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Denver Native (Carol)
11-09-2013, 01:27 PM
Von Miller missed six games because of a suspension and in came Shaun Phillips and his 76 career sacks.

John Fox has heart valve- replacement surgery. In steps Jack Del Rio and nine years of NFL head coaching experience.

The Broncos always have a pretty good Plan B.

If tight end Julius Thomas needs another week to recover from his sprained ankle, the Broncos have Joel Dreessen and Jacob Tamme, who combined for 93 catches last year.

There is a good chance strong safety Duke Ihenacho won't play Sunday at San Diego. Ready to fill in is Mike Adams, who started 17 games for the Broncos at strong safety last season.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24487514/denver-broncos-backup-plan-looks-good-so-far-7-1

Denver Native (Carol)
11-09-2013, 01:28 PM
from same article:


Fine line. Fox apparently coaches a strict team. He was "fined" by the Broncos' leadership council for missing their weekly meeting Wednesday. He had heart surgery Monday in Charlotte, N.C.

Fox plans to "appeal" the penalty.

"Most definitely," the coach said by text Friday.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24487514/denver-broncos-backup-plan-looks-good-so-far-7-1

Ravage!!!
11-09-2013, 01:37 PM
any news on if Julius is playing or not?

BroncoWave
11-09-2013, 01:47 PM
Last I heard on Twitter it looks like he will be a game-time decision.

Joel
11-09-2013, 01:48 PM
any news on if Julius is playing or not?
I wish Orange Julius excellent health, but still prefer Dreesen, who's a fine receiver and MUCH better blocker. If we didn't have a backup tackle starting on the left and no "Plan B" but moving our best guard to tackle if Franklin's hurt again I might feel differently, but as it stands our line's VERY thin, and it's run blocking is weak on the left. If wide receivers can't get a starting spot without decent run blocking, it makes no sense to say a tight end can.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-09-2013, 01:56 PM
any news on if Julius is playing or not?

According to the following, he had a full practice Friday and listed as probable

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Final-HealthONE-Injury-Report/53aa582e-563f-4dbf-886d-849b663d032a

BroncoWave
11-09-2013, 02:02 PM
Julius is an interesting player. He is just too good in the passing game not to ever put on the field, but he is too big of a liability in the blocking game to keep him out there every play. That can be a really bad thing in that him being on the field could kinda telegraph that we are passing on that play whereas when he is off the field the D knows there is a good chance we are running. It will be interesting to see how the coaches handle him for the rest of the season.

Army Bronco
11-09-2013, 02:58 PM
Julius is an interesting player. He is just too good in the passing game not to ever put on the field, but he is too big of a liability in the blocking game to keep him out there every play. That can be a really bad thing in that him being on the field could kinda telegraph that we are passing on that play whereas when he is off the field the D knows there is a good chance we are running. It will be interesting to see how the coaches handle him for the rest of the season. So true. Makes it a logical choice to start Dreesen unless Julius improves his blocking.

Ziggy
11-09-2013, 03:44 PM
I wish Orange Julius excellent health, but still prefer Dreesen, who's a fine receiver and MUCH better blocker. If we didn't have a backup tackle starting on the left and no "Plan B" but moving our best guard to tackle if Franklin's hurt again I might feel differently, but as it stands our line's VERY thin, and it's run blocking is weak on the left. If wide receivers can't get a starting spot without decent run blocking, it makes no sense to say a tight end can.

I prefer Dreesen as well. It seemed like the turning point against Washington was when Julius went out and Dreesen came in. The Broncos began to run the ball better, protect Manning better, and get in synch overall as an offense. I love JT in the passing game, as long as he's not counted on to block. Priority #1 is should always be to protect Manning. Dreesen is an outstanding blocker and helps make up for Clady's loss. I wouldn't be upset at all to see the Broncos make Thomas the #2 TE, coming in on passing downs only.

Joel
11-09-2013, 04:17 PM
Julius is an interesting player. He is just too good in the passing game not to ever put on the field, but he is too big of a liability in the blocking game to keep him out there every play. That can be a really bad thing in that him being on the field could kinda telegraph that we are passing on that play whereas when he is off the field the D knows there is a good chance we are running. It will be interesting to see how the coaches handle him for the rest of the season.
That's one of my main concerns with him and Green (who seems to be at the opposite extreme: Good blocker, poor receiver.) It's the same problem with having a great runner who can't catch or pick up the blitz and one who pass blocks and catches but can't move the pile in short yardage: Defenses know that, too, and can call plays based on which one is on the field; suddenly they don't have to guess on 3rd and 3.

