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Denver Native (Carol)
11-12-2013, 11:56 AM
No.

Interim head coach Jack Del Rio deigned to give the question just one word. His brevity was part perfunctory, part confidence, but Broncos fans have a right to wonder.

Has Peyton Manning's nagging right ankle injury changed the way he's played since he took that big hit in Indianapolis? Will it change his approach going forward?

No. Moving on.

Problem is, it's hard to move on, even from the vaguest reference of an injury to this quarterback. He's the fraying tape that holds his 8-1 team together, and the notion that he might be anything approaching fallible is enough to put the state of Colorado on alert.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24503150/broncos-say-peyton-mannings-injury-hasnt-changed-way

Northman
11-12-2013, 12:14 PM
I dont think its changed the way he's played but im wondering why he didnt throw it out of bounds when being pursued before the fumble. He clearly felt the pressure but he is no John Elway so he should of just gotten rid of the ball instead of taking a risk like that. Maybe if he was 100% healthy he could of made a play but on bad wheels i question what he was thinking there.

silkamilkamonico
11-12-2013, 12:15 PM
Well, I for one am not worried about the injury itself, but the fact that it will limit the way he moves around the pocket behind a line that is steadily beginning to fall apart.

We went from having the best line in the league, to Manning getting some pressure, to Manning getting hit a couple times, to Manning getting sacked a couple times with some big hits, to Manning bruises ankle, to Manning having to throw the ball earlier than he wants and then getting hit, to now Manning having an MRI on his knee.

Really not a good trend.

BigDaddyBronco
11-12-2013, 12:30 PM
Yea, I want to see a steady diet of chip blocks by Moreno on the outside spead rushers in Tamba Hali and Houston. That should slow em down a bit.

Where I'm really concerned is the pass rush up the middle. If you have Franklin blocking Houston, Jackson getting blocked by Vasquez, and Poe getting blocked by Manny, then Beadles has DeVito and Clark has Tamba Hali. That leaves either a TE in helping to block and Moreno chip blocking Hali, or the other way around. There will be some match up problems for KC if Peyton has time to throw, but the talent of KC's pass rush makes it a challenge for our OLine.

The good thing is that Manning will get rid of the ball quickly and that they will not be able to fool him, the bad thing is that he will have trouble getting out of the way, and any rush up the middle could be potentially catastrophic.

If they block well, we will win this game.

Lancane
11-12-2013, 02:30 PM
Well, I for one am not worried about the injury itself, but the fact that it will limit the way he moves around the pocket behind a line that is steadily beginning to fall apart.

We went from having the best line in the league, to Manning getting some pressure, to Manning getting hit a couple times, to Manning getting sacked a couple times with some big hits, to Manning bruises ankle, to Manning having to throw the ball earlier than he wants and then getting hit, to now Manning having an MRI on his knee.

Really not a good trend.

Could not have said it any better!

Slick
11-12-2013, 03:46 PM
I might get flamed for this but I think Peyton needs to do a better job of throwing it away. A few of his sack/fumbles are on him. He knows that Clark is not Clady. He can't try to tuck it and sprint right to gain more time.

Ziggy
11-12-2013, 04:13 PM
I'd like to see the Broncos offense adjust to help Manning out. How about some 3 TE sets? How about the backs chip blocking on the way out? I'd love to see Dreesen start this game with JT coming in on passing downs as the 2nd or 3rd TE. The Chiefs may be overrated as a team, but their defense is legit... especially their pass rush. Good coordinators adjust to cover up weaknesses. Let's see what Gase can do when the status quo needs to be changed.

Joel
11-12-2013, 07:57 PM
I dont think its changed the way he's played but im wondering why he didnt throw it out of bounds when being pursued before the fumble. He clearly felt the pressure but he is no John Elway so he should of just gotten rid of the ball instead of taking a risk like that. Maybe if he was 100% healthy he could of made a play but on bad wheels i question what he was thinking there.
It wasn't at all clear to me he felt the pressure; it looked more like he was tracking a receiver than rolling out, as such. And it's not like he'd held the ball so long his mental alarm clock went off yesterday; dude was by Clark so fast there's no way Manning could've known he was RIGHT behind him without a rear view mirror. All things considered, maybe we should install one on his helmet the rest of the year; they do have glasses and such with mirrored edges so you can see behind you. I don't really want my starting QB to throw the ball away after 2-3 seconds; that blindside strip-sack is 100% on Clark. Just like Mathis'.


No, this is not something the Broncos want to talk about. No, no, no.
That sums it up, and the tone of the article was dead on, IMHO. Headline we won't see: "Week before seasons biggest game, Broncos tell unbeaten division rival PFMs throws off target, wobbly and weak since he can't step into passes and never knows if protection will collapse at the snap." After all, it's too long. :tongue:

Personally, I think the latter has more to do with the sudden absence and inaccuracy of deep throws: It's as much about RUSHED throws against real or expected pressure as it is injuries themselves.

Joel
11-12-2013, 08:21 PM
I'd like to see the Broncos offense adjust to help Manning out. How about some 3 TE sets? How about the backs chip blocking on the way out? I'd love to see Dreesen start this game with JT coming in on passing downs as the 2nd or 3rd TE. The Chiefs may be overrated as a team, but their defense is legit... especially their pass rush. Good coordinators adjust to cover up weaknesses. Let's see what Gase can do when the status quo needs to be changed.
I still like starting Dreesen on the left to help, rotating with Green or Tamme (I don't know enough about Tammes blocking to say if he's a viable backup, but Green seems okay,) and rotating JT with Welker on the other, so JT bowls over anyone who can cover Welker and Welker blows by anyone who can tackle JT. It can't be as simply as rotating in the TE who can't catch on running or max protect plays and the TE who can't block on spread receiver plays; that's WAY too obvious and good good defenses like KCs and coaches like Reid will eat that alive. We need to start REAL TEs, not rotate fast tackles with big receivers. When Dreesen's in it's impossible to know if he'll block for Moreno, go out for a pass or block for PFM: That's the idea.

Peyton's smart and experienced enough to know that, too, but I'm not sure if he goes beyond calling the plays to assigning personnel and directing practices.

I DO think—hope—our coaches smart enough to know we're not facing the 31st ranked 'Skins D that forced 4 turnovers, nor even the 10th ranked Colts D that did, and must plan accordingly. Hali's got 9 sacks so far, and no more 2.5 in any one game; he's doing it consistently. Houston's got 11, though 7.5 were against Philly and Jax. Derrick Johnson's got 3.5 coming off his second straight Pro Bowl. Dontari Poe, despite playing a cloggers position at NT, has 4.5 of his own. Only 10 TEAMS have managed more than the 28 sacks those four PLAYERS have. Clark needs help, and Ramirez and Beadles likely will, too: A TE plus Moreno.

Really, I think DT, Welker, Decker and either Moreno OR a TE will be more than enough to overwhelm Flowers, Berry and Lewis, even with Dunta Robinson and/or Demps coming in for nickel/dime. Frankly, I'd prefer they played nickel and dime; that would mean less LBers charging our QB; I think even our line can handle a five man rush most of the time, especially with a TE/Moreno helping.

Captain Speardog
11-13-2013, 02:07 AM
I might get flamed for this but I think Peyton needs to do a better job of throwing it away. A few of his sack/fumbles are on him. He knows that Clark is not Clady. He can't try to tuck it and sprint right to gain more time.

Manning is tied for being sacked the fewest times in the NFL. I think he does a fine job of throwing it and getting the ball completed.

Manning will expose the Chiefs as the frauds they are.

Northman
11-13-2013, 05:22 AM
It wasn't at all clear to me he felt the pressure;

It was quite clear to me, especially when he was taking quick looks behind him as he ran. While you dont want your QB to throw it away after 2-3 seconds sometimes you just HAVE to do it. As they say, live to play another down and i would rather have him throw it away than fumble it and change momentum of the game....err wait, that happened. Peyton isnt perfect and that is an area he needs to improve upon. Especially if he is on bad wheels.

artie_dale
11-13-2013, 08:05 AM
If Peyton is keeping the ball for up to 3, 4, or even 5 seconds, I can understand some of the heartache we fans may have for him not throwing it away. While some plays do call for that kind of time (3-4 seconds) most of the plays, Peyton is getting rid of the ball within 1.4 to 2.5 seconds. MOST of the time.

What I think the team should do against KC this Sunday is run the ball effectively. KC is ranked 24th against the run according to NFL.com (Den is ranked 4th, but that can also be due to the fast/high scoring production that makes opponents one dimensional).

4 Den 227 atts for 783 yds

24 KC 214 atts for 1067 yds


If its the pass rush we are worried about (and rightfully so), then we should make their pass rush worry about our run game and as long as we don't turn the ball over on the ground, our run game should setup our pass. I'm confident enough in our defense to shut down the KC offense. The only reason they beat Buffalo is because Buffalo's 3rd or 4th string rookie QB (was he undrafted?) threw a 100 yd pick six and Hali got a freebee 11 yd fumble returned. If it was left up to the offenses, KC would have lost 9 to 13. Buffalo also put up 241 rushing yrds on 38 attempts averaging 6.3 yds per carry.

As dangerous as KC's pass defense is, it looks like we should be able to offset it with a strong rushing attack with a side of Welker in the slot and D. Thomas in the screen. I think this is a game where C.J. Anderson can really be effective with his quick bursts. Knowshon blocks great and runs really hard, but I think the type of runner C.J. is, he'd be who I would consider early on.


I'm as worried about Peyton's legs as anyone else but I think this approach makes sense.

Joel
11-13-2013, 01:02 PM
Manning is tied for being sacked the fewest times in the NFL. I think he does a fine job of throwing it and getting the ball completed.

Manning will expose the Chiefs as the frauds they are.
Our season sack totals are low because NO ONE got through before we lost Clady, same reason Manning didn't have ANY picks the whole first month of the season and Moreno was averaging >5 yds per carry. Things have changed since then, to the tune of a dozen Manning turnovers and Morenos rushing average dropping a full yard.


If Peyton is keeping the ball for up to 3, 4, or even 5 seconds, I can understand some of the heartache we fans may have for him not throwing it away. While some plays do call for that kind of time (3-4 seconds) most of the plays, Peyton is getting rid of the ball within 1.4 to 2.5 seconds. MOST of the time.

What I think the team should do against KC this Sunday is run the ball effectively. KC is ranked 24th against the run according to NFL.com (Den is ranked 4th, but that can also be due to the fast/high scoring production that makes opponents one dimensional).

4 Den 227 atts for 783 yds

24 KC 214 atts for 1067 yds

If its the pass rush we are worried about (and rightfully so), then we should make their pass rush worry about our run game and as long as we don't turn the ball over on the ground, our run game should setup our pass. I'm confident enough in our defense to shut down the KC offense. The only reason they beat Buffalo is because Buffalo's 3rd or 4th string rookie QB (was he undrafted?) threw a 100 yd pick six and Hali got a freebee 11 yd fumble returned. If it was left up to the offenses, KC would have lost 9 to 13. Buffalo also put up 241 rushing yrds on 38 attempts averaging 6.3 yds per carry.

As dangerous as KC's pass defense is, it looks like we should be able to offset it with a strong rushing attack with a side of Welker in the slot and D. Thomas in the screen. I think this is a game where C.J. Anderson can really be effective with his quick bursts. Knowshon blocks great and runs really hard, but I think the type of runner C.J. is, he'd be who I would consider early on.

I'm as worried about Peyton's legs as anyone else but I think this approach makes sense.
I like this plan a lot, but it has the same problem: Blocking. Even with the early blowouts our rushing total's ranked 20th. I don't fear KCs weak offense, since its only strength is running and we have a good run D, but if we blocked well enough to run on them we might be able to protect Manning well enough we wouldn't have to run so much. Admittedly, run blocking isn't the same as pass blocking, but right now we struggle with both, making it hard for anyone but Colquitt to have a good day. Another argument for lots of TEs; the better we run, the safer PFM is, but if we can't run it looks like our last first down against SD.

Thus it's definitely wise to run as much as possible, but we'll need extra blocking from one or more TEs, ideally guys like Dreesen who can also catch, so they don't automatically signal "run" everytime they come on the field. The trouble with KCs "Back to the Future" style is the D must be SOLID across the board; it doesn't matter how good the pass rush or secondary is if opponents never need to pass, and it doesn't matter how good the run D is if opponents can drop a TD bomb everytime they're in 3rd and long. In an age when the NFL handicaps D, it's even harder.

So KCs weak run D gives us an opportunity to beat their old school style with an old school approach: Run to establish the pass, force them to bring their safety up, then burn their undermanned secondary.

It will only work if we can BLOCK though; whether in the running OR passing game that has to be our top priority next week, not least because it's the only way PFM will finish the game, let alone season.

artie_dale
11-13-2013, 05:06 PM
So KCs weak run D gives us an opportunity to beat their old school style with an old school approach: Run to establish the pass, force them to bring their safety up, then burn their undermanned secondary.

Absolutely!

Captain Speardog
11-14-2013, 12:49 AM
Our season sack totals are low because NO ONE got through before we lost Clady, same reason Manning didn't have ANY picks the whole first month of the season and Moreno was averaging >5 yds per carry. Things have changed since then, to the tune of a dozen Manning turnovers and Morenos rushing average dropping a full yard.



Clady has been gone since week 2 when he got injured. Clark has been the starting LT for Denver 7.5 out of 9 weeks. Now Clark has given up three sacks so that is an issue but when Peyton starts to roll out and is tackled from behind that is not Clark's fault.

Joel
11-14-2013, 12:59 AM
Clady has been gone since week 2 when he got injured. Clark has been the starting LT for Denver 7.5 out of 9 weeks. Now Clark has given up three sacks so that is an issue but when Peyton starts to roll out and is tackled from behind that is not Clark's fault.
C'mon, that dude blew by Clark like no one was there. Three strip-sacks in as many games=pattern. Clark's good against bull rushers (e.g. Ware, though he was coming off an injury that sidelined him again soon after) but evidently has trouble with speed rushers (e.g. Mathis on turf.) It's not like Manning held the ball forever, and, for those who think he looked back and saw the blitzer: Sure didn't look like it on the hit.

No one got to Manning before Cladys injury, and for a few weeks afterward, but playing Indys weak D without Clady OR Franklin was nightmarish, and we're still paying the price.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-14-2013, 11:07 AM
C'mon, that dude blew by Clark like no one was there. Three strip-sacks in as many games=pattern. Clark's good against bull rushers (e.g. Ware, though he was coming off an injury that sidelined him again soon after) but evidently has trouble with speed rushers (e.g. Mathis on turf.) It's not like Manning held the ball forever, and, for those who think he looked back and saw the blitzer: Sure didn't look like it on the hit.

No one got to Manning before Cladys injury, and for a few weeks afterward, but playing Indys weak D without Clady OR Franklin was nightmarish, and we're still paying the price.


In all fairness there's a reason Clady got the contract he did. There are only a few pass blockers as effective has he is.

Dzone
11-14-2013, 11:20 AM
Its going to be cold, maybe not as cold as the Baltimore playoff game, but a good test. Manning can shut some people up or if he plays poor, all we will hear is how Manning cant play below 40 degrees

MOtorboat
11-14-2013, 12:18 PM
C'mon, that dude blew by Clark like no one was there. Three strip-sacks in as many games=pattern. Clark's good against bull rushers (e.g. Ware, though he was coming off an injury that sidelined him again soon after) but evidently has trouble with speed rushers (e.g. Mathis on turf.) It's not like Manning held the ball forever, and, for those who think he looked back and saw the blitzer: Sure didn't look like it on the hit.

No one got to Manning before Cladys injury, and for a few weeks afterward, but playing Indys weak D without Clady OR Franklin was nightmarish, and we're still paying the price.

Clark had a problem with Mathis on ONE play. Let's try to keep that in perspective.

Dzone
11-14-2013, 02:25 PM
Will Manning be wearing a glove on Sunday night?

PeytonManning
11-14-2013, 07:26 PM
No.

Joel
11-15-2013, 07:21 AM
Clark had a problem with Mathis on ONE play. Let's try to keep that in perspective.
And Orakpo on another play, and some Bolt scrub who's name I forget on another. Three strip-sacks in as many games, resulting in 2 TDs and a safety (with a third TD on the ensuing drive.) Perspective, indeed.