I didn't go to the dance if that is the case. Then, nobody made McDaniels refuse to say his quarterback was an essential part of a team and he would not try to trade him. McDaniels was a petulant newbie and only a few people want to call him on his failings. Even though he has never had any success of any kind at his current position. And his Offensive coordinating needs to be qualified because his absolute best offense ever was bolstered by the cheating of the head coach, much easier to score points against defenses you secretly videotaped and analyzed during practice. so even his "success" is tainted and should be called into question.

[Lonestar]

Cool your jets... the COACH made that decision and COULD have EASILY stopped it from happening, cooled the situation, or simply did what they did with Marshall..... PERIOD. Jay absolutely did NOT have any "leverage" over the coaches, and the coaches EFFED up... PERIOD.

Bowlen only finally said "trade him" after our coach messed up the entire situation. PLease spare me this pity-party you have for McDaniels.

I've criticized Bowlen a great deal.. and criticized him GREATLY from the VERY MOMENT he gave our young HC the same powers that we criticized the SHanahan regime for having. But let me guess....it's ok for you to CONSTANTLY gripe and moan and complain and bitch and moan and complain about SHanahan and his personnel decisions, but now that the shoe is on the other foot.... things aren't looking so rosy, huh?

I'm not taking any "hate" out on Orton. Orton is what he is...a back-up quality QB that has been named our starter BECAUSE of the decisions made by our coach. Can't be changed, but considering Orton is our starting QB, that sure as hell isn't "water under the bridge." From what I see, we are all TIT DEEP in the water (and my nipples are sensitive to cold water).

***PS.. btw, YOU telling other people NOT to complain about the coach and his personnel decisions.... IS the definition of IRONY


you simply do not know that he did not unless of course you where in the room and heard all of the conversations between jay and Josh..

if you were then you can make that statement if you were not then your just speculating like lots of other haters are..

your man crush on jay is well noted by anyone that has followed you from mania..

as for KO being a back up QB, since he had a better starter W-L record than jay did I think that proves that comment moot..

as for Pat giving Josh the same powers that mike had prove it.. He has a legit boss in the money man above him and a GM that he consults with.. until you can prove that is not the case then I think your full of hate and ..........

that said..

I'm looking forward to a new season filled with hope and optimism.. it is a true shame that many haters are not..

rebutt all you want I'm done with your ravings..

[Lonestar]

I'm sorry but you are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong! Nobody made him try to replaced Cutler with an absolute nobody for quarterback. Please remember he said, "we were late to the dance." In reference as to why Kassel wasn't procured. You can't be late to a dance that you didn't try to get to... you just say I didn't go to the dance if that is the case. Then, nobody made McDaniels refuse to say his quarterback was an essential part of a team and he would not try to trade him. McDaniels was a petulant newbie and only a few people want to call him on his failings. Even though he has never had any success of any kind at his current position. And his Offensive coordinating needs to be qualified because his absolute best offense ever was bolstered by the cheating of the head coach, much easier to score points against defenses you secretly videotaped and analyzed during practice. so even his "success" is tainted and should be called into question.


The only thing that we know for sure is Josh received a call trying to work out a trade for someone that already knows his system..

silly man for listening to it..

silly haters for thinking he should not have picked up the phone and done so..


as for the rest of your post I did not read it.. you have lost credibility like many other haters..

[silkamilkamonico]

I think we'll be fine without Cutler. You can clearly see that McDaniels has a system that works. If you can't see that you're blind. He does need a QB though, and I don't think Orton is it.

I liked Cutler, and he is a great and talented QB, but he's also a free lancer and is the kind of QB that will make plays because of his arm, because he can. He's also not very disciplined and likes to force balls without going through his progression. McDaniels has a scheme where he wants the system to work, he doesn't want the QB going out there and trying to make plays all the time.

Tom Brady, for as good as he is, was made by the system. He didn't make the system. He played within the system, and NE tweaked the system to fit him.

And yes, before anyone get's pi$$y, Cutler could have been good with McDaniels. But he isn't here, and I believe Mcdaniels will find someone else who can be just as good in a different way.

Tom Brandstater ftmfw!!

[Lonestar]

I do feel for Orton. Dude was happy and life was going good in Chicago. Nobody expected alot from him and because of Jay he has his whole world turned upside down. Then he roles in here and gets bood right out of the gate.

Then again anyone would be happy to leave Chicago and move to Denver so that is something I guess.

I almost moved to CHI many years ago and it is a vibrant dynamic city with lots of things to do and see.. but the weather sucks I would have been based there and traveled around the US for Budget RAC.. but since I was moving from SYR where the winters were only slightly worse I opted for LA instead..

if the folks will give the kid a chance he will make most proud.. IMO..



Practice what you preach. Only then will your plea's for us all to get over it be listened too.


I moved on on JAN 2nd.. surprised and please that Pat finally made a decision to move on.. surprised you did not notice..

[Kaylore]

I'm going to be honest. This team is better than people want to admit. A lot of people in the media and who consider themselves Bronco fans are going to look really stupid this year. I can already tell we're playing more physically and the team is starting to get it. Our safeties were the worst in the league last year and that was a large part of our problems. Now they're much better. On offense we'll run more and score more than we did. And our special teams has been good throughout the entire preseason.

Mark my words: A lot of people are going to look really stupid exactly four months from now. If one of those people is me, then I will take my licks. But let me warn all of you. I know how to use the search function and be careful what you write about how this season is going to go before a single play has been run because it might haunt you.

A lot of people have looked really stupid getting emotional over something that hasn't happened yet and making predictions. Don't be one of them.

[Ravage!!!]

you simply do not know that he did not unless of course you where in the room and heard all of the conversations between jay and Josh..

if you were then you can make that statement if you were not then your just speculating like lots of other haters are..

your man crush on jay is well noted by anyone that has followed you from mania..

as for KO being a back up QB, since he had a better starter W-L record than jay did I think that proves that comment moot..

as for Pat giving Josh the same powers that mike had prove it.. He has a legit boss in the money man above him and a GM that he consults with.. until you can prove that is not the case then I think your full of hate and ..........

that said..

I'm looking forward to a new season filled with hope and optimism.. it is a true shame that many haters are not..

rebutt all you want I'm done with your ravings..


Your hypocrisy is outstanding. :coffee:

[Ravage!!!]

A lot of people have looked really stupid getting emotional over something that hasn't happened yet and making predictions. Don't be one of them.

Everyone makes predictions. You just made one in this very post. So how is it we aren't supposed to make predictions?

[Lonestar]

I think we'll be fine without Cutler. You can clearly see that McDaniels has a system that works. If you can't see that you're blind. He does need a QB though, and I don't think Orton is it.

I liked Cutler, and he is a great and talented QB, but he's also a free lancer and is the kind of QB that will make plays because of his arm, because he can. He's also not very disciplined and likes to force balls without going through his progression. McDaniels has a scheme where he wants the system to work, he doesn't want the QB going out there and trying to make plays all the time.

Tom Brady, for as good as he is, was made by the system. He didn't make the system. He played within the system, and NE tweaked the system to fit him.

And yes, before anyone get's pi$$y, Cutler could have been good with McDaniels. But he isn't here, and I believe Mcdaniels will find someone else who can be just as good in a different way.

Tom Brandstater ftmfw!!

I believe most of your post was spot on.. like Tom Brady in NE he learned the O and they did great things with a almost forgotten in the draft QB.. set a bunch of records with him..

I see no reason that KO can't do the same thing as he did if given the time to learn and digest the system,.. Perhaps not set records but certainly win a lot of games.. this is his audition yea and if he is found wanting the rest of the team will have absorbed enough of it so a another TB can do good things next year..

that said I look forward to this coming NEW year and hope we have TEAM again in DEN..

[Dortoh]

I'm going to be honest. This team is better than people want to admit. A lot of people in the media and who consider themselves Bronco fans are going to look really stupid this year. I can already tell we're playing more physically and the team is starting to get it. Our safeties were the worst in the league last year and that was a large part of our problems. Now they're much better. On offense we'll run more and score more than we did. And our special teams has been good throughout the entire preseason.

Mark my words: A lot of people are going to look really stupid exactly four months from now. If one of those people is me, then I will take my licks. But let me warn all of you. I know how to use the search function and be careful what you write about how this season is going to go before a single play has been run because it might haunt you.

A lot of people have looked really stupid getting emotional over something that hasn't happened yet and making predictions. Don't be one of them.

That is pathetic Kahn

ATTENTION PLEASE ATTENTION

It has come to my attention that certain REAL Bronco fans are going to be in charge of the "bandwagon" this season.

What we need you to do is line up single file and one at a time....no pushing please come up to the front desk where Khan will be making a final ruling on your fan status. If you are accepted as a good fan please board the bus/wagon which is parked out side in the loading and unloading area.

If unfortunatly you are determined by Khan to be a bad fan you will be asked to deposit any and all of your team items including foam fingers into the barrels located next to the exit and leave the property as soon as possible. We would like to thank all of you bad fans for trying out and wish you nothing but the best with your new team.

:laugh:

[Lonestar]

I'm going to be honest. This team is better than people want to admit. A lot of people in the media and who consider themselves Bronco fans are going to look really stupid this year. I can already tell we're playing more physically and the team is starting to get it. Our safeties were the worst in the league last year and that was a large part of our problems. Now they're much better. On offense we'll run more and score more than we did. And our special teams has been good throughout the entire preseason.

Mark my words: A lot of people are going to look really stupid exactly four months from now. If one of those people is me, then I will take my licks. But let me warn all of you. I know how to use the search function and be careful what you write about how this season is going to go before a single play has been run because it might haunt you.

A lot of people have looked really stupid getting emotional over something that hasn't happened yet and making predictions. Don't be one of them.



I think your correct.

But as far as W_L that is not how I will measure the team this year.. we may lose 8-11 games this year but if 3-4 of them are not ass kickings like we got the last few years I will consider them as wins..

if we do not lose and trap games like we have the last 8-10 years then I consider us on the right road..

if we do not lose any at home I consider us looking UP..

I look forward to a new TEAM on the field this year and look forward to how they progress..

[Ravage!!!]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[claymore]

I almost moved to CHI many years ago and it is a vibrant dynamic city with lots of things to do and see.. but the weather sucks I would have been based there and traveled around the US for Budget RAC.. but since I was moving from SYR where the winters were only slightly worse I opted for LA instead..

if the folks will give the kid a chance he will make most proud.. IMO..





I moved on on JAN 2nd.. surprised and please that Pat finally made a decision to move on.. surprised you did not notice..Whatever man crush.

You are the biggest hater/man crush dude on the board. For you to accuse anyone of anything remotley close is being hypocritical.

You refuse to even capitalize the J and S in Jay and Shannahans names.

[Mike]

That is enough. Back on topic, please.

[Northman]

I'm not trying bait others into anything.

Complete BS.

However, i dont care about it THAT much to go complain to the mods about it.

[Northman]

I'm going to be honest. This team is better than people want to admit. A lot of people in the media and who consider themselves Bronco fans are going to look really stupid this year. I can already tell we're playing more physically and the team is starting to get it. Our safeties were the worst in the league last year and that was a large part of our problems. Now they're much better. On offense we'll run more and score more than we did. And our special teams has been good throughout the entire preseason.

Mark my words: A lot of people are going to look really stupid exactly four months from now. If one of those people is me, then I will take my licks. But let me warn all of you. I know how to use the search function and be careful what you write about how this season is going to go before a single play has been run because it might haunt you.

A lot of people have looked really stupid getting emotional over something that hasn't happened yet and making predictions. Don't be one of them.


Word.

/thread

[Northman]

Well you're no mind reader.

Going by some of the high five's i got i would say im pretty good. Next...

[Lonestar]

OK folks lets get back to topic PLEASE..


:focus:

[Ravage!!!]

Going by some of the high five's i got i would say im pretty good. Next...

Now North.. who's the one trying to pick shiite here? Going by high-fives and Cps?? really?

TX isn't one to "bait." He has always been one that expresses his opinions, good or bad, positive or not.... straight up-front with everyone.

[Dortoh]

Just for the record I love North and Kaylore. Respect their opinons 100% I just wish they were right this time ;)

[GEM]

For crimeney sake....last time I checked you were both Broncos fans right? We are on a message board right? There are differing OPINIONS on message boards. Neither is right or wrong.

KNOCK IT OFF!

[drewloc]

For crimeney sake....last time I checked you were both Broncos fans right? We are on a message board right? There are differing OPINIONS on message boards. Neither is right or wrong.

KNOCK IT OFF!

GEM, you are one scary lady! :eek: I don't try to tell anyone how this year will go, because there are people on both sides of the spectrum. That said though, all of us are Broncos fans, and with the exception of a select few, no one wants to see us tank. As long as this team improves week to week and won't beat themselves, it's a positive future. :salute:

[Kaylore]

If we finished an awesome season in 08 and McDaniels dismantled a good team, or this was the end of a really bad McDaniels-led 4 win season, then I'd understand why people constantly find ways to rip the coach. Neither has happened. As is, we sucked last year and McD blew up the team and what little we've seen looks better. So the people that constantly rip the coach, the QB, the draft picks and the team in general at every turn are not good fans; They're trolls. I stand by that. They're trolls who are too busy dry humping a picture of Shanahan/Cutler and bitter about their departure they won't wait until an actual product hits the field to resort to pathetic name-calling and pessimistic whining.

[Medford Bronco]

Contribute?

He'd better be the second coming of Champ Bailey.

Trade a 1st rounder for a second rounder straight up. And that 1st rounder is almost certain to be a top 10 pick. Possibly top 5.

One of the worst trades ever if it turns out that way :mad:

[Medford Bronco]

If we finished an awesome season in 08 and McDaniels dismantled a good team, or this was the end of a really bad McDaniels-led 4 win season, then I'd understand why people constantly find ways to rip the coach. Neither has happened. As is, we sucked last year and McD blew up the team and what little we've seen looks better. So the people that constantly rip the coach, the QB, the draft picks and the team in general at every turn are not good fans; They're trolls. I stand by that. They're trolls who are too busy dry humping a picture of Shanahan/Cutler and bitter about their departure they won't wait until an actual product hits the field to resort to pathetic name-calling and pessimistic whining.

I just feel that the mess has poed a lot of people.

Dont get me wrong, Cutler was a big baby to me and I really hate his guts now. I hope he throws 35 ints with 10 tds and the Bears go 2-14. Its not likely to happen though.
Cutler, McD and Bowlen were responsible for the debacle

I just hope Orton does a good job. I am not holding my breath. I wish Simms were more healthy because I think he can be a decent QB and has actually had success in this league. More than Orton and Cutler. (Remmeber when the Bears went to the Bowl Rex GROSSman was the QB. and the year before when Orton started as a rook. GROSSman played in the playoffs that year when vs the Panthers beat Chicago IIRC.

[T.K.O.]

Broncos Forums > Football Forums > Broncos Talk
Broncos fans' anger is misplaced



....... what anger?

[Northman]

Just for the record I love North and Kaylore. Respect their opinons 100% I just wish they were right this time ;)

After all this time you still havent learned that im right ALL the time. Dont hate me because im perfect. :coffee:

[Northman]

They're trolls who are too busy dry humping a picture of Shanahan/Cutler and bitter about their departure

:lol:

Now THAT was ******* funny.

[Northman]

I just feel that the mess has poed a lot of people.

Dont get me wrong, Cutler was a big baby to me and I really hate his guts now. I hope he throws 35 ints with 10 tds and the Bears go 2-14. Its not likely to happen though.
Cutler, McD and Bowlen were responsible for the debacle

I just hope Orton does a good job. I am not holding my breath. I wish Simms were more healthy because I think he can be a decent QB and has actually had success in this league. More than Orton and Cutler. (Remmeber when the Bears went to the Bowl Rex GROSSman was the QB. and the year before when Orton started as a rook. GROSSman played in the playoffs that year when vs the Panthers beat Chicago IIRC.

Good post Med as usual. But here is the crux of the problem for me and unfortuantely ive been over this for the last 2 weeks. There's being upset and then there's being so upset that you WANT the team to fail and you will LOOK for anything to rip the team for or that falls in line with your personal vendetta or agenda. Do i think TX is better than what i have seen here? Yea, but im also not blind when someone comes in and posts a worthless article that 1) is so poorly researched and written that even a chimp could of done better than that and 2) is old news to begin with. My boy Dortoh says that the Cutler trade is still fresh. Um, not its not. The dude is gone and is totally irrelevant to the 2009 Denver Broncos. They may think im just picking on TX because he is upset about the trade. Nope, if some dillweed posted a McDaniels article saying that we were going to win the Super Bowl this year i would call him out for trolling and baiting as well. This article is not relevant nor does it shed any "new" blood on a old wound.

Fact is, this thread was really unecessary and only was there to serve one purpose. Sure, i could ignore TX or any other wackjob who just cant seem to cut it the **** loose but i also like a lot of what these guys have to say outside of this stupid sillyness. I would really hate to just up and leave the board but man, i just dont want to be dealing with this stupid shit all year long. I just want to root for my team and talk about whats going on with THESE players and not who was or isnt here anymore. Im emotionally spent on the subject and its just painful watching people drag this shit out for the sake of dragging it out. If Ravage, TX, Clay, or Dortoh want me to concede it was all McDaniels fault. Ok, ill concede it was his fault that Jay is gone. Happy? Can we talk about other things now instead of a player who is no longer here? Anyone? Is there nothing you guys on the other side of the fence can talk about except that? Really? I dont know, maybe it is time to leave. Im just drained of all this BS.

[MOtorboat]

If we finished an awesome season in 08 and McDaniels dismantled a good team, or this was the end of a really bad McDaniels-led 4 win season, then I'd understand why people constantly find ways to rip the coach. Neither has happened. As is, we sucked last year and McD blew up the team and what little we've seen looks better. So the people that constantly rip the coach, the QB, the draft picks and the team in general at every turn are not good fans; They're trolls. I stand by that. They're trolls who are too busy dry humping a picture of Shanahan/Cutler and bitter about their departure they won't wait until an actual product hits the field to resort to pathetic name-calling and pessimistic whining.

A-*******-men.

Idiots.

[nevcraw]

this offseason has been the mouth cut that would nver seem to heal. as a fan I have felt every range of emotion under the rainbow. Clearly - this board has reflected many of the same emotions as I have endured, but I think there is no wrong answer for which side you fall on.
Your pissed at Bowlen - good
You love the new regime - fine
You blame Cutler for being a baby - understood

But for the love of god why must there be a rulebook for fandome? apparently some are stil not confident in their own beliefs to let others explore their range of emotions with others dealing with the same change.. If not here then where?

Can't wait for Sunday..
Peace..

[BCJ]

So people burned his jersey, cut it up and flushed it. That makes them or other fans that didnt do it bad? They are letting out anger. When I pass up a car because they are going 10 miles per hour slower than me and I end uip only one car ahead at my stoplight, did I really do better with my actions? The car that I passed up would say, "Idiot. I am only a few feet away from you." Me, the driver ahead sees it a different way. " Good. He will no longer be a nuances to me and I got a little stress out of my system." These fans did just that. THey felt he screwed with their team and they are showing their disgust with Cutler. The author has it wrong. Burn away fans as it was your money spent on a product you thought was worth it.

[Gimpygod]

The only thing that we know for sure is Josh received a call trying to work out a trade for someone that already knows his system..

silly man for listening to it..

silly haters for thinking he should not have picked up the phone and done so..


as for the rest of your post I did not read it.. you have lost credibility like many other haters..

I watched him say on television, "we were late to the dance." First, why would somebody call and make an offer if it was too late for said offer to be accepted? They wouldn't and therefore the obvious conclusion is McDaniels made the call. Second, let's suppose some crazy sucker did call when it was too late to make an offer... nobody did but just to fulfill your crazy fantasies let's say. Late to the dance doesn't indicate that he fielded a call and declined, at the very least he fielded a call (again, he made the call) made an offer but was shut down or unsuccessful because the process was too far along. Either way, McDaniels is patently proven to be a liar when he says he didn't try to trade Jay for a third or fourth tier quarterback.

Another thing that bugs me about your posts are the attempts to show Orton is superior because of wins (absurd) and then in subsequent posts immediately following you say McDaniels shouldn't be judged on wins but on how competitively he loses! I know in your world Oompa-loompas drink chocolate straight from the river and McDaniels has as much credibility as a seasoned coach but for the rest of us in what I like to call "reality" don't see it that way. In your world you go into apoplectic shock when Shanahan spends the third round pick taking a chance on Maurice clarette and yet the new guy jettisons the franchise quarterback, gets rid of proven and loyal Broncos for his buddies, trades high first-round picks for second round players and is somehow an untouchable genius:shocked: I am utterly amazed that you can sit there straightfaced and pretend to be an optimist when I have watched you over the past few years be the consummate pessimist, now that 99% of all pundits and analysts agree McDaniels has done a very poor job you are now little Miss sunshine. Why is that?

[claymore]

I watched him say on television, "we were late to the dance." First, why would somebody call and make an offer if it was too late for said offer to be accepted? They wouldn't and therefore the obvious conclusion is McDaniels made the call. Second, let's suppose some crazy sucker did call when it was too late to make an offer... nobody did but just to fulfill your crazy fantasies let's say. Late to the dance doesn't indicate that he fielded a call and declined, at the very least he fielded a call (again, he made the call) made an offer but was shut down or unsuccessful because the process was too far along. Either way, McDaniels is patently proven to be a liar when he says he didn't try to trade Jay for a third or fourth tier quarterback.

Another thing that bugs me about your posts are the attempts to show Orton is superior because of wins (absurd) and then in subsequent posts immediately following you say McDaniels shouldn't be judged on wins but on how competitively he loses! I know in your world Oompa-loompas drink chocolate straight from the river and McDaniels has as much credibility as a seasoned coach but for the rest of us in what I like to call "reality" don't see it that way. In your world you go into apoplectic shock when Shanahan spends the third round pick taking a chance on Maurice clarette and yet the new guy jettisons the franchise quarterback, gets rid of proven and loyal Broncos for his buddies, trades high first-round picks for second round players and is somehow an untouchable genius:shocked: I am utterly amazed that you can sit there straightfaced and pretend to be an optimist when I have watched you over the past few years be the consummate pessimist, now that 99% of all pundits and analysts agree McDaniels has done a very poor job you are now little Miss sunshine. Why is that?

I love you. I want to buy you a burrito and a beer.

[WARHORSE]

I STILL can't believe he turned around and gave the 'shanahan power' to our new coach. I was initially excited about the McDaniels hiring.... until I then saw the firing of those in office and the hiring of this lame-duck GM..... thus giving McDaniels all the reigns. An EXTREMELY foolish move by Bowlen, and one that has me very discontent and disappointed in our owner.


I think its premature to decide it was a bad move.

Personally, I love the players he brought here and what hes done.

Special teams, defense and offense.

He brings in players to specifically fit what he wants to do.

It remains to be seen whether Bowlen was dumb...............or not.:coffee:

[Dortoh]

I watched him say on television, "we were late to the dance." First, why would somebody call and make an offer if it was too late for said offer to be accepted? They wouldn't and therefore the obvious conclusion is McDaniels made the call. Second, let's suppose some crazy sucker did call when it was too late to make an offer... nobody did but just to fulfill your crazy fantasies let's say. Late to the dance doesn't indicate that he fielded a call and declined, at the very least he fielded a call (again, he made the call) made an offer but was shut down or unsuccessful because the process was too far along. Either way, McDaniels is patently proven to be a liar when he says he didn't try to trade Jay for a third or fourth tier quarterback.

Another thing that bugs me about your posts are the attempts to show Orton is superior because of wins (absurd) and then in subsequent posts immediately following you say McDaniels shouldn't be judged on wins but on how competitively he loses! I know in your world Oompa-loompas drink chocolate straight from the river and McDaniels has as much credibility as a seasoned coach but for the rest of us in what I like to call "reality" don't see it that way. In your world you go into apoplectic shock when Shanahan spends the third round pick taking a chance on Maurice clarette and yet the new guy jettisons the franchise quarterback, gets rid of proven and loyal Broncos for his buddies, trades high first-round picks for second round players and is somehow an untouchable genius:shocked: I am utterly amazed that you can sit there straightfaced and pretend to be an optimist when I have watched you over the past few years be the consummate pessimist, now that 99% of all pundits and analysts agree McDaniels has done a very poor job you are now little Miss sunshine. Why is that?

Forget Clay I'm buying you shots and hookers.

[Gimpygod]

Nope, if some dillweed posted a McDaniels article saying that we were going to win the Super Bowl this year i would call him out for trolling and baiting as well.

I actually believe you would hire five the poster... actually, so would I such an article would be more rare than jrwiz making a pro-Shannahan post. And for the record I wasn't in love with Shannahan, I was a little worried when he got fired because I couldn't think of a coach who could bring more to the table than him but I was tired of creampuff Broncos teams getting their teeth kicked in so I was ready for change.

What has me upset is everything I'm seeing indicates an egotistical upstart as our head coach. If the players are meaningless (as they are all trade bait) and I don't like the coach and the owner had me believing he has lost his freaking mind, what am I rooting for? If Al Davis moves the Raiders to Denver and renames them to Broncos am I obligated as a Broncos fan to root for them? If so, why? If not, why?

[silkamilkamonico]

I am utterly amazed that you can sit there straightfaced and pretend to be an optimist when I have watched you over the past few years be the consummate pessimist, now that 99% of all pundits and analysts agree McDaniels has done a very poor job you are now little Miss sunshine. Why is that?

Your opinions on the matter aren't completely out of the blue, but 99%? Really? He's made exactly 1 very questionable decision, and that involves Cutler. That was also amplified, and pushed along, by Cutler and his glass emotional gina.

99% think he's doing a piss poor job? That's a joke. Especially considering there's a good majority of veteran players on this team (i.e Champ Bailey, Eddie Royal, Stokley, Graham, the oline, etc..) that are completely behind him and supportive of what he's doing.

Analysts are negative of McDaniels ONLY because of Jay Cutler. I'm sorry, but you're insinuation of Jay Cutler being 99% of the Denver organization is a complete joke. Elway wasn't even 99%. You thinking Cutler is beyond John Elway is ROFLCOPTER.

[GEM]

For **** sake....both the sunshine crowd and the doom and gloom crowds are just as guilty of not accepting that the other side has a right to feel what they fell. Instead of sitting here trying to cram down each others throat that your OPINION is the right OPINION, state your ******* piece, debate it to the death, but quit calling each other out and acting as if your side has been any less worse than the freaking other.

We're BRONCOS fans.

Get it.
Got it.
GOOD.

[claymore]

For **** sake....both the sunshine crowd and the doom and gloom crowds are just as guilty of not accepting that the other side has a right to feel what they fell. Instead of sitting here trying to cram down each others throat that your OPINION is the right OPINION, state your ******* piece, debate it to the death, but quit calling each other out and acting as if your side has been any less worse than the freaking other.

We're BRONCOS fans.

Get it.
Got it.
GOOD.

I want an apology from you. PM me.

[Dortoh]

For **** sake....both the sunshine crowd and the doom and gloom crowds are just as guilty of not accepting that the other side has a right to feel what they fell. Instead of sitting here trying to cram down each others throat that your OPINION is the right OPINION, state your ******* piece, debate it to the death, but quit calling each other out and acting as if your side has been any less worse than the freaking other.

We're BRONCOS fans.

Get it.
Got it.
GOOD.

I just wish they would kick the ******* ball already

[honz]

For **** sake....both the sunshine crowd and the doom and gloom crowds are just as guilty of not accepting that the other side has a right to feel what they fell. Instead of sitting here trying to cram down each others throat that your OPINION is the right OPINION, state your ******* piece, debate it to the death, but quit calling each other out and acting as if your side has been any less worse than the freaking other.

We're BRONCOS fans.

Get it.
Got it.
GOOD.

Winnar of teh internetz.

[Gimpygod]

Forget Clay I'm buying you shots and hookers.

Is that you Santa? I knew you were reading my letters and WishList!:elefant:

[Gimpygod]

Your opinions on the matter aren't completely out of the blue, but 99%? Really? He's made exactly 1 very questionable decision, and that involves Cutler. That was also amplified, and pushed along, by Cutler and his glass emotional gina.

99% think he's doing a piss poor job? That's a joke. Especially considering there's a good majority of veteran players on this team (i.e Champ Bailey, Eddie Royal, Stokley, Graham, the oline, etc..) that are completely behind him and supportive of what he's doing.

Analysts are negative of McDaniels ONLY because of Jay Cutler. I'm sorry, but you're insinuation of Jay Cutler being 99% of the Denver organization is a complete joke. Elway wasn't even 99%. You thinking Cutler is beyond John Elway is ROFLCOPTER.

I'm not even sure what you're talking about? I didn't say Cutler was 99% of anything... ever. And I sure as heck haven't said anything about Elway. I said 99% of analysts and such agreed that McDaniels is doing poorly at his job and I'm sticking with it. I haven't seen one person say he was doing a good job or even average outside of this board And I've been scouring the Internet for some upside. If you do happen to direct me to a few that would be great because as it stands 99% is an understatement. As to veterans being behind him, big deal! If you work somewhere and a new boss comes in and he says, "so how am I doing?" Only someone patently stupid would be truthful in a negative response.

[Dortoh]

I'm not even sure what you're talking about? I didn't say Cutler was 99% of anything... ever. And I sure as heck haven't said anything about Elway. I said 99% of analysts and such agreed that McDaniels is doing poorly at his job and I'm sticking with it. I haven't seen one person say he was doing a good job or even average outside of this board And I've been scouring the Internet for some upside. If you do happen to direct me to a few that would be great because as it stands 99% is an understatement. As to veterans being behind him, big deal! If you work somewhere and a new boss comes in and he says, "so how am I doing?" Only someone patently stupid would be truthful in a negative response.

I'm sure a vet like Dawkins was thrilled that he came to Denver to chase a SB ring and the first thing that happens is the young promising QB is sent packing :laugh:

[UnderArmour]

I'm sure a vet like Dawkins was thrilled that he came to Denver to chase a SB ring and the first thing that happens is the young promising QB is sent packing :laugh:

Ummm... Dawkins was closer to a ring in Philly than he would have been coming here, even with Cutler. lol. So it is extremely inaccurate to say he came to Denver to chase a ring, that statement could not be any further from the truth. We offered him more money.

[Dortoh]

Ummm... Dawkins was closer to a ring in Philly than he would have been coming here, even with Cutler. lol. So it is extremely inaccurate to say he came to Denver to chase a ring, that statement could not be any further from the truth. We offered him more money.

Hey I tried :laugh:

It still speaks to the point that vets in the locker room aint saying McD sucks if they think it or not.

[yardog]

Your opinions on the matter aren't completely out of the blue, but 99%? Really? He's made exactly 1 very questionable decision, and that involves Cutler. That was also amplified, and pushed along, by Cutler and his glass emotional gina.

99% think he's doing a piss poor job? That's a joke. Especially considering there's a good majority of veteran players on this team (i.e Champ Bailey, Eddie Royal, Stokley, Graham, the oline, etc..) that are completely behind him and supportive of what he's doing.

Analysts are negative of McDaniels ONLY because of Jay Cutler. I'm sorry, but you're insinuation of Jay Cutler being 99% of the Denver organization is a complete joke. Elway wasn't even 99%. You thinking Cutler is beyond John Elway is ROFLCOPTER.

If I'm not mistaken Champ was high on Slowick also and how did that work for us?

[silkamilkamonico]

I'm not even sure what you're talking about? I didn't say Cutler was 99% of anything... ever. And I sure as heck haven't said anything about Elway. I said 99% of analysts and such agreed that McDaniels is doing poorly at his job and I'm sticking with it. I haven't seen one person say he was doing a good job or even average outside of this board And I've been scouring the Internet for some upside. If you do happen to direct me to a few that would be great because as it stands 99% is an understatement. As to veterans being behind him, big deal! If you work somewhere and a new boss comes in and he says, "so how am I doing?" Only someone patently stupid would be truthful in a negative response.

Yea he's doing really poor on his job. That 0-0 record he has is a killer.

:rolleyes:


If I'm not mistaken Champ was high on Slowick also and how did that work for us?

That is a good point, and considering he helped contribute to the garbage defense we've had the last few years has made me question that trade even moreso, considering we lost a guy like Portis and replaced him with guys like TBell, MBell, and RDroughns.

Honestly though, you can look at it one of 2 ways with Champ.

1)The guy's one of the greatest CB's to ever play the game, and if he's supportive of McDaniels like he says he is regardless of what's happened in the past (Slowick), I'm more inclined to just take his word over the analysts who come out year by year and say things like, "Detroit finished 4-0 in this preseason, I think they're really changing the culture over there." 16 losses later and they look like they don';t have a clue what they're talking about.

2)Maybe Champ really doesn't have a clue, considering he supported SLowick and was part of our godforsaken defense.

Take your pick.

[Simple Jaded]

Sorry Dan, your a complete idiot. A recent poll was done to see where the fans stood with the offseason transactions and 89% were unhappy about the Cutler trade and threw their anger on McDaniels and Bowlen. Do some research Dan, it helps keeping the mud off your face.

He's not talking about Denver fans as a whole, imo, he even said as much.

"I don't think this group of fans, which has seemingly lost all common sense, is indicative of the behavior of the entire Broncos fan base, but this extreme faction is giving them all a bad name."

I'm not sure he's even talking about the other 11% as a whole, he seems to be talking specifically about the complete, bedwetting idiots that burned jerseys and booed Cutler.......

[Simple Jaded]

I think the fans can be ok with a QB who isn't better than Cutler if that QB is competent and the overall team is better.

No, I won't.......

I also think most rational fans will give McDaniels a pass on this year.

Absolutely not.......

But if Orton stinks and we go into next year with him as our starting QB after going 4-12, people will go nuts.

The overall team should be better regardless of Cutler being a Broncos or not, my feeling is, Denver is a better team with Jay Cutler on it, period.

This team was 8-8 with a young a potent offense, all McDaniels had to do was fix the defense and take that offense to the next level, if the defense is as solid as it appears to be, Josh McDaniels does not deserve a pass on anything.

Orton is a journeyman stiff, but I have no doubt that he'll be the Denver Broncos starting QB into the forseeable future, regardless of Denver's 09 record.......

[Lonestar]

.

This team was 8-8 with a young a potent offense, all McDaniels had to do was fix the defense and take that offense to the next level, if the defense is as solid as it appears to be, Josh McDaniels does not deserve a pass on anything.

Orton is a journeyman stiff, but I have no doubt that he'll be the Denver Broncos starting QB into the forseeable future, regardless of Denver's 09 record.......

Did you or any logical fan think that when Pat hired this guy he wanted to force him to run mikes playbook.

Pat hired him to come in with his scheme and win with it.

Just so happens jay did not want to. For whoevers fault. The fact is he did not want to stay in DENVER.

It is time for all the real fans to stop and think do you really want to see the new group fail that bad just so y'all can gloat and say I TOLD YOU SO.

If that is what Y'all want then IMHO Y'all are not Broncos fans. But mike, jay, John, jason, tater, george or Dayne fans. Or whomever floats your boat.

Josh was hired to run the team how he sees fit and he is. They will play with who ever suits up on game day/night and it is time IMHO to root for them or move on.

And for Y'all that will counter that you have the right to disent. Like I did when mike was running this team into the ground. I say yes you do, but not once did I wish them to loose so mike or jay would be fired.

[TXBRONC]

The overall team should be better regardless of Cutler being a Broncos or not, my feeling is, Denver is a better team with Jay Cutler on it, period.

This team was 8-8 with a young a potent offense, all McDaniels had to do was fix the defense and take that offense to the next level, if the defense is as solid as it appears to be, Josh McDaniels does not deserve a pass on anything.

Orton is a journeyman stiff, but I have no doubt that he'll be the Denver Broncos starting QB into the forseeable future, regardless of Denver's 09 record.......

If Denver is winning and Orton is playing well in this offense then I can only guess he would stick with him. But Orton is sub par he would eventually have to replace him. Certainly there is chance he wouldn't do it this year but if Orton were to start giving a repeat preformance I don't think McDaniels could afford to do that for two full seasons in a row.

[Ravage!!!]

If Denver is winning and Orton is playing well in this offense then I can only guess he would stick with him. But Orton is sub par he would eventually have to replace him. Certainly there is chance he wouldn't do it this year but if Orton were to start giving a repeat preformance I don't think McDaniels could afford to do that for two full seasons in a row.

I agree. I wouldn't be shocked to see TB take the reigns towards the end of the season.

I think we have two choices. Find out if TB is a guy we MIGHT be able to start next season, or plan on drafting a high round QB. I personally don't think we will draft a high round QB, because I truly believe McDaniels simply believes he can 'get by' with lower round QBs and succeed with sub-par talent....thus using picks elsewhere. I don't know that, but considering he looked to trade away a top talent for Cassel, lends me to believe he feels his system is "fool proof" so to speak.

I think both of the guys we have on the roster are purely back-up talent and do feel that we will move on after this season if there isn't much success.

[Gimpygod]

Yea he's doing really poor on his job. That 0-0 record he has is a killer.

:rolleyes:



That is a good point, and considering he helped contribute to the garbage defense we've had the last few years has made me question that trade even moreso, considering we lost a guy like Portis and replaced him with guys like TBell, MBell, and RDroughns.

Honestly though, you can look at it one of 2 ways with Champ.

1)The guy's one of the greatest CB's to ever play the game, and if he's supportive of McDaniels like he says he is regardless of what's happened in the past (Slowick), I'm more inclined to just take his word over the analysts who come out year by year and say things like, "Detroit finished 4-0 in this preseason, I think they're really changing the culture over there." 16 losses later and they look like they don';t have a clue what they're talking about.

2)Maybe Champ really doesn't have a clue, considering he supported SLowick and was part of our godforsaken defense.

Take your pick.

False hypothesis, this is like saying when you roll the dice you either have to roll a one or a six, choose. Champ could also be saying something nice about everyone who's higher on the chain of command than him since he knows where his bread is buttered. Since I've never seen him say anything but good stuff about every defense of coordinator he has had even though we have stunk the past four years on that side of the ball I'm going to choose C.) Camp is equally smart in business as playing football so he sucks up to the boss a bit. My final answer

[Gimpygod]

Did you or any logical fan think that when Pat hired this guy he wanted to force him to run mikes playbook.

Pat hired him to come in with his scheme and win with it.

Just so happens jay did not want to. For whoevers fault. The fact is he did not want to stay in DENVER.

It is time for all the real fans to stop and think do you really want to see the new group fail that bad just so y'all can gloat and say I TOLD YOU SO.

If that is what Y'all want then IMHO Y'all are not Broncos fans. But mike, jay, John, jason, tater, george or Dayne fans. Or whomever floats your boat.

Josh was hired to run the team how he sees fit and he is. They will play with who ever suits up on game day/night and it is time IMHO to root for them or move on.

And for Y'all that will counter that you have the right to disent. Like I did when mike was running this team into the ground. I say yes you do, but not once did I wish them to loose so mike or jay would be fired.

Says the guy who daily tore apart every Shannahan decision and blamed him for stuff ranging from bad Draft picks to tuberculosis and beyond:rolleyes:. You still haven't answered, why are you so positive now when you were so negative in the past? I haven't seen too many people say they wanted the Broncos to fail to prove themselves correct so everyone is just being like you were previously. Of course, when you were complaining about the coach being inapt he was only the most winning coach during his tenure and one of the winningest in history. When you were complaining about the offense in the red zone we were one of the most effective offenses in the league. Now we have none of those positive things and are relying on "the good judgment" of a head coach that experts agree is doing a horrible job and has torpedoed this franchise. Why are you now a believer in the system? What makes you think the Broncos are going to be any better? Why is every call by the head coach, no matter how outwardly stupid appearing, unquestionable? I'm perplexed.

[TXBRONC]

I agree. I wouldn't be shocked to see TB take the reigns towards the end of the season.

I think we have two choices. Find out if TB is a guy we MIGHT be able to start next season, or plan on drafting a high round QB. I personally don't think we will draft a high round QB, because I truly believe McDaniels simply believes he can 'get by' with lower round QBs and succeed with sub-par talent....thus using picks elsewhere. I don't know that, but considering he looked to trade away a top talent for Cassel, lends me to believe he feels his system is "fool proof" so to speak.

I think both of the guys we have on the roster are purely back-up talent and do feel that we will move on after this season if there isn't much success.

I suppose that's possible that if Denver is doing poorly that Brandstater could end up taking starting a game or two at the end of the year. But I would also assume that McDaniels had given Simms crack at starting as well. However, that is quite aways down the road and anything can happen between now and then.

[Lonestar]

Says the guy who daily tore apart every Shannahan decision and blamed him for stuff ranging from bad Draft picks to tuberculosis and beyond:rolleyes:. You still haven't answered, why are you so positive now when you were so negative in the past? I haven't seen too many people say they wanted the Broncos to fail to prove themselves correct so everyone is just being like you were previously. Of course, when you were complaining about the coach being inapt he was only the most winning coach during his tenure and one of the winningest in history. When you were complaining about the offense in the red zone we were one of the most effective offenses in the league. Now we have none of those positive things and are relying on "the good judgment" of a head coach that experts agree is doing a horrible job and has torpedoed this franchise. Why are you now a believer in the system? What makes you think the Broncos are going to be any better? Why is every call by the head coach, no matter how outwardly stupid appearing, unquestionable? I'm perplexed.


I was a big mike supporter till I realized he was a pitch man with his we are just one or two players away schict he did each Post season presser it was almost like he dug the last one out and recycled it..

then I went back to the press releases and Video they USED to have on the web site and it was almost verbatim for 3 years..

Then I started to look at why we were not doing well and I started noticing that almost none of his draft choices (I use that term loosely) made it past their 3 TC..

Where we should have been building our team via the draft mike was failing miserably at that and spending huge signing bonuses on 3-5 Veteran each year to fill those holes he fubar'd in the draft..

the only thing he was good at was drafting OLINE, LB and RB the rest seemed to be wasted picks.. we all know that almost none of the guys we drafted for the OLINE would have been taken and played anywhere else they might have stuck for a year or two but face the facts that they for th most part were ZBS specialists.. yes we lost a couple to FA but does anyone believe they would have been drafted and lasted by other teams..

as for LB he drafted 3 good ones Mobley, al Wilson, and DJ then he bombed on gold, pierce. while gold played well in the scheme it is debatable if he would have been as good outside of DEN.. pierce was a wasted pick an threat to Al to resign a contract or be replaced..

now I know you are a solid Bronco fan and I will not try to say your not..

But I believe UNTIL Josh pulls some of the crap that mike did I'm going to give him the benefit of DOUBT like I did with mike.. Until he drafted Ashely l in 2002 I thought he knew what he was doing.. and those that were on mania knew how I stuck up for him on that deal..

I'm a believer that day one picks should almost be instant starters unless you are drafting to fill a back up position of an aging VET..
it was a rare occasion other than OL, Rb or LB that mike pulled that off.

yes I know several like foster did start but we all know that that was a HUGE mistake. he was not worthy of a #1 pick let alone day one..


go Back and show me from 1999-2005 how many quality starters lasted on this team more than their third training camp...

for that matter how many day one picks made it past year 3 in DEN.

Yes I know many teams blow picks but we had the WORST drafting record from 2000-05 documented by an independent source..


you build via the draft we did not until 2006 and now even some of those choices make me wonder a bit..

I'm happy that mike is gone and will give the new KID a free ride until He blows it..

it is a tragedy that jay decided he wanted to be a Bear.. and not play in DEN.. But I suspect regardless of WHO was hired he would not have stayed past his rookie contract....

I've moved on and will back the team on the field.. you can believe what ever experts you want to.. I feel good about what Josh has done it make sense to me..

you forget that controversy sell ad space.. and many of the experts like jamie dukes are hacks, ex jocks that have big mouths and addled brains..

They have big mouths and that is about all..

I know your angry but I'm not the bad guy here..

[Ravage!!!]

I suppose that's possible that if Denver is doing poorly that Brandstater could end up taking starting a game or two at the end of the year. But I would also assume that McDaniels had given Simms crack at starting as well. However, that is quite aways down the road and anything can happen between now and then.

Simms might get a shot at starting this year, but I don't believe he or Orton is the long-term solution. I like Simms. I think he is a smart kid that understands the game. I think he has a good head on his shoulders, and believe him to be a better QB than Orton. But I don't think I see him as our solution.

As I've stated, I don't think any of hte QBs we have on the roster are starting-qb caliber. Both, I believe, would/will make pretty good back-ups. I just don't know (and honestly don't believe) that McDaniels will set his ego aside long enough to start someone else other than Orton (if he's healthy). Which is why I feel/felt that Orton's finger could very well be the excuse McDaniel's needs to bench Orton and have a built-in excuse.

[Simple Jaded]

Did you or any logical fan think that when Pat hired this guy he wanted to force him to run mikes playbook.

Pat hired him to come in with his scheme and win with it.

Just so happens jay did not want to. For whoevers fault. The fact is he did not want to stay in DENVER.

It is time for all the real fans to stop and think do you really want to see the new group fail that bad just so y'all can gloat and say I TOLD YOU SO.

If that is what Y'all want then IMHO Y'all are not Broncos fans. But mike, jay, John, jason, tater, george or Dayne fans. Or whomever floats your boat.

Josh was hired to run the team how he sees fit and he is. They will play with who ever suits up on game day/night and it is time IMHO to root for them or move on.

And for Y'all that will counter that you have the right to disent. Like I did when mike was running this team into the ground. I say yes you do, but not once did I wish them to loose so mike or jay would be fired.

I don't know what the **** you're talking about, I never said a word about Josh McDaniels running Shanahan's system, and I couldn't care less who around here thinks I'm a real fan, you need to put this ridiculous bullshit to rest.......I was a Broncos fan long before Josh McDaniels and I'll be a Broncos fan long after. Know that!

And if you or anyone else is wondering if I wish for the Broncos to lose, keep guessing, I have no intention of entertaining this kind of bullshit. Trust me, regardless of what you say now, many were wondering the same thing about you for years, most just had the good sense to keep it to themselves. I, for one, have never questioned your loyalty to the Denver Broncos, but then again, up until you started becoming the Boards Biggest Homer, you and I were on the same side of the arguement most times.......I haven't changed, you have! So you can save your little lectures on being a real fan, I don't give a **** about "I told you so!"

Btw, if Bowlen hired McDaniels to come in and do what he's done then he's a ****ing fool.......

[TXBRONC]

Simms might get a shot at starting this year, but I don't believe he or Orton is the long-term solution. I like Simms. I think he is a smart kid that understands the game. I think he has a good head on his shoulders, and believe him to be a better QB than Orton. But I don't think I see him as our solution.

As I've stated, I don't think any of hte QBs we have on the roster are starting-qb caliber. Both, I believe, would/will make pretty good back-ups. I just don't know (and honestly don't believe) that McDaniels will set his ego aside long enough to start someone else other than Orton (if he's healthy). Which is why I feel/felt that Orton's finger could very well be the excuse McDaniel's needs to bench Orton and have a built-in excuse.

I know that Brandstater is just a 6th round pick but maybe with a little time to learn the system maybe he could be a solid quarterback.

[broncofanatic1987]

The writer of the article clearly misses something. He says the Cutler and Marshall haters don't represent the majority of Broncos fans but yet acts as though no one is angry at McDaniels or Bowlen.:confused:

He needs to do a little more research before writing an article like that. :listen:There is plenty of anger and hate going around for all parties involved.

[Simple Jaded]

The writer of the article clearly misses something. He says the Cutler and Marshall haters don't represent the majority of Broncos fans but yet acts as though no one is angry at McDaniels or Bowlen.:confused:

He needs to do a little more research before writing an article like that. :listen:There is plenty of anger and hate going around for all parties involved.

He is specifically talking about the folks that clearly are angry with/hate Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall, he is not talking about the folks that are alreeady angry with Bowlen and McDaniels.

I don't know why people can't figure this out, it's the same with being angry with Cutler's "6 on a scale of 10" comments, he's not saying all Broncos fans are 6's, if you're not a 6 then you're not the fan he's talking about, if you're not booing/burning, you're not the fan this writer is talking about.......

[broncofanatic1987]

He is specifically talking about the folks that clearly are angry with/hate Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall, he is not talking about the folks that are alreeady angry with Bowlen and McDaniels.

I don't know why people can't figure this out, it's the same with being angry with Cutler's "6 on a scale of 10" comments, he's not saying all Broncos fans are 6's, if you're not a 6 then you're not the fan he's talking about, if you're not booing/burning, you're not the fan this writer is talking about.......

The article was about McDaniels and Bowlen because the writer clearly states that Broncos fans' anger should be directed at them and not Cutler and Marshall.

Broncos fans are angry at McDaniels and Bowlen, so why does the writer think it's necessary to tell Broncos fans that they should be angry at them and not Cutler and Marshall?

He missed something and should have done more research before writing that article. He said the Cutler and Marshall haters don't represent the majority of Broncos fans. He should have found out who constitutes the rest of the fan base. He would have figured out that there are plenty of people who are angry at McDaniels and Bowlen and therefore his little rant against the Cutler and Marshall haters was completely ridiculous, especially since both players did plenty to earn the wrath of the fan base, even if only a small part of it.

[Kaylore]

i'm going to be honest. This team is better than people want to admit. A lot of people in the media and who consider themselves bronco fans are going to look really stupid this year. I can already tell we're playing more physically and the team is starting to get it. Our safeties were the worst in the league last year and that was a large part of our problems. Now they're much better. On offense we'll run more and score more than we did. And our special teams has been good throughout the entire preseason.

mark my words: A lot of people are going to look really stupid exactly four months from now. if one of those people is me, then i will take my licks. But let me warn all of you. I know how to use the search function and be careful what you write about how this season is going to go before a single play has been run because it might haunt you.

A lot of people have looked really stupid getting emotional over something that hasn't happened yet and making predictions. Don't be one of them.

So it was spoken! So it is done!

[Timmy!]

There are some pretty quotable posts in this thread. :heh:

[honz]

Kaylore and Timmy are two of my heroes.

[Timmy!]

Mods please rename this thread: "Oh holy crap, look at that crow on my plate."

TIA.

[honz]

Burning Cutler jerseys, things really that bad huh? I daren't get a jersey with a name on the back now incase he leaves! :P Wonder how things will seem if in a few weeks time Denver are 4-1 and Chicago sit 1-4?

Winnar.

[honz]

IMO its not about Jay its about the pattern of whoops and questionable actions. Jay can kiss my ass but he is part of McD's current history. Only time will tell and as a fan I hope McD is the next HOF coach I guess we shall see.

I think that question has been answered.

[honz]

I'm angry at Bowlen and McD for pissing off Cutler and trading him, but Cutler deserves blame as well. That said, I still like McD and the direction he is taking this team...just wish we could have kept our QB. Cutler on the other hand...sucks.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[honz]

Contribute?

He'd better be the second coming of Champ Bailey.

Trade a 1st rounder for a second rounder straight up. And that 1st rounder is almost certain to be a top 10 pick. Possibly top 5.
Fail?

[honz]

I do feel for Orton. Dude was happy and life was going good in Chicago. Nobody expected alot from him and because of Jay he has his whole world turned upside down. Then he roles in here and gets bood right out of the gate.

Then again anyone would be happy to leave Chicago and move to Denver so that is something I guess.
Neckbeard pities you and your feeble life!

[BCJ]

the joy of bumped threads!

[GEM]

the joy of bumped threads!

We can probably expect a few of these over the season. After having it shoved down our throats how awful McD was and how terrible this team was going to play, some of our active members have gone down....those posters who were so busy doing the shoving have all but gone into hiding. I'm sure once in a while we will get the bumped threads and the haha I told you so's. When the end result is that my Broncos are tasting success and serving some crow, I don't have an issue with it. They have definitely earned it.

[In-com-plete]

Fail?

I was wrong about top 5. I honestly thought this team wouldn't win 5 games all year. And I'm glad I was wrong. But that still doesn't make trading a '10 first rounder for a '09 second rounder a good deal.

Unless he turns out to be a great player. And currently he's our #4 corner.

So yes, we did fail.

[Tned]

So it was spoken! So it is done!

Some of the old, bumped threads, are going to start getting interesting. :)

[Tned]

I was wrong about top 5. I honestly thought this team wouldn't win 5 games all year. And I'm glad I was wrong. But that still doesn't make trading a '10 first rounder for a '09 second rounder a good deal.

Unless he turns out to be a great player. And currently he's our #4 corner.

So yes, we did fail.

Well, if it turns out we traded a 29th, 30th, 31st or .... (can't say it out loud), pick for him, then the price for Smith was not anywhere near as high as the top five or top 10 pick that most experts predicted we would have in next years draft.

[CoachChaz]

I was wrong about top 5. I honestly thought this team wouldn't win 5 games all year. And I'm glad I was wrong. But that still doesn't make trading a '10 first rounder for a '09 second rounder a good deal.

Unless he turns out to be a great player. And currently he's our #4 corner.

So yes, we did fail.

Not many corners "walk" into starting spots. Especially on a team with Champ Bailey. If he eventually becomes a top 10 corner in the league, then it was a worthy trade. Better than taking a chance on a DL that most likely would have been a bust.

[EastCoastBronco]

I love the Moreno pick. I was for it before shanny was fired. JMCD has set himself up in so many situations (to include the smith pick/trade) where I just cannot believe its genius. I have yet to see one thing work out. He has made unheard of risky moves this offseason. I want to see one of those things pay off.



You might want to at least wait until mid season before you say that shit ain't paying off. This ain't the land of chocolate and McDaniels isn't a goddamn magician. He's doing what he thinks is best to get this team out of the pathetic pool of mediocrity it has been neck deep in for the past 5 years.
Because I coached a football team for 6 years and realize that programs don't magically bloom overnight, I'm giving the guy a couple of years before I pass judgement. You should at least give him till game 8.

Just getting my "told ya so's" in while the gettin's good.
I'll leave it at that.
Sorry Clay...;-)

[Lonestar]

Some folks myself included (marshall) really disliked certain broncos and FO. For the most part without merit, as someone mentioned most of them have dug themselves into a HUGE hole and have not been around to take a beating or acknowledged their WRONGNESS. Perhaps excepting Clay who took his lumps, most have run for the hills. Or still hiding in their holes or when the Broncos lose a game will slink out to HAR HAR the rest of the faithfull.

Sent via Blackberry by altell.

[GEM]

I was wrong about top 5. I honestly thought this team wouldn't win 5 games all year. And I'm glad I was wrong. But that still doesn't make trading a '10 first rounder for a '09 second rounder a good deal.

Unless he turns out to be a great player. And currently he's our #4 corner.

So yes, we did fail.

You can't say we failed 6 games into his career. If he's a bust after 2 seasons, then you can throw out the fail.

[GEM]

Some folks myself included (marshall) really disliked certain broncos and FO. For the most part without merit, as someone mentioned most of them have dug themselves into a HUGE hole and have not been around to take a beating or acknowledged their WRONGNESS. Perhaps excepting Clay who took his lumps, most have run for the hills. Or still hiding in their holes or when the Broncos lose a game will slink out to HAR HAR the rest of the faithfull.

Sent via Blackberry by altell.

Do tell jr....if Marshall does keep his nose clean and turns out to be as great off the field as he is on, will you take your lumps? :D

[Dortoh]

http://static.pyzam.com/img/funnypics/9/dogwaterz.jpg

[NightTrainLayne]

That is pathetic Kahn

ATTENTION PLEASE ATTENTION

It has come to my attention that certain REAL Bronco fans are going to be in charge of the "bandwagon" this season.

What we need you to do is line up single file and one at a time....no pushing please come up to the front desk where Khan will be making a final ruling on your fan status. If you are accepted as a good fan please board the bus/wagon which is parked out side in the loading and unloading area.

If unfortunatly you are determined by Khan to be a bad fan you will be asked to deposit any and all of your team items including foam fingers into the barrels located next to the exit and leave the property as soon as possible. We would like to thank all of you bad fans for trying out and wish you nothing but the best with your new team.

:laugh:

Sorry Dortoh. ..


Fan Application: DENIED.


:D :lol: :beer:


Just had to take one shot at you. Now that's over. Go Broncos!

[Dortoh]

Sorry Dortoh. ..


Fan Application: DENIED.


:D :lol: :beer:


Just had to take one shot at you. Now that's over. Go Broncos!

I can take it NTL :salute:

[Dortoh]

Neckbeard pities you and your feeble life!

I need help :listen:

http://plorf.com/media/pic-rock-bottom-here.jpg

[Dortoh]

We can probably expect a few of these over the season. After having it shoved down our throats how awful McD was and how terrible this team was going to play, some of our active members have gone down....those posters who were so busy doing the shoving have all but gone into hiding. I'm sure once in a while we will get the bumped threads and the haha I told you so's. When the end result is that my Broncos are tasting success and serving some crow, I don't have an issue with it. They have definitely earned it.

We are not all hiding. I'll take my lumps standing up but when all is said and done I'm loving this season and thats all that really matters to me :coffee:

[Lonestar]

Do tell jr....if Marshall does keep his nose clean and turns out to be as great off the field as he is on, will you take your lumps? :D

Have I ever weazeled. I have admitted to thinkibg this was a 5-11 team, mainly because of all the massive personnel, scheme, coaching changes. I thought if we could win that many and be close in the other loses we would be on our way in 2010.

As far as Marshall is concerned his on the field demeanor has heads above what I thought it COULD be.

That said I still have concerns about him NOT being on the field.
His incident of kicking the ball in the last game still shows he has anger issues.

I hope he will be a leader on this team for a long time if NOT then he gets us MAJOR draft choices. Via RFA.


Sent via Blackberry by altell.

[honz]

I was wrong about top 5. I honestly thought this team wouldn't win 5 games all year. And I'm glad I was wrong. But that still doesn't make trading a '10 first rounder for a '09 second rounder a good deal.

Unless he turns out to be a great player. And currently he's our #4 corner.

So yes, we did fail.

Smith was our clear cut #3 CB before hurting his ankle, so I'm not sure he is really our #4. Plus he played very well in the first couple games when he was healthy.

[topscribe]

Kaylore and Timmy are two of my heroes.

*cough* Orton *cough*

*sniff, sniff*

-----

[Slick]

Immaturity at it's finest. Oooooooh. I'm going to bump an old thread and rub someone's nose in it.

[Dortoh]

Immaturity at it's finest. Oooooooh. I'm going to bump an old thread and rub someone's nose in it.

Personally I'm fine with it. Good natured stick in the eye is good for everyone/anyone.

I will warn everyone it did start a soap opera at the OM which was/is UGLY

[Slick]

Personally I'm fine with it. Good natured stick in the eye is good for everyone/anyone.

I will warn everyone it did start a soap opera at the OM which was/is UGLY

sure, some of it is good natured. I just think it's dumb.. Carry on poking each other. I hope no one gets butt hurt.

[Dortoh]

sure, some of it is good natured. I just think it's dumb.. Carry on poking each other. I hope no one gets butt hurt.

Im one of the people who was wrong and am taking my stick to the eye with honor and courage :laugh:

[Slick]

Im one of the people who was wrong and am taking my stick to the eye with honor and courage :laugh:

You are definitely being a good sport about it hotrod. For the record, the only shit I gave you or clay was for the cutler extended/name calling thread. ...I didn't have to bump a 4 month old thread to do so. I was afraid you guys would hate me after that, but I felt like it had to be said.

I will buy you a beer and send it to the man cave thread.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Sometimes when you stick your foot in your mouth you need to taste it so may be the next time you'll think twice.

[Dortoh]

Sometimes when you stick your foot in your mouth you need to taste it so may be the next time you'll think twice.

I'll warn you now Day1 I'm a slow learner :joyman:

[OldschoolFreak]

One thing I was wrong about looking back had to do with drafting the Phonz. Unlike a bunch of other people, I wasn't upset with the pick or even the trade per se. But at the time I felt it was arrogant of McD to allow Seattle to have the Broncos 1st rather than the lower of the two, or even the Bears pick outright. But in retrospect, I think this was actually a really important decision.

Though it might have seemed like a gamble from an outsider's perspective b/c the Broncs were projected to do poorly and Chicago well, sending the Broncos pick sent a REALLY important message to the team that the coach had confidence in them.

And I'm not talking confidence as in media hype but actual, lay it out on the line trust in his players. Subtle but very important. And in retrospect, a great move.

[Day1BroncoFan]

I'll warn you now Day1 I'm a slow learner :joyman:

I have that tendency too. :D

[topscribe]

Sometimes when you stick your foot in your mouth you need to taste it so may be the next time you'll think twice.

I'm sure since it means the Broncos are winning, the crow actually tastes pretty good to Hotrod . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

[Day1BroncoFan]

I'm sure since it means the Broncos are winning, the crow actually tastes pretty good to Hotrod . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

Sweet crow... a new kind of taste.

[Lonestar]

Wanted to add about our CB we took. Anyone has to realize if he is a starter down the road he was worth the swap of choices. Any time you get a starter on day one it is worth the CHANCE. Does he have to be a pro bowler. NOPE would be nice but a competent CB will be nice in our D. Anyone expecting a starter at CB in their rookie year is smoking the good stuff. Especially trying to beat out the VETS we have.


Sent via Blackberry by altell.

[Dortoh]

I guess I have to stop calling him our Mini nickel corner now.

[weazel]

I called McDaniels a saboteur when he came in and started getting rid of certain players and causing problems with Cutler and Marshall, BUT... I also stated that I would wait until they at least took the field and played a game before passing judgement on the coaching and the team.

I am the SMRTEST! S-M-R-T!!!!

[D1g1tal j1m]

This thread was fun to read. I avoided most of these threads in the preseason because of the venom that was being spewed out of them. Now that I am reading them for the first time, it is interesting to see how the MSM's opinions affected the perception of some fans. The lessons that can be learned from reading these threads is that it is sometimes best to keep your opinions to yourself and that you shouldn't believe everything you read from the so called "experts".

[Dortoh]

This thread was fun to read. I avoided most of these threads in the preseason because of the venom that was being spewed out of them. Now that I am reading them for the first time, it is interesting to see how the MSM's opinions affected the perception of some fans. The lessons that can be learned from reading these threads is that it is sometimes best to keep your opinions to yourself and that you shouldn't believe everything you read from the so called "experts".

Boring ;)