If it were up to me (which it's obviously not,) I'd start Dreesen backed by Tamme and rotate Green or Thomas in 2 TE sets. As a SECOND TE neither would give defenses the opportunity to play pass against Orange Julius and get gashed for a 12 yd run, or play run against Green and get burned with a TD bomb. Plus we'd have a legit extra receiver AND blocker all the time in Dreesen/Tamme (I'm not sure Tamme's on par with Dreesen as a blocker, but he's a better blocker than Orange Julius and a better receiver than Green; in other words, a TE, not just an extra tackle or receiver.)


I prefer Dreesen as well. It seemed like the turning point against Washington was when Julius went out and Dreesen came in. The Broncos began to run the ball better, protect Manning better, and get in synch overall as an offense. I love JT in the passing game, as long as he's not counted on to block. Priority #1 is should always be to protect Manning. Dreesen is an outstanding blocker and helps make up for Clady's loss. I wouldn't be upset at all to see the Broncos make Thomas the #2 TE, coming in on passing downs only.
Agreed. Our 17th ranked running offense needs the help, especially when Moreno's taking a breather, and we can't afford to let Manning get hit much (whether it was poor protection then or TWO sprained ankles from poor protection in previous weeks, fact remains PFMs had 4 turnovers in EACH of our last two games, and our mediocre running game makes that a recipe for disaster.) As a second TE, Thomas can be a useful decoy in the running game and Green can add some protection in the passing game, but as primary TE Dreesen is the best bet as a guy who can start without sacrificing receiving OR blocking.

Simple Jaded
11-10-2013, 10:04 PM
3 catches for 96 yards and a TD, I think the Broncos should start Julius Thomas.

Broncolingus
11-10-2013, 10:10 PM
...the pass protection has deteriorated the past three games...

...coaches will, obviously, need to get things turned back around this week for the second half of the season and playoff run.

I also agree with those that our inability to pound the ball when having a big lead hurts too...

...not sure this offense is really built for that though.

Joel
11-10-2013, 11:36 PM
3 catches for 96 yards and a TD, I think the Broncos should start Julius Thomas.
Our QB limped off the field at the end of the game: A tight end is not (or shouldn't be) just a musclebound wide receiver. If that's all we want, screw Julius Thomas: We should draft another DEMARYIUS Thomas. They're SUPPOSED to be different players. All that said, Orange Julius did have a nice downfield block on one run (I think by Moreno, but don't qoute me.) As a blocking receiver, I still prefer Dreesen; Orange Julius isn't such a great receiver that I think we can win playoff games with Osweiler passing to him, and Dreesen IS a good enough receiver I don't think we lose much with him.

Joel
11-10-2013, 11:38 PM
...the pass protection has deteriorated the past three games...

...coaches will, obviously, need to get things turned back around this week for the second half of the season and playoff run.

I also agree with those that our inability to pound the ball when having a big lead hurts too...

...not sure this offense is really built for that though.
I can't salute this any further, so will just QFT. :salute:

Ravage!!!
11-11-2013, 03:17 AM
Our QB limped off the field at the end of the game: A tight end is not (or shouldn't be) just a musclebound wide receiver. If that's all we want, screw Julius Thomas: We should draft another DEMARYIUS Thomas. They're SUPPOSED to be different players. All that said, Orange Julius did have a nice downfield block on one run (I think by Moreno, but don't qoute me.) As a blocking receiver, I still prefer Dreesen; Orange Julius isn't such a great receiver that I think we can win playoff games with Osweiler passing to him, and Dreesen IS a good enough receiver I don't think we lose much with him.

Dreesen isn't NEAR the receiving threat that Julius, and its not even close. Dreesen is "capable" of catching a ball, but isn't capable of causing defensive problems. The PRESENCE of Thomas on the field forces teams to put an extra DB on the field, OR, a lighter LB to try and cover him. Not only does it open up the passing game for Welker and the WRs by forcing teams to keep him covered and watched, it helps our running game becasue they can't stack in close because of the speed of Thomas, and/or have to have lighter defenders on the field to begin with.

There is a HUGE drop off in talent from Thomas to Dreesen. I think there are times when Dreesen should/will be put into the lineup because of the extra protection he can provide, but then lets just put him in the place of Moreno in sure passing downs. But then, that takes the speed out again from Moreno (compared to Dreesen, anyway).

Joel
11-11-2013, 11:56 PM
Dreesen isn't NEAR the receiving threat that Julius, and its not even close. Dreesen is "capable" of catching a ball, but isn't capable of causing defensive problems. The PRESENCE of Thomas on the field forces teams to put an extra DB on the field, OR, a lighter LB to try and cover him. Not only does it open up the passing game for Welker and the WRs by forcing teams to keep him covered and watched, it helps our running game becasue they can't stack in close because of the speed of Thomas, and/or have to have lighter defenders on the field to begin with.
Dreesen's been more than merely "capable" of catching throughout his career; he's a reliable and steady receiver who just also happens to be a fine blocker. The NFL used to have a word for that.... ;)

Teams aren't obligated to shuffle personnel to compete with Thomas' mismatch (and todays lighter LBs who are more like closeted safeties can often do that job.) They also have the option of just blitzing the crap out of Manning, secure in the knowledge Thomas can't do much more than briefly get in their way (if that.) Unsurprisingly, that's the much easier and more effective route most are taking. Wouldn't work as well against Dreesen, because he can stay home and pick up the blitz, and his presence on the field doesn't signal "pass" because he blocks well enough to provide more options, but you're right: Thomas ISN'T Dreesen.


There is a HUGE drop off in talent from Thomas to Dreesen. I think there are times when Dreesen should/will be put into the lineup because of the extra protection he can provide, but then lets just put him in the place of Moreno in sure passing downs. But then, that takes the speed out again from Moreno (compared to Dreesen, anyway).
If Orange Julius were HALF the blocker Moreno is we wouldn't be having this discussion; that's not an apples to apples comparison. If our starting "TE" is just another slot WR, rotate him with Welker and make Dreesen the starting TE helping Clark on the other side (heaven knows the dude needs it.) If we want to talk "mismatch," the guys who can keep up with Welker can't tackle Thomas, and the guys who can tackle Thomas can't keep up with Welker. On 3rd and 17, I like Jay Novacek as much as anyone, but the running AND passing game needs a few Larry Allens and Nate Newtons to do that, and Clady's gone for the year.

If the argument's Julius Thomas is an electric, dominant WR, well, I like him a lot better than Caldwell (our WR depth drops off fast after the starters.) But if he's a TE he needs to at least get in peoples way blocking.

MOtorboat
11-12-2013, 12:00 AM
Dreesen's been more than merely "capable" of catching throughout his career; he's a reliable and steady receiver who just also happens to be a fine blocker. The NFL used to have a word for that.... ;)

Teams aren't obligated to shuffle personnel to compete with Thomas' mismatch (and todays lighter LBs who are more like closeted safeties can often do that job.) They also have the option of just blitzing the crap out of Manning, secure in the knowledge Thomas can't do much more than briefly get in their way (if that.) Unsurprisingly, that's the much easier and more effective route most are taking. Wouldn't work as well against Dreesen, because he can stay home and pick up the blitz, and his presence on the field doesn't signal "pass" because he blocks well enough to provide more options, but you're right: Thomas ISN'T Dreesen.


If Orange Julius were HALF the blocker Moreno is we wouldn't be having this discussion; that's not an apples to apples comparison. If our starting "TE" is just another slot WR, rotate him with Welker and make Dreesen the starting TE helping Clark on the other side (heaven knows the dude needs it.) If we want to talk "mismatch," the guys who can keep up with Welker can't tackle Thomas, and the guys who can tackle Thomas can't keep up with Welker. On 3rd and 17, I like Jay Novacek as much as anyone, but the running AND passing game needs a few Larry Allens and Nate Newtons to do that, and Clady's gone for the year.

Guy goes for a 74 yard touchdown run, is statistically the second best tight end in the game and is tied for second in the league in receiving touchdowns and you're STILL bitching that he's playing over Dreesen?

FFS.

Joel
11-12-2013, 12:08 AM
Guy goes for a 74 yard touchdown run, is statistically the second best tight end in the game and is tied for second in the league in receiving touchdowns and you're STILL bitching that he's playing over Dreesen?

FFS.
Statistically the second best TE by what metric? Receptions? That's the sole measure of TEs now? They're interchangeable with WRs? Our QB went to the ground THREE TIMES on ONE PLAY at the end of Sundays game, in no small part because we more often than not got stuffed when we tried to kill the clock running for first downs; yeah, I'm still bitching that our starting TE doesn't block. This isn't fantasy football: It actually MATTERS if our QB finishes the season.

MOtorboat
11-12-2013, 12:16 AM
Statistically the second best TE by what metric? Receptions? That's the sole measure of TEs now? They're interchangeable with WRs? Our QB went to the ground THREE TIMES on ONE PLAY at the end of Sundays game, in no small part because we more often than not got stuffed when we tried to kill the clock running for first downs; yeah, I'm still bitching that our starting TE doesn't block. This isn't fantasy football: It actually MATTERS if our QB finishes the season.

Can you imagine if Shanahan benched Shannon Sharpe for Jerry Evans?

Joel
11-12-2013, 01:30 AM
Can you imagine if Shanahan benched Shannon Sharpe for Jerry Evans?
I can't imagine Sharpe letting a defender push him into Elway and force an interception that cost us a game.

Northman
11-12-2013, 05:31 AM
Dreesen isn't NEAR the receiving threat that Julius, and its not even close. Dreesen is "capable" of catching a ball, but isn't capable of causing defensive problems. The PRESENCE of Thomas on the field forces teams to put an extra DB on the field, OR, a lighter LB to try and cover him. Not only does it open up the passing game for Welker and the WRs by forcing teams to keep him covered and watched, it helps our running game becasue they can't stack in close because of the speed of Thomas, and/or have to have lighter defenders on the field to begin with.

There is a HUGE drop off in talent from Thomas to Dreesen. I think there are times when Dreesen should/will be put into the lineup because of the extra protection he can provide, but then lets just put him in the place of Moreno in sure passing downs. But then, that takes the speed out again from Moreno (compared to Dreesen, anyway).


Yea, i like Dressen but i think Joel is putting WAY too much stock into the guy. There is a reason why JT is starting over Tamme and Dreesen, the dude is a hell of a receiving threat and clearly far superior to the other two in the regard. I think it says a lot that a guy who didnt even play the position in college has earned the starting job over the other guys. Both Dreesen and Tamme have their own positives but if we are talking overall talent its just not in the same hemisphere. There is no way Dreesen makes that same play on Sunday (long TD run) that JT does.

Joel
11-12-2013, 11:10 AM
Yea, i like Dressen but i think Joel is putting WAY too much stock into the guy. There is a reason why JT is starting over Tamme and Dreesen, the dude is a hell of a receiving threat and clearly far superior to the other two in the regard. I think it says a lot that a guy who didnt even play the position in college has earned the starting job over the other guys. Both Dreesen and Tamme have their own positives but if we are talking overall talent its just not in the same hemisphere. There is no way Dreesen makes that same play on Sunday (long TD run) that JT does.
There's no way Dreesen lets a Colt push him into Manning and then grab his arm so the ball pops up in the air and another Colt catches it to give them 3 more pts and ice their win.

I'm not saying Dreesen's as good a receiver as Thomas; he's not: I'm saying he IS still a very good receiver, which, combined with his FAR better blocking, our sagging run game and the pounding our QB's taking, justifies starting a true standout TE rather than a big WR. When Manning's not getting stripped from behind for TDs in multiple games, or MRIs the next day, then maybe we can put the pure receiver out there as a "TE" like we did when Clady was on the left side. Until/unless that happens it's not worth putting the whole season on the line solely because Orange Julius is a phenomenal receiver rather than "just" very good.

Lemme put it another way: Raise your hand if you'd prefer Osweiler throwing to Thomas over Manning throwing to Dreesen. If we could've RUN for our last first down yesterday we wouldn't have all gone to bed wondering if our franchise QB will play in the biggest game of the year; that's something to think about both now and when we get to the playoffs and can't take ANY games off. But, hey, I understand; if Orange Julius hadn't gotten that long TD pass in the first half we would've—beaten SD by 1 pt instead of 8. Personally, I'd take that in exchange for beating Indy and PFM being able to wiggle his toes, but that's just me.

MOtorboat
11-12-2013, 11:14 AM
I'd prefer Manning throwing to Thomas.

Thanks for asking.

:rolleyes:

Joel
11-12-2013, 05:46 PM
I'd prefer Manning throwing to Thomas.

Thanks for asking.

:rolleyes:
Enjoy it while it lasts